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Tsipras Faces Party Revolt In Bid To Push Debt Deal Through Parliament
On Monday evening in “Greece Capitulates: Tsipras Crosses ‘Red Line’ Will Accept Bailout Extension,” we outlined the political battle facing Alexis Tsipras in the wake of the Greek PM’s move to effectively strike a deal with creditors that includes higher taxes and restrictions on early retirements. The agreement, which some reports suggest came with an implicit assumption about the necessity of extending the country’s second bailout in order to bridge the gap between payments due to creditors over the coming weeks and final discussions around a third program, has not been received well by Syriza party hardliners.
To be sure, no agreement with creditors would have satisfied the more radical members of the party, many of whom believe the best option for Greece is to default and return to the drachma — these lawmakers contend redenomination would not be as economically catastrophic as the EU would have them believe. If Tsipras cannot rally enough support for the new proposal, a political shakeup may be necessary. Here’s Reuters with more:
Greek lawmakers reacted angrily on Tuesday to concessions Athens offered in debt talks and parliament's deputy speaker warned the proposals would struggle to win approval, puncturing optimism that a deal to lift Greece out of crisis might be quickly sealed..
"I believe that this program as we see it ... is difficult to pass by us," Deputy parliament speaker and Syriza lawmaker Alexis Mitropoulos told Greek Mega TV on a morning news show.
If parliament does fail to back the latest offer, which included higher taxes and welfare changes and steps to curtail early retirement, Tsipras might be forced to call a snap election or a referendum that would prolong the uncertainty.
"The prime minister first has to inform our people on why we failed in the negotiation and ended up with this result," Mitropoulos said. "I believe (the measures) are not in line with the principles of the left. This social carnage ... they cannot accept it”..
"If (the government) does not have the parliamentary majority, it cannot remain (in power)," government spokesman Gabriel Sakellaridis told Mega TV.
Ahead of emergency talks on Monday in Brussels, Tsipras had spent hours with his cabinet in an apparent attempt to secure their backing.
"The government has fallen into a trap, I don't know to what extent this can be implemented," Pavlos Haikalis, a deputy with Syriza's junior coalition partner, the Independent Greeks, told Antena TV.
And more from Bloomberg:
While the government’s plan still falls short of creditors’ demands, some Syriza lawmakers already described it as a capitulation.
Tsipras “has to explain to the people why we failed in a negotiation and arrived at this result,” deputy parliament speaker and Syriza lawmaker Alexios Mitropoulos said Tuesday in a televised interview on Mega. “After five months of negotiations, I consider that, at the very least, the negotiation didn’t succeed."
His remarks illustrate the kind of internal opposition Tsipras will have to overcome to secure backing for an agreement that runs against his party’s pledge to end austerity.
“Every lawmaker has a personal responsibility, to recognize and understand not just the urgency of the moment, but the urgency of the whole project,” Gabriel Sakellaridis, Tsipras’s spokesman, said in an interview with Mega TV. In a public relations blitz, Sakellaridis gave at least three television interviews in Athens Tuesday morning.
And once again, here’s Deutsche Bank to explain the process:
Subject to further progress this week, focus is likely to shift very quickly to the Greek domestic political front. Disbursements for Greece ahead of the IMF tranche due at the end of the month will require domestic parliamentary approval. It is likely that the Greek PM would first attempt to obtain approval from the SYRIZA party's 200-strong Central Committee before bringing an agreement to parliament. In the event of failure at the party level, a referendum would likely be called. In the event of party approval, a vote would be likely taken to the parliamentary floor. Depending on the process adopted, such a vote may take between 2 days to a week.
It will remain a major challenge for the Greek PM to successfully pass a potential agreement through parliament. Local press reports that 10-40 SYRIZA MPs are likely to dissent (the government has an 11 MP majority), while overnight the Independent Greeks junior coalition partner (12 MPs) has also raised the possibility of withdrawing from government. How the political process plays out largely depends on the number of MPs the current government loses. A loss of less than thirty parliamentarians may force a change in coalition to include the two small moderate parties in parliament (PASOK and the River) jointly controlling 30 MPs. More substantial losses requiring the support of major opposition party New Democracy would open up the possibility of broader changes to the government or a referendum.
Finally, here is Barclays' flowchart:
Again, we see that a government shakeup may be necessary to get the agreement through parliament and indeed, a reshuffling that serves to align Greece more closely with creditors will be welcomed in Brussels and would of course mean that the troika will have succeeded in using financial leverage to subvert the democratic process.
In the mean time, Tspiras must navigate between Scylla and Charybdis (to use a uniquely Greek metaphor). On the one hand, squandering Monday's progress with creditors would likely spell the end of the Greek banking sector as Mario Draghi would come under enormous pressure from Berlin to curtail emergency funding. On the other, pushing the new proposal through parliament will cost Tsipras politically, as hardliners will likely attempt to gather public support by claiming the PM has abandoned his electoral mandate. For Tsipras, the decision to fold to Brussels and the IMF (albeit with a set of proposals that don't entirely match what creditors were looking for) likely came down to this: remaining defiant and allowing Greece to return to the drachma would have made Tsipras a national hero for a time, but the acute economic hardships that Greeks would subsequently suffer would likely have led to his ouster at some point, so chancing a referendum or snap elections now in order to avert an imminent economic collapse is the lesser of two evils and likely gives the PM the best chance of retaining power over the long run.
In any event, Tsipras' new proposal was enough to appease the ECB, which once again lifted the ELA cap on Tuesday, ensuring that Greek banks could meet withdrawal requests for another day and in the process tacking another €1-2 billion onto Germany's TARGET2 credit. Meanwhile, analysts are looking past June and asking what happens next. Here's how UBS sees the situation playing out (via Bloomberg):
If there’s no agreement this week, Greece won’t be able to pay the IMF and in turn won’t receive cash due from the fund.
If there is an agreement, Greece will eventually need a third bailout; estimate potential size ~EU30b with partial restructuring of OSI debt.
Don’t think there’s appetite for another large number among creditors.
This amount would enable Greece to partly repay ECB, the most expensive debt they owe.
ECB could release SMP profits of around EU9b, enabling government to pay around half of outstanding IMF loans (also quite expensive) and reduce interest costs.
Taking out relatively cheap ESM loans would help debt sustainability. Any new deal should reduce multiple payment deadlines over next few years.
Can’t exclude IMF being repaid ahead of schedule and leaving Greece program early; not central case given the numbers involved. May agree something like in Ireland, where Greece is allowed to repay IMF earlier where possible.
Obviously the next several days will be critical, as Brussels will watch closely to see if, after finally extracting concessions from Tsipras, it will be one step forward on the road to transforming a revolutionary into a pandering technocrat and two steps back towards unruly leftist radicalism.
* * *
Here's more on the "deal" from KeepTalkingGreece:
Eurogroup meetings, Institutions meetings, Euro Leaders meetings. Monday’s race between Greece and the creditors ended … early Tuesday without a deal. But with a perspective for a deal. And a bombastic package of austerity measures worth 8 billion euro for 2015 and 2016.
The exhausted Euro Leaders exited the summit with statements one could hardly understand what was the real substance behind. Chancellor Merkel for example spoke of “new Greek proposals that were a good starting point for further discussions”, while she claimed that they did not know “if Greek debt sustainable” despite the 5 months of negotiations.
IMF’s Lagarde repeated the usual “A lot of work has still to be done.”
Others said that a deal has to be reached in the next 48 hours.
EC’ Juncker: “I’m convinced that we will find an agreement this week, for the simple reason that we have to find an agreement this week. It’s not the right moment to discuss debt relief.”
Germany’s Merkel also tried to sidestep the crucial issue of debt relief and told reporters after the summit: “We will now that the Greek debt is sustainable, we will know more on Wednesday night.” She stressed that “No further credits can be extended until the second bailout terms are complied with.”
France’s Hollande said also that “extension of bailout programe, debt restructuring will only come at a second stage.”
At the end of the Euro gibberish it was suggested that Greece’s creditors had found the additional proposals as a basis for a discussion that should continue with a Eurogroup meeting on Wednesday and another Euro Leaders Summit on Thursday. Target is an “austerity for cash” deal this week and thus before the June 30th when Greece is expected to pay €1.2 billion to the IMF. The two sides have still to agree on several issues and creditors expect to demand more “austerity measures” from Greece.
The creditors made it clear that the Greek government has to pass the deal through the Greek parliament first and then be allowed to receive the life-saving bailout money: 7.2 billion euro bailout tranche.
The Greek proposal leaked to the press on Monday literally shocked every Greek and especially the SYRIZA lawmakers and its junior coalition partner Independent Greeks.
Two SYRIZA MPs said that they will not vote for the austerity package respectively for the deal. Mitropoulos is well known for his “populist” and Michelogiannakis.. well.. he is known for having started a hunger strike in solidarity with Syrian refugees and in the breaks he went for a coffee.
“My personal view is that these measures cannot be voted, they are extreme and antisocial,” said Syriza MP and vice president of the Greek parliament, Alexis Mitropoulos.
“An agreement based on the Greek government’s proposals is a tombstone for Greece, and will not pass from Syriza [party bodies],” said Syriza MP Giannis Michelogiannakis.
Communist Tendency, a far-left faction within Syriza, issued a statement urging Syriza MPs to vote against the agreement. (via euractiv.com)
From the Independent Greeks front it has been said that the “Value Added Tax on the islands was a “red line and casus belli.” However this issue has not been fixed yet in Brussels.
Government spokesman Gavriil Sakellaridis said that if the deal will not receive the government majority votes then “only option is elections.”
However it is too early judge about the voting. Sakellaridis said that “the deal” has to be brought to the Parliament before the end of the week, so that lawmakers be informed.
A voting could take place on Sunday.
Some of the revenue increasing measures are “tough” and include V.A.T and tax hikes as well as reductions in net income for pensioners and employees.
Some SYRIZA MP like Nikos Filis said last night in an effort to justify the measures that “there are not pension cuts”. But increasing the health care contribution and the VAT in food will effectively leave thousands of low-pensioners with less money available.
Anyway, the VAT issue is been expected to be taken up at Wednesday’s Eurogroup.
Another issue at the focus of criticism in the media today is the increase of contributions in social security. Employers complain that the increase will put obstacles to hire personnel.
Meanwhile, the ECB increased the Emergency Liquidity Assistance to the Greek banks on Tuesday morning. On Monday M?rio Draghi reportedly told Alexis Tsipras during a face to face meeting that “the Greek banking system is safe with Greece in the program”. The program ends on June 30th 2015.
To conclude: There is no deal but an outline of a deal. Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras could hardly accept more austerity measures. After the Euro Summit, he told reporters: “We want a substantial and viable solution” and “The ball is in the court of the European leadership.”
What will happen if creditors demand more measures and Greece reject them? then the ball is indeed in Merkel’s court, as Tsipras has hinted before the Euro Summit.
Suprisingly NOT is that the negotiations do not take into acocunt real structural reforms to overhaul the notorious handicaps of the Greek operating system but instead they focus on pour revenue increasing measures.
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Ain't gonna happen Mister T.
FOOL!
Keep watch on Greek 10 yr bond yield for what's really going on:
http://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/greece-10-year-bond-yield-streaming...
Bund yield as well:
http://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/euro-bund-streaming-chart
Banksters bought off the PM. Every man has his price.
Throw those Greek deadbeats out of Europe already. -says Wolferl
Yes, for their sake!
Not just their's, man, not just their's ...
Greece reminds me of a bunch of sailors on a boat with broken sails & sharks swimming all around, with nowhere to turn or go, and quickly running out of supplies...
More other people's money.....we can do this to infinity.
Long way around the barn to arrive at the same "deal" that was in place months ago.
But just look how many times the market rallied on it. I'd like to see one of those ZH charts on how many points were added to the index every time the machines read another rescue headline.
Greeks elected RAND PAUL as prime minister and expected something different? wow....
Default already!!! Your just prolonging the pain. Debt that can not be repaid will not be repaid.
EU is in the rubber lifeboat.
The difference is...
On one side I can understand Tsipras; the exit would drastically influence the way the Greeks are heading now and they might feel not to be prepared for such a U-turn as a nation. Hence, Tsipras could do something that would most likely be perceived as an illegitimate act. Without stronger support from the public Greece has no chance to get over the hard times after the exit and succeed in the long run. The properly organized plebiscite listing all pros and cons would therefore be appropriate.
On the other hand, prolonging the agony of further can kicking makes no sense whatsoever. The Greek government relies on some miraculous change in EU apparatchiks' minds, but this will never happen unless Greece steps in and starts addressing its affairs on its own. Waiting for Godot won't bring anything new to Greece, that's a transparent EU tactics. Paradoxically, the situation can indeed change the EU attitudes in favor of Greece but not before unilateral resolute actions on the Greek side first. The Greek society has a great opportunity to finally stand up and start conducting its own country. After all, that's what we'd naturally expect from a self-reliant adult nation and the way how to regain the lost dignity the Greeks so often cry out for.
what is yours ?
“Every lawmaker has a personal responsibility, to recognize and understand not just the urgency of the moment, but the urgency of the whole project,”
There is this it again "the whole project" e.g., Greece is about to get fucked, hard again, for the good of the project.
When is it time for the project to get fucked and hard, or has Greece also drunk the "Europäische Einheit über Alles" bullshit?
If Tsipras is going to cave to keep "the project" intact, then he needs a new mandate from his people, else he is just a worthless sack of flesh and bones, and is essentially a walking version of Schäuble.
Hey, "flesh and bones" still makes good fertilizer, not exactly "worthless"...
I suggested yesterday the Greeks try a new approach and give him the Mussolini treatment.
Just another bankster turncoat running their gov't.
Or, if you're by the sea, they make for excellent Chum for Crabbing.
spine or no spine. tic toc...
Notice how they dubbed the 'new' program "Austerity for Cash"? Sounds much better than the originally proposed "Blood for Cash" and the author gets bonus points for the doubleplusgood doublespeak.
i would gladly trade austerity for cash. just the minimalist speaking. where is my free cash i will never be able to pay back, oh that's right i got to suck a goldman dick first- no thanks, ha...
Haus- No way anybody can have a mandate from his "people". When your people are the FSA, as most of the western world is now, there can be no talk of a sacrifice. Not even for a longer term gain.
Here is the thing --
If the Syriza government collapses, the Independent Greeks will likely also fall out, meaning Syriza will likely lose his majority within his own party as well ... e.g., a Syriza split.
That would make New Democracy the largest party, with a de-facto ND government, which is pro austerity. However they wouldn't have the size to create a government all their own.
They'd have to coalition again -- but with who? The anti-EUR group gets larger and larger.
The only group I could see is a moderate Syriza (e.g., PASOK) with old PASOK and ND.
On the other side, you'd have Golden Dawn, new Syriza, KKE and the Independent Greeks -- anti-EUR.
If the top group of parties cannot get more than 50% -- you'll have a hung parliment and #2 (e.g., Golden Dawn) will get the opportunity to get a government together.
Impossible to predict how things would turn out if Syriza collapses. The deck would likely get reshuffled in ways we couldn't predict from where we are sitting today. Almost certainly things would get "worse", however you care to define that. And "worse" plays right into the banker's hands. Division and strife keep them in their position of power. You saw how long it took them to rein in Syriza which came to power with a "mandate". An impossible one (because it would have required sacrifice), but one where they clearly, for a while, had some political capital to use. The bankers freaked out, went full Machiavelli on them and now, at this late date, have finally pulled them back in line. Bankers would be in an even better position to dictate terms if they were facing some weak, cobbled-together coalition government.
"Hey, we are the coalition called 'We're gonna leave the EUR tomorrow, formally default on all our debt, get a Greek court decision permanently invalidating all debt, and then call new elections coalition'"
Exactly. Who wouldn't vote for that?
I don't think you understand how the coalition system works.
Each party has its own platform, on which it runs and garners votes. I am no longer curious about Greek political position aside from the pro EUR anti EUR positions.
If Syriza collapses then ND is the next largest Greek party, which is pro EUR. Because it is largest it gets an extra 50 seats in the parliment per Greek law, and if it can get 150 seats in the parliment it has an absolute majority, and if it doesn't it can coalition with other parties to get their coalition. The number of pro-EUR parties with which ND could coalition is getting ever smaller.
Thus, if ND cannot form a government, then #2 gets the option of creating a government. At this point, if the anti-EUR parties can get together for a period of 3-4 weeks to pull off all the legal stuff to exit, then after Greece exits one of the junior coalition partners calls a vote of no confidence, where they vote for no-confidence, and then a new government can be elected with no EUR baggage to deal with.
Exactly right, Greece is about to cross the event horizon no matter what party is in power they simply can't afford to continue to service bond holders over the needs of the people or you end up with full blown revolution. Any poltical parties are likely conspiring on how to best utilize this to their own advantage in order to come to power (the people are just starting to come to their senses of wanting out of the Euro).
There is nothing 'democratic' about coalition governments except that they are arbitrary and capricious like all forms of law except for natural law something Greece left behind at least a 1000 years ago.
The only difference between a dictatorship and coalition government is the people know the rules are arbitrary and capricious and can be changed at any time under a dictatorship. They believe otherwise when it is a coalition or any sort of representative government.
You can't pull that shit with natural law.
No pain no gain.
Just do it.
Really, this whole thing needs the right push from Madison Avenue.
Off myself for a better tomorrow.
Something like that...with tits and kittens.
Kitten Tits would be a great nickname for a girlfriend you wanted to dump you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPKYgHtnMJQ
Correctamundo.......
Steal what you can from your neighbor is the name of todays game.
It takes a huge amount of courage to do the right thing. I don't know whether or not there are politicians anywhere who possess sufficient courage to do what needs to be done and to tell the EZ/EU where to go.
Whatever else you may say about him, Hitler rightly rescinded all of the armistice "agreements" because Germany was being royally screwed by the "allies" after WWI and following Versailles Treaty.
A greek leader needs to come forward and say all agreements are off the table.
well said
Politicians may have courage, do they see beyond mandated choices.
That choice I believe, has been forgotten.
Handy site indeed, thank you.
Handy site indeed, thank you.
Fuck this guy. Pusscake.
If you would decide one day "Fuck it, let's go back to the drachma" and your tech guys reply to you "Listen, we need about 6 months to refactor all the banking IT, reprogram all the Point-of-Sales machines, develop the Tax collection web applications, desing the new banknotes, get the note-printers maintained and buy paper and printing supplies AND DO ALL OF THE ABOVE IN UTTER SECRECY ELSE WE'RE FUCKED INDEED" then you would most probably do what you have to do in order to be called a pusscake too.
We simply cannot leave the Euro at this time. We are in day 0 of those 6 months. Unless we decide, that it's fine to eat each other after all.
If Tsipras didn't immediately start that six months 5 months ago when he got in office, he is not only a pusscake but a fucking moron as well.
Snack now or feast later. Bon appetit.
That's exactly why I'm for staying in the Euro, although I know we could be better off with the Drachma. Nobody here has a fucking plan, they all make it up as they go.
In 20 years if Greece does not leave the EUR -- Rwanda will be better off.
Internal deflation might be a harder road to travel than monetary devaluation ... but it's hardly impossible. Hell most of ZH thinks internal deflation should be the default option (it's the only option with gold currency too, cross of gold and all that).
Can't stand the heat? Stay out of the pussy.
Yeah, whatever, just don't expect GREXIT "any day now". Not going to happen like that.
This Central Bank Circle Jerk is getting tiresome . . .
Any pont reading Greece articles? Franki Valli is the only guy who is enjoying this song.
<<Any pont reading Greece articles?>>
No, not on this site. Tyler's coverage is generally full of unquestioning belief in MSM sources, and quotations from eurocrats -- but nothing concrete from the Greek side, and almost no realistic analysis. This article is no exception. No wonder readers on this site are always confused, always seem to expect A New Deal just around the corner, and are invariably disappointed.
Try Mish for much better coverage and analysis. This coverage is idiotic.
or none for a clear and free mind, just a thought...
Cat needs to spend more time on HuffPo
Yeah, he/she's only fucking been here 5+ years.
Come on, this Greece shit is nothing more than fanning rumors.
10-15 articles A DAY? Half are unsubstantiated.
pods
I use to be here 5+ years.....kinda nice being a virgin again.
“…Who are you really, and what were you before? What did you do and what did you think, huh?”............Bogart
Good to have you back. I have noticed your posts are not as long as they used to be. Pull a Boris and start writing with an accent.
Thanks. Can I suggest a musical loop?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBVB3vHjKhs
Now let me get my parka on while I go stand in line at the ATM.
Suppose he could just make interesting stuff up like FOX does dude.
I only view MSNBC and CNBC.....cause I'm a intellectual.
I have to watch bloomberg because they charge for CNBC and MSNBC.
rumor: Ghordius ran to greece and tried to sell his business there, and get out his euro's before cap controls- that is why he ain't posting here no internet on those small greek islands..
His 8 track player got jammed in his Citroen. Probably be out of commision for days.
Hey Ren, was that you that had that long rant on the bond fund article last night 86'ed?
I skimmed it before bed, then this morning when I went to look for it, seems the Ministry of Appropriateness deleted it.
pods
Free speech meet egg timer.
I though/think this coverage has been and is entertainment.
The Matrix essentially.
Laughing outloud is extremely common while reading ZH.
Momentary therapy.
Obtaining parliaments approval is the lesser problem. More important is the total lack of economic perspective. More taxes and no debt relief are a toxious mix. Particularly the VAT increase is problematic. Revenues will drop and unemployment will rise further. Without a sizeable debt relief the debt carrying capacity remains at zero. What a disastrous result Tsipras is bringing home!
The problem the entire planet faces is much simplier. Simply put, the world has far too many useless overcompensated middlemen and paper-pushers.
money generating money for a select few without actually creating anything of real fucking value for anybody else.
Everyone has moved their money out of banks and so the cash-economy segment has grown. So tax collections will be lower.
Besides young Greeks and those with marketable skills have left the country. So GDP growth will be a problem becaues of that.
It is virtually impossible for Greece to handle its debt of $65,000 per taxpayer and growing with a shrinking GDP and lowered tax collections.
^^^this, what have I been saying...
get long black markets, sharecropping, and guillotines, beat the rush.
No need for the qualification. Ain't gonna happen [in Dana Carvey as George HW Bush's voice].
If there was a government that could put a low enough ceiling on all pensions (around 700 monthly) and a strict minimum age of retirement above 62, and if they could fire at least half of the useless civil workers (which should be roughly 1/3 of the total), we could be paying off all of it within 10-12 years, and prosper ever after.
DEFAULT!!!
DavidC
With only 11 votes majority, Tsipras could well be in for a surprise. Should be doable to get twelve people against it. And that shall teach the world, and especially Europe, a lesson: Democracy maybe doesn't end when election day has passed ...
The Syriza majority is almost irrelevant as the opposition will most likely vote for this which is precisely why they're not in power. The deal is a can kicking democracy killer.
Everything from the rule of law, to democracy are being completely undermined around the world and that is an equally large problem as the debt.
Hmm, now you got me thinking. You could be right. But at least I hope, that the deadbeats that make up said opposition will NOT vote for this - exactly and only because they are not in power. These shills would like to get back there - and if that means to let whole Greece go down the drain, break government and call for election just five months after the last one - so be it. These people are assholes, so don't expect anything other than shit from them ...
What "deal"? LOL!!!
During one of the perennial disputes between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus, which was now spilling over onto NATO, President Johnson summoned the Greek ambassador to tell him of Washington's "solution". The ambassador protested that it would be unacceptable to the Greek parliament and contrary to the Greek constitution. "Then listen to me, Mr. Ambassador," said the President of the United States, "fuck your Parliament and your Constitution. America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked by the elephant's trunk, whacked good.... We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about Democracy, Parliament and Constitutions, he, his Parliament and his Constitution may not last very long."
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Greece_KH.html
Thank you to whomever. Yesterday I was reading ZH and was soooo sick of the damn poppy, flashy, in-out grey to transparant ads that seem to have multiplied by 10x in the last couple months. I read on ZH that someone said to switch to mozilla with flashblock and adblock. OMG!!. I did this morning and I am a happy camper.
I know you need to make a few buck Tyler, but jezzz it has become insane navigating all the crap.
' Exhausted Euro leaders, emerged . . . '
My heart bleeds.
Sitting around a conference table unable to make eye contact, awaiting a yes/no, is exhausting and tense, just as my divorce settlement was.
Can't make this melodrama up.
yea sitting on their asses and waiting for jimmy johns whilst strategizing how to keep the ponzi going, hmmm exhausted from the jaw up. fucking cocksuckers from the jaw up...
Dude you been so wrong!
In fact its more than 4 years that you bring apocalypse news and guess what - stocks are at all high times with more than 200% up.
4 years only up no corrections !
Anyone implementing your advices is now bankrupted, but you and your friend from phoenix capital keep on going ....
You should apologize to your readers ,,,,
"4 years only up no corrections !"
Read that sentence again......
Take everything. All of your money. Mortgage your house and extend all credit to its breaking point and go balls deep into this market. PLEASE.
Are you kidding?
I have shorted the markets and lost so far 15% of my assets.
Zh sees only one side of the story
be smart not right
instead of making alot of money in the markets i have lost ...and i must say i was badly influenced by zh
Sometines in the future we will have deep correction-meltdown....it always happen after big rallies ...but this market can continue rallying for years
I cannot care less about your fraudulent Stock Market. I will not EVER invest one dime into it.
The REASON that I have money to burn is that I have STOPPED SPENDING. The Government gets ZERO REVENUE from DEAD CASH.
The Federal Reserve has tried to spark Inflation but Monetary Velocity is NEGATIVE. Thus what real wealth can they steal from me?
Taxation does not work.
Inflation is minimal. (Compared to what it will be in the end which will happen soon.)
Your "gains" in the Stock Market are due not to any production by these Corporations. The Corporations have also been borrowing heavily and buying up their own stock, to elevate outstanding share prices.
The Stock Prices are distorted and the Companies are heavily indebted to the point of insolvency. They were sucked into the chasm by the artificially depressed Interest Rates as a result of the destructive ZIRP policy of the Federal Reserve.
It will collapse as it is unsustainable. As a result, being invested into the Fraud and Corruption, and you will lose all that you have.
I am doing my best to bring that eventuality to fruition. The very best legal method to affect economic meltdown is non participation.. Stop spending. Minimize your tax footprint. Starve the Corporations of REVENUE. Starve the Government of TAX REVENUE.
Now I am aware that I cannot do that alone. But Zerhedge is in the top 1% of all websites frequented. Hundreds of thousands read these articles and read the comments on these pages. And my ideas are infectious.
We have stopped the Ask JPM campaign on Twitter, for instance. That was a minor success but it was still a success.
If a substantial number of people stopped spending then we can cause great havoc in the actual GDP and cause major losses to the dwindling profits of Corporations.
WE WANT THE FRAUD AND CORRUPT SYSTEM TO FAIL.
We have placed our PRINCIPLES before that of garnering PROFITS as we are VOLITIONALLY MORAL AGENTS.
We do not support the Corporatocracy and the Evil State as we have come to understand that Financial Support IS SUPPORT.
You do understand that the system is built upon FRAUD and CORRUPTION, and that, THROUGH YOUR OWN PARTICIPATION, you have demonstrated YOURSELF to be a FRAUD and demonstrated that YOU are CORRUPT.
You must have a distorted image of yourself when you gaze lovingly at the image in the mirror. You are an evil and ugly MONSTER, just like everyone else who supports the evil.
Now that is really very sad. It is sad.
So enjoy your collapse. Yes. I will be certain to enjoy your collapse.
I agree. Starve the Monkeys. Every animal I trap and eat is money that I do not need to earn, do not need to spend and do not pay taxes on when I earn it, and again when I spend it.
Every tomato I grow, every fish that I catch, every item I repair or buy used for cash - is money that I do not need to earn, pay tazex for the priilege of earning it, and then pay taxes for the privelege of spending it.
Self sufficiency takes a huge chunk out of .gov - which is why they hate us.
Learn To Trap
If not enough support for the deal is available Tsipras need not present it for a parlimentary vote. Tsipras stays in control.
YOU GOTTA BE SMOKIN SOMETHIN TO NOT SEE MULTIPLE ELA INCREASES AS OTHER THAN EU DESPIRATION.
Greece's everlasting problem is the Euro.
It can and will never recover, even after total default and reset, if it continues with the Euro.
Using the Euro confirms a massive advantage to German industry and an anchor around the trade of countries like Greece.
Get out of the fucking euro idiots.
I'm telling ye... get into the bullion... having it in your hand nullifies all this shit out.. it then becomes a bit of background theater
www.teamramgold.com
nothing to lose.. all to gain
Whatever they promised him or threatened him with this guy is a PUSS and Greece is just another Western country willingly committing suicide F* Greece F* Tspiras and F* the EU
If Syriza gives all these concessions to the vultures of EU, they will have committed political suicide. Thousands of SYRIZA supporters are already extremely angry at the government for not having said "fuck off" yet, and party member friends in Athens have told me that those in the Parliement have already started talking about leaving the party among themselves.
The funny thing is that you cannot leave a monetary union like this with a ceremony, it has to be a shock in the middle of an unexpected night, with excessive capital and border controls. The more it turns into a drama the whole world is watching, the more impoosible it is to leave. On the other hand, if Greece is going to leave, it has to be during the tourist season when both government revenues are at annual highs, and the devaluation of drachma will have its maximum positive effect. So the time is running out for the "Out" camp, they might need to take action to stop the idiot social democrats of SYRIZA destroy both Greece and a project that might otherwise be a circuit breaker to put an end to the global financial scum...
Im going Long knee pads, as I see Merkel buying a LOT
Dude? She's the main rat being serviced.
Bankers just flushed another fagget. Where are the Spartans?
Where are the Spartans?
They all retired at 50.....maybe check the heach.
I wait for Ghordi to come back, now that the Euro seems safed (for now). I bet he will, once the Greek parliament aproves the concessions made to Troika.
Ghordo's in the negotiation room. He's really sLagarde.
All he has to say is your paycheck depends on it to his fellow communists.....that will get their attention...
Thank you to whomever. Yesterday I was reading ZH and was soooo sick of the damn poppy, flashy, in-out grey to transparant ads that seem to have multiplied by 10x in the last couple months. I read on ZH that someone said to switch to mozilla with flashblock and adblock. OMG!!. I did this morning and I am a happy camper.
I know you need to make a few buck Tyler, but jezzz it has become insane navigating all the crap.
Ghostery will also work pretty well. You can also visit using your Tor browser, just dont be enabling Java, ect when using Tor, otherwise you're defeating the purpose.
This is a heartbreaker for Greeks, but one last shot. Better lean hard on parliament. Somebody there has to be willing to throw a middle finger to the END and IMF
Is there a man who's not a clown in Greece?
Seems like it could be another ploy...knowing your parliament isn't going to pass it you get your ATMs stuffed for a while longer. And for ZH, more Greece stories to write...which apparently I'm not the only one reading, despite the cries to "quit already". I know you're watching your page views and Greece still plays well apparently.
But honestly people, did anyone really expect centralized "retirement programs" to work? The west will end up with maybe two generations that benefited from these ponzi schemes and many more that will suffer from them in the end. There's a reason these things didn't exist before...they don't make any logical economic sense.
Excellent showmanship,,, excellent.
Apparently he has been "encouraged" to take the deal, by the man behind the curtain.
Didn't the TEA PARTY pull this same shit when they said they were going to defund all the wars and tighten the purse strings, and totally didn't?
The kicking of the can won't end until the rapture occurs IMHO. That will be the final straw that TPTB do not expect. Book mark it! Then usher in Revelation chapter 6 and the rider on the black horse. It will not be pretty. A better investment than gold is faith in Jesus. He is God's only acceptable payment for our sin.