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Greece Rejects "Totally Unacceptable" IMF Counterproposal Demanding Pension Cuts: Full Redline Comparison
As reported earlier and as tipped here on Monday, markets will have to call off the party for now because the focus of the Greek debt deal negotiations has now shifted back to Brussels after all eyes had turned briefly to Athens on Tuesday following reports which indicated a deal in principle had been struck. Here’s what we said less than 24 hours ago:
The IMF demands no tax hikes and pension cuts. Instead it will get almost exclusively tax hikes, amounting to 92% of the proposed measures, and just a few cuts, few of which actually impact Greek pensions. In short: the proposal is not only unsustainable, it is also unenforceable, something which the Germans - already facing a third Greek bailout - will be quick to point out.
Which is why tomorrow, after Tsipras is finished with the meeting with the Troika, he will have a new homework assignment: revise the "final final" proposal and come up with much less in tax hikes, much more in spending cuts: something which the already furious hard-line elements within Syriza will have a field day with.
And that is precisely what happened. As WSJ reports, creditors have decided to stick to their “red lines” after all:
Significant divisions remain between Greece and its international creditors over measures Athens must implement before receiving desperately needed bailout aid, according to a document seen by The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday ahead of a crucial meeting of eurozone finance ministers.
Key points of disagreement are corporate taxation, the overhaul of Greece’s pension system and value-added taxes, according to the document. For instance, Greece had planned to increase corporate taxes to 29%, but in the document creditors limited increase to 28%. That may cause new budget shortfalls that need to be plugged with other measures.
The Greek government has proposed increasing pension system revenues largely by raising social-security contributions from employers and limiting early retirement.
In the document, the creditors insist on savings worth 1% of Greece’s gross domestic product by next year and also call for eliminating a supplementary payment to the poorest pensioners, known as EKAS, by the end of 2017. The
Greek proposal wanted EKAS to be phased out only between 2018 and 2020.
The creditors also continue to insist on raising funds worth 1% of GDP from VAT, up from the 0.74 proposed by Greece.
And more from MNI:
One official said that the IMF disagrees with heavy taxation in businesses and the special corporate tax and wants more spending cuts in pensions and other public sector areas.
The International Monetary Fund sent its own version of a counter proposal to Greece's debt talks late Tuesday, a government official has told MNI, illustrating the growing dissent among the country's international
creditors.
The new proposal, sent to Greece late Tuesday, was deemed unacceptable by the Syrzia-led government, the official said, who used a Greek expression to suggest that receiving it was like "touching fire".
As indicated above, Athens isn't pleased with the IMF's position:
- GREECE OFF'L: IMF PROPOSAL TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE TO GOVERNMENT
AFP confirms:
#BREAKING Greece rejects counter-proposal from creditors: source
— Agence France-Presse (@AFP) June 24, 2015
Put simply, the IMF has decided that allowing Greece to wriggle from under the troika's thumb by substituting unenforceable tax hikes for actual, sustainable fiscal reform would send the wrong message to Spain and Portugal ahead of elections this fall where Podemos in Spain and the socialists in Portugal may well score decisive victories at the ballot box.
So it's back to square one — or square four, or five, or whatever square the negotiations were on when talks were still mired in an intractable stalemate last week.
Of course that means the terminal Greek bank run — which had already driven the Greek banking sector's remaining deposits to a level below the Eurosystem's total claims on Greece — will officially restart after taking a breather on Wednesday morning. Sure enough, despite reports earlier in the day that Greece had not requested an ELA increase, the ECB has now raised the limit again in anticipation of further withdrawals. Via Reuters:
The European Central Bank approved the amount of emergency funding (ELA) Athens requested for its banks on Wednesday, a banking source with direct knowledge of the decision said, without disclosing what amount Greece had asked for.
"The Bank of Greece got approval for the ELA it requested. If necessary the ECB governing council will convene again in the next 24 hours," the source said.
So as we've said all along, the troika will get its pension cuts and VAT hike come hell, high water, or Grimbo, because that's the only way to keep the Syriza germ from spreading and it's also the only guaranteed way to ensure that any and all "radicalists" are purged from the Greek government. That is, if you thought The Left Platform was upset on Tuesday, you haven't seen anything yet, because when Tsipras comes to parliament with a deal that looks identical to what the troika put forth months ago, political upheaval will follow in short order and either Syriza will be transformed into a party that will accept Greece's fate as Germany's debt serf, or Greeks will demand a new government and a Grexit — either outcome is ultimately preferable, from the troika's perspective, to giving the rest of the EU periphery hope that austerity (or what passes for austerity in Europe) is negotiable. So, either the Greek negotiators will finally enact the "dreaded" pension cuts and VAT hike (in its originally proposed form), or else the Troika will be able to wash its hands of a Greek default and blame it all on Greek intransigence while sending a strong message to political sympathizers that they will get nothing from the institutions.
Reinforcing this point is the following from Bundesbank board member Joachim Nagel (via MNI):
Bundesbank Executive Board member Joachim Nagel said Wednesday that he opposes another debt relief for Greece at this point, arguing that such a move could encourage other EMU countries to follow the example.
A debt relief for Greece "sets the wrong incentive for other countries," Nagel said at a conference in Frankfurt. "At this stage, a second debt relief would set the wrong incentives, especially for governments that are already weak" and struggling with growing opposition to austerity.
Then again, maybe all of this is just an elaborate attempt to hide the fact that Greece's fate has already been decided by Mario Draghi, whose former employer suggested as much earlier this week.
Finally, courtesy of the WSJ, here is a redline comparison of the original Greek proposal and the IMF's counter:
The five-page document, which is still a work in progress, outlines the so-called prior actions the Greek government is willing to undertake, as well as the creditor’s feedback on several overhauls through the “track changes” function. Key points of disagreement are corporate and sales taxation and the overhaul of Greece’s pension system, according to the document.
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shoot me............i dare ya
The IMF is trying to force political chaos in Greece to get rid of Syriza.
Right, because this brain-amputated idiots think they'd get their old cronies back to power. They are in for a rude awakening in the light of a "Golden Dawn" ...
So what!
As if getting rid of them will solve the problem
There's nothing left of Greece but economic ruins now.
THE IMF IS KICKING A DEAD HORSE!
Yeah, but this will also hurt the fat lady who rode in under it ...
I hope the Drachma comes back. Cheap vacations here I come! :-D
They keep trying to kick the can down the road, but eventually they will kick it into the house of cards they've constructed. Then the fat lady will realy sing. Anyone seen Cankles recently?
Im not reading any more of these greece articles. Im spent. Until something interesting like an actual default, grexit, whatever, ACTUALLY HAPPENS im not clicking on any more of these.
Amen.
However, if there is nice picture of tits and ass. Well, a man has his limits.
Maybe the banksters are really just trying to get Greece to cough up the rest of their physical gold bullion holdings?
Greece has 112 tons of gold. Other amounts show 117 or 147 because they say the extra 35 tons are already heald by the IMF or other banks abroad.
Greece owes like 360 Billion right? Their gold holdings based on the current manipulated, fraud spot price comes to about 5 or 6 Billion.
Not enough to pay the debt, but in reality we all know that gold is really worth many times the fake paper spot price.
And most physical gold has already been rehypothecated to like 100:1 in paper derivatives, right?
So by getting their hands on all of Greece's gold the banksters can use it to continue to supress the gold prices in favor of their dying fiat.
They seem prepared to make the Greek people suffer like crazy until everything breaks and Greece gives in to giving up the gold.
Just a theory...
FFS, you are a smart guy. These fuckers do not need to a bunch a sweeping patterns to put the ball in the end zone. Wanna know what they do? No sarc.
Where is the ball?
That is where the end zone is...alll done by magic.
The extra point is just for show.
To zerohedge,
Enough of this Goldman Zachs article you keep refering to. Can't you see they are doing their usual - painting the story one way so they can take the other side of the trade? Beisde the article in question is full of holes.
I don't pay any attn to anything GS says, either way. They have 0 (as in zero) credibility. Same for all banksters, US govt, US media. I ignore every word they say, knowing its most likely a lie/deception.
Varouf, Varouf, Varouf is on fire! We don't need no water let the mother-fakis burn! Burn mother-fakis! Burn!
The IMF needs to go get itself elected in Greece before it starts dictating how the country should be run.
No election, STFU... and print.
They create it from nothing anyway.
It's like "Wall Street," where Gecko is only after Bluestar's "over-funded pension" program.
One sentence letter from Lagarde to Greece:
GIVE US YOUR GOLD.
Your Request for Free European Taxes is just TOO DAMN HIGH, NO DEAL!!!
Like a broken record.... (The War On The Poor)
http://galeinnes.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-war-on-poor.html
And to think, just yesterday they reached a deal! My how quickly things change.
Blah blah blah blah blah.......... default. It is your fault, no it is your fault!!!!!!
Varoufakis will be the new Leonidas.
Obviously that was his entrusted strategy from the moment 0, only for a lunatic no-brainier retarded fuck or psychopath fascist banker 1%er prick a deal basically enslaving the elders of the society and its present & near future young generation would have been seem as just and fair.
Some photoshop art master here please :) ...
http://e08595.medialib.glogster.com/media/9c/9ce923601da9fd77ead8cf8468b...
"The extra point is just for show."
Not anymore
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000493347/article/nfl-moves-extra-p...
What? Tired of greekhedge.com?
I notice the thought provoking articles are for the evening crowd. There has been a much clearer separation as of the last year or so. The philosophical articles seem to be more in the evening, after we are all greeced out.
pods
Im not reading any more of these greece articles
Until the next one.
You cannot resist. Resistance is futile.
It is like watching a multi act play. And you leave before the crescendo, the final act, and then you will read about that...
And then you will ask yourself...What the fuck just happened?
Somehow I just do not see that in you.
The IMF prefers to dump money in Ukraine.
At least it rythmes with drain.
Let's all just keep walking around the chairs, the music hasn't stopped yet in Brussels.
This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on, my friends.
Some people started sing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it foever because...
This must be the song you mean.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKGoHPGM7v8
By decree, according to martial law, the following statutes are temporarily amended:
Right to assembly, suspended
Right to habeas corpus, suspended
Right to legal counsel, suspended
Right to verdict by a jury of peers, suspended.
No. I think he means this one...
It is just 10 hours of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2zJOryHKQ
~"Yeah, but this will also hurt the fat lady who rode in under it ..."~
She wasn't riding it down there, she was doing something else.., uhm, whoops! Never mind. Yeah, I guess the term "riding" will work after all.
And what was she singing...?
https://youtu.be/9gj9uEeuDtQ
Welp! Time for another 10 days of fine food and spa treatments. I meant negotiations, that's right rigorous negotiations.
What hapapened to Greek-Russian talks? That would have been their best bet. The EU just wants Greece for vacation and all those ports for NATO troublemakers, whereas the Russians are more culturally compatible and could have set up a reasonable financial plan. What made them cut a deal with the IMF scammers? The Greeks know very well that the IMF wants to leash them like dogs by whatever means necessary.
Even the Greeks .... know what losers .... the Russians are .... hell, they can't even .... make a car !
They do a credible job with tanks and war planes and their nukes work first time everytime. It's looking more and more like that may soon be an inmportant factor.
They make simple durable goods. Soviet tractors and ladas are still running strong. Not to mention the T-72s all over the world. When you have a long difficult history like Russia has had, it affects the culture and thought processes of the people. So yes, you are right in a sense that you won't find luxury cars coming out there any time soon, but then again that may not matter much in the coming years.
You mean Russian kids don't have built in wifi in THEIR vehicles?
Savages.
pods
You think cars are more important than the rockets they use to "shuttle" (is that a defunct word now?) US Astronauts to the space station? Oh, and GM has more cars under recall than they produced all of last year.
OK, I get it, you were pulling our legs. Ha ha. Carry on.
The GM recalls are to fix features that are not even on Russian cars.
Who gives a rat's ass? Honestly - this is what's wrong with America. A car that costs as much as, and more in some cases, than a house? WTF. Do you really need to have your ass pampered that badly? I just saw an add for leasing a mazerrati @ $639 / month. Even if you had that kind of dough, why would you spend it on that??????? I'm sure some rich fucks will write the lease off as a biz expense...again this should not be allowed. Luxury items are not expenses. They are luxury items.
But it amazes me, I see people who can't afford their rent, their electric bill but they have a brand-spanking-new car. Granted - I get that you need a car to get back and forth to work...if you do, in fact, work. But WTF is wrong with a used car?
Preaching to the choir here.
I don't even have power windows. Of course, my arms ain't broke so there's that.
pods
Another convert to the Reformed Orthodox Amish?
"I don't even have power windows."
Me too. I had to look long and hard for a Ford Ranger that had no power windows, door locks, cruise control or any of the other useless, expensive crap. The dealers thought I was insane. Which I am, by todays standards.
It simply amazes me to see people driving $60,000 pickup trucks with huge offroad tires that have never seen a dirt road - and never will, towing a $50,000 bass boat with a $25,000 outboard motor on the back. Then come hunting season, they'll load the $25,000 four wheeled buggy onto the trailer, drive down to the $3,000 a year hunting lease and shoot a 95 pound doe that yields 40 pounds of meat - and pay somebody a hundred bucks to process it for them.
I drive an $11,000 truck, paid for with cash and use a 50 cent snare to catch a 50 pound beaver to feed my family.
Learn To Trap
Good thing we have fancy cars and those russkies don't!
Actually, it's hysterical to see those rigs with their toy boxes cross the border. The dumb look on their faces on the news after they've been rolled and hog tied by some opportunistic Mexicans never ceases to give me entertainment. The typical finale is " something ought to be done about this so it doesn't happen again!" Stupid dipshits should be thankful their throats weren't cut.
Nothing like a good simple truck for utility and reliability. But I must say diesels are just sexier to ride in. ;-)
Miffed;-)
I think some of us here respect the Russians because they are a pretty self reliant people. The people you mention with expensive pickups are going to be in for a rude shock when the SHTF.
I got the same thing not long ago taking a car in for an oil change. The guy was shocked it was a manual transmission. I told him that automatic trans break more often and are more expensive to fix.
but their cars are more strong and reliable than oyotas douchebag muitard .
I dont know, but it seems Europeans are totally retarded. They will stick to some kind of stupid illusive dreams of "being Europeans", belonging to an "European culture", whatever that is, even if it means their self-destruction. After all the same thing happened in Ukraine - Western Ukrainians wanted so much to "become Europeans" that they destroyed themselves totally. But arent Americans doing the same? Because of a stupid quest for an ideal society, for ideal "democracy", which must be spread all around the world, even if it means bombing people, in order to be "ideal and exceptional people", most of them believe anything the USA government tells them, like silly children. And those who oppose are considered "not ideal and democratic enough". Congrats to Russians (and the Donbass people), who dont give a fuck about some silly ideas of "ideal Western civilisation and ideal European culture" and "ideal democracy" and they will just happily stay themselves, because they know that there are no ideals, there is only survival.
Free Shit America has great ideals, called robbery. It's like a stagecoach robber claiming the reason he was doing it was to give the tired horses a break and the passengers a leg stretch. Well, not exactly, Jesse doesn't then shoot the passengers, drivers, and the horses.
The FSA culture has now devolved to welfare recipients raising hell if they have to pick up their checks, they demand wire deposit. THAT is culture.
problem is it's not about some Platonian consept of "democracy" or anything like that. You'are overthinking it, it's about greed, pure and simple. Greed, steal from others so you can have more. "Capitalism" IS a zero-sum game.
"'Capitalism' IS a zero-sum game."
Since the emergence of modern capitalism about 200 years ago, average standards of living have increased 10x even as population has increased 7x.
Yup, clearly a "zero-sum game"...
/derp
perhaps they hope to carve some steaks off it ?
The problem for the IMF is that Greece is just the first cab off the rank. What it does to Greece is what it will eventually do to Germany...life under fascist bankster rule!
"There's nothing left of Greece but economic ruins now."
Oh, bullshit.
What's the land worth? Yeah, plenty...who do think will end up owning that prime realestate when this is all over...Greeks, or EU bankers/billionaires?
Greece is being asset stripped. EU taxpayers are keeping Greece afloat while the .1% gopple the place up at pennies on the dollar.
EU taxpayers are keeping Greece afloat while the .1% gopple the place up at pennies on the dollar.
...which the titles thereof will mean absolutely nothing when Greece Nationalizes all property ownership and all debts are repudiated.
The EU Taxpayers are being looted by their very own elite....which includes YOU.
Enjoy it as you deserve it.
They are not stealing Greece's wealth. The Greeks don't have any.
They are out to steal YOURS.
Greece is just the convenient excuse.
Tall Tom - "will mean absolutely nothing when Greece Nationalizes all property"
That is what could happen if the Greek govt was for the Greeks. The fix is in and the govt is working for the foreign elite. A clamp down will occur that will prevent any such hope. There are things that could have been done for the benefit of the Greeks several years ago but were not. Instead pension and other funds were raided and handed over to the foreign interests.
When "THE DEAL" was announced on these pages on Monday did you really think that it was a deal?
Tsipras has the EU over the barrel and they will default.
There will be no deal.
Actually Greece is the EXCUSE.
This is the SIDESHOW.
Douchebunk is TOAST due to collapsed Oil Prices.
The plan is to blame Greece for the Derivatives Market Meltdown with the CDS triggered by the Greece DEFAULT being the scapegoat.
The Germans are doing their best to cover up what is going to amount to be the greatest meltdown of all...the DERIVATIVES MARKET.
So I will continue to be entertained by the sideshow until they open the curtain on the MAIN EVENT.
Are you ready for September? It is going to be spectacular with the show presented in every theater, in every Nation.
It will be an Audience Participation Night event.
Hope you are ready. It premieres in September.
"That [nationalization of all land] is what could happen if the Greek govt was for the Greeks."
bleck...
I was going to post a pithy response explaining why you're an idiot for thinking that state ownership of all land would benefit the people, but I'm just going to call you an idiot instead, sans explanation, since I'm fairly certain you wouldn't understand the explanation anyway.
Don't try to educate yourself, just keep voting for more socialism, and then blaming capitalism for the resultant poverty and chaos. It's worked out well so far, amiright?
"The unacceptable face of capitalism", they called it back in the seventies.
The asset strippers moved on to countries instead of companies.
The IMF is absolutely right in their prescription for Greece (not that the IMF cares about the prosperity of Greece as such, they only want Greece prosperous so the loans get repaid, but that's irrelevant to the fact that their policies would in fact make Greece more prosperous).
To raise taxes yet again, while refusing to cut spending or liberalize the economy in any way, is to repeat the socialistic stupidity which brought Greece to this sorry state in the first place. For Greece it is (free market) reform on death. Very simple.
It's the same choice faced by most every Western state, and many outside the West - though with varying degrees of urgency.
As if getting rid of them will solve the problem
No. It will not.
But it does buy them a little more TIME.
It is like turning on the Bildge Pumps on the Titanic. The result of the predicament is guaranteed. It is going down. But it buys a little more time to switch cabins.
But he who dies last...still dies.
So it is actually quite meaningless at this point.
Oh and let me tell you... if they hate Syriza... there is no word to describe what they will feel for Golden Dawn!
In a way they should be feeling lucky that they got Syriza to even talk with them ;p
shoot me............i dare ya
Somebody please nailgun someone for the love of freakin Pete.
It's time to get off this crazy train.
Closer to home Chicago needs a 600 million loan for teacher's pensions by the end of this month with another 600 million by the end of the year.
No fucking end in sight. They laughed at Detroit's haircut. Bwaaaaah!
How about Michael Jordan for Superintendent of Schools? That would fix the problem and kids could major in basketball and have a remote chance for a job.
Who wants to bet the market will still go higher if not later today then certainly tomorrow
I agree with you on that one.
There should be one moar spike up before the Greek default SHTF next week
No the IMF, ECB, Syriza are all buying the rumor dips and reject drops afterwards. This is what happens when you put financial markets on algo autopilot and you know how they will react to news headlines. Those that can make the headlines can game the algos. Someone should look into Syriza and other Greek parlimentary members bank accounts, trading accounts etc and see how much they are taking in moving the markets with bullshit rumors. Same with people over at the ECB and IMF et al.
It is a giant skiming scheme using Greek default as the keyword.
Remember Syriza are politicians, politicians are just as if not so more corrupt that financial world because they are also popularity whores which puts them even lower on the rung than banksters who are more single minded in their corruptible ways.
Well said Targaryen, that has been the plan of the Troika since January but it has backfired. Support for Syriza has been going up, not down, and if it boils down to that, an exit is politically more possible than January now.
SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS SUBJECT!
Can't we talk about something new and important...like:
*Gay Marriage?
*Isreal vs. Palastine?
*Anything else?
Greece is playing these greedy fucken bankers...this story will never end until the bankers have stripped Greece clean...give the story a fucken break until the day Greece is cast out from the EU and joins with Russia.
Ahhhhh yesssss....get rid of those commie hand wringing whiners and bring in those more rational Golden Dawn Folks....they seem pretty flexible!
I think you mean IMF/USA.
A 17 year old genius female high schooler from Virginia claims she was accepted by both Harvard and Stanford to participate in a dual sponsored unique program. Now it aappears she may have been lying. Genius, liar , or just immature and inexperienced - this incident has all the character traits ( or lack thereof ) noticeable in this Greek drama. Some people's reputations are on trial and they may not even realize it. When they realize it, it will be too late for them.
Wow! Reputations, you say ?! That's serious. Let's all think about reputations instead of poverty and death.
The economic horror scenario now playing out in Europe is the result of Dominique Stauss Kahn being framed in New York in 2011 for rape by then Mayor Bloomberg's Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, whose son Greg Kelly is an actual serial rapist. IMF's Managing Director Christine LaGarde belongs in prison for giving French business tycoon Bernard Tapie 400 million Euros to settle a business dispute involving Adidas and the now defunct Credit Lyonnais bank. As French finance minister in 2008, she knew how crooked Tapie was, yet allowed him to collect maybe four times the amount he was due from the then government-run bank. So, when LaGarde wanted to be IMF Director, the New World Order owed her a favor for helping out Tapie and Bloomberg was the NWO's instrument. Helped by Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance, the most crooked DA ever to hold that position, a shakedown artist and a liar.
How DARE Greece try to escape from the global economic rape camp? They haven't been fully raped to death yet! Besides, I hear frau Merkel wants to grind out one final orgasm on the corpse while it's still warm...
SOMEBODY KICK THE RECORD PLAYER, IT'S SKIPPING
Rather just break the record
Smash the fucken player...I'd be just fine never hearing this song again.
The US-dominated IMF wants its pound of flesh for Tsipras cozying up to Putin.
I didn't see Greece saying nyet to sanctions renewal
This has little to do with Tsipras playing footsy with Bad Vlad
Have to show the other niggers of europe they will get no mercy on their debts
Ukraine excepted of course
And because the IMF (and its "Backers") prefer to keep pissing money down the drain in Ukraine, even if it defaults. Which amounts to the same point you make....and, more explicitly, as comes as no surprise to anyone, the IMF is just a tool of US foreign policy, even though the US hasn't paid into the IMF as was required for several years. Anyway, the Chinese backed AIIB will soon be up and running with real reserves (Not debt) behind it, and the possibility of a Gold-backed currency (Probably Implicit not explicit) behind it.
Implicit, not explicit gold-backing... get a load of the double-talk here.
Either you can convert to gold, or you can't... and basically have fiat plain and simple. At this point, RMB is not even easily convertible to other fake money, which is why the MSCI refused to plunge in right now. Imagine how fast the outflows would be if the capital controls were relaxed!
As in, we have 30,000 Tonnes of Gold. Show us yours. The Chinese are very patient and move slowly but methodically. Next step, taking over the pricing of physical Gold in Shanghai, then allowing the Gold price to move up in Yuan. The NY Comex paper price must either follow up in USD (And The Wall Street Arbs will ensure that happens) OR allow an implicit substantial increase in value of the USD. Either way, China wins. If the price of Gold moves up, based on the size of China's holdings, it's reserves increase in value. If not, and the implicit value of the USD increases via the Gold conversion equivalence, then China's export machine benefitss via a weaker Yuam relative to USD. Clever, hey? He who has the Gold sets the rules. Or, in American terms, as JP Morgan said "Gold is money, everything else is credit".
If gold moves to $4000, then it's still a sliver of the $28 trillion in debt for you. No gold reserves in the world will ever be sufficient for modern economies and their massives debts, and China is foremost in debt.
Question remains, does China actually trade gold for its paper? If not, then you're just babbling about another fiat.
If China wants to devalue, btw, nothing stopping it right now. It needs to do so right now., in fact, simply to match Japan and Europe. It doesn't. You are being absurd. Capital flight is already a problem for China.
You think China has all the answers and it's playing a long game. Sorry. You're wrong.
Tsipras should go datk for several days...disappear from public appearances and stop taking any calls.
A Grexit can't possibly happen on a Wednesday.
"Flight, this is launch-control. We are all go for launch."
Come on, greeks, default. Default today!
Default? What planet are you on? Why would any debtor default if the bankers are willing to hand over more money for just jumping through a few hoops?
The decision to default is not in Greeces' hands...that decision belongs to the bankers pulling the political/financial strings.
Yea!
Default!
Fuck those evil banksters and their fiat system!
And after we default, just print Drachma to pay for our welfare-state!
...wait, wut?
#inner-contradiction-for-Syriza-ball-lickers
Jesus Effing Christ
Just default and get it over with
Yeah.....about that.....can't do it.
Everything is connected now.
Yes....I'm aware it sucks.
As if that matters.
Being connected means the whole EU shit show collapses with Greece.
Nothing can be done about it now but try to stand back as far as possible.
A drug addict will do anything for the next shot of dope....I give you Exhibit A.
Speaking of drug addictions...
I'm scratching my wrists and jonesing for another hit of "Since Lehman"
It's been at least a week, and I haven't been fiending this hard for a fix since...
"Greece, the biggest clusterfuck since Lehman."
Hope it helped, sweaty, shaky and twitching is no way to go through life.
Exactly..the EU is actually talking about giving Greece another 7.5 billion....Tisparis wants it..its free money to him....wether he owes 350 billion or 400 billion....none of it will be paid back....but another 7.5 billion is a ham sandwich or tow for him...and a few million to a Swiss Bank account for his retirement...its normal business in Greece...
Wimpy, Popeye's deadbeat pal.
"I'll gladly pay you tomorow for a hamburger today". That's Greece
hey, could you and headbanger please get "non-moving" avatars, it is distracting and tiring to me.
hah!
they have been talking about this shit for Fucking YEARS.. IF they ever actually DO ANYTHING about it.. i will be SHOCKED!
Fucking idiot Keynesian central banksters don't know how to actually do anything cause they live in a make believe world
They're all stuck going round and round in this endless loop thinking they're getting someplace cause they keep moving.
It all flies apart on its own very soon leaving the ruins behind just like the collapse of the Roman Empire
The "free shit" army never, ever accepts a cut of any kind! Just keep playing the same song over and over.
The whine heard around the world. Same here in the USSA!
Print MOAR, that's the ticket.
Pensioners are the "free shit" army? Are SSI retirees a "free shit " army? When you've paid into a system your whole working life is that"free shit"?
No one paid into anything it was stolen out right. Pensioners are participating in a ponsi fraud. That wealth was stolen/sold for magic beans.
The pensions started when there was Silver and Gold in the system now theres none. Maybe if those pensioners lose everything their suffering will allow for punishment or not, since it was they who sold their children into slavery.
SSI is a Ponzi scheme...just ask Ida May Fuller (from Wikipedia):
The first monthly payment was issued on January 31, 1940 to Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vermont.[27] In 1937, 1938, and 1939, she paid a total of $24.75 into the Social Security System. Her first check was for $22.54.[27] After her second check, Fuller already had received more than she contributed over the three-year period. She lived to be 100,[27] and she collected a total of $22,888.92.[28]
In other words, Ida received more than 1,015 times more than she paid in to SS. It'll just keep going this way...until it can't.
LOL
Have I got a deal for you!! Just pay me every week, into SS (or I'll send some boys in blue to your house, and shoot you) and voluntarily pay into what we call a "pension fund", and, after giving us the best 30-40 years of your life, we'll give you all that money you paid in, which will have it's original buying power!
Just get out there on the shop floor, and I'll see you in 30 years! AHAHAHANAHA! No, no, sorry just thought of a funny joke! Seriously if you can't trust government and corporations, then who can you trust?!
In 30 years you'll be fishing from your own dock at your Colorado chalet, eating thick unicorn steaks and whatever horseshit fantasy you cling to so you can slog along serving us decade after decade until your eventual demise.
AHAHAHAHAH, now get back out there and VERK!
And I suppose we all agree that ’the free shit army’ are the creditors/banksters/
fiat/debt-factories?
Doesn't anyone else feel sorry for the poor computer programs running their algorithms? I mean, it must be very confusing for them.
Fuck you Draghi...
OT:
OMG the Russians are coming. Jade Helm???
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102783868
I'm with Texas on this deal.
If they're the enemy.....then so I'm I.
"So as we've said all along, the troika will get its pension cuts and VAT hike come hell, high water, ...."
Wrong!!!!
I have always said that a deal was already baked in the cake since Tsipras immediately abandoned his pre-election promises and started toeing the creditors line leading up to his complete capitulation in his last proposal but the political price they are now asking him to pay is so high I am sure the "fuck it" option must be one he is seriously now considering.
This tragicomedy has legs.
Theres only one story better than this one, and it's the Fed rate hike ..... COMING SOON, PART DEAUX, REDUX, DIRECTORS CUT, PART 4, JUST ONE MORE TIME........
Yeah...we're gonna raise rates.
Who doesn't enjoy suicide?
Criminal
they should have put their money in MyIra then it would have been safe! Sheeeitttttt
A Kippling poem comes to mind...
Hot off the press.....fire burns.
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Greek pension reductions are a template for screwing over the pepsi generation in the US.
Average Greeks need to man up and decide to either kiss the troika's ass or reject the Euro and go on to a new monetary unit like silver coins.
This has been my mantra from day one. But apart from kissing the Troika goodbye, they need put their sorry asses into gear and leave the cafeterias to the old and the tourists. Money is a tool but it needs working hands and minds to give it full value.
or Olives
As I said yesterday, if 70% of home borrowers have defaulted on their home loans, most shops are behind on their rental as well as a large number having closed, government has not paid doctors, and others, for services rendered, the previous political parties ruling Greece cannot pay their loans, many people have not been paid their wages etc etc then how the f...... can Greece not default when internally the whole population has defaulted in one way or another.
It is the equivalent of saying that every division of the company has shown a loss but the company as a whole has shown a profit. It just doesn't stack up.
Greece needs to rebrand itself as the first anti-ZWO country. Throw Monsatan and all other ZWO globalist entities out of the country, restore organic farms, ban the WTO/Chinese slave market shite from entering the country and market itself as the first non-ZWO organic country. Much of the country is a med paradise so lets get on with it.
ZWO ? Presuming you mean Zionist World Order, I would say you are clueless (look on a map and study history)
Hasbara troll, Inc.
- Relationship actions
-
- Become piratepiet2's Contact
Historyfrankly, how long somebody has been around should not matter all that much.
And I have been around for much longer, first as a reader, later got my ass kicked and had to reregister.
All I am saying is your call for establishing Greece as anti-ZWO sounds a bit out of touch to me. Again, look at a map and study history.
You can advocate relocating Greece to Mars as well if you want.
But remember : Politics is the art of the possible.
"later got my ass kicked"
I should have written : later I got kicked out
The place can't rebrand itself while it clings to outmoded systems and attitudes. A friend (resident of Australia) recently tried to withdraw funds that had been placed in a Greek account with his name on it by his grandfather and could not do so unless he provided over 10 different pieces of information ranging from proof of identity, passport, tax returns and assessments, stat decs, phone records as proof of phone number etc etc etc.
Another friend opened a cleaning company in Greece with over 200 employees. Only 25% of the employees are Greek. When asked "why?" his response was, "being a cleaner is a stigma that the overwhelming majority of Greeks cannot bear, even when they cannot find work."
And Greece still boasts a large number of retirees in their 40's and 50's, so imagine what the unemployment rate would be in the absence of early retirement.
Not saying it's going to be easy, but what an opportunity for humanity. Throw off the zio usury system and it's globalist corporate entities of rape and pillage. Get on with it.
The Globaists are not Zionists they are Luciferian. Important point especially if there is ever to be true justice.
Otherwise you make a good point.
"The Globalists are not only Zionists, they include Anglos and Asians, too- yet all of them serve their maser, Satan."
FIFY.
PS- this word "Luciferian" doesn't mean what many think it means, and the Globalist aren't just Zionists.
Greece should team up with Spain and Portugal (and maybe some others) and come out with the statement that it is their intention to simultaneously leave the Euro.
Now I am sure Germany would be very happy to have to trade with a Euro that will in the end be very much stronger than now, aka DM.
I think Greece can increase its hand a whole lot more if Spain, Greece and Portugal decide to work together on joint proposals.
Though Germany doesn't want to bail out Greece some more without totally subjugating them to vasal status, they are very much enjoying the weaker Euro that is the result of all this crap. they are no hurry to fix things, ever.
if greece can go from a budget deficit to a budget surplus simply by defaulting then they must be a bunch of retards to even be talking with those maggots. i know there are other forces at work, like corruption and extortion, but still, they must be stupid or something.
Like an addict they would continue their Keynesian ways and would be right back at the same point with their own drachma dollar, which no one would want, in several years.
Economic communism, by any name does not work.
Start a Trend.
Tell the Non Productive Bankers to Fuck Off.
No matter what this will never end in a good way and it seems that the more money control they have , the more they take.
Hoping that the Fed. Dies and the system is for the people, not the Bankers and their cronies and paid minions.
Resistance is freedom. People don't know how to resist the system. You can reject it all you want but without resistance it will always creep back into your life somehow.
Passive resistance is the most efficient, it only uses energy when energy is directed at it. You don't have to waste yours that you need to function when done correctly. That is the only strategy a Nash equilibrium should be used for.
Numerically it works like this
6 < 8
6 - 5 (rejection) < 8 - 5
1 < 2
now
6 < 8
6 + 2 (passive resistance) = 8
6 + 2 = 6 - 2
See how it works. I didn't need a PHD and energy wasting complicated computer models to figure this out. Make them waste energy that doesn't require you using yours to function. This is why Ghandi was as successful as he was. We'll call it Ghandi Game Theory for the weak minded who need catchy sell-able names to accept ideas. You need to resist not just reject.
So clearly this is a bearish case for PMs.
So WW2 reparations are definitely off the table.
Keep this in perspective; Greece's 2014 GDP was 248 billion, Germany was 3634 billion.
Greece is a grease spot, approximately 25% of Greece's economy is off the books which the Greeks refuse to pay tax on, yet they demand moar.
They are toast and it will be but a hiccup in the world economy and not a 'contagion' event causing a wider economic collapse.
Greece is toast.
A tail is trying to wag this dog .... as the liberals are want to say !
The ghost of Anthony Quinn, Topol, and Ari Onasis down voted you...
If it would be just a hiccup then why haven't they been thrown the fuck out of the EU yet? Seems like an awful bit of trouble to keep them around for such an insignificant country. Similar to the US. Many say that the economy is booming and things are going well. If that is the case, let the Fed raise rates to historical norms and see what happens. Let the Fed stop buying stocks and bonds and see what happens. It's a big ass house of cards and they don't want it to fall.
Greece default is an unknown contagion event. You can knock a small tile over to start the whole thing. Such as trillions in derivates...
'xactly
Do you see what a problem it is .... to get government workers and retirees .... to give back .... just a little .... no wonder unions .... only want to represent government workers .... the real workers be damned !
Well, this seems to be part of the larger script where the ECB and EU have a pretext to eject the IMF from the troika and deal with this among Europeans only. As such the Washington based IMF (USA puppet) nanny will be repaid with new ECB funds and the transatlantic rift will get bigger again
Fuck Greece! They expect other people to continue to foot the bill while thinking they have any negotiating power. Fuck the EU and IMF! They are trying to hold together the facade of their organizations. Complete sideshow.
so rumor of a deal and the fucking rigged dax is up 6 percent over 2 days. however, when there is no deal, dax falls less than 1 percent.
makes so much fucking sense.
all this does is give them another opportunity to pump up these ''markets'' more when they kick the can again.
I've made loans to people who were in default for years and they always had an excuse for not paying or a promise to pay soon "if I would only give them a little more time". And in every case they were still doing other things like living OK, going out to eat, buying stuff, etc. And when I finally had enough and called the loan, demanded payment and grabbed the collateral I was the one who was accused of being a heartless SOB. Lesson learned: don't loan if you can't stand the thought of a default because it's a bitch to collect if you gave money to a deadbeat.