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Putin Strikes Back: Cuts Ukraine Gas Discount

Tyler Durden's picture




 

We had wondered at the relative lack of response by Russia to extended sanctions and asset freezes in Europe and now we see the first major move. Having confirmed new counter-sanctions this morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin just threw The IMF (US taxpayers), and Ukraine's 'American' finance minister under the bus...

"Moscow can no longer give Ukraine gas discounts due to the current drop in oil prices."

 

The price must be on level of other countries like Poland, he added.

While Christine Lagarde has made it clear she will spend Other People's Money in Ukraine (but not Greece) no matter whether Ukraine defaults or not, one suspects the end of the gas discount will crush IMF expectations for Ukraine growth and make it increasingly impossible for her to justify throwing worse money after bad...

Does Ukraine have any gold left with which to grease the skids?

*  *  *

As we asked previously, is this the start of Russia's move to cut Ukraine out of the loop?

This is an eventful period for EU-Russia gas relations.

EU-Russia existing gas connections

So, how should the most recent evolutions of the Russian waltz of pipelines be interpreted? There are three possible scenarios:

i) Turkish Stream for Turkey only & Nord Stream for the EU. In this scenario Russia would target the construction of the first string of Turkish Stream to divert the 14 bcm per year currently supplied to Turkey via the Trans-Balkan pipeline (crossing Ukraine, Moldova, Romania and Bulgaria) by 2016, as recently agreed in Ankara. This would allow Russia to capitalize on the massive investments already made in the "Russian Southern Corridor" and to make use of the South Stream pipes already delivered at the Varna harbor and of the pipe-laying ships already placed in the Black Sea. Considering the regulatory and financial barriers to the development of new infrastructure to deliver Turkish Stream gas to EU destination markets, Russia would abandon its plan to supply the EU market via Turkish Stream and rather invest in the expansion of Nord Stream to cover this market. 

 

ii) Nord Stream expansion as a bargaining chip to advance Turkish Stream. In this scenario Russia would propose the expansion of Nord Stream, in order to have another bargaining chip in the negotiations with Turkey (and Greece), and to quickly advance the full Turkish Stream project and ensure better commercial conditions. This would allow Gazprom to avoid further controversies around the OPAL pipeline and to deliver gas directly to southern European markets. This way Gazprom’s ability to sell gas to southern Europe would not depend on additional north-south pipelines under EU rules, and some price-differentiation between the northern and southern market for Gazprom gas could be maintained.

 

iii) No pipelines, just politics. In this scenario Russia does not intend to develop either the full Turkish Stream (but at most the first string for the Turkish market) or the expansion of Nord Stream. The proposals are thus intended to create political cleavages within the EU, at a moment when the EU is toughening its stance against Russia due to the Ukraine crisis. They create cleavages between northern and southern EU countries (Germany favoured by Nord Stream; Italy and Greece favoured by Turkish Stream); between the EU and Member States (for example Member states’ actions that counteract the Brussels strategy to diversify away fro m Russia); and within EU countries (by causing the interests of governments and energy companies to diverge). In such a scenario, this waltz of pipelines thus represents a new chapter in Russia’s enduring divide and rule strategy vis-à-vis the EU energy market.

*  *  *

With potential Greek pivots still on the table (as The IMF shuns Greece's offer) and the odd new allies in The Middle East, it appears this economic sabre-rattle will once again boomerang back to Washington as Ukraine goes from failed state to failed-er state.

*  *  *

Source: SputnikNews

 

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Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:25 | 6229201 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Doesn't matter.  With an unlimited LOC from the USSA via the IMF, the Ukies can now pay it. 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:28 | 6229212 Looney
Looney's picture

Here’s another piece of useless news ;-)

French President Francois Hollande has called a high-level emergency meeting for 9 a.m. on Wednesday after WikiLeaks reported that the U.S. had spied on him and two of his predecessors.

Hollande is a useless toad, but he will use this “spying un-scandal” to release the Mistrals to Russia.

For the last two centuries France has always aligned itself with Russia to keep Germany’s influence and ambitions in Europe in check. Also, all his predecessors since the end of WWII have been un-diplomatically vocal against our (the US’) influence over France.

Hollande has known or suspected that if the NSA was listening to Merkel’s phone, it was spying on him as well. Now, when it has become public, he must do something “heroic” against the US’ wishes, i.e. release the Mistrals to the Russians.

The pesky Russkies never needed those ships to start with, especially now, but they will definitely jump on the chance to take delivery and poke the “pigeon on the chess board” in the eye once more. ;-)

Looney

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:35 | 6229217 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

I think this is a good move by Putin. By cancelling discounts, he is cutting the cashflow of the Ukie Oligarchs, who buy the discounted gas and then illegally re sell it at higher prices to the domestic market and near abroad.

Even better, we can count the Ukie elites to do the stupid thing, and threaten to cut off gas supplies and/or steal from downstream customers.   The end game is in sight. The Ukie Elites sans Porky and the Rat, will inevitably cut a deal with Putin and  throw the Kiev Coup government under the bus. With the exception of the so called Chocolate King, every Ukie oligarch has lost big via the overthrow of Yanukovych.  They did not get what was promised by the USSA state department, and got fucked, along with the EU.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:35 | 6229242 HenryHall
HenryHall's picture

The Krasnodar to Kerch electricity transmission cables go live in December 2015. Then you will see a real energy squeeze on Ukraine. Including no more electricty from Ribnita. Odessa goes dark first.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229269 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

PUTIN: Touche!

KERRY: Touch e what, there Vlad?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:08 | 6229354 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

BTW, notice how the Ukie/USSA state department trolls have not yet appeared, unlike yesterday?  Remember when the Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko requests the supreme court of Ukraine to declare that his predecessor, Viktor Yanukovych, was overthrown by an illegal operation?

http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/ukraines-pres-poroshenko-says-overth...


  The USSA must protect the lie that Yanukovych ran away from the angry people instead of being illegally overthrown by the USSA, otherwise the entire narrative becomes incomprehensible.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:34 | 6229439 HenryHall
HenryHall's picture

What on earth would motivate Poroshenko to do that?

I'm guessing (wild guess) he expects to be similarly overthrown himself and will want asylum in Russia.

That doesn't sound likely, but more likely than any other explanation I can think of.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:48 | 6229774 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Your explanation makes sense, but it is just as likely that Porky hit his morning  vodka bottle earlier than usual, or aliens from planet Zeta are controlling his mind.  When it comes to the absurdity of Ukie politics, nothing would surprise me.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:17 | 6229874 HowdyDoody
HowdyDoody's picture

The system gives the ex-president some useful perks such as a state-provided pension and a state-funded personal security detail. I suspect Poryshanko sees the benefit of the latter particularly should he ever end up in the same position.#

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 18:42 | 6231283 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Noodleman

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:46 | 6229763 farflungstar
farflungstar's picture

Couldn't believe when I read that. Did he forget to take his meds or something? I can imagine Pyatt or Nudelman gave him an earful afterwards.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:50 | 6229779 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Perhaps Porky ate one too many Nudelman cookies, the ones laced with LSD and rat poison.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:52 | 6229985 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Nudelman only uses scopolamine in her cookies, for God's sake! She's not a homicidal psychopath.

She's a genocidal psychopath - she just get's paid less than men.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229268 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

I fear to hope, but hope I do.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:33 | 6229429 Eirik Magnus Larssen
Eirik Magnus Larssen's picture

This. Well put.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:56 | 6229311 saints51
saints51's picture

I think you nailed it.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:15 | 6229373 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

+1. Putin forces a hand here, elite either stays in Ukraine or throws in the towel. Timing with Greece news is uncanny. So some hands fold this summer and end game by fall.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:52 | 6229984 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Latina Lovrer -" By cancelling discounts, he is cutting the cashflow of the Ukie Oligarchs"

Better observation is that until now Putin was giving generous discounts to WUke and was ASSISTING the people who have been murdering the EUke people.  Despite the WUke govt declaring Russia a mortal enemy, waging war against the people of EUke, shooting down MH17, committing war crimes and ethnic genocide - Putin chose profits over principals and has assisted the criminals.

Twice when EUke forces had trapped a large segment of the WUke army and were set to destroy it Putin rushed to the aid and defense of the WUke's and forced EUke to agree to a cease fire and to allow the WUke's to safely withdraw (only to attack the EUke's again). 

Putin is so NOT scary that simply charging the same rate others are charged is touted as a big and bold action. 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:10 | 6230043 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

I was wondering were did all the trolls go... You sir, have the honor to be the first to come back ! Do you have a different potato day, or what ? 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:31 | 6229225 Haus-Targaryen
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I don't think the Russians would want them anymore.  Way too many places to hide explosives on a ship that size below the water line.  At this point & time, given the situation of things, the Russians would essentially have to tear it apart as soon as they took delivery to make sure the French via the US didn't put a "surprise" in it somewhere.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:37 | 6229254 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

The Russians can build ships much cheaper than the French, and to their exact specifications.  Moreover, building them domestically will better stimulate their economy than buying from France.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229264 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Right at this poitn & time, the Frogs are in breach, and should give the cash back to Russia + interest & penalties.  

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:12 | 6229604 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Spot on. Having worked with Russians, education level and work ethic are higher than FR or USSA. Vlad told Duma let's build it Russia, a while back when sanctions hit.

Go Vlad Go.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:37 | 6229266 philipat
philipat's picture

Ukraine has NEVER been able to stand on its own two feet without Russian support (Despite the new Monsanto Whaet crop investnets). So Putin is now saying to his American "Partners" Fuck you, if you want it it's yours...

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:52 | 6229978 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Russia has subsidized  Ukraine 235 Billion USD since breakup USSR

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 14:21 | 6230265 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

twin

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 16:29 | 6230857 researchfix
researchfix's picture

Which will now work for better causes.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:40 | 6229272 HenryHall
HenryHall's picture

The Russians will take them though. Take delivery and immediately sell them on to the Chinese. Who will buy them at top price just to get hold of the blueprints.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:40 | 6229271 mog
mog's picture

to release the Mistrals to Russia.

Actually they don't want them - outdated and slow.

They want the money back.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:48 | 6229493 HamRove
HamRove's picture

Hollande is a useless toad

Actually Hollande is a useless French Frog....get your derogatory terms correct. 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:36 | 6229235 two hoots
two hoots's picture

Putin profits no matter where the money comes from (in the West).

Once the US sticks its nose under the tent our $ are committed.  Departments (State/DOD, all) have their 2015 budgets so no approval needed.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:54 | 6229519 Elliott Eldrich
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So let me get this straight: After endless provocations, Putin is now going to... make Ukraine pay market rates for their gas? Not going to cut it off, not going to price gouge, simply going to allow the price to rise to market rates. Do I have this right?

My GOD! What a MADMAN! I can see now that the Western media has been right all along about him! 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:17 | 6229871 BarkingCat
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Take note ladies and gentlemen - this is how you do first class sarcasm!!!

 

(have see many lame attempts by others here)

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:25 | 6229202 Ancona
Ancona's picture

Game[s] on bitchez.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:26 | 6229206 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

In other news...

's Federation Council thinks events in are completely repeating first phase of coup in .

By deploying missile defense elements, Poland, Romania automatically become potential targets - Russian Security Council via Interfax

The approval rating of Putin in Russia hit 89%

French intelligence collection ship A-759 Dupuy De Lôme in Black Sea

Photos show shrines being blown up by fighters -

ISIS declares governorate in Russia's North Caucasus region

Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania, Poland Agreed To Military Equipment - US Defsec

's naval flotilla taking part in drills in Sea of

 

Quite the action this week

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:38 | 6229255 mog
mog's picture

ISIS declares governorate in Russia's North Caucasus region

Thats going to cause a bit of a problem.

The Jews are after that.

Khazaria - reborn.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:56 | 6229310 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As if Mossad isn't as intertwined with ISIS as the CIA is...

I think the problem is your perspective.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:51 | 6229783 farflungstar
farflungstar's picture

ISIS in the North Caucasus region will find out the hard way that Russians don't do half-measures. See: Chechnya.

Fri, 06/26/2015 - 09:06 | 6237075 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Haven't you yet figured out that "ISIS"="the Jews"?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229261 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

It is obvious to anyone that the USSA is trying to instigate a color revolution in Armenia. Same old flags, slogans, hashtags, colors, bells etc

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:20 | 6229389 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The USSA and its zionist jew neocons apparently can't think more than 2 steps ahead.  Say a neocon wet dream comes true and Armenia is destabilized... There are a bunch of road mobile nuclear weapons at the 102nd Military Base in Gumry.  Putin's only two options (since driving them across Georgia to get home to Russia is out of the question) would be to airlift them in a public and humiliating retreat, or drive them south to the Iranian nuclear facilities.  

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:22 | 6229650 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Say a neocon wet dream comes true and Armenia is destabilized... There are a bunch of road mobile nuclear weapons at the 102nd Military Base in Gumry.  Putin's only two options (since driving them across Georgia to get home to Russia is out of the question) would be to airlift them in a public and humiliating retreat, or drive them south to the Iranian nuclear facilities.

A third option exists: fortify the base in Gumry and then sit back and watch. If the destabilization by US-paid agitators (and that's exactly what they are, as in every 'color revolution') results in a coup (as in Ukraine), the new US-friendly Armenian regime will promptly be faced with an invasion from Azerbaijan as the Nagorno-Karabakh war restarts. The Russians will take a neutral position, call for peace, and take no action other than defending the Gumry base (a position which even paid sycophants like the NYT will find difficult to criticize).

The US puppets in Yerevan will lose and/or be overthrown, and Armenia will join Ukraine as yet another miserable example of the results of the US foreign policy of 'spreading democracy' via forced sodomization.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:47 | 6230146 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Don't forget China's massive Victory over Japan 70th Anniversary Parade coming up in a little while.

It should rival Russia's.  Nobody parades like China.

They'll probably dump all over the US fight in the Pacific, the way the West did on Russia's victory in Eastern Europe.

Sauce for the Goose.....

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:30 | 6229219 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Good work Putin. Please help us defeat the NWO banksters.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:30 | 6229221 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

I wonder:

How long has the globalist/NWO Zionist plan been in place?

Why did they pick 2015/2016 to fuck the world?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229260 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Year of the goat.

OR...year of the horned beast.  You know, if you swing that way.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:50 | 6229293 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

This horned beast?

"Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon." - Revelation 13:11

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:57 | 6229313 suteibu
suteibu's picture

I was thinking more on the lines of the Luciferian horned beast, but, hey, a horned beast bringing destruction on the earth is a horned beast bringing destruction on the earth whether from the Bible or elsewhere.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:05 | 6229342 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

"whether from the Bible or elsewhere"

Where do you think the idea of the beast you are describing comes from?

PS- It comes from the Bible- from the book of Revelation.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:09 | 6229356 suteibu
suteibu's picture

So the Bible is a must-read for good and evil?  Who knew?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:24 | 6229405 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

Lol.

Yes:

The story begins with Genesis, where the force of evil (Satan) is introduced to humankind, and overcomes most throughout history.

The story ends with the force of Evil (Satan) being overcome and vanquished by the force of Good (Jesus), who then rules over a world without Evil (Satan).

Between the beginning and the end, it describes events that would take place- way before they actually happened.

You should give it a read- it's the most important and meaningful book ever written.

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:30 | 6229419 suteibu
suteibu's picture

If Luciferians also read the Bible they must be pretty bummed out that it ends badly for them. They must have a plan B, right?

On the upside for them, they get to fuck up a lot of people until then.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:46 | 6229480 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

No plan B.

And, unfortunately, most are on the losing team.

It's all or nothing in the battle of good and evil.

In the end, good wins over evil.

PS- this word "Luciferian" doesn't mean what most think it means.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:27 | 6229914 nowhereman
nowhereman's picture

The bible was never meant to be read by us plebes, that's why God created Jimmy Swagert and Earnest Angley to translate it's meaning for us.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:31 | 6229924 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

Funny- but sadly many would think that's a true statement.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 16:49 | 6230933 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

I don't really care for fiction created by ancient sand dwelling goat fuckers so that they could control the other sand dwelling goat fuckers.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229265 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Great question to ask Christine. She is happy to do the numerology breakdown for us.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:59 | 6229318 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Same as with the Mayan calendar. Lots of different cycles all aligning in a 4th Turning kind of way create the opportunity to "never let a crisis go to waste."

See Herb Stein's "Law of Unsustainability" for details.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:16 | 6229381 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

"How long has the globalist/NWO Zionist plan been in place?"

Since work on the Talmud began in Babylon- culminating in the Protocols.

"Why did they pick 2015/2016"

Because the time is ripe.

But what follows will decidedly not work out in their favor.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:23 | 6229403 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

I just think the Central Bankster Ponzi scheme is unravelling faster than they anticipated and so are moving ahead at reckless speed.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:27 | 6229411 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

I think it's all going according to plan, for both sides- good and evil.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 16:31 | 6230047 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

You have to be pretty naive to believe there are two sides

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:43 | 6229471 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Because the time is ripe.

Indeed

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:52 | 6229510 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

You got it, brother!

“Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.- Revelation 14:15

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2014:6-20

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 14:02 | 6230194 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

This book gives great insight into the past sequence and why the time is now...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mystery-Shemitah-000-Year-Old-Americas-ebook/d...

(I can't make this hyper-link, try cut & paste)

 

Yes, anyway the timeline is this:   Rev 5 v1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. (relevant thing is the scroll written front and back)   Rev 6 v1  Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, "Come and see."   This happened in 1889 by my reckoning, an unpublicized meeting of wealthy men, bankers, Jews, who committed themselves to the Zionist agenda, that is, coordinated use of money and power to establish the Jewish state in Palestine. Essentially putting in motion the precursors to WW I, Bolshevik Revolution, US Federal Reserve, Media dominance, etc.   2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.   So, as on one side of the scroll everything that Cahn describes as related to the economic effects of the Shemitah are happening, on the other side of the scroll this is happening. The signal event of the 1st horseman is the Russian Revolution. This took 28 years (4 Shemitahs corresponding to the 4 legs of a horse) to come to completion.   3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come and see."

4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
  The great sword being the atomic weapons age, 4 Shemitahs later, 1945. 5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come and see." So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine."
  Corresponds to the end of Bretton Woods, the final abandonment of any pretense to back currency with gold, silver, anything of value. So (1973, 4 Shemitahs from 1945) when the great disparity of wealth between the elites and the working people began to grow, and the advent of 3rd world famines.

7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, "Come and see." 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth. ( 911, naturally, 4 Shemitahs from 1973)   9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.   Al Queda and ISIS really get on a roll. ISIS is USA/Mossad created & armed and will morph into the Beast ridden (controlled) by the Harlot described in Rev 17.  So now that the 4 horsemen are finished, this thing progresses at the rate of the Shemitah, this seal opened in 2008, same time as the 2008 meltdown/Lehman Bros Bankruptcy.   12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"   So, if you've followed me so far, you see the 6th seal opens in about 3 months...I love the smell of brimstone in the morning... With the 70th week of Daniel opening in 2022... And as an added bonus, The year of Jubilee starts in September of this year and runs through September of 2016, you know, the 49 year cycle of land redemption from the Jewish Lunar Calendar...This time it's shaping up to be a doozy of a war.  

 

 

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 14:05 | 6230203 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

No matter how many times you repeatly post it:

IT'S STILL WRONG.

Cahn is a con, a charlatan.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 14:23 | 6230276 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

I have a lot of respect for your postings, and I'm quite surprised to hear you say that.

I'd appreciate it if you would elaborate.

Pardon the multiple postings, but with Marshall Swing and Beginning and End all claiming the 70th week begins this year, I'm compelled to offer the counter view.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 15:28 | 6230452 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

I appreciate that.

What I'm saying is, that in even that brief summary, there are many errors.

While the Shemitah (Jubilee) year (50th year) would be a great indicator of a coming debt pardon or other financial harbinger, the lack of a calendar that accurately traces back to the Old Testament is concerning. I've studied historical chronology- there is a "Jewish" calendar, but it can't be taken as reliable, due to the Roman destruction of the Temple in appoximately 70 AD. I say approximately, because even those who dedicate their lives to the study of historical chronology can't agree. We could be off by at least 9 years. So to write a book claiming, with a certainty that these things will come to pass this Autumn streches credibilty.

Remember the Biblical maxim: "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36 

That hasn't changed.

Having said that, I believe there is an extremely strong likelihood that this Autumn through next Spring will usher in the final days of the Sixth Seal (Revelation 6), with WW3 beginning sometime in this period. But that conclision is based on signs, not "dates."

Remember what Jesus said about interpreting the signs of the times:

"When it is evening, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.'  "And in the morning, 'There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?" - Matthew 16:2,3

That hasn't changed, either.

The other "mistakes" (being kind here) Cahn makes are that the Four Horsemen could easily be seen, to the discerning eye, to have begun their ride as early as the 1st century- with the White Horse of conquest signifying the expansion of the World Power, Rome; Rome was followed by 10 kingdoms that grew from it's displacement. And from these 10 kings rose a "Global Rome", that is- The British Empire. That expanded into the US World Superpower- so the ride of of the White Horse, signifying Conquest continues to this day (Revelation 6:2) The White Horse signifying conquest is followed by a Red Horse signifying War, with a Great Sword- at the behest of Conquest, wars and battles took a greater and greater toll throughout history, ramping up to WW1 and WW2 as examples of that "Great Sword." The final 2 Horsemen follow Horse 3 (Black, signifying Famine) & 4 (Pale; Pestilence & Death), as pestilence, famine and death are preceded by conquest and war.

Revelation 6:12-16 refers to WW3, which will culminate in the final batle (Armageddon) which follows it.

Think of Revelation Chapter 6 as a summary of the Chapters which follow it.

If you continue to read Revelation, you will see with absolute certainty the identities of the characters that will be instrumental in this time which we live in- the Beast out of the Sea (with 7 heads & 10 horns), the Beast out of the Earth (with 2 horns), the Image of the Beast, Babylon the Great Whore, 666, etc.

Cahn does not understand this, and so I call him a charlatan and a con.

I can get into all of this much more deeply, if you are interested.

PS- I've studied, taught and written on this for ~5 decades, which is why I can spot incorrect information.


Wed, 06/24/2015 - 16:15 | 6230652 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I perceive that you haven't read Cahn's book. Most of my post is my own perspective on what Cahn doesn't say.

I've been dead certain that the 1st horseman activated with the Bolshevic Revolution, the 2nd in 1945 and the 3rd sometime in the '60s or 70s for about 20 years now. Cahn only deals with the Shemitah (7 yrs) and the Jubilee, tying events to these cycles, and without giving a firm timeline to future events. Cahn agrees that the dates are uncertain for the reasons you point out, but argues that the events reasonably argue his case. I maintain that with the events on both sides of the scroll in agreement, a more accurate prediction can be made. So I agree with you, it's signs, not dates.

His book, however, dovetails perfectly with the seals up until now. Cahn doesn't make this connection. (And my emails to him don't make it past the front office censors.)

Actually, all of Rev 17 & 18, when taken together show an exact picture of where we're heading, provided that one has absorbed 'The Islamic Anti-Christ' (Joel Richardson, 2006) where he accuratly predicts the rise of ISIS as precurser to the political beast. I recommend it, or watch his recent 700 club interview at least. Blew Robertson away.

Lastly, Seals, Bowls and Trumpets are not all the same. Bowls and Trumps are the same. The 7th seal is the 70th week, which encompasses the Bowls and Trumps. So any earthquake hitting this year would be regional, not global, as in the last Trump 'quake. So if no 'quake is the black swan event for this Shemitah financial meltdown later this year, I'll owe you a deep apology, but if my expectations are correct, you'll have some reconsidering to do.

Good luck either way, I'll see you on the other side.

(EDIT) And also, I agree that Rev 6 12-16 is pretty confusing, but I think it's a bit of hyperbole, as were the preceeding 6 seals.

So just to be clear, if there's a charlaton involved, it's me, not Cahn.

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 16:36 | 6230871 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

The point on trying to tie specific events to the 4 Horsemen is that you could pick virtually any event that seemed like a candidate, and come up with an interpretation. It doesn't hold water, because there are too many events that have occured since the 1st century that would be candidates. Therefore, the 4 horsemen must be interpreted as a summary of events- and that ties in perfectly with the spirit of Revelation 6- an historic portrayal of post-resurrection events of conquest (and their aftermath) leading up to the Apocalypse.

You're making the same error with Revelation 13 & 17, which describe a 7 headed, 10 horned Beast out of the Sea. Perhaps you'll see how much you're missing by looking at the overwhelming evidence:

The Beast out of the Sea

 “And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?" The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world. He who has an ear, let him hear.” – Revelation 13:2-9

 The Seven Heads of the Beast out of the Sea of Revelation:

1. Egypt (3150?1070 BC; 1550-1070 BC as uncontested “superpower”)

2. Assyria (Syria; 911 – 627 BC)

3. Babylon (Iraq; 626-539 BC; can not be 8th King)*

4. Medo-Persia (Achaemenid Empire) (Iran; 550-330 BC)

5. Greece (336-30 BC)

6. Rome- (27 BC-476 AD) - (Can not be 8th King)*

Between the 6th and 7th head: The Ten Horns (empires) made possible by the collapse of the Roman Empire, see “Ten Horns” below

7. British Empire, leading to its Image, the United States of America.

 *- see Rev 17:10-11; Rev 13:3; has to be one of the first five, excluding Babylon (Isaiah 13:19-20; Jeremiah 25:12), so it can only be Egypt, Assyria, Medo-Persia, or Greece. Later we will determine which of these is the 8th king.

NOTE: This interpretation is confirmed in the book of Daniel- compare the Beasts closely:

 The Four Beasts of Daniel:

 “And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another.  “The first was like a lion and had the wings of an eagle. I kept looking until its wings were plucked, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man; a human mind also was given to it.  “And behold, another beast, a second one, resembling a bear. And it was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth; and thus they said to it, ‘Arise, devour much meat!’  “After this I kept looking, and behold, another one, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird; the beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.  “After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.” –Daniel 7:3-7

 

The first beast of Daniel is the same as the third head of the beast out of the sea of Revelation, as follows:

 

  1. Babylon (Iraq; 626-539 BC)
  2. Medo-Persia (Achaemenid Empire; 550-330 BC)
  3. Greece (336-30 BC)
  4. Rome- (27 BC-476 AD)

 

Do you see how the two beast match each other's descriptions?

Like I said, I can get into much more as well, but you're wrong about the Great Whore- Babylon the Great, in Revelation 17 & 18, too- that is the Global Financial System. Pay attention to the clues- it is describing ONE ENTITY, that most christians think is something like "False religion", "Catholic church", "Israel" etc. But the clues given, if you pay attention, say otherwise:

 

“The kings of the earth committed adultery with her”   

 What entity has committed adultery with the kings of the earth? Religion, or the Financial System?

“the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

What entity has enabled the merchants of the earth to grow rich? Religion, or the Financial System?

“where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth!” 

What entity has enabled the transportation industry to grow rich? Religion, or the Financial System?

“your merchants were the world’s great men”  

What entity has enabled the merchants to become “great men?” Religion, or the Financial System?

“By your magic spell all the nations were led astray”

What’s the greatest spell that has ever been used on mankind? Religion, or Fiat currency, fractional reserve banking, derivatives, stocks, bonds, etc?

“When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury”

What “luxury” does Religion have? Very little compared to the Financial System.

Now, ask yourself- What “luxury” does the global financial system have? More than anyone else!

The identity of Babylon the Great, the Great Whore who rides upon the backs of the Kings of the Earth (Beast out of the Sea) is clearly not any "religion", or even "Israel"- it’s obviously the Global Financial System.

PS- I'd be glad to provide an email if you choose to correspond further, to be respectful of ZH. Just ask!

 

 


 

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 18:11 | 6231122 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

I can't agree more that the Whore is the global financial system, but there's more to the ZATO, USSA, etc, empire than just financial...see the protocols...wickedness in every quadrant.

Joel Richardson makes a good arguement for the kings being leaders of muslim nations who give their allegence to ISIS, also an interesting take on the identities of Daniel's image. He contends that Rome was not the legs of Iron because the Roman Empire didn't (for the most part) occupy the same geography as the previous 3 kingdoms. His contention is that the Ottoman empire was the kingdom of iron, and the renewed Ottoman empire is the feet of clay and iron, (Shia/Sunni divide). If that were the case, the empowerment of Jihadism in general fits the Whore riding (controlling) the beast makes sense. I recommend his book again. He defends his position astutely in 'Mideast Beast', which addresses many of your opinions.

Since we share the same purpose in our postings and actually agree on so many points, I'd invite you to send a blank (or not) mail to : ccstalnaker@juno.com

(Edit) Whore not beast, sorry.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 18:22 | 6231207 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

Thanks!

Glad you've got  identity of the Great Whore of Babylon figured out.

I'll be in touch.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 17:32 | 6231078 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

thanks for these quotes:

Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?" - Matthew 16:2,3

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36 


It is the enormous hubris of mankind which allows it to think that there is nothing mankind can't know except
"
that day or hour."

When will man learn that the only way to God is the empirical way and that the Bible, the a priori way, may be full of nice quotes but is basically a dead-end and self-reinforcing way?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 18:32 | 6231177 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

Because the Bible is breathed by God Himself.

It foretold hundreds of past events before they occured, and there are very few events that it foretells that haven't occured yet, culminating in Christ's return.

The troubles we are now seeing in this world were accurately described in Bible prophecy:

1. A global financial system that controls the Governments of the world (Babylon the Great Whore- Revelation 17-19).

2. 7 world powers (the 7th being the British Empire- which empowered the rise of the US in its Image). (Revelation 13 & 17)

3. An 8th (and final) world power (Iran & its allies) that, in WW3, will defeat both the 7th (UK/US), and destroy Babylon the Great Whore (the global financial system). However, their position as the Final World Power will be short lived. (Revelation 17)

4. The return of Christ in the final battle. (Revelation 19)

If you are paying attention to world events, especially with regard to the global financial system and it's near-collapse, and the waning power of the 7th world power (UK/US), then you will realize that the Bible warned us through these signs that we are very close to the time when Jesus Christ will return.

Or, you can ignore these, and call them "coincidences."

PS-If you doubt that the Bible is the revealed word of God, this reply should give you pause to question your conclusion thus far.

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 20:41 | 6231644 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

You are of the most recent batch of Christians who have believed exactly what you believe since the week after Christ was crucified.  If he actually lived and was crucified and the account is true.

Christians have believed in the 'second coming' for 2000 years; and they have also believed that Christ would appear anon;  in their life-times because they were such good Christians.  Now you are marching with that banner and to that drum.

Of course, you don't see what you're doing.  You can't because you are a person of ego.  Of hubris.

I believe in a Creator.  One who is responsible for everything.  I believe the Bible is accredited to the Creator, but that we are charged with picking the wheat from the chaff out of that tome.  I don't think you have. 

So here's where I'll part ways with you, Mr or Ms "My way or the highway." 

I'm not sure when Christians started to believe in "my way or the highway," but i'm pretty sure it's responsible for our fuked up planet.

And today's threat of nuclear Apocalypse.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 22:52 | 6232004 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

We are not charged with picking the wheat from the chaff from that tome. According to that tome, God will separate the good from the wicked (wheat from chaff) in the final days.

Thu, 06/25/2015 - 00:26 | 6232269 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

English Standard Version

Deuteronomy 30:15

"See, I have set before you today life and good,death and evil."

King James Bible

See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

If you don't think that choosing between good and evil behavior is what belief in God is all about, you are commenting on too many topics.

But it sure explains American Christianity to a tee.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 22:45 | 6231981 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

My neighbor's dog had anal sex with your god.

Then they 69ed each other and no one could tell where the circle ended. 

It was a never ending dogodogodogod

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 22:45 | 6231982 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

My neighbor's dog had anal sex with your god.

Then they 69ed each other and no one could tell where the circle ended. 

It was a never ending dogodogodogod

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 22:45 | 6231983 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

My neighbor's dog had anal sex with your god.

Then they 69ed each other and no one could tell where the circle ended. 

It was a never ending dogodogodogod

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:35 | 6229238 mog
mog's picture
Putin Strikes Back: Cuts Ukraine Gas Discount

You just gotta admit it.

Putin's got style.

The jugular every time and hurrah for that.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:39 | 6229263 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Myself I would be charging the Ukraine extra as they are a "risky" customer.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:44 | 6229750 Anglo Hondo
Anglo Hondo's picture

Not risky at all;  they gotta pay before delivery these days.

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:35 | 6229239 Stimorolgum
Stimorolgum's picture

Like a game if chess

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:42 | 6229279 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

No more like a dance in slow motion. Going no where trying to look impressive.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:36 | 6229246 suteibu
suteibu's picture

If Ukraine can just hold out for 2 more years - two more harsh, bitter cold winters - John McCain promises that the US will supply all of their gas.

 

Just 2 more years........

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:40 | 6229270 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Maybe John will send them some blankets in the mean time.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:28 | 6230092 HopefulCynical
HopefulCynical's picture

Smallpox blankets, maybe.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:29 | 6230093 HopefulCynical
HopefulCynical's picture

Hmmmm. Single click, double post.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:44 | 6229284 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Building facilities and ships at that scale in 2 years?

Seems like a legit plan.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:51 | 6229295 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Being an absurd, lying, loud-mouth dipshit is what makes John McCain, John McCain. 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:53 | 6229301 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Putin better be careful  -Mccain will send some of our ISIS boys from the CIA over to make his life miserable. 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:01 | 6229328 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

I am sure Putin will handle IS better than the US, EU or every other country has done.

Just give him a chance.

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:17 | 6229383 Freddie
Freddie's picture

ISIS - all driving new Toyota pickups from Al Goldberg's Toyota dealership in Langley, Virginia.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:42 | 6229741 petkovplamen
petkovplamen's picture

Yeah, Putin will actually fight them. Unlike Obama who arms them.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:55 | 6229799 farflungstar
farflungstar's picture

Russians won't do half-assed when dealing with ISIS if and when CIA sends them over there.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:05 | 6229341 Bub Ba
Bub Ba's picture

Putin would send those ISIS boys back alive but without their faces.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:04 | 6229338 Freddie
Freddie's picture

MEanwhile - McCain and the NeoCons and NeoLibs in CON-GresZ screw the American people with Obola on a daily basis.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:07 | 6230026 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

I read that

"Two Years Before the Gas"

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:37 | 6229252 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture
Commerzbank Suggests Greece Could Sell Gold Reserves to Make Payment

http://www.marketpulse.com/20150619/commerzbank-suggests-greece-could-se...

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:59 | 6229323 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

That's just funny.

Or isn't it ?

 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:07 | 6229351 suteibu
suteibu's picture

The joke is all contained in the word "suggests." 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:27 | 6229913 HowdyDoody
HowdyDoody's picture

There's gold to steal? I am surprised it hasn't been airlfted out for 'safe keeping'

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:38 | 6229256 sudzee
sudzee's picture

Energy giants continue to sign pipeline deals with Gazprom as EU extends sanctions on Russia. At some point EU gonna see a giant energy squeeze and a choice between US influence and an eastern pivot. Putin still playin chess.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 16:39 | 6230894 researchfix
researchfix's picture

It will be easy to decide between gas from Russia and hot air from US.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:46 | 6229287 Laddie
Laddie's picture

These attacks on Russia by the Rothschild controlled governments are quite serious. The Russian people may be harmed, somewhat, by this EVIL perpetrated by the same Tribe that ran the government of Georgia, hell they were from ISRAEL! How did the Televitz cover that story? EVIL Russia and EVIL South Ossetia in an UNPROVOKED attack on poor little innocent Georgia. Russia took care of the job in a quite nice fashion. I admired their work it was superb.

Despite my reservations about SOME of Mr Putin's actions trying to appease the Tribe over the last few years he really is a dynamic leader and he is not AT ALL like the USSA and the rest of the Rat Pack. He, alone of all Russian leaders, settled the hash of the Chechens, and that is REMARKABLE!

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:10 | 6229357 Freddie
Freddie's picture

They murdered 25 million Christian Russians from about 1917 to 1939.   Probably another 40 million died in their WW2 where all sides were backed by the banksters.

Go look at David Cameron's wiki.  His non goyim side of the family main job was financing wars for the Red Shield.

Wars = mass murder of innocent people for financial gain of the elites.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:08 | 6229834 antoninus wilson
antoninus wilson's picture

freddie your numbers mean goy nothing

never forget so we never repeat
spielberg knows the truth watch his schindlers list.
the book the story of anne frank is good as well

Auschwitz: NINE MILLION MURDERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEUY2sAyD1E

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 09:53 | 6229304 JohnGaltUk
JohnGaltUk's picture

Throw these deadbeat Ukrainians out of Europe already.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:05 | 6229337 Mike Masr
Mike Masr's picture

Bravo Putin, fuck the EU, fuck the NWO, and fuck Ukraine!

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:05 | 6229340 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

Get rid of that US taxpayer meme.  Money is created out of thin air in the trillions.   A few billion to Ukraine is relatively insignificant.  Those trillions are debasing everyone's dollars the world over.  Paying taxes in the US is nothing more than continuing an illusion of normality.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:15 | 6229371 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Yeah, I remember the good old days when printing plates were given out to America's surrogates, like the Shah of Iran. (I wonder if we ever got those back?)

Of course, now-a-days, such largess is just a keystroke ot two away.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:30 | 6229420 juicy_bananas
juicy_bananas's picture

Fat finger.  

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:17 | 6229378 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture
False flag? Charleston shooting happened during federal active shooter drill. Active shooter drill took place at same time as horrific Charleston shooting

(INTELLIHUB) — The existence and use of false flag terrorism across the world has long been established.

From the Reichstag fire to the 9/11 terror attacks, alternative researchers and open-minded individuals have proven that rogue elements of various governments, including the United States, can and do engage in false flag terror.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:29 | 6229413 juicy_bananas
juicy_bananas's picture

Charleston shooting happened while the Obamatrade TPP was being rammed through the Senate. 

 

We Reggie Loved some folks.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:37 | 6229451 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Ramped up racial divide, cover for handing America's sovereignty over to corporations, reigniting gun control....

....AND eliminating the last vestige of Americans fighting for state rights (Confederate flag).

If it wasn't a false flag, it sure delivers results.  A four-fer.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:21 | 6229395 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

I am a skeptic of everyone and everything to do with Ukraine.  I am a skeptic of the US on this.  I am a skeptic of Russia on this.

 

But I think cutting Ukraine's discount is entirely fair, and entirely Russia's business...and no one else's.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:23 | 6229399 juicy_bananas
juicy_bananas's picture

Putin fact.  Putin puts the "laughter" in manslaughter.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:02 | 6230012 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

and you put the jew in juicy

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:37 | 6229425 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Semi off topic:
http://nypost.com/2015/06/24/new-video-shows-isis-slowly-drowning-prison...

Rita Katz new blockbuster ISIS green screen video.  Where ISIS drowns it's victims.   Odd how the water is clouded and you cannot see anything under the water.

Is Rita being helped by Spielberg on this one?  

Next one will have ISIS prisoners eaten by dinosaurs with a McDonalds Happy Meal dinosaur toy tie in.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:35 | 6229442 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

I think if I were Russia I would do scenario #2 to expand North Stream as a bargaining chip to do TurkStream.

Once Turk Stream was in, I would use my influence to make it easy for the Gulf-State oil companies to build pipelines to the edge of my own...SyrianStream?   I would also be very friendly in allowing competitors to use my pipeline network at very, very low costs.

While it seems disadvantageous to help competitors compete on the surface, it accomplishes several things...

1) EU can't complain about energy vendor diversification.

2) Once connected competitors have huge disincentive to disconnect.

3) After connection is well established transport rates can be made to be advantageous to Russia's own energy sales.

 

This all requires Russia to initiate this as a loss-leader...with costs to be recouped by later repricing.

But what it does is strategically disarm EU & Gulf State objections and concerns that are behind the wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya.

Because wars only look like the cheap, quick fix until you're in them...then they get more and more expensive.

Competition always looks like a long expensive fight...but it always turns out to be unavoidable, and cheaper than a war.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:59 | 6230006 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

disagree

Russia should keep the price as high as the market will bear inviting other producers to invest in pipelines, ships and terminals to participate in the market.  

When the US with it's LNG production and Israel, having convinced the Gentiles to lay a pipe up the Adriatic Sea from their (huge) Leviathan find (Tel Aviv ran out of adjectives describing how big it is, in order to get other people to pay for the pipe) are sitting in their counting houses looking for somthing to buy on eBay and waiting for the cash registers to start ringing, along with all the other countries who have invested heavily in selling gas to Europe, that's when Russia should open the valves lower their price and have a gas jamboree--  a veritable beanfest to rival those of the Duchess  of Guermantes.

Isn't that how John D. Rockefeller got started?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:53 | 6229513 BI2
BI2's picture

About time if one truly understands the conflict with Russia >>> https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2015/03/17/the-truth-about-the-...

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 14:19 | 6230199 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

Still need correct your falsehood claim Scythians related to Khazars

Scottish Declaration of Independence informs otherwise:

Declaration of Arbroath:

                    http://jahtruth.net/scotdec.htm

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 10:54 | 6229515 markar
markar's picture

So with all this geo political maneuvering going on while Obozo fund raises and plays golf, anyone hear from our Secy of State, Lurch? Or, is  he still recovering from riding his bike with the training wheels off.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:14 | 6229597 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

There are more than 3 scenarios if you keep an eye on Macedonia and Albania.

Socialist-led coalition wins town hall elections in Albania

TIRANA, Albania — 

A coalition led by the governing Socialist Party has won three-fourths of mayoral elections in Albania, seen as a possible step toward improving its bid to launch membership negotiations with the European Union.

Erion Veliaj, a 35-year-old former social affairs minister, declared victory Tuesday in the race in the capital, Tirana. He defeated a candidate backed by incumbent Lulzim Basha of the opposition Democratic Party, who was not running again.

 http://www.kirotv.com/ap/ap/international/socialist-led-coalition-wins-t...

Who is Erion Veliaj?  He's mentioned here:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/11/233940.htm

State Department and USAID To Host Global Conference on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Human Rights and Inclusive Development

The U.S. Department of State and USAID will host the third Conference to Advance the Human Rights of and Promote Inclusive Development for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender (LGBT) Persons on November 12-14, in Washington, D.C. Leading U.S. government officials will speak at the event, including Counselor to the Secretary of State, Tom Shannon, and USAID Administrator Rajiv Shah.

The conference will bring together government officials, private funders, business leaders, scholars and activists from more than 30 countries to increase coordination, cooperation and resources dedicated to promoting and protecting the human rights of LGBT persons around the world, and to ensure full inclusion of LGBT persons in development assistance efforts.

 

The conference will broadly focus on diplomatic and foreign assistance strategies to address human rights violations and abuses that target LGBT persons, and to respond to social and economic exclusion of LGBT persons around the world. Included in specific issue-focused panels are discussions regarding: the specific needs of transgender persons; how to best engage faith communities to support the human rights of LGBT persons; and the best ways to integrate these priorities into development programs.

Thursday, November 13, 2014

9:00 a.m – 9:45 a.m. Opening session with remarks by USAID Deputy Administrator Al Lenhardt and Erion Veliaj, Minister, Ministry of Social Welfare and Youth, Albania

And then there's this:

Putin’s Gain May Be EU Loss in Balkan Vacuum, Ivanov Says

Russian President Vladimir Putin is getting an opportunity to expand his influence in the Balkans, said the leader of the Republic of Macedonia, a landlocked state in southeastern Europe.

Gjorge Ivanov, president of the former Yugoslav republic, said a failure by the European Union and NATO to provide some countries in the region with a path toward membership has cleared the way for Russia’s ambitions.

 

“Obviously, the EU forgot about geography,” Ivanov, 55, said in an interview in Bratislava, Slovakia on Sunday. “But Russia excels at geography.”

[...]

Ivanov didn’t offer any examples of what he said was Russia’s expanding presence. And while he warns of Putin’s growing influence, his premier, Nikola Gruevski, supports plans for a Russian gas pipeline to Europe that would run through Macedonia in an attempt to sideline an existing supply route through Ukraine.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-22/putin-s-gain-may-be-eu...

 And one more item:

The brave connection between the Jewish and the Albanian peoples continues today and grows even stronger. The Albanians were the first to condemn the kidnapping and murder of three boys in the West Bank (June 2014) and the horrible massacre (Nov 2014) in a Jerusalem synagogue. They stand in the forefront of countries supporting Israel in international forums such as the United Nations, Human Rights Council and UNESCO, and cooperate with us in a variety of fields, often under pressure and criticism from Arab and Muslim states. The State of Israel two years ago opened a resident embassy in Tirana, allocates funds and resources to assist and promote Albanian agriculture, encourages Israeli investors to explore Albania, delivers advanced technology in the fields of security and cyber, and sends experts in various fields to Albania to share Israeli knowledge.

 http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/righteous-albania/

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:25 | 6230087 Max Steel
Max Steel's picture

but that stream wil not pass through albania .

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 18:50 | 6231303 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Cue Gandalf

" YOU SHALL NOT PASS"

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 11:28 | 6229691 large_wooden_badger
large_wooden_badger's picture

From Russia, with love

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:23 | 6229903 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Epic Failure

waltz of pipeline

what a terrible, meaningless image that is!  Does the writer use 'waltz' because the the pipe enters Europe through the the old Austro-Hungarian Empire?

Even if he had used the more alliterative 'pipeline polka', we would still be left with the image of Tsapras snatching a cartoon pipe out of the arms of Petro Poroshenko and twirling away along the gold leaf of the Grand Ballroom of Zamek Warszawski.  

Moar suitable for Pixar than ZH.

EPIC FAILURE

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:25 | 6229907 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Not mentioned is the Coveralls Plan. Russia manufactures affordable, usable and durable winter clothing that is suitable for even Siberian winters. Order early in case the gas pipe goes limp this coming winter.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 12:30 | 6229920 JohnnyBGood
JohnnyBGood's picture

Is it me or does Putin, Texas and The U.S. Constitution seem to be on the same side when it comes to GOLD? It seems like Putin under Russia is planning to reimplement some kind of gold standard which in theory would be preferable to the current 'paper is money' Central Bank debt based financial slavery we have right now. So isn't it plausible that Putin just wants to put back into place what Nixon got rid of, The Gold Exchange Standard?

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:36 | 6230109 newsoutlet
newsoutlet's picture

Title should be not: "Putin strikes again" but rather "putin regime farts again" :D

ha ha ha

Anyway - putin regime economy continues to shrink and regions complain about decreasing budget and that they will soon run out of money. Nice!

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 13:58 | 6230177 Max Steel
Max Steel's picture

shrinking and will run out of money soon  ? haha baltic shoeboys are typical monolithic trolls . 

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 15:24 | 6230543 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

baltic shoeboys are typical monolithic trolls .

Sir, please, newsoutlet is most emphatically not a shoeboy. He is a honeydipper, from a long Latvian line of lavatory cleaners, and is deeply appreciated by his Polish employers. Do not insult his family heritage and tradition by calling him a shoeboy.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 14:05 | 6230204 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

While the granaries of the West overflow with the goodness of life

 putin regime economy continues to shrink 

Do you even read the the unvarnished economic news of ZH?

It seems that you come here with Putin on your mind and the desire for Putin up your arse.

The bottom line is that your lobotomy was a dismal failure.

Thu, 06/25/2015 - 02:08 | 6232457 onmail
onmail's picture

Waits & see who gets what.

Wed, 06/24/2015 - 15:32 | 6230587 Mike Masr
Mike Masr's picture
Ukrainian Crisis Discussed by Californian senator Dana Rohrabacher and US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power (video) on: June 24, 2015

“If that coup, meaning violent overthrow of an elected government, had not happened, we would not be in this situation and the Ukrainians would have been spared this,” US US Congressman from California Dana Rohrabacher stated.

The Ukrainian crisis started in 2014 when pro-European Union (EU) supporters, including radical nationalists, backed by Western powers, ousted elected President Viktor Yanukovych after he did not sign an association agreement with the EU.

In April 2014, the conflict escalated when the new government in Kiev launched a military operation against independence supporters in eastern Ukraine. The independence supporters have refused to recognize the new government arguing that the legitimate, democratically-elected Yanukovych government was removed by a violent coup.

The UN estimates the conflict has claimed more than 6,400 lives. Rohrabacher argued that the majority of the casualties are on the hands of the Ukrainian army.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4541393/ukrainian-crisis-discussed-senator

Thu, 06/25/2015 - 00:37 | 6232288 onmail
onmail's picture

That should have been done a year back.

The stupid Ukrainians (neo euroPeons) rather should have been denied gas totally , in view of trading with enemy idea.

Let them shiver , beg & peddle their daughters as hoes.

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