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Greece Invokes Nuclear Option: Tsipras Calls For Referendum
Update: Greek PM Alexis Tsipras has announced a referendum in a televised speech to the nation after another day of fractious negotiations with creditors closed without a deal.
The dramatic move comes after Athens rejected a proposal from the troika aimed at delivering some €16 billion in aid to Greece as part of an extension of the country's second bailout program.
- GREECE'S TSIPRAS SAYS CREDITORS POSED ULTIMATUM TO GOVT
- GREECE'S TSIPRAS SAYS CREDITORS PROPOSALS ARE AGAINST EU RULES
- TSIPRAS SAYS CREDITORS AIM TO HUMILIATE GREEK PEOPLE
- TSIPRAS SAYS WILL CALL REFERENDUM ON GREEK DEAL WITH CREDITORS
- TSIPRAS GREEK REFERENDUM WILL BE HELD ON JULY 5
- TSIPRAS SAYS HE NOTIFIED MERKEL, DRAGHI ON REFERENDUM PLAN
- TSIPRAS SAYS GREECE IS, AND WILL STAY PART OF EUROPE
- TSIPRAS SAYS GREECE NEEDS TO SEND DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE TO EU
Protothema now says the Greek parliament will meet on Saturday and a referendum will be called as early as next week. Whether this is simply a last minute attempt to put pressure on EU finance ministers ahead of Saturday's Eurogroup meeting remains to be seen, but one thing is for sure: Tsipras is playing a dangerous game with the ECB ahead of a difficult week that could very well see the imposition of capital controls.
???????? ????????? - ??????? ??? ?????????: ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????????? ?? ???? ????? http://t.co/J23WZiI8Cb
— ????? ???? (@protothema) June 26, 2015
More from Kathimerini:
The government is considering a referendum on the substance of the agreement, according to recent reports, during the enlarged meeting taking place from Friday night at the Maximos Mansion. The referendum is expected to be held next Sunday, while the prime minister has already informed the political leaders. The prime minister after returning from Brussels convened the extraordinary Governing Council at the Maximos Mansion, which after 23:00 turned into cabinet by attendance of ministers and party executives to discuss the latest developments and next steps in view of tomorrow's Eurogroup.
Earlier:
Protothema is reporting that Tsipras has confided in a fellow EU official that if the country's creditors insist on sticking to pension and VAT red lines and if Friday's bailout extension proposal (which the Greek government apparently views as a patronizing stopgap) is the troika's final offer, he is prepared to call for snap elections.
Via Protothema (Google translated):
The dramatic developments of the last few hours, following the government's move to reject the proposal of the creditors may conceal preparation for use of the popular verdict, a decision which is expected to be finalized in the next few hours if the lenders do not move from its rigid positions. According secure information protothema.gr, a few hours ago he Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras European leader confided in Eurozone member country adjacent friendly in Greece that the data are up to this moment is ready even to call early elections.
This revelation of thought by the Greek prime minister to the foreign leader can be interpreted in two ways: Either Mr. Tsipras is ready "plan B" if tomorrow the negotiation fails or leaked deliberately in order to exert indirect pressure on lenders to mitigate their requirements. Upon completion of the meeting Mr. Tsipras with Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande, the Greek side revealed that the Prime Minister pointed out to the leaders of Germany and France that does not understand why the institutions insist on so hard measures. The prime minister insisted his decision to reject the proposal of the creditors for a five-month extension of the existing agreement with a funding of 15.5 billion euros. "The proposal does not cover us, because the financial part of barely meets the needs for payment of installments to the lenders, not help anywhere else the economy," emphasized a close associate of Alexis Tsipras and adds: "We will not accept the proposal, as we said, we were waiting to bring us another proposal tomorrow."
Greece has rejected creditors' bailout extension proposal.
- GREECE SAID TO REJECT EU15.5B BAILOUT EXTENSION PROPOSAL: ANA
#Greece gov't rejects institutions' proposal for programme extension & funding of €15.5 bln (via @amna_news) #ec #ecb #imf #eurogroup
— Manos Giakoumis (@ManosGiakoumis) June 26, 2015
* * *
On Friday, the German press reported (and Bloomberg later confirmed) that Greece’s creditors had presented PM Alexis Tsipras with a document (essentially an outlining the following available funds that could theoretically be part of either an extension of the country’s second bailout or a third program (with the latter having been previously ruled out by the IMF and German lawmakers). The details are as follows:
- EU creditor proposal foresees EU8.7b in EFSF funds: official
- Creditor proposal foresees EU3.3b in SMP profits: EU official
- Creditor proposal foresees EU3.5b in IMF funds: EU official
As noted, if Greece receives €3.3 billion from SMP profits it will mean that the ECB has forfeited the money it made on the Greek bonds it purchased in the past, effectively allowing Athens to repay the central bank with its own money. Here's DB with some color:
There may be a more rapid disbursement option. EUR1.9bn of the EUR7.2bn stalled tranche is SMP profits. Releasing these funds might only involve a decision by finance ministers without necessarily consulting parliaments. Disbursing EFSF funds, on the other hand, requires the national approval process (e.g., the joint decision by the German Finance Minister and the Budget Committee, if not a full plenary vote). In other words, SMP profits could be disbursed at short notice. These would be sufficient to pay the EUR1.6bn owed to the IMF on Tuesday.
As for the EFSF funds, it's long been suggested that bank recap funds could be chanelled to Athens under the 'right' circumstances and apparently imminent default is as good an excuse as any. Citi has more on the EFSF funds:
The interim proposal would likely allow Greece to use part of the €10.9bn from the original Hellenic Financial Stability Fund (HFSF) designated for Greek bank recapitalization, and later transferred back to the EFSF/ESM. Various media outlets have reported on the possibility that around €9bn could be used for current expenditure, in line with our estimates of the financing needs of the Greek sovereign for 3Q. Although a unanimous agreement will be required at the ESM board level to redirect the resources away from its banking recapitalization objective, we believe that a deal is likely to be found. The release of such funds would allow an extension of the current programme for several months, while giving more time for creditors and the Greek authorities to complete the negotiations for a third aid programme. It could also convince the ECB to increase the T-bill ceiling and the SSM to raise the ceiling on the exposure of Greek banks’ to their sovereign. All this however remains conditional on the approval of the ‘interim’ package by the Greek Parliament as well as by various national parliaments (in Germany, the Netherlands and Finland among others).
German Chancellor Angela Merkel implored Tsipras to accept what she calls a “generous” offer and has been adamant that a deal must be struck by the time the market opens on Monday which effectively means that EU finance ministers will need to strike an agreement at tomorrow’s Eurogroup meeting which starts at 2 pm local time. “I spoke today about a very generous offer because we simply have moved a step toward Greece, also with respect to the February agreement,” Merkel said.
In the wake of this morning’s news, the rhetoric from Tsipras has only hardened with the Greek PM pledging to uphold the democratic values upon which the euro was founded and to not accept “blackmail” (which of course is rather ironic, considering Merkel said precisely the same thing with regard to the Greek on Thursday):
Document of proposals presented to the Greek side by the institutions is “worse than a memorandum,” ANA reports, citing Greek govt officials in Brussels.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras says he will defend the European Union’s founding principles of “democracy, solidarity, equality, mutual respect” as he seeks an agreement with international creditors to unlock aid for the country.
“These principles were not based on blackmails and ultimatum, and especially in these crucial times no one has the right to put in danger these principles,” Tsipras tells reporters in Brussels after an EU summit
“The Greek government will continue decisively to give the fight in favor of these principles, to continue to give the fight on behalf of the European people and of course on behalf of the Greek people,” he says.
Source in #Greece negotiations: "Not going well... Greeks backtracking significantly. Measures not credible. Don't know if there'll be deal"
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) June 26, 2015
Big concerns among creditors that Greek measures both unambitious & growth unfriendly. Will def be document for eurogroup. May not be agreed
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) June 26, 2015
For reference, here's a breakdown of what Greece's fiscal situation (i.e. budget deficit) looks like going forward:
* * *
Or, summarized:
»
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Different day, same TV show and channel.
depends .. sadly true we are here for entertainment ... but this is how waterboarding is done.... that is the ugly truth. Who is waterboarding who.. can't say yet.
http://just-a-thought-from-thinair.blogspot.com/
Then stop spending so much money and pay your bills, a$$hole. You aren't so special that everyone else in the world should pay for your excesses.
I like the throwing of Merkels and the EU's own words back at them. Hoping someone gets pissed and throws a hissy fit. May the Saga pick up steam ... Perhaps a Djisselbomb will go off or Scheuballs head will explode!
Time for a greek politician staple gun or jump off tall building suicide
So the market was up based on the hope provided by the bailout proposal but will it ignore the proposal being rejected like last time?
... Troika: "Bend over"
... Tsipras: "No!"
Troika: "Bend over"
... Tsipras: "No!...you bend over"
Troika: "No you bend over"
Russia-China: "you both bend over"
It's like watching a group of people play Russian Roulette with every chamber of the gun loaded
yes, now wake us when someone actually pulls the trigger.
Achtung!
Mein Deutsch-Brüders
Ist das not nicht dein derivatives crash.
Ues das is dien derivatives crash
or not,..
Please, the same fuckers that created the derivatives "market" are the same fuckers that will decided if there is a "default". Guess what? They are not going to kill themselves...
Greece will eventually come around. It is simply not feasible for them to leave the EU. The EU nation states have grown into a single highly complex symbiosis, and as Barosso and President Jean-Claude-Junker have wisely noted, what Europe desperately needs is more integration, not less. It is only through cooperation and further centralization of monetary and fiscal policy that Europe will recover from this temporary setback.
A turd wrapped in gift paper is still a turd.
Socialism is a disease that kills the healthy and the unhealthy with equal vigor.
Capitulation of Greece to the BRICS printers could be a historical milestone in the popular delusions of mankind.
Hold the Boat!
It's not Saturday, yet. Whadda we got, a new Red Line in the Sand?
I dare ya'! I double dare ya'!
Go for the throat! Triple Dog Dare em!... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZj3zOUZNs
Realize, these assholes have more than one definition of the word 'default':
Greece won't Default on Monday
The triple doublespeak is beyond belief.
the default will only come about once Greece descends into chaos via civil war/revolution - thats the only way this shitshow will end - guaranteed
I just found out that Tsipras is not relates to Pete Sampras.
Might as well play the baseline, he has held his own this far into the tournament.
Greece must let the sun set on the West and look for a sunrise in the East.
all is said, you ask people but you will stay, whatever the cost.
fuck you greek fucks, you like frenchs goats in 2005 voting no but sarkozy counter mesured to a yes...
WHOLE europe is a fucking scam, plan accordingly.
He did not say Greece will stay in the Euro monetary union. To me he's just stating, with that last line, the cultural, geographic fact that Greece is part of Europe.
This is the blackest fuckin swan I swear.
Goldman said the EU couldn't debauch their currency fast enough with the Greeks in. Isn't this just everyone following the script?
i announce the result of the vote to be a YES, we accept.
you will see....
He did not say Greece will stay in the Euro monetary union. To me he's just stating, with that last line, the cultural, geographic fact that Greece is part of Europe.
of course saying we stay in europe is just like saying i will move my arm from my elbow to my ass, you can tell what you want but cannot disconnect your arm and plug it elsewere on your body... geography
they will vote no but a yes will be media displayed, just because grexit = neo drakma = hyperinflation +h24 = more monetary problem = real, i mean serious reel problems they did not faced YET.
Give them the rope.
One way or another they will hang themselves.
And of course, as with all referenda, the outcome will depend on how they word the question. If it is made clear that further austerity is inevitable when staying in the Eurozone, the Greek people will probably vote for out. If the question is simply whether they want to remain in the Eurozone, the answer would be to vote for in.
you mean Corporisitsm. Get your definitions straight.
The State is the biggest corporation .... the voters have common stock .... the government employees have preferred stock !
The EU is a turd
wrapped in a rubber
wrapped in a bearded transsexual wedding invitation
wrapped in a Utopian wet dream
The U.S. / German brand of corporate-fascism murders millions for exorbitant profits.
dude u have no fucking clue what socialism is. all what millimetric biusonian brain was injected with was scaremongering propaganda about a system which had nothing to do
with the real socialism, ask any healthy, educated mind who lived in that system if that was real socialism or fascist statism. Now what Bisonia has is corporatist fascism.
go back to the reading desk and educate yourself before opening your cakehole.
but it is not feasible for them to pay that stupid debt. There are too much hungry and furious people already. If more austerity is forced, this will trigger revolts everywhere and very probably Greeks will turn to the Golden Dawn. There would be no one else left. You can only force people so far, but when they have no more to loose, they will bite back. As I already said somewhere, if people in ancient Egypt got too hungry, they would even overthrow the pharaoh (the God on earth for them otherwise). When their desperation reached such levels that death was preferable, no one was able to stop them. The banksters keep pushing, but history tells us that you can brainwash people only as long as you give them at least something in return (as the proverbs goes: the emperor must provide bread and games). When there is no more bread, the emperor is in a very big trouble.
I think Tsipras is about to pull a fast one on the Troika. Consider his flagrant butt-kissing: "Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras says he will defend the European Union’s founding principles of “democracy, solidarity, equality, mutual respect..." <-- Nobody in their right mind makes this kind of statement with sincerity. And then he threatens to pull a snap election? What kind of leader folds when he knows he's playing a rigged hand? BOTTOM LINE: TSIPRAS IS "KEEPING THEM TALKING." HE'S BUYING TIME FOR A SURPRISE.
He's not a butt-kisser, but only being cynical. I believe he's really pissed off and is gonna proceed with a referendum.
Consider this: when Varoufakis told NO to those same people in that same room they threw him out. Now they want to throw Tsipras out for telling them 'hell no' and the only one eligible to decide is his boss - the people of Greece.
Re-read his line again.
"Consider this: when Varoufakis told NO to those same people in that same room they threw him out. Now they want to throw Tsipras out for telling them 'hell no'"
The Greek PM seems to understand the European banks are screwed if Greece won't be a good little debt slave.
Who Loaned Greece the Money? Greece owes a lot of money to a lot of people. Check out who loaned the money.
Information Date: 2012 February. Source: EBA (Eurpoean Banking Authority)
They like Soccer but can't afford a Ball... so what do they kick???
Their external debt load is almost non existent due to all the refinancing deals ... they are mostly going bankrupt because they haven't balanced their budget.
Your post is not credible. It says in the article that most of the "generous" offer would go to pay the banks.
That's just accounting. They have to pay the interest to get bailout funds, on the net they are only getting money.
Some top notch sarcasm there MDB.
Heck yeah. Problem tho: I never know whether to upvote or downvote him. What has more meaning for him? If I upvote, does he just assume I'm a stupid assclown who actually believes what he's saying? If I downvote, does that just indicate to him that I don't understand sarcasm? SO I usually just leave him alone.
MDB wrote:
Greece will eventually come around. It is simply not feasible for them to leave the EU. The EU nation states have grown into a single highly complex symbiosis, and as Barosso and President Jean-Claude-Junker have wisely noted, what Europe desperately needs is more integration, not less. It is only through cooperation and further centralization of monetary and fiscal policy that Europe will recover from this temporary setback.
There's only a single small/big problem my friend... No one want it!! French don't like Germans, Germans don't like French, and both don't like Italians etc etc. All the european system was created by a really "small circle" of people.
4 U
a really "small circle" of jerks. fixed it 4 U.
You mean the EU is just another circle jerk?
Thanks for reprinting the official EU Brussels propaganda hand-out. It reassures us all that God's in his heaven and all's right with the world.
Damn, you're good!
Sure, sure, but when $600 trillion in promises are declared null and void, it's going to shake the faith in a lot of other promises.
Laws of Physics...Actually you are an optimist, aren't you?
The Formal Declaration of Default is rather MOOT.
If you purchased insurance on your car, let's say, for Underinsured Motorists (Bad risks), and then your car was totalled just what would you do? Will you forgive the claim or make a claim upon that which you insured?
Well the Creditors of the Greek Debt are LARGE BANKS. If they realize a loss due to a Greek DEFAULT, and since they are FRACTIONALLY RESERVED, the loss realized will make the LARGE BANKS INSOLVENT and make them a CREDIT RISK also.
So if you, as a LARGE BANK, are destroyed and made Insolvent as a result of the DEFAULT and you have been PAYING INSURANCE, a Credit Default Swap, on the position, aren't you going to make a claim?
And if your LARGE BANK collaspses as a result of any NON DECLARATION OF DEFAULT then you, as a LARGE BANK, cannot pay out your Loans' Servicing Charges, much more the any of the Prinicipal, on those loans that your Bank has initiated. Yes..The basic way that you received any RESERVES in the first place is that YOU, as a LARGE BANK, also BORROWED, from the CENTRAL BANK,
The wonder of Fractional Reserve is that it makes Banks exorbinantally Rich during times of Economic Growth due to the LEVERAGE. Conversely during times of Economic Decline that same LEVERAGE can make the same instituition a PAUPER rapidly.
So when your LARGE BANK FAILS as a result of the Greek Default, other LARGE BANKS will also fail because YOUR LARGE BANK cannot make payments on your loan and the other LARGE BANKS are also just as Fractionally Reserved.
Thus there is systemic cascading failure IF the Default is NOT RECOGNIZED. Or there is systemic cascading failure IF the Default IS RECOGNIZED.
THEREFORE the issue of whether or not an "Official Default" is declared is MOOT. It is meaningless.
But when this happens then LARGE BANKS will LOSE FAITH AND CONFIDENCE in other LARGE BANKS and will refuse to EXTEND THEM CREDIT!!!
We are back to the SQUARE ONE, the BASE of ALL POSITIONS, and Credit Freeze II happens, just like Credit Freeze I happened in 2008.
But this time there is not enough Capital in all of the World to restore confidence and RECAPITALIZE the Banks. THAT IS WHAT QE, all of them, was all about.
So when you go into your grocer and try to use your ATM Card, it WILL NOT WORK as the Grocer's Bank does not know whether or not to trust the solvency of your Bank.
IT WILL BE SYSTEMIC FAILURE. We were on the abyss of this, within HOURS OF THIS, back in 2008. Did you know that?
NOTHING WAS FIXED...NOT ONE GOD DAMNED THING. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT OPTIMIST?
Cash will be King for about 6 to 8 weeks, There is only $800 Billion in Currency to back up $10 Trillion in Demand Accounts. If you have Physical Cash you will be able to get a lot for nothing.
Of course the Fed will OVERREACT and they will turn on the Printing Presses 24/7 and produce GOBS OF PHYSICAL CASH in order to satiate the demand.
But all the while this is happening the FOREIGN GOVERNMENT CENTRAL BANKS, who have most of the $12 Trillion outstanding, existing in their VAULTS as Physical Cash, will also be seeking to divest it as the systemic failure has DESTROYED THEM.
And thos PHYSICAL DOLLARS will come flooding in across our borders to buy up anything that they can.
And you had best have Gold and Silver when that happens.
Can you spell H Y P E R I N F L A T I O N ???
The very best action for the US Government to take when Credit Freeze II happens is NO ACTION AT ALL. It will self correct in Six Weeks if they DO NOT ACT when all of that Foreign Cash floods across our borders.
But you can be assured that THEY WILL REACT...and fuck us all in doing it.
Physical dollars do not have to flood anywhere in order for hyperinflation to occur. All that has to happen is for no one, not even americans, to accept them anymore. How will everyone pay their taxes you say? The same way the greeks and corporations already do (i.e. they won't).
get long sharecropping, black markets, and guillotines, beat the rush.
Oh I am not claiming that Physical Dollars have to.
I am just claiming that it will happen...just like what happened in the Weimar Republic Germany back in 1921.
This time is a little different because it is the Foreign Central Banks that will be acting as the German Peasants as they have stashed away those Physical Dollars, instead of inside of mattresses, they stuffed their VAULTS...as they are RESERVES.
And it will happen and unfold in the manner that I wrote.
Credit Freeze II is just around the corner.
And the issue of whether or not an "Official Default" is declared is MOOT.
We are cooked and I am offering up Franchises to Guillotines ~R~ UsTM and Gallows ~R~ UsTM as I write.
I think that is going to be the Growth Industry in the near future.
I was thinking of issuing an IPO. Think that it will sell? Beat the rush as you wrote.
And to those who junked the post without putting up an alternative proposition??? You have not a clue as to what is about to happen. I feel very, very sad for you.
Do not worry about the weak-minded, the lazy, and the cowards etc. Man has constantly entered periods where he thought himself "above Nature" and not subject to Nature's rules only to see the laws of physics and Nature come back with a vengence.
Yes, chance will always favor the prepared, evolve or die...
same as it ever was...
Tall Tom: Thanks for the education. Truth is hard to define in Europe and one will not know the real effects of contagion/confidence until it is tested.
1921-1923
2008-Present
Tom, when those dollars come rushing ashore, what are they going to buy? The gold is gone. They will buy Treasuries. The ten-year will go negative yield briefly before everyone comes to their senses and storms the CME, NME, etc. We have seen this movie before.
Except this time, because the fed owns most of the float, there is a shortage of supply. We could actually see Bernoccio's wet dream happen real-time. .gov may have to send everyone checks to rapidly create enough supply of treasuries to prevent a global panic.
Those US Dollars will buy up everything that is not bolted down. They will go into commodoties, food, grains, beef, all Metals, anything and everything which can be shipped out of the Nation.
Push Price Inflation for everyday necessities will soar. We have seen this before in 1979.
Treasuries only were in demand when Volcker allowed the Interest Rates to float to FMVs.
When that percentage exceeded the Inflation Rate by roughly 2% the bleeding stopped and price inflation was placed under control.
Unfortunately a rise in Interest Rates which will spark that move to USTa will make our Government insolvent.
Thus we will continue to repress the Interest Rates and repudiate all debts and unfunded liabilities with Currency Inflation. Afterwards we enter into a Deflationary Hell that will last for decades if there is no Hot War...which there will be a Hot War and it will end it all.
There is NO HOPE.
What I forsee in my Crystal Ball is the darkness of an abyss from which there is no escape. I am sorry.
As a person with silver, a speck of gold, and expecting to purchase a shitload more gold, I wouldn't view deflation as Hell. I'd be more concerned about purchasing shit too early. As prices drop, relative to the value of gold/silver, I would ultimately be in the catbird seat, at least as far as I can reason. (I may be wrong, I often am.)
The way I see it is that we're going to see a flash crash in September that will obliterate pretty much all finance. Having solid funds, silver/gold/FMJLead, wil be a source to carry over to the next form of commerce...whatever it is.
I feel that I'm in a particular niche that won't result in me being laid off (I've done a lot of thinking on this and my salary was heavily devalued by me when I took my position of Controller. I'm the cheapest bitch in the company.) What we do cannot be outsourced, we mine rock and produce ready mix cement, retail sell steel products, produce steel fabrications and recycle cement. Some industries are inherently insulated from globalization.
My wife wants to tile the house, I want gold. My 7.5% mortgage is being refi'd to 3.8 and I'm pulling a new mortgage off $100k on my $30k balance. The tile wil cost about $8k, guess where the rest goes?
I plan to keep about $10k in SertaBank because there will be that two to three week period when folding FRN's will be the almighty power. I plan to use each and every one within that window. Afterwards, a couple of months to a couple of years later, when the new system stabilizes, my gold will be the method of reestablishing a personal monetary base.
And when the Chinese or Russians come through this particular area, I'll be the first one to draw a map straight to DC for them.
Do not worry about the weak-minded, the lazy, and the cowards etc.
Somebody has to look out for them.
That is why both you and I were gifted.
We are not supposed to use those gifts to hurt the animals. (Yes I know that they piss you off. At times I feel like bombing them. But I bomb everybody. Shit I unloaded on a post below.)
Don't hurt the animals.
And that is my Bleeding Heart past showing...I know...I know.
It is funny as I aged I became more and more like Archie Bunker. I now understand him. LOL.
+1. Thank you Law of physics. The people that brought us the DFIs (derivative financial instruments) and FDI (financial debt instruments), real weapons of mass destruction, are not gonna die without taking a large number of us with them.
+1. Thank you Law of physics. The people that brought us the DFIs (derivative financial instruments) and FDI (financial debt instruments), real weapons of mass destruction, are not gonna die without taking a large number of us with them.
Tsipras is going to get the ZWO treatment.
Avoid hot tubs, home remodeling and airplanes.
Unlikely, its a bit like this ;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I
"It's like watching a group of people play Russian Roulette with every chamber of the gun loaded"
Its more like watching them play thinking its real, but every chamber is empty, and nobody's paying attention to the fuse going towars the dynamite on the other side of the room
No, it's sort of like we're all infront of an anti-aircraft gun, and we're playing russian roulette; no one is aware of the cannon pointed at us, the players. We're all worried about the whether the chambers in the pistols are loaded.
Let's name it European roulette
. Russia-China: "you both bend over"
No. If Putin weighed in, his position would be more along the lines of that espoused in this 18-second clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcgUDoV_M
That's hilarious.
Troika: "Bend over"
... Tsipras: "No!...you bend over"
Troika: "No you bend over"
Russia-China: "you both bend over"
Obama: "I have the Lube"
Obozo has the lube, but it's for himself...
This is a brilliant political move by Alexis Tsipras as it absolves him of responsibility one way or the other.
He is letting the Greek Citizenry decide whether or not to agree to the Troika demands -or default.
If 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Euro then they are hopeless. They just want free shit and to remain slaves.
I guess they can stall the EU for decades. Keep kicking the can.
HOW DARE TSIPRAS SUGGEST A DEMOCRATIC DECISION!!!! HE OBVIOUSLY IS NOT FOLLOWING THE EU FASCIST RULE BOOK!! HE MUST GO!!!
Theseus is going with a dagger on the Minautor.
Obama: I'd love to bend over!!!
Tsipras is a nickle and dime'er.
If he really wanted a solution, he would have pulled a "Iceland".
This phrase "nuclear option". I do not think it means what you think it means.
Oh good. BTW It's payday in Greece today. Just FYI. If they don't lock that shit down today -- they really are run by morons.
Payday for those still employed, but is the check worth anything?
Maybe someone will throw the old German banker guy out of his wheelchair.
now if I were a billionaire that's something I could get behind.. I'd gladly give Tsipras a few bil to watch him knock Schueble over!
Some crazy shot the bastard to put him on those wheels. Pre-justice? Why can't we have that sort of target selection from our psychopaths? We get dead church-ladies instead of dead Treasury Secretaries.
The EU seems to have adopted the US style of negotiation - obey our demands or die.
http://www.nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/the-odd-american-view-n...
The terminology the US like to use is do as we say or you are no longer 'relevant'
The linguistic subtleties they employ are breathtaking
Weird Djissel-Double Post -- Carry on
Troika vs Tsipras
Blackmail Bluff Battle Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding,
"Then stop spending so much money and pay your bills, a$$hole."
Well, just let them just print up new notes and pay their bills with those, like the U.S.! What's the problem?
thats just ignorant
Keep repeating the lies, eventyally you'll believe them.
Greece shouldn't bow to the Nazi loan sharks in Germany
Greece is a far better country than Germany which is just so much Capitalist thuggery that needs to be destroyed. Fuck the new world order. Long live Greece and Freedom from the EU control freaks. I sincerely hope Russia helps Greece get out from under the financial oppression of the EU. Down with the New World order and their big corporations and criminal billionaires
You must be Hegel's illigitimate love child.
Heh Creepy Cracker. Pay your bills. The USofA owes Greece $ 6.5 billion in UST debt as of Mar this year. Come on pay up.
Issue is Global Capitalism vs. Nationalism. Place your bets or buy derivatives to play the game.
Depends...a lot of those asshats going to be needing depends...
I don't know. Seems like the Greeks have more guts than ANY Americans with the exception of maybe Jeff Sessions and a few House Republicans. The rest of the USA is shit.
greeks have nothing to lose - only the debt
that is why it "Seems like the Greeks have more guts than anyone"
Yes. Still Americans are little asZ boys who watch TV and Zollywood for the z-oligarchs like sheep. As long as a Trayvon ball game is on, they are happy.
"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose...." KKristopherson
As Janis Joplin sang, freedoms justs another word for nothing left to lose
The ECB want greece on the hook for incremental repayment of the debt, not so it will actually be repaid you understand, it never will be just like the US national debt will never be repaid. Its about maintaining the appearance of strength to onlookers. If that goes all hell breaks loose in short order starting with craters appearing in Deutsche bank, then the rest of the PIIGS that have been watching will take note and then bye bye common currency. Greeces position is paradoxically a strong one and they appear to realise this which is why the saga continues. Some sort of deal will have to be done at some point, until then the greeks will play this out, again they have nothing to lose while the ECB have potentially everything at stake.
The debt they have externally is retardedly cheap, Greece has less of a debtload than nations with half their total debt.
Wrong, what we fear is WAR. There was never again in the history of Hellas a bigger timeframe in which a war hasn't happened. I wouldn't be suprised if we had a few major crises in this comming week...
Thanks Freddie.
My name and time are currently for sale at $60.000 USD
Yeah, don't you hate rerurns! All the world and nothing to watch.
For the real lowdown on what's going on, let's see what Prof. Michael Hudson has to say:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/26/the-delphi-declaration/
@ NoVa (first poster) So you caught the post as soon as it came up, read it in under a minute and thought of a witty retort? Bet you the Greeks sleeping in their cars and hanging themselves weren't watching that TVEEEEE Show.
Can't Goldman just do another currency swap like they did to get Greece into the EU? I wonder if the squid got paid?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC24i0-R52E-Y4PHhsjLUbYg
Here Greece,this is the profits we made going long your bonds so you can make an interest payment on the money you owe us....This is going to end well.
It's all funny money. Never really existed in the first place. Poof, and it's gone.
funny money. real death and pain.
humans are a sad species.
humans are the dumbest species on the planet
We're stupid-smart.
You know, I think I probably would have been happier back in the ice age hunter gatherer days.
I don't think so.
A(n) hispanic penguin?
You've had to watch too many Ice Age Movies with the kids to make that statement with a straight beak.
one would think that the moment merkel said that a solution had to be found by "market open" on monday would be enough to show the world who is boss - the bankers and market manipulators - and she would lose all credibility in german politics and perhaps have to resign.
but in the corrupt world of these people, it's OK.
Guys, you haven't figured out the situation yet. Greeks WANT to stay inside the euro-zone !! So, there are no other solutions; they MUST pay back their debt up to the last euro !!
Because Greece has never ever declared bankruptcy before!
Tsiparas rejects blackmail, however , next statement was ;" Bribes might work."
When you get into the world of the really dirty tactics, if somebody doesn't want to do what you want them to do, you put a gun to their head and tell them to take the bribe, literally or figuratively. You do not give them the option of doing your bidding without taking the bribe. If you do that (let them not take the bribe,) they can come back and claim that they only did your bidding because of the gun to their head. If you make them take the bribe, people are going to be skeptical about the gun to the head part when they find out about it.
I think they have accurately read the situation as a win-win either way.
Scenario A: They default and discharge most of their debt.
Scenario B: They get to keep borrowing on their terms.
Defaulting on their debt does not imply that they are kicked out of the EU, only that they are kicked out of the currency union (and even that isn't absolute).
Exactly PanAfrican.
There is no such as kicked out of EU or Eurozone. There is only voluntary departure.
Default, become one country with two currencies (there are precedents for this).
Tell the ECB and IMF that the debt will be repaid, but not any time soon, only after the economy has fully recovered and there is money to spare.
Banks allowed to go bust. Bricks and mortar bank branch buildings nationalized.
Russia and China will lend money, but only after default, only for current expenses, not for debt repayment.
Russia has said they will lend Rubles, so make the new Drachma exchangeable at par with the Ruble for as long as possible.
Excellent escape plan. The devil-you-know will eat you alive, Greece. Guard the armories and get out while the getting is good.
Three Options
...from best to worst.
1. liberalize economy, default on debt, leave EU
2. liberalize economy, keep paying debt, stay in EU
3. refuse to liberalize economy, default on debt, get kicked out of EU, print drachma unto Wiemar
...barring a military coup, I don't see liberalization happening, so I'm expecting Option #3.
...enjoy your last days of living in a 1st world country, O Athenian 'oi polloi.
...you're about to discover what the end result of that socialism you keep voting for truly is.
Want is irrelevant. I want a million dollars, right the fuck now.
Doesn't just happen.
It does if you own the currency printer, which is what is patently unfair about dealing with bankers. The have no right to claim your work or collateral, since they paid nothing for the currency they loaned.
We owe the bankers nothing. The bankers owe us everything they have which was all stolen.
Read the first chapter from: "The Creature from Jekyll Island", by G. Edward Griffin.
The Eurocrats will buckle to Greek demands.
Eurocrats will do anything to keep any EU country from exiting.
Anything.
The Eurocrats must maintain their EU membership and good life of jetting around to private parties, big paychecks and perks.
indeed but they're trying to find the way to spin it in a way that it discourages the citizens of the other PIIGS from kicking out of office their compliant politicians and replacing them with a new breed that has some backbone
(this is where we are in the saga right now - not about greece anymore if it ever really was)
Comment on the ZH update re Tsipras "threatens snap elections": Having said that his government does NOT have the mandate to leave the eurozone/EU but to negotiate a "viable long term settlement" he now believes that the "institutions" and their political masters have demonstrated to the world (but mostly to the greek electorate) what "inflexible hard liners" they are (I mean, how would it play to you if you were told that the 3.3Bn you were offered would be from the profits on your debt!(sic)) and he feels reasonably confident that he'll win the election that will give him the mandate to break away if need be. Having beforehand made the (provisional) deal with Russia/BRICS, I don't think that this will look and feel much like a bluff to the "institutions"/"creditors".
Comment on the ZH update re "nuclear option Tsipras calls for referendum ": He sure shows lots of courage ("he will personally lead the campaign for a NO vote") What the Greek citizens decide will be what they will live with. All the best to them!
Question - assuming the Referendum produces a NO vote (or indeed a YES vote) then what difference does that make?
Answer - it makes no difference at all. Parliament still gets to make the decisions, not the people.
Nah, they'll continue to appear to appease and eventually throw up their hands in exasperation and allow the Greeks to leave. At that point, buy the Euro because it will all be priced in and it will snap from trading like the drachma to the deutsche mark in short order. Eurobanks won't even feel the hit from worthless greek bonds and eurocompanies don't need the Greek economy. It's a rounding error.
And the Eurocrats will still be plenty rich, unlike the average Greek citizen.
"We will not be blackmailed into selling our people into slavery! We want candle light, candy and presents!"
Is that better than unicorns shitting skittles?
The ECB pixie will wave the magic money creation wand. Poof. Crisis averted until cash burn status rears itself again.
It's all bullshit.
There will be NO GREXIT ever.
There will be NO BREXIT ever.
There will be NO FREXIT ever.
Regardless of 3 years, or 5 years, or 10 years down the road, I will be proven 100% right.
I believe there is a conspiracy by the Rothschilds towards a NWO of global enslavement and property confiscation.
Anyone who does not believe so is a sheep waiting to be slaughtered/enslaved and will be slaughtered/enslaved.
Luckily, many posters here believe it, so they'll be saved.
most people still believe in the "markets" too...
Coincidence that John experienced and wrote REVELATION while imprisioned on the Greek Isle of Patmos? If you read Revelation with an eye on current world events it would be quite easy to see many correlations. One need only connect the vivid, metaphorical descriptions to the real world and darned if it doesn't fit very well. Boy scouts will fare better than most - they are prepared.
Go here and write your own "Revelations":
http://www.immoleros.eu/?gclid=CNLT3aKHrsYCFUuWtAodbNoCnw
I'll take the Grexit at 10 yrs.
The 1st season is already on Netflix!
damned ?persian? bankers?
I believe I read the exact same headline back in March, except it was from the ECB that time. Is it possible for two/three parties to blackmail each other? Apparently so.
Replace "debt" with "blackmail" and the situation has an analogy for your delectation.
All hot air: democracy, solidarity, equality, that is the kind of bullshit that feeds the average southern european mind.
My boy, when your mental faculties graduate, you'll realize that all of human society is hot air.
We're pretty bad at making up good pretend shit. I guess, as Agent Smith said, we, as a species, define ourselves through our suffering.
"The first matrix was perfect, but no one wanted to believe it."
Our socioliogical construct say much more about us than we're willing to admit. The limitation isn't within the system, or the world. The chains aren't external ones.
You'll find a different kind of tether holding us back as a species.
It won't be long before EU officials are holding Tsipras down and duct-taping 15.5B in Euro notes to his body..."There!"
Greek got balls, to continually say NO to Euro-Mafia
---> Balls
---> Mental Problems
If I run up huge credit card debts while sitting on my ass doing nothing and then, when my credit card company threatens to cut me off if I don't start making payments, I tell them fuck off; and insist that I will never work again, and demand they loan me yet more money so I can keep paying my bills without working...do I have balls or mental problems?
Yes.
Well that behavior is not any different than most Americans' behavior, and the US Government's behavior, and US Industry behavior, is it?
Hell that is not that much different than the German's behavior, and the European Union Financial Industry's behavior, is it?
If you have nt figured it out the DEBT IS BOTH SYSTEMIC AND GLOBAL. So is the behavior.
And then you sit and BENEFIT through YOUR PARTICIPATION.
Then you really think that you are any better?
You are WORSE due to your refusal to see the DISMAL REALITY of the ENTIRE FRAUD, a FRAUD which you have been participating in every day of YOUR LIFE.
Everytime you spen a US Dollar you are PARTICIPATING.
That Dollar is backed by a FUTURE GOOD OR SERVICE that will never be created. You stick somebdy else with that SHIT PAPER to get MOAR FOR YOURSELF...WITHOUT EVEN QUESTIONING WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
And when the Music stops in this wonderful game of Musical Chairs and a lot of people will be STUCK WITH THAT SHIT PAPER THAT WILL BUY NOTHING then you will feel yourself blameless and guiltless for the fraud you have participated in?
Just who are you Go ahead and cast stones at the INSOLVENT AND BANKRUPT and take a good look in the mirror while you are at it so that you can actually see what MORAL BANKRUPTCY LOOKS LIKE.
OPT OUT and STOP PARTICIPATING or LIMIT YOUR PARTICIPATION as everybody NEEDS TO EAT...INCLUDING THE GOD DAMNED GREEKS.