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Eurozone Rejects Greek Bailout Extension: All Bailout Programs Expire On June 30, Referendum Moot
First thing this morning, when summarizing the flurry of overnight events, we focused on today's final gambit by Greece:
"... moments ago Varoufakis was quoted as saying he would ask the Eurogroup for a bailout extension of a few weeks to accommodate the referendum.
And the punchline: if the Eurogroup says "Oxi", then the entire Greek gambit, which has been a bet that to Europe the opportunity cost of a Grexit is higher than folding to Greek demands, collapses.
If the Eurogroup declines Varoufakis' request, there simply can not be a referendum, as the "institutions proposal" will no longer be on the table. As such, the only question is whether the ECB will also end the ELA at midnight on June 30, adding insult to injury, and causing the collapse of the Greek banking system days ahead of a referendum whose purpose would now be moot."
And, as expected, with the Eurozone meeting on Greece having just ended after a brief hour of deliberations, AFP reports that the answer, was indeed, no.
#BREAKING: Eurozone ministers reject Greek bailout extension: sources
— Agence France-Presse (@AFP) June 27, 2015
And then this:
- EUROGROUP PRESS CONFERENCE CALLED OFF IN BRUSSELS
- EURO-AREA FIN. MINISTERS TO CONTINUE TALKS WITHOUT GREECE: ANP
- EUROGROUP TO RECONVENE AFTER BRIEFING W/O GREECE: EU OFFICIAL
In effect, and very symbolically, Greece is already out of the Eurogroup. Worse: the referendum is now moot as the programs will expire on Tuesday night and Greece won't have anything actionable to vote on next Sunday.
What happens next: Eurogroup makes it official that the Greek proposal ends on June 30 making the referendum moot as the institutions proposal will no longer be on the table, the ECB pulls a "Cyprus" on Greek ELA, and a Greek bank system which is put on indefinite hiatus, leading to a "soft" Greek default if not outright Grexit, paving the way for even more ECB QE.
In the meantime, here is the live feed from the Euro-ex-Greece-Group where now only 18 countries are allowed to opine on the future of the costliest, and most artificial monetary experiment in history.
And here is the official Eurogroup Statement on Greece, whose most important line is the footnote:
Since the 20 February 2015 agreement of the Eurogroup on the extension of the current financial assistance arrangement, intensive negotiations have taken place between the institutions and the Greek authorities to achieve a successful conclusion of the review. Given the prolonged deadlock in negotiations and the urgency of the situation, institutions have put forward a comprehensive proposal on policy conditionality, making use of the given flexibility within the current arrangement.
Regrettably, despite efforts at all levels and full support of the Eurogroup, this proposal has been rejected by the Greek authorities who broke off the programme negotiations late on the 26 June unilaterally. The Eurogroup recalls the significant financial transfers and support provided to Greece over the last years. The Eurogroup has been open until the very last moment to further support the Greek people through a continued growth-oriented programme.
The Eurogroup takes note of the decision of the Greek government to put forward a proposal to call for a referendum, which is expected to take place on Sunday July 5, which is after the expiration of the programme period. The current financial assistance arrangement with Greece will expire on 30 June 2015, as well as all agreements related to the current Greek programme including the transfer by euro area Member States of SMP and ANFA equivalent profits.
The euro area authorities stand ready to do whatever is necessary to ensure financial stability of the euro area.
[1] Supported by all members of the Eurogroup except the Greek member.
Presenting the Euro-ex-Greece-Group
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'cause this is Thrilleeeerrrrr
Better move up that referendum date?
Just switch to Ruble, Putin will take care of the Greeks.
Sadly, the Greeks must go desolate first before they will repent for being in the Euro.
Referendum is dead.
D.O.A
On Like Donkey Kong, it's been used enough times it deserves it's own acronym.This seems like a good opportunity for it's debut.
OLDK
isnt this when obama announces a bailout?
scotus should have an emergency weekend and legalize gay marriage in greece, also.
Bad move EU. How can you not wait an extra week to see what the Greeks want> Oh ya, you really don't give a shit what the Greeces want. Game Set Match...we have a winner...Greece.
It's time.......for Thunderdome.
I guess the IMF needs the funds to prop up their Nazi regime in Ukraine.
By August will they be crying havoc and letting slip the dogs of war?
And, how deliciously ironic. To be a Nazi in Ukraine and get paid for it while the New Dawn party in Greece is banned.
You watch: ISIS will be deployed soon to Athens, with snowblowers and nailguns and backpack bombs. "No democracy for you!"
"No more Greeks" you mean as ISIS attacks with US made M16A2 assault rifles, Abrams Tanks and US made artillery pieces...
You can't quit!
We'll fire you first!
Silver 99% pure ... will be popular.
Just watched the entire itv news for first time in years, just to see their take on Greece. Not even a mention!
Don't these geniuses in "The Institutions" realise there comes a point where getting back even 20 Cents on the Dollar is better than zero? And that, to the contrary, if Greece defaults and pays nothing, that would not discourage but encourage the other Club Med problem nations to follow-suit and do exactly the same?
Not if it costs another 50 cents to get that 20.
The goal will be to make the situation in Greece so bad that all others will run in horror rather than tread down the same road. The question is whether they can accomplish it. I'm gonna need lots of popcorn.
I bet Russia gets a little military base near the Bosphorus Straits as possible to keep ISIS/ISIL at a distance, and control traffic in the Black Sea
Let's go over this ONE MOAR TIME
Greece is cut off from the EU's clearing mechanism and banks
The new Asia Whateveritscalled steps in to fill the shoes.
See, China has a LOT of US Dollars they can "lend"
Russia has a lot of oil and gas to flow through there
And leasing part facilities is good for all parties concerned (As in good because it's a 2 way fit)
So, the entire Greek participation in the Euro, EU and NATO is brought to a festering huge cyst.
And no, don't gimme any of that about there's no withdrawal mechanisms.
Y'sll just quit going to the meetings.
Nuff's enough
From a Games Theory Perspective: it's the TROIKA that's ending the Party.
The Greeks are innocent Bystanders!
Exactly. The banksters are strictly concerned with their derivatives trades. I don't understand why the Greek people haven't taken to the streets.
"leading to a "soft" Greek default if not outright Grexit, paving the way for even more ECB QE."
Goldman said the EU couldn't debauch their currency fast enough with Greece offsetting their efforts. Can't have some debtor state mucking up a good currency war, can we?
Germany - Russia - China - South America - South Africa
The Hot New Global Currency
You just had to throw Germany in there. Now Brzezinski is gonna have a fit!
It's Golden Dawn. If the Greek government defaults on pensions and public services, they will essentially hand the country over to them. Then I'm pretty sure the EU would attempt a military invasion. Greek Nazis are bad, Ukrainian Nazi are good.
Hey EU .. When you're done gloating about your "victory" over Greece, there's a Margin Call waiting for you in your 'In Box'
",,,what the Greeces want."
Who DOESNT know what the Greeks want? They want to be rid of their slavery austerity and they want freedom. If that means a year or so of suffering (like Iceland) and then a new Greece slowly emerges on a new path to stability absent and apart from the Troika, ECB and the Rothschild financial tyrany, than so be it. It can be the "template" for the rest of Southern Europe.
I sense a disruption in The Force ...
"....as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."-Obi Wan
The current financial assassination arrangement...
(woops, scratch that, we meant to say)
The current financial assistance arrangement with Greece will expire on 30 June 2015, as well
"The Eurogroup has been open until the very last moment to further support the Greek people through a continued growth-oriented programme."
'Support the Greek people'?
The unmitigated gall of this blatantly false statement is appalling.
FUCK YOU: Deutche Bank, Troika, et. al. !
EU/IMF kosher nostra mafia can't afford for this captive state to regain it's sovereignty as Iceland already did.
Farce ...
Well, then. I take it upon myself to note that I sense a disruption in The Farce.
Speaking of DOA, anybody seen Ghordius lately? Hope he's OK.
Tsipras tried to dump his gambling efforts onto the people but he and his government are now stuck with the results. Who promises what next?
He gave it his best shot. Never know until you try, I guess?
What is he saying to IMF next week?
I suspect he will give them the finger and walk out. And that's if he doesn't shit in the punchbowl first.
He should have called for a refrerendum weeks ago.
The 'fuckit' moment has arrived.Nobody can back down at this point.
They are going to default IMO.
everyone in the USA (except those making >250K) send $1000
group hug for your efforts
If the Greeks haven't already printed up a few billion drachmas then they are fucking idiots that deserve their fate, because they were negotiating with no leverage. They never had any intention to leave the Eurozone and the Germans knew it. Bluff called. It's going to get very ugly for everyone now.
Time for some dry powder conversion and build up the silver stack some more.
Sliced derivatives and shit sandwich anyone? It all thats on the menu for next week.
I don't know. I think the Greeks should be printing up a few bazillion Euros 1st, while they still can. Plenty of time to get the new Drachma going.
Hmmm ... If they change to a new Drachma, they will still have the plates and presses for printing paper Euro's. (in Athens) ... So the entire Eurozone will need to issue a new style set of notes, just to prevent any possible counterfeiting. (Only the ECB is allowed to do that)
What does he say to the IMF? lol,
"oh well....here's a case of olive oil, nice doing business with you. come again! good night everybody!"
The IMF is talking about a loan to all of EUROPE...not to "Greece."
It is EUROPE that is broke...not "the Greeks."
The Eurozone as a whole has a trade surplus.
... and an unmanagable amount of debt on their balance sheet
If you own the printing press for the fiat in which the debt is denominated it's always manageable ...
The time for the Euro zone to collectively decide to really run the presses will come eventually, too late for Greece though it appears.
Weimar their asses?
They wanted to prevent a referendum at all costs. God forbid if the serfs get a chance to vote on their own futures...
Hahaha, not exactly.
Its not like the referendum results were not rigged to begin with.
I'm pretty sure the EU would make sure those results were just what they wanted to keep Greece around and paying interest while having a rope around their neck.
Agreed the EU/ECB would like to manage the outcome of the vote, but doubt they could if the Greek would not cooperate.
Double post ...
This is from 2010 but is still so appropriate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5QwKEwo4Bc
Long live the referendum?
I think that Greece will be test driving the yuan sometime soon.
Maybe the Namco Pony will get a Chery power train.
Maybe in ten years, when the colonels are done whipping Greece into shape, wages have fallen to Turkish levels and the army of useless mouths who were eating 16 per cent of GDP are reduced to a manageable size, Greece might have a shot at Eurasian Union membership.
Right now, Turkey can host a pipeline as easily as Greece. Tsipras' licking Putin's boots was an act of desperation, just like the Saudis'. Putin has nothing to gain from having either one as a client, and much to lose.
If he wants a new ally in the Middle East, Israel has much more to offer---a stable economy, a large Russian community and a refreshingly rational approach to dealing with Islam.
i spent some time in Athens when the colonels were in charge, and some after.
Did not make a blind bit of difference ,apart from muting public political comments.
Greeks will be Greeks.
A "Greek Army" running Greece.
That's a good one!
A real "rational approach" with that!
Where do you mindless fucks come up with this crap?
You will need CAPTAINS not "Colonels"...and yes...those CAPTAINS will need SHIPS too...
This excerpt gives a nice summary of the modern Coup methodology
Source: Schwarz - Luttwak's Coup D'Etat - A Practical Handbook
Paging Captain Ernesto Tequila y Mota.
It's been Putin all along. He can't loan the Greeks hard cash but he can loan them oil & gas. The Greeks got the biggest tanker fleet in the world
Just a guess, but I would bet that those tankers have been filling up for some time. What gets me is, how a drug addicted alcoholic like myself can think of this, but the Euro Fools and the Obama Admin can't?
What does he get out of it? A naval base? So he can waste billions floating boats around while they don't exercise any real power like the US?
Drug addicts spend a certain amount of their meager existence being extremely motivated.
So there's always that.
The Greeks and Russians are Orthodox Christians while the EU-SSR, Troika, US Govt, SCROTUS, CON-GreZ et al are Satanists.
The Greeks should also invite those polite Little Green Men who quietly secured the Crimea before the Azov nazis could show up. I am sure a 1,000 brave Russian men would like a holiday in Greece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec1OQsU34OM
Contrast the polite men that to the dirty scumbag merc at the fence at Bundy Ranch - go to 1:19. This creepy CS'er is a Xe, Acedemi, Blackwater or other merc who was in another video in either Iraq or Afghanistan. He was not BLM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XqdQjTflc
Sure hope they printed the Drachmas already.
They are going to adopt the new American model of living on hope and change.......
Sound money, makes phonetic cents to me. Just like rats being lead into the sewer by the Pi ed Pi per (what is the question). The wheel spins round and round but goes nowhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_%28music%29
Human perception
It is difficult to establish how many cents are perceptible to humans; this accuracy varies greatly from person to person. One author stated that humans can distinguish a difference in pitch of about 5-6 cents.
A dollar note is 100 cents but costs about 5 cents to produce.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12771.htm
Understand how the propaganda matrix works yet....
FLAV Brutus, eh! All right, Brutus, you got yourself a boy. I'll take the case. My fee is 125 drachmas a day, in advance, of course.
BRUT okay, here you are!
FLAV You're one short.
BRUT Hey, you got a good ear.
FLAV When it comes to money--perfect pitch.
Rinse the Blood off My Toga mp3'Sound' money? As in, "gimme all yo' fuckin' munny"?
Out of the woodwork, keeping hidden where they hide
Par for the course, the highest horse on which they ride
The devil's grin, illness is in so claim your prize
Without the facts on track sumeratism dies
I've got this chronic fever
You'll cure me non believers
Still ill and rehabilitated
By those sick enough to have created
Symbols of sanity, decreasing year by year
Inflated vanity, you learn to hold so dear
Opposite, synonymous, withholding every truth
I live to tell the tale for I am living proof
Rats, rats, they're living in the infirmary
Rats, rats and they've been crawling all over me
Rats, rats, we feed them in the infirmary
Rats, rats and they've been crawling all over me
We're just part of the smallest fraction
Not worthy of any reaction
Without a clue, you're over medicated
By those sick enough to have created
I'm not a stranger to the threat of every modern day
Never got the facts on track and time will win this race
Each tragic accident, there's a hero in its place
Your good intention for attention is gaining praise
Rats, rats, they're living in the infirmary
Rats, rats and they've been crawling all over me
Rats, rats, we feed them in the infirmary
Rats, rats and they've been crawling all over me
https://youtu.be/aBKx56ewU4o
Don't forget that solution that solves all ills, Gay Marrage. That's the ticket.
Greece can sell its unemployed young boys to foreign gay men. Very profitable.
What is discussed as Greek problem is about to become a global problem. We are about to see how contagious this really is? Is Greece a microcosm of the future of many?
Perhaps that is the big hidden elephant in the room. If Greece cannot be threatened, what happens to all the CDS insurance?
Nothing.
Lawyers is what happens. For a very long time.
Hopefully Greece's default will be the example that resets the expectations of the " gimme more free shit" citizens and the lying politicians whom they constantly re elect. In the end, there is only 3 ways debt resolves--1) full repayment 2) monetization or 3) default.
There is no free shit....Someone always has to pay.
"Is Greece a microcosm of the future of many?"
Yes, but not because of any contagion (Greek debt is small potatoes).
Rather, because most of the West (and some of the rest) is swirling round the same socialist black hole as Greece just fell into.
In 2001 the Drachma was 340.750 to one Euro and would be even of less value today.
It probably deserves about a 50% haircut.
Not if it was backed up by Russian oil and gas
The fault, dear Brutus...
Greece is not fucked because of the US, Germany, the EU, etc.
It is fucked because of the economic policies of its own government.
Greece will not be unfucked by Russia, China, or any other farcical white knights.
It will only be unfucked if/when its own government changes its economic policies.
...and the 340 Drachmas would buy you a full meal at a taverna. A week or so later 1 euro was (maybe) enough for the feta.
It is all about what you can buy with whatever currency you earn/use at the place you are/live.
(A number of ZHers pointed out what this will mean for greek tourism and the visitors themselves - a multi billion euro industry already - and this is NOT trading advice:-)
Because the wages at those taverna's were ludicrously low as well, all their wages massively increased after the introduction of the Euro.
No other country in Europe had as great an increase in consumption as Greece after the introduction of the Euro.
I suspect they will be getting a few planeloads of Ruble notes in exchange for a digital swap for Drachmas (or better, counterfeit Euros).
Exactly, yuans or rubles for legit to be declared not legit Euro bills, then China uses the threat of crashing their own stock market or some similiar leverage tactic to force the ECB and the rest of the world to accept those notes and however many more the Greeks if they were smart printed (without the ECB knowing) and warehoused for this type of a scenario aka Grexit.
The Chinese just become the new backdoor counter party guarantors on those Greek derivatives they are so afraid will blow up the banking system if they leave the euro....
Expect the Tsipras/Putin phone call to be announced any minute.
@Commodore64
LMFAO...that was fuckin' funny.
Yow! I thought that power move would buy another week of withdrawls. Guess I was wrong.
Finally the Greeks are forced to live according to their means. And what a surprise that will be for them!
If they did not line up the Drachma as the new currency then I have no hope for Greece.
The land they reside on is of value because of the location.
Greece will be split into smaller entities among Russia / NATO before being allowed to stay in their current state. NATO will not allow them to pivot as a whole towards Russia without maintaining territory in the region for gas/oil pipeline infrastructure. They have to throw Greece out of NATO or cause a split to justify keeping troops in Greek affairs and as a check against a possible Turkish pivot away from NATO which leaves them up shits creek without a paddle in that region. Option 2 is junta 2.0, it is 1967 vuja de all over again in Greece.
Central/Eastern Macedonia is the region to watch when Grexit happens.
Does the PRC already have port(s) in Greece?
Also, regarding Dewey's comment above, how do we know they won't pull a GLADIO on Greece?
We don't on the Gladio, but I would expect it to escalate just like a bookie deals with a gambler that can't pay up, they usually send in the goon squad to give them beating (the severity determined by if they can be lent money again afterwards to get them back in debt) before taking everything not nailed down (territory within the country that serves their purposes) to settle the existing debt.
And if the PRC does as long as they don't have any ports in the Macedonian regions. It doesn't matter. If the Greeks are smart they will allow the country to be split and wash counterfit Y euros through China making China the equivalent of a co-signer on a loan to back the existing Greek derivatives and the backdoor QE money printing press for Draghi getting around 'rules' governing the ECB. They become the counter party for the ECB to those Greek derivatives they are afraid will destroy their banking system and the QE printing press for Draghi at the same time.
The end game maybe to stick the debt on China using it's hubris against them before detonating the whole system taking China down at the same time so they can't attain 'superpower' status. The Chinese are not as smart as people like to give them credit for. Ego always gets the better of them every single time. Being large doesn't equal being smart. How many empires need to fall before that lesson is learned.
Dewey, you are a smart guy, but expecting the Greeks to allow their country to be split as you are saying is not ever going to happen. Yes, Zato my try to break off a few pieces, but the Greeks will fight that tooth and nail.
You assume they all decide they want to be 'greeks' instead of Macedonians or Ionians for example once the free shit dries up. Think Americans will continue to want to be Americans or identify as such when the free shit dries up here as opposed to being called Texans, New Yorkers, etc. The identification one has to nations/states/race etc. shrink/grows proportionally to the societal status it provides.
Look what happened to yugoslavia.
before you start to lecture me about ethnic or religous divisions let me tell you this.
i lived in what was yugoslavia in 1988 as a little kid where my father decided to go back to where his family and friends.
yugoslavia was in an economic nightmare with inflation and i remember the dollar literally doubling everyday which was good for me and my parents as everything was halving day by day and we had hard currency.
yugoslavia back then their was no such thing as i am a muslim,orthodox or catholic it was we are all yugoslavs.
yugoslavs back then their was no nationalism as we are all yugoslavs.
because of the economic situation which i witnessed people start to blame others for their problems,whether its religous,or ethnic or whatever.
suddenly we had we are bosnian muslims, catholic croatians and slovenians and orthodox serbs and orthodox macedonians.
when shit hits the fan,as humans we tend to blame other people except for ourselves
Speaking of Yugoslavians I thought this was a rather sad story, https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/25/fort-dix-five-terror-plot-... of course the reason why Yugoslavia was brought down is also quite sad leading to this family to start a new life in the US
Macedonia might want to reunify with the Greek Macedonia.
Greece and Macedonia have a long standing feud over who owns the rights to the name Macedonia. Greece has also blocked Macedonia from joining NATO. If Greece defaults, they will most likely also have to leave NATO if they try to pivot towards Russia.
This is where Macedonians (Greeks) say fuck this and split off from Greece (with NATO's backing), then they enter in a confederacy agreement with the other Macedonians becoming 2 independent but united states under the name Macedonia. Solves the naming rights problem since once traditional Macedonia is no longer part of Greece they no longer have a legal standing on the name.
NATO admits the new Macedonia into NATO without Greece being a problem and also gets a pipeline corridor into the Balkans by land at the same time. Greece becomes irrelevant from a gas/oil pipeline perspective then. Russia can have the rest of Greece then. It is not like NATO is out of the region. Most of their forces are in Turkey anyways. The country is right next to Turkey so the can run a land and underwater pipeline in at the same time. The wildcard is how does the Greek military respond once the disintegration of the country starts and where do the side?
Banking system be damned it always comes down to the guns and muscle. If they can't hold it together it the old fashioned way, it shouldn't be allowed to persist in the first place. Their whole union deserves to be dismantled then since they never would have been able to build it in the first place without the guns and muscle. We build our societies on emotion not on logic and reason. Until that changes nothing changes.
The other thing you have to pay attention to is Cyprus once Greece leaves the Euro and get thrown out of NATO. You will most likely see Turkey/NATO back the Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus to take full control of the place after the split to test the Greek Military in a proxy battle. Once Greece is out of NATO that disputed Island becomes a target for hostilities.
Neither would want to give up their independence or sovereignty so the only way that works is if they enter into a confederacy type of agreement under the name of Macedonia from a 'legal' standpoint. Just don't set it up with a 'central' government or bank structure. What is common is a shared defense of each others localities to ensure each others independence. This structure is automatically compromised when you centralize the structure for both. The strongest unions are non centralized ones built on strong decentralized independent states. Complete opposite of every union and federation structure in the world today.
If you dissolved all unions/federations etc and forced every country to function as an independent state you'd most likely see a 95% failure rate. A flock of sheeple is no stronger than an individual sheeple. If anything the math works against them not for if they can't break from the herd and function on their own. That is exactly what we are seeing unfold here first in Greece then throughout the world next.
Now if we could only get the leftists in America to do that.
Ha-HaHa-HA-HAHA=HAHAHA!
Living in America, when payday comes around you start to feel like a prostitute when a pimp tells you are not working hard enough to support him- i.e. the free shit crowd
Work Harder - Bitch!
The US will get it's own one day soon. And people like you (and me) that work for a living will be considered the bad guys for refusing to do our part.
That's why I'm working on an escape plan.
I am digging a tunnel to China
I'm banking on a TEXit. :-)
jk
After this last week in DC, lots of texans won't be kidding.
I bought a solvent adapter.
That's for putting solvent down your barrel, to clean it, right?
My escape plan consists of scuba gear. With this gear, I can scour the bottom of all the lakes Hedgers frequent and collect the lost gold that fell overboard in all those tragic boating accidents.
oooooh, hey...pick my shiny up too while you're down there
Team Red spends like a drunken sailor, too. You have to get past this left/right kabuki theater. The only difference between the two factions is that Team Blue placed a bowling ball on the gas pedal of the Screaming Bus of Death as it approaches the Cliff of Bankruptcy, and Team Red placed a brick. When Team Red says that they are cutting spending, that just means that they are cutting projected spending, not actual spending. No matter which Team Captain is behind the wheel of the Screaming Bus of Death, we're still going over the Cliff. Hope y'all possess parachutes.
I wrote 'leftists' and there are plenty under both color banners.
The 'right' is miniscule in the current US government.
+1000
The red/blue are one in the same (because they are both polluted with mostly leftists). There is a big difference between left and right.
The free shit crowd? I assume you are talking about General Electric. Read more and dig deeper fool.
You mean the rampant fascism brought about by the leftists in government?
Yeah - the leftists in all their forms are the free shit crowd - including fascists relationships like GE/Government
Read more what? Leftist propaganda? Fool.
Clearly, you have no understanding of the actual dynamics here. The EU has never had an effort to bailout the Greeks or any other country. The only bailout is a bank bailout for lending money against an obviously poor risk, Of course, the first and only intent of international banks is to lend unpayable loans to confiscate the assets of the nations of the world.
Your naivete is immeasurable.
Welcome to the Socialist Republic of Romania, kids.
Anybody who can't or won't take the next plane out has a truly awful decade ahead of them---if they live that long. What remains of Grandma's pension won't even keep her own body and soul together, never mind those of her freeloading son, the daughter-in-law who hates them both and any brats daughter-in-law has popped out against her better judgement.
Fun fact: under real austerity, Romania's tourism industry basically collapsed. Nobody wanted to visit such a miserable place.
When is ObamaAmerica going to start living within its means?
where did they get the coin to finance the student loans, a trillion worth?
They keep on showing us all these fancy air craft carriers, subs, fighters, drones bought by printing press and credit. Meanwhile going for a vacation puts you at risk of losing cash if the cops stop you as they need to steal to make ends meet.
Put down Greece all you want, it just shows the world the true meaning of hypocrisy.
But I am glad the VIX is still below 15. It will all be great. Yellen will save the world. I just feel it in my gut. Buy!!
...yes...cue the mysterious 2:00 a.m. futures buying ramp for early Monday(tm) morning....because the world needs more central invervention to prevent the impacts of prior central invervention from revealing the consquences of past central interventions, etc and so forth.
Also, fuck you Yellen.
It looks like Greece is going to a bail in ginea pig.
Cyprus was too small and a way to burn the Russians.
If it works on to the rest of Europe.
What this dialogue really needs is a few explosions and some bikini babes.......
@A Lunatic
Looks like you got the explosions re Tunisia false flag
Cheers me up????????????????
http://models.teenyb.com
The Greek bankruptcy .... is taking longer .... than a nigger's death sentence appeal .... under Governor Moonbeam !
Moderate your language;
The Greek bankruptcy .... is taking longer .... than an illegal alien rapists deportation .... under Zerobama!
Do you get a woodie talking like that? I bet you do based on your emblem.
are there line-ups in front of German coin & bullion dealers?
probably not... Dummköpfe!
FU, Eurozone:
Fall seven times, get up eight..... I believe that the Greeks can recover nicely on their own, WITHOUT becoming SLAVES....To ensure it, you must HANG the moronic, self-serving politicians and corrupt, vile bankers from lampposts...[if not explicitly, then figuratively]...
So the referendum is called off, or what? Sorry boss, i swear there was that referendum thing to go to. Can you fire me now so i can collect my pension? FREEEEEDOOOMMMM!!!
So no referendum, and the deal's off the table. Time is out on all the Option A's and Option B's, et al. Banks are now out of money, nothing new coming in. So somebody give me a flowchart of next steps. When does the derivatives bomb go off, at what point specifically? If i'm following the logic correctly, this is pretty much the Grexit, minus a few weeks of wanking. Haven't the EU banks now set off the little movie time bomb clock, with red digital numbers counting down - green wire / red wire, that kind of thing? When does the clock go to 00:00 and boom? Will a newly elected EU-friendly group come in and provide a dramatic, last-second deal? Doesn't that make the whole Goldman-stunner scenario incorrect? Jesus, man, my head hurts.
You are asking the wrong crowd here.
NOBODY on ZH has the answers to your questions at this point.
Perhaps Tyler knows somebody who can make coherant sence of this.
Maybe, maybe not.
#gold will open limit down Sunday
Dumbshit, it opens up $25
Most apparently do not understand the problem Greece has if they do not take on the necessary austerity programs to stay in the EU, before joining the EU the Drachma was 340.750 to one Euro and would be even of less value today.
Austerity would be an understatement if they are to leave the EU. Greece is toast.
The value of the old Drachma is completely irrelevant, the new Drachma could have whatever exchange rate the authorities wish to put on it. They would likely start at 1:1 with the euro, and also pass a law that makes all existing private debt such as mortgages, credit cards, lines of credit, etc., that are denominated in euros be denominated in new drachmas (NDs) , thereby giving a massive gift to the debtors and hurting the creditors (banks).
So the average greek won't feel austerity so much as they feel debt relief.
At the same time they will probably forcibly change all euro deposits in banks to new drachmas, and the euros will be confiscated to use to defend the value of the ND.
So for the first year or two Greece will do very well, after the initial shock. Then they will continue their socialist ways and the value of the drachma will decline in value relentlessly, making greeks poorer every day in relation to the rest of the world. But as long as they stay at home and give up any silly ideas about travelling or buying anything abroad, they'll get by.
At some point they will probably resort to trying to fix the value of the rapidly depreciating ND as that is the socialist answer to every event that they don't like: just outlaw it.
This immediately creates a black market where the true value of the ND will be determined.
Just take a look at Argentina as the model. They survive. Barely, but they manage, and become poorer every year. But they will never vote for a pro business president, deep down they actually still believe in socialism despite all the experience and evidence they have that shows what a disaster it is. Makes you wonder.
The facts do not fit your prejudices.
Argentina is an example of a country's economy being subjected to ruinous US-IMF policies.
After Argentina threw off the IMF shackles and attempted to pursue an independent course, it has been subjected to US economic/vulture warfare and political meddling.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/11/argentinas-me-toos-claim-no-vultu...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/are-vulture-funds-a-us-tool-against-argenti...
Argentina's economic problems are based solely on their fascist/socialist/communistic ideology.
You obviously do not understand economics.
"the new Drachma could have whatever exchange rate the authorities wish to put on it"
I have a 1995 truck and I declare it to be worth a $100,000 - no one will give me a $100,000 for it.
Declaring your currency to be worth what you want it to be worth does not work in the real world.
The currency, any currency, must have a basis in belief of value. It does not matter what is declared, all currency is a belief system and no one would believe a new or old Drachma to be equal to a Euro in value.
Simply leftist delusion economics.
Well, there is someone who not only doesn't understand economics but tries to pass his rightwing hogwash and prejudices as prophecy, and I am afraid that is you.
- The Greeks can put whatever value they want on the drachma initially to convert euros to drachmas. Did you hear for example that Turkey removed 6 zeros from its currency a few years ago and suddenly, instead of being 1.5 million turkish liras, a dollar was 1.5 liras. Only a moron like you thinks this makes any difference apart from an adjustment in price tags/wages. If you cannot grasp that, don't even read the rest of this post.
- Argentina's problems have nothing to do with their socialist policies. Like all austrian morons, you think crony capitalism is socialism, but noone apart from a few losers on this website buys that.
- Nothing ensures that the value of the Drachma will go down as a result of Syriza's policies. The value of the currency depends fore and foremost on the relative amount of it compared to another currency, and the willingness of the people to hold it. As long as banks are not creating new money through loans and pumping more currency into the economy (which can be ensured through a new regulation or nationalization), government deficits, even when funded by creation of new money will not necessarily lead to a fall in the value of the national currency. What matters is how much new currency is being created overall, and whether or not the newly created currency is used to increase productive capacity. That Syriza's policies will reduce the value of drachma is the prejudice of your twisted right wing ideology, and you clearly don't know monetary economics even at the 101 level.
Another fine graduate of Keynesian Klown Kollege.
Another praxeologist charlatan, not tired of waiting for the never-coming inflation?
No answers of course, just a positive vote bait response, just as expected from a praxeologist.
Enjoying the collective Misesian masturbation on ZH?
> Like all austrian morons, you think crony capitalism is
> socialism, but noone apart from a few losers on this
> website buys that
As one of those morons, I take issue here. Crony capitalism is fascism, not socialism.
Empirically it seems that socialism is fascism when mixed with Mediterranean coastal waters.
In other cases it's simply the maintenance of a serfdom to the political class.
"The Greeks can put whatever value they want on the drachma initially to convert euros to drachmas" and no one, not even the Greeks, will accept that value of the drachma, fixing a nominal value will always be overridden by the markets. Not one Greek will turn in a 100 Euros for a 100 Drachmas. Wishing additional value on anything will not make it so. If you believe this there is an entire country of Greeks who will gladly trade the new Drachma for your Euros at par.
"Like all austrian morons, you think crony capitalism is socialism, but noone apart from a few losers on this website buys that." - That is fascism and is always the net results of socialism, Government bureaucrats knowing so much better than its citizens and government employees enriching themselves because they are 'special'.
"Nothing ensures that the value of the Drachma will go down as a result of Syriza's policies. The value of the currency depends fore and foremost on the relative amount of it compared to another currency, and the willingness of the people to hold it." As mentioned no one not even the Greeks will exchange Euros for Drachma at par value - all currency is a belief system and no one will believe a par value with the Euro.
"..Syriza's policies will reduce the value of drachma is the prejudice of your twisted right wing ideology, and you clearly don't know monetary economics even at the 101 level." Your leftist rant will not change the economics of reality. No matter the country or the people, socialism will always lead to bankruptcy and in the death throes always leads to the leftist mass murder and imprisonment of its people. History, economics and truth are the leftists enemy.
No, you don't understand what he is saying. The declaration is the *nominal* value not the market value.
It is a legal technique to trick creditors out of the money they are owed. You allow people to discharge their debts *at par* even though the market value of the currency is less.
Think of it as the people screwing the banks instead of the other way around. For example, currently when banks lose money, they take their toxic derivate assets to the central bank, and they are redeemed *at par*. Instead Greeks will be able to (legaly) discharge their debts with crappy Drachma -thus transfering billions that the banks have stolen back to the people. This is hardly fair, but it's politics which is basically war by other means; the technical term for this technique is "legalism".
Typically the courts will use legalisms against a plaintiff if they take on the state - they can for example say that flouride is "legally" safe to put in your drinking water, even though it is not scientifically safe. In this case the Greek government intends to use legalisms in favour of the people and against banking olligarchs.
Olligrachs won't take this likely, you could see unrest and a NATO "stabilization" force entering Greece.
I understand, this has been used in South America several times.
The net results is always bankruptcy, legal and real world economics are entirely separate.
The people of Greece are F'd because politicians promised what was not possible so they could be elected and the Greeks where greedy and dumb enough to elect them; witness the USA today.
The simple test for any currency is on an individual level; Will you exchange Drachma for Euro at 1:1?
It works for China.