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"This Is A Sad Decision": Europe Responds To The Greek Referendum, Which Has One Massive Problem
In the aftermath of yesterday's "nuclear option" announcement by Greece, when in a dramatic after-midnight speech Greek PM Tsipras announced that Greece would hold a referendum next Sunday, the day after the US independence day, the same Greek government made it very clear how it wants the Greeks to vote.
First, it was the Greek Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, head of the Left Platform movement of Syriza, who said in comments broadcast on state-run ERT TV that a no vote by the Greek people in July 5 referendum “will open the road for a new future for the country" adding that "the dilemma facing Greeks is “whether to live better or not. Greek people are aware of difficulties of a new starting point, they’re ready to support new national effort."
Then the alternate health and social security minister Dimitris Stratoulis doubled down telling ERT-TV that Greeks are being given the opportunity to decide the way forward and “I’m optimistic” that they will give a “resounding” no to the “provocative” demands of the country’s creditors. The only issue is the question being put to the people in the referendum." It got better when he said that "Greeks are being asked to vote whether the country should be a colony, or not, of creditors."
Well, if that's how the referendum question is indeed phrased then yes, it is clear how the Greeks will vote.
As was to be expected, the Greek opposition parties, except for the Nazi-inspired Golden Dawn, expressed horror at the referendum. Conservative main opposition leader Antonis Samaras accused Tsipras' radical left government of advocating an exit from the eurozone and the European Union. "Mr Tsipras has led the country to an absolute impasse," he said. "Between an unacceptable agreement and leaving Europe."
Why? Because they know that despite the referendum move, which is clearly just a last ditch attempt by Tsipras to save his political career by punting the decision straight to the people, if there is a "Yes" vote to the proposed bailout, then Syriza is out and new elections have to follow.
As for the reason why Tsipras had to punt, it is a simple one: at the core of the ongoing Greek negotiation debacle is the inability of the local people to decide what they want: according to various recent polls 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone and keep the Euro currency, the problem is that 80% also want an end to austerity. Two conditions which are mutually exclusive. It is no surprise then that Tsipras had no clue how to proceed based on his mandate.
So with all that in place, the question was how would Europe respond to this shocking after-midnight (both literally and metaphorically as July 5 comes after the June 30th deadline by which Greece needs to have a deal in place) announcement. Conveniently we had just the soundbite venue today when the European finance minister met once more in Brussels to finalize the Greek deal, which is now clearly moot, and instead were asked for their reactions to the referendum proposal.
Here are some of the key responses:
First, the take of Finnish finance minister Alexander Stubb who said "we’re basically closing the door for any further negotiations,” Stubb says to reporters in Brussels before a meeting of euro-area finance ministers adding that most of the Eurogroup opposes a program extension adding the ominous: "Plan B is fast unraveling and becoming plan A. We cannot extend the program as it stands. There is nothing else on the table. We will have to see what the next step entails for Greece."
When asked if Europe will impose capital controls on Greece after last night's dramatic footage of long ATM lines following Tsipras' announcement he said that "We are in no position to announce bank holidays in Greece nor are we in any position to announce capital controls in Greece"
Then it was the turn of Varoufakis' old nemesis, Dijsselbloem, who said that the Greeks "seem to have taken a negative stand on the last proposal by the three institutions, and basically reject those proposals."
"That is a very sad decision, because the door in our mind was still open to finalize talks,” Dijsselbloem also said to reporters in Brussels before a meeting of euro-area finance ministers. "And now, given their decision, they are now proposing to hold a referendum, again with the negative advice to the Greek people, and that is a very sad situation."
"We will hear from the Greek minister today whether all of this is correct, whether we understand that correct, and then we will talk about the consequences that will have."
Of course, no response would be possible without the German finmin Schauble pouring the usual glass of cold water on the face of Greece and he did so promptly when he said that "we no longer have a basis for negotiation."
“We actually came today to try to negotiate a unified position with Greece, but the Greek government, if I understand it correctly, has unilaterally ended the negotiations. We have to look at what the situation is. The program ends on June 30. We know the situation with the Greek banks. That’s an issue of talks between Greece and the ECB. But we’ll also discuss that. But right now we have to discuss everything, that’s why we’ve agreed to meet this afternoon."
On the question of Plan B: “What does Plan B mean? The negotiations have been abandonded by Greece, the negotiating table. So we’re in a situation in which the program ends Tuesday, because there’s no other negotiations on anything else."
There was a brief comic interlude when the Slovenian finmin Peter Kazimir responded to what he expects from Yanis Varoufakis saying "more lecturing" before making it also clear that if the Greek government rejects the proposal, which it effectively has done with the referendum, then the "programme is over."
But the biggest problem for Greece was phrased as follows by an unnamed EU official cited by Bloomberg who said that Euro-area finance ministers are unlikely to extend Greece’s aid program while Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras considers a referendum adding that "some nations won’t accept such an extension."
Belgian finmin Van Overtveldt confirmed as much saying that "we don’t have three weeks, but three days. So that is something that everybody and the Greek government should be aware of. They have wasted so much time in the last weeks and now we have come to the point that we have just three days left. We can no longer prolong whatever action we want to take, because June 30 is there, it is very much there. June 30 is the end of the program. We will have to decide on issues today." Alas, that is now impossible as per the events Greece has set in motion.
When asked about a possible extension of the Greek program beyond June 30, Van Overtveldt says: “I don’t think so.”
And so we reach the massive problem facing the Greek people and the way the referendum is proposed: because it takes place 5 days after the June 30 expiration of the extended bailout program, there won't be an actual program to "refer" on, especially once Europe makes it clear today that unless a deal is reached today, which now appears impossible, then there won't even be the offer of a program on July 5.
As a reminder, this is what the Greeks would be voting for: according to the cabinet proposal, posted on the parliament’s website, voters will be asked to respond to the following question:
Greek people are hereby asked to decide whether they accept a draft agreement document submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, at the Eurogroup meeting held on June 25 and which consists of two documents:
The first document is called ‘‘Reforms for the Completion of the Current Program and Beyond’’ and the second document is called ‘‘Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis.’’
- Those citizens who reject the institutions’ proposal vote Not Approved / NO
- Those citizens who accept the institutions’ proposal vote Approved / YES.
Sure enough moments ago Varoufakis was quoted as saying he would ask the Eurogroup for a bailout extension of a few weeks to accommodate the referendum.
And the punchline: if the Eurogroup says "Oxi", then the entire Greek gambit, which has been a bet that to Europe the opportunity cost of a Grexit is higher than folding to Greek demands, collapses.
If the Eurogroup declines Varoufakis' request, there simply can not be a referendum, as the "institutions proposal" will no longer be on the table. As such, the only question is whether the ECB will also end the ELA at midnight on June 30, adding insult to injury, and causing the collapse of the Greek banking system days ahead of a referendum whose purpose would now be moot.
But that would be suicide to the European project, as it sets the Grexit in play and with that the "European Union" becomes nothing more than Disunion and moving the crisis away from Greece to Italy, Spain and Portugal, the Greek game theorists would say, claiming that to the ECB this is the worst possible outcome?
After all even the former Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, who lost his job threatening to do just the referendum which Tsipras announced yesterday, came to twitter to blast the decision and saying it is irreversible.
Tsipras exploits the ultimate weapon of democracy as a tactical ploy, underminining its political essence. #Greece #referendumGR #toKinima
— George A. Papandreou (@GPapandreou) June 27, 2015
Well, not really.
Recall what we said last week in "Goldman's "Conspiracy Theory" Stunner: A Greek Default Is Precisely What The ECB Wants" which we urge everyone to reread, especially those who think that the ECB and thus Troika, will cave to any last minute Greek demands. Because a Grexit, at least according to Goldman, may be just what Mario Draghi wanted all along, and the only question is who ends up getting the blame for Grexident. Conveniently, with the referendum announcement, Greece blinked in the game of blame, and now Europe can legitimately say it was the Greek's fault and they kicked themselves out of the Eurozone, which will then be a green light for the ECB to expand its QE, crush the Euro, and - supposedly - lead to even more growth for Europe as Greece is left to fend for itself outside of the monetary union.
All this, of course, assuming the Greeks do vote No on the referendum. And even if they vote Yes, which is a distinct possibility based on recent polls, it may already be too late, as it will unleash a political crisis even more delays and gridlock, new elections, and even more misery from inside the Eurozone. Assuming, of course, that the Troika will agree to have Greece back, without Syriza in power of course.
In any event, going forward the Greeks will only have themselves to blame for whatever the final outcome is. That, and the Greek tragicomedy which has now lasted for over 5 years, may finally be over.
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I don't like the sound of Djieselbloom's 'consequences'.
DRAMATIC! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC24i0-R52E-Y4PHhsjLUbYg
I'm ready for the next chapter, Frexit, Spexit, Brexit or Itexit.
The EU can almost smell the end of the Tsipras government. I suspect they'll give them the time to hold the referrendum.
… they don’t call it a
shitshow for nothing !
<=== NO, Fuck The EU & Endless DEBT, And Bring Back The Drachma.
<=== YES, Bow To the Troika, We Greeks Accept Endless EU Serfdom.
If Brussels doesn't like it, it must be the right path forward.
Greece simply cannot leave.
I expect the levels of dirty tricks to explode in the next few days. Riots, attempted color revolution, shoot buying off the Greek military is likely something being talked about right now in Brussels.
In the European union -- democracy is only good when the slaves vote for the EU. When they vote against it -- all kinds of nasty adjectives come out of Brussels.
Fuck the EUR and the EU. Burn both institutions to the ground.
Hmm, how long before Tsipras' family has a horrible accident?
World War 3 in 2020. The Day of Judgement draws nearer.
I expect sooner- say this Autumn or next Spring.
But, soon- that's for sure.
Pay Greeks to retire at the age of 50.....no thanks.
Let's not forget what this is really all about.
let the people vote...they will have to accept the outcome.
However....
Who the fuck is counting the votes???
Make sure the "chads" are inseparable from the ballot and are left hanging so that some paid off judge gets to decide "the will of the people".
Conservative main opposition leader Antonis Samaras
If there's ever a neck in search of a lampost, it's this guy.
" ...Finnish finance minister Alexander Stubb who said "we’re basically closing the door for any further negotiations,” ..."
You can't fire me I quit.
The reason the referendum is looked at as a sad decision by the Eurocrats is that it allows the Greek people to choose their own direction.
That is anathema to the anti-democratic EU (think about the Euro parliament structure)
Greek media paints this picture...
"The Europe of Shame" - To Pontiki
"Germans' Coup d'Etat To Bring Tsipras Down," - Kontra
"D-Day Europe Decides on Its Future," - Avgi
"Battle for the Debt," - Ethnos
Ta Nea - "Tsipras Does Not Take a Step Back on Debt."
Troika two-step shuffle to delay is reaching a end point. Some folks will learn the difference between "investment" and "speculation".
About Goldman fudging the books , about lenders throwing money their way knowing they were creating debt serfs? About bailing out the big banks at the expense of Greek citizens?
Your assessment is correct. The logistics say next spring, unless its a nuclear first strike attempt.
sadly. I think it will be the latter, which will not stop a retaliatoy response.
Fucked up world we are slaves in.
No one lives forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKSdUTV_sb0&list=RDbKSdUTV_sb0#t=15
From the Farewell Tour.
You worry too much / You make yourself sad
You can't change fate / But don't feel so bad
Enjoy it while you can / It's just like the weather
So quit complaining brother . . . . . . .
No one lives forever!!
Let's have a party there's a full moon in the sky
It's the hour of the wolf and I don't want to die
I'm so happy dancing while the grim reaper
Cuts, cuts, cuts
But he can't get me (I'm as)
Clever as can be, and I'm very quick, we only have so many tricks,
but don't forget
No one lives forever!!!
You think you got it rough / What about your darling doggy?
Ten short years / And he's getting old and groggy
I don't think it's very fair
Cold, chop, low, but it's all relative my friend 'cause
No one lives forever!!!
Let's have a party there's a full moon in the sky
It's the hour of the wolf and I
Don't want to die (but) . . .
No one beats him at his game
For very long but just the same
Who cares, there's no place safe to hide
Nowhere to run--no time to cry
So celebrate while you still can
'Cause any second it may end.
And when it's all been said and done . . .
Better that you had some fun
Instead of hiding in a shell-Why make your life a living hell?
So have a toast, and down the cup
And drink to bones that turn to dust ('cause) . . .
No one, no one, no one, no one . . . . . . . (etc.)
No one lives forever!! (Hey!)
Get it?
... meanwhile, Mr. Putin, (currently enjoying a historic high approval rating of 89% >>> http://rt.com/politics/269434-russia-putin-record-rating/ ), is in the shadows holding a bag of Rubles for Mr. Tsipras for future pipeline earnings to help ease the Greek dra(ch)ma ...
Military bases of Russia and China in Greece very quickly restore the economy of Greece and the drachma will be a strong currency.
"The Day of Judgement in 2020" = "The Day the Gold is Due for Delivery"?
2020 <- the worlds greatest optimist.
No kidding. More like July 20.
I have to say I am really changing from side to side on this one. Support the socialist morons who though the free money would last forever? Support the bankers who think democracy is for other people? Support the trokia who think their word is law?
End of the day the larger the government/union, the more the middle class are going to get fucked.
You can lay blame on all sides...so I say screw'em all.
No one has ever given me any free crap....nor have I asked.
The real worker middle class needs to rise up and tell the freeloaders, bankers, and politicians to go straight to hell.
World War 3 in 2020. The Day of Judgement draws nearer.
State your reasons, links or proof. Otherwise STFU, you have no idea what that means.
Why are you so scared of Judgement? Does it remind you of your mortality?
But to give you a clue: because the time is ripe for the harvest.
Long before 2020.....2016 @ the latest
Hmm, how long before Tsipras' family has a horrible accident?
not gonna happen, it is too much visible now the refendum is publicly announced, things you talk are pressure method when nothing is official. luckily for greek gov, coz if it was not official, dead corpses would have started to rain in athen by now.
that might be the reason of the speed of the referendum, to avoid any weird suicid or accident.
Dead corpses ? As opposed to the living dead ?
My cynical side says this is orchestrated by EU to get rid of Tsipras and get a "friendly" government to aid their theft of greece assets
Agreed
H-T,
Are you against the Greek exit for fear of others leaving the EU and damaging Germany to the point that the effects of those leaving wrecks current lifestyles there (Germany)?
you all forget a basic, occuring in any election : rigging.
you think they will display a NO ? lol... i bet my hat it is full rigged voted with just 0.02% of YES winning the show.
you will see... those people are sheep, they want butter, butter money and butterer's wife.
all they want is keep same value of money to euro, which cannot be with grexit, they all know this, to me they will not vote NO because they are franckly not that much desperate they seemed on media...
The Greek peoples heads must be spinning? Their world/lifestyle has been turned upside down in a few short years out of....well...a few thousand. Their options in recovering from this tragic, mostly slow self inflicted, event is limited. Unlike recovery from earthquakes and wars that leaves destruction, this event leaves a void that is visionless, that physical effort cannot alone fix, making the majority of the commoners helpless/hopeless. It is a sad reality and hopefully one that won"t become commonplace for mankind.
They're just buying time before the Grexit. There's a lot of steps that need to take place such as protecting derivatives, writing off bad debt, insulating the stock market, protecting banks, etc. I expect this to be a very slow process like a 2 year divorce versus an overnight departure.
"In the European union -- democracy is only good when the slaves vote for the EU. When they vote against it -- all kinds of nasty adjectives come out of Brussels."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005
Last time i vote
The Greeks simply DON'T WANT TO LEAVE. Greece wants their money for nothin' and the chicks for free. Endless euro bucks but no "austerity".
The Greek people will vote overwhelmingly to stay.
They want to have their cake and eat it too.
They think they can say 'yes' to the Euro and 'no' to austerity.
The 'yes' vote will give Tspiras cover to cut pensions and raise taxes: 'This is what you voted for. My hands are tied."
Endless serfdom is what we all face in this collective. The greeks simply lead the way in social evolution.
What, you don't like the way it looks?
Just be prepared to bend over with a smile on your face.
social "de-evolution"
there...fixed it fer ya. And the regressive, tyrannical dismantling of everything in our society across the world is advancing at a rapid avalanche type pace.
We have never been at this point in mankinds social evolution. We have no history to compare. Constitutions, contracts, agreements, morals, all thing that bind us socially are fading and being replaced by some vagueness that we cannot understand or get our arms around. We will likely end in the serfdom you indicated but with many shades and lipstick to make us look .....not so. So what does one do but drive on and watch out for our own?
Love to see a Texit!
It would be funny if the referendum ends in an exact tie.
All of those philosophers and no philosophy
"It would be funny if the referendum ends in an exact tie."
No big deal. In case of a tie, the referendum can be always settled on penalty kicks.
Yeah but for what next???
Golden Dawn? A Russian Deal? Millions of Greek refugees heading north?
Yeah but for what next
Holliday season around the corner, no one will rock this boat
<=== NO, Fuck The EU & Endless DEBT, And Bring Back The Drachm.
<=== YES, Bow To the Troika, We Greeks Accept Endless EU Serfdom.
Socialism = serfdom (I recommend Friedrich Hayek for a sustained argument). Without a change there, either choice is serfdom. It's just a choice between lords.
certainly true everywhere....but I'd rather have my lord in my own tribe, than lorded over by the tribe across the river.
The EU's thugs will issue a hit on the Tsipras government and get a proper puppet government in Greece that is on the right page [the ZWO page].
Let's just call it Corexit.
I am getting tired of this. Either shit or get off the pot.
I want nothing short of a "WEXIT"...Total elimination of the Banking influence that is destroying the West and marching it directly to war with Russia and China
"That is a very sad decision....when people are allowed some measure of control over their fate. It is sad when people don't genuflect to the collective, when they don't recognize their insignificance in the European Union. It is a very sad decision when people choose to free themselves from the shackles of the central planners who do in fact know what is best for them."
Hey pal. Fuck you!
Don't worry, the US is flying in the voting machines
and US voting experts will oversee the process
to make sure it is FAIR and BALANCED
If your balls are being squeezed in a vise and you're given the option to continue or stop, Captain Obvious says......
.....take them from the vise to the guillotine?
gotta blame TRIBE DEBT-MONEY banksters........
This is a sad decision... for EU banksters
Unfortunately, I don't think so. The debt is already effectively transferred to the public sector and once again the banksters will escape after reaping the positive consequences of their risk taking while unloading the negative consequences onto the public.
Privatized profit, socialized loss.
Nice work, if you can get it, and you can get it, if you try!
Hard to imagine the goons running the EU would actually permit their pals in the banks to go down. These are completely intertwined forces.
What I would like to know is the Russian deal worked out in the background of all this noise.
Exactly. We can all stop pretending that Greece is about to fall off the edge of the world. It is beyond obvious this is a staged event. To witness the steady progression, the strangely prophetic hints hidden within certain media reports and above all else the rather convenient timing you would have to be numb to think there is anything disorderly happening here.
What's tough to watch is the Greek people being used once again by the globalist cabal to show what will happen if you don't conform to your debt masters demands. Instead of heading off this obvious catastrophe years ago, as any intelligent, well meaning, forward looking group would have done, this situation has been taken beyond the point of no return. The Greek people loose either way, and the globalists' will have their cake served room temperature and be finished before noon. The operating economy of Greece goes on sale within the next week no matter the results of the referendum, if there is one, and the rest of Europe, and the world in general will have the experience of witnessing this criminal act in all it's...Glory.
Let's hope this enlightens a few more souls to the global con-job we are all currently trapped in.
Odious debt bitches. Spread the word.
This appears to be the recipie for an EU fiscal union omelet. I'll note that the referendum had nothing concerning any Grexit event.
As always, this is about increasing their concentration of power.
Yep. all bases are covered in Europe. The only way out is self suffiency or relocation imo. Good luck getting your assets clear at this point. Brutal to watch.
Are regular people around the world beginning to realize that centralized government only exploits them in the service of the rich?
Not in Amerika. It's been a banner week for the progressive globalist mob. The White House looked so nice in all those rainbow colors and we never had a war between the states. Yippee.
Watching Obummer sing Amazing Grace made my head asplode.
Grexit may lead to a collapse of the gigantic global bond bubble.
It may also lead to a collapse in Deutsche Bank's $54 trillion derivative portfolio.
And years of suffering for Greeks as Greek GDP collapses by 30% to 50%. But at least most of Greek debt will be written off. And, perhaps, the Greek military will take over the government to deal with the turmoil and protests.
It may affect DB, but I doubt it. After all, it's DB, other banks and insurance companies that are going to determine if there's a default. I'm betting that some magic phrase will be found that allows them to call it something other than a technical default, thereby not triggering the demise of DB, and probably triggering a massive rally in the market. After all, we live in Bizarro World, where everything is backwards. A Greek debt action (see how easy it is to eliminate the word "default") would be seen as bullish in Bizarro World.
Good comment. Their ace in the hole, the financial fulcrum that is the derivatives market will always be there to ensure a "favourable" outcome.
They have all of the "monetary policy tools" available to them, the interesting question for me is the logistics of printing physical bills when the bank runs happen. Yes, they can "print" more or issue another piece of paper which they consider an "asset" on their balance sheet. But if they can't keep up with the actual printing and delivery of physical bills, that could accelerate things.
As we know, they cannot satisfy their obligations to all creditors / depositors. Digital money printing solves the problem until the pace of the bank run increases and at some point they need to print physical bills (not digital entries).
I recently emptied $40K of physical cash from an account. The bank manager told me I had to "order" the bills as the bank only had $9K of physical bills on hand. It took three business days to arrive.
I started thinking: What if just a thousand people did what I did? Ten Thousand? The Wealthy?
I don't think that it would take long for the "three business day period" to become a "three week period", followed by a "we'll call you when it comes in."
The "cash in the bank" is just a "debt owing" and with the proposed bank bail-in laws now in draft form around the globe, why would anyone have any "money" earning zero interest in a bank?
Had the same experience with an old IRA I liquidated a few years back and it was only 20k, I had to come back three days later for "physical paper notes" because they didn't have it on hand.
If bank runs begin they will simply lock the doors.
Control the flow... Everywhere I look... It's control the flow...
The issue of whether or not it is declared a default is MOOT.
Do you have any understanding of FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING?
Only a fraction, a small fraction, of assets must be held as reserves?
Banks operating under the ECB are similar to that of Banks operating under the FED. Only a small fraction of assets must be held as reserves.
Thus let's suppose that I am a LARGE BANK and 7% of my assets are GREEK BONDS. But I am only holding 5% in reserve and am in accordance with the rules.
When Greece stops paying Principal and Interest n thse Bonds then the Bonds become worthless.
Case #1) If a Default is NOT DECLARED then the I, as the LARGE BANK cannot enact the INSURANCE on the Bonds, the Credit Default Swap, and my Banks eats that 7$ LOSS and becomes INSOLVENT.
Case #2) If a Default is DECLARED then OTHER LARGE BANKS, paying me off on my bet (actually 25% Interest per year is quite substantial..) becomes INSOLVENT.
Either Case #1 or Case #2 will cause a cascading series of Large Bank INSOLVENCIES due to the RULES OF FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING.
Thus the issue of whether or not a Default is Officially Declared is fucking MOOT.
So if I am ABC Bank can I TRUST that XYZ Bank is SOLVENT and able to pay me any debts owed, especially when I LOAN THEM MONEY?
The last time that this bullshit happened it was with Mortgage Backed Securities in 2008. No bank could trust the SOLVENCY of ANY OTHER BANK and WISELY refused to make SHORT TERM OVERNIGHT LOANS because they had NO CLUE as to how many of those TOXIC Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) were being held as RESERVES. Any Bank which they loaned to was a piss poor risk in regards to their SOLVENCY.
That was later called, and rightfully so, a CREDIT FREEZE. The Financial System of the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD, GLOBAL, was within HOURS...HOURS...of a total MELTDOWN.
Likewise, this time, this bullshit is happening not with MBS but with Greek Bonds. Again it will shake the Financial Industry TO THE CORE as no Bank will know what other Bank is holding substantial quantities of GREEK BONDS.
EVERY SINGLE BANK IN THE WORLD HAD INCENTIVE as those bonds were paying a whopping 25% per year. They are now paying ZERO and are WORTHLESS. And if they are held in substantial quantity (and what Bank would not want a substantial quantty at 25% per year) then the Banks that hold them as reserves are NOW INSOLVENT.
So which Bank is insolvent and which Bank do you trust?
Welcome to CREDIT FREEZE II, the sequel.
And when your ATM and Credit Card does NOT WORK, and you do not have any CASH ON HAND or FOOD IN YOUR cupboard, you can go ahead and feed your empty stomach on your doubts about it affecting Douche Bunk.
Because it is most certainly going to affect you HERE IN THE USA. There is absolutely no containment possible. In fact this time it is EVEN FUCKING WORSE as Banks are more CENTRALIZED than they were in 2008.
Diversity is the key to survival for any organism...including Financial Systems.
In a population where the Diversity has been restricted one virus can cause extinction.
Thankfully the corrupted and Fraudulent Fractional Reserve Banking System is about to become extinct.
Although what you say is academically accurate, I'm confident there are some provision to be utilized yet. My observations are that a metered approach will be used to rearrange the necessary infrastructure. 2007-08 was indeed about concentrating power, for what I believe to be the next move we see unfolding now directed at the bond market... Coincidence here? I don't think so. One has to admit there is a certain logic behind it all.
You can take your trust and confidence...to the bank.
I will not. But you can.
Excellent analysis. You just forgot one thing:
Hopefully also the corrupted and fraudulent and relentless greedy and ignorant (since Stonage, having learned absolutely NOTHING) Human Race (the 0.01% as well as the super ignorant 99.99%) is about to become extinct.
Correct. There is a high probability that we may just be facing extinction.
Take a deep breath and calm down.
Your analysis would be spot on if any banks owned Greek bonds outside of Greek banks and the ECB. I can assure you they don't.
You will probably take down a few hedge funds and an MF Global or two but the disaster you outline will not happen. The ECB and Greek banks own all of the GGB's on any bank's balance sheets and have for a couple of years..
There may be some on bank trading books but they will be hedged with other GGBs along the curve.
It will all be ok. The world will still be here on Tuesday AM...
And just how many US Treasuries does the ECB own?
If ECB Banks are insolvent then those bonds are LIQUIDATED.
Oh I believe we will be here Tuesday.
I give it...oh...about mid September before the shockwave of massive Bank Failures manifest as all Banks in the ECB, the Fed, the PRBOC and elsewhere, are so interdependent.
As for my supposed lack of calm???
Actually I cannot be more overjoyed.
I am eagerly looking forward to the end of fraud and corruption.
And the collapse of the Global Financial System is a step in the right direction for the realization of that.
<<In any event, going forward the Greeks will only have themselves to blame for whatever the final outcome is.>>
What a stupid conclusion. "1" for the piss-poor, unrealistic analysis.
3 much better articles on the Greek position:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2015/06/tsipras-calls-july-5-r...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42248.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42253.htm
None of these article refute the conclusion that you take issue with; namely that Greece is to blame for the position it's in. The articles ASSUME that the EU is to blame and talk about the possibility/opportunity of a Grexit.
Both the articles and the EU have hard-baked Keynesian assumptions at their core but ultimately Milton Freidman will be proved correct when he said that the EMU wont survive it's first major recession.
However, this will simply be more fodder to start up the talk that was all too plentiful in 2009-2010, that of Fiscal union.
Wont that be grand. One crony-capitalist, socially engineered, massive feudal system we'll call USE (The United States of Europe).
OK so I need to make even more dry powder available, I buy even more physical...before 30/6/15
How can so many be so confused?!
… ’cause they’re nowhere near
as smart as they have led you to believe they are !
I am also impressed with Greece's brinkmanship and game play, really pissing off Troika
The Greeks have a real stupid government.
In the last five months, it gave billions of euros to the troika;
It tried to play "game theory" with the devil;
It forced untold misery on the Greek people;
and for what?
The military should be called in to shoot the entire government.
Stupidity should not be rewarded.
What? They seem like evil geniuses. They've managed a raid in the ELA to preserve the Greek populations savings and pushed the extention to the very limit.
Now, they are going to get an extra week of withdrawls. This is why Tsipras hasn't instituted capital controls. He's siphoning off as much as possible prior to a Grexit.
Once the Greeks walk away from the debt they will have essentially stuck the rest of the EU population (as I said above, unfortunately, not the bankers) with the bill for a failed welfare state and rescued a huge portion (if not the majority) of Greek savings for the people.
Then they will print their own money and start over clean. Join Russia for funds, and go another 2 decades before their welfare state fails again.
.... Priceless
This would be the happy path. Let's see where is the evil hidden.
Usually if you refuse to obey the sionist banksters in US and GB, you get a war.
Actually, that sort of is already happening - in Macedonia. Very soon after Greece signed off on the Russian-Turkish pipeline...
You don't understand the game.
For every dollar they've paid out (not even counting SDRs) they've gotten 1.5 hard Euros to distribute to the people through ELA and run up untold billions more in Target 2. They are f'ing geniuses...
You don't understand the game.
For every dollar they've paid out (not even counting SDRs) they've gotten 1.5 hard Euros to distribute to the people through ELA and run up untold billions more in Target 2. They are f'ing geniuses...
"Well...this is another fine mess you got us into Ollie!"
The only question remaining is whether Greece defaults before or after everything of value has been looted by the EU banksters.
Should have been done 5 years ago. Go get this ELA money and go on using euro, that would be funny
In the end all it shows is how undemocratic the EU is. Democratic is, let the People deside what they should do.
Why doesn't any journalist point out the idiocy of the Troika position?. So far in history the problem of too much debt has occurred 775 times and been solved by write offs 775 times. Austerity and QE have never fixed this problem and yet this is what the Troika wants. Einstein said madness was to repeat the same experiment twice and expect a different outcome, so one can only imagine what he would have thought of the Troika expecting a different outcome after a the same thing happened 775 times in a row....and yet our corrupt/incompetent journos prefer to focus on how unreasonable the Greeks are for wanting the consistent lessson of history to be applied to their situation.
… and the only intelligent journalists were the ones who DIDN’T have a college degree!
This is the right thing to do. Too bad that it took so long to reach this point.
The right thing to do would have been to never accept the debt in the first place. After all, this is the challenge for all of us. Ultimately, while there are people on the left of us and people on the right, all lying to gain advantage over us, we are still responsible for our actions and will pay the price. the irrefutable law of nature.
Self-responsibility.... Surely you jest. It's sooooo much easier to blame somebody else. Just fill in blank with one of the following.... "banksters, jews, america, eu, germany, yellen, aliens, climate change, racism, locusts, capitalism, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam". Takes two to tango. Making Greece out to be some victim here is laughable at best. According to most here Putin will ride in shirtless on his white horse and save Greece any second now.
There will be a last minute deal. If there is not then confidence and support evaporates for all political "leaders" everywhere.
I hope your kidding, in america hope springs eternal, have you notice the celabrations this week with how great the US is?
There's no need to worry about the ECB unleashing more QE in (another) attempt to -supposedly- engender some growth.
They haven't made it happen yet, the growth that is, and I don't think they ever will until they stop restricting the people from living their lives without incessant interfeence in their everyday lives.
The would be European "masters of the universe" need to get out of the way.The real issue is Global Capitalism vs. Nationalism. Global Capitalism without growth leads to economic stress, debt servitude, income disparity and corruption. Nationalism by definition is limited and leads to social welfare extremes, economic stagnation and cultural delusion. We need a new model going forward or the three military Empires , US, China and Russia, will collide. That said , Greece is a test case for the future of more than the EU.
We don't need a "new model", we need an OLD MODEL. And it's a very simple model.
You get what you EARN, nothing more. You don't get what you want, or what you feel you deserve.
Earned, thats the sticking point, are pensions/SS earned? Some say yes and some say no, the old model makes sense.
Earned, thats the sticking point, are pensions/SS earned? Some say yes and some say no, the old model makes sense.
"Vulture Funds Circle Greece Targeting Europe’s Best Trading Bet"
"The vultures are circling over Athens.
Even with Greece running out of cash, talks deadlocked over releasing more aid and the government’s securities sliding in value, a handful of distressed-debt funds -- sometimes known as vulture investors -- see the chance for a big payday."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-10/vulture-funds-circle-g...
"There’s some talk that a default by the Greek government would require “leaving the eurozone,” whatever that means, and perhaps not using the euro. This is mostly just globalist propaganda, along with the notion that a Greek default would also require future “federalization” of Europe. Just look at that NBER list of 153 debt restructurings, none of which required, or was followed by, any “federalization.” There is no reason that Greece can’t continue to use euros as the basis of commerce, just as dollarized Ecuador continued to use dollars as the basis of commerce after the government’s 2009 default."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2015/06/05/greece-its-time-for-y...
Yes..this is a sad decision..all the politicians and academia could not put humpty dumpty back together again...
The TROIKA is demonstrating how Western Sovereign States will be treated under the jackboot of the New World Order which is being pushed by the US, and supported by the EU elite.
The TPP and TTIP are both designed to set up complete control by the amalgamation of Government and Corporations. God help the people, who will end up as serfs ruled by slavemasters. The alternative scenario is removal of the nazi neocons, and the establishment of Governments "of the people, for the people". The 99% must unite and make this happen.
The match-up: Predatory Lenders vs A Parasitic Government. The spectators will be the losers.
Ok.
So we have a decision to make a later decision.
A Euro milestone is passed.
Well done.
With the funds from the lease agreements from Russia and China for their naval bases and advances from Russia for oil transit, and loans from the new BRICS bank, Greece will almost certainly be better off by getting out of the Euro nightmare.
I see it similar. Greece will stick to the Euro and not introduce the Drachma again. It might create an internal, non convertable currency for a period of time to overcome liquidity problems within the country.
China and Russia are ready to invest and to assist Greece. This is the only way Greece gets the bloodsuckers from the IMF away from its throat. The IMF offers only debt slavery for the Greeks. Therefore the Russian and Chinese offer is always better. Its a choice between freedom and slavery.
I'm fascinated how strong the will of the Greek people is and how the overwhelming majority is pulling the same rope. And how clever. The referendum is the ultimate solution and does only express the will of the people, so nobody can be blamed and nobody blackmailed or bought or killed. Its the will of the people, perod.
Compare Greece with Germany. The GReeks have 1000 times more guts than Germany which is a US protectorate only. The average Germans pay more than 70 % of their hard earned money as taxes. And this is what is also the plan for Greece.
Just vote to be free of this shit forever, sure it'll suck for a while, then if you can live within your means you will be able to buy the damned Eiffel Tower for your granchildren.
And then they can charge extortionary rates to the French, Belgians and Germans for admission ;-)
As a great asshole once said, you can fool some of the 80 % all the time, and all of the 80% some of the time, but you can't fool all of the 80% all of the time, unless you are jewish.
Actually, I think you're the only great asshole to say that.
Any funds that get released are not going to Greece. I think the Troika's final offer was to release funds based on structured payments that go back to banks to avert triggering derivatives. Anything less will trigger default, the GS article put a nice spin on it (thats what they are trying to do), but there is no other outcome.
Pretty interesting what is happening in China right now...... Both events at the same time must be putting quite a strain on the financial system. Boy, that's lousy timing.......
So Syriza finally grew some balls, a bit late and after having tried everything else but. Nevertheless, kudos for calling it.
If they vote yes I'm sure the troika will take them back, deadline or no deadline, what's 5 days after 5 years anyway.
Let's see if the Greek voters will have the balls to vote for the exit, or if clinging to the teat of others is too hard to give up. Pessimist in me says they'll capitulate, but maybe I'll be surprised.
Well, at least this shitshow is finally getting somewhere.
Hopefully.
I'm long in popcorn and bitcoin!
You better be long power-on-demand too.
Without which, you'll be left with hard corn seed & no bytes ;-)
The EU position has continued to be 'no debt relief' and 'ever MOAR austerity'. Negotiations have been - 'you must accept this'. The end result is the referendum. Will the Greeks vote to cut their own benefits? That is the referendum. No US politician has ever dared to go there.
That last paragraph appears put the blame on the Greeks regardless of the outcome. Since the Greeks have to pay the debt, why not let them have a say? What's that called again? Oh yea, Democracy.
Apparently it is very hard for the greatest democracy that ever existed,,, you know,,, one that ratifies secret trade pacts, passes super secret laws, and spies on their citizens, to grasp this concept.
If memory serves, Greece owes more today than when the debacle began, the very concept of debt slavery. The debt that they owe was conjured up out of thin air by the banks. The IMF gets most of it's funding to make loans from the greatest democracy ever, that too creates most of it's money by mouse clicks.
Some in the u.f.s.a say the Greeks are a bunch of lazy asses,,, a free shit army while their nation owes 18 Trillion and still counting. 18 trillion that will never be paid back in honest money.
So the banksters print up for FREE, a sum of money, loan it to people they know cannot pay, get real indignant when sure enough they can't pay and then demand real wealth and property until said people die.
Loan Sharking at it's finest.
Cut the fucking ELA now, give them a taste, and anyone that puts a finger near Greek debt again needs a lobotomy. Thank Goldman, how they haven't been hung already is just too confusing.
They have bought out the judge, jury and hangmen.
If you pul ELA now you don't get it back. Seen those ATM lines - bet the electronic ones were much bigger. You don't understand the game...
Maybe a yes to default but stay in the Eurozone?
Just means, horror of horrors, that Greece's government will only be able to spend what they bring in via taxes as they will be completely locked out of capital markets.
Squid
Greece has the money to conduct a referendum?
Goatskin ballots.
Greece must leave the EU!
Now would be a good time for a Deus Ex...
Debt Slaves of Big Bank Capitalist COntrol.
BURN THE IMF DEBT OUTSIDE THE PARTHENON!
Big Socialist State Corporation .... serfs are non voting shareholders .... party members are preferred stock shareholders .... bank on it !
The EU will start the new week with a suggestion of de-monitzation of the Greek euro. Just a suggestion mind you that if Greeks don't surrender that all their money will be worthless. That should start a few fires in other member countries. Of course Germany won't have to worry since they have a stash of gold somewhere, not sure where exactly, but somewhere.
And how in the hell would that work? I have a 2nd home in Malta. Looking through my notes here I only have 5 Maltese notes out of 12 in my wallet. Two of the notes I hold are Greek. The others are Itallian. You gonna tell me my Greek notes are worthless? Never gonna happen... The black market exporting the Greek paper would EXPLODE....
Don't be ridiculous...
Greece is just the first step in the crumbling of the USA/West empire. They have the opportunity to get out before everything is going to fall apart. It is awfully ridiculous to impose extreme level of sacrifice to other nations while yourself print zillions, of soon to be worthless paper money, to continue your good life. Greece should get the hell out of the German dictatorship and be both indipendent and peacefull, even if that entails living a more realistic life, instead of chasing the illusion of the "american dream".
Dijsselbloem and Schauble would be singing a very different tune if it were Chermany.
What hypocrites.
Greece will eventually default...but stay in EU.
"Greece will eventually default...but stay in EU."
Not possible, this would debase the Euro and the loss to all other countries in the EU would be in the trillions
What in the world are you on about?
There are plenty of countries in the EU that don't take part in the Euro (EZ). The Greeks can easily leave the EZ and function quite happily as an EU member.
Did you forget their NATO membership as well?
Try and see the forest for the trees my friend. The Greeks know that neither Europe or NATO will allow a failed state for both political and security reasons. They will get the support they need to recap their banking system.
You think Merkel and co will live with the photos of starving widows and orphans and pensioners on TV while they collectively ship 90bln/yr in foreign aid out of the EU each year? F-ck Off...
If the greeks are smart, they will vote no and at least be free of the yoke of the Euro and masters of their own destiny.
The doom sayers are creditors and their paid for shills. Debtors are allowed to default. That's the risk of lending.
Good for the Greeks...
One massif problem .... GREECE !
Spain next
The problem with the euro zone is that its monetary policy pre-crisis was designed to aid Germany, rather than other countries..
"The Lesson of Greece Is that Europe Is Run by Functional Sociopaths or Psychopaths"
¡Algo mas Humanos!
¡¿Es que no me has escuchado?!