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Greece Will Default To IMF Tomorrow, Government Official Says
Earlier today, as the exchange between Greece and its creditors got increasingly belligerent, Estonian Prime Minister Taavi Roivas told public broadcaster Eesti Rahvusringhaaling in interview that a possible Greek decision to leave euro area wouldn’t soften stance of other EU countries and that Greece’s debt would still remain outstanding and creditors would expect this money back."
"If Greece leaves, the value of their new national currency would decline very fast, so their solvency would still worsen further. They will either have to cut spending or improve their tax revenues. There are no other options."
So did this latest antagonism change the Greek mind? According to a flash headline by the WSJ released moments ago, not all. In fact, Greece just made it official that it would default to the IMF in just over 24 hours.
Greece won't pay IMF tranche due Tuesday, government official says http://t.co/xnCG6c6baX
— WSJ Breaking News (@WSJbreakingnews) June 29, 2015
More:
Greece won’t make a debt repayment to the International Monetary Fund due Tuesday, a senior Greek government official said Monday.
Earlier this month, Greece had notified the IMF it plans to bundle its loan repayments falling due this month into one payment of around 1.6 billion euros ($1.7 billion), which is due Tuesday.
The IMF has said that Greece will immediately be in arrears if it fails to make the debt repayment.
So, as per game theory, the Greek plan - at least until the social mood turns very ugly - remains just one:

The problem is what happens then...
Greek bank chief: "Few billions left, so we are OK until next Mo or Tue BUT if no deal, there will be no money left” http://t.co/2ZyO2Bcd6l
— Pieter Cleppe (@pietercleppe) June 29, 2015
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YAY
Don't believe it though...
BEST FUCKEN NEWS SINCE 2008
The IMF has been charging an effective interest rate of 3.6% on its loans to Greece. This is far more than the interest rate the institution needs to meet all its costs, currently around 0.9%. If this was the actual interest rate Greece had been paying the IMF since 2010, it would have spent €2.5 billion less on payments.
Out of its lending to all countries in debt crisis between 2010 and 2014 the IMF has made a total profit of €8.4 billion, over a quarter of which is effectively from Greece. All of this money has been added to the Fund’s reserves, which now total €19 billion. These reserves would be used to meet the costs from a country defaulting on repayments. Greece’s total debt to the IMF is currently €24 billion.
Tim Jones, economist at the Jubilee Debt Campaign, said:
Where is the people's money? Why are the banks closing. Maybe they should convert them into prisons for their bankers and politicians.
WTF, ZH gets it wrong?
IMF already said if Greece misses a payment, they will simply be "in arrears", not in default, as per the IMF.
What, you think its that easy to get away from the IMFs debt slavery, that one can just declare bankruptcy???
A banker will never accept default. They will always consider you in arrears, that is why you have to burn them at the stake with their worthless fiat as fuel.
Heck.. no BFD
They can default to the IMF .. all the saints in heaven.. all of the powers in the universe but they will never default in the eyes of the ISDA because that is when SHTF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViOxWqNSRUg
Ain't socialism run by criminal banksters a beautiful thing to behold?
So how does a bankrupt Greece stay in NATO?
aw, c'mon..
it's just a matter of the f'n Krauts selling them more submarines.
I'm gonna love the flames for this one
AH C'MON IT CAN'T END TOMORROW! THE FARCE MUST CONTINUE!
Remember techincally it is not called a "default" when you miss a payment to the IMF.
When Greece misses a payment to the IMF it also misses debt payments to the Trioka which include such Stalwarts as Estonia and when said Nation-States miss this income they need to sell other assets to make up for it. This begets a daisy chain of selling financial instruments that cascades with hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of derivavties.
Welcome to Fight Club
:)
Oh F me with a spoon..
Better yet a spatula..
Oh gosh, even more better yet a trenching tool.
Or a freaking 300 hp Cat back hoe.
But the m fo’s will not allow it to happen until China calls its cards in.
but, goddam it, it's not a lie if you believe it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ
Panos says long selfie sticks
The Great Global Default of 2015
Greece: 'I won't cum in Euro mouth'.
Portugal: 'I won't cum in Euro mouth'.
Italy: 'I won't cum in Euro mouth'.
Spain: 'I won't cum in Euro mouth'.
France: 'Viva la France'.
Wow.. I am not 100% sure of how that logic really works .. but
I’ll go with the flows.
smile with lips tight.
There's no way that the-powers-that-be will allow Greece to leave the game. Ain't going to happen. Expect to see tanks in Athens by Monday morning if the Greeks opt to leave.
Estonia? hahhaa
First, Estonian Central Bank (an oxymoron in the eurozone) took all the interest payments of Greek debt so government was left empty handed.
Second, Greece was given a pass on the interest payment long time ago.
Third, nobody in this country expects to see this money ever again. 800 million to be precise. Of course nobody asked the people if this money should be given away in the first place.
Fourth, we don't have many assets left to sell. 200 kg gold for example.
Fifth, we have lowest government debt in Europe. No problem to get a loan or two. Hell, ECB is printing at the moment.
I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Estonia is smaller than a average city in the world. We won't start shit.
... Lagarde might be saying ... I'MFucked ...
For the first year in a long time the IMF head, be it Ms LaGarde or otherwise, did not attend the Bilderberg Group conference.
Chew on that one.
:)
Unless she was on her death bed and was miracously revived, that really is big news. It may mean she is out.
That or they know what is going to happen and are ready for mayhem with the BIS & UN picking up the pieces. Welcome to the NWO, one global currency shoping. Oh, and get ready for Rand Paul to be the next POTUS.
Dupe so I'll take the time and say....
GOLD BITCHEZ
GOLD AND SILVER BITCHEZ...
In hyperinflations Silver does very, very well.
Gold is core wealth preservation.
Silver is your speculative investment.
I don't know when it will happen or if I'll live that long, but when the bond market implodes, precious metals are going to be something to behold.
I doubt that. Who would fuck an orange lizard? She is a perfect example of a gobemouche. Flies and other small insects fear her.
Edit:I didnt mean to disparage lizards in any way.
Orange is the new Black.
In other news, ah the good ole days of Greece...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuZCh9gWLBQ
You bastard! Thats as bad as being Rick-rolled....
Lizards are just little dinosaurs awaiting their next turn.
OH OH... DOM IN OH ! .
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/28/world-view-global-...
Many here are just as bad as those they vilify. They HOPE that hundreds of millions of people will suffer because they think they will rule due to their little piles of gold.
Real nice people.
They are also in for a big disappointment as they will be no better off than anyone else.
Then you must believe creating wealth from linen and ink - IS OK?
Fucking Fool... day off and drunk but not Stoopid.
You're just another Central Banker wannabe except you aren't even willing to work for it.
Fuck you.
You are more evil than they.
Got Au, Ag, Cu, Pb, or any other tangible collateral?
I do.
you are implying that central bankers themselves somehow 'worked for it'. nothing could be further from the truth. Creating currency out of thin air on a computer hardly counts as work. Most fo us gold buyers arent 'looking forward' to any collapse. This is going to cause a lot of pain and suffering for most people of the world, I certainly don't want that. We are merely looking to insulate ourselves from it the damage done by those who presume to rule over us all. Others are free to do so as well, and I would encourage all people to do just that.
We are not the ones who will be causing this pain. We have been activily trying to warn anyone who will listen about it. I want to be able to help people, especially my family. You are a fucking fool and you have clearly learned nothing in your time here.
MEREMORTAL...
Man...You have got that wrong.
Yes millions of people are GOING TO SUFFER. Many millions more will DIE as a result of this.
I do not intend on being one of those millions, no thank you.
If I am not in a position to help myself then I am in no position TO HELP OTHERS when the Shit Hits The Fan.
And yes I may end up ruling BECAUSE OF MY REASONABLE ATTITUDE, MY PRUDENCE, and MY SACRIFICES while all the rest of the fools were out the pushing and chasing worthless paper as having any real SUBSTANCE.
I MOST CERTAINLY do not need or want the UNREASONABLE AND THE IMPRUDENT making decisions about my life.
That is the REASON why we are at where we are at NOW.
In fact THEY ARE THE CAUSE of the many millions who will die.
In fact THEY ARE THE CAUSE of the many millions who will suffer.
I did not print up a bunch of FRAUD.
I was not CORRUPT and DISHONEST in my dealings with ANYONE.
BUT THEY WERE.
And you have the unabashed audaciousness to declare that I am no better than a Fraudulent and Corrupt FUCKER who would sell their own mother and children down the river to realize a short term profit in order to satiate their OWN GREED for fucking worthless paper?!?
GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!
And, post collapse, do not come knocking on my door for relief.
My food reserves are stockpiled for the APPRECIATIVE and not for the UNWORTHY ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY INGRATES as yourself.
The APPECIATIVE will work for what they get and they will be fed.
The INGRATES with the Entitlement Mentality can hit the road and starve.
Tom, don't hold back, tell us what you really think.
Are you not entertained?
That's a lame statement Mere. People posting here are common investors, employees, business owners, and retired folks. WE are by definition the primary victims of endless methodical attacks doled out by psychopathic bankers and politicians. And instead of burying our heads in the sand, we have decided to give ourselves ulcers and migraines trying desperately to stay informed, so just maybe we can give our families a bit more comfort and safety in the future.
And IF you hear a tinge of ugliness in our posts it is because every slave daydreams of getting in a punch or two when the time comes. That's all. It's gallows humor. It's the hope that we can grab a little control in an uncontrollable situation. We think, "Every dog has his day." while we wait.
So I respectfully feel your statement that somehow WE are no better than THEM is utter crap. I've injured no one. I've stolen from no one. I've plotted againt no one. But, you betcha! I think it would be pretty swell, if Jesus Christ decided today is the day he wants to pop in to say Hi, turn over tables, and thow some money lenders down a few stairs.
No, the beautiful thing to behold will be the head of said banksters hot of the guillotine.
Whether or not the ISDA declares a Default is moot, Manthong. It is irrelevant.
Let us game the scenario and look at the end result. If the end result is the same then it really does not matter what the ISDA does, doesn't it?
If the IDSA declares a Default then those Financial Institutions which issued the insurance on Greek Bonds will become inolvent due to NEGATIVE EQUITY.
If the IDSA does not declare a Default then the Banks which on the Greek Bonds are insolvent due to NEGATIVE EQUITY. This happens because the Banks have a FRACTIONAL RESERVE. The loss on any Greek Bonds held, now valueless, wipes out any equity held in Reserve.
What difference does it make? Some Banks will become insolvent while others do not.
The end result is the same.
Which Bank is insolvent and which Bank is not? THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM. Nobody knows.
That is the only question that really matters.
Would you make a loan to an insolvent Bank? No?
Yeah. I know. You are smarter than that. You do not have cash to...throw away. That is quite a sensible, reasonable and prudent decision on your part.
Will another Bank knowingly loan to an insolvent Bank? No?
You are right. They will not. They are not only smarter than that but some still have the common decency to have some Fiduciary Responsibility and protect their shareholders', depositors, and their own EQUITY since they are invested into their job.
It is in a Loan Officer's personal interests not to originate bad loans...if he values his job. Thus he will act accordingly in a reasonable and prudent decision making process. He really is not that much different than you, or I, or anyone else in that regard.
As a result, as nobody knows which Banks are insolvent and which are in "good standing", these Loan Officers stop originating Loans, any loans, especially OVERNIGHT LOANS, as they do not know whether or not the doors will be open on the next day to where they can collect the loan..
Thus CREDIT FREEZES as Banks STOP LOANING TO ONE ANOTHER SINCE THEY CANNOT TRUST THE SOLVENCY OF THE OTHER INSTITUTIONS.
That is called a CREDIT FREEZE.
It already happened in the RECENT PAST...2008. This is not some wild cockamamie scheme which I dreamed up. There is empirical evidence that supports my prognostication on how others will behave in similar circumstances. Social Psychology, you know?
That is what HAPPENED in 2008. There was a CREDIT FREEZE The Banking System was on the ABYSS OF IMPLOSION as a result. Even the MSM does not hide this. We were HOURS AWAY from a total collapse. What in the hell is so hard to understand about this?
Well it is happening AGAIN. This time the catalyst is NOT the TOXIC MBS as it was the last time.. This time the catalyst is TOXIC SOVEREIGN DEBT.
And the issue as to what catalyzes the reaction is also MOOT.
But the REACTION is FAR FROM MOOT.
Welcome to Credit Freeze II...the Sequel.
The consequences have yet to reveberate through the Financial Sector. And when it does there is absolutely NO HOPE of bailing out the DERIVATIVES IMPLOSION WHICH FOLLOWS. This time we will goen into the ABYSS from which the is NO ESCAPE.
It is much like a Black Hole and we are reaching the EVENT HORIZON shortly...say September...
So whether or not a Default is declared by the ISDA is MOOT and irrelevant. They have absolutely NO POWER to STOP THE CARNAGE to follow.
The suspense is fuckin' killin' me.
Just be sure that the oncoming famine and lack does not.
Stock up on US Dollars, IN YOUR PHYSICAL POSSESSION, and then, AFTER Credit Freeze II manifests, divest of all of those stockpiled Dollars as you can buy anything for "Pennies on the Dollar" as CASH will be scarce. There is only a scant $*00 Billion to back up $10 Trillion in Deposit Accounts and Credit Accounts. The ATMs will be down because the CREDIT FREEZE will also shut down many American Banks.
That window will last about SIX WEEKS...
Afterwards, after the Fed has printed Physical Dollars to satiate demand, and after the Foreign Central Banks have divested themselves of the $12 Trillion, because of their own INSOLVENCY, and it is repatriated to the USA to buy up everything for "Pennies on the Dollar" (Who does not like a good sale after all?).
THEN...
...ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE and you will see a Hyperinflationary Inferno manifest right here in the USA.
And at that time you had best be heavy into Gold and Silver, which you bought up during the Sale of the New Millenium...as well as Copper Jacketed Lead in Brass Casings to protect it.
And if I am wrong?
You can always redeposit your Cash in the Bank to earn that generous 0.25% Interest.
TT: I Concur.
Howevah, I'll loan at 0% as I don't believe in usury.
But I will take your first born if not paid in full.
LOL.
I do not have a first born as it was miscarried.
But I do believe in usury as Christ referred to it in the Parable of the Talents.
In that allegorical parable, of course, he is the Master, and he was angered that is wicked servant had hid the wealth and had not even deposited it into a bankwhere it would gain interest.
If the Master can collect Interest than so can I.
(But the Interest being paidout to Savers today is nominally negative due to "Official Inflation Rates". So the Bank is charging you to use the Capitl deposited.)
Don't forget the master got really pissed off @ the temple because the exchange for Roman (diluted) coinage to Shekels (pure silver) was robbery to the civilian, who also could not afford an undamaged dove for sacrifice so the market sold them a slightly damaged dove ....
That sounds plausible enough but sure blows a hole in the theory of cash being banned.
I think that plan has worked wonders as there are not enough PHYSICAL US Dollars in circulation for a functioning economy as it stands currently.
But I do not believe that they did not forecast that Greece would elect a Soialist Government that would end up being incorruptable by the ECB. That is the real Black Swan as they did not see that one coming.
So their timing has been piss poor...as piss poor as most GAMBLERS who play the STAWK MARKET. They are not infallible or totally incompetent. If that were the case then they would not have attained the positions of power which they currently hold.
Cheers. We are going to end up winning and overthrowing the bastards.
Winning what? Who knows? Our own extinction perhaps?
But the Fraud and Corruption is coming to an abrupt end which is the WIN...September perchance? Is Martin Armstrong correct? We shall see.
Here's hopin' the top of the ponzi food chain, and their supporters, gets the punishment they deserve.
I keep only enough $ in the bank to cover any checks that I have to mail.
And the only solution is for the regulators to identify the TBTF banks and throw QE money at them and leave the remaining casualties on the junkheap. Is it even possible to pick the rightful winners?
Is it even possible to pick the rightful winners?
There are NO RIGHTFUL WINNERS as it has ALL been based upon Fraud and Corruption.
The Euroean Banks are guilty for failure in due dilligence which is a breach of their Fiduciary Responsibility, when issuing loans to a Nation, Greece, which had no real ability to repay.
The Greeks are guilty for intiating loans that they had no ability to repay.
Both are as guilty as one another in this perpetrated Fraud.
Nobody needs win there as both need to lose.
Also for the issuers of the Credit Default Swaps and the "insured" Financial Institutions.
Both again are just as guilty as the other in this prepetrated Fraud.
There are NO RIGHTFUL WINNERS. Everybody needs to lose and it needs to be as painful as possible in order that they learn not to participate in Fraudulent Schemes.
Sure they do. All they have to do is have the fed print up fake magic dollars
and swap them for fake magic Euros or something.
Then the IMF and/or Troika can fill in all the holes where the Greek payments
are supposed to go. This kind of can kickery has and will be done forever.
Forever is a long time.
Once the trust has been breached and the faith has been lost then there will be NO CONFIDENCE that any printed "Magic Dollars" can fix.
Everybody will see that the Emperor is stark raving naked.
The reality has been denied for far too long.
We have been told that everything has been fixed when it is clear to any with vision that it has been papered over and the can has merely been kicked.
The sad truth is that there is NO SOLUTION TO THIS as it is a PREDICAMENT and no longer a problem.
Problems may or may not have solutions but predicaments only have outcomes which are dismal at best and fatal at worst.
When you fall from a cliff you do not have a problem. The outcome is assured. You will hit the ground.
This outcome was assured for Greece many years ago. Now we are seeing the outcome PREDICTED BY FAR TOO MANY.
It was not the problem of the Greek Debt that caused this. It was the result of the PREDICAMENT of Greek indebtedness and many could see the writing on the wall...because they understood the differentiuation between a problem and a predicament.
Now you can continue and misplace your faith, trust, and confidence in the Fed and the ECB if you want.
Now I will not do that because I can see the predicament that they are facing.
But you can knock yourself out if you choose and keep smoking the Hopium that there is a solution for a predicament...for which there is not.
But you will not be able to deny the consequences when it happens...like the Greek DEFAULT.
Just be aware of that. Be aware.
I do not disagree with any thing you have said.
Are you suggesting that it's bunker time?
Not yet.
But be prepared for it.
I would rather be prepared and have it NEVER HAPPEN than not be prepared and be one day too late.
My personal belief is that we have until September, 2015.
But I also believed that the Federal Reserve could keep the Financial Collapse of 2008 from happening until after the US Presidential elections happened in November, 2008.
I was too much of an optimist and I was wrong on the timing.
I may be wrong on the timing of this also.
But we are in a quandry, a predicament without any chance of escape..
@Tall Tom, great post.
Too bad the part about the implosion was bullshit but he bought the MSM shit wave so he believes it.
MINUTES AWAY FROM Sudden Death.
The all caps and boldface was very exciting tho.
Unfortunately that report from the MSM was as true then as it is today...
The problem was that the bailout happened.
It only has served to delay the onset of the consequences of the PREDICAMENT which we were facing then and the same PREDICAMENT we are currently facing.
I am sorry. But just because most MSM reports are bullshit does not mean that ALL MSM reports are bullshit.
You must look at ALL that which is reported by the MSM with skepticism.
Yes sir. I will acquiesce to that fact.
Now I know that the best way to fabrcate a lie is to tell a lot of truth and slip the lie within so that it is accepted. Well everybody knows that.
But the MSM has another agenda. They want you confused.
So they will report and tell lies upon lies, so that their reports are INCREDIBLE. That is INTENTIONAL and DESIGNED, sir.
So when the truth is reported then it is not believed.
Do you understand?
and drive a wooden stake thru their heart, and cut off their head, and castrate their children, and demote their wives back to alley way prostitutes, and tell the story of them around campfires to children, and spit on the ground whenever banker is spoken for all of eternity.
I am dying here..
I had to pull myself up from the floor again..
I think you might have forgotten about pouring the pounds of salt upon the bleeding victims of the bankers.
.. and then the sodium hydroxide
Areyou in Tyler's Soap Manufacturing Facility, again?
Silverserfer, you're welcome around my campfire anytime.
You forgot about shitting down the neck hole after you cut the head off.
Indeed! Sort of like "The Iron Bank" in "Game of Thrones". The writers very cleverly added a bank, a large quasi world central bank, to their story line. The greatest rulers had to bow a scrape in front of the bankers of The Iron Bank. And no defaults were allowed. I credit these writers, because good fiction is almost always devoid of one of the world greatest players, Bankers.
Yeah, but they were added to the story in ad hoc fashion.
We were led to believe it was the Lannisters who were wealthy, for all of what, 2, 3 seasons?
Then it becomes apparent they just had a good credit score, and a massive line of credit (i.e. its who you know, not what you know).
Littlefinger.
He gets the coin.
Varofakis?
Eh, not so much.
but you forget.
A Lannister always pays his debts.
The Red Weddng was nasty. Wasn't ready for that one...
It's in the books.
IMF is a lame but patient duck (see Ukraine). But a ferocious political animal and being close to Russia doesn't help.
Classic!
i believe you are closer to the truth.
Yeah just like Argentina.
Who was the Guy Singer in Vulture Capitalism who buys up bad debt for pennies on the dollar, then proceeds to sue or demand payment from the country.
Maybe there will be an ETF set up for country debts that are bad, which someone will manage to extract the wealth.
Pretty sure we'll be hearing some linguistic gymnastics to hide any mention of "DEFAULT". They will say anything to prevent a credit event being announced because it means game over for the system.
So, "Arrears", "Technical mumbo jumbo", "Abrogation of debt", that sort of thing will be hitting the airwaves (If it is even mentioned).
No mention of Greek asset seizures yet and I remember some stipulations about the original bailout agreement, but since most of their gold reserves are paper, seizure isn't going to be problem for the IMF and other creditors. As for Greek national properties like ports, land, pension funds and such, it's going to be messy.
Paging Mr. Putin...Mr. Vlad Putin.
Repeat after me:
"Central bankers are not my friends"
"Central bankers are not my friends"
They act like a friend when it suits them, and naive, stupid traders think "they have to keep giving free money."
THEY SURE AS HELL DO NOT.
The IMF is about power and control and this'll piss them off. If countries figure out they can tell them to fuck off, they won't survive very long.....
The IMF is just a Dollar Bank.
They do only accept gold as collateral...and they do own that gold once you post the gold as collateral as far as I am aware of...but as Banks go they're not much of one.
Of course stiff the IMF and all exchanges will have to be done in dollar terms on public markets.
Not sure what Greece produces "black market wise" that is of any value to anyone.
They're not called "cash crops" for nothing...
a 2.5bn Euro profit? considering a large part of the interest rate is risk compensation, i would argue that was very, very, very cheap.
expecially considering the IMF are about to eat a 32bn Euro loss associated with IMF-held Greek sovereign debt. which leads me to - if the IMF reserves stand at 19bn, then surely the Greek default will wipe them out? or are they beneficiaries of continuous printing and backdoor bailouts as well?
31.9bn according to this -
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/...
"I welched on fhe debt now pay me your gold!"
Something doesn't sound right there...
Well US Banks can sell off the bad debt if they found a buyer like the Central bank.
But normally all businesses in the US have some bad debts and there is a tax write off.
And there must be an Accounting Function to move the debt from Accounts Receivable to Write off Bad Debts.
All of this hysterics about an event happening is just like Greece Falling from Grace.
- Except for the Credit Problems, Liquidity Problems, Credit Default Swaps, risk of CDS not being honored or paid, and other derivatives and Money Flow Problems that lead to contagion
- Capitalism used to have a mechanism for defaults, and even the Resolution Trust Corporation for use with Receivership
President bombs Athens into oblivion...asks if five percent sounds better?
AlaricBalth, sounds a bit like money laundering
The Imperial Monetary Fund
Biggest "I told you so" since Lehman©.
Ya lets get this party started! Everyone in the world Default on 3! Lets do this you homosexual retard white cunts!
Wait....this is just a rumor right???
We are to request rebundle of the bundle of our payments.
I still don't see why Greece can't spin off one of its islands as a sovereign country and saddle it with all the debt.
Could rinse and repeat thousands of times.
Shhhh... Be quiet, that's what us poor slope-foreheaded morons out here in flyover country are planning to do to DC and we don't wanna ruin the surprise......
Better yet they should spin off one square meter of their sea floor and do the same. That is all that worthless fiat is worth.
Good idea but what happens when you run out of sea floor in thirty days?
Maybe they can chain Draghi and Merkel and dump them there.
No.. No No..
What they need to do is borrow another 500 B EU from Germany and build a Med Palm Jumera.
Brilliant, like a good bank/bad bank structure. It's cynical and a complete sophistry.
You do mean to "Pull an Enron" right? Put all the debt off-balance sheet.
Wait a minute, that is how GS helped Greece get into the EU.
All the pictures I see are nothing but old people - seriously. Where are the young productive citizens?
NoVa
GS recently has been very low profile in all of this, eh.
What Greece needs now are some 'Mirror bonds', with maybe a 'chewco' structure. That's chew as in 'Chewbacca'. No shit, I watched those structures get put together for ENE. If you are ever deciding on the fate of an investment banker, 'hang 'em high'.
why not call the island... let's say Cyprus... oh wait
Acrapolis
Best Kool-Aid Ever!!!!!!
Interesting!! hope no more soap episodes at least on this item.
Zerohedge, people like you will have slightly more responsibility here .. becasue of your reach .... Now, plan for a greek rescue ... so that basic humantarian aid is not denied. leaders across the world .. . you will have to come to the rescue of greeks .... German citizens should act first ... now is the time to show some solidarity ... make sure Greece is not taken to the corner.
http://just-a-thought-from-thinair.blogspot.com/
i think you're a little off, here.
zerohedge is doom and gloom porn. it's the counterweight to reading marketwatch. you read both, and the truth usually lie somewhere in the middle.
Thanks for your advise. I read many sources for whats in the news... i don't buy their anaysis. However, I don't have the right to judge zero hegde or any one directly for that matter. It is their job to judge themselves. People can see if they judged themselfves right or not. But, the fact is whether you like it or not both of us come here for some reason. Probably .. there are not many places to go.
Having said that, I have never heard zerohedge saying that they were wrong on any analysis ... that is hard to believe when I can see blatant flaws in many of their analysis.
i never see marketwatch or cnbc admit they were wrong, either.
I try, every now and then, to listen to mainstream economic commentary but find myself shouting at the radio or printed page "you fucking liar" or "you fucking idiot and all yer listeners" and then am obliged to turn off the input and desist from ever listening again (until the nextime).
You are not alone, I also suffer from the aliment known as, "awake and pissed off". Alcohol helps, I find that gardening (really disaster farming) also settles the nerves.
This is a current head line at Market Watch. "Why financial crisis in Greece won't hurt the US". http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-greek-crisis-wont-hurt-us-economy-2015-06-29?dist=countdown
Not worried about truth, I come here to study troll techniques. They really aren't that subtle on ZH, in fact they are so amateurish that they aren't really worth studying. I think they should go away and if someone is paying them, the payers are getting screwed.
Yeah, can't wait to see what tomorrow brings. In the mean time, Hot dogs! Cold Beer!!
"---creditors would still expect their money back--" There's an expression in Spanish that says, " waiting for loaned money to be paid, is like waiting for rain from a clear blue sky". There's another one, that I like a lot that says; " No hay El que fio; porque todos salieron de la madre debiendo"--- "There is no honest man; because everyone of them left their mothers, owing."
Catholic guilt trip.
It used to make people behave... somewhat.
I, on the other hand, know exactly how I got here.
Mom and Pop didn't learn their lesson the first few go arounds, so now you're stuck with the consequences. Fuck the Pope and use a rubber.
Sort of like Greece. Everyone loves the party but nobody likes paying the caterer.
What's the big deal? Spain, I believe, defaulted about 40 times throughout its history. In fact they made it a good habit to leverage their silver, borrow a lot against it and then refuse to give the metal away. And they did it over and over again. Somehow people kept lending them money.
Greece? Well, it's "cradle to grave of civilization", as I often joke. No big deal. It's not even a big country. Derivatives? Sure! But just wait till the storm reaches France or even Germany. Wait for the big players to default. Then it'll be serious.
Greece, technically went belly up back in 2008. All this can kicking was never about rescuing them. Shifting the blame and getting someone else to hold the bag, while ransacking public coffers and moving PM's out, like the IMF does with every economically occupied banker colony - that's why we ended up delaying the obvious.
I say, no big deal. The market was overvalued anyway. Bad news was good news way too long and Greece has nothing to do with it. Market is rigged and if it's crashing, it's because it was long overdue.
Welcome back to 2008, ladies and gentlemen! It never actually ended.
Lol.
The moral of the story is that it's not enough to get em down but the real dough is made by kicking the shit out of them when they're crawling away.
Gott sei Dank!
Now let the derivative$ avalanche loose and bring down this perverted and evil Anglozionazi €mpire of Chao$.
they will do everything in their power to prevent this being declared a credit default event and causing engagement of the death star's derivative domino event.
Umm yeah, IMF already said it will consider Greece "in arrears" if it misses payment, not 'in default'.
And when the people who bought CDSs as insurance don't get paid by Greece or the issuer of the CDSs, there will be a loss of faith in that system. They may be able to put those people off for a month or two, but eventually, something has gotta give. Especially if the people with the Greek bonds and CDSs start defaulting on their obligations. The IMF can ignore reality, but it cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.
i wonder if there is much CDS written on the IMF loans... i'm betting those were not funded by broadly marketed bonds, but that's just a guess. but if the IMF loans just came out of a general development fund, it may not have been possible to make a market for derivitives for that package.
IOW, the IMF default may intentionally be the first because the follow on consequences are being explored on a (more) managable scale.
but what the hell do i know...
Everything in their power !! Ahh; yes, the POWER. You did know that Mario Draghi can twiddle his thumbs behind his back and whistle at the same time, right ? Verrry impressive "powers" they got. Like, uhh; wait a minute, humm; well, I"m sure they have some.
But how long will it be before anyone officially recognizes it as a CDS-triggering default event?
If this turns out to be true watch Juncker/Merkel/Lagarde all DEMAND a referendum...sometime in the future.
It will be recognized only after the elites and politicians get their money out of any CDS exposed institutions about to go belly up. The plebs will lose all their money.
Seems like they have been working overtime on that already; so could be any time?
Why did Goldman and Morgan need to become FDIC insured?
They were huge in getting their money from money-market funds. That was cheap, but uninsured and the average maturity was at best 30 days. Both Goldman and Morgan needed long-term capital to play with. What they needed were bank deposits from the average person to keep the game
going. The business model was changing, and they saw the light, and stole the idea from Lehman.
Page 6
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/looking-beh...
Seems to fit what you all are talking about.
Because the ISDA determination committee members are both the determining committee and the market makers, you can be assured it won't be until they have locked in their profits.
Interesting link hedgeless. The determination committee is likely to be the following:
So, yeah the chances of them shooting themselves in the head by declaring a credit event before they've covered themselves is a bit slim.
Source: from EMEA (Europe) on the decision about Ukraine State Export-Import Bank (Opens PDF file)
It's not hard to work out that the whole system is an incestuous orgy with the alumni from these organizations holding key government posts, key IMF posts & key ECB posts. I doubt that this level of corruption on a global scale has ever been seen before in history.
Great to have the details. THX
They choose to self identify as solvent and not in default. In technical parlance, it's known as the Dolezal option.
umdesch4, whoever makes the rules is the one to officially recognize it and since it's in every financial institutions best interests to NOT officially recognize it as a default, it won't be. They'll be arrears, serious arrears and super-duper-now we mean it-go to your room without dinner arrears, but there won't be a default.
Will be 50 shades of Greek. We are not there yet.
Of course, its the same reason they called monetization of debt "quantitative easing". Play on words
Not until the right people are in control of the CDSs.
Approximately 3,979 years; with rounding errors.
I am starting to think that this Tsipras guy actually has some balls to fight the BIIS and all the other fuckers that run the banking system in europe. He may lose his job but I hope he will be looked at as a national hero some day. Tough job.
He's no hero, he's just playing his role. This referendum is going to pass, and Tspiras is going to resign and a unity government will reconvene to finish selling off whatever of value Greece has left.
Damn it I hate you right now SMG - because you're probably right.
I say "probably" because I'll never learn.
SMG is exactly right. Nobody wants to hear common sense. We are so thirsty for this type of news everybody is drinking the Kool Aid.
@SMG : Yep, and it will get sold cheap to their buddies just as Gerald Celente predicted. They'll get the electrical plants, water plants, gas pipeways, toll ways, 401K retirement accounts, etc. all for pennies on the dollar. Or maybe I should say pennies on the Drachma.
Yeah, pretty much.
Funny how euro denominated bunds are rallying though.
Why not just convert to rubles?
I doubt that Greeks will go back to square.
Hell to da YEAH! Make it real please.
As Gomer so eloquently stated - SURPRISE, SURPRISE legarde. But not paying isn't a default <sarc on> so why the excitement.
... and I will btfd ag again and again and again.
fuck 'em (bankers, not the greeks)
Fuck the Greeks just a little, just to remind em that personal austerity is a virtue never learnt by the Byzantines nor by their descendants. BUT fuck the bankers in the ninth circle of hell, over and over and over, cause greed is a universal and eternal vice.