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In Big Boost To "No" Vote, Schauble Hints Greece Can Default And Stay In Euro
In waht appears to be some level of German backing down, fiery FinMin Schaeuble has, reportedly said the following:
- SCHAEUBLE SAID TO SAY GREECE MAY BE ABLE TO TAP EU SUPPORT FUND
- SCHAEUBLE SAID TO SEE GREECE STAYING IN EURO EVEN IF 'NO' VOTE
More from Bloomberg:
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told lawmakers in Berlin that Greece would stay in the euro for the time being if Greek voters reject austerity in a referendum scheduled this week, according to three people present.
Schaeuble also said the European Central Bank would do what’s needed to protect the euro if Greeks voted against the bailout terms in the July 5 referendum, according to the people, all of whom participated in the closed-door meeting on Tuesday. They asked not to be identified, citing the private nature of the discussion.
The German Finance Ministry declined to comment.
Which incidentally, is good news for Tsirpas as it spurs the probability of a consequence-less "no" vote on Sunday enabling the increased negotiating position that The Greek government had hoped for. Of course, with month-end looming and a market that just gave up all 2015 gains, stocks and EUR are rallying on this and bonds are selling off, if only until the next rumor, and then the next, until we finally get clarity at 5pm Eastern when the news of whether Greece defaulted to the IMF or not hits, and is therefore officially out of its bailout program.
So now EUR is rallying because an EU with Greece is a stronger EU?
Charts: Bloomberg
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ZH is hot tonight!
More rumors please.
Greece should annex Puerto Rico and rename it Puerto Greeko. ;-)
Looney
Which makes Greece just an EU zombie cut off from ECB funding.
It's all over so STFU Schaeuble
After being widely panned for daring to suggest Greece might default but still stay in the Euro, now they're starting rumors about what I was told was virtually impossible.
I feel a micro-aggression coming on.
I feel your micro-aggression pain
One Aleve and a quart of Moonshine help to get rid of the “pain” and "micro". ;-)
Looney
The ECB and IMF need Greece a lot more than Greece needs them. Greece has it's own government, so it can just use a printing press of it's own, or, if it wants to take the moral highroad and lead the world back to sanity it can go to a commodity backed currency.
I am offended that you feel pain.
Man up.
How can Greek be kicked out of the Euro when there is no mechanism for kicking a country out of the Euro? Its supposed to be forever.
OK, so this means Greece defaults, as in no payments, starts a drachma currency unit and stays in the EU for priviliged trade etc purposes.
Well played gentlemen
Rid oneself of the pain and suffering while remaining a symbiotic eater off the corpse of the EU
Anyone but me see the desperation here, in the EU going to any length to remain a "Glorious Harmonious Entity"?
The experiment must not fail!
Wolfgang is just talking out of his hat to move the algos a bit. It's his turn in the barrel and they DID say they would do anything to stabilize the euro.
Like the US.
You'll get NOTHING. And LIKE it.
Oh, and, please keep buying our shit.
The goal of the chosenites is to consolidate power around the world. They will not let Greece exit.
This weeks drama is to get the Greeks beg for slavery within the Euro.Scare them into voting to stay in at any cost.
Yeah. And then Italy, Spain, France and everybody else starts asking for the very same accommodation in the name of "structural harmony"
For you Don Draper fans, enuf said, "Harmony" (while I poke your eyes out, fellow traveler)
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=id+like+to+buy+the+world+a+coke+ad...
got no credit? no problem. come on down to Euroland and let us put you in one of these beautiful models...
A real cliffhanger right now.
Nah, izzall fixt, pssssht
Schnauble
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0c/6a/9e/0c6a9e9509f7c223adfeb...
Schauble--->Get those lazy Greeks out of the Euro
Schauble--->Please Greece, stay in the Euro. I was only kidding.
In the famous words of Tony Montana - "Another qualude and she gonna love me again!"
In the famous words of Tony Montana - "Another qualude and she gonna love me again!"
Schnauble:
Greeks get NO more bailouts, but they can stay and buy our shit & help OUR economies.
And then after a "no" vote comes through we will find out that there was never any statement made that Greece could default and still stay in the Euro. Both parties will dance around for a while, and then I will receive my AARP card in the mail.
greece is embarrassing germany and the us. they are defaulting on loans from US and German taxpayers and then are going to be allowed to go back to the well for more. Add in the fact they gave their citizens an extra 4 months with the Feb "extension" and i cant help but applaud Tsipras for playing the cronies they was they deserved to be played. afterall, greece holds all the cards.
No. They are defaulting on loan amounts made by stupid bankers etc. The bankers were smart enough to see their mistake and get the governments to bail them out by bailing out Greece. The Greeks will never be able to repay the debts, even if they wanted to. Better to stop the insanity now, default and regroup. Next time the governments should not be so stupid to bail out the banksters ... except because the banksters own the government ... unlikely. Round and round we go ... elites win, we lose ... over and over again.
"No. They are defaulting on loan amounts made by stupid bankers etc"
they are defaulting today on money they owe the IMF. the IMF got the money from the US. the IMF issued this debt to Greece so Greece could pay back bankers. the last 5 years has been all about moving debt off the balance sheets of banks and onto the taxpayers of the US and Europe.
Can't we punish the iMF by giving them Puerto Rico somehow? "Hey, your problem now!"
No way, Puerto Rico will cut you, mang
One of the best played hands on the international geopolitical stage, ever!
Masterful. Golf claps all around, boys
They are not there yet, but the Greece situation is a big step toward getting the EU under one governing body. Greece is being used as a crises to institute a "stronger EU" where taxes and law making is more centralized. Brussels will state Greece is evidence that tax law and welfare system needs to be controlled by Brussels. The EU contries will agree and give up sovereigntly. Brussels wants a "USA" type union. It wont work, they will still try.
Can't let the debt slaves escape, as 50 years from now someone somewhere in Greece might be able to make an interest payment. Never let a defaulted debtor go to waste.
i told you. the only effective answer to the reptiles is an adamant, persistent, absolute "no!". once they realize you ar serious they come back to the table. the flaw in their game is the knowlege they will actually do anything to avoid a haircut. once the scissors are out they have to negotiate but in weakness. the dumbfucks fuck themselves in the end.
what the Greeks seem to fail to understand is that being broke, they have surrendered their freedoms. They might stomp their feet and DEMAND justice, but they are suffering the justice from their own hands. The debt will NOT be written off as it has far too much value AS DEBT, so Greece is on the hook forever. And of course they want to stay in as it is the only source of free money (while completely ignoring its true cost). Their only way out is through prudent conservative economic principles, and the longer they avoid them the longer the pain will last. The EU's goal has ALWAYS been about control, and debt gives them all the leverage they need to impose it. Greece will, after all of their protests and cries of injustice, come crawling back begging any and all gratuities for survival....anything and everything that will provide the same free money that their dependencies have been based upon. Not all that much different than the street beggars who would rather stand in the rain begging than SUBMIT, yet still not recognize that they have no integrity as they still survive on charity.
Stand up, take responsibility for your choices, bad and good, and move on.
Ultimately Greece is little different from the rest of the world. Their disadvantage is size. They can be bullied and easily made an example for the rest. The whole damned thing is bust and when countries start calling it to direct attention, shit starts going down hill. The EU is calculating the risks of Greece default against the rest of the broke ass nations doing the same. This is why it has been handled this way. Public and ugly against Greece. I think they are hoping the Greek government and activists will be forced to capitulate and lose any political power while still keeping Greece within the union and under their direct control. The other nations must see that there is no escape, no options to the union. Greece will be sacrificed. It will become a backwater pariah. No one will want to follow in their footsteps. They WILL NOT be allowed to emulate Iceland.
or they can declare bankruptcy, go back to the drachma, let forex decide its worth, go through a severe period of self imposed austerity rather than an eu imposed austerity a la iceland and in a few years with the russian gas pipeline everything will be extra virgin olive oil and feta cheese.
If they can survive as a closed economy...maybe. But the EU can make their international circumstances pretty tough. Declare bankruptcy and then go buy a new car. If you can pull it off, you will pay out the ass in interest and down payments.
The EU has them by the nuts...one way or another they will pay. An the EU is the only EASY source of funding. What insane person would accept drachmas in payment for any foreign trade? Or buy their bonds? They have a terrible history of default and the EU is the ONLY entity that can shelter them from that history. They made a deal with the devil and there is no easy way out.
And the reason this had come to a head is BECAUSE they have rejected austerity, so why would they abandon free money for the sake of austerity in the Drachma? Suffering the socialist mentality, they have still not given up on the availability of "other people's money". Austerity is not optional. Ultimate we all must live within our means and if the money isn't there, you do without. Maybe burning one's crops is the only reliable way to weight loss? The best austerity is that which is undertaken voluntarily. waiting for it to be mandatory or forced is the most painful way possible.
you need to look at the iceland case. the eu tried to shake the down for "debt" owed to the eu. iceland refused to pay it. the imf restructured their real debt. the revalued krona caused inflation(ironically what the fed and eu have failed to do even as they want it), the people gladly suffered austerity they imposed upon themselves and are now free of the shackles of the globalist bankers. people will do to themselves what they will fight to keep other people from doing to them. putin has practically guaranteed cash and gas flow in the future. the future is as bright as can be expected after bankruptcy.
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so if asians do supremely better(as they are) as a demographic in the economy nothing will happen to them? dumbass. that is dumb free speech and you are welcome to appear as dumb as you like. that is america.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 12:05 | 6254337new JoJoJo
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Asians are obviously exempt. 1. They are a minority 2. They don't have the power of "the man." 3 Calling them Asians may be microagressive.
"If they can survive as a closed economy...maybe. But the EU can make their international circumstances pretty tough"
What closed economy? to begin with, Greece's accounts are balanced. Without the odious debt, she can do perfectly alright on her own. Secondly, to the East, the road is open for Greece. Russia will be more than happy to have a legal foot in a EU country and will happily pay for that.
Thirdly, a new alternative to the IMF has just opened.
The only thing the EU stooges can do is stir civil unrest, launch one of their horrendous "color revolutions" or attempt a coup. That kind of moves, believe me, are going to be scrutinized by all the populations of the EU. So the EU crooks should calm the fuck down if they don't want the Greek pattern to repeat itself in Spain, Portugal, the UK, Italy, France, etc, and end up with a horrible mess.
We EU people voted in DEMOCRACIES, not freaking fascists.
So while Merkel, Hollande and co push for the case that this is a vote for or against the Euro, Schäuble is going against the mainstream once again. It's like his job is to say the opposite of what Merkel says.
How big is Deutsche Bank's derivative portfolio anyway? $54 trillion or more than that?
Meanwhile, German GDP is $3.6 trillion.
This and the fact that the germans/eu need to close the greek thing quickly. Tsipras gave them the method and the german fin min just worked it out and refined it: Referendum where greeks vote NO (per Tsipras), despite the NO greece stays in europe/eurozone (per Schauble) and in a show of magnanimous solidarirty the EU agrees a package for greece that incudes large economic development fund (Juncker already mentioned it) and a substantial debt forgiveness (as Lew asked couple of days ago)
There are already 2 funds for eurozone defaults. Looks like we are going to have at least a dozen of them in next 5 years. For every new country in default let's create a new fund.
The banksters really think everyone is retarded.
Five more days of global water cooler discussions. The longer this plays out the more this is being discussed gobally by the pleebs and commoners. The more that happens the more people are waking up. The whole Western Banking family system is being reveiled for what it is. So many stories of who these people are and where they came from are being foisted amongst to people that the very idea of such a ayatem is no longer a conspiracy theory but now more and more a conspiracy fact. And now that that concept has been accepted the outrage will grow. The system is failing and with the existance of the BRICS as an alternative the question is now not that we just have to accept our fate but how do we stop it and where do we go from here. The system is failing and the internet has allowed it and they know it. The rapid development of these milatary interventions and insane trade pacts show the desperation, but its too late. The cat is out of the bag.
Although you may be correct; there exits a vast printing press used for nation controls and serfdom and works quite well for now. Oh well, we will see how this all plays out and for all we know this is a "test case" for the banking cartel just as Cyprus was. This is taking it incrementally to the next level; again we will see how it plays out, but Greece will not leave the EU for strategic reasons if nothing else.
Pretty good life..dont pay your bills..but still get to be a member....and why and what for....Greece can only go on if they can get more loans....or print their own money....now who is stupid enough to give them more loans...I know I should not have asked that question...
Perhaps you are thinking of moving to Greece or maybe just take a vacation right now? Not a place anyone wants to be.
A 'No' vote but staying in the euro would be the middle of the end of the euro.
Technically they cannot kick someone out of the Eurozone, there is no established procedure for this. But they can make sure that after a default Greece will be brought to a position were they will be literally begging to leave. I think this is the plan. They want Greece out, but they have no way to do it all by themselves.
They do not want Greece out, if that were the case, then they would have never let Greece in. Greece is in and will stay for no other reason than to keep the Russians and Chinese out of a strategic location. Location is the real issue and the reason why they will default and yet stay in the EU. After the default, the EU will hang this around their necks till they choke.
He certainly can talk the talk but not sure he can .....
His statement is counterintuitive as it makes a no vote more likely. I suspect someone has got him by the balls - like JP Morgan or Goldman. Indeed JP Morgan has just cornered the PM derivative market and has a huge stash of silver. Maybe Schauble is been played. Al these bastards want is money, money and more money. If that means playing geo- political games that totally screw the system - that's fair game.
A no vote means shit. They still owe the money and will not be allowed to function in a world economy as long as they refuse to acknowledge it and come to some settlement. Ultimately they will stay in the EU and The EU will set forth the "rules". If Greece wants to survive they will be forced to accept anything the EU wants including all taxes. The EU wants the equivalent of the IRS to prevent some nations like Ireland from having taxes on income too low (creating what they would consider an unfair trade advantage). I fully expect to see an EU tax agency auditing ALL Greek tax returns. THEY WILL GET THEIR MONEY. All that is needed is a promise to specific Greek leaders that they will be allowed to retain their power and the rest will roll in like Panzers into Paris.
For all the talk, it's just not in the EU's advantage to let Greece leave.
Their thinking will be of maintaining a grip of control and influence over Greece going forward.
Too much political capital has been invested in the one way cult....Greece knows this and is exploiting it quite well.
Only problem is that the problems will not be solved with an inherently bad design like the Euro without major structural changes and trimmings.
Europe will simply end up bailing itself out every single time, until it can't do so any longer.
I think the design is "inherently exactly what they wanted and needed" to impose their will over sovereign states. It could happen no other way. Just as our civil war empowered our federal government much more and faster than could have been achieved in any other way. CRISIS is the mother of tyranny.
Could be.
The Euro is looking like one big honey trap for suckers.
Easy money is EVERYONE'S weakness. You must remain strong to survive, else become the bitch to the devil.
Hey Schaub - where were these offers when Greece was at the table?
There's no such thing as a semi ultimatum...
Until now.
Who is this mere German Finance Minister who decides Sovereign's fate?
Banksters' spokesman, apparently. Now it's finally clear what Schauble's role is. As the MSM never rises this question, they can do things openly.
And who had a little quiet chat with Schauble to "persuade" him to let Greece stay in the EU? Because if Greece leaves the EU, that leaves it open to join the Eurasian Economic Union. Who exactly were those anonymous people in the meeting with Schauble? I bet there was at least one American.
Girlfriend says no, guy starts to leave.
Girlfriend say Ok, but just a little...
Stay tuned.
Don't worry, it's just the Greek tip
Reminds me of that movie where the couple rent an apt. to a psycho and then want to toss him out but are afraid he'll destroy the house if they do.
It was a horror movie ...lol.
That is the prefect solution. We know Greece cannot be allowed to leave the EU for no other reason Greece's strategic location. So like the Hotel California, you can check out (keep self inflicting) anytime you want, BUT you can never leave.
kind of like filing a restraining order against the exhusband but being afraid he will kill you if you do? Sooner or later you run out of other peoples money. IRS? Are you listening? Coming to a "free nation" near you soon.
At this point the Troika will say, do and lie about anything to stop “contagion" from happening...