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Greece Becomes First Developed Country To Default To The IMF
Faced with almost impossible choices...
And just as promised earlier in the week, Greece has now passed the midnight deadline for repayment of the €1.6 billion bundled loans due to the IMF and in thus in default.
Yes we are fully aware that using the pejorative term 'default' makes us members of the ignorati, but what else do you call it when you fail to pay back a contracted debt in a timely fashion? (and don't say 'arrears') Anything else is semantics.
- *IMF SAYS GREECE FAILED TO MAKE PAYMENT DUE TUESDAY
- *IMF TO CONSIDER GREEK REQUEST FOR PAYMENT DELAY IN DUE COURSE
- *IMF BOARD INFORMED THAT GREECE IS NOW IN ARREARS
“I can also confirm that the IMF received a request today from the Greek authorities for an extension of Greece’s repayment obligation that fell due today, which will go to the IMF’s Executive Board in due course,” IMF spokesman Gerry Rice says in e-mailed statement.
This is the first time an advanced economy has defaulted to The IMF and is by far the largest default The IMF has ever faced.
Below is the full list of countries who are (ahem Zimbabwe) or have been in "protracted arrears" to the IMF in the past. Greece is now officially on this list.
And as AP reports,
Greece's international bailout formally expires, country loses access to existing financing.
What happens next:
And therefore Greece is poised between remaining a member of the eurozone or leaving it. In fact, as WSJ's Stephen Fidler explains, there are five possible future currency arrangements for Greece. Here they are...
1. Greece stays in the eurozone: This is the option likely to cause the smallest short-term disruption to the Greek economy. The Greek central bank would retain access to liquidity from the European Central Bank, and the Greek banks would stay on life support. This looks increasingly likely to be accompanied by some kind of further negotiated debt relief. To get it, Greece would almost certainly have to agree to more conditions of the sort successive Greek governments have found it hard to accept.
2. Greece keeps the euro, but sits outside the eurozone: Jacob Funk Kierkegaard of the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington calls this the “Montenegro option” and argues this is the most likely outcome should Greece exit the eurozone. This would not be “a new drachma, but Montenegro—i.e. Greece becomes just another relatively poor unilaterally euroized non-EU Balkan economy,” he writes here. In some ways, this would be the worst of all worlds because Greece would lose access to the ECB. Countries using a foreign currency as legal tender have no access to a lender-of-last-resort, which means that every bank liquidity crisis becomes a solvency crisis. They therefore tend to have stunted domestic financial sectors — which almost every academic study shows is bad for growth — or have a banking system owned by foreigners, which exports the lender-of-last resort role to other countries’ central banks. (Mexico didn’t adopt the dollar after the 1994-95 financial crisis — but in order to avoid an undue shrinkage of its banking sector, it allowed most of its banks to be bought by foreigners.)
3. A currency board: In this case, Greece would create a new currency but lock it to the euro – as Estonia did with the German mark in 1992 after it gained independence from the Soviet Union. The amount of new drachmas in circulation would be limited by the size of Greece’s international reserves: about $5.8 billion at the last count. Advocates argue that this would impose discipline on the Greeks — poor economic policies lead to an outflow of reserves and therefore of the domestic monetary base, which pushes up drachma interest rates, while good policies have the reverse effect. The drawback is that again the central bank is limited in its lender-of-last resort powers because it cannot create money freely. It also imposes discipline that, for now, may make it look unappetizing to Greece’s current rulers. It’s not much talked about, has a few enthusiastic and long-standing cheerleaders, but is a theoretical possibility. Here’s Steve Hanke arguing in favor.
4. A dual system: Here the drachma and the euro would circulate side-by-side. This has many historical precedents going back centuries. In practice, a dual system is likely to emerge when the Greek government runs out of euros and has to pay its domestic bills in government IOUs. The IOUs could at some future date be redeemed in euros, or could be eventually redeemed in drachmas, but they would initially be euro-denominated obligations of the government that would have a lesser value in the public mind than euro notes or coins. This state of affairs could continue for a long time, but there is an economic tendency called Gresham’s Law: ”Bad money chases out good.” Over time, euros would disappear from circulation because people would hoard them as a store of value – and people would spend the government IOUs. De facto, the drachma, whether or not it would so be called, would become the main means of exchange.
5. The new drachma: The move to the new drachma may well not come with a bang, but gradually — as described in 4 above. But an eventual formal switch of the currency would give Greece control over its own monetary policy. However, a new currency — which would likely float against the euro and other major currencies — would likely create enormous short-term disruption, not least because a heavy devaluation would follow and the banks would in effect be insolvent. Longer-term, it could be a motor for future growth of the Greek economy — because it would stimulate demand for Greek exports by lowering in real-terms the price of goods and services produced in Greece. Longer term, the effects of a devaluation depends on the quality of economic policies that accompany it. It will create inflation, by increasing the costs of imports. One important issue is how much the government raises wages and pensions to compensate for higher inflation. The more domestic wages and pensions are allowed to rise, the less impact the devaluation will have in simulating Greek exports longer term and the lower the benefits to economic growth.
Place your bets.
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"money is gold, and nothing else" - JP Morgan
"Gold Is Currency; No Fiat Currency, Including the Dollar, Can Match It" - Alan Greenspan
So in the end, the difference to the guy on the street is next to nothing and I have waisted like 22 hours of my life reading about all this.
Nein. It's over.
Germany has decided to pull the plug, and stop the losses. The only thing left to do is make this painful enough to scare the shit out of Italy and Spain...,
That won't work either.
And in the next episode...
Throw those worthless Greeks back into the euro!!
I guarantee one thing no matter what path is taken, Greece’s debt will not be paid, along with a lot of other sovereign debt. Unpayable debt is not an asset, no matter what Krugman might say.
Greece just folded. The Yes vote has a clear lead, banks are all but out of money already, which means that till Sunday everyone will want Tsipras's head on a platter. Tomorrow they'll arrange for a new MoU hoping to save some face or alternatively their lives from lynching
If Greece goes the iceland route, defaults and puts the banksters in jail, only then can Greece begin to recover.
Just like Iceland.
Dear IMF,
Go fuck yourself and cram your created from thin air debt up your ass.
Signed,
All 7 billion rational little people on the Earth
Yawohl, mein Oberst !!
Wait wait wait wait wait
Last I heard was that the EU bigamajiggies said that they thought that the Greeks could stay in the Eu regardless of outcomes with the debt, aka can stay if they default.
Last I heard was that the Eu bigamajiggies said that Greece could stay in the EU even if they left the Euro
And last I heard was that Greece wanted to stay as a part of the EU, the rest of the drill, be damned.
And Greece holds all the cards, the interest and principal payments being merely the lever for the rest of the conditions, so looks to me like Greece defaults, reestablishes the Drachma and stays a EU member.
Unfortuantley it would appear that the rest of the bigamajiggies in Europe don't see the full picture of debt repayments being one small action inside a much larger objective
US IMF quota: 17.7%, next largest: Japan 6.6%, Germany 6%, France 4.5%
Number of IMF success stories: 0.
how long before that 112 tons of phyzz gold Greece has gets "liberated" from them?
Japan and China have over a TRILLION in treasuries EACH.
"Get to work Europa."
Thanks for the story!
I am watching Greece to imagine how this will play out in the US. No template will be the same for each event but it is wise to watch and learn!
Good Stuff ZH
Wait til Greece goes off the euro, goes back to the drachma, and then prints the fucking crap out of it to finance their sputtering welfare-state - that's what the terminal crisis will look like when it comes to the US.
Varoufakis must be talking with counterparts in Reykjavik and Moscow.
Ironic that the latest bankster house of cards begins its fall in Greece. Talk about coming full circle! How bad do things have to get this time, before people throw off their chains?
They really haven't defaulted. The money will be paid back--one way or the other. Mark my words.
What's up with the CDS that, if triggered by this default, were supposed to cause financial armageddon?
Credit Default Swaps are triggered when the IMF announces that Greece has defaulted. Greece has defaulted, but the IMF calls it "Arrears" meaning a delay of payment. Anything to keep the broken evil system from shattering. So this will go on maybe until late september... say September 23, 2015 perhaps.
I was looking for option "IMF gets its money back" but failed to see that one on the list.
Did I miss something?
Looks like the International Mother Fuckers are going to have to whip up a fresh batch of SDR's out of thin air [backed by the people's future labor] to make up the shortfall.
There's one argument out there that this is all the lazy Greek's fault and this is where it really stops holding water. The motherfuckers at IMF know this happened and are just going to make believe that it didn't. This is why I'm an advocate for chopping the entire world of finance, lock stock and barrel, from humanity. With extreme prejudice I might add.
the central bank's system, enslave a free people to debt, capture all assets through boom and bust with currencies it creates out of thin air. this is why the patriots who designed our system listed only gold and silver as the national and honest currency. the jew system is a debt based system designed for enslavement to jews and for the enrichment of their financial structures. AKA THE SYSTEM IS WORKING PERFECTLY IN GREECE AND AROUND THE GLOBE.
All the lazy Greek's fault? No.
Was it the Greek government's fault for a lot of this mess? Yes.
The root cause for the Greece debt explosion was a combination of a decade-long pre-existence of high structural deficits and high debt-to-GDP levels. It happened well before the Lehman/2008 collapse.
Fact: During the six years from 2004 to 2009, Greek government expenditures increased by 87% against an increase of only 31% in tax revenues.
Fact: The retirement age used to be 55 years in Greece but was increased to the current 57 years for a full pension.
Fact: For decades, Greek governments paid civil servants bonuses for showing up to work on time and 14 months' pay for Christmas. Retirement averaged at 53 years of age for civil servants.
To suggest that the Greek government has been totally responsible and without fault is buying the bullshit narrative that they WANT you to believe.
double click again dumbell
Change that inbred backwoods flag you turd !
"The Flag of Why Hyperinflation Sucks."
Might have to pick up a few myself!
Back to huffpo asshole where you can be terminally offended..
The flag represents States Rights; as opposed to Lincoln's War on the States to obtain a state of submission and obediance to central authority; not what the Consitution was about. Too bad you're so easily misled by propaganda. Try reading a book some day.
If only there were 7 billion rational people in the world...
Then you and I would be totally misunderstood.
The problem is Wall St & their ilk think they are bad-ass gangsters, and think they can act in kind.
Hey Wall St - stop watching GoodFellas & pretending you are all that. You ain't - not even close.
Now go shine my fu#@King shoes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPtjyqgZAUk
Greece: My offer is... nothing.
Jews like to think they're Goodfella gansters until they actually come across some badasses. Then they usually go up in smoke.
All Jews?
So there you have it, Greece defaulted... derivatives meltdown next?
Wasn't the world supposed to end?
The illusion seems continue, nothings changed, thank you sir may I please have another...
Fiat money/debt IS the great illusion.
Free your mind.
What does IMF stand for? ah yes!! The Imperial Ministry of Finance. Which is a long winded title for the enforcer
Problem is the banksters are in Germany this time. Would be fun to watch though.
In Iceland, the whole banking system crashed in a time span of a few days, the currency, the Icelandic krona fell ca 50 percent, the stock market fell by 90 percent.
I think that if Greece wants to return to growth, then it will be necessary to get rid of the euro.
I suppose the most sensible option to chose would be the one where Greece has a future as a free independent country.
I think other countries should consider the possible advantages of leaving the currency union, since it should be clear by now that the current setup is not going to work out for a lot of smaller economies.
Of course, if the EU really wants to repair the European economy, then they should start by kicking Germany out of the euro.
Greece is not Iceland (unfortunately).
Iceland is a relatively free country, while Greece is a socialist clusterfuck.
Economic Freedom Index (out of 178):
Iceland = 26
Greece = 130 (worse than Nigeria, for instance)
Security of Property Rights Index (out of 97):
Iceland = 21
Greece = 50
Ease of Doing Business Index (out of 189):
Iceland = 12
Greece = 61
Iceland allowed debts to liquidate, markets to clear, and resources to be reallocated, thereby rebuilding the economy on a more sound foundation. The Greek economy won't be able to do that, being much too heavily regulated, controlled, planned, subsidized, nationalized, unionized, and taxed. These restrictions will prevent (or at least greatly slow) the readjustment process.
There is a big difference between Iceland and Greece.
Greece has been building up their national debt for quite some time on their own. Iceland is a case of private irresponsibility at private expense while Greece is more of a case of public irresponsibility at public expense.
Iceland's crisis was triggered by the failure of "private" banks; they had no national debt problem. They're also on a free-floating currency, which was collapsed to boost the country's export power (at the cost of significantly reduced buying power at home -- aka, it's like lowering everyone's salaries and flipping a lot of people upside down on their mortgages). Iceland refused to insure the losses of their banks, but did take huge loans (and implement austerity) to help restructure them during the bankruptcy proceedings; the banks are now worth enough to sell off assets to pay for their debts (although the UK and Netherlands still are suing over the delay).
Yes, default, as in Greece and the rest of the the world's money and banking system, is de falt of those who created it, have enriched themselves countless times over on account of it, and will bring the global economy to its knees for having done so.
They are prepared. Are you?
new drachma case n° 5 will never happen because of devaluation 24h after official launch... ruining greek to absolute zero.
sorry tyler, there is only 4 cases. and you can remove also the dual money system locked to euro because nodoby outside of it would be garanty to ever be locked, ( just like debt never paid back... )
so there is only 3 possiblities.
and if you apply grexit, confidence crisis leads europ to crack and break in parts so you can remove it too, there is only 2 cases, in both cases, they keep euro as currency.
you will see.
ho there are 12 idiots who don't get it, or refuse to see reality.
in my prevous form in this forum i always said, exit is not allowed.
you will see...
kaiserhoff, that sounds reasonable, but I wouldn't bet on that. Merkel, Schäuble, and Juncker are Euro fanatics. Their political future depends on saving the Euro. You cannot hope for rational decisions under these circumstances. Or do you have any insider information that actually "Germany has decided to pull the plug"?
Just reading tea leaves. Merkel is personally shooting down any cheerful nonsense coming out of Greece, within minutes.
The alphabet soup of agencies and intermediaries seem to be out of the loop, and backing off. Back to the nation states, as it has been for the last few hundred years.
Schauble wants Merkel to die over this. Junker is insane with power. Those two will save the Euro but only because it is their tool for creating a kind of monetary Fourth Reich . And that is about as rational as any of this is going to get for a while.
Merkel has a 60 000 Mio Problem if she doesnt save the greeks. anyhow..
No they're just grandstanding. I would love to see that, but it won't happen. This is for the cameras.
i cant believe they let this slip: Countries using a foreign currency as legal tender have no access to a lender-of-last-resort, which means that every bank liquidity crisis becomes a solvency crisis.
wait so every bank is insolvent unless they have indirect/direct access to a printing press? NO FUCKING SHIT!!!
Damn Krugman, we are never supposed to agree ever.
Paul Krugman Urges Greeks To Vote 'No' On Bailout Referendum (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/29/krugman-greek-bailout_n_7687960...)
The cynic in me says is "no" what the deep state wants?
Damn Krugman, we are never supposed to agree ever.
Paul Krugman Urges Greeks To Vote 'No' On Bailout Referendum (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/29/krugman-greek-bailout_n_7687960...)
The cynic in me says is "no" what the deep state wants?
Einverstanden.
+1. Yes Kaiser....the bumpy ups and downs of Greece and the ECB is becoming clear, whether Tsipras planned it or not, the ECB is looking like bullies, and popular view is changing as result. I mentioned Greece at a dinner party and the consensus was - leave the EU and default. David just kicked Goliath, and most of us like an underdog. Those aware, know this is important on many levels.
I like how people can't even IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITY of a gold standard, or even a much more likely pivot to Russia/China.
I could see Greece adopt the Ruble or the Yuan more than I see them keeping the Euro.
I also like the fact that no-one is talking about the Euro pinting facility in Greece. Print as many Greek Euros as they can before they are declared worthless, then modify the dies to look like some other country's. They will have to change out the entire money supply in a hurry with an entirely new design. NoKo is infamous for doing this.
Yeah I tried mentioning that yesterday and it wasn't received well.
I posted a 2012 Peter Schiff piece on the topic, but it is quite incomplete. I'd like to learn what is the process for the BoG to print euros, how serial numbers are attributed/registered, what legal/practical mechanisms exist to prevent an EMU member from printing "counterfeit" bills, etc. If anyone has info ...
Improper printing of Euro banknotes will not happen.
It would be the end of the tourism business if it did happen.
Why tourists dont like currency? I can assure you they do..
Wake up; Please. They're ALL COUNTERFEIT BILLS. This isn't a joke or an attempt to support an agenda; it's just a fact. All Euros are Counterfeit Bills; every one of them; always has been since day one.
CLASSIC MONOPOLY RULES
OBJECT: The object of the game IS to become the wealthiest player through buying, renting and selling property.
Each player is given $1,500 divided as follows: 2 each of $500s, $100~ and $50~; 6 $40~; 5 each of $10~,$5~ and $1s.
All remaining money and other equipment go to the Bank. Stack the Bank's money on edge in the compartments in the plastic Banker's tray.
THE BANK: Besides the Bank's money, the Bank holds the Title Deed cards and houses and hotels prior to purchase and use by the players. The Bank pays salaries and bonuses. It sells and auctions properties and hands out the proper Title Deed cards; it sells houses and hotels to the players and loans money when required on mortgages. The Bank collects all taxes, fines, loans and interest, and the price of all properties which it sells and auctions. The Bank never "goes broke."
If the Bank runs out of money, the Banker may issue as much more as needed by writing on any ordinary paper.
So easy a child can learn it.
Ain't that the truth.
That is the reason that the Game was created in 1903 as "The Landlord's Game"...to educate.
Ever read the history of Monopoly, the game?
Here is the history in video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz5H0cg2uXs
Here is the history on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_(game)
Surprisingly the video is more informative...
"And yet the story must be maintained: Greece must keep punishing its people to pay back the money being borrowed to make the payments on the unpayable loans. In the upside-down world we inhabit, Syriza, which has called a halt to this fiction, is a bunch of mad fantasists, while the troika that goes on acting as if the fictions were real is the voice of hard-headed realism. "
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/who-will-dare-say-out-loud-emperor-has...
Yes; it's profoundly meaningless. The IMF is a gigantic Bureaucracy; you can get the feel for this by reading their web-site. They never actually do anything; anyone can be in arrears for any amount of time imaginable; it just doesn't make any difference. Of course, there's a strong tendency for less foreign loans to arrive in the deadbeat country; but since that was what caused the problem in the first place; that's alright. Did you know that Greece owns, has purchased, German Submarines ? That's not a mis-print. Submarines, plural. Why ? What use are they to the Greek People ? Why, no use at all; but the purchase agreement was very useful indeed to the political appointee who got to sign the purchase contract; he got a nice big bribe. So this is the real nature of the problem; everyone is playing fast and loose with t he funny money; only the Citizens get left out.
they bought those subs, with the bailout money
guess you never WASTED time in school
Unplugged,
Is it just possible the gentlemen you quote said that because they actually owned or held a lot of gold ?
The value of gold is a social construct. It is quite obvious why people who own it want us all to believe it is the alpha and omega.
Got that right. Gold, like most anything is only what the buyer is willing to pay. Worth $60 per ounce, $1800 per ounce, now $1200 per ounce. Perception, psychology drives all markets-including that of gold.
You are thinking and pricing in dollars. Gold is value by itself as it goes beyond our fiat money system. The probelm is not the value of gold, but the value of everying else in gold.
Part of the problem also lies in the fact that most people see gold as nothing more than an investment.
While a "problem" for you, this is just proof of the point made by the above commentors.
Gold is worth what people will pay for it. If people have no faith in gold, and you want them to because you want to get rich off of it, then you have a "problem".
Similarly, someone who has lots of peanuts and wants to get rich off them has a "problem" if the masses fail to share their dream of peanuts being worth $1000 a package.
Your "problem" is precisely: how to convince others to give you more money for your products than they are willing to. This is a very common problem; it's not specific to gold.
For those of us who aren't hung up on gold, who haven't been duped into it, and who don't believe in it with religious conviction, that it's not highly valued in modern society is not a "problem", it's merely a fact.
" it's not highly valued in modern society"
Well you must have glossed over the fact that the rest of the world like China, Russia, India, etc. are buying it hand over fist (like global mine supply and more) for the last several years. And you are glossing over the fact that the Western media has been vigilant in denegrating the ownership of gold like a pack of obedient scoundrels and then there's that dumping of billions of ounces at all hours on the middle of the night in paper contracts to surpress the price every fucking week for years, and then theres that quote from Kissinger back in the 60's when he said "he who controls the price of gold controls the world." I guess if you leave those little things out your case is pretty good.
We went off the Gold Standard in foreign currency exchange terms, in 1971; when Nixon closed the "Gold Window". The Inflation became head-line news by 1974. The great and wise were convinced that the public was sufficiently brain-washed to continue to ignore Gold and Silver as their currency de-valued. They were wrong. Gold went from $40/oz. to a $100, then $250, then $450, and finally, after Volcker had raised interest rates on US Treasuries to over 12%; it peaked out at $800 and change and started down again. But only because the Govt. oiffered to pay you actually more than inflation to hold paper in dollars; for no other reason. It's neither highly valued nor lowly valued; but it will always reflect how that "full faith and credit" thing is doing.
It's a market, like any other market. If you were duped into buying it at $300/oz. and sold it again at $1800/oz. you wouldn't have any problem with it. Same with the Stock Market; if you bought B of A stock for $5, like I did during the crash, and sold it later for $11; there's no problem. If you were scared out of the market you shouldn't have been in, (because it was overpriced), and sold out your B of A stock at $6; losing over half your money; you'd have a problem. As it happens; it's time to buy Silver , now; the low for the year is already in; and the price will be increasing. Even for a one year t ime line it will work out alright; for a five year plan it'll be very, very important. Bad things are going to happen, and when bad things happen, mass psychology wants to hold something real as a store of value.
Most people in the states give little thought to gold other than it being jewelry.
Of course; t his is trivially true; but worth repeating; mass psychology and public opinion sets prices in markets. The question is, what sorts of things are likely to happen in the next few years and what effect will they have on public opinion and perception ? Are we entering a period of stability and growth; and financial responsibility ? Or a period of no growth, no stability, and serial financial catastrophes ? This is the question you want to ask yourself. Because the name of the game is "Futures". and you have to pick one. Not picking one is not an option.
If you're talking prices of financial assets, there are no markets. Pseudo markets, yes, but stocks are valued by algorithms and corporations issuing junk bonds (ZIRP) to finance stock buybacks.
"The value of gold is a social construct. It is quite obvious why people who own it want us all to believe it is the alpha and omega."
The value of an inch and a foot are also social constructs, but you still need a yardstick to measure the rest by.
Think of gold as a standard you measure the other currencies by and you'll get it.
GOLD! THE OTHER OTHER 6000 year old bubble
I think that people should step back and consider what makes gold a vehicle to house value:
1) It is rare. It cannot be printed. Its rarity also means that the costs of getting it are high, whether you are talking about a modern mining operation that uses enormous equipment, or somebody who walks into the mountains with a pack mule and hand tools. It represents a large time and energy expenditure.
2) It does not tarnish, and very few things will react with it chemically. This is a case of rust sleeping.
3) It is very dense, so you can put a large mass (i.e. a lot of value) into a small volume. Granted, not nearly as small as the RAM that stores a lot of the digits these days, but you can hold gold in your hands.
Piratepiet2; why are you so lazy ? why not t ake t he time to find out that Allan Greenspan didn't own any Gold ? J.P. Morgan was an extremely successful Capitalist who participated on a grand scale in the US Stock market, and so forth; he's merely telling you what his life long educatinal process has revealed to him. Of course, he did own Gold at the time; it was the Legal Currency of the United States.
read my post carefully : "owned or held" (in his capacity as Fed Chairman).
To the goldbugs : you better ring the alarm, because sombody is really breaking out of the matrix, bitchez :-)
pathetic; meaningless bleating.
Maybe better to really sink all the gold in the deepest ocean, my friend
Does gold not stand for conflict, fear, greed, distrust, deceit ?
Don't we need cooperation, trust, loyalty and sacrifice ?
You a funny guy! Apparently ignorance and pollyanna outlooks are in good supply, let me guess your sporting a co-exist sticker on the PIUS, amiright?
always good to have more than one.
hold on, hold on. who says we are in default? and even if we are, it's just a word. and words can mean whatever we want them to. I mean, if some retard can get a blue ribbon in a competition just like everyone else than there is no real meaning to the blue ribbon, right? no meaning in the d word either. the rest of you guys will catch up soon enough. we are just on the cutting edge of insolvency, ahead of the crowd.
"... and words can mean whatever we want them to"
That is insane.
The reason that there are languajes is that all of its words are defined.
Try to have a conversation with anyone where you define Yes as No and the other person defines No as Yes.
Words change meaning when the rulers or popular social movement adopts and changes a meaning, to subvert a thing.
Look at the meaning of the word "liberal" in 1900...then 1960...then look again at its meaning in 1990. 180 deg flip. Now why do you suppose that is ?
"money is gold, and nothing else" - JP Morgan
"Gold Is Currency; No Fiat Currency, Including the Dollar, Can Match It" - Alan Greenspan
Try to explain this to "EXCEPTIONAL" Americans. They look at you like you are crazy.Probably just a coincidence...
Russia's Satellite Nuclear Warning System Down Until November
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-satellite-nuclear-warning-system-down-until-november/524744.html
Oh, and then there's
China Report On Human Rights Record of the United States in 2014
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42282.htm
Used to be that a country would send in an army and raid and pillage until it gathered up the assets owed...
1. default
2. default
3. default
4. default
5. default
There is one path and that is default. Why? Because even 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 20 years from now, they will still be paying the IMF interest that will be costing them whatever plus side to GDP they have. They will be gicing all their savings to the IMF. That is default of a State.
Greece has already defaulted...they did that TODAY when they failed to pay the IMF.
Now they have decided on a plan of action where "no one gets any money"...meaning they have no paper currency circulating internally...which of course is totally insane.
This will be true "for only a week or so" by which time the Banks and Markets will open to a people who's future has been VASTLY diminished.
What happens after that I have no idea...but obviously this will start spreading throughout all of Europe as all the nations are forced by the market to take to take the ULTIMATE haircut...namely by having to ditch the euro and go back to whatever they used to call money over there.
Good luck finding dollars, rubles, pounds...hell even Turkish Lira...
Oh the horror of having to actually work for a living...
fuck off. Let the greeks fix Greece.
It has some effect on places outside of Greece. Not disagreeing with what you posted, but. Hell even Germany will feel the reduction in auto sales.
The world is a multidimensional place
6. Kick the can again, then default anyway.
Number 6 gets my vote too, El Vaquero... Only I think they'll kick the can several times... None of the the politicians in the EU want to be seen as responsible for the clusterfuck that would result from Greece leaving the Euro... after all, the politicians are all still going to be collecting their big fat paychecks, and the majority of EU electorate have no idea how the money system works.
1. default. Greece uses Basket of Currencies (EUR, Lira, Ruble, Yen), pegged to Gold.
2. default. Greece joins AIIB and BRIICS as Associate Member... Makes shipping deals with Med countries.
3. default. Greece leaves EU and NATO, leases Naval harbor to Russia. Signs non-aggression and Defense pact.
4. default. TPTB sharpen knives and say "Die, you gravy-sucking PIG!"1
5. default. Greece responds "We Are Greece! Die, you blood-sucking vampires!"
6. Dominoes start falling: Other PIGS follow suit, Germany goes back to DEM.
7. Eurasian Silk Road resumes. Dollar falls below 50% global market share. [cue Beethoven] Dah, dah, dah, dum!
[1] Steve Martin quote
Fn YAWWWWWWN
Ever notice how the "last resort" quickly becomes "the goal"?
Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
<-- I will live to see the end
<-- this shitshow will outlast me
the cartoon was suprisingly clever and kinda funny though...now back to watching paint dry instead of reading more crap about Greece.
Whatever Greece chooses I hope it is for their best, and ours also.
It start out slow and default can happen VERY FAST!
But if the 12th hour passes and the word default hasn’t fallen, it means that the can is kicked 5 more days.
And that opens a door to more shit as there will be a few who chicken out.
"A nation goes broke slowly...then all at once."
The euro and everything denominated in it can literally disappear overnight.
Hold onto those dollars like Clint Eastwood!
All my money is in dollars right now, only 7k in euro’s right now and that’s for my vacation to’south Italy for the next 4 weeks.
and it’s all in 3 trading accounts just in case.
This euro shit could escalde pretty fast
Now we Europeans have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Your post is...apparently testimony that you want to Euro to fail ?
My bet is you will look "silly" in a few months time.
Better to look silly, than be totally impoverished.
My guess is that you are young.
It doesn't matter what you look like,at all,at all, unless you are.
Youth is wasted on the young.
Thanks, I get your points.
but I am not that young (36)
No. I do not believe that you get it. Oh but you will. That is a guarantee.
The problem with the current paradigm is that it values image over that of substance.
Appearance is everything whereas true value is dismissed.
PERCEPTION over reality is what is valued by far too many...including you.
Well that is DENIAL OF REALITY at best and downright DELUSIONAL INSANITY at worst.
But unfortunate for you the CONSEQUENCES of the reality will not be able to be denied.
And your faith in that which you propose will encounter the reality and reality will always win that battle.
Thus you will suffer most when faced with reality of the lack headed your way.
You can delay the consequences of reality for awhile...at great expense.
An Aircraft may fly but it naturally is attracted toward the center of the Earth. Of course at the great expense of fuel it can remain airborne, for days, for weeks, and even, quite possibly, for years if Tanker Aircraft continue to refuel that aircraft.
But that aircraft will come back down to the Earth, controlled, or uncontrolled, it will return to the surface of the Earth.
And WHEN it runs out of fuel, it will crash.
The IMAGE of the flying aircraft does not matter when the plane runs out of PHYSICAL FUEL.
The PERCEPTION of the flying aircraft does not matter when the plane runs out of the PHYSICAL FUEL.
The APPEARANCE that the plane is flying does not matter when it runs out of PHYSICAL FUEL.
The DENIAL that the plane is going to crash does not matter when the plane runs out of PHYSICAL FUEL.
In fact banking on THE IMAGE, THE PERCEPTION, THE APPEARANCE, and THE DENIAL all have GUARANTEED THAT THE PLANE WILL CRASH instead of landing safely. They are CONTRIBUTING FACTORS.
If there was not reliance upon the IMAGE...
If there was not reliance upon the PERCEPTION...
If there was not reliance upon the APPEARANCE...
If there was NO DENIAL...
THEN maybe the pilots who were screaming, "THIS JET IS LOW ON FUEL!!!", may have been able to bring it in for a safe landing.
It is LIKEWISE with WORLD FINANCES...young man.
The Game is over. It cannot be continued.
World Resources are DEPLETED.
World PRODUCTION is ANEMIC and WANING at best.
Creating Currency where there is no production behind it DOES NOT CREATE WEALTH.
It CREATES INDEBTEDNESS.
You have screwed it up young man. And in your CONFUSION you seek to justify the insanity of it?
It is not a problem anymore. It is a PREDICAMENT.
And the PREDICAMENT which we are facing has only an OUTCOME, COLLAPSE, A CRASH, with the consequences being DISMAL AT BEST and FATAL AT WORST.
And since you are in abject DENIAL OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES your PROGNOSIS IS TERMINAL unless YOU WAKE UP.
And I do not believe that you get that...at all.
So whazzup, SD? You go to Italy in July that mean you gotta work in August?
Damn, my brother! Is so you go for double time and a half or file a greivance.
short term pain vs. long term pain ? uh i'll take the short term
I call pure speculative horse shit.
Greece is going to flood the south (and probably north) with Greek printed EU notes which will cause a new shitstorm.
That might be the only thing that could get me interested in this godawful story again.
That would be counterfeiting,
but laws are rarely enforced these days, so who knows?
Long pistachio nuts....
Are we talking Greece or Iran ?
a little white caviar with your nuts ?
DNK is the biggest counterfeiter courtesy of the presses it got from Iran when the US left them there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/magazine/23counterfeit.html?pagewanted...
Check this:
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/bank-of-greece-printing-its-own-...
A slight tweak: "That would be unlawful counterfeiting" Counterfeiting by the ECB is of course accepted.
Point well taken;)
"Greece is going to flood the south (and probably north) with Greek printed EU notes which will cause a new shitstorm."
Only if they want a German army in Athens..
The other EMU members are not going to tolerate that (nor should they).
The global MSM, AKA the mouthpiece of the elite, seems to be in panic mode. They are humping the "yes" vote hard.
Monica Lewinsky stands up " I know what can get that stain out!!!! "
"OUT damn spot!"
Bad dog!
Cum again ?
6. Create a new currency and lock it to a currency other than the Euro. Dual currencies, Euro and Drachma can then circulate sde by side indefinitely.
They would not lock the Drachma to the Euro for the same reason that Estonia did not lock to the Soviet (or Russian) Ruble.
#6. Crowdfunding
you dream
#6 .... Issue a new Drachma but have it spent into existence on infrastructure projects by the treasury rather than a central bank. It will fall in value but that would aid exports and tourism. That most Greek civil servants are paid in the new currency would keep it from going to zero. Public sector unions would quickly learn that too much of it would wreck pensions and so much else.
It would not be perfect but infinitely better than another credit based currency.
If Greece prospered under such a regime they would promptly find themselves at war as there can be no alternative to the current credit based currency scam that has become ubiquitous in this world. I guess it really isn't a palatable alternative after all.
Ramirez. The greatest political cartoonist of our age. Love it!
Sorry, off topic, but if you haven't seen the video of Puerto Rico's Finance Minister talking about getting Paulson drunk and stealing billions from him you need to stop what you're doing and have a laugh. Whoever put this together deserves some kind of award. They won the internet today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDIQNO8PS8M
We are going to keep this Ponzi going forever. We are going to buy our own debt.
That is fucked up...Hank Paulson in a fucking speedo pissing himself?
LMAO.
Well worth the laugh.
needs to be front page and embbeded. For all to see thanks for that.
LOL, reminds me of this...
- The United States gave billions of dollars in aid to the wealthy European principality of Andorra, which it mistakenly assumed was a poor African country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q_iqrvnC_4
https://vimeo.com/124971633
classic fake video like hitler one on war map, still funny though
Thanks for the laugh.
As funny as Mr. Panos from Greece. Thanks for the link.
Funny but fake.
The solution:
Confiscate the gold, cash, and priceless art and wealth of all top level bankers, aristocrats and newly rich who conned the world dishonestly. Take it to a global auction block after these people in the gulag, sell/trade items to highest bidder and use funds to reduce deficit to the banks, dissolve banks, create national banks for each country backed by the gold of these same people (now imprisoned).
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Wow. LOL> That 's a good one, alright. Puerto Rico; yeah, gotta remember to pick up some of those bonds, ASAP. Oh, well; the Fed will paper over it all. What a world.
6. Fuck the EU austerity vultures and nationalize the banks in Greece and return to the Drachma. Then start building housing and roadst o get those lazy scumbag young adults who are living off of their parents pensions to work.
7. Join Russia.
What will happen:
a) Default on the debt.
b) Stay in the euro.
Simple.