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Martin Armstrong: Troika Is Maneuvering To Rig The Greek Referendum
Submitted by Martin Armstrong via ArmstrongEconomics.com,
In a TV interview, Mr. Varoufakis said very clearly, “This is a very dark moment for Europe. They have closed our banks for the sole purpose of blackmailing what? Getting a ‘Yes’ vote on a non-sustainable solution that would be bad for Europe.”
I must admit, most politicians do not come even close to the truth, but Varoufakis seems to be the ONLY finance minister who understands the demands of the Troika are not plausible for any nation. Merkel has tried to skirt any responsibility by saying this is a Troika decision. One must seriously ask, are those in the Troika just totally brain-dead? Their blackmail and economic war against Greece will be evidence to ensure that Britain leaves the EU. The ONLY thing that saved Britain was Maggie Thatcher’s effort to keep Britain out of the euro for she knew far too well where it would lead. The view in Poland is also now anti-euro. Any Brit who now does not vote to get out of the EU and the grips of the Troika is ignorant of world events and the political power play going on.
The EU leaders will not travel to Athens until after the referendum. Suddenly they realize that their powers are so off the wall that they dare not expose their own schemes. Hollande of France wants a resolution for he fears a Frexit is gaining momentum. Obama wants a resolution, fearing Greece will be forced into the arms of Russia, breaking down NATO.
Yet through all of this, there is no hope because those in power are clueless. The Troika refuses to solve the euro crisis because they only see their own self-interest and assume they can force their will upon all the people. The Troika is doing everything in their power to rig the Greek referendum to make it appear that the Greek people want Brussels. The Troika deliberately closed the banks to punish the people of Greece, and to show them what exiting the euro means. This appears to be their only way of diverting the crisis with orchestrating a fake “YES” vote to economic suicide. The Troika will attempt to rig the referendum as they did with the Scottish elections. So expect biased vote counting in favor of a “YES” vote to stay in the euro. As Stalin said, “Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”
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How did the Troika "rig" the Scottish elections??
I fully expect both sides to rig the referendum as much as possible. I guarantee you -- no matter what happens one side will be shouting "FRAUD!" while the other shouts "Thanks God!"
If it goes no, you'll have the EU banging the same drum they did with the referendums in the East of Ukraine and Crimea -- e.g., they are illegal and don't count.
If it goes yes, you'll have political chaos in Greece for some time to come. If Syriza fails, I fully expect Golden Dawn to really get powerful.
Then I hope the NO side are able to do a better job.
The Greeks already voted no
They're broke!
BTW: Not a good time for Germans to vacation in Greece.
But I hear Icelanders get laid and drinks for free.
Greece cannot be allowed to leave the Euro (and then NATO) to fall into the hands of Russia/China.
The extremely corrupt and lucrative Greek military procurement spigot will be disconnected from western suppliers.
thinking about the swiss gold referndum and i refuse to underestimate the power that the banksters will use. they own the media, they own the military, they own our daily existence, they control the currency, they own our future, but they haven't got my soul. opt out before they come for your last fucking thought-kill or be killed, and that is where this goes...
Once upon a time, the Greeks were poor, but happy. Then, they looked around and saw that other Europeans were rich. This made the Greeks poor and unhappy. So thye decided to join the club. They got all kinds of money and went on a wild spending spree. They didn't read the fine print, the part where they had to pay it all back. They were rich and happy. Now they can't pay the money back, but they enjoy the lifestyle. They are rich and unhappy. The lenders want to make them pay the money back, but in order to do so, they will have to be poor and unhappy, because who wants to be debtors? But if the Greeks default, leave the Euro, and go back to the Drachma, then they are on their own again, and could go back to being poor, but happy.
So, their choices are 1) poor but happy (N0)
2) poor but unhappy (YES)
My father always said, "If you are going to be unhappy, you might as well be rich", to which I replied, "If you're going to be poor, you might as well be happy."
martin, if you go full on war with the whole shit and kaboodle, wont you be taken out?
one of the main issues about this referendum will be decided today, by a court judging on it's constitutionality
which could result in an even more complicated set of issues, btw, with big demonstration for the referendum and against the court decision
but for "the EU", it would still matter only what the Greek Parliament decides on that. even after a referendum, it's still parliament that has to decide on how and other details
otherwise, the biggest "rigging" you can expect has already been done: by "the EU" putting the Yes/No as a decision over the EUR
but since there are plenty of Greeks that put it this way, their asses are covered in this specific issue
what is really causing the Tsipras Cabinet troubles is that they expected they could continue the negotiations this week, and the strategic move of the other sides to point at the referendum and decide to wait
If the court has "European" in its name -- I 100% guarantee you they will label it illegeal.
That aside, I seriously doubt Tsipras' government will be here in a week's time. He'll resign as I am quite sure Greece will vote Yes.
On an aside, its Greece -- both sides will be stuffing the ballot boxes like a fat family stuffing the Thanksgiving turkey.
no, it a Greek court
here: http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/07/01/two-citizens-appeal-at-greec...
and here: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150703/1024151749.html
specifically, it's the so called "Council of State", here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_State_(Greece)
it's similar to it's French counterpart, a "Supreme Court" equivalent
On a side note -- per Focus, Greek banks can only hold on until Tuesday.
I can guaranty that there will be trouble.
also similar to its australian counterpart, a "kangaroo court" equivalent
if you don't unequivocally reject government, you're a slave
why so? and, btw, how do you reject a foreign government? particularly, how do you express this feeling to a foreign soldier at your doorstep?
violence, it will get some attention and most likely be taken seriously. tyme has come to set the pen aside. otherwise moar strokes of ink and further slide to fascism, with no hope. tyme is now!
hope and change, a fading memory of what used to be...
Let us not bring to this conversation the complete corruption of courts in Greece....
....and the U.S.
LOL, this part completely encapsulates the real issue for the Martin Armstrong
"One must seriously ask, are those in the Troika just totally brain-dead? Their blackmail and economic war against Greece will be evidence to ensure that Britain leaves the EU. The ONLY thing that saved Britain was Maggie Thatcher’s effort to keep Britain out of the euro for she knew far too well where it would lead. The view in Poland is also now anti-euro. Any Brit who now does not vote to get out of the EU and the grips of the Troika is ignorant of world events and the political power play going on."
you see, Haus? it's completely useless to try to set up separate clubs, those who want will always mix up the issues, eurozone, EU, NATO, "all the same, all the same"
oh, and I am seriously thinking of exchanging my € avatar with a BreXit one for the upcoming British referendum
you wish for Latins (and the US) to leave any coalition or club containing Germany
I'd be perfectly happy with the UK leaving the EU. that would fully satisfy me. they can still come back after they finally find that most of what they were talking about was pure rubbish
There is plenty confusion as to what is what exactly. You then have the ECHR, which has 47 members, the EU with 28, the EZ with 18, NATO with a ton. Things get complicated.
A wise man once said the best designs are the simplest.
tyranny by one strong man with an army of bone breakers behind him would be the very simplest
the "old appeal", if you want
but diplomacy among sovereigns still needs some... finesse
or do you find sovereignty as a concept too complicated and wish for something simpler then that?
Or instead of clubbing the dead horse of "without the EU we'll have war" which your message implies -- these various institutions could be stripped down to original intent, as opposed to the centrally powerful institutions these have become.
Haus, all coalitions, pacts among sovereigns, international clubs, military alliances and so on end up having very silly slogans on their flags
I care more for what they do, not what they write on them. "Gott Mit Uns" comes to mind
you, for example, don't really seem to be against the EU, you are just not happy with the composition of the alliance membership
I maintain that we are in a Great Conflict. and the real main contenders are the US and China. even Russia is not really a main contender for that throne
would you send some of the banners you called back home before a battle? ;-)
(btw, I am somewhat enjoying my first read of the first book of "Game of Thrones". I find myself highlighting the Lannister mottos. my clan has a similar "ethos")
I am glad you enjoy the GoT books. I find the books much better than the TV series, but the TV series does the series justice.
I am more partial to the Targaryens, but that should be pretty obvious.
That being said, you are correct. I have no problem with the idea of the EU. I have no problem with the idea of the EUR. My problem is with their composition, and the idea which is inherent to its composition.
The US is gonig down, China has enough problems of its own, Russia is a shithole save for St. Petersberg and Moscow.
A united Northern Europe could provide the world with the first world anchor it will be searching for here shortly. Northern European countries had a golden opportunity to do this, but fucked it all up by including the Southern nations and now what started off as a great idea has turned into a basket case.
the pseudo "Mongol Hordes" are interesting, though I would have put there some of the real economic policies that the Mongol Khanates had
they, for all purposes, invented fiat money
the setup was ingenious. trade from China to Europe and back was reserved to Mongols. if you were coming with a caravan from China, let's say with silk, you had to sell your wares at the border
then a Mongol trader would bring them to the other side of their world, and sell it there. all with a counterflow, of course
all financed by paper issued by the Khan. which then led to the Khans issuing more paper, which then led to the very first hyperinflations
in short, if the Khans had understood the economics of money better (particularly price elasticity and money elasticity), we'd might be all vassals of the Great Khan, today
While that is all fine & good -- had the Northern Europeans teamed up economically instead of brining ClubMED as well, things would be better in both places.
good luck with that. some of the least coalition-friendly members of the european clubs are all northerners
take Sweden. with one foot in the EUR and one on a "technical non-conforming issue", the equivalent of being able to enter if needed. I believe there is a clan with two towers on their coat of arms in "Game of Thrones" that is famous for that
take Denmark. the only member of the ERM II, another way of being in and out at the same time
take Poland, poised but not sure, yet. take Switzerland, the champion of not being member of the EUR but with the most extensive use of it as monetary anchor
take the UK, the master of quibbling and undecision, with the BoE being a shareholder of the ECB, and the City being the premier trading place of the EUR... as well as the main "betting partner"
this on the monetary plane only. if you include geopolitics, who has the nukes? the UK, France and Russia
meaning the "Great Globalizer" and BFF of the US, the only country that ever exited NATO and the very reason for NATO
They don't want to be a member of the club, because its dysfunctional. Remove the dysfunction and you'll have a lot more people joining, and quickly.
prove it. prove that it is, indeed, disfunctional
in fact, prove that the EUR is behaving in a completely different way from gold
if those debts were in gold, where would the fronts lie? would the argumentations be different?
Dr. Krugman and all the Neo-Keynesians would use the exact same arguments, and claim that even the idea of balanced budgets is "anti-human"
we are in the middle of a huge monetary war, a "currency war". and in the eurozone we still have... price stability
the problem, my young friend, is that I am arguing against "breaking windows". I support the real economy and it's real needs, including price calculation
are you on that side or on the "let everything burn down and we'll rebuild afterwards"? because the latter, for me, is just an excess of Neo-Keynesian "broken windows are great"
we could as well joke about Germany regularly bombing one BundesLand every five years and then experience a great rebuilding phase. on borrowed credit, of course
or call in Dr. Krugman's Invasion From Mars, another "way to great riches"
production and trade are what make "wealth". whole windows, not broken ones. war and destruction might fill some hearts with glee, but aren't what separates us from primitive conditions
if you break my window, I have to use resources that I would have used elsewhere just to replace it
Prove its dysfunctional?
Seriously?
yes, seriously. it is a theory, isn't it? so first you have to think about how you could falsify it
the harder a currency, the harder the squabbles around it are. gold would be even harder, and cause even harder squabbles
up to gunships sent to collect gold, as it happened often in the 19thC and last time in 1971 (never mind the other repatriations, all more discreet)
so the whole Neo-Keynesian argument that the EUR makes for hard squabbles... highlights it's hardness
are you experiencing price instability in Frankfurt? that would be a different and interesting argument
another one is price calculation. are you at the moment not capable of making decisions about how you spend your salary? or what productive or unproductive assets you can buy with it?
May the pain in your neck last until you meet your reward, and then pass it down to your kids. That's my final wish.
thanks for the friendly and cogent argument. I'm devastated by it
Do you remember all that utter crap Armstrong sprouted before the Australian budget?
Not one bit of it was correct of course ... no recant ... best not talk about it ... toss another log on the Armstrong bullshit pyre ... cook me up some bacon and some beans ...
It's the difference between living 100 years in misery, or a thousand in comfort, you SHOULD be devastated by it, it's unsustainable.
prove it. prove that it is, indeed, disfunctional
Who's to blame for the EU's accounts?
The line that the EU has, yet again, failed to have its accounts signed off for the umpteenth year in a row is regularly trotted out by eurosceptics.
https://euobserver.com/news/122025
I would not trust the EU with the drippings of my nose!
XAU XAG, the argument is about the EUR being dysfunctional, not the accounts of the EU denominated in this currency
the EU org is badly audited, yes. but the EU org is not the entity issuing the EUR, that's the ECB
Well the EUR was dysfunctional from the start.
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/30268
This crisis in the Eurozone is a structural defect from birth. The debts should have been consolidated. Southern Europe joined the Euro and their debts were left intact, but redenominated to Euro. That meant when the Euro rose from $0.80 to $1.60, the bondholder profited hugely.
it's a theory. how do want to disprove or prove it? the "Armstrong argument" is based on the same argument as Krugman: "look at the sqabbles around debt!!"
to which I reply: if all this debt was denominated in gold... how would those squabbles... differ?
the classic Austrian School point of view is that debt is either paid or defaulted (as mal-investment). Neo-Keynesians think that defaults are barbaric, as gold
and so Neo-Keynesians think that the EUR is "dysfunctional", and propagate this merry little meme all around us. cheers to that
Er how is currency that was .80 and then goes to 1.60 not proof and not theory??
How would you like your debts to double or your worth halve?
You asked to prove EU disfunctional......................I say the Eu and the € and all the dick take laws they throw at everybody is disfunctional.
You only bang your drum because YOU have benifitted from it.....................for everyone who has benifitted there is some one who has not.
Your choice to take the Blue or RED pill.
As you are aware ...................it started as a trade union (with the intention at the start to make one political monetry union) why all the sculldugery......................
XAU XAG, "it takes two to tango". the EURUSD, specifically, is about EUR denominated in USD
if one of them is "disfunctional", the ratio of them will be disfunctional, too. but which one is the cause?
specifically, does a coffee I buy today cost more in EUR, or just in USD? don't forget the point of view. I am not a tourist from the US in the eurozone
last time I had a discussion with Haus Targaryen about this guy going into real estate in the eurozone as bet against the EUR
this leads me to think about all the US homeowners with huge USD mortgages. aren't they all hedged against the USD by that, in the same definition?
I produce things and provide services, btw. where does this put me?
Ghordius
I produce things and provide services, btw. where does this put me?
And the cost of labour....................hence oustsourcing labour to cheaper zones
That depends on the original source of the raw materials that you make things with.
I new a guy who used to buy coke cans by the container from countries he could then sell in the UK cheaper than coke would supply...............
You have to move to an asset that will hold it's value
I Know I know..................not many of those around LOL
If something is going down, there is always something going up.................you just have to look.
Your a smart bloke WTF are you asking me for? LOL
You already know the above.....................you just like to come on here and agnst us non pro EURPEAN ANYTHING LOL
ghordy, until you understand and accept and include in your head the concept and perversions of banksters, your analyses will all be off.
disprove what again?
why dont you try and explain to us all how this bankster system is not rigged for severe amounts of theft by them?
why dont you try to explain to us how its not set up to blow up, and give us all another round of entertainment?
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/22166
The problem of the Euro was the fear that consolidating all the debts at the outset would have created the image that they were federalizing Europe, which was the original intent. Therefore, they left each country with its own debt and only created a single currency driven by an amalgamation of governments. They then used euro bonds of each member state as the RESERVE of the banking system. As the disparity among the member states cracked the system in 2010 starting in Greece, they undermined the banking system within Europe as a whole. The Brussels politicians now argue the only way to save the Euro is to federalize Europe and to save the banking system people have to give up at least 10% of their assets.
This is like creating a vaccine to prevent a disease (world war), and then when you are taken ill because of a bad vaccine, they argue you need a new version. This is not my opinion – just fact. They sent the commission to create the Euro to our World Economic Conference in London. I have first hand knowledge of what was being created from the outset and warned them the lack of a national consolidated debt would doom the Euro. This was not clairvoyance – it is simple economics.
The European banking system has been doomed from the outset. While bankers are to blame for proprietary trading, they are NOT to blame for the poor design of the euro. The success of the USA was mistakenly assumed to be a single currency. It was also a national debt and a single language (albeit now diverting to Spanish in Southern and Western USA that is bad trend long-term for it prevents a single economy as does the varied cultures within Europe. You do not migrate to China and then demand they speak your language).
The Hamiltonian Model worked in the USA because he consolidated the debts of all states at the outset. We submitted this design back then as the ONLY successful model and why it succeeded. Had the USA not moved to a consolidated debt and the banking reserves would have relied upon state debt, they would have collapsed as states defaulted in the 1840s not so dissimilar from the collapse in Europe today.
The economies of Greece, Italy and Spain may attract the attention, but the time bomb is France. The French rely upon government intently, whereas in Southern Europe they have traditionally ignored government. When France goes, so will the Euro.
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there is no such thing as "the european banking system", btw. item in case: the Greek national banking system is quite nearly closed, at the moment
too much "the EU is a copy of the US" coupled with Neo-Keynesian thinking in that article, imho
dumb, because that completely ignores the bankster tentacles around the testes of each european country's central bank
Ghordius
"Good Luck" ( said with a Liam Neeson voice ) with your € it is going to .80 cent to the $..................
Hope you are hedged?
Greece and Ukraine are sufficient to prove the EU is disfunctional. The former in the economic sense, the latter in the political/military sense (as in, the EU is the US Deep State's bitch).
Hey..... I remember Bre-X. How appropriate to associate that firm with bankers and politicians.
And this
It Begins – Austrian Voters Sign Petition to Exit EU Force Parliamentary Debatehttp://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34342
Electronic voting means fraud-built-in. If the controllers can create tttrillions out of thin air, votes are easy, all voting should be by paper ballots and outside voting booths. "Secret Ballots" suck. No person should be ashamed to throw some sleazy psychopath out and tell the world with pride he did it, especially the psychopath.
"I guarantee you -- "
So Haus, just how do you guarantee that? Have you looked into the eyes of Syriza and seen in them the dark soul of the Troika, the banksters and all their stooges, whores and thugs? Or is it just a projection based on the fact that in the US a few powerful corporations own the vote count in - by one account - 27 states?
But I shouldn't be so hard on you; your comment fits in well with Martin's article, a free-floating rant based on general fears. The specific question he raises is who DOES count the vote in Greece? And will Syriza have any control or oversight of the count?
Sadly Martin sheds no light on this, and while I share his fears it was mostly a waste of my time.
But while we're on the subject perhaps we could be talking more about who counts the votes in the several States of the US.
You can tell the vote will be bullshit because the polls already have it at 50/50. Isn't that a little bit of an old trick? Answer is predetermined, pretend like it is a tossup...
What is the point of the referendum? Greeks already voted for Tsipiras. Yes we voted for Tsipiras to end the austerity, why are you asking us again if Tsipiras should end the austerity?
Golden Dawn should put a halt to all the shenanigans immediately. Don't let the faux referendum go through. The results will be fake, the answer 'stay euro', and the point to mind trap the Greek people into accepting their new permaghetto.
"How did the Troika "rig" the Scottish elections??"
They put Alex Salmond in charge.
How did the Troika "rig" the Scottish [independence referendum] elections??
The same way Europe will deal with the British EU referendum: with a massive propaganda campaign to instill fear into the population. Trying to stop it is like putting your hand up to stop a runaway train.
One for you one for me. One for you two for me.
The rigging was carried out at the Queen's behest. Large numbers of ballots disappeared from Edinburgh and Dundee and were never counted. Miscounting of other bollots wwas recorded on video with "yes" votes clearly in a pile of "no" votes.
There was also substantial rigging in the recent British General Election with all candidates showing signs of independence and integrity being targeted -- not just Nigel Farage and George Galloway.
Note the circumstantial evidence that the Scottish vote was rigged: in the recent elections, the SNP completely blew away the other parties - this is the backlash of the rigging - the evil eye of Sauron perched atop Buckingham Palace did not invest the same effort in rigging the general election that they did in the referendum, so the second vote is IMHO a better gauge of what the Scots really feel about being part of the UK.
It makes no sense that the voters of Scotland would on the one hand vote down the separation, then a few months later overwhelmingly vote for the SNP - in my view, this screams that the first vote was massively rigged...
I think if Greece leaves the EU, not only will this effect Spain, Portugal & Italy, but it will rekindle Scottish independence as well.
SO, prepare for an all-out effort by the Deep State to keep Greece in the fold (fortunately, I assume Syrizia will mount a similar effort since their existence is at stake - while they have nowhere near the assets of the Deep State, they are closer to the action which should amplify the effectiveness of their efforts)
There are rumours the Scottish election was rigged through the postal votes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13OPs4c91U4ggD1XrHWGAig8YOoXbehVSEpGw...
repost up to the top
No need to go to the Top.
The fire is lit and require only a breath of air in any form to create a Bonfire of the Vanity's
My feeling is that Usury has had its day
2015 - 1947 = what?
68 Year of US involvement in Turkey & Greece due to Communist Sentiments/Political Sentiments/Political Leanings.
Well I'm sure the history is very clean, very fair, very respectful, and completely observes the rules of diplomacy, statesmanship, ethos, and decorum.
All actions taken were under the rules of Democracy & the UN.
Just don't look at Operation Gladio, Stay Behind Armies, Gray Wolfes in Turkey, and Mr. Juncker's involvement with Stay Behind Armies... or BBC Video Time Watch on Operation Gladio.
Whats a bit scary with the whole thing is they are showing that Govt debt is back by a countries bank deposits (ie the most liquid asset). So if Greece votes no, and no compromise can be found its possible via the ECB.. the EU will look to freeze / confiscate Greek bank deposits (about 120-150 bill by recent reports).
Beyond that this is true injustice because before the bailout the old private sector bond holders had no recourse (ie if German bank was holding the bonds they would have suffered the loss possible 100%) . Now the TRIOKA are going/implying that bank deposits could be used (like Cyprus) to cover their loss.. which was not the case before.
So clearly the media is not properly reporting on whats happening. ie Do EU/US/Japan bond holders and bank depositors realise that the massive debt their Govt have built and continue to build will eventually lead to
1) hair cut on bank deposit (in Japan it seems obvious that one day when 230% debt to GDP gets to 300% or 400% what ever the amount is an auction will fail or external shock and the Govt will be forced to give bond holders a hair cut..to reduce the debt suddenly to avoid collapse (as the tax income wont cover interest) which will translate into a haircut for depositors at banks.
ie non EU bonds should be selling off as pension funds / life insurers ect.. should wake up the US and Japanese bonds are not safe and will be subject to hair cuts along with depositors..
ie 0-2.5% rates for risk of 10-50% loss is ridiculous. I can just see the shock when it does happen because the debts are too large they have to be restructured.. and as we are seeing the only was is for losses for bond holders (which translates into bank deposit losses) .. which further translates into losses for pension funds / banks / insurance companies. ie the fact their not adjusting their positions during this event to take into account that Govts now can hair cut bond holders and take depositors money is truly a shame
Which is why the articles are appearing to end - cash - as a medium of exchange
Anytime they want they can control the vote by stopping access to everyone's assets and especially liquidity
This game has so many levers for power at every event it is going to be death for many many people all over the world which is why they need cops killing kids or for selling cigarettes so the people see they will kill you for nothing .......nothing at all
MA: "Their [Troika] blackmail and economic war against Greece will be evidence to ensure that Britain leaves the EU."
Possible, but most unlikely in my view. One has to understand how committed Brits are to the status quo. It is not so much A or B that Brits like or dislike, but the change necessary to get from one to the other. "Inertia" takes control.
MA: "The ONLY thing that saved Britain was Maggie Thatcher’s effort to keep Britain out of the euro for she knew far too well where it would lead."
True. Thatcher had a good understanding of how socialism operates and how it always ends in tears.
MA: "Any Brit who now does not vote to get out of the EU and the grips of the Troika is ignorant of world events and the political power play going on."
Indeed, they are ignorant of much of that. Non-stop biased propaganda spewed out by TV News and printed MSM sees to that.
excellent. I agree insofar that the British voter is always for the status quo except if you tell him exactly "what's in for him"
cue in the old Napoleon comments on the Brits having the mentality of shopkeepers (and good for the Brits, imho)
but one small question: when you somewhat imply that the eurozone is more socialistic then the poundzone... how do you measure it?
let's say we take... budget deficits in the last seven years. who did more spending in excess of revenues? the UK or the eurozone? mull a bit about that
"...except if you tell him exactly "what's in for him" "
Probably true, Brits often have a rather selfish or self-centered approach to decision-making. It may explain why we have so many rip-off merchants in business, particularly in retail, hence Napoleon's quote. It's not healthy competition that Brits like, but market-sector domination and control. This should not be confused with capitalism.
I have long said that the EU and by extension, the EZ is a socialist construct. Socialists always lose control of spending because they believe the means is always justified by the end.
I'd have to say that Britain's Empire was a Corporatist Empire. Although the Empire collapsed, the underlying model of corporatist governance has not changed. Our huge City activities lead many people to wrongly believe that we are a capitalist nation, whereas we are actually a corporatist nation, with the money being controlled by the same old same old banksters of dubious ancestry. The two things are quite different. Corporatism is actually a left-wing model because The State exists to advocate and promote it (see Musso). Hence the huge bail-outs to the banks in 2008, replaced by bail-ins under the Conservative coalition.
What we have increasingly in Britland is "democratic fascism", although the voters have not realised it yet, but many support it.
One other thing that I looked at a few years ago was to compare the way in which Britain is governed -vs- the way in which our old colonies were governed, most notably Hong Kong. There really are a lot of parallels, which lead me to conclude that Britain's governments are little more than governors who pay lip service to democracy.
smacker, while ideologies tend to be hard to quantify, "socialism" in such things as governmental budgets are easy, imho
if country A has a budget deficit of 1% of GDP and country B has a budget deficit of 10%, in my humble opinion the latter is more "socialist", by 9% of GDP
ok, this might mean that a Patriotic War of Defending Against Foreign Aggression On Credit would qualify as Great Socialist Effort as much as Great Patriotic Effort
but there it is. take care, and all the best
The SNB pukes have been hedging 2 year Australian pAPER FOR 2-3 YEARS . tHE GERMAN BANKS HAVE BEEN PLAYING THE SAME GAME
Short term yield spreads.
Greece is completely bankrupt and the troubles are going to continue with and without "oxi-vote" and with and without "rescue package". If Greece votes "nai" and gets another "rescue" than the population will live in endless debt-serfdom. It does in this case not any longer need an own government, only some "technocrats" for administration as demanded already by EU's president of parliament Martin Schulz. The money saved on the Greek government can be used to repay Greek debt (approx. 0,5 trillion EURO) which is propably going to accompany EU for the next 100 years.
The surreal part is that the previous establishment of a technocratic government is precisely what has led to the present situation.
and how do you end debt serfdom?
I maintain that the Austrian School is quite clear on that
debt serfdom is caused by debt. excessive debt. but what is excessive is not sustainable, and what is not sustainable won't last
but the real root cause of debt is... excess spending, aka "living over your means", in sovereign terms "budget deficits"
so independently if you restructure or default on your current debt, the problems in twenty or forty years are caused... now
and the solution is now, too. balanced budgets
but that is too much to bear for most neo-keynesian influenced minds, all focused on the future saving the present, which is nothing else then borrow from the future
it's simple: from a sovereign perspective, if in doubt, balance the budget
which, btw, makes you independent from foreign borrowers
on the opposite side, if you insist on "stimulus spending", on "packages for growth", and all that stuff... well, then you do need a lender, domestic or foreign
all basically correct.
outlaw public debt, there's no good reason for it.
or, better yet, outlaw government, there's no good reason for that, either.
"outlaw" is an action, something for which you need something like government
no goverment is anarchy. which, besides being something about which a lot of silly things are written, means literally "no rules" as much as "no rulers"
"rule of law", on the other side, means rules and laws are set up and enforced. and enforcement of rules is... executive government
even if it's just your neighbours, an elected judge and/or a jury of peers and an elected sheriff, if you do something against the horse thief in an organized manner... that's already "government"
This general view of yours (and the exact equivalent to Scheuble's own views I might add) is so incorrect @Ghordius, that I hardly now where to begin, but let us start with the most basic:
A debt requires two actors; a willing provider who has an excess supply of money, and a willing borrower who lacks enough supply for whatever project they may have. It is certainly the lender's personal and moral obligation to HIMSELF to make the minimum analysis as to the borrower's ability to pay. It is of course the moral obligation of the borrower to make a best effort to pay it back. All your claims ignore the very basic economic fact that IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO.
Now let us see what occurred in the Greek case:
An almost totally corrupt and crony capitalism ridden government was knowingly allowed into the Euro without ANY significant reforms made. German and French bankers then proceeded to lend BLINDLY to said country, totally failing in their moral obligation to analyse the borrower's ability to pay. Their reason for doing so, with the willing complicity of their governments, was partly an indirect form of vendor financing. Where did almost all of that money that was lent end up going??? To German and French and other industrials from whom the Greeks purchased cars and tons of unneeded military equipment etc. The rest went into the pockets of Greek government “public servants” in the form of bribes. This was the most immoral, illegal, and reprehensible form of lending that is possible, and it was done in FULL knowledge.
Then, when inevitably the banks failed to collect their ODIOUS debt, the EC decided the most intelligent thing was to have the rest of Europe's citizens take on most of the debt rather then have the banks take more of a haircut which was the morally correct thing to do. This is the ultimate of moral hazards: lend to anyone you want blindly, we will simply have the people pay for your mistakes! If you cannot be disgusted by what was done to both the Greek AND European peoples, then nothing can disgust you.
… so what was that about living beyond your means utter nonsense?
so? I see you arguing for a default. fine by me. and then? I am interested on what you do afterwards
meanwhile, if you balance your budget you don't need more debt
so again, the root cause of debt serfdom is debt. and the root cause of debt is excess spending
ergo the root cause of debt serfdom is excess spending. the "living beyond your means utter nonsense" you don't seem to like
Ghordius, it seems to me that you haven't addressed his main contention: that the debt racked up by Greece was infact odious debt.
in my opinion, I did. if you judge your debt as odious, you take consequences. which can be a default on it
but if you continue to take debt, in twenty or forty or sixty years, you'll be again talking about odious debt or not. or perhaps not you, but your children and grandchildren
A default for odious debt is a given: it cannot be repayed. That is its nature and intent. But in a just system, default isn't the consequence. In a just system, the consequence is the punishment of the actors who foisted, perpetutated and benefited from that bad debt.
And I'll even go a step further. A default isn't even a consequence in a system where the very unit of "money" can be created at will, and whose very creation is itself a debt. There is no punishment to the creator of such vapor value. That entity suffered no "loss." That entity is still free to "lick its wounds," if that, and devise new schemes of stealthy theft. The root of the problem is the money creation, and who controls it and for what purpose.
> but the real root cause of debt is... excess spending, aka "living over your means", in sovereign terms "budget deficits"
This is called blaming the victim. Let me guess: Your career is in banking. Every rapist wants to claim that "she asked for it". And they should all be castrated, not out of vindictive spite, but out of self-defense. Responsibility is a two-way street, and moral hazard extends to creditor and debtor alike. It takes a stupid, corrupt creditor and a stupid, corrupt debtor to create a situation like this. But history is written by the victor, and the creditor is always the victor. Until it is not.The people of Greece can vote for whatever they like because in the end the outcome will not be decided by the vote but by the reality of unsustainable and unserviceable debt, high unemployment, aging population, a sick monetary union, a still cancerous bureaucracy and a population that still labours under the delusion that Greece can still give all its pensioners and public servants what they were accustomed to before the crisis.
And all this will end ONLY when the gallant decision to write off the debt is taken. Not only of Greece but also of other nations with similar circumstances.
you could have written a bit faster and it had saved me from writing a comment
It was the extra paragraph that slowed me down. :)
This world will pass away if the arrest warrants aren't issued for Blankfein and Dimon.
Why arrest warrants and not death sentences for crimes against humanity?
That is their way. Humans believe that people have a right to be confronted by their accusers and have a fair trial. Nonhumans want summary judgment and execution in the middle of the night.
First one, then the other.
The chinese are getting cocky. This doesn't end well for the chinese.
The rOYAL bANK OF aUSTRTRALIA IS SO PATHETIC. They're unloading excess reserves in the middle of the night. stealth intervention
When Nixon was elected, one almighty catfish was placed below the floorboards of the Oval Office, that stench slowly enveloped all those in Washington. So pervasive is the smell, the herd raises a nostril in disgust. Maybe the coming farce you call election time will remove that rotting carcass but I doubt it. The herd is restless, they want rid of that smell !.
Boris Johnson mayor of London purchased three water cannon I suppose with the benign intentions of cooling the herd during the summer months.
The militarisation of our respective law enforcement is no coincidence they await the stampede !.
The problem with Northen Europe is that its being turned into another version of the US. Too much immigration, mass of retarded "identity" politics to get everyone to identidfy with anything but the indiginous culture.
Eventually you end up with a situation where the country can't effectively pass on its culture to the next generation - and effectively that country ceases to exist. If you look at how pathetic the US is now, from putting men or at leat probes on the moon in six years, to not being able to launch a rocket that won't blow up. Plummeting in the educational leagues, "universities" becoming hot-beds for corrosive leftist ideologies or places for the rich to network etc etc.
How is there going to be a "German" work ethic or Northen European work ethic when most of the people living there are from Turkey/Middle East/Africa.
A nations peoples solidarity burned to the ground.
In what, a decade or three, four ?
Wait for the next decade.
x100
Diversity truly is a wonderful thing...no sarc. Cultures all over the world have a lot they can and should learn from one another.
But that doesn't mean that every country or region in the world needs to be a melting pot.
If you want to experience diversity, go travel. Explore. It will most certainly make you a better citizen of the world.
BruntFCA hit the nail on the head. Countries are losing their own unique cultural identities. As an American, I can't even figure out what our schizophrenic identity is. All I know is that I want little to do with it anymore.
Good article, The eu is fundamentally finished and so is the Euro , we all know in the next 5 years it will cease to exist.
I will vote against the UK remaining a member of EU , the failed misfit organization.
Armstrong is a bad guy. He promotes the agenda of the globalists. ABC Media/ZH never misses the chance to pimp this bitch.
While he may well be in bed with the devil, so to speak, he is nonetheless quite clever in his analysis, oft-times. Being in the prediction business, I admire his work, despite his puffery and stench of charlatanism. Also, it is easy, from a position of ignorance. to use naive moral categories to denigrate the actions of others. Behaving in a manner inoffensive to the ignorant, once you become privy to the same facts, may prove much more challenging.
Armstrong is one of the faux intellectual agenda pushers, paid to generate web content. Part of the indoctrination machine to sway the cspan crowd.
The elites want a resounding Oxi. They will get that vote in order to isolate Greece, the other PIglets will scurry back to their stalls knowing Caeser runs animal farm !.
Hahahaha.. I can tell you are Greek you know , your own worste enemy pal.
like i said..Gladio. the gloves are off now but so are the masks. The evil beast controlling the global money charade needs to uncloak to kill the victims. Greece is currently in their crosshairs and anyone can see it. what most don't see is that THEY are themselves in the crosshairs.
pain is coming either way. untangle yourselves from the global evil octopus
"The EU leaders won't travel to Greece"
Unless they have their own chefs and catering should the shit they expect the Greek to swallow ends up on their plate.
Humm-arse anybody !.
I do hope for a "no" vote and that China and Russia come in the picture.
There won't be much first class Troika travelling to Greece after that.
the very last rounds of negotiations were made in Brussels on express demand of the Greek Government
and sorry, enough taxpayer money was spent on all those meeting rooms there so that european governments have a place to meet
let me guess: Brit? wish you a speedy BreXit, if that is the case
!!! Ghordius - good to have you back !!!
That finally ads some "content" again to the comments section.
Would be glad to also have back ekm.
Although ... it won't change much "out there". Among the 99.99999 % super ignorant sheeple. And the 0.00001% super ignorant Rothschilds. As their mantras won't change anytime soon.
But at least we have - for moments - the fine illusion here "Human species makes some sense - at times at least."
1. Shut down the banks - bank accounts should be provided by government and software.
2. Outlaw corruption of politicos - hang every single politico who takes money or something else - except from his salary which he gets from the government. Also hang every singly Lobbyist or entity which tries to buy a politico. Iron rule - no excuse. No exception.
3. Outlaw any sort of tax avoiding. Planet wide. Be it Google or Apple or whatever else company. Avoid taxes - and you are banned and closed. Period.
4. Stop postulating "growth" as the only mantra. Replace it with health and balance.
All of above points will never ever happen - and haven't happened since Stonage and won't happen ever in the futures. Due to either greed and/or ignorance. Due to the elite not shooting themselfs in their feet. Due to dumb and ignorant sheeple around the planet as long as there is at least some shit on the table. So finally absolutely nothing will change. More blood, more greed, more slaves, more money, .... until finally an asteriod strucks this planet and all those parasites are wiped off the map.
In the end it all makes no sense at all ... humans are a failed experiment.
At least as long as greed and ignorance have the final say.
Boiled down to the bottom - all these discussions here are just and only for personal entertainment.
As for the next couple of thousands of years - nothing will change and greed and ignorance will continue to be the rulers of this planet.
So Ghordius .. please keep those fine illusions flowing/coming ...
fxp - bank accounts should be provided by government and software?
Really? You have not thought this through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs
bank accounts should be provided by government
Stuff that they steal enough as it is try "everybody" then you can utilise the banking services of anyone who is honest and in that mind would you trust your dear old mum to be banker? Likely answer, yes or some relative let them earn the interest and the money creation cutting out banksters and government.
So in effect deregulate the whole banking sector so that any person with 100 dollars in their pocket can loan it and just for fun allow them to leverage that 100 dollars 2:1 not flaming 20:1 so if they suffer a margin call the central bank bails them out for the 100 dollars they created. WHAT HAS HAPPENED JUST NOT FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE.
A really sweet deal for ordinary people and sure puts a check on the TBTF banks.
In the US, it does not even matter who counts the vote, because most likely they do not bother. If the press announces someone as president, then they become president. Only control of the press is required.
One has to wonder why the evil ones think they are so important.
yea stalin got it right. The cabal taught Stalin well.
Democracy is a word reserved for MORONS, MINIONS and IDIOTS. The world is rule via deception, engineered perceptions and sometimes outright lies and propaganda. Good example has to be the US with E.Bernay's highly successful program of Promotiing Democracy world-wide. Total failure, all it promotes is coups, wars and corporate land grabs. Not all bad, but a good 90%. Right now its gotten to a point where its just simply criminal. Ukraine a perfect example of how dumb people are to the facts as oppose to the propaganda. They really grabbed the Western world by the balls.
Now, lets keep the debt slavery moving, paaaaa.....cheeeeeeeeee..........nothing like whipping the debt serfs!!!
What happens if the votes are rigged to end up with 'Yes' in the majority, messrs Tsipras, Varoufakis et al resign and order a new election which happens in say a couple of months and are elected back to power? Back to square 1?
No, three steps backward. Because in the interim the Troika will have installed a "technocrat" yes-man, just like they did in 2012. When do you think most of the "reforms" that have already been implemented got installed? When the Establishment's selected hitman was in charge, of course.
Everytimne I hear the word "Troika", I just want to puke all over myself. It just sounds like a group that needs a mass beheading, ISIS style.
You don't meet enough 'real' public do you? When we were having the GE2015 I was in a class of people (jobcentre course funded by the European Social Fund) In which some people in the room not only didn't know we were having a GE, but didn't know what the term 'European Union' meant. Another thought UKIP were racist.
I tried hanging round the 'left' crowd and I won't even go there. Suffice to say there are large groups of people that can't distinguish the difference between the establishment 'kill em for convenience of the 'budget'' party, and the other party that is made up of passionate anti establishment types that are sick of the EU. (And some fairly uneducated people in this groups followers as well.) These are the same two political parties to some people, indistinguishable. 'Tories and UKIP.'
On balance though someone like me is listened to even if I am coming out in support of a party some believe to be 'racist'. English do still respect intelligence, even if the situation is currently as it is.
To be fair one of the girls in the aforementioned course started researching because of the political discussions and one was a non voter probably soon-to-be-UKIP-voter. With the whole situation it is notable that you end up giving more attention to the uneducated because they shout louder. (That goes within the left wing crowd too.) The left are rather cult like. In my estimation out of the 9 million or so, probably more that voted Labour. More than 80% at the election believed UKIP were racist. With any luck the EU funded BBC will be axed or more thoroughly regulated if it gets there.
But will it even get there? 2 years, does the and western market have that long?
Who paid for his movie?
For new peeps, a source checking observation:
Martin Armstr0ng was the gopher boy for Brit Neocon Sir Alan Walters. Armstr0ng's mentor was a card carrying member of the NWO. Walters is dead now but when he was alive this is how Walters spent his time:
> Monetarist econ advisor to Margaret Thatcher
> Adviser to the World Bank
> Vice Chairman of AIG Trading Group
> American Enterprise Institute
Armstr0ng's writings highlight one side of a manufactured conflict. A manufactured conflict brought to you by his handlers in NeoCon central - the American Enterprise Institute. Along with the UN, the foundations, the banksters, the AEI have spent years pushing their Hegelian dialectic, order out of chaos game plan. Armstr0ng is promoted across the web to be the "credentialed" voice of the disgruntled right leaning guy who knows how to count.
Understand: Armstr0ng is Steve Liesman. Armstr0ng is Jim Cramer. Armstr0ng is Democracy Now! Armstr0ng is Amy Goodman. Armstr0ng is Cornell West. Armstr0ng is Morris Dees. Sell out hacks, bozos, promoted as smart, who's only real talent is a willingness to lie with a straight face. These people wake up every day and try to find a new way to distract people from the real crimes being done in front of our face under color of law. These people repeat 3 truths that anyone can agree with and then slip in the lie.
Armstr0ng is a NWO minion. He may have arrived at this point against his will, via bribery, coercion etc, leveraging his trouble with the law. He is NWO pusher and therefore a professional shit disturber. He actively promotes an agenda that harms YOU while tricking you into thinking he is looking out for you.
Caveat emptor amigos.
You can say what you want but I loves my 2015.75 BIG BANG........and I aint giving it back !!! :p
"...wake up every day and try to find a new way to distract people from the real crimes being done in front of our face under color of law. "
The other bozos ok, but Amy Goodman and Cornel West? They are among the few regularly hilighting those crimes. You paint with far to wide a brush.
Thank-you. I had noticed that the fellow seemed to have a few cards missing from the deck. And that he had strong connections to the National Security State. This clarifies some of the obscurity.
Also, Martin Armstrong doesn't actually write most of his columns. He's a native-born American, while most of his blog posts show clear signs (unnatural syntax and phrasing) of being written by a non-native speaker (not Chinese or Indian/Pakistani judging again by the syntax). My money is on German, since that's where the big push for his movie came from.
Diebold could really "fix" the situation.
Butt, butt Pootin told Europe to respect the Greek peoples wishes. Maybe Pootin should count the votes so everything will be on the up and up. heh
voting is a jewish trick
Greece will stay in the Eurozone and they will pay re-negotiate their debt. Expect haircuts. Same will happen in PR. Dollar, Inc will win, they will just have more power.
My expectation is this ... Greeks vote yes, rigged or not (dumb Greeks vote yes or not so dumb but a rigged vote then). Ordinary Greeks will then have to endure what the Troika tell them it is what serfs do the killer to this deal is
BORROWING MORE AND MORE TO PAY ONLY INTEREST PAYMENTS ON DEBT IS FUTILE. Where it is right now.
Why will there be nothing else for now anyway?
The ramifications of a collapsed EU are free falling economies and who would you side with the USA or Russia, maybe even China. Then we come to this, would you lend money to a Greek when you know they cannot pay it back? Well how about a German, French, Italian or British person when trading across an international boundary can have dire consequences if they are hiding an economic black hole. AT THAT POINT AVOID THE TRADE.
The downside is endless economically hence the Greeks will be made to vote YES or suffer hell on earth as a warning to any other EU nation and all other signatories to the Lisbon treaty only have intent on joining the EZ and the same club Greece is in. THAT IS WHAT THE LISBON TREATY WAS ABOUT THIS EZ BLOCK IN THE END.
But the Troika isn't counting the Greek votes. Surely the Greeks are. So technically, if anyone messes with the outcome it will be the party controlling the vote, that has earnestly begged the public to vote "No".
That the Troika are idiots goes without saying. The IMF has known since the beginning that this would be the logical result, but accepted a position as "junior partner" to the EU and ECB representatives, who were just hoping for enough time for the rest of Europe's economies to get on their feet again before Greece went down and dragged them along with her. The ECB is controlled by "Austrian" fundamentalists who WANT THEIR MONEY BACK even though they're the ones who gave it away to THEIR banks, forgetting all about Credit Anstalt. The EU wants everybody to stay together and be one big happy family, even if Father Germany is abusing all the kids.
But of course, what do you expect from a Committee, except 0 heads and multiple asses?
All of this goes to who will the client states side with USA/EUR or BRICKS?
Eurasia! Zibig Brezinski!!What are the odds of the troika allowing a NO vote to occur.....0! Unless the Greeks are willing to hit the streets, the Eurocrats will decide things.