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Greeks Turn To Bitcoin To Dodge Capital Controls
There is at least one legal way to get your euros out of Greece these days, to guard against the prospect that they might be devalued into drachmas: convert them into bitcoin. As Reuters reports, although absolute figures are hard to come by, Greek interest has surged in the online "cryptocurrency", as new customers depositing at least 50 euros with BTCGreece, the only Greece-based bitcoin exchange, open only to Greeks, rose by 400% between May and June.
Using bitcoin could allow Greeks to do one of the things that capital controls were put in place this week to prevent: transfer money out of their bank accounts and, if they wish, out of the country.
"When people are trying to move money out of the country and the state is stopping that from taking place, bitcoin is the only way to move any value," said Adam Vaziri, a board member of the UK Digital Currency Association.
"There aren't any other options unless you buy diamonds, and that's very difficult to move."
But Marinos said the bitcoin buyers' main aim was to shield their money against the prospect that Greece might leave the euro zone and convert all the deposits in Greek banks into a greatly devalued national currency. If voters reject the demands of international creditors in a referendum on Sunday, this becomes much more likely.
"A lot of people are keeping all the bitcoins they buy on our platform, until they understand what to do with them," Marinos said. "In their eyes, now they have bitcoins, they're safe."
* * *
With Bitcoin having surged from $238 to $268 in the last few days since Greek PM Tsipras announced Greferendum, it is clear it's not just the Greeks that are losing faith in faith-based fiat currencies.
Ironically, on June 20, Greece got its first bitcoin "ATM", in a family-run bookstore in Acharnes on the outskirts of Athens.
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>Getting hammered tonight
>If we remain sober we can fix this
Demonstrating again what should be happening to the price of Gold if it wasn't being suppressed by naked paper shorts.
Buh gold and Bitcoin! Best of both worlds!
Thanks fonestar......
Thank-you for chosing fonestar.
"With Bitcoin having surged from $238 to $268 in the last few days..."
And promptly falling back to $256:
http://www.kitco.com/finance/bitcoin/
It's a free market, bitchez. Want something pampered by the central banks, CNBC has advice.
I think the Tyler's forgot to give credit to Liberty Blitzkrieg for this.
Pool Shark, Even those who bought at $268 are still doing better than the people about to get a 30% haircut on their bank deposits.
A big bitcoin critic now says a small allocation makes sense. I still have my doubts but he makes some good points.
Get gold.....fin.....the end.
Class dismissed.
the gold/silver ratio is currently at 74:1
Think about that before you buy gold. S-E-V-E-N-T-Y-F-O-U-R TO O-N-E
Have some gold...a little.
But back the fucking truck up and stack that phyzz silver like it's going outta style. Because it literally is almost gone.
The out of ground ratio is currently around 10:1
And silver miners are being wiped out every day while silver mining production is drying up all over the world and China, India and Russia are using worthless fiat bullshit to scoop up every ton of silver (and gold) they possibly can before the shit finally hits the fan.
After that...precious metals will rule the world once again. And not only those who have the most gold will make the rules...but those who have the most fucking silver will also make the fucking rules.
Silver is being wiped out and hoarded away as a monetary metal and as an industrial metal which is used for dozens of things that gold is not used for industrially.
Gold is good for BIG things. But silver is absolutey indispensible for 99% of everything else in this world.
Get silver now and just wait...once that ratio comes back down to something "normal" then trade some silver for gold...if even any gold can be found.
In 2011 the GSR came down to about 30:1 at the height of the silver spike up to 49/oz.
This will happen again and in my humble opinion the GSR will go even lower...maybe back down under 20:1.
Get silver now and just wait for the GSR to start falling. Trade some at 50:1, then 40:1, then 30:1 and then 20:1 and hopefully we will gain very cheap ounces of gold for some of our cheap silver which will then balance out our phyzz stack at the bottom of the lake!!! ;-)
I hope the scumbags drive the paper price down even further. Get it while you can while there is still supply and the premium is still relatively low.
Don't forget what happened in 2008. Silver crashed to 10 bucks an ounce. But premiums spiked to nearly 100%. So it still cost nearly 20 bucks to get an ounce of silver.
Get it now ahead of the stampede before the shit hits the fan.
This next time around there won't even be premiums...the shit will just literally not be for sale for any fiat price.
But a monster box of silver Eagles or Buffaloes just might get you a kick ass chunk of land with a nice house on it somewhere out in the mountains off-grid and just might help you survive a while longer.
But don't forget first to stack guna, ammo, food, water, essential supplies and clothing, hunting/fishing/camping gear, and medical supplies. Plus anything else you think you'll need like fuel, generators, heirloom seeds for a garden, etc. etc. etc.
I'm also recommending some kind of fire kiln in order to melt PM's down in orde to make small gram size bullion nuggets of silver and gold for the ability to make fractional purchases without the trouble of trying to use 1 ounce coins, rounds, or bars that nobody else will be able to make "change" for. haha
In a month or so, we'll be reading about how many Greeks LOST THEIR ASS buying Bitcoin.
No they won't you tard... a Grexit is exactly what will push Bitcoin into the stratosphere and beyond.
YES!
Bitcoin is scarce and has an amazing number of utilities.
Currently, there are about 15M bitcoin but there will never be more than 21M ever (by 2040 about 99% of the bitcoins will be issued by the protocol).
Each bitcoin is divisible so much, 21M coins means 2.1 quadrillion usable units.
The internet connected population is estimated to be 3 079 339 857 currently, but growing rapidly.
I'll leave the math to you ;)
Yes, clearly the thing to do in a crisis is gamble with ones savings and seeing it increase...let it ride!...lol.
Your whole life is a gamble.
The difference comes down to fundamentals.
Choose:
Open source, decentralized, uncorruptible, uncensorable crypto based money.
or
Fiat Scam?
I've never been much on false choices or relying on any government to keep internet connections up & running during one of their many monthly-weekly-daily "crisis de jours".
That would be right about the time I might need some money ;-)
As if only the government can keep the internet running...
I recommend reading http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns
Sigh...I know a little bit about the internet, my point was CLEARLY they can shut it down anytime they want, call it a "national security issue", whatever. You see it now with all this ridiculous cyber security hogwash. Half the attacks are probably done by government(s) trying to create hysteria/crisis/purpose in order to control and/or regulate it.
You need a POP dude, you also must have commercial power, you must have a device in order to even access the internet...all of these things have zero to do with MONEY. Furthermore, the internet is an encumbrance to money (to what money really is) not some feature of it. Why do you think they want a cashless (that is, nothing physical regarding money, be it fiat-gold-silver) society now?
You are being herded toward something they can control.
So,
Is shouldhavekilledthem, Fonestar ?
lol...no I don't think so and I don't want to be misunderstood.
BitCoin is a conduit for money. I have no problem with anyone using it short term, as in the case with Greece it was helpful but...its not "money". Simply..."money" doesn't rely on anything else to be money or used as money. So by definition with BitCoins reliance on "other things" to be useful as money, it itself cannot be money no more than an ATM can be money.
Exchange rates are another problem, which is why I say short term use, buyer or seller wants assurance that what they exchange for...stays relatively stable.
The seller is usually sure the chair he sells will hold its value more than a day. The buyer is confident the chair will to. However they are both taking a gamble the price in BitCoins stays basically the same or one of them made a bad trade because of the instability in the "value" of BitCoin.
Spot on nwewn.
If anything Bitcoin and similar is yet another knife in the guts for cash circulation, and most people do in fact need the convenience and portability of cash.
How many times am I going to use Bitcoin in transactions? Approximately almost never. Because buying stuff online can be quite regrettable.
Or leave it in the bank and watch it dissapear ?
Allocate 2% BTChezzz....
What is to stop the FED from typing a few zeros on a keyboard to buy and then dump bitcoins at technically critical times in bitcoins rise?
just move a decimal point, happens all the time"accidentally"
potato/potatoe
see! -accidentally doubled my post:)
just move a decimal point, happens all the time"accidentally"
potato/potatoe
The big problem with these crypto currencies is that this will inevitably lead to more and more draconian and restrictive internet laws.
Good old shit coin yes! LOL
GOLD CHART here LOOKS BLOODY HORRIBLE . ==> http://bit.ly/1fMcakI UH OH!!!
Everytime you hear people scream about the market crashing it does nothing, while gold is copping and absolute flogging! LOL. ouchies.
Wow, you got so shrill about it, ya turned gay. "Ouchies".
I would say he approached "Flaming Homo" but we'll let Caitlen decide.
LTC not BTC
My Coinyes are now worthless. Thanks Kanye, you fuckin stooge.
Bank of England announced that they're running short of Sovereigns. Ummmh ummmmh ummmhhhhh
Shortage? Didn't Kate just print two new ones?
SATOSHI OMG WE LOVE YOU!!!!!
Satoshi is a salaryman for the NSA
If they run out of sovereigns it might be time to pick up some Bitcoin today! Don't delay BUH NOW!!
https://localbitcoins.com
"My Coinyes are now worthless. Thanks Kanye, you fuckin stooge."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....... teh coinye thing was the funniest shit ever!
LTC is a lowly bitcoin clone. Its surge is due to very shallow markets and a handful of manipulators.
And people hedging their btc bets. A massive rush will cause a bottleneck in bitcoin transaction times. People will spill over to litecoin, albeit temporarily as it can carry 4x the amount of transactions. Until the btc blocksize grows litecoin will become a sought after substitue tp transact with. It's small market cap allows for a massive increase
Litecoin can handle 4 times more transactions than Bitcoin. Bitcoin breaks if more than 5/1000th of 1% of the world uses it each day. I will not invest any more into such a pathetic transaction system and will not recommend my acquantences buy into a toy.
Bitcoin is not static.
Oh yeah, I believe you. lol
First of all bitcoin does not break if it's overloaded , it simply rejects the the surplus transactions. Block size will soon be increased to 20MB , then 200MB and then 1 gigabyte , despite what you are saying. MAX_BLOCK_SIZE was not a function in the first implementation of bitcoin , it was added later to prevent graffiti and spam filling up the blockchain. It's a simple code modification , in fact one line , the majority of users now want this , and due to it being a consensus protocol that is what will happen. My nodes can already hande 20MB blocks , once the majority of nodes can do this there will be a smooth transition to larger and larger block sizes until it will be on par and eventually exceed VISA and MC combined. Why would miners and users not want bitcoin to scale up ? Anybody who does not realise this , in 1973 a 1MB hard drive cost $75k and used 3KW of electricity. Today you can buy a 4TB drive for 75 dollars, in a couple of years time you will be able to buy a 4 ExaByte Solid State drive for the same price. No way bitcoin blocks will stay at 1MB for very long , it would be like saying no you cannot have fibre optic broadband , you have to keep your 2600 baud modem. Pointless.
The oligarchy in control of the reference code is not going to change. Sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your ignorance. Your loss is my gain.
No way bitcoin blocks will stay at 1MB for very long , it would be like saying no you cannot have fibre optic broadband , you have to keep your 2600 baud modem. Pointless.
You're working with a flawed premise borrowed from precious metals.
Money is "not" something difficult to obtain and thus valuable. Money "is" a "certified promise to complete a trade". It is created by traders. It is destroyed when traders deliver on their trading promises. In the interim time it exchanges as the most valued object of simple barter. That is its purpose. To enable simple barter over time and space.
Bitcoin and precious metals try to mimic money ... and fail miserably in a cesspool of corruption, manipulation, and gross misunderstanding and propaganda. And our dollars and euros fail due to purposeful mismanagement and self dealing.
20MB block size already implemented. 20MB will go live once >50% of nodes are upgraded.
Download from:
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/releases/
Ratio of 1MB to 20MB nodes can be seen here:
http://www.xtnodes.com/
GO BITCOIN !!!!!!!!!!!
Suckers, chuckers?
Your money is safe with us... (spoken with jew bankster accent)
As I've said from the beginning, BitCoin is a conduit for money, not money itself. Kudos to the common Greeks for getting their savings into the conduit and away from so-called authorities.
Not just true in Greece but also true in Spain and Portugal.
Has been true for some now apparently.
From "Dark Pools" to "Dark Dollars"...folks will always find a way back to their Franklins.
Very true.
I just never understood why they feel "more comfortable" or compelled to being charged fees for letting someone else (or some-thing) have control over it, when they can do it themselves.
One of lifes mysteries for me I guess.
A coffee can works just as well in any centrally planned zero interest rate enviroment, without the fee on keeping the principal and 0.2% interest "safe"...lol...in the event of some haphazard bail-in or the doors being locked for "the greater good of" the banking sector or socio-economic vitality of government employee pensioners ;-)
People always point fingers to the PIIGS, but forget that capital controls are being quietly implemented in their own countries. Over here, in Belgium, cash transactions above €3000 aren't allowed any longer "to combat fraud", in France the same limit applies, but starting in sept. the limit in France will be €1000. My bank silently lowered the maximum amount for wire transfers to €20K last year, combined with a list of countries (even European) that I must 'pre-allow' before any transfer takes place. When asked about why they changed the rules without even alerting me, they said it was for security reasons and to protect customers from internet fraud. Well, to protect my savings from another type of fraud, the only money that's left in my account, is the money I'm willing to loose. It's not convenient, the house being in construction and all, but at least I'll be able to pay the builders.
Yes, Greece's boat crashed down the waterfall with almost no survivors...'How far upstream is your own country?' -- might be a prudent question to ask.
Citizens distrust government because they always break promises. Yet, citizens trust their savings in promises from the same government.
"To combat fraud". Crying with laughter, thank you friend.
Bitcoin is the wormhole not the worm
No, it is money itself and can be used as such quite clearly demonstrated. using it as a conduit for fiat is just an extra, not what it is.
Well said. Bitcoin is money and a lot more. :)
Money is whatever two people say it is. This is the problem with group think induced by public indoctrination schools or so called public schools.
We had money in Iran and after the revolution we could only get our money out by buying Persian rugs and exporting them. Very complicated and expensive.
Bitcoin seems to be the ideal solution if local currency is accepted. If you can buy now you can evade controls. Makes sense if willing to take the risk.
That's why those damn (but very lovely) rugs are so expensive.
If you think BTC is any safer than deposits you're a sucker. PM's, cash in hand, and hard assets. Liguidate your 401k, stocks, etc. and pay down your debt, that's the only safe bet with what's coming.
No teh we thinks that Bitcoin is superior to everything, including life and love itself.
Bitcoin's value depends on the largest ammalgamation of computational power ever applied by mankind to do work remains "honest". It is an experiment, and anybody anywhere anytime can apply any amount of computational power to support or attack the network. If you support the network you get paid, if you attack the network you can, in theory, short bitcoin and reap profits from that angle. The security of your deposits in some bank depend on just a few chumps and/or the gubermint.
PMs and cash in hand are perfect when I trade it for the lead from my AR-15 - thanks. Bitcoin. Hmm. I'd have to torture you for the private key password.
$238? Where the fuck is that guy that was pumping bitcoin so hard on here? (his name escapes me). He's got some splainin' to do. Last I heard it had retracted to $600 and was basing for a move to $2,000.
I think his name was Fonestar.
BTW who invented bitcoin? Oh that's right, nobody knows.
fonestar is with you, and also with you!
https://btc-e.com
how do you know that nobody knows?
i highly suspect that 1 or more persons do know.
it's what donald rumsfeld would call a known unknown:
Donald Rumsfeld Unknown Unknowns !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk
Who invented gold?
The gods.
You meant "God" (singular).
There. Fixed it for ya.
i had learned gold originated physically in supernovas.. but apparently the science is still out.. maybe neutron star collisions. either way, it's some pretty cool and old stuff.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/origin-of-gold-fou...
The part I don't like is gold decays into tungsten and then into lead.
This is a Reuters MSM article.
"Ironically, on June 20, Greece got its first bitcoin "ATM", in a family-run bookstore in Acharnes on the outskirts of Athens."
How convenient is that? Just in time for bank holidays. Quick, to the Bitcoin lifeboats! /sarc/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto How's this for timing?Halloween 2008! http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.general/12588/His name was originally fonestar. After he got banned, then it became ghoatrider, then it became Bangalore Equity Trader, then RUGAY2, and at present it is Waylon Bits.
I might have missed a few.
Bobby Digital was killed off in less than 24 hrs...
But today Waylon Bits is still with you! The same old fonestar P.A.L. you've come to love over the years!
Teh we was never "Banglore Equity Trader" though... awesome handle but it wasn't teh we....
Our good friend Francis is lurking under a different name as well.
His awesome prose can occasionally be seen in the comments.
For the discerning eye, they are uniquely Francis.
Really? Did you do a keyword search for "Joos"?
Come back fonestar........
fonestar is with you!
Bitcoin is a crypto-currency. It is not money. Only gold is money.
I'm sorry sweethart, but you don't get to decide on what money is and what isn't. If it's portable, divisible, fungible, durable, scarce, non-consumable, and stores value - it's money, and bitcoin pulls it.
If civilization crumbles and we don't have the internet, or even electricity, gold is still money, bitcoin is just a nice idea. In fact, every atom of gold will still exist when the universe dies and there will be no humans left to remember what bitcoin is.
If we don't have Internet anymore, I will be more worried on how to avoid eating nuclear dust and radiation, Gold won't help me here.
Oh I haven't even spoke about meshnet or decentralized Internet (via long range WIFI relay).
Double post removed.
Diversify. When was the last time most of us here used Gold to buy goods? Gold is for when MadMax comes knocking. Not like you are gonna atomize yer gold, stuff it into the end of your ethernet cable and blow really hard. Digital money for when the internet is still up and running, Gold for when civilization collapses. Diversify.
Wrong, this is where you bitcoinauts jump the shark. Say the shit has hit the fan and the only use for fiat is toilet paper. You want to buy our gas can. You offer us x bitcoins. We say, "No thanks, but we will accept a Franklin half-dollar". OF COURSE the individual gets to decide what is money/has value!
Nobody denies your point. Supply and Demand.
Let me introduce you to the early bootstrapping phase and price discovery of bitcoin.
Could have been me, lol. I have rebased lower but not enough. I am looking for greater fools. Bitcoin can only process transactions for 5/1000th of 1% of the world per day. The oligarchy in charge of the official source code won't budge off that pathetic figure. Get out. Get out now.
I actually find this interesting. Bitcoin might not be perfect, but if I were in Greece, I would take a chance. What's to stop a lot of people from switching over to Bitcoin for their business? Interesting times ahead.
If that ATM starts spitting oit Grrenbacks for "bits/bytes"...
If I were in Greece I would already have only the minimum amount in the bank to keep my account open and not paying fees. My savings would be in sovereigns. Pantry well stocked and a supply of other goodies for trade. An effective weapon and practice to be reasonably proficient in handling it.
Heck, I am not even in Europe and that is how I live
+1000
If you are in Greece and still have substantial money in the bank, you might think about giving up the Ouzo for a while.
See article below this one on ZH home page about attacks on the internet and power grid. Now think about the future of bitcoin in a collapsing world order.
it's all well and good to speculate what might happen in the future.
but at this time, bitcoin does work, and it does allow me to move lots of USD anywhere in the world i want, without any possibility of capital controls.
people who bring up this argument to say that bitcoin shouldn't be used is like saying, you should stop driving a car right now, because, someday, there might not be any oil.
A "paper promise" (in the form of dollar, pound, etc) is a futures contract when exchanged for a good.
Every dollar printed in the USA has its picture taken "before publication" as well Mr Counterfeiter guy...
anywhere?
basically, yes.
anywhere that has an internet connection.
You [in the future]: How much for the sack of dried beans?
Vendor [in alley, whispering]: .01 bitcoins
You: Holy crap! Thats' kind of steep, isn't it?
Vendor: I still got some dried dog food...
You: No, the wife and kids got worms from that last time. I'll take the beans... How do you want me to transfer my bitcoins?
Vendor: The internet and cell phones are down. We can't do it electronically.
You [checking smart phone]: OK, here's my key...
Vendor: Great. I should be able to manually compute the hash in about a week to verify you own them.
You: Sweet. So I can come back in a week to get the beans?
Vendor: Well, no. In a week, we have to go downtown to another guy that can still send transactions to bitcoin every so often and register the transaction. Then we go back the next day and confirm that the blockchain has been updated and I am now the owner of the .01 bitcoin. Then you get the beans.
You: Bitcoins are f'king GENIUS. Why did we ever use cash? Hahahhhaa.
Vendor: I know, right?
You: OK. So in the mean time, how much dog food can I get for this silver dime?
If the internet and cellphones have been destroyed, then you have bigger problems. Those require destruction greater than humanity can withstand to be wiped out.
Bigger problems than food? What, water and shelter?
Pussy.
Irradiated food and water then no anti-atomic shelter for everyone.
"...If the internet and cellphones have been destroyed, then you have bigger problems..."
Why would you think they would be 'destroyed'? They're networks. They can be degraded. Switches can be turned off. Lines can be cut. Equipment can break. Segments can be unreachable. Addresses or phone numbers can be blocked. Your government can selectively and temporarily hit the KILL switch if it serves their evil purposes. In either case, you need some kind of account at a provider to use either the internet or your cell phone. Providers can be down without the entire internet or public phone network being down or vice versa. Maybe the government wants to monitor all bitcoin transactions for 'terrorist' activity, tax collection purposes (or simply not permit them at all).
There will always be commercial and government interest in restoring internet and cell phone service if or when it goes out. Their ability and/or willingness to do that may be an issue. You - as a private end user - are probably the least of their concerns. You have absolutely no control over it. If the SHTF, it would be an exceptionally bad idea to rely on municipal water supplies, electricity, wired or cell phones, cable, or the internet as being there 100% of the time and/or useable.
Bitcoin has it's place, but it's not (and never will be) a fool-proof, guaranteed, 100% available solution for all monetary exchange. It has risk like holding metal or cash - the risk is just different in nature. Whether it's 'better' or 'worse' depends on everyone's individual assumptions about the future. If you're not planning on buying food in an alley some day, then you probably don't give a crap if the internet isn't available for a few weeks or months. You're bitcoins are still there if your key is still there and the blockchain is still somewhere.
The transactional aspects of bitcoin are different than the store of value aspects. In WW2 my father used a gold watch to store and transfer his savings. Now those two roles are separated, nothing more.
The perfect excuse for a 'bank holiday' to be renamed a turrurist attack. Note the date. 8/14/2008. Just as things were falling apart.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2061913/posts
Well Bitcoin/Loin is the perfect solution for those wanting to get money overseas.
Gold & Cash is not as you will be searched, metal detectors etc.
Boin and Loin maybe the equivalent of sewing gold into the hems of your garments...
Bitcoin WILL be safer than your deposits if capital controls come in, of course they will be. However what you should be doing is getting your bitcoins, and having them then converted to a currency (or gold) in an overseas bank account.
You can move quite a bit of gold through metal detectors. Google "rapper gold chain" for more information. Or are countries starting to sieze peoples' jewelry at the borders? The only thing i have seen people worried about travelling with are stacks of paper currency, not solid gold accessories to go trade in India.
While wer're on the subject (not really, but...)-
It looks to me like Andrew Maguire is setting himself up for a Harvey Organ moment -
http://www.kingworldnews.com/andrew-maguire-the-price-of-silver-is-set-t...
If Ag doesn't move by the end of the summer, I say we put the last nail in Andy's coffin (and throw Turd in with him) and then bury it next to Harvey's.
And I'll take a crowd-funding to go to England and shoot out his porch light.
show me where he says it will move by the end of the summer. looks to me like he is talking about what potentially might happen.
harvey organ gave a very specific prediction that didn't materialize.
maguire did nothing of the sort.
i say we save that coffin for you, instead.
We're both wrong. Listen to the interview. He said 4Q15 for "$20 higher". So I'll give you another three months to hold the embalming fluid. If Ag is under $35 - you drink it.
The first thing I want to do is take any TANGIBLE wealth I have and digitize it.
Please subscribe to: Retards "R" US.LTD
Goldman Slacks, and the Gartman Newspisser, authorize this fungible advertisment...
What tangible wealth? Money in a bank account that you can't extract in toilet paper form anyway, and are about to have digitally confiscated? If you've got "money" in a bank account, you've got a digital asset in somebody else's wallet.
So you have your liquid assets in stauks (digital), bank deposits (digital) or PM (not digital but easily pried from your cold (preferably) dead hands)?
You must be the CEO of Retards "R" US (Ltd).
... these are some of the reasons why BRICS might come to the aid of the Hellenic Republic ...
... in this article "Greek PM Tsipras Meets with Gazprom Chief, BRICS Delegation in St Petersburg", >>> http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/19/greek-pm-tsipras-meets-with-gazprom-chief-brics-delegation-in-st-petersburg/ ... there's one name that came up which interestingly represents IMF & BRICS ... BRICS' new VP ... Brazil's Paulo Nogueira Batista, Jr. ... that name is also at IMF ... Mr. Batista Jr. is an executive managing director at IMF ... >>> https://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/eds.aspx ...
... this fact was announced here ... >>> "... Brazil’s envoy to the IMF and newly announced BRICS Bank Vice President , Paulo Nogueirga Batista, ..." (middle name spelled wrong but the same fellow) >>> http://thebricspost.com/we-need-to-do-our-own-thing-brics-business-meet/ ... and this is his view on how to "reform" the IMF >>> http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/imf-reform-us-congress-delinking-by-paulo-nogueira-batista-and-hector-r--torres-2015-04
... meanwhile, here's an article which says in part ... " ... Russia is now one of the few countries Athens might realistically turn to for money and state-run media are having a field day, depicting the EU as a discredited and dysfunctional empire in terminal decline." >>> http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-engages-in-waiting-game-over-greeces-eu-referendum/524991.html ...
... we can always draw our own conclusions on 'what might happen' to the Greece debacle after Sunday ... but it seems to me that the IMF (one of the Troika) is in cahoots with BRICS ... what's the play here? ...
... and if you get bored with the above, you can check this out ... "'Naked Hair Salon' in Moscow> >>> http://world.korupciya.com/2015/07/03/in-russia-the-naked-girls-sheared-men-in-hairdresing-salon-video-18/
All on schedule, more or less. The pivot east continues.
http://redefininggod.com/
It defeats the purpose of acquiring bitcoins, if you have them in a wallet that you're trusting someone else to hold for you.
Ya think? Every blockchain has a weak link. The Shitcoiners are correct in theory. So were the Germans, French, Spanish before they realized the NSA was clocking toilet flushes in their embassies.
The product is safe... The delivery, NOT SO MUCH!
ummm?...so, maybe, don't hold them in someone else's wallet, hold them in your own wallet?
Yes... The phantom"dark wallet". Where's the utility in that? As soon as you open the walllet you're opening it's reserves.
Do you know why Shitcoin derivates aren't being pushed? The "RISK' premium is too high! I looked into Shitcoin options (2) years ago.
The risk premium wasn't worth it, vs time decay.
The real reason derivatives of Bitcoin are not attractive is because they add nothing of value, but still charge for their use.
In Gold, derivatives remove the problems of storage and security for a price. It is a pain to take physical delivery if you are just using Gold as an asset to back your real trade...
In Bitcoin, it is trivial to 'take delivery', and there is no reason to add the complexity and cost of a derivative.
Use a local wallet to control youy Bitcoins (no counter party)... elecronic if you wish (Phone, PC), or analogue (paper, brain wallet),
Derivates are not Bitcoin, just as GLD is not Gold.
My point exactly. These people have the right idea, exchanging an intangible digital asset, their Greek bank account balance, into another intangible digital asset that might be safer. But then:
"A lot of people are keeping all the bitcoins they buy on our platform, until they understand what to do with them," Marinos said. "In their eyes, now they have bitcoins, they're safe."
Doh!
Your point is factually incorrect. If these people had a choice they would be using their paper promises to buy food or gold.
Greece hasn't reverted back to the Drachma yet. Why would I take my euros and convert them into shitcoins, if I that my currency hasn't changed?
It does make sense to convert if you're fleeing the country, or you want access to capital in a different currency market/exchange.
shit cross, let's try and follow along, here.
greeks have deposits in a bank, but are limited in what they can take out in euros.
they want to avoid a haircut on their deposits, so if they use their balance to buy bitcoins, it's a way of extracting their wealth from the banking system.
Okay ad hominum clown. I'll try.
Greeks are limited to hypothetically (locked down ) to €62 per day to be exact!
They don't have the option to parlay their savings at this point you idiot! The last thing I would do is take my .gov mandated dole and disburse it into SHITCOINS!
Now that we've crossed the the axis of left to right, let me reiterate I looked into Shitcoin 2 years ago, and the RISK premium wasn't worth it. FUCK YOU very much you Rookie .
if you can call bitcoins, shitcoins, then i can call yen cross, shit cross.
you're still not following along - the suggestion was NOT to use the paper euros they received to buy bitcoins.
the idea is to use the electronic euros locked up in their account, which they can't access otherwise anyways, to buy bitcoins.
your comment about "risk premium" shows that you still don't get it, you are thinking of bitcoin as an asset, like gold, instead of as a tool to move funds around and past capital controls.
got it, newbie?
You shitcoiners are all the same. I usually stay away from the idiocy. Any Greek that's got any savings isn't converting them into Shitcoins.
They are buying euros and gold-silver ect.
Your punishment for that ignorant statement is to climb back down into your damp bunker , eat 2 cans of your favourite 30 years old stale prepper food , read the next chapter of 'how to survive when the internet and power grid are shut down: to stop bitcoin'. Once you have finished that , take out your Flat Earth map and memorise which lake you left your stash at , you will be needing the co-ordinates so you can buy more prepper food after the armageddon.
The funny thing is, Bitcoin is probably the best way to stay mobile with CASH.
If you wanted to bring cash to Greece right now.... your safest, fastest and easiest method of getting cash in greece past govt past custom past everyone who wants to rob you is ... bitcoin.
I think Bitcoin is great just for the fact that it is FREE FROM GOVT.
Technology has gotten rid of currency.
Lets see if it can get rid of govt as well.
My Credit Union doesn't take Shitcoins? I'd be long Credit Unions (owned by the depositers) before I Shitcoined my tangible assets.
They use "ATM's" too.
Rather a person than a machine to validate your currency?
Certainly not if your dealing in the Black Market...
What's your point? DAV, as usual you deviate from the subject into another place that has absolutely zero connection with the subject.
I'm trying to work with you, but you aren't giving me much fodder. Think before you post DAV. Use that thing in ~between your ears.~
Your credit union doesn't take gold either, and will be wiped out at literally the exact same time the banks are.
It's like pretending your left and right hands are different.
At least I own shares in the ponzi you fool! We all have bills to pay. How do you pay your electric bill, phony bill ect.?
At least I can swing dicks with the "elected officers" of my credit union during uneventfull member gatherings.
Credit unions = same fiat scam.
Replace all politicians with open source software.
Pirates of the Meditarranian...
I'm posting from Ubuntu 14 and some change.
Ying Yang turned me onto this> http://zorin-os.com/
I love Linux.
Too funny.
"Careful with those Drones...
Be careful with those pill bottles and minature airline cocktails.
Greeks turn to village farmers for help -
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GREECE_RESILIENT_VILLAGES?SITE...
LOL Surged from 238 to 268.... Yea, that's a massive surge....YAWNNNN
Bitcoin still sucks
I have a huge folder on SHITCOIN! POOPCOIN, BARFCOIN, USACOIN, someone stop me before I run out of acronyms...
You complained to stack, about ad hominum attacks on you ... but you use ad hominum attacks to ridicule Bitcoin. Can you say hypocrisy !!
hey, newb, you don't seem to know what "acronym" means:
An acronym is an abbreviation formed from the initial components in a phrase or a word. Usually these components are individual letters (as in NATO or laser) or parts of words or names (as in Benelux).
Bitcoin could still help in Greece for people who import or need to make international payments that are blocked by the Greek banks, but it does nothing to restore any value depositors lost. The issue is that Greeks would have to buy Bitcoins with 'Greek Euros' aka Euros deposited and trapped in Greek banks. These 'Greek Euros' would not trade at face value to actual Euros, but would be priced to the market expectation that Greek deposits take a haircut as well as how long the market foresees the capital controls to remain in Greece. In this case Bitcoins don't save any of the value Greeks have lost by depositing their Euros into insolvent Greek banks, but it at least allows them access to an international payment system.
This is true, but bitcoins are NOT a direct store of value, like gold is.
My heart goes out to you and other hard working Greeks. May you vote "NO" this weekend and become a "Beacon of Hope" for new beginnings. The cradle of humanity rests at your cusp once again. The Gods grow wrestless.