This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
What It All Comes Down To On Sunday
As expected (and as tipped here on Thursday immediately after news broke that an IMF study conducted prior to the imposition of capital controls in Greece suggests debt relief for Athens is necessary if anyone hopes to create some semblance of sustainability), Greek PM Alexis Tsipras is now leaning hard on voters to carefully consider the fact that one-third of the troika has effectively validated the Greek government’s position on creditor writedowns.
“This position was never proposed to the Greek government over the five months of negotiations, wasn’t included in final offer tabled by creditor institutions, on which people are going to vote on July 5,” Tsipras said in a televised address, making it clear to Greeks that the proposals they are voting on effectively do not reflect the views of the institution that is perhaps the country’s most influential creditor.
“This IMF report justifies our choice not to accept an agreement which ignores the fundamental issue of debt,” he added, driving the point home.
Clearly, this puts Europe, and especially Germany, in a rather unpalatable position. Many EU officials have for months insisted that IMF participation is critical if the Greeks hope to secure a third bailout. The IMF meanwhile, has stuck to a position first adopted years ago (something we’ve noted in these pages multiple times of late); namely that official sector writedowns will ultimately be necessary if Brussels hopes to finally put the Greek tragicomedy to bed. This means Brussels (and Berlin) will now be forced to choose between IMF involvement (which the EU says is a precondition for a deal) and haircuts (which the EU says aren’t possible).
Here’s Barclays - a major investment bank - with its own confirmation that the IMF may have assured a No vote over the weekend.
The document basically argues that OSI is a necessary condition in order to secure sovereign solvency with a high probability. This means that before the IMF re-engages in any lending activities with Greece, OSI will be required in the form of NPV debt relief.
The timing of the publication of this report it is very important. Debt relief is something that the Greek authorities have repeatedly demanded; therefore, in a way this report can be interpreted as the IMF backing the Greek government's demands. By extension, it could also be interpreted as supportive of a 'No' vote, which is what the Greek government is campaigning for.
We agree broadly with the analytical content of the report and the need for further OSI. This is in fact hardly new news. Europe has recognized since November 2012 that Greece needs further OSI to make debt dynamics sustainable with high probability. The IMF advice of an NPV haircut via a debt maturity extension (to 40 years) is in line with expectations.
However, the critical point is that the IMF now requires debt-relief before it engages in a new programme, which confronts Europeans with a tough political decision. Many in Europe, including Germany, considered OSI as a future carrot in exchange for reforms today following good programme execution. Debt relief was conceived as a part of a third programme to be negotiated possibly with a new Greek government.
At the same time, Germany has been adamant about the importance of IMF involvement in any financial support programme for Greece. Thus, Germany will now be confronted with a tough choice: to deliver on the IMF's demand, ie to engage in OSI negotiations in the form of NPV debt relief, or give up on IMF involvement. We believe that there is mounting support across other member states for the OSI discussion, therefore, we believe that Germany may not be able to resist such discussions any longer.
"I am guessing that this is a negotiating tactic ahead of the negotiations for a new programme for Greece. The IMF very well knows that a debt write-off is out of the question," one unnamed EU official told MNI.
“The numbers are quite high, not in line with our assessment and our baseline scenario. We are examining different scenarios for the day after the referendum and provided the vote is Yes, we are ready to come up with solutions. But it is not going to be easy to agree. Certainly this report does not make it any easier," another source said.
It's easy to see why Europe is reluctant to accept the IMF's assessment. As discussed at length on Thursday, were Europe to go down the OMI road, Brussels would be opening Pandora's Box. Here's why:
By now it should be clear to all that the only reason why Germany has been so steadfast in its negotiating stance with Greece is because it knows very well that if it concedes to a public debt reduction (as opposed to haircut on debt held mostly by private entities such as hedge funds which already happened in 2012), then the rest of the PIIGS will come pouring in: first Italy, then Spain, then Portugal, then Ireland.
The problem is that while it took Europe some 5 years to transfer a little over €200 billion in Greek private debt exposure to the public balance sheet (by way of the ECB, EFSF, ESM and countless other ad hoc acronyms) at a cost of countless summits and endless negotiations, which may or may not result with the first casualty of the common currency which may prove to be reversible as soon as next week, nobody in Europe harbors any doubt that the same exercise can be repeated with Italy, or Spain, or even Portugal. They are just too big (and their nonperforming loans are in the hundreds of billions).
As for the IMF's position, Barclays notes that a permanent default by Greece would not be a trivial event, thus providing further incentive for the Fund to push for EU writedowns:
With the IMF’s total resources being roughly USD760bn – USD420bn of which are considered the ‘forward commitment capacity’ – the IMF has the firepower to ‘survive’ a permanent default of Greece while maintaining sufficient resources to be able to lend out fresh credit for countries in need. However, it would make a significant dent in the ongoing IMF finances – eg, the interest paid on IMF loans is used to cover IMF’s operational cost – and would very likely create intense debate about Europe’s relationship with the IMF and the balance of power between DM and EM members. One question could also be whether or not the euro area IMF members should not in some way be liable for the outstanding Greek debts. In turn, this would also intensify a debate about the sharing of liabilities/solidarity within the euro area and the EU.
So, thanks to a well-timed IMF report, Tsipras can now frame Sunday's plebiscite as a simple Yes/No vote on Greece's debt pile, which makes it far easier to vote "no."
"Do you think Europe should forgive your debt, check box 'Yes' or 'No'."
That should be an easy choice, although it depends upon the Greek public understanding the significance of the IMF's position which, as indicated above, Tsipras is doing his very best to facilitate. The bottom line: Sunday's vote is about whether Greece will agree to remain a debt colony of Germany, pardon Europe, even as the IMF (and, paradoxically, Germany) agrees with Athens that the country's debt is unsustainable.
"No" means a lot of pain now and recovery later.
"Yes" means less pain now but no hope of recovery ever.
* * *
Choose wisely...
»
- 93855 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Nuke it from outer space, it is the only way to be sure.
"No" means a lot of pain now and recovery later.
"Yes" means less pain now but no hope of recovery ever.
In 2008, the choice in the U.S. was yes.
So here we are, 7 years later, with no recovery.
That's funny! Sentiment was super against the bailout and it happened anyway. (sentiment LOL) That had to be the biggest swindle by the tribe of all time. AIG's Greenberg *knew* all along his CDS paper would get bailed out @ par but then Blankfein threw one right in his fanny. There is no honor among the tribe and they damage the shit of every damn thing. Yeah, yeah, some are good.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-15/dramatic-decision-judge-finds-f...
Our local area had a town hall meeting with former Congreasedmn Jerry Lewis.
I asked him why he had voted for the bail out (I was pretty pissed, profane, and had a coil of rope wrapped around my chest, 2 five gallon buckets of Henry Tar on the bed of the 48 and about a thousand pounds of chicken feathers in four monstore bags) after he admitted that he had received overwhelming constituent rejection of bailing out the fucking banks, yet he felt compelled to vote for it.
In the Theater of the local college I asked why he had unilaterally decided to vote against his overwhelming constituent opposition, vote to over turn the rule of law and the Constituion, and whether we should hang him or tar and feather him.
The guy was pathetic, he lowered the mike and came up to me. He said "Look, we were all told that we're either going to get fucked nice and slow, or we're going to get fucked hard, pistol whipped, cut up, gang raped up the ass, and ultimately salughtered. I voted to get raped nicely."
Took all the wind out of my sails for that night. I actually felt sorry for him and didn't lead the lynch mob.
Two years later the wife and I were in Whorington DC and we tried to stop by his orifice. His staff refused to allow us to make an appointment, see him or make any contact. Wound up tagging along on a tour of DC by a kid from the Chicago (Dem) representative. The kid was bright, articulate, knowlegable and personal. At the end of the tour we were so impressed we wanted to compliment his boss. The Chicago peole could give a shit, they just left. And we waited in the Rep's office for thirty minutes or so before this greasy, smarmy guy comes out to greet us. We assume it's the office manager and we tell him how great a job his kid did on giving our tour. To us it was a nice, personal touch of hospitality adn welcome, along with a huge dose of history and plans for the future. The SOB gave a greasy, ass kissing smile, asked if we were from Chicago, when we said 'No', he went all grey and stone-faced, turned and walked away. All we wanted to do was give Kudos to the kid. Turns out that we had been talking to whoever the fuck was the Representative of Chicago was a couple of years ago. I don't know, some smarmy, greasy, black guy.
Ron Paul's office. We stop by and say that we're actually from California, big fans and voters for his presidency. The office people explain that he should be in in about fifteen minutes and we're more than welcome to meet him. We come back after 15 minutes and they're apologetic that he got side-tracked on some CNN interview, can we have a cell phone number?
We cruise the cafeteria under the Rayburn building. I get a call. "We're sorry but Dr. Paul has been called home for a family event. If you'd like, please come back over to his office."
We go, staff brings us coffee, water, offers danish and shit. "Would you like to see Dr. Paul's office?" Fuck YEAH!
Have a picture of my wife sitting at his desk, signing a paper.
Two weeks later we got mail from Dr. Paul. "Thanks for trying to see me. I'm so sorry I missed you. I know it's dumb but here's a picture of me in my office. You wife's is better. PS...Senate passed her bill."
But queers get to marry! Doesn't that count for something?
"And what it all comes down to - is that everything's going to be - nein nein nein! Cause I got the Troika in my pocket and the Germans on the outside looking in."
he he
happy friday
IMF/WTO war Goldman corruption Hegemony immorality
Brenton Woods Reboot try chance morality
Just pull up the IMF/World bank leaders and it really is that simple....IMF Lagarde, Dominiqque Strauss-Kahb World bank Zoellick, Wolfowitz
so you have Lagarde Tapie thef, rapist,vampire Squid lackey, and war criminal and theif.
NOW THAT IS the VoteSetting aside what I think the West Turks truly deserve, I wouldn't even bother voting. Realistically, the choice is between austerity and communism. If Greeks choose communism, they will get austerity (as usual).
Me, I'd be making plans to GTFO of Greece and stay out.
If elections changed anything, they wouldn't be held at all. Vote with your feet.
To any Greeks reading this: Aegean Airlines are offering discount fares on flights to Greece and back to cities with large Greek populations in normal countries. If you can still afford a ticket, I suggest you be on one of the flights out of Greece. It could be your last chance.
The Zionist Hun is going to be driven out of Greece pretty soon anyways.
Surely those answers are wrong and the reverse is true.
To those that keep saying “Hey Greece took on debts and they need to pay them,” you are people of good will, but lack understanding.
It is in our evolutionary history to pay back debts, and I honor that sentiment.
But, let’s have a simple goods “debt” example in alignment with our evolutionary history. I’m taking money out of the equation. You borrow a chick from a neighbor or some eggs. The chick grows and becomes a chicken then lays eggs. You pay back your creditor with a chick and eggs. Pretty good deal, you both win. The creditor/debtor relationship works out for both parties. It works mainly because the earth inputs energy and allows growth. Your labor was rewarded with more chickens.
Now, let us assume that I and my tough brother take over the fishing grounds of the island. We defend it, and you cannot have access to what was formerly your fish. You and your family begin to starve. I can easily pull a few fish out of the fishing grounds and trade it to you. Since you are desperate you will even trade you daughter to me. I like the way she looks, and I will trade you for a fish. It took five minutes for me to get the fish, but I get your daughter in trade. It is an uneven, usurious trade. I have cornered the fishing ground and I am now taking rents on the population.
The Greek tragicomedy is the same thing. It is creditors taking usurious rents on the Greek population. The rental mechanism is buried and opaque, but it is the same thing as the fish example.
Of course, on the island the townspeople would vote in a new Chief, and he would make a police force, to then bash in my head. But, with money systems the usury can be hidden and the Chief may be bought out.
Money and prices can be confusing, even to economists. But, the bottom line is that the “deal” is uneven and has built in usury. Creditors want to control Greece’s fishing grounds forever, especially by acquiring the commons in debt trade, so the townspeople will NEVER be able to pay their foreign creditors back. It is a usury system that uses debt mechanisms to enslave.
MEFO _ I liked your analogy but then I thought that you understated the discount involving getting a Greek daughter for fishes.
As we know from Wall St its the white girls that the neo Bolsheviks want.
MEFOBILLS; Perhaps debt owned by Foreigners should be Verbotten.
Maybe as we Simplify, Streamline, and Standardize ... all Taxes, rules, accounting, financial ratings, financial instruments... we also address this issue by disallowing Foreign Ownership of Debt.
What does that mean in an European Union?
What would it mean in the USA if Individual States had debt on Wall Street or were dependent on Federal Government each year to meet their annual budget?
What did it mean to Iceland when their debts were Foreign Owned in 2008-2009?
-
Clearly if you talk about states rights, states sovereignty, states ability to speak freely, discuss issues, chose their own future, have self actualization,... the dependency has to END.
It is the same issue with dependency on Gift Giving, Campaign Contributions, PACs, and Lobby Contributions for Local, State, and Federal Politicians. But it extends to Local Governments & State Governments as a whole when they need to meet budgets for education, or other city/county costs similar to those captured by Property Taxes or fees/taxes on Insurance/Banking/Utilities.
I don't know much about taxes & fees. I am just covering the bases.
Question: Should Foreign Entities own Debt of sovereign People? And if so at what levels and which levels should be Prohibited: Households, Non-Profits, Local Govts, State Govts, Federal Government, or Central Bank?
You'll notice are background IMF has on new Tranny shower background of shower tiles to represent cleaning up homosexuality and LGBTS.
Our TPP maids will clean up yor DNA presents. You can continue operations as a dick sucker and anal flap fucker to instill a new gay pop sex stall restroom and flesh down the semon DNA. Just wait until these little faggots start requiring 50% of assets to elivate his/dyke/transexual money.
Another short term BAR Association cock ring to make short term forecast profit. Then the government gays will figure out they should of stayed in the closet.
We warned you, now fuck you. Keep grinding a asshole. You have no idea about the new gay marriage pit falls. Think about ObamaCare and HIV, STD. Your lifestyle will peak medical coverage. ObamaCare coverage will be lower for heterosexuals. Thank You Gay Pride movement.
IMF Presentation on Fiscal Policy and Growth
http://www.imf.org/external/mmedia/view.aspx?vid=4330984062001
Guess they'll have to redo the old Cinderfella movie now...
Glad to see my comment made it real.
Now, drop the soap to see which BAR scumbag will represent you as a heterosexuals or coming out of the closet just married undecided fag fuck to collect taxpayer money.
Talking in a lisp voice, I need a attorney to collect 50% of my poop chute marrage guy so I can grifter his money and do the same with my next poop chute gay marriage sugar buns.
Watch these theives. Stealing from people as a disfunctiional faggot will land you a death warrant. No taxpayer spending needed.
But debt is irrelevant. Krugman told me so.
So saideth Dick Cheney too
But we have a pre-existing HIV medical situation and need others to pay the ObamaCare medical cost for our sexually deviant behavior. Sick motherfuckers, take them to the back shed.
Isn.t austerity a virtue?
Forgive us our debts as we forgive those indebted unto us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjIA2I8Qkp8
What would Obama do?
Issue an Executive Order that the votes of the >70 don't count, on grounds of being Mentally Incompetent.
Millitary coup will be tried if the vote dont go tptb way. Best be ready to play it to the bone. That goes for all honest folks around the world.
The bill would be secret. We would not be able to read it for 100 years.
Yep,,, greatest demockracy the world has ever known....
there will very soon be a lot of financially hurting ppl in US/world, nothing to do w/ iq
Issue an Executive Order that the votes of the >70 don't count, on grounds of being Mentally Incompetent.
Unfortunately, that would be the first EO I'd have to agree with.
Attention all Greeks. If you see a shower head in your voting booth on Sunday, don’t go in there.
You might wanna bring some soap P U.
I don't think you're getting the historical reference....
http://www.jewishmag.com/21mag/nazi/nazi.htm
There are days when you have to stand behind the leaders of your country. Sunday is such a day for the population of Greece. Tsipras and Varoufakis fought hard against Goliath and all odds. They deserve the trust of the Greek population and the Greek population should stand behind them.
Trust is earned. Lets see some arrests today!
With torches and pitchforks.
Varoufakis is a rich douche who will be on the first flight out when the shooting starts. Tsipras is a dumb jock who never had stable employment outside politics and has lived off his woman his entire adult life---and his woman, Betty Batziana, is something else again.
Betty is the batshit insane Bolshevik in that relationship, who has devoted her life to making herself Big Sister. Think the craziest, most controlling feminist whose path you've ever crossed, give her a comp sci degree, and that's Batshit Betty.
Batshit Betty tells her mangina Alexis what to do, and Alexis does it without argument. He only joined their commie cult because she told him to--his only genuine passion appears to be soccer. If he defies Betty, he risks being kicked out of her bed and out of their commie cult, leaving with nowhere to go but his mom's basement, if he's lucky.
Batshit Betty has wanted power all her life. She has power over her man, and over her country, beyond Hillary's wildest dreams. And nothing short of death will convince her to give it up now.
So? I know a lot of married men who can relate.
Yeah, but normally they never get anywhere near elective office.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927481/Woman-radicalised-Greek-Che-Guevara-publicity-shy-lady-helped-new-PM-lead-communist-student-revolt.html
Damn, compared to my wife in her twenties
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=old+toothless+woman&view=detailv2&&&id=DBF067751517BC75B14BFBE8620ED02259A59DFF&selectedIndex=0&ccid=Td17GxQh&simid=607993028429023278&thid=JN.DWeYgc0HWN3f6zDK9LalOQ&ajaxhist=0
I'd do what ever she wants too.
1. Nobody's that good a lay.
2. She's probably hasn't touched him in years. If it came out that the whole Syriza caucus were gangbanging Betty every night while Alexis was reading the kids their bedtime story, I wouldn't raise an eyebrow.
Whether a Greek haircut deal is agreed or not, the Greek people must without any Ifs and Buts "impose control over their political elites to ensure that reckless levels of debt can never happen again."
Balanced budgets by law must be the order of the day.
This is not optional and cannot be delayed.
They should have learned by now that Greek political elites cannot be trusted left in charge of the nation's finances.
The law would have to stipulate who would enforce and on whom, how it is funded, who hires the enforcer.
Presumably members of Parliament pass the budget and pay the bills... so you have a Bailiff and a Sergeant of Arms for the Parliament would they take members to home arrest or would the prime minister be required to close sessions of parliament and all government offices till a committee balances the budget.
Maybe they would still use a Continuing Resolution till a balanced budget is obtained... they are Lawyers after all.
Greeks have a sloppy reputation in the USA. Maybe they would not fund, staff, grant access, or facilities or offices for the Bailiff... to prevent the law from being enforced.
Reduced budgets too.
A whole island pretending to be blind to get benefits, 8,500 pensioners who faked being aged over 100 and lawyers who claim to earn just €12,000: New book reveals how Greeks cheated THEMSELVES into ruin.
According to official records, just over 300 homes in Athens' most exclusive neighbourhood had swimming pools, and had paid the resulting tax for such a luxury. But when the government decided to have a look on Google Earth, it became clear these residents hadn't been totally honest. The real figure for swimming pools in the area is believed to be closer to 20,000.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148451/A-island-pretending-blin...
I'm not sure how many ZHers would pay a Window Tax or a Swimming Pool Tax either.
I don't think we have a Wealth Tax in the USA.
If the Greeks vote yes, I'm not gonna squander one more second of time reading Greece stories on the Hedge
Anyone claiming to know which vote will lead to the best outcome (including the Greeks) is a liar, a fool or both.
Yanis says a secrete deal has been offered. Troika capitulating completely to save their own lying ass jobs.
http://www.businessinsider.com/yanis-varoufakis-says-he-has-a-deal-he-ca...
Sounds more like a choice between the young and old. They'll all get fk'd, one group more than the other, regardless of choice.
Hey Tsipras! Have a clue. Take a lesson.
http://www.naturalnews.com/050279_Iceland_bankster_criminals_democracy.h...
The "YES" supporters are using their tame media to spread fear and more fear. The pro EU business and financial communities are using propaganda outlets all across Greece to really lay it on thick. Much like the BCC, SKY and others lied about the Scotland Independence vote. A whole slew of lies and threats came through every media channel. Old people got scared, and they alone blew the election for freedom. Now in Greece we see a similar thing, attempting to spread fear in the elderly. Elderly are easily scared and manipulated by the higher powers, and in Greece they are being targeted as the group to push YES over the top.
But really, a YES or a NO, it means nothing as regards the unpayable debt. It is now in the open that this debt can never be paid, but it can be extended and that is the goal of the Troika. Extend for 20-30 years and forget about it, just keep the EU project going, keep Greece in NATO, and keep pipelines and cheap Russian gas out of Greece.
Slavery is immoral.
Hey, speaking of slavery, I was reading an AP article on Greek supermarkets or some such thing and they have a chain called "Sklavenitis" over there.
Since "sklaven" is German for slave as I recall (and so too is Slav a bastardized form of the word), this means they have a supermarket chain named "Slave Disease".
Well, sort of.
The IMF is still going on about debt relief, not debt forgiveness/write-off. The IMF is US (& therefore Goldman) controlled - despite sounding like an "International organization", it can't do a damned thing with the massive voting power of the US in place. It's interesting that the IMF is asking the EU for a haircut on the Greek debt, yet says nothing about the Greek debt on its books other than claiming the Greek default is in "Arrears".
The only sustainable solution is for both creditor blocks to give very long term debt relief (No interest, no payments for 30 years or more) on a considerable portion (50%+) of Greek debt. That is in effect what everyone (Including Syriza and the Greek people) want - the ability to live with overall control over their own economy and fiscal policies AND have a chance at digging themselves out of debt within the EZ. It's still kicking the can essentially, without the ECB breathing down their necks every five minutes.
The other solution is to fuck them all, default and go back to the drachma. Thus initiating the collapse of the financial system and its tsunami of derivatives. This is declaring bankrupcy, asset seizures, high interest rate borrowing, and devaluation - it will no doubt be extremely painful for the Greeks in the short-medium term, but at least they get to be FREE and have a chance to grow.
The IMF obviously wants to keep Greek debt on its books forever while urging the ECB/Germany to take the brunt of the bailout deal. A lot of enmity has been focused on Germany/ECB for trying to get the Greeks to comply to the fiscal agreements they signed when they joined the EZ, but the real predator is the IMF in my view. Standing in the wings and pulling strings to keep Greek debt slaves on its books for eternity.
Who can imagine a NO majority on Sunday; hands up. I wish but doubt.
Wait, the IMF only has $91 billion loaned out? That's nothing. Must be the credit default swaps that get blown up.
Why will many Greeks vote Yes on Sunday:
You know the old guy in The Shawshank Redemption who finally is released from prison after being in there his entire lifetime ends up committing suicide because he can't adjust to his newly found freedom?
It's like that.
Exactly the same thing happened in the Scottish vote for independence.
Faced with the stark choice of independence or dependency, they chose the latter.
When do the Greek CDS trigger? Or are we still pretending that no "credit event" has happened yet?
Do you smell that?... Debt, son, nothing else in the world smells like that...
How many more "democratic" opportunities will Greek citizens have to vote for liberation from the tentacles of the ECB and ECU to regain their own national dependence? Not many, if any, I'm afraid!
Never bring a dilemma to the Greeks. They've been philosophizing about it since, oh about 3000 years.
What difference does the current debt and interest due even make?
When was the last time Greece actually paid any of the principal or interest - by pay I don't mean roll over into a new loan - I mean pay it with tax revenue that didn't cause additional borrowing.
So even if the whole debt is written off - Greece is still not going to be able to pay the pensions or public employees salaries unless they can borrow the money to do it.
So write it off so they can start borrowing again and in 5 or 10 years they will be right back where they are now - with debt up to their ass and no way to pay it back.
This is true NO MATTER what the vote is - because nothing I have heard does anything to get this country on track to be self sustaining.
http://www.ft.com/home/europe
‘Haircut’ of 30% considered on customers’ funds above €8,000(Target for tonight...)
already proven to be a LIE by FT to get people to yote YES
Here's what the vote comes down to - Last week the EU took all your money away and made your life miserable. Do you want SOME of your money and your life back to normal - Yes or No?
REPLACE SOME with NONE
Read my lips, "Know new taxes".
Tis better to go to bed hungry, than to wake up in debt.
Put down the grape leaves, and back away from the table.
Greece, follow Iceland's example! Be independent. You'll soon be on the mend.
i ussually laughed about greece,because i never believed that this country will ever confront the very
systemic heart of financial world.with all the respect,my opinion values litle more than yours (with all the respect) because im really into borrowing money ind to nations through gvt bonds.
Greece is not something to worry,what is the eal headeach is Italy,and Italy is looking in to our eyes so sensitive to illness,as is a nurse who is treating an ebola victim,in the ambient of a sierra leone hospital.
all the rest is blahblahblah
i hope the God of money to brought peace in the mind of this punk (tsipiras) for the well being of all.
Here's a small piece of news that UK.gov slipped through today:
"BBC-UK.Gov reduces bank bankruptcy compensation by 10k"
Hitherto, if a British bank goes belly up the government funded compensation scheme known as "Deposit Protection" was UKP85,000.
It was quietly announced today that from Jan-2016 this will be reduced by UKP10,000 down to UKP75,000.
They wanted to make it proportional to what depositors would get in Ecuador or Argentina.
Yep. Noticed that during the week. Inline with the rise in the probability of a banking sector collapse.
Spot on (!)
....
.
In Russia they get "propaganda". In America we get "the news".
In Greece they get "SYRIZA". In America we get the toothless, spineless "TEA PARTY".
Show me a Teabagger and I will show you an uneducated, ignorant Koch brainwashed fool. How can they claim to be “American Patriot” yet hate American democracy and American independent heritage? Ha. Ha. Ha.
Do tell us what institution of higher learning you attended.
Many thanks.
Google or Wiki Yale- youll find it if you keep at it....
How do you shut up a Koch brainwashed Teabagger? You ask them that if they hate American democracy so much, what form of government are they striving for? Ha. Ha. Ha. They are dumbfounded and can’t answer. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Teabaggers are despicable cowards and liars. Rarely, will any one of them be able to string two correct sentences together at a 5th. Grade level. Why are they at such a low standard? You learn to write by reading a lot and they are ignorant because they don’t read and can hardly write. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Honest debate and rebuttal is beyond them, like shitgumsuicide and teamdepend, they start their faggot screaming and name calling instead of presenting a rebuttal.
Happy 4th of July celebrating our American Independence (sovereignty gone) and our American democracy (overthrown by fascist government of, for and by multinational corporate monopoly). The only un-American people celebrating our lost democracy today are low life Teabaggers and other fascist.
Thank god I'm one of the ignorant fools you speak of.
Otherwise, I might, like you, have been "educated" into believing that the Great Republic was actually a democracy.
God forbid we should ever sink so low as to live up to the goal you've set for us.
Your statement “I might, like you, have been "educated" into believing that the Great Republic was actually a democracy”.
You have me baffled there? The Teabaggers that post here hate democracy. You are agreeing with me in the defense of democracy. You will be the first Teabagger that I have talked to that didn’t hate democracy; it’s a part of their brainwashed mantra.
We Americans had lived in a Constitutional Representative Republic which is defined as a democracy FORM of government “government, of, for and by the People”.
We Americans now live in a fascist FORM of government: “government of, for and by the multinational corporate monopoly”.
you really had no good reason to come out and tell us-its been obvious for a long while...lol
Greece is in a severe Crisis now. Not sure the definition of a Depression or if that matters. GDP has Collapsed, Banks are Closed, Businesses are Closed, Businesses won't trust each other for Credit, Protests & Riots cause more business losses, Purchase power has been lost, maybe 30% of Businesses of the small and medium size in central Athens are Closed.
Banks don't want to admit in the Great Depression, they had to write off Debt even if they did pick up assets in foreclosures and collateral for loans.
Everyone wants to control the narrative in the Media, but don't see a lot of concern for the humanitarian crisis that it is.
Here is another that fits in the "We can't avoid the truth" category. This popped up, but few real links on kidnapping whites and selling as bonded slaves in the USA looks like Caribbean might have more.
Slavery in Spain (Wikipedia) (section Christian slavery in Spain)
"Slavery in Spain can be traced to the times of the Greeks, Phoenicians and Romans. In the 800s the Muslim Moorish rulers and local Jewish merchants traded in Spanish and Eastern European Christian slaves. Christian Spain began to trade slaves in the 1400s and this trade reached its peak in the 16th century. The history of Spanish slavery began with Portuguese captains Antão Gonçalves and Nuno Tristão in 1441. The first large group of African slaves, made up of 235 slaves, came with Lançarote de Freitas three years later.[1] In 1462, Portuguese slave traders began to operate in Seville, Spain. During the 1470s, Spanish merchants began to trade large numbers of slaves. Slaves were auctioned at market at a Cathedral, and subsequently were transported to cities all over Imperial Spain. This led to the spread of Moorish, African, and Christian slavery in Spain. By the 16th century, 7.4 percent of the population in Seville, Spain were slaves. Many historians have concluded that Renaissance and early-modern Spain had the highest amount of African slaves in Europe.[2]"
"The slaves were exported from the Christian section of Spain, as well as Eastern Europe by Jewish slave traders, sparking significant reaction from many in Christian Spain and many Christians still living in Muslim Spain."
- Seems the practice originated or was common in Rome & Greece, and Vikings sold Thralls in Byzantium (White Slaves).
- Guess if you dehumanize people you can go to war against them, or impose rule on them if they are in debt. Sovereignty & Humanity is just taken away from them... in this case a member state.
But if it will crash the Euro or EU Economy, then yes they will conduct orderly debt write offs...
- White slavery, historically refer to the enslavement of Europeans by non-Europeans, as part of the Arab, Barbary and Ottoman slave trade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repartimiento
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corv%C3%A9e (Corvée, or statute labour, called oldest Tax system)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage (part of Slavery series, Debt bondage can be passed on from generation to generation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_indenture_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Spanish_New_World_colonies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbirding
TMI. Poour the Ouzo, Break dishes, dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6K7OC-IKnA
Confession I have danced like that, but unfortunately it was in USA.
I found the Crowd was very political. Might as well been Red Necks that didn't want to dance. But they were a mixed group in a city center from Balkans and Americans who had traveled.
Fuck it.
People don't like me to try to dance if I look at the Women or whatever... screw them.
Green arrow - No vote
Red arrow -yes vote
My vote tallied red. Have zero hope in the Greek people's willingness togo into the short term void for long term gain
It has to be Oxi. It just has to be. If the Greeks vote yes in the referendum, they will have scuppered all chances of a potential record breaking debt forgiveness deal with the troika AND also the chance of getting completely out of the euro. A yes vote is the dumbest thing they could possibly do, so not outside the boundary of possible outcomes. :).
This isn't just about Greece, but about every country that is over-indebted...which pretty much encompasses the entire western world & a few emerging market countries as well.
And those who think their country can kick the can forward indefinitely & never have to face & deal with the real issue of living beyond your means, like Greece may finally be facing now, you need a reality check.
Most in the west are smug, self-righteous ingrates who feel they are owed/entitled to their standard of living, completely ignorant of the debt their government has piled up in their name & for their "benefit" and the complete financial mismanagement virtually every government has undertaken since the financial crisis erupted 8 years ago (but which really had its roots long before then).
There is an adjustment coming, particularly to North America, with the $US losing it status as the world reserve currency & all the benefits that brings (including an end to delusional US exceptionalism).
There is a reason why police forces across the US have become increasingly militarized and why mass surveillance of everyone & eveything isn't going to end but likely increase...
Things are getting ugly & will only get uglier, financially, economically & socially/politically.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/07/adl-poll-85-of-greeks-believe-jews-...
In other shocking news, water found to be wet
It all depends whos doing the counting ......
Greece sets out for A new adventure on the Loan Boat. All sing along folks! ... Loan, exciting and new! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSFb3ItC2QA
IMF & ECB Boots – These Boots Are Made for Walkin’ and that's just what they'll do. One of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww
Something stinks.
This referendum should have been called a long time ago.
with only a week warning, the TROIKA cannot pull any real tricks, or probably even get any ads on TV!
Bravo!! Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras. You are a democratic (government of, for and by the People) statesman of the highest order in Greek civilized tradition; Aristotle would be proud of you for calling for a referendum.
The fate of Greece is the fate of the USA and all other nations under the octopus of central bankster criminal debt, fraud and chaos.
Criminal activity must be framed as criminal activity and therefore the solution has to be framed in how do we break the criminal stronghold and bring the criminals to Justice for their conspirator criminal activity and repudiating the criminal debt.
We should be examining how to prosecution the central bankster fascist (merger of multinational corporate monopoly with government) criminal cabal and review professors Black, Chossudovsky, Hudson and researchers Gavin Marshall and Nomi Prins research into the criminal cabal activities.
I am a 71 year old student that has been following the maneuvers of the American bankster fascist most of my life. The EU was designed, financed and implemented by the criminal banksters and their shadow government of the Council on Foreign Relations. The banksters CFR activities are well documented over the last 60 odd years in plotting Treason against the USA and implementing the fascist New World Order. Selling debt as wealth is their weapon.
Do gold bugs really believe that the central criminal banksters are going to lose control of the gold market in the USA? Today, the currency is fiat but the BRICS gold backed currency of tomorrow will set a new gold standard. The bankster criminals stole all the USA gold when we went off the Gold Standard. The criminals’ loot, pillage, burn bridges and destroy as they move forward so that there is no way back. When the bankster criminals need gold, Emperor Obama via decree, will confiscate the gold in your teeth.
In my opinion, it will take a violent revolution to bring the fascist bankster criminals to Justice, until then, we are all victims.
Vote for Golden Dawn and save your people, land, and heritage, i.e. your NATION.
well, it was a double post. One for each way.
Classic case of people wanting it both ways.
Everything else in the world is FIXED - do you think they forgot about voting? Hell, even Dr. Evil wouldn't have overlooked THAT....
"Dr. Evil, Did you forget about fixing VOTING?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSI1QsIo8g
based on what i have seen from greece there is zero chance of a no vote . just my take
I have been disappointed too often sincce the Greenspan Recession and Obama's Trojan Horse Neocolonial presidency to have real hope anymore
But
Please vote no to give the world hope that someone finally stands up to the Ziovampires
Political parties, bankers, and government officials have used up several years trying to figure this out...and now we give the Greek voters one week to figure out what direction to go. I think they should be given some options on the ballot..such as..
No...Yes...Maybe...
"No" means a lot of pain now and recovery later.
"Yes" means less pain now but no recovery ever.
-----------------------------------------
!!! The usual fraud of false alternatives !!!
step 1: Declare 100% default on all debts.
step 2: Declare government debt OFF LIMITS FOREVER.
-----
Yes... be responsible.
To borrow money that others must pay back is flat-out grossly obscene. How an atrocity of this magnitude ever became seen as "acceptable" is something to ponder.
To steal money from prudent, frugal savers to pay the debts of imprudent, irresponsible, spendthrift losers is light-years beyond grossly obscene.
The appropriate action for Greece is to UTTERLY REJECT DEBT... including all past debt, and all future debt.
Greece Solution: NO DEBT PERIOD.
World Solution: NO DEBT PERIOD.
Your Solution: NO DEBT PERIOD.
Plan # 1
Get a rope
Plan # 2
Find Blankfine & Dimon
Plan # 3
Find the rest of the banksters & politicians
Plan # 3
Hang the bitches!
Greece suffers a democracy deficit. Since gaining independence in 1830, Greece has alternated between democracies with huge deficits, and military dictatorships with balanced budgets.
When it can borrow no more from the EU, Greece will be taken over by a military junta, which will proceed to purge government, academia, and the media of their free-lunch mentality.
Vote NO, save us, you stupid mother-fuckers
Greece referendum summed up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY-zmJ1VCQI
The absolute biggest problems in the world is $ and those that control it.
I'm running for President at GoFundMe. Joseph Maloy
Stop the madness.
The Truth About Greece: Syriza’s Creatively Ambiguous Referendum @ http://99getsmart.com/the-truth-about-greece-syrizas-creatively-ambiguou...
The problem is that Greece sees the EU as a free money spewing ATM.
I get OXI and NAI mixed up. NAI is too close to NO.
I would vote No. I actually don't see an alternative.
The ECB and the IMF have been pumping funds into the European banking system trough Greece since the crisis in 08 to keep the illusion of stability in the European financial system.
This has cost Greece enormous amounts of money and taken away the opportunity of reorganizing their financial system in the crash as they should have.
The current state of the Greek economy is the offspring of poor choices made by those who have been calling the shots, and its quite clear to any thinking person who have been in the lead from the start of this crisis.
Except that Tsipias has no desire to "reorganize their financial system". The reason they defaulted is that he refused to make any cuts to spending, salaries or pensions.
I don't think more cuts in pensions and salaries would help. This austerity policy has been a disaster.
Sunday Bloody Sunday
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LQZLPV6xcHI
The parallel between credit 'money' & drugs is stark.
Greek people must decide if they want to get clean.
Cold turkey will be painfull.
They are voting on whther or not they can resist the temptation of the banking pushers.
This should be interesting. Athens received its name from Athena, the Goddess of Wisdom after they rejected the gold promised to them by Zeus. They decided with Athena they could better control their destinty. It's an interesting fable whose moral is that knowledge can never be taken from you.
Let's see if the modern Greeks are as smart as the old greeks.
http://www.greeka.com/attica/athens/athens-myths/athens-name-giving.htm
ECB plans to starve them to take on a new unpayable loan. Shutdown of ATM and pensions is called extortion.
Sniper calling pays good money. Corruption ends with a bullet. If the cops, DOJ, and other alphabet agencies are involved. It will become egg on your face. Kiss your pension goodbye.
It has long been recognized in many nations that an individual overcome with debt which is impossible to pay or service without starving to death in attempting to do so is legally allowed to declare bankruptcy, start over with a clean slate.
Countries should have the same priviledge as there will be people who had nothing to do with the debt starving in the attempt to repay or service the debt.
I am not liking the beaurocrats in Europe. They just kow tow to their master, which is either Satan or the USA, I am not sure which.
A world debt jubilee is in order with controls put in place that no one should be allowed to borrow when the ability to repay is simply not there. This current situation is the mistake of creditors, that is why they call lending a risky business. Wait till North America gets a call from the collection agency, it won't be pretty.
In your example of bankruptsy, you forgot to mention that the banks will also CONFISCATE everything of value you have remaining.
Austerity is good for you !
you needet to lose some weight anyway, since constipation has clouded your mindset.
come Monday, Tsipras and Varoufakis get no more welfare payments,
those two liars could end up in Jail for what they did to the Greek people.
well, it's gonna be interesting.
stupid national-socialist fascist fucks ,
crawl back in that hole you came out from.
No = No more welfare handouts for you !
WR;)
Mr. Greek nation.."seek and ye shall find..vote for independence from the suffocating grip of the European union ( I mean ruin). Today the US celebrates our "indepence day"...vote for yours tomorrow.
Happy 4th of July celebrating our American Independence (sovereignty gone) and our American democracy (overthrown by fascist government of, for and by multinational corporate monopoly). The only un-American people celebrating our lost democracy today are low life Teabaggers and other fascist.
What difference does it make?
Vote No, instant government collapse for lacking fund....result: pension cut over the board of 40% or more, deposit bail-in hair cut of 30% or more
Vote Yes, slow motion government collapse for austerity imposed by lenders...result: pension cut over the board of 40% or more, deposit bail-in hair cut of 30% or more
The only difference is politicians out of hook...See, it is the people's decision. But, head, greek people lose, tail, greek people lose. Oh, wait, all greek people did enjoy the benefit of profligate government spending. Maybe greek people deserve it. Only those unborn greek people have the sympathy of innocence.