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Paul Craig Roberts: Sunday's Vote Will Determine Liberty Or Serfdom
Authored by Paul Craig Roberts,
According to history books, democracy originated in Greece. Of course, historians could be mistaken, but this is the prevailing view among Western populations with enough awareness to be interested to know.
What we are witnessing today, July 2, 2015, is that after 2,500 years in the Western World only the current Greek government is interested in democracy. The Greek government, to the surprise and consternation of every other European government, has called a referendum for the Greek people to decide the fate of Greece. For resorting to democracy, the Greek government has been universally denounced in the Western World.
So much for Western democracy.
The greatest and most successful propaganda scam in history is the one that convinces the world that they are nobody if they are not part of The West: the indispensable peoples, the exceptional peoples. If you are not part of The West you are nobody, nonexistent, a nothing.
This prevailing propaganda might prevail in Greece on Sunday, in which case a fearful and intimidated Greek population might vote against the only government that, instead of accepting a payoff from Greece’s enemies, fought for the welfare of the Greek people.
If the Greeks vote for their oppressors and against their own government, democracy in the EU will cease to exist.
2,500 years ago Greeks saved their independence from the Persian Empire. Sunday’s vote will tell us whether Greeks have again served liberty or whether they have succumbed to Washington’s Empire.
The fate of all Europeans and of Americans themselves will be settled on Sunday.
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No one can tell me what a "yes" or "no" vote even means. No one has a fucking clue about anything surrounding this vote other then it's a vote on "something".
yes means Troika decides the terms of surrender
no means fuck you Troika
Serf's up dudes!
Time to walk like an Icelander.
This just in!
Caitlyn Clinton, formerly known as the Kardashian Olympic Super-dude, has had a change of heart. Now, she self-identifies as a Chinese-Russian-American daughter of Chelsea’s infant child.
The Clintons have cheerfully welcomed the new member of their clan and made Caitlyn the official scapegoat of the Clinton Global Initiative Foundation.
Senators McCain and Graham exchanged rings in a very simple taxpayer-subsidized-Supreme-Court-same-sex-marriage-ceremony administered by the freshly exhumed corpse of the Chief Justice, William Rehnquist. ;-)
Looney
LMAO!
Where do you get this shit!?
Officiated is better than 'administered' IMHO.
just sayin'
paul roberts, just another flame thrower provided by the elites.
sorry, greeks, but no matter how you vote, you will still be mired in serfdom. As long as you keep electing socialist liars to rule over you, you will be serfs. there is simply not enough money in your country for you to recieve everything the govt has promised you, same as the US. Your socialist govt will still have to constantly borrow money to try to overcome this shortfall, and you and your children and generations not yet born will be in debt serfdom forever by having to pay interest on this debt. I suppose it would be better to be serfs to a group of rulers you elect rather than the bankers of the ECB, but personaly Id prefer not to be ruled over at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71n3PtdQWF4
"The greatest and most successful propaganda scam in history is the one that convinces the world that they are nobody if they are not part of The West: the indispensable peoples, the exceptional peoples. If you are not part of The West you are nobody, nonexistent, a nothing."
It's sentences like this that keep me coming back to "alternative media". This is very insightful, and it must end. Fortunately, it is ending. Unfortunately, that process is not and will not be pretty.
Exactly. Someone on ZH the other day put it brilliantly: A Yes vote means the Troika and some Goldman Sachs technocrat fucks the Greeks in Euros. A No vote means a new Greek government and some Goldman technocrat fuck the Greeks in Drachma.
Dr. Roberts has lost his marbles lately. Democracy is not even the issue. Physics is. Greeks import 90%+ of their food, medicine and energy. This is just the reality and the financial aspects are just a canard.
The Greeks just get to choose on Sunday how they want to suffer. We're all sad about it but that's it. You cannot vote to repeal the Laws of thermodynamics.
Greece has oil and gas off of Greece. They need to thorw their lot with Russia. They got F'ed over in WW2 by the same people running the EU. Not Germans but the bankster families who control the Germans and the EU.
"the bankster families who control the Germans and the EU."
I have always had a thing about efficiency. Just a habit I guess? Seems to me that if you exterminate "the bankster families who control the Germans and the EU." things will improve much more quickly than this current endless Kabuki with the probable multi year wars will allow for????
What is the incentive of Russia, a major gas producer, to invest in extracting Greek gas, when Russia is investing heavily in building a very expensive pipeline, to corner the EU market with Russia's own gas, so that it can pay off and maintain its own new pipeline?
The only party likely to help Greece here, is in fact the EU, i.e. so that the EU can diversify their supply options, to not get screwed or held ransom, on price, or for geopolitical leverage, by Russia.
However, what energy development investors and companies have a very strong aversion to are high levels of sovereign risk, and unresolved territorial claims and disputes.
Which for Greece, could be a bit of a snag.
Russia could ship gas into EU through Greece. The transit would bring about 400 million $ each year for the Greek gov. Bulgarians were dumb enough to give up such a freebie just because we, the Americans, told them so. EU is dead and on its way of rotting... euro killed it a long time ago. Greece is just the first in a long list of intractably bankrupt European countries, which will have no choice but to follow the Greek example in restructuring their debts. At some point the Germans will figure out that they'll have to "help" the French. Hopefully (for the sake of the common German) the whole scam will fall apart long before that.
400 million per year? You realize they'll burn through that in about 4 days?
Then they'll siphon off the gas and sell it on the black market.
It is one of the most corrupt countries around, you realize? They spent a half century not paying their bills for a reason.
A better transit option than Ukraine? Yeah, we'll see. :D
Sovereign risk my friend, a sane investor would steer well clear.
If that were the case, why is Russia investing a fortune to pipe in and sell gas to them, if they can't afford to pay for it, as their economies and industries will be allegedly 'dead', and therefore won't be needing it?
Try making sense. It's a big ask, I know, but give it a go.
You tend to take yourself too seriously. 400 millions per year and do nothing for it ? I'll take it any time... The Russians did business with EU long before the Euro, and will keep doing long after its demise. They sell their stuff to whomever can pay, and it has nothing to do with the currency involved. They use said currency just as a tool for exchanging goods, not as a store of value (for all I know they could buy gold with euros, for that particular purpose). You might have a better chance to see the real world for what it is, once you'll pull your head out of your ass...
400 million is absolute chicken feed!
IT IS NOT A FUCKING NATIONAL RESCUE PROJECT!
At best it would be a project that provides some national pocket-change and some jobs. Yes, that's welcome, if you can get it, but you won't be using my money, nor anyone with a brain, to pay for it, and take the associated risks.
The problem with dippy fools like you is that you want to believe Russia is a shining white knight, with such capacities to save Greece. Utter bullshit!
And let me give you a much needed eye-opener as to what Europe and Europe's biggest Ally and its TPTB and military elite think of Russia right now (and also will regard anyone making best-buds with them).
And don't go thinking Greece will be making any friends via sucking up to Russia, like a financial and geopolitical slut and traitor to all who have been paying their bills and debts for them. The Nordic and Baltic states, and most of Eastern Europe will be hating Greece's guts right now, and will be vary happy to supply some payback for their geopolitical shit stirring and traitorous behavior, toward them, their supposed regional strategic military and diplomatic Allies.
I guarantee you, Greece is going to wish they'd never done that, it will not be forgotten for a long time.
Here's what's going on over the Baltic in recent days:
You think anyone in Eastern Europe is going to be well-disposed towards Greece after sucking up to Putin? Wrong! Greece has blown its diplomatic and military foot off! They have burned all bridges, and Eastern Europe is not going to forget them encouraging Putin and undermining their physical and State security, and one way or another they will make Greece pay for that. And the more Greece's Govt sucks up to Putin, the sooner they'll rip into Greece.
The Slow Mobilization Toward War With Putin
By Stephen Blank July 3, 2015
The Baltic Balance: How to Reduce the Chances of War in Europe
by Christopher S. Chivvis July 1, 2015.
4-star on Russia: The threat that has my greatest focus
Michelle Tan, Staff writer June 26, 2015
Wake up fool, Greece is going back to donkey carts, living on its actual real-economy income, and real tax-base, and actual Govt spending power, and no one is going to be able to help it, and not one is going to be able to rescue it and turn it into paradise, and anyone who tries and thus tries to also undermine EU security, will discover the EU and NATO will be coming for them, aggressively. And that especially includes Russia, or China.
I thought it was more that:
Yes vote = NY branch of Goldman gets all of Greece.
No vote = HK branch of Goldman gets all of Greece.
In the end, the vote will go the way the banksters want the world to progress. If we're keeping the London-NY marriage the vote will be yes. If London and NYC are getting a divorce in our near future, we'll get a no vote.
Withdrawn. Misread your comment.
There's more to it than that. It has to do with the Domino Effect:
A. Stay, Obey and Pay (Poverty by Decree),
or...
B. Stand and be Free (Success or Failure by Choice).
Note that in this scenario, they have the opportunity to rebuild (debt-free), when they shed the financial burden of the Odious Debt, and that of the early retirees: if they live longer, you just raise the retirement age to 60 or 65.
p.s. I know of one such case, where this 90 y.o. couple retired at age 55, after having ' worked' for the government for 30 years (grade school teacher and civil servant). At the time of their retirement, actuarial stats expected them to live to 70. But these two fuckers just refuse to croak, and have been living off the taxpayers longer than they have contributed. And even then, their 30 contribution was as a Civil Servant, i.e. off the taxpayer. Their neighbors (who don't like them or their Entitled attitude) actually wish that they "Just die already!". They laughed when I told them about the Steve Martin line "Die, you gravy-sucking pig!"
"Dr. Roberts has lost his marbles lately."
Yes, let's all go with anonymous blogger "Captain Willard," 'cause he's puttin' it all on the line. /s
Speaking of physics, the difference between Euro and Drachma is distance. I'd go with local. If the Greeks have to adjust their lives based on import requirements then they'll adjust as a necessity.
"If the Greeks have to adjust their lives based on import requirements then they'll adjust as a necessity."
Easy to say. Maybe not so easy to do.
I agree with you; I'm in favor of small. local government and self-determination. But self-determination implies the need for some kind of energy balance. You get to consume more or less what you produce. The Greeks are learning this the hard way. Distance has nothing to do with it, nor does the name of the money.
As a kid, I worked for Greeks who had fled the dictatorship of the Colonels and opened a thriving restaurant. They're still my friends and they told scary stories of those days. I guess I fear that a Greece in chaos will bring back the Colonels or worse.
Understand. Thanks for thoughtful reply.
You're quite mistaken to judge PCR in this way.
Back when university degrees were hard-won disciplines, Paul Craig Roberts was an outstanding, and adroit student. His life's accomplishments in the field of economics is a pedigree we can only NOW envy.
I've been reading his newsletters for the better part of two years, and most all of his assertions about today's economics are applauded by highly educated friends in Europe.
Let's thank both PCR, much of what David Stockman writes, Dr. Joseph Stiglitz and ZEROHEDGE who without these folks, our understandings of the financial matters would be splintered and narrow-minded.
"You cannot vote to repeal the Laws of Thermodynamics. "
Sure you can, that's what man made global warming, man made climate change, man made climate disruption is, a repeal of the laws of thermo....
Yeah, but that's just silly talk used to squeeze money out of your pocket (the word scam come to mind). It doesn't actually have anything to do with Thermodynamics...
Whether "yes" or "no", Nemesis will be riding roughshod over Greece. If they knew their classics they wouldn't be here, but probably that's all Greek to them. You know, ancient history.
Except in this scenario you forget a key reality. It was the implementation of the Euro and all the economic rules that came with it, that led to that percentage of importation being that high. Under the Euro, it destroyed their self-sufficiency, through insane rules and through the Euro carrot that was dangled in front of them. Of course there were problems before the Euro, but the Euro has made everything worse. They need the leeway to get that back, and they simply won't get it in the Euro.
No one is saying it is easy, but they can reclaim much of what they lost, but only outside the Euro. What they have lost, is not gone forever, if they have the drachma.
With a return to the drachma, this would give them the ability to start producing the food and goods they used to but were barred by Euro idiocy. This is a situation occurring in many, if not all the countries in the Euro. Industries that were part of their culture for millennia were shuttered on cue from Brussels.
Of course it will be painful, and of course they will need to import goods that under a drachma will rise in price, at the same time, a weaker currency will help other sectors. Their pain has been the core's gain. To the core, they have an artificially weaker currency then they should and the periphery, they have an artificially stronger currency. So even with what industries Brussels let them keep (at least for now), they were still harmed by the Euro itself.
They lost jobs because of the Euro, and with a return to the drachma and having a control over their own affairs, they will be able to restart what they lost when free of insane Euro rules that limited production in various goods.
So while pain will happen either way, the only way for the Greeks to be in a system where they have the best chance to be as self-sufficient as they can be in their current state coupled with culture, based on the ways they have known for millennia, is with the drachma, and with control over their own affairs that is impossible under the Euro.
It's not thermodynamics, it's imperialism. Societies under the thumb of imperialism face insane rules that strip away their power to provide for themselves.
As with any market, people will take a chance on Greece with the drachma. Some will win, and some will lose, some will win and lose.
Will Goldman pull strings in the drachma? Them and others sure will try, and in many ways they might succeed, but the damage they can do when Greece determines its own fate, limits the scale of looting the squids can do. It limits their power, because while right now Goldman can leverage Greece against the rules of the EU to loot them, they will lose that when Greeks can control their own affairs.
On top of this they can be a potential catalyst of bringing down this entire fucktard shitshow going on around the world, and once that happens, the power of the looters worldwide will decrease, and that will help billions, and be a later positive knock on effect onto Greece as well.
That is of course, if we can survive world-wide bail in's, revolutions, potential for nuclear war, etc, etc. People armed with facts and solutions and not mob mentality can get out of this alive, but they have to grab onto the correct path. Get Glass-Steagall implemented worldwide, and let the crap fail, while the deposits, and functional debt (i.e. based off of actual wealth producing assets) remain. Otherwise the looters will try to take ALL OF US down with them. Glass-Steagall separates the good from the bad and allows the collapse to be somewhat orderly and survivable because it's directed at the worthless crap of the looters.
So the Greeks have a decision to make. Have control over their affairs, and the ability to limit the looters, until such time as they are routed worldwide, or they continued to be cornered, looted, and stripped of their dignity until...well...forever.
You make a good point. Greek current account deficits indeed worsened after the euro was introduced. But Greece ran chronic trade deficits before Euro accession also. And the Drachma devaluation in 1983 didn't help at all really.
Maybe it would work this time, but I doubt it.
I'm not interested in assessing blame so much. I want the Greeks to succeed.
If I thought leaving the euro would help, I would be all in favor of it.
Yes. And lets also call for the executions of those responsible for the lobbying, voting, and benefits of Glass-Steagall. That would be a good deterrant for something like this happening again in the future...
Dr Roberts has kind of come off the rails recently. I have always enjoyed his insight in the past but recently something weird has happened to him.
As for Greece they confirmed today they have six months of oil reserves, 3 months of medicine and enough cash to buy food into the country for some time. Though they admitted the cash machines will likely run out on Monday.
How so? This is the third such comment without anything behind it. Roberts has stuck his neck out for years, he is a hero.
And he's rght about this: a yes vote = mewling before the power. A no vote tells the power 'NO' for once. The Troika shut down the banking system leading into the vote when they didn't have to do so, other options existed. And like in the US, all the banks' bad debts have been laundered and dunped on the taxpayers. THE TAXPAYERS need a dose of reality too. Finally, this tells the world, again, that governments cannot be trusted to borrow or manage debt. That is a victory. So yes, it's critical, and Roberts ia a tireless warrior. If you're going to deride our side back it up.
Hey I like the guy and I still read his stuff, but he is starting to scare the kids. His analysis is getting extreme, if he is right we are well and truly fucked.
Wiley, there's still time for you to get your head down some hole so you don't have to listen to what nad things are comin g your way.
There is still time for you to get off the booze so you can learn to fucking type.
BuyingSterling - Good commentary. I agree with all of it except for Dr. Roberts being "tireless". You should go to his blog and read his recent article on donations. Hereo's get tired. They can lose battles.
Our general American problem of correcting things is that:
1) Rugged individualism is our culture. What is needed is a network of sites as a network. I built one and it worked awsome for a bit. But good authors and patriots need to collaborate more and be more flexible with one another.
2) Because of #1 the divide and conquer worked too well. Our culture is atomized.
Step one is always building a communications platform. Investors I approached were scared shitless. Not all but most. Look at the ads running on ZH. I told Dr. Roberts donations alone wouldnt cut it. Even though many of us are disgusted by the Fascism some compromise with capital is required.
I emailed Dr. Roberts the other day and thanked him. Even if such can't stop corruption at this level they slow it down and plant seeds for eventual rebirth.
Translated Question for the greek referendum: “Should the plan of agreement be accepted, which was submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund in the Eurogroup of 25.06.2015 and comprises of two parts, which constitute their unfifed proposal? The first document is entitled ‘Reforms for the Completion of the Current Programme and Beyond’ and the second ‘Preliminary Debt Sustainability Analysis’.”
Translation of translation: "Should we accept the latest terms of the bailout from the troika?"
Since the latest terms of the bailout have been withdrawn by the troika, it is basically asking the Greek people whether to accept or reject an agreement proposal that no longer exists. However, one could view it as an outright question of yay or nay on the question of their debt servicing under conditions that infringe upon greek sovereignty to ensure generational debt enslavement.
The real question should be, "Do you want a better deal than the ones the troika have been peddling?" Because that is essentially what this is all about, isn't it? And they can probably get it too if the greeks understand how fragile it is to have the entire global financial system built on debt mountains and its crazy insurance deals.
It's easy: yes = markets prevail. No = human rights prevail
It's easy: yes = markets prevail. No = human rights prevail
Yes = monetary capitalism prevails.
No = tribalist forager cult of personality prevails.
You really believe your BS, ain't you ?
You didn't have to down vote me six times.
Once would have been enough.
I'm not that important.
I'm just an inconsequential little pissant who likes the free market.
Democracy is laid out in the Bible, when Moses was leading the Israelites in the desert. Exodus 18:
13
The next day Moses sat in judgment for the people, who waited about him from morning until evening.
14
When his father-in-law saw all that he was doing for the people, he inquired, "What sort of thing is this that you are doing for the people? Why do you sit alone while all the people have to stand about you from morning till evening?"
15
Moses answered his father-in-law, "The people come to me to consult God.
16
Whenever they have a disagreement, they come to me to have me settle the matter between them and make known to them God's decisions and regulations."
17
"You are not acting wisely," his father-in-law replied.
18
"You will surely wear yourself out, and not only yourself but also these people with you. The task is too heavy for you; you cannot do it alone.
19
Now, listen to me, and I will give you some advice, that God may be with you. Act as the people's representative before God, bringing to him whatever they have to say.
20
Enlighten them in regard to the decisions and regulations, showing them how they are to live and what they are to do.
21
But you should also look among all the people for able and God-fearing men, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain, and set them as officers over groups of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens.
22
Let these men render decisions for the people in all ordinary cases. More important cases they should refer to you, but all the lesser cases they can settle themselves. Thus, your burden will be lightened, since they will bear it with you.
23
If you do this, when God gives you orders you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied."
24
Moses followed the advice of his father-in-law and did all that he had suggested.
25
He picked out able men from all Israel and put them in charge of the people as officers over groups of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens.
26
They rendered decisions for the people in all ordinary cases. The more difficult cases they referred to Moses, but all the lesser cases they settled themselves.
trustworthy men?????
It seems more lke a court system, which is understandable since there was accord about the law - no one was looking to get everyone on Medicare. You had rules that were fixed and disputes that required judgment.
It's all 3.
GOD is President.
Moses (People's rep.) is the Congress
The system to be established, as Jethro advised (through GOD) are the courts.
oh, and by the way...who is counting those votes, ay???? hmmmmmmmmmmm????
yeah, thought so....
Those people are going to continue to get screwed 10 ways to Sunday no matter what the fuck they vote for.
Believe it!
Edit: And it's no fucking different for any of the rest of us. Just a slower process here, but we're all still going to get fucked real bad.
Prepare for everything you can and hope it's enough in some way to make it through the shit storm that's coming.
The vote is whether the last proposal submitted to the Greek government (which the IMF have confirmed is unsustainable) should be accepted or not. Of course, the corolloray is that if not accepted, Greece would leave the EU - and that may well be the outcome - but it is NOT what the question is.
strong words...
up to the greeks to save the world then...
somehow I doubt it
There's a warning this week that Saturday's Independence Day celebration may be the last to allow traditional cookouts or fireworks in many parts of the country.
Why?
Obama's EPA is moving toward socking America with a new dose of ozone/air quality restrictions.
The Daily Caller reports: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/02/president-obama-wants-to-end-independe...
Because the proposed ozone rule is set so low, things as harmless as a few backyard chefs grilling burgers in the same area at the same time, or even festive fireworks being launched during an Independence Day celebration, could cause an area to violate federal ozone standard thresholds. Such a violation of the EPA’s unreasonably low ozone limit would result in fines and other penalties for local governments from federal regulators.
If the Daily Caller report strikes you as alarmist, please understand it's not just outdoor holiday celebrations Obama and the EPA are putting at risk.
Business Roundtable notes: http://businessroundtable.org/resources/revised-national-ambient-air-qua...
Pursuant to court order, EPA proposed a new ozone NAAQS in December 2014 and intends to finalize the standard by October, 2015. EPA has proposed to set a standard within the range of 0.065-0.070 ppm, largely consistent with the recommendations of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee (0.060- 0.070 ppm) but it also has requested comments on maintaining the current 0.075 ppm standard and establishing a 0.060 standard. If adopted, ozone standards in the 0.060-0.070 range would place large sections of the country in non-attainment status, thus making it difficult or impossible to expand manufacturing in these areas. Standards in this range are close to background levels in many areas of the country and according to EPA, compliance increasingly would depend on technologies that have not yet been developed.
In the future, BBQing in your backyard warrants a drone strike. Enviroterrizz - you - are the leading cause of the world's problems. By eating this plastic food and following gubbamin orders like a good subject, we will help you stay safe!!@!! :-) :-) :-)
p.s. OR ELSE (but you knew that)
Ha ha! The drones better be armed. I'm not the only one planning to shoot anything in my 'Airspace' down.... Bring it!
Why should they stop now? Please notice that the EPA was created by Nixon (the crook and tool) who also opened relations with China. They want to offshore every last plant and this is part of their 40+ year long strategy. I've only met 2 people who agree with me on this. Both of them were school dropouts who had to work in plants that were later shutdown and/or offshored. Sad, but true. I can't even talk to the average Boobus Americanus about it. They truly, from the bottom our their pea picken hearts, think the EPA is there to protect them!!! The more edumatcated they are, the more brainwashed.
What?! You say it helps the Rockefeller's, and others, cut out competion? You're a nut, stay away from me and my children!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Nixon_visit_to_China
We've got a few options.
1. secession
2. convention of the states
3. rebellion
4. elect an executive on a 'contract' and he holds .gov hostage until the contract items are fulfilled.
These all suck for various reasons. How about a third party which focuses solely on overturning Obama's every signature becasue he's a dog-eating POS fraud with fake SS#, draft registration, and birth certificate? Anyone? I've got nothing. It looks like collapse and then reformation with 100+ million people who are utterly dependent on others for everything.
No it wont, the greeks can never pay pack the debt so voting as usual, never solves shit. Voting is an illusion. Hang the central fucking bankers and you will get your freedom.
Um. No.
You'll just end up being an impoverished tribalist forager, competing with all the other impoverished tribalist foragers looking for your next meal in the forest.
We've been there before. A lot of people got eaten.
Umm No. It is the tribe that is responsible for this global disaster.
the empire strikes back...we know how this ends, there will be no other outcome and its gonna be violent & messy...the good news is the tyrants will all be killed...this time they will all need to die, no quarter every drop of their wicked bloodlines needs to be spilled...rid the world of their presence
And, exactly how to you manage to kill all the cockroaches in the world?
Ummm, yes.
Tribalist foragers hunting in the forest for their next meal.
Maybe that next meal is you.
When the Chosenite banksters, the Chosenite media, and their political minions start fearing for their lives, and the lives of their family members things will change.....until then more of the same.
Did anyone notice how the bastards are backpedalling on the Confederate flag?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-sout...
They tried to create a stink over the flag to deflect from the fact that Roof said he went on a rampage due to the stink they created when they made Trayvon a saint. Now, they're trying to tamp down the HUGE backlash over the Confederate flag.
Also, the fact that the DoJ paid the church members $3.2 million a piece.
http://memoryholeblog.com/2015/06/22/obama-doj-in-29-million-charleston-...
In the above poll, the majority said;
"A majority favors removing the Confederate flag from government property that isn't part of a museum: 55% support that while 43% are opposed. And half support private companies choosing not to sell or manufacture items featuring the Confederate flag: 50% are in favor, 47% opposed."
Yet, they ran (as in running scared) with this headline; "Poll: Majority sees Confederate flag as Southern pride symbol, not racist"I'm willing to bet there was no poll.
I think it's worthwhile to note that this ranksacking of traditional culture six ways to Sunday in an effort to show it all offensive bears a striking resemblance to China's "cultural revolution."
I'm so fucking frightened....Your premise, is that if you don't go with Satan you know, that you will die. Fuck off and EAT ME.
Greece imports food. They have to pay for it. The quality of the imported food they consume is going to drop, maybe not to the levels common people in Egypt have to get by on, but a big drop there will be.
Bank accounts being held hostage for a week before the vote, tired asnd hungry Greeks will vote for a less painful short term. Too bad, they have a powerful hand.
The vote, no matter what, will not fix anything and neither the EU or Greece has an actual strategy or plan. Promises will be made and promptly broken since nobody, starting with the people themselves, wants to pay the price or do the heavy lifting required. I favor a no vote since it will speed the process up, though a yes vote will lead to a more spectacular collapse.....
They should have never agreed to have a vote.
They were elected to make such decisions.
This is leaderless and will be undermined, leading to a
Disaster for the Greeks.
Saying it was the peoples choice when you knew better is rudderless politics.
Prepare for a good old fashioned Monday morning ass fucking by the EU/Troika/USA Greece.
Lube or no lube?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Aren't most referendums non-binding?
Any vote is a vote for the system.
If my life has revealed anything to me, it's that man is an animal, not a god. Man cannot rule himself. Not for very long, without being corrupted by the power, and frittering it away.
You've just destroyed the mindset of the declaration of Independence.
You've just said it is totally irrelevant to the conduct of human affairs.
Well done! Your life has taught you that evolution is fast forward to land of Morlocks.
The Constitution was designed based on the fallibility of man, most pointedly to thwart the unquenchable, unlimited thirst for power of individuals and human institutions. We have long since thrown that out and now live under conditions of government and bureaucratic tyranny far more pervasive than what the colonists suffered.
yep, so don't tear it up in despair; thats my point to counter his despondency.
From what I know of the power elite, their goal is to consolidate power into one world government . So, They will not let the EU break up or Greece exit. It seems to me that the reason for all this Greek drama is to persuade the Greeks and others to stay in the union as serfs because the alternative is much worse.
Western democracy has fallen before only to rise again.
What US imperialism is now achieving is nothing different to Charles V 's Empire or that of Caesar's.
PCR having served Reagan--who played lead political front man for the Oligarchy-- is understandably squeamish, going hot under the collar; like a Hollywood director/actor who collaborated with McCarthyism and it bugs him to his dying day. It didn't bug Reagan so he was obviously immune to that ethical impulse of soul searching.
I can think of many iconic, talented men who were tainted with that brush : Elia Kazan and Sterling Hayden, to just name two (I refer to the brush of repentance for having been a collaborator of evil that haunts PCR not the absence of the brush to hush the immeasurable hubris of Reagan and the Bushes).
The smell of corruptive collusion with inquisitorial, repressive and vile despotism (whatever its disguise) is one that marks you to the end of your days.
McCarthy was right.
There is no doubt: only smears!
You’re right about Reagan.
I fully expect a Yes vote. Most people are masochistic sheep.
I'm in your boat - though what is really going on:
the older they (Greeks) get - the more shortsighted, short memoried, ignorant, cowards, sheeple, ... youth has not much to loose (as they have already lost everything) - (completely brainless idiotoc) pensioners though fear banks will be closed forever ... the slightest wind and they are wet in their pants and start whining ... so they sell the future of their kids and the youth for further sucking and asslicking of the EU criminals ...
So what .... young greek voters should find ways the keep the old sheep away from voting ... fill 'em up with Uso, or go for a picknick far away from where they can vote, give 'em something so they sleep well and for many hours, ... you know what I mean ?!!
!!! Fuck those dumb old Greek sheeple !!!
!!! Heads up for the youth of Greece which has to fight for their future - against their own stupid sheep selling their kids for soem 30 silver pennies !!!
Sounds very much like America in the not-too-distant future...
The younger generation is being strip-mined. Soon, they will have nothing to lose also. They are currently too distracted with their iGadgets to make a big fuss, but one more good crash and everyone's comfort level will drop precipitously. Then, and only then, they may get a little pissed off.
Meanwhile, the older generation is getting their Medicare, social security, and pensions. They will cling to the status quo to their dying breath.
The scales are soon to tip. We all know it.
Tick tock, tick tock....
Interesting observation ... is that a global phenoma ???
So what went wrong ???
That factories and production and part of services - where shipped to Asia/China/East????
Who's fault that is ???? Did anyone already ask that question?
And what comes further down the street?
Is Greece just one of the first dominos falling ... because the system (everything from the 99.99% towards the 0.01%) is rotten from the root? So in fact it's not about Greece - but about the underlying system???
Another french revolution for the West as a whole in coming decades????
I fully expect a Yes vote. Most people are masochistic sheep.
I disagree, I expect a yes vote because most people are stupid, unintelligent and gullible.
bingo
+1000
you won the holy grail.
BTW you forgot "ignorant".
Greece should sell all their military hardware to North Korea and use the proceeds to pay the gansters/troika.
US Product Safety Commission warns of dangerous firecrackers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o6pvrBNLow
You had to know the Greek thing is all fake as soon the default happened and IMF pretended it didn't because credit default swap bullshit. At first the banksters were going to ignore the referundum, then after the default they demanded it. Light up or leave me alone.
Scary, scary fireworks. There ought to be a law..../s
If the Greeks fall out of the EuZone and become a vibrant success, you know what will happen shortly after. Everybody and their grandma will soon follow.
The IMF will do anything to prevent seperation and if not, vibrant success.
Maybe PCR is not being clear, but does anyone else see this contradiction?
If the many vote for liberty, then democracy wins.
If the many vote for oppression, then democracy loses.
Of note: A democracy is the rule of the many. For non contradictory definitions of types of government, we refer to the best political historian:
The words constitution and government have the same meaning, and the government, which is the supreme authority in states, must be in the hands of one, or of a few, or of the many. The true forms of government, therefore, are those in which the one, or the few, or the many, govern with a view to the common interest; but governments which rule with a view to the private interest, whether of the one or of the few, or of the many, are perversions. Aristotle, Politics (book 3)
OC, Surely you recognize that a vote undertaken under extraordinary distress, where the ECB effectively cut all liquidity in Greece prior to the vote is NOT a vote of a Democracy. The people can see through the "TBTJ" phantom debt "money" creation control fraud... The ultimate in taxation without representation where the "TBTJ" control fraud operators capture the seigniorage (rather than the public coffers) and everyone else bears the "inflation"...
I agree, and it therefore follows that democracy already does not exist.
Humans are pigs and want their politicians to give them things they don't want to pay for in taxes and the politicians oblige in every country. Its that simple whether its the USA , Europe or Russia they are all in debt up to their ears. Greece just has taken it to a new level.
Russia is only in debt up to their mid calf, 12% of GDP
USA is under water, 103%
So wrong concerning Russian
Russians do not spend money they do not have normally
The flaw is to trust the willfully ignorant to make wise choices. The sheeple crave a king to think for them, to protect them, to be their hero. They expect some god to provide a Hercules, a Sampson, a King David, or a messiah to fight for them.
What they fear is responsibility for choices. Hope is their opiate.
Throw in an over dosing of demagoguery and the sheeple are stoned.
The referendum only offers a choice between two bad versions of the same thing.
Yes: a deal will be made by Tsipras or his replacement.
No: Tsipras has pledged to make a deal with the TROIKA.
Will the TROIKA (include the US & NATO) come around to making a deal? Likely, given that is what the US seems to want for now, as indicated by the recent US-backed IMF report. The TROIKA holds the cards. They can out-wait Tsipras in a he-said / they-said blame game for failed negotiations so long as Tsipras insists on getting a deal.
There is no choice in the referendum to vote for a GREXIT (and to quit NATO).
And sadly, probably not enough Greeks would now vote for that choice anyhow.
For sure, we will not know from this vote on this referendum.
And one reason why not is because Tsipras has, by his words and actions,
been feeding the myth that what is best for Greece is to stay in the EU & NATO,
and to eventually conclude an agreement with the self-styled humanitarian TROIKA.
and to keep the (alleged) benefits of the EU along with the (imagined) security of
NATO.
"a fearful and intimidated Greek population might vote against the only government that, instead of accepting a payoff from Greece’s enemies, fought for the welfare of the Greek people. ... If the Greeks vote for their oppressors and against their own government, democracy in the EU will cease to exist. The fate of all Europeans and of Americans themselves will be settled on Sunday."
Was the author playing "The Internationale" on an endless loop while writing this nonsense?!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2w8t3q_rt-crosstalk-1-july-cold-war-pa...
Again, Greece need only become the off-shore banking haven for the Russian-Chinese financial pivot.
EVERYONE wants and needs a physical dark pool to get shit done.
The City of London, Germans and the Fed will be your best customers.
The US has co-opped the Caribbean and Swiss, etc. The IRS gets daily dumps of data.
Same with China. How do all those corrupt forces lander their money - Las Vegas real estate.
If the 10 million sun drenched Greeks can't figure their future is NOT in the IMF orbit then the deserve what they get.
Greece does not need to leave the Euro. Halt all foreign payments. Create neighborhood watch groups fro all the pensioners. Let the economy fall to shit and eat octopus for three years. Pick up rebuild. Attract foreign investment. Party.
Who owns the international banking system? Who guarantees that everyone has what they say they have?
How do you transfer a trillion Euros from one entity to another? How do you spend a trillion?
In Scotland the old, weak and dependant sold out the souls of their following generations so they could remain firmly attached to the teet. I fear the same for Greece.
The Scots have always been a bunch of pussies.
The Greeks? I dunno.
Opportunities to vote for democracy versus serfdom don't come around that often. Let's hope they make the best of it!
Just to be clear, in the original Greek democracies, not everyone had the right to vote.
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
? Isaac Asimov
Yes - please fuck me in the ass with a cactus...
No - FU, we'll take care of our own business...
"According to history books, democracy originated in Greece. Of course, historians could be mistaken"
They are mistaken. But, to a degree, Greece was the first to have a form of real State Deomocracy. As enshrined in law. Many northern cultures had democracy as part of the social norm. Though in the deep past they were tribal, not state. Vikings carried a form of ancient, prehistoric democracy with them to places like Iceland. The Shetland Islands had a specific voting place designated by their Viking rulers. In the 900's. A place I visited. It was a spit of land surrounded by water on three sides, so voters were forced to stay and vote, and deal with the results. You could not complain about the result, storm off and refuse to accept the vote. If you did, the axes came out!
An interesting post. Perhaps all of us, worldwide, who are decendants of the Vikings should promote a new Vikingia with a right of return to our ancestral lands in Scandinavia, restore the worship of Thor and Odin, and drive out anyone who objects. After all, we are talking about claims only 1100 years old, not 2000.
As for Paul Craig Robets. He has decided, in his old age, to be the voice that no other American dares be. He can't be fired from his job, as any and all Americans who spoke like him would be. Nor does he think the Washington Zionists will arrest him, he knows they want to, but also feels pretty sure they dare not. So he speaks the truth, and he speaks his opinion. But, he is often right. There is only one truth, only one fact, OPINION is not alternate fact, nor alternate truth. The Zionists in media and government here have fostered the idea that OPINION, can be fact, OPINION, can be thruth, if it favors Washington. You see this idea everywhere in Media. Show media a fact that does not favor Zionism, and they will claim it is OPINION, and their OPINION is just as valid as fact.
This is just what Orwell warned us would happen. Double Think, Double Speak. Zionism that rules Washington has first gotten us to accept their holy books as fact. Now the same Zionists have taken over Washington, and sell their OPINIONS as facts we Americans must live under.
Washington was completely taken over by the Zionists just after Ronald Wilson Reagan was out of office. Bushes, Clintons, Obama are all Israelis first, Americans second. Reagan stood in their way, and that might even explain the near fatal shooting of Reagan early on. They did Kennedy, Reagan perhaps was also their target.
Yes. We oldsters who are relatively free of economic coercion bear a heavy responibility to speak out on the sad state of affairs in which our country finds itself. We are old enough to remember how America once was, and how it might become again. We see that our congress has been bought and paid for by the zionists for whom the prosperity of Israel is more important than that of the US. We see corporate control of domestic and foreign policy, for the enrichment of a tiny minority of super wealthy individuals who have no patriotism nor concern for the common good. We see a steady detioration in our moral and ethical standards so that the concept of citizen virtue on the Greek or Roman model is laughed at.
"But on the other hand there cannot be an intermediate between contradictories, but of one subject we must either affirm or deny any one predicate. This is clear, in the first place, if we define what the true and the false are. To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true; so that he who says of anything that it is, or that it is not, will say either what is true or what is false;
For resorting to democracy, the Greek government has been universally denounced in the Western World.
For resorting to democracy, Crimea's government has been universally denounced by the Western World.
PCR is a gullible fool.
Why would I make that assertation? He thinks belonging to the 'union of concerned scientists' makes him an authority. Never mind that to join, you don't need to be a scientist or even particuarly concerned. All you need is a credit card and time to fill out an online form. Not lying, my dog could join if he knew how to use a computer.
A YES result means one, or both, of two things. The EU succeeded in scaring the average Greek to death, and/or, the vote was rigged. But to vote is now moot; I mean why would the unelected members of the Troika ever listen to a vote - it is antithetical for them to do so.
Serfs love serfdom, they will always ask/vote for more big gubmint!
Happy 4th of July celebrating our American Independence (sovereignty gone) and our American democracy (overthrown by fascist government of, for and by multinational corporate monopoly). The only un-American people celebrating our lost democracy today are low life Teabaggers and bankster fascist.
The Greek People are in revolt against central banksters and their criminal weapons of selling debt as wealth, fraud and corruption.
A “no” vote will give them democratic solidarity against criminal debt.
A “yes” vote will bring a Greek revolution.
Bravo!! Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras. You are a democratic (government of, for and by the People) statesman of the highest order in Greek civilized tradition; Aristotle would be proud of you for calling for a referendum.
The fate of Greece is the fate of the USA and all other nations under the octopus of central bankster criminal debt, fraud and chaos.
Criminal activity must be framed as criminal activity and therefore the solution has to be framed in how do we break the criminal stronghold and bring the criminals to Justice for their conspirator criminal activity and repudiating the criminal debt.
We should be examining how to prosecution the central bankster fascist (merger of multinational corporate monopoly with government) criminal cabal and review professors Black, Chossudovsky, Hudson and researchers Gavin Marshall and Nomi Prins research into the criminal cabal activities.
I am a 71 year old student that has been following the maneuvers of the American bankster fascist most of my life. The EU was designed, financed and implemented by the criminal banksters and their shadow government of the Council on Foreign Relations. The banksters CFR activities are well documented over the last 60 odd years in plotting Treason against the USA and implementing the fascist New World Order. Selling debt as wealth is their weapon.
Do gold bugs really believe that the central criminal banksters are going to lose control of the gold market in the USA? Today, the currency is fiat but the BRICS gold backed currency of tomorrow will set a new gold standard. The bankster criminals stole all the USA gold when we went off the Gold Standard. The criminals’ loot, pillage, burn bridges and destroy as they move forward so that there is no way back. When the bankster criminals need gold, Emperor Obama via decree, will confiscate the gold in your teeth.
In my opinion, it will take a violent revolution to bring the fascist bankster criminals to Justice, until then, we are all victims.
The TPP ALLOWS slave labor camps!
Happy 4th of July fools.
I believe Roberts overemphasizes the significance of tomorrow's vote. There is coniderable confusion at all levels about just what exactly is being voted on. The Troika offer that is quoted in the ballot question has, in fact, expired and no longer exists. The IMF staff report from Washington, which has questioned the sustainability of any arrangement on offer by either side, has added to the confusion. What the referendum has boiled down to is a choice between accepting troika offers in general and rejecting them in support of the Syriza government. Both results would be dead ends looked at in isolation. A more useful ballot question would be: Do you wish to remain in the eurozone or return to the Drachma ?
Greece, start cutting off your pound of flesh already. This is the price you pay for sucking your country dry. Too many parasites sucking blood from the host. More than the host could provide. The host falls over. The parasites double down, sucking as much out as they could before the hosts heart stops pumping.
Greece. This is your next play. Start teaching it in kindergarten, the perils of having a corrupt and bureaucratic government. The dangers of a welfare state and an indifferent population. Make a book about it. Read it in kindergarten. Have more advanced versions of the same story for school, high schools. Make a lesson out of it. Make a park. Call it the "Park of the Profligates".
Greece is at an impasse. Reinstating the Drachma is not a panacea. Geo-political winds are blowing. This doesn't help the cause, and neither do predatory organizations like Goldman Sachs, however, if the Greek people are happy to fuck over themselves and their children, serve them up a big ol' bowl of taxation without representation, then so be it. Fold. Let your creditors carve out a kidney, part of your liver, perhaps some skin and an ear or two, pull your pants down, and take it like a bitch.
But don't feel to poorly, Greece. You are not an anomoly. Japan, USA, China, they are by no means model financial citizens. They will have their turn.
What a joke. The sheeple like being fleeced. It's in their DNA.
PCR--Get off it. I'm getting tired of this type of thinking. Life is a process of events;
no one thing is gonna determine all of the future. Take a pill; yeah, it's significant,
but sheesh...
what did you smoke paul craig????
the fate of the world is at the hands of some fuckin' beggars???
greece is a broke ass country. with very nice beaches.....
The fucking Beggers of Brussels are to blame for everything. Working people in Greece did nothing to deserve this all out assault on their sovereignty.
Thanks Tyler, PCR puts it in a view to think about.
yes = moar serfdom default
no = restart with the Bric's
This is not your father's socialism