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Official Greferendum Results Show "No" Landslide: Singular Logic Projects "Oxi" Victory
Update: The Greek interior ministry vendor Singular Logic projects that “No” vote will prevail with over 61% of vote in Greek referendum.
BREAKING: Greek interior ministry projection says 'no' camp will get more than 61 percent of vote.
— The Associated Press (@AP) July 5, 2015
It would seem that the Troika's fearmongering campaign backfired:
And:
Even the dogs in the streets are saying it in Athens: ht @henryjfoy pic.twitter.com/7y5uTdJFzf
— Gideon Rachman (@gideonrachman) July 5, 2015
Earlier:
It seems the early forecasts showing the No vote in the lead were right: according to the Ministry of the Interior, with over 31% of the vote counted, the "No's" have a resounding lead with well over 60% of the vote.
Keep track of the votes as they come in live at the following page:
Source: ekloges
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NEIN NEIN NEIN !!!!
Where is DIEBOLD???!?!?!
Where? Here in the USA rigging the election for the Clinton Bitch to ensure Zionism rules for the next 4 years.
Hard default on the runway.
Ponzi phucked ist!
If "No" wins, it's a proud day for Greece.
Find & slay the banksters wherever they may reside, work, lay or slither - summarily.
The Lame Stream, Bought & Paid for "media" will spin this as Greeks being confused and/or short-sighted.
Roll up a wad of paper fiat 10" wide, stuff it with gunpowder, shove it up Paul Krugman's anus, and light fuse.
Happy Independence Day!
Maybe Greece should invite back all the bankers that helped them cook da' books in order to get into the Euro and take a march around Athens? The ole' 1968 spaghetti western Hang'em High might get an updated sequel?
Celebrate by stacking...even if you're already stacked up...stack some more!
Did somebody say Oxi?
Oxi Billy May Canadian mashup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONB8w2XejKY
Say hello to Mr. Panos... --> https://youtu.be/Zvl9N9GdraQ
HA!! OK that was funny.
Greece is following in Iceland's foot steps -- fuck you EU banksters! You are not going to run my country and enslave me to your rules.
The "NO" vote is like the Chinese guy standing in front of the tank.
and
It just got a lot harder for countries to get loans. This isn't over, it just started. No one will let that amount of money just disappear off the books, there will be some pain somewhere, maybe everywhere?
Paddy Power must be feeling pretty dumb right now
Portugal, Spain, Italy and others watching, waiting, salivating.
"The German mind has a talent for making no mistakes, except the very largest ones" - Clifton Fadiman
Can't fathom why anyone would get excited over the Greeks voting either yes or no. Please explain why anyone would side with either the lazy bums that time after time voted in governments that lied and schemed to borrow money they knew they would never pay back, or the banks/governments that schemed to lend money to a country they knew would never pay them back, just so they could keep the fantasy of a "United Europe" alive. So, which side are you rooting for, Asshole A or Asshole B? I'm glad to see the EU circling the toilet, but fuck the Greeks.
"Podemos" is next... Vamos
This all reminds me of what Adam said to Eve the first time he saw her:
"Stand back. I don't know how big it gets."
funk you snipers on the roofs... come on and get us you son of a fankin bitch!!!
Germany and France got No other choice but to let Greece go bankrupt. Any decision other than that would be the end of the EU. All members of the EU are now against any further spending on Greece which refuses to change its way of spending money it doesn't have and be a burden on all other European countries. All countries which were hit hard by the crisis managed to make changes and adapt to the reality. Only Greece decided that they are privilliged and should not stop borrowing money they can not repay. The future of the EU lies on Germany and France decision. Any attempt to keep pouring money into Greece instead poorer countries which managed to to make a lot of reforms and balance their budged, will not be tolerated by the EU members.
Good for Greece. Now they can start printing their own currency--which will be worth next to nothing. Good for them.
France knows it is f**ked with Le Euro ( a french invention if we recall) their economy is declining and not competitive, losing 3% of manufacturing every year from a base of 13% to GDP. France is just waiting to escape themselves and leave Germany with all the obligations, the original idea of Le Euro from the start (war reperations)
I am always rooting for that which will ensure the fastest collapse of the Federal Reserve Banking System.
In this case I am rooting for Greece to default on the debt as that will create far reaching BANK INSOLVENCIES ensuring GLOBAL SYSTEMIC FINANCIAL FAILURES.
If the Faith and Confidence in the Globalist Cabal of Banks is destroyed then there will be no viable Banks.
IDEALLY that will collapse the FED and actually it has a HIGH PROBABILITY of doing just that.
Fuck the Federal Reserve and FUCK the US Government.
The Federal Reserve is relying on dollars that are backed by force. Either go to federal pound you in the ass prison for not paying taxes in dollars or be droned to death for not trading oil for dollars. Only when the force is diluted or no longer there to be a threat will the dollar fail. I fear that is no time soon.
Unless Lagarde and the BIS was putting small wagers on the YES vote to try to stear the election... 10k on the yes compared to 100M in the market seems like a given any day..
The Greeks who bought gold coins are sitting pretty since they don't care what currency is used, drachmas, euros, etc.
OK all you ZH-noids!!
HELP GREECE!
BUY ALL THE METAXA YOU CAN GET!
It's a great brandy.
Ouzo too!
And eat cheeburger cheeburger cheebuger, no Coke, Pepsi at Olympia Restaurant!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwIhCD7T6fg
https://www.indiegogo.com/greek-bailout-fund.html
€10 buys a bottle of Ouzo.
Prepare for the geriatric maidan in Athens as Nuland arrives with fresh cookies.
she is heading *back* to Macedonia.
It is amazing they're letting her in.
http://www.focus-fen.net/news/2015/07/03/377129/nova-macedonia-victoria-...
They ought to arrest her at the airport.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/18/the-undiplomatic-diplomat/
Lightning storm in Berlin tonight.
I love lightning.
First the EU needs to incinerate...
Next target is the Federal Reserve!!!
Amen. One step closer to the end of the Fraud and Corruption of these bastards.
Dunno why the fucktard mafia here is getting so giddy Syriza basically doing this to have a bigger barganing chip at the Euro debt negotiation table. Till they declare the debt odious and start issuing arrest warrants it's all theatrics and semantics.
Well done Greece, now that's how you do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QkWS9PiXekE
Count over 63% turnout, 61% No 39% Yes.
FallenOne, if the glimmer of light almost ALWAYS turns out to be a train headed straight for you, why not take a moment to enjoy the beauty before taking the hit? I don't think anyone here is expecting teddybears and rainbows moving forward.
Today, TorV can take this opportunity to go on national television and identify the names of those steering the train.
<<Till they declare the debt odious and start issuing arrest warrants it's all theatrics and semantics.>>
Because the debt IS odious and needs to be written down or off...
..but then every one of the PIIGS will want to stick their nose in that trough. EU goes !! Poof !!
If Syriza balks at this point and even attempts to deal with the fuckers at the ECB the people will toss them out on their ear!!!
Syriza currently has a strong POLITICAL MANDATE.
The Greeks know that the ECB is the ones who closed their banks, pal. And they are MOTIVATED AND PISSED!!!
THIS IS WAR. FUCK YOU!!!
Next target is the Federal Reserve. This is INFECTIOUS and what is really NOT CONTAINED is not just the Financial Fallout but our own change of ATTITUDE.
The ECB pushed them into this. And it will have GLOBAL IMPLICATIONS...REVOLUTIONARY IMPLICATIONS.
FUCK THE FED. FUCK THE NSA. FUCK THE CIA.
Greeks have no idea what they want. They don't want to pay the debt but want to stay in the E.U and have their pensions funded! Tsprias himself has said this several times "Leaving the EU is not an option!" hopefully he is plaaying possum. Ya this place was the foundaton of democraccy but let us not forget the duality of these people...Their main god was a guy on Mt. Olympus that raped women and shot frickin LIGHTING BOLTS FROM HIS ASS!!
Perhaps you are right. They may not know what they want...
(Funny. I just read that the MSM will try to spin this as if they are "confused". LMAO that I am already reading this Spin here.)
But one thing is a CERTAINTY. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DO NOT WANT.
The European Union may have better attempted to PERSUADE the Greeks rather than CLOSE THEIR BANKS and THREATEN THEM WITH AUSTERITY.
There is this HUMAN ATTRIBUTE called TERRITORIALISM and another called PRIDE.
And when dealing with a TERRITORIAL and PROUD PEOPLE in one of the World's Oldest Civilizations, it may be best to offer OLIVE BRANCHES (Hmmm...wonder where that term originated) rather than to THREATEN THEM WITH STARVATION.
Currently it is far too late for Brussels or the IMF to approach it in this manner. You guys, yes you, you work for them***, really attacked their pride and their homeland with your unenforcable threats, treating them as a military conquered and vanquished population..
You pissed off an entire population with your greedy bullshit. Closing the Banks was a FATAL ERROR.
And your entire European Union dream will wake up to the rude reality that it is DISINTEGRATING because you d not understand the CULTURAL DIVERSITY and the inherent attitudes of the populations of your neighbors.
What? Are you guys in Brussels and Frankfurt that much of dipshits? It is laughable actually. You are targets for far away laughter.
***That is what refealed that you are working this forum to manage perspective as a shill for your boss.
Where do you think all these money that were given to Greece came from? They came from the other 18 EZ members. They were helping a fellow member in need. A fellow member which decided not to balance their budged and not to make any real (though painful) reforms. All these members do not see Greece as a loyal partner anymore, but as burden on their economies and budgets. Any further spending on Greece would separate Europe and would end it sooner or later.
Greece biting the hand that feeds them... I'm all for them getting out of the EU, but they also want their government to pay them for life. They certainly aren't voting no for liberty. They want a socialist lifestyle even when the whole country is broke. Hard times are ahead for them.
As if the entire European Union is not Socialist?
If they wanted a Socialist Lifestyle, with massive unemployment and outright starvation, they they could vote to stay in the European Union.
That does not seem to be the case. It seems that the young want to be employed and EARN MONEY, capitalism.
So your compatriot's argument was weak and your boss ordered you to bolster it?
(Yes I am aware on how this works. I have been on these pages for quite awhile...)
@FallenOne are u a banker?
I fully believe Tsipras believes the Euro was a gigantic mistake for the greek people. But I think he is a wise man...he's playing along like Julie Roberts in Sleeping with the Enemy because he knows he needs time. I applaud him for this...
related infos about this NO vote will be smashed in tv medias... the only way to spread is to complete the choice of reconstruction ( from exit euro to printing money and new business with east -> which is not what tzipras's choice, he just want to relief and reduce debt, not get the fuck out ) --> that will take years.
then one day when they will ask what's up with greeks ? and they see economy is nice ( not sure AT ALL ), then you will have some lines to budge worldwide, they are under the scope now but nothing gonna change about mankind against banking system.
a man dangerous enough to ruin 500 million people union over 28 countries and 19 in same money deserve to die, ie: kenedy 101, or more precisly kennedy 11110....
Does Malaysia still have an arrest warrant out for Soros?
One step at a time FallenOne, one step at a time.
"Fucktard" is a bit harsh, wouldn't you agree?
By the way, do you know what a comma or period is ...
You Jackwagon
A win for Oxi will be a fine thing but these folks are on the real front lines.
Greek villagers' secret weapon: Grow your own foodhttp://news.yahoo.com/greek-villagers-secret-weapon-grow-own-food-121623...
I'm definitely a novice when it comes to growing my own food, but even picking a couple strawberries or tomatoes from my 4'x8' garden feels like a little bit of freedom.
Good on them!
Yes, indeed. In this crazy world self reliance has become a revolutionary act.
Not only does gardening provide you with fresh, unadulterated food but it also reduces your reliance on the Federal Reserve. Consider this: If you grow $1 worth of vegetables or chop $1 worth of firewood you're actually saving about $1.35 all told because if you had to work for the money to buy those things you would have had to earn at least $1.35 to have $1 left over after taxes to pay for those things.
Take a bite out of a homegrown tomato and you take a bite out of a banker.
If I take a bite out of a homegrown tomato, I get ill. I'll start throwing up. I don't even like the way that they smell. OTOH, I can do tomato sauces. Whatever it is in tomatoes that does that to me breaks down when they're cooked. Now, a melon that was ripened on the vine, that I can do.
I've got Minnesota Midget and Eden's Gem melons going this year. The bankers won't get a slice of them either but you are welcome.
For musk melons, I've got NM Melons, Corrales Melons and Isleta Melons. For water melons, I have Navajo Winter Watermelons and Tohono O'odam Watermelons. It's my first year messing with watermelons, so this ought to be fun.
Sounds like you live somewhere south of me. In Western PA melons don't grow very big. That's why I'm growing the midgets. Do you save seeds? I do and it can be quite a task to make sure that one strain doesn't cross pollinate another. The Eden's Gems are growing in my garden but the Minnesota Midgets are at Mom's. I've got too many different peppers to simply split locations so I'm going to try covering one of each variety with mesh to prevent crossing. This is a good resource for those interested in saving pure seed:
http://howtosaveseeds.com/seedsavingdetails.php
Oh yeah, I save seeds. I solved the problem of not letting cultivars cross by not giving a shit if they do cross. I just got my first squash yesterday. I know there is some white scalloped bush squash in it, and some yellow squash. It was pretty good. I can't wait to see what the rest of the bushes do.
And yes, I am quite a bit south of you. I'm in NM. I like to get native cultivars as the sun here is brutal and plants need to be pretty tough. If I get seed from an Oregon seed company that says "full sun" on the pack, I start questioning that and will sometimes try partial shade just because of what the sun out here does.
If I lived in your climate I'd be growing tea and yaupon holly for caffeine content. Also olives for the oil. I'm trying them here but I'll have to overwinter indoors. Oil and caffeine would likely be valuable commodities if TSHTF.
I've grown mutant squash by accident in the past but I select my varieties based on certain attributes which I don't want to be diluted. I grow Long Island Cheese Pumpkin (Cucurbita moschata) for sweet pumkin custard, I grow buttercup squash (Cucurbita maxima) as it tastes similar to sweet potatoes, I'm trying Zucchini (Cucurbita pepo) this year even though I've never even tasted one before but as it is a summer squash I don't want future generations to have winter squash qualities. None of those varieties will cross because they are different varieties as noted above.
The only winter c pepo cultivar that I grow is a pie pumpkin, and that stays away from the summer squashes. I'll probably get a cross someday, but when that happens, I'll just rip the plant out if I don't like it. I also grow a Navajo Cushaw (c agrospyrmia,) that doubles as a winter or a summer squash. It's good both ways, and can be used in place of pumpkin, keeps VERY well and can produce some big squashes. I still have some that are perfectly good from last year.
As for the tea and olives, I've looked into it. The tea might work here, but we can get colder than people would think in the winter. The coldest that I've seen it in my area is -6f, though normally the yearly low is 5f-10f, with average lows ranging from 15f-25f during the coldest part of the year. Tea may work, may not, but caffeen producing plants are marginal here. It sucks, but it is what it is. As for oil, the natives used sunflower oil a lot, and those do grow wild here.
Yaupon holly is the only caffeine producing plant native to North America and it supposedly does well in Texas so it might work for you. Its scientific name is Ilex vomitoria as Indians used it in a purging ritual but used normally it's not supposed to make you puke. It used to be very popular and was even exported to Europe under the name cassina. I'm hoping to make a go of it in zone 6B (requires zone 7 or above) and would mix it with chicory in order to make a caffeinated ersatz coffee.
Maybe with the right microclimate, Billy. I once tried a snow gum and Brown Turkey Fig in 7a, with a suitabable microclimate. They froze to the ground every winter, but the roots survived. I don't recall if the fig was grafted or not, if so, it wouldn't have been the right fig, anyway. Don't forget about Green Mormon Tea! Euphorbia species? don't recall.
Last year I started a Chicago Hardy fig outside which died off almost to the ground over winter but came back this year and is doing well. Three other figs are in 5 gallon buckets which I overwinter indoors.
Mormon tea is an mostly ephedra free version of Ma-Huang. It has little stimulating effect but is supposed to be good for those with breathing problems. I avoid the ephedra family as it can do weird things if overused and as I'm looking for a potential coffee substitute overuse it I would.
The micro-climate thing is interesting. I've got my Yaupon near a south west facing brick wall so that might help. Small variations in conditions can make a big difference. I live in zone 6B but if I took a five minute drive to the top of the nearby hills I'd be in zone 6A.
Mormon tea grows wild out here. I saw a bunch of it growing wild on a hike a few weeks ago in an area that sees enormous temperature fluctuations throughout the year, and not a lot of precipitation. It is very tough stuff. It'll get up to 105-110 in the area in the summer, and a few years ago, we had an arctic air mass move in, and it got down to -15f to -25f in that general area. I have some seed sitting in the freezer.
TSHTF medicine chest.
Ephedra, Mormon Tea Green (Ephedra viridis)
Family: Ephedraceae
Perennial, primitive shrub with jointed stems, hardy to - 10 degrees F. Native to the American Southwest. Our indigenous American Ephedras, unlike the various species of "ma-huang" that come from China, are very low or devoid of Ephedrine alkaloids. However, these plants (known collectively as "mormon tea," there are actually several species, of which Ephedra viridis is one of the nicest. The tea is markedly astringent, and is a non-stimulating bronchial dilators of use in treating the common cold or asthma. There's more to the herb, apparently, than alkaloids... Plant prefers full sun and very fast draining soil. A 1 month cold, moist stratification will improve germination. Scarify lightly and sow seeds in fast-draining mix. Germination is usually a bit spotty, starting at 2 weeks and continuing on for some time. Individuate the plants and grow out in pots for a year or two before transplanting to landscape.
Open Pollinated 30 seeds/pkt.
https://www.horizonherbs.com/product.asp?specific=2364
That is likely a suitable micro-climate. Obviously, you are mulching well to save the roots or else snow is your friend. I do not know if windburn or winter dessication is an issue there. Now, you may need to be concerned with hardening it off with a bit of semi-drought to send it into dormancy before an early hard frost and hoping it doesn't leaf out before the last frost, which is not necessarily a killer. A southern exposure may hurt you there. If it can be done, I believe that you will find the formula. If you are stubborn enough, you may wind up running smudge pots and fans like the orchardists. If you come up with a hardier one, get a plant patent!
I caged the fig, filled the cage with dry leaves and covered all with a blue tarp. When I withdrew the tarp in spring I saw that the leaves had compacted near the bottom and that's the part that survived. I'll have to try letting the leaves consolidate with occasional tamping down before covering this year in order to achieve better insulation. Last winter was brutal so things shouldn't get any worse in the future.
The yaupon went in just this year so we'll see if the micro-climate is sufficient. I bought six plants and put three in the ground and three in containers. The plants in containers will be placed outside in the basement window wells over the winter.
I'm surprised that no southerners have chimed in about yaupon. It supposedly grows everywhere done there as a shrub. Amazon vendors are charging from $2 to $13 per ounce for the dry leaves. Imagine the value if imported coffee and tea were no longer available.
So who out there is growing yaupon and have you tried a hot steaming cup of it yet?
Fig leave make a wonderful tasting tea as well. It is also helpful for insulin regualtion I hear.
Why in the hell are people downvoting me for saying that I'll start throwing up? Because I will. Get a tomato off of the shelf at a store or bring one from your garden and let me take a bite out of it while you stand in front of me. You WILL be taking a shower after that.
I love tomaters, but the wise G Carlin once said, "You cut open a tomato and take a look inside, it looks like something has gone wrong in there. Like it's still in the larval stage."
Tomatoes are the one piece of produce a hog won't eat. For hundreds of years people thought they were poisonous and used them for table decorations. No shit.
But I love em.
There is something in them that I do not get along with. People always tell me that I must not like the texture or something. No, that's not the case. There is something in them that my body does not react well to. I don't care about the texture. Take a bunch of salad, put it in a baggie, set it on the counter and let it turn brown and slimy. That's kind of what tomatoes smell like to me, but worse. Whatever it is that does that to me goes away with cooking. So I grow tomatoes for others to eat fresh and for sauce.
I have the same problem with raw tomatoes. I don't like the taste or texture but do like tomato sauce and ketchup because they're cooked. Once, my parents made me eat several slices and I got the worst cold sores you've ever seen that lasted several days. But after that, there was no more pressure to eat fucking tomatoes.
Why in the hell are people downvoting me
Must be collectivists. You're impeding their five year plan. Just stick a tomato in your face and cry, "Forward!"
Some of these progs can hold grudges, even when on an unrelated topic. You annoyed someone somewhere and they can't get over it. If you ain't ruffling a few feathers, you ain't making them think. Wear a few downvotes with pride.
Because you used the word 'homegrown' in that first sentence. Should have just said any tomato will make you puke.
Sounds like you were dissing homegrown. I get that you weren't (no downie here) - you just sounded that way...
Interesting thought.
Almost like Ghandi's Salt March in defiance of the British Government's tax on salt. Civil disobedience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_March
Yes, there is a similarity but Gandi's method of salt production was not meant to be economically viable, it was simply intended as an act of civil disobedience. I've got more than half of my 35' x 150' lot devoted to produce and the goal is to be both productive and rebellious. Don't Tread on Me(lons).
Do tread on the weeds though;) This has been the worst year in memory for me for weeds. We had a lot of early rains and they have gotten to the point that I'm pulling weeds and using them as mulch to prevent other weeds from coming up. It is having mixed results.
I'm trying Austrian winter peas as a cover crop between tomato plants. They've crowded out the weeds and now only the peas are strangling the tomato plants. But we'll see how it goes. Point is that the peas are edible unlike the weeds so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
I've got mallow, creeping spurge, ragweed, pigweed, elm trees, purslane, some funky knotweed and bermuda grass trying to take over. The pigweed is actually a kind of amaranth, is 100% edible, and I don't like it. The purslane is edible too, and that I do like. A fall covercrop is going in for sure this year. At least the goatheads are under control. Those things really suck.
I've got nightshade running wild all over the place. A real nuisance because it's very toxic and I can just see myself accidentally gathering some up along with lettuce or collards. It also looks a lot like tomatoes, potatoes, ground cherries and tomatillos in it's early stages so it can be hard to eliminate in those beds.
We used to get a lot of that stuff, but not so much anymore. Whatever alkaloid toxin is in it, they used to use small doses to dialate people's eyes. It is also related to tomatoes, potatoes, tomatillos and whatnot. It just happens to be toxic.
There is nothing revolutionary about the idea that you can be taking bites of out govt and bankers by being a slave.
Let me ask you who owns the land you grow food on? Do you own it tax free in an allodial title, or do you pay 1000s tomatoes worth of land tax for the temporary privilege to grow a few dozen of whatever-fruit?
Is your right to feed yourself using the land really a right or is it temporary and negotiable, open to things like zoning laws and food and safety regulations? Grow a tomato after paying 1000s tomatoes worth of land tax and they won't bother you. But how about this... Illustrate to them a bigger loss of revenue by growing... say... weed. Even if it is for personal consumption, they'll scrape you off that garden with a SWAT team like a piece of manure off an old shoe.
If you think that a little freedom can be earned by annoying the warden, shining light into his face off the proverbial ankle bracelet, then you are beyond rescuing.
But before you go all pissed let me emphasize that what you've written is true, but only and only IF you own the land. If you don't then the argument is null and void. If you don't own the land, the tomato garden is a mere distraction from the chain tying you to a pole. You've worked enough and given away enough for the right to utilize land. You've already made the banker rich. That's why he lets you run in your little grazing circle.
Which is why when SHTF, it will be our duty to push for allodial title. Property taxes are evil.
Most people don't even know what it is. Spell-check underlines "allodial" red as if it's a non-existent word.
People won't demand it, because they don't know what constitutes a right. Confederate flag is the least of my worries. As George Carlin puts it: "A flag is a symbol, and I'll leave symbols to the symbol-minded.”
There are only 2 acts of civil disobedience - refusing to pay any tax that is demanded (emphasis on demanded) and/or ending a politician's/banker's life. Full stop.
Anything else is a mere distraction designed to keep us pacified. If you've wasted the best years of your life growing fruit instead of putting up a fight, then go ahead, work that field. Dig yourself a little hole while you're at it. But before you go, don't forget to pass the shovel to the next guy.
Julia, isn't it the collectivist who believes that the conditions which affect him are the same conditions which affect all others and that his solution is the only solution that others can reasonably chose?
But practically speaking and more to the point, this gardening discussion grew out of a link I posted to a story about Greeks growing their own food during this crisis. Are you suggesting that growing your own food when no commercial produce is available is not a good thing to do? Should the Greeks simply stand around crying that they'll never be truly free and that they'd rather just starve to death?
Don't confuse an American growing food as a hobby with a Greek growing food out of necessity.
In Greek context this actually works. They are refusing to pay extortion tax to the EU. If you do that and grow food - you're my kind of people. The act of civil disobedience there is not the food. It's giving the finger to the EU. If you do that then you can do whatever else you want.
If growing something granted amnesty, American slaves would've sugar-caned their way too freedom long before Lincoln ran out of money and volunteers fighting the Brits. When a greenback ain't worth a continental, you can still dangle a carrot in front of a slave and he'll swing his shovel on your behalf.
Quoting Carlin again, the slaves were freed around 1865, but for another 200 years you'd hardly notice.
And for the record, I do grow my own food as well. Tomatoes, cucumbers, spicy herbs, black currant etc, but I do it on public land. There's a railroad stretch close to where I live and I simply picked a spot next to it. I don't own it, I don't pay tax on it. I simply grow things. If nobody steals it - good for me. If someone does - well, good for them. I know it's not cops or govt workers that are raiding the garden, but kids and homeless people. I have no issue with them. The treat is on me.
Guerrilla gardening. I've always thought it would be funny to get some marijuana seed, make seed bombs and go around to all of the police stations and the local DEA office and start bombing.
So you have land on which you pay taxes and I have land on which I pay taxes. You grow vegetables on some other, public land which you claim makes you more free than I am. But somehow hauling water to public land several blocks away in order to achieve what I can do much more easily outside my own back door doesn't sound very liberating to me.
Why don't you simply live on the public land by the railroad? Because of the inconvenience? If so then you are just as much a slave as me or anyone else. Tramps live along the railroad and I can just hear them philosophizing about how much freer they are than JuliaS.
Where did I say anything about being more free by growing food on public land? Read again what I've written.
The whole post was about confusing food growing with liberation.
As an American I grow food for recreation just like you do. You pay for convenience of having banker's land close you your home and I get to stretch my legs free of charge. At the end of the day I own the land as much as you do, and both efforts have squat to do with liberty, so you may stop waving your tomato plant like it's a confederate flag.
There can be no resistance without some food independence. If enough people buck the system hard enough to get some real changes, there is a good chance that supply chains will break. In SHTF, the tomato plant, as well as various other locally grown foods, will be necessary if one is to have the energy to wave any flag.
Fully agree. I value land cultivation and food processing as essential skills. Growing something is better than growing nothing. One day it may become a necessity. In some countries it already is. We're not that country yet. We have a stable food supply, an electrical grid and a water system that run 24/7. We aren't being invaded by a foreign country, despite the MSM hammering, trying to prove otherwise.
I say, grow food. Know how it's done. Teach your kids, but alongside convey the importance of land ownership. Teach them the difference between a pet peeve that feels liberating from an actual act of liberation.
Achieving liberty (like Jefferson said) means refreshing the tree with the blood of tyrants. That takes a bit more effort that planting a tomato. Gardening in itself is not a revolutionary act.
Where did I say anything about being more free by growing food on public land? Read again what I've written.
There certainly seemed to be the implication that your public land garden was somehow more satisfying to you than a garden on taxable land. If I misunderstood please tell me what was your reason for highlighting the distinction?
At the end of the day, neither effort matters, so you may stop waving your tomato plant like it's a confederate flag.
Neither effort matters? That sounds awfully nihilistic to me. Which of course is exactly where the bankers want you. It's much easier to abuse a dispirited victim.
I prefer to look on the bright side. I might be compelled to push a rock uphill for eternity but I'm still free on the way back down the hill. At least that's what I heard from some old Greek dude.
Well, from Ivan Turgenev's "Fathers and Sons", I love both the characters Bazarov and Arkady. In this case, Julia is a lady Bazarov and Billy is Arkady. Billy, you thought you were a nonconformist all this time! ;)
Can you translate that into Karamazov? I'm I Alyosha to Julia's Ivan or what?
Been too long! Dostoyevsky is too complicated and deep for my shallow brain. You are the content brother who was in the clergy. Forgot his name.
That's Alyosha. Ivan was the cynical one. Just don't make me be Smerdyakov. I wouldn't even leave the house if people called me Smerdyakov.
LOL! You sandbagger. You remember far better than I do! Touche!
I am nihilistic and I am dispirited. That you did interpret correctly. I'm no longer a fighter. All I do is work to make my family's life easier. I know what it would take to fight a revolution, but I'm not doing it.
All I'm doing is surviving. Operating on instinct. I'm pretty sure that what I do enriches more bankers in the process than it inconveniences. That's why nobody knocks on my door in the middle of the night. That's why I'm allowed to post things - because despite all the bravado, they don't yield a truly meaningful action.
When it comes to fighting a revolution... well, let's be honest. I'm an old coward hiding behind the veil of anonymity. Shooting a banker? Hell! I never fired a gun in my entire life!
Those admissions do not contradict my stated observations. All I say is that I know what a revolution is and gardening, be it at home or next to a railroad is not it.
You have a very constrained understanding of the word "revolutionary."
adjective
radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.:a revolutionary discovery. .
Far more people drive through McDonalds than ever plant a seed. Therefore doing so is a revolutionary act by definition.
Well, let's just agree then and be friends.
I was talking a regime change. That kind of revolution.
However in modern world virtually any self-reliant act can carry the adjective. It's a sad state of affairs.
All I can say - good luck with your garden. Mine's doing well this year. Lots of sun and no pests. Collected a basket of berries just yesterday. Enjoying them as we speak.
Have a nice day.
Good luck to you as well. But do try to keep your chin up for appearances sake if nothing else. Like when the Sargent in Beau Geste propped up all the dead soldiers along the parapet of the fort so that the Tuareg wouldn't know the true condition of the Legionnaires.
Of course, in today's world folks are more likely to remember that strategy from an episode of Gilligan's Island. The castaways stuffed Mr. Howell's extensive wardrobe with palm leaves instead of using dead soldiers.
Julia,
You are doing what you need to do. You are a good gal and I'm glad you are here. You are not a coward or you would not be here. We'd be poorer if you were not here.
"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
Dylan Thomas
Thank you for kind words.
As for the poem, I myself quote it frequently - my favorite delivery of it was by Rodney Dangerfield's in "Back to School". The conclusion is also spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTv1Dmu5CYc
Some of the best reading on ZH is in the comments.
I'm going to make some moar garden beds because when the spacing calls for every 6" I figure I'll make it every 2" and that will be better. Nah, not true. Fishing around for green beans is a pain in the ass...but Lovey makes a great casserole!
JuliaS,
We are going to reach a period where it will not be enough to just survive. Our beliefs will be challenged and, in some cases, changed. This will not be a pleasant process for anybody involved. But we are heading down a path where more and more people are discontent. Most probably don't know why, but they are still discontent, regardless. Unless you are at the end of your years, you will probably face the situation where you have to make a choice between what can be and where we are headed. In that choice, you will have to make risky decisions. Decisions that could both put you on the winning side of a conflict, but dead, or vice versa. Or maybe you'll come through it. Look behind you, then see where we need to go. Then look where we are.
Where we are is what should scare you.
No one needs Starbucks coffee; no one needs Bayer aspirin; no one needs BASF price-gouging crap; no one needs to purchase a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW. The list goes on and on.
As many here have been saying: starve the beast.
But keep listening to Beethoven's music: it's good for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpcgNrzMIH4
@ Billy the Poet - stop jacking the thread -- asshole.
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
New Topic: Elderberries.
What the hell is wrong with elderberries? Now Jefferson, he liked Snowberries. The pink ones are really cool. Not as hardy, though. Not to be confused with Snowballs, which are related to Cranberries, I believe, which segues right into Huckleberries and Heather. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Great plant for fall color. Too bad they tend to get leggy. I forget the genus, but the species is likely Canadensis, which is a red flag, right there.
Wait a minute, I may be thinking of Service Berries. The genus name sounds really cool if you pronounce it right. Probably in the rose family. I prefer the hawthorns. What other family provides sloe gin fizz ingredients?
Don't forget that the Romans called Garbanzo beans, chick peas. Cicero, the great orator was named after chick peas. Don't forget that all Latin 'C's were pronounced like a k. Wacky French monks in the Middle Ages mistakenly pronounced like a Greek 'C'.
My first LP record had the song Elderberry Wine! These people are characterizing us as trolls. It is an outrage and a travesty! I'm not gonna take it anymore.
Try to stay on topic, people.
P.S. Amelanchier or some such. Don't make me come over there, by mispronouncing it.
Jefferson and Washington were both fond of pawpaws. They are America's largest native fruit. The seeds contain a neurotoxin so don't eat those.
Here's a fellow who looks like he might have known Jefferson personally singing Way Down Yonder in the Pawpaw Patch in a pawpaw patch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTexsBoqaCA
Billy, you rock!
The Nebraska Banana. You probably even have Mayapples and Sassafrass where you are at. Me, I'd have to eat sagebrush to glean much from nature in my immediate environs. Mule Ears are so similar to Dandelions that the greens are probably edible.
We sang that in grade school! Who knows, I may be positively disposed to the Germans because we also sang The Happy Wanderer and something kinda like Du Du Liebe Mehr In Hertzen? Or it could be The Drinking Song from The Student Prince, which probably isn't German, just as The Sound of Music and Edelweiss isn't really Austrian. I still love it, especially when Karen Peris of The Innocence Mission sings it.
Oh my gosh! I'm listening to my father's music.
Fabulous video! Thank you for finding that.
To see all those PawPaw videos tends to help restore my faith in Americans.
My 4 x 8 in 2009 has now grown to a respectable garden i eat from all summer and can for the winter. You just have to start.
Yup. It's a bit late for a lot of things now, but you can start a fall garden, depending on what zone you are in. And don't expect to nail it the first year. I just started doing three sisters last year, and still have not gotten the timing quite right for my specific area and my soil. I have come to the conclusion that I need to plant everything at the same time, which some people would disagree with. With my soil, in order to keep the top moist enough to get the beans and squash to germinate, I have to overwater the corn if it has already emerged. On this, I guarantee that your milage will vary if you have a different climate and different soil. A lot of people say it is best to plant the beans and squash when the corn is 6" tall, and for most circumstances, they're probably right.
Somebody here told me about hugelkultur so I tried it in a bunch of 4 x 8 raised beds. It's all gone mental. I keep improving on it and now moast everything is grown vertically. The tomato plants (indeterminate early girl, betterboy) are now 7' tall and still going. Marketmore and Straight Eight cucumbers are up and over the top of a 6' a-frame. We already did 1 pickle-thon. All different kind of peppers, lettuce, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, beets, carrots, onions, peas, beans, arugula, blueberries, it's amazing how much can pop out of 4 x 8.
In honor of Greece tonight we're having cukes, tomatoes, with Feta cheese. Oh and beer.
http://permaculturenews.org/2012/01/04/hugelkultur-composting-whole-tree...
I guess I achieved hugelkultur accidentally. Shortly after I moved in I chopped down lots of woody shrubs and discarded them by burying them under the garden. I've also planted where there had previously been a wood pile and those plants do very well. Folks around here are doing something similar to what is shown in your link by growing plants in hay bales.
You could be harvesting truffles before you know it.
My wife and I braved the ticks, thorns, briars, snakes, mosquitos, chiggars, and 100 degree heat and picked 8 gallons of blackberries that are now in the freezer...less one bag that went in a pie...that was gone in sixty seconds with ice cream on top....we look like savaged, beaten, bloodied up messes....but it was worth it!
Good on you! Try kale the wonderfood, seems really easy to grow, even in the cold. Home growers of the world unite
I'm definitely a novice when it comes to growing my own food, but even picking a couple strawberries or tomatoes from my 4'x8' garden feels like a little bit of freedom.
and this is exactly where the problem is.... the dispatch of the land, check worldwide cities concentration, the hype of the fucking ridiculous vegetalized roof of the hypsters to make honey in middle of NYC or paris... for fuck sake, there is not enough room for everybody to be resilient & self sufficient.
THIS IS the MAIN PROBLEM. you can try to remove banking system, you can destroy fiat currencies, you can ruin generator and go offgrid, but if you do not have space to get your own stuff, you will have some who sophystically increase havests, with many shit inside, making you sick in long term ( monsanto ) and sell you this at the cost of one arm...
the ww3 is needed, it is not a fantasm, it is a reality fact, we are too much.
good day to be addicted to Oxi-countin'!
It's a Rush.
Come on Greece, join with your Orthodox brothers and sisters in Novorossia and show the banksters and oligarchs enough is enough.
imagining futures plunge, but ppt is on standby, cueing china ppt with 4 t dry powder, yellow stain with unlimited...
This thing's down 4%, kind of a binary option Sunday DAX. The DOW one is only down 1.28%
http://www.ig.com/uk/ig-indices/sunday-germany-30
Where 60% odf the population work for the government and they want to retire at 56. Yep capitalism is surely the problem. Thatcher had it right they spent all of the other peoples money. There are no such thing as predatory loans there are only dumbasses who can't or won't do the math.
Governments print money and control all banks/credit. They pick winners and lossers .That, the USSA, has not one thing to do with capitalism. It is Facism or communism take your murderous pick.
Who controls who in that relationship? The banks, or the governments? It seems to be mutually parasitic to me.
The banks control the government. They conned government into giving them the fiat currency concession and they use that fiat to further ingratiate themselves to government. It's like The Emperor's New Clothes. The emperor is too stupid to see that's he's being ripped off and so the tailors (read bankers) get the spoils. To the victor go the spoils even if the vanquished still calls himself an emperor.
The cure is to eliminate government as that kills two birds with one stone.
I know a guy that worked for the government for 30 years and was sent on a government course that taught these government employees how to retire from the government. This dude thought that he could continue spending as he had before he retired, but soon found out after retirement that he did not have enough money to pay his bills. He is in the process of complete bankruptcy right now, and will be forced out of his house in October. Presently, he is selling all of his stuff accumulated over his lifetime. When October rolls around he will be forced to rent an apartment, but will not have enough for food, heat, and phone, when it comes time to pay his bills. Bottom line is that government workers think they will always be bailed out by the government or their union shop stewards. And the age of the individual I am referring to is 56.
That is called a karma rebate.
Where 60% odf the population work for the government and they want to retire at 56. Yep capitalism is surely the problem. Thatcher had it right they spent all of the other peoples money. There are no such thing as predatory loans there are only dumbasses who can't or won't do the math.
A NO vote is a vote - and a commitment - to continue to wage battle with the banksters and their lackeys. It's the answer to the question "Are you ready for a fight??!"
I ask that question to all sorts of people these days in the US, campaigning for Bernie. People not only answer "Yes" (or "Hell yes!"), they light up. THAT is the secret of Bernie's amazingly rapid rise in the polls!
But still, it is asking a lot from people. Logic, reason, facts are not enough, because the stakes are real and immediate and many are simply not yet ready for it, not yet sufficiently recovered from years, decades of having the fight beaten out of them. I will be deeply disappointed, even heartsick if the Greek people say Yes, but I'll forgive them. It's a big ask. And the battle won't be over.
"I ask that question to all sorts of people these days in the US, campaigning for Bernie. People not only answer "Yes" (or "Hell yes!"), they light up. THAT is the secret of Bernie's amazingly rapid rise in the polls!"
One thing has jumped out at me during the election pre-season that has actually stunned me a bit: You want to know how to tell when your society has completely and utterly jumped the rails to the extreme in one way or another? It's when someone from the furthest outpost of the most extreme fringe group of the opposition party gets up on the podium, gives a speech for an hour or so, and about 95% of everything they have to say sounds like basic common sense. That is when you know beyond any shadow of a doubt whatsoever that your society has gone careening off the tracks.
Maybe Bernie never WAS "the furthest outpost of the most extreme fringe group of the opposition party"!
First, he was never a Democrat.
Second, multiple polls have shown his views on fundamental bread and butter issues (as opposed to the latest diversion being thrown up by the MSM) coincide with those of the large majority of the American people.
His views look extreme because they have been so thoroughly excluded from the corporate media - or ridiculed, denigrated, belittled when they filter through. The people are responding to a breath fresh air, to the pleasure of hearing truth and honesty, as I dare say are you.
I believe the No now! And it's decisive! Hurray for the brave people of Greece!!
I am over joyed! My wife is of Greek heritage and I feel very proud for the bold decision taken by the people of Greece. It is not going to be easy but I'll bet it will be a lot better than being a slave and go thru the same shit. At least no matter how bad it gets it is your decision not the scumbag Banksters.
WELL DONE! my prayers are with all of you.
They will have their hands full holding gold down after the markets open...
Somehow they will do it though. You'd think gold would be $2K an ounce at this point. Not just from this mess, but the entire global financial teeter-totter, yet it just doesn't move past 1200.
It's amazing to watch the forces come in and tap it down the way they have...
It should at least be touching $1300 with the volitility all around.
Must take a healthy "bank account" to accomplish that ?
Hey, in our manipulated world anything can happen. Maybe SCOTUS will rule that the Greeks misread the ballot measure and meant to mark the YES box instead.
And true commiserations to all of you who bet along the Ladbrokes line... some sad punters out there.
Hmm, "Execute order 66!"
WOW ... GrrrrrrrrExit...
not necessary but any any case it feel compromised.
total EU silence = greek banks remain closed = unrests in 1 week due to street fights yes vs no people...
could lead to government fall and make another puppet in place to apply worst deal than those refused by tzipras...
dont forget CIA is great at this kind of game... shitting in the middle of the room then escape by windows and let occupent kill each other...( i heard ukraine, anybody ? )
to me, whatever the result, it is what comes after who matter, especially interesting time if the russian/chinese move in the coming week, because they will certainly not remain silent at looking EU keeping money valves off. it is a space/strengh move in the chessboard those fucking EU psychopath have not see coming, and to me, it will come.
this moment arrived, you will not ear a fuck about ukraine anymore for months because the trojan [russia] will have jumped 1500km on the left of the map and will not anymore be about frontiere issue with vladimim stealing lands in a futur EU country, but vladimir lending money to a EU country.
at this moment, grexit is inevitable.
I rule out China, first they're too preoccupied with their stock market at this stage and second they said they wanted Greece to remain in the Euro. Chinese are mostly interested in Greeks harbors and it's easier for them to have Greece as a full member of the EU so don't expect help from them. Help in the sense that it would actually be beneficial for Greece I mean...
agree with you, i not see china messing with EU, they have others problem to deal with, but russia.... with the mess around provoked by EU psychos... it is a nice card to play in the deck to go support greece, especially if they play both side and keep euro. because EU will not tolerate the dual side gaming and will FORCE GREECE TO LEAVE eurozone...
tzipras have no win situation to go out right tomorrow, too much dangerous. timeline is not entierly set at the moment. but it will come relativly soon hehe...
Mail MY BEER to:
Thomas H. O'Brien
12223B Woodside Ave.
Lakeside, Ca USA 92040
Do not welch.
You promised a Beer to every ZH Poster if the vote was not 60% OXI
If you do not follow through you have ZERO CREDIBILITY.