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Greeks Vote In "Holy Moment" - Live Updates

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The Greek day of decision has arrived, and with it so did the Greek finance minister at his local voting booth...

... who then proceeded to enshrine today's referendum vote as a holy moment for Greece:

"Today, after five years of failure, the Greek people have the opportunity to decide on the last ultimatum of the Eurogroup, the institutions and our partners. This is about a holy moment. A moment of hope for the whole of Europe. A moment that gives hope to Europe that the common currency and democracy can co-exist, and they do co-exist "

 

His boss, Tsipras, who has framed the referendum as a matter of national dignity and the future course of Europe, was less religious: "As of tomorrow we will have opened a new road for all the peoples of Europe,” he said after voting in Athens, “a road that leads back to the founding values of democracy and solidarity in Europe.” A ‘No’ vote, he said, “will send a message of determination, not only to stay in Europe but to live with dignity in Europe.”

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras waves outside at a polling station in Athens, Greece July 5, 2015



The backdrop is all too familiar to most: Greeks are voting whether to accept or reject the tough terms of an aid offer - which has since been withdrawn - in a referendum that will determine their future in Europe’s common currency. As Reuters puts it, "held against a backdrop of default, shuttered banks and threats of financial apocalypse, the vote was too close to call and looked certain to herald yet more turbulence whichever way it went."

While Syriza's position is clear, it is now up to the people. Some want a clean break: "I voted 'No' to the 'Yes' that our European partners insist I choose," said Eleni Deligainni, 43, in Athens. "I have been jobless for nearly four years and was telling myself to be patient ... but we've had enough deprivation and unemployment." Angry and exhausted after five years of pension cuts, falling living standards and rising taxes, Greeks now face closed banks, rationed ATM withdrawals and the prospect of the country literally running out of cash.

Others want to remain under the control of the Eurogroup, even if it means no hope of a long-term recovery, as long as it makes the current pain bearable:

“You call this dignity, to stand in line at teller machines for a few euros?” asked pensioner Yannis Kontis, 76, after voting in the capital. “I voted 'Yes' so we can stay with Europe.”

Pensioners besieging bank gates to claim their retirement benefits, only to leave empty-handed and in tears, have become a symbol of the nation's dramatic fall over the past decade, from the heady days of the 2004 Athens Olympics to the ignominy of bankruptcy and bailout.

Anxious Greeks rallying for a 'Yes' vote say Greece has been handed a raw deal but that the alternative, a collapse of the banks and a return of the old drachma currency, would be far worse.

The ‘No’ camp says Greece cannot afford more of the austerity that has left one in four without a job.

The polls close at 7pm local time (noon Eastern) at which point one of two things will happen: as we get a clear picture of whether the Nais or Oxis are in front, it will either mean that the ECB's decision on what to do with the ELA's all important collateral cuts becomes front and center with Europarliament president Schultz threatening Greece that as soon as they vote No, they will have to go back to the drachma,  or else the Syriza government will have to resign.

“If they (Greeks) say ‘No’, they will have to introduce another currency after the referendum because the euro is not available as a means of payment. And how are they going to pay salaries? How are they going to pay pensions?”" Martin Schulz, the president of the European Parliament, said in remarks broadcast on Germany’s Deutschlandfunk radio on Sunday.

As Reuters notes, If Greeks vote 'Yes' to the bailout, the government is likely to fall -- triggering a new chapter of uncertainty as political parties try to cobble together a national unity government to keep talks with lenders going until elections are held.

European creditors have said a 'Yes' vote will resurrect hopes of aid to Greece. A ‘No’, they say, will represent rejection of the rules that bind the euro zone nations, and may dash hopes of a negotiated deal to keep Greece within the euro.

The worst case may be the lack of a decisive outcome: An inconclusive result may sow further confusion, with the potential for violent protests. "The nightmare result would be 51-49 percent in either direction," a senior German official said. "And the chances of this are not insignificant."

For now, we wait as do all of the people shown below, whose last remaining asset may be hope.

Reuters photos from across Greece:

 

A woman enters a voting station before casting her ballot during a referendum in Athens, Greece, July 5, 2015. REUTERS

A young boy (C) kisses a ballot as he exits a voting booth with his father (R) at a polling station during a referendum in Athens, REUTERS

A woman casts her vote in the village of Meyisti, on the Island of Kastellorizo, which is the most easterly of the islands in Greece, REUTERS

People prepare to cast ballots during a referendum in Athens, Greece, July 5, 2015. REUTERS

Maps of Greece hang on the wall next to a voting booth in a polling station at a school's classroom in Athens, Greece July 5, 2015. REUTERS

A woman prepares to cast her vote in the village of Meyisti, on the Island of Kastellorizo, which is the most easterly of the islands in Greece, July 5, 2015. REUTERS

People exit mass in the village of Meyisti, on the Island of Kastellorizo, which is the most easterly of the islands in Greece, July 5, 2015. REUTERS

Voting officials check people's identification in the village of Meyisti on the Island of Kastellorizo, which is the most easterly of the islands in Greece, July 5, 2015.REUTERS

A Greek Orthodox priest exits a booth holding a ballot at a polling station in Athens, Greece July 5, 2015. REUTERS

A tattered Greek flag flutters in the village of Meyisti on the Island of Kastellorizo which is the most easterly of the islands in Greece, July 4, 2015. REUTERS

* * *

Real-time updates during the voting day:


France, where Marine Le Pen aka Madame Frexit has sworn France will be next to leave the Eurozone unless her demands are met, is getting nervous:

French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron says “it would be a historic error to crush the Greek people” in the event of a no vote in Sunday’s Greek referendum.  Europe and Greece need to find a compromise on reforms in the country and debt relief whatever the result of today’s referendum, "We need to rise to the occasion. To the Greeks, we speak of responsibility, but we all have responsibility."

Former UK Chancellor Alistair Darling joins the IMF chorus seeking debt haircuts:

"By extension, it'll be yet another break on what is a very slow recovery in the global economy. Now in my experience, if you want to sort something, you've got to sort it properly. It's been five years now since the Eurozone tried to sort out the Greek problem. It's manifestly failed to do so. To my mind, unless they take the decision they've got to take to write off substantial amounts of Greek debt, and then to put in place a programme that has got to be delivered in turn by the Greek government, this is going to continue."

Yanis Varoufakis has underlined his promise to quit if Greece votes 'Yes'.  Asked if he would really resign if the outcome of the referendum was 'Yes', he told the German newspaper Bild: 

"Absolutely. There will not be a majority for 'Yes"

Bundesbank chief Jens Weidmann says the German central bank's remittance to Wolfgang Schaeuble's finance ministry will be reduced to zero in the event of a Grexit, Bloomberg reports, citing Handelsblatt.

Handelsblatt says Weidmann told cabinet meeting of German govt last Wednesday. Finance Ministry currently estimates EU2.5b of annual profit from Bundesbank.

Former Greek PM George Papandreou chimes in why he is voting Yes, despite getting sacked for threatening to conduct precisely this kind of referendum:

"For the big changes, it is of strategic importance to stay in the hard-centre of the eurozone in order to conduct those big changes in the most effective way. The negotiation is not a dice in the hands of a government in a difficult position. It is the every day, continuous, consistent and systematic negotiation for Greece's voice to be heard - the Greek voice to be heard."

A young Romanian explains why a fresh start is the only hope for Greece:

I was born in the year communist Romania went bankrupt - 1982. The austerity that followed in order to pay the whole 20% of GDP of debt destroyed the country's economy, made the population poorer and isolated the country. The debt was paid until 1989. Only way out for Greece is vote Oxi-No.

For some, there is no change at all:

My partner and I are on Tilos, a fairly quiet and isolated island, which we return to every other year. The only bank machine is giving plenty of money, locals are stoic, there is little evidence of problem. The pharmacy is "lighter" than in recent years, food and drink prices are similar to previous. One noticeable difference is reduced tourism, which makes locals appreciate tourism.

A Greek, Julius Haralampou, tells BBC how he feels:

 

Like in the US, the Greek media is also controlled by just seven oligarch families, thus swaying public opinion in a way that leads to the least amount of losses for the wealthiest:

*  *  *

Unofficially, the "Oxi" vote seems to be in the lead:

Expect the first official estimate of what path Greece has chosen around 9pm local time, 2 pm Eastern:

 

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Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:09 | 6271237 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture
More fearmongering to get a YES vote:

 

Greece Referendum Day live: Fears a major Greek bank is hours from collapse as EU threatens to withdraw euro

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11718775/Greece-euro-refere...

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:12 | 6271249 laisla
laisla's picture

JO, shut up

dude! you trully havent  a clue!

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:16 | 6271257 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

"Just give me my god damn pension before I wack you with my cane!"

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:28 | 6271290 NoDecaf
NoDecaf's picture

What? No Diebold machines?

 

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how voting is supposed to be done. Into a clear plastic box in the middle of the room where everyone can see one ballot at a time being put into it. The paper ballots are a PHYSICAL record of the vote. Voting is a human action and should remain tangible no matter how much gee-whiz technology TPTB promise us it will make things easier and faster.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:51 | 6271349 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

What pensioners are saying to young greeks is more or less "it is us who were supposed to screw you with our ponzi schemes, how dare you take our rights back?!"

Also coming to a theatre near you soon.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:58 | 6271360 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I've been waiting for this day for years now.  Go little Greece go! 

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:05 | 6271372 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

BTW how can a Marxist have a "holy moment"...reminds of Goldman doing God's work....

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:23 | 6271415 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

NO vote = Grexit

Russia & China come to Greece's aid.

Europe backs down from W W # 3

Unless USSA/Israel create a false flag similar to W W # 1

Wouldn't surprise me.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:47 | 6271488 Motasaurus
Motasaurus's picture

If 51-49 is the "nightmare scenario" then 51-49 is exactly what we'll get.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:02 | 6271526 BoredRoom
BoredRoom's picture

A secret court just ruled that Obowelmovement is within his rights to offer all GREEK YES voters, a Green Card, an EBT Card, and a $35,000 tax rebate even if they have never paid income taxes....

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:27 | 6271604 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Have no fear the Fed, BoE, and ECB get one million votes each to use.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:44 | 6271923 balanced
balanced's picture

They keep saying the vote is so close. I cannot find ANY "Yes" vote groups, signs, speakers, etc. (other than the former president/prime minister whatever). Where the f*** are these "Yes" vote peasants?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:04 | 6272019 zerocash
zerocash's picture

At 700 19th St NW, Washington, DC

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 13:05 | 6272337 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Staying out of reach of the 'no'majority?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:29 | 6271292 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

Who's counting the votes?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:33 | 6271307 Usurious
Usurious's picture

 

 

Jamie Blankfein, Ben Yellen, Janet Bernake and LLoyd Dimon

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:59 | 6271521 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

And don't forget...  TIMMMAY!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:40 | 6271317 new game
new game's picture

the imf voter fraud team, or is it the newly formed euro committe appointed by none other than the goldman drag queen. i'm suspect of the outcome, ha to close to call, some dangling chad like votes that appear to be copies. oh NO, a recount and court decision, another month of hand wringing b.f'g, s.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:59 | 6271361 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Henry Kissinger is counting the votes on bahalf of the BIS and the ZWO syndicate.

“The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: perhaps then we can force them to conform.

I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East.”

- Henry Kissinger 1974

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:10 | 6271381 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Who's counting the votes?

I am afraid they were counted before they were cast.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:28 | 6271434 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

At least the Greeks are acting civilized...they're a homogenous group unlike merika esp in DC, detroit, etc:

 

Man dies after stabbing on train at NoMa-Gallaudet Metro station

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/stabbing-at-noma-gallaudet-closes-st...

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:34 | 6271455 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

It'snot just the homogeneity of the Greek population, it's also their natural affinity for relatives, friends and people who have baptized their  children. They even know who their 3rd cousins are in most instances.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:01 | 6271519 nosam
nosam's picture

The graphics with the results have already been prepared, Vote counting is for losers.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:07 | 6271539 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

Hey Yrza won so how about the no is for sure the way they go seems nobody thinks that could be it so that the greek people will be made an example for the pigs states and we can see a preview of whats to come to the ussa soon

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:38 | 6271626 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

@PeterPan--Agree 100% that the votes have already been counted.  Greece will not be allowed to leave the EU because that would put escape ideas among the other captive populations. If somehow Greece does escape it will be  subjected to the most vicious retribution from the parasites. Losing the Icelandic feeding station was bad enough, the rest will be controlled or destroyed.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:33 | 6271859 Mr.Sono
Mr.Sono's picture

 

 its not who votes but who counts the vote!

Greeks have invented democracy and they voting like they voted back in the old days, except no rocks. I think it will be yes, because there is more older generation that is scared for there pension.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:58 | 6271517 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

And that was 41 years ago!!!! Why is this nazi still breathing? Grrrrrrr

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:18 | 6272099 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Did he really say this?  I know he is a monstrously evil man but I have never see his evil on such full display. could you provide a reference?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:12 | 6271386 Billy D. Tourist
Billy D. Tourist's picture

One of the people that are there waiting for the votes is a person working for the court system of greece (not sure if judge or not, yet definately not a lawyer) and the other 3 randomly summoned people by the government that are there to "help" with counting must all agree on every single vote, while counting. Otherwise they can take action againist the

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:22 | 6271411 Lea
Lea's picture

"Who's counting the votes?"

Teams of people randomly picked amongst the voters, and who are willing to stay for the evening, count the votes. Typically, you have a team of about 50 people per polling station, divided in teams of tens, each sitting together side by side at a table. One of the persons opens each envelope, shows it to the nine others, writes down the result on a list, and keeps each ballot paper on a neat little stack where everybody can see it.

At the end, the civil servant who oversees the whole thing counts the ballots on the stacks, counts the written results (there must be an equal number of both, of course) and puts the lists under lock and key.The ballot papers are also kept in a locked box after the counting, should the need to recount them arise.

During the whole counting process, nobody can get in or out of the room, and each person can get the counting to be started again if anything looks suspicious.

There is normally no way of cheating.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 13:50 | 6272538 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Similar to what eventually took place in my voting district except in my case the ballots rode to the counting location (county courthouse) in the cars of the people who had been officials at the polls. Some boxes were in a locked car  trunk, closed but not locked; some where in a locked car trunck but locked. Some were inside the car itself, where there might be four passengers (and they might stop on the way to the courthouse for dinner) and that box might be locked or unlocked and the car might be locked or unlocked.

During the several years when I was highly interested in what went on and volunteered for various duties, I once was handed incoming ballots whose box was wide open. When I confronted the driver of the car about it, a sheriff's deputy took the box out of my hands and went off with it.

This occured in a suburb of Chicago; it was about 30 years ago. I assumed then and still do that all ballot boxes from all IL polls were treated more or less the same (casually). I also asssume that no votes actually count except those from Chicago.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:01 | 6271524 Ain't No Sunshine
Ain't No Sunshine's picture

Where in the fuck is Jimmy Carter?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:21 | 6271573 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

He's casting a vote too.

So is the IMF and the ECB...

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:52 | 6271962 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

All true...  And if you have enough guns and a problem with your money, you just kill everyone else at the table.... God help us.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 13:09 | 6272356 malek
malek's picture

Why are you leaving out the significant question who won't be repaid? (and who still will)

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:30 | 6271296 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

regardless of the vote, when the banks finally reopen, greeks visiting their bank-held deposit boxes may find them very 'spartan'

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:35 | 6271310 WakeUpPeeeeeople
WakeUpPeeeeeople's picture

So the fat cat banksters are saying to vote Yes. That would be good enough for me.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:47 | 6271487 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

liasla - one week on zerohedge.  

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:16 | 6271776 chiswickcat
chiswickcat's picture

"Have a damn casadilla"

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:26 | 6271821 chiswickcat
chiswickcat's picture

Hey, laisla, when are the results in? (Since you are the only person on here that 'has a clue')

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:51 | 6271494 Pig Circus
Pig Circus's picture

I have no doubt they will cave and vote yes, then they will really be bent over a barrel. Not that it matters the whole thing is rigged anyways. The market will rally tomorrow and we will relive this bullshit in another few months. Either way the country is fucked you can't change the math here, there or anywhere. It's all a Circus until it ain't.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:23 | 6271804 chiswickcat
chiswickcat's picture

Possibly, but at some point the road eventually runs out. Just never know when. Could be now, who knows?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:56 | 6271508 greydogg
greydogg's picture

Fearmongering!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:54 | 6271700 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The youth of Greece will hopefully vote to remove the financial handcuffs that the Greek equivalent of baby boomers placed on them. I've pissed off many a ZHer by saying this, but if your only financial security plan is to ensure your livelihood through the labor of other people, you can go eat dog food for all I care.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:09 | 6271755 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:10 | 6271239 Budnacho
Budnacho's picture

DO it Greece!....Vote No!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:17 | 6271263 This is it
This is it's picture

All very entertaining for a slow moving Sunday.

...and que the pre-determined results please.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:26 | 6271281 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Voting on paper.  Not digital.  That's original.  It's almost like they don't trust the digital way....nah, couldn't be that.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:52 | 6271351 waterwitch
waterwitch's picture

Oxi, bitchez!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:10 | 6271240 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They will vote to remain slaves.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:19 | 6271271 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

They will vote the same way that Amercans would in the same situation.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:22 | 6271275 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The same way Americans already have.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:28 | 6271284 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

True. I see that someone here disagrees, though.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:31 | 6271298 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Prolly my pet troll, voting again ;-)

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:37 | 6271312 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

I pissed off a progressive, recently. I got junked so bad on an old story that I suspect the progressive has numerous accounts.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:41 | 6271323 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Progs, dead voters and multiple accounts...go figger...lol.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:03 | 6271366 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Mentor to young LBJ: "Son, get your ass back to the rear corner of this cemetary.  Them old folks have just as much right to vote as anyone else here."

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:21 | 6271409 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Because...

It's fair.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:57 | 6271511 negative rates
negative rates's picture

I proved so many people wrong about so many things that now I have a lot of people upset at me, well fook um I say, you can't fool the laws of nature.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:29 | 6271294 JamaicaJim
JamaicaJim's picture

<----NO....

<----OPEN SEASON ON BANKERS, ECB WANKERS, AND POLITICIANS

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:36 | 6271463 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

"they will vote the same way American's would and have"

yep...every single time a bond measure comes up in our local Houston election it gets rubber stamped...the Banksters have convinced the masses that somehow borrowing billions and millions is somehow virtuous.   i'm sure everyone in America sees the same crap.  

"voting yes on this bond measure, is saving the children...providing clean water"....or my favorite, building a new stadium so the billionaire NFL owners can make more money.   Our entire culture things debt is the only option.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:27 | 6271602 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"Bankers win."

Move along....

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:30 | 6271444 Duude
Duude's picture

You aint' gettin' it. They're going to be slaves regardless. Just changin' mas'sers.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:51 | 6271497 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Not exactly.

when they vote against the euro, it will be like a equilizer after a war.

And everybody gets a new shot to start over.

Yes, it might 4 to 5 years before it gets better.

but what are their options now? Getting every year a bit less and become poorer every year for the next 20 years untill they finally default?

You can’t stop this default, whatever you do. 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:04 | 6272016 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I agree with you but, it will be bloody no matter how you see it.....

All of those old people will have nothing for their lives work.... Even if what they were promised is crazy.... they do depend on it.... that will end no matter what.  I have to have a little sympathy for them, even if it was misguided by them to expect it.

they have no options and, they need to press the reset button and, the button should be attached to a bunch of guilotines and other life ending devices for those that put them in the shackles.

I think this is the start of the pain that we're all going to feel soon....  I mean, I wasn't the one voting to double our debt in 6yrs but, I'll get to deal with it just like all of you.

Even for those that can't do more than 4th grade math.... how can we double our debt in 6 years after being a republic for 239  years and not expect this to happen in the US?

Things will change rapildly now.... expect almost anything because the music is about to stop and there won't be many chairs and some of the dancers have guns.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:51 | 6272257 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

It's been downhill from my birth year (70 years ago). I see it all now. Those who are younger don't have the advantage of having seen it coming but I hope they'll have more energy than oldsters so they'll survive and even thrive. Go create yours, kids. And always vote for minimum government and minimum regulation and if it's not delivered, move somewhere that will. 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 13:04 | 6272327 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I'd love to talk to you, Dizzy.... 

There is a alot of bravado on this site and, BS and everything else.... but, a calm voice and wisdom is seldom.  :)

I'm 50 and I am young to have had parents that fought in WWII....  I didn't ever get much out of Dad but, my uncle told me a lot of things before he passed a couple of years ago....  What a wise man he was.....  I miss him.

One thing he said to me was..... "I've seen good times and bad.... but, for the last 60yrs, they've all been good times!"....  My mother told me about the hobos that would ride the rails and how grandmother would always feed them... my grandfather always had work during the depression and whether grandmother had work for them to do or not, she always fed them and, apparently, they put a mark on the house in some way so that others would know they could eat there.

We're not living in that world anymore and, I'm worried what that will look like now.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 14:24 | 6272805 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

I think it's going to be pretty grim, Whirling, but one way or another I think people will get through it... maybe with judicious help from friends, or maybe with township or municipal help. i have several neighbors older than I and I've been feeding one, a widower in his 80s, several nights a week for a couple of years. I just make enough for hubby and myself and run a plate over to the neighbor when supper's ready. He has a daughter and another neighbor that help too.

My folks were Depresison kids; things were very tough, not much food; during the war, also not much food but got by. Dad volunteered and did OCS, fought at Peleliu and some other islands, then posted to Japan until 1946. Returned very sick, died at 32. Many bad years ensued but I'm alive and sane, due to my own efforts. Married for 41 years. I've lived in the Chicago area for 50+ years. Would like to return to my home state but it's too far left for us. Texas isn't off the list. I'm not saying very much deliberately;  I think you and I are on the same page but this is not the place for confidences.

I think if there's to be a collapse, the sooner the better but that's not going to happen. Everything is about what's good for TPTB, not for anyone else. I've seen articles that suggest dragging this on for 60 years or more is what they want. I don't doubt it. And also the thing about a big reduction in world population. Since you're a ZHer I assume you've been prudent.

Hope you and yours had a happy Fourth. We sat it out, didn't attend festivities... we avoid crowds.

Best. Be safe.

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 14:39 | 6272806 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

system glitch!

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 14:40 | 6272807 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

system glitch 2.

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 14:44 | 6272811 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

system glitch 3

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 13:05 | 6272328 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

double post, sorry.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:11 | 6271242 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The Greeks are not voting on slavery or not, but rather the flavor of slavery. We Americans get to do this every two years.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:21 | 6271413 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Yes, the past 7 years we've had a chocolate flavored Amazon slime.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:56 | 6271509 Shibumi2
Shibumi2's picture

Yes, unless i am missing something....dont the same criminals who run the euro scam also own the greek central bank? So they either use the bogus, inelastic (to the greek government anyway) euro...or return to the elastic drachma 5hat is controlled by the greek central bank....the same crowd.

The former backed by the countries in the eu,.including germany and greece...and the latter backed.only by the greeks.

 

A yes vote is kind of like g etting mom and dad cosign so junior can get a higher limit on his credit card,, b7t either way the end is the same and the same crimi als win...its just a matter of time to foreclosure

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:38 | 6271871 Element
Element's picture

 

 

Long duct tape.

Hedging for a yes vote.

They're going to need a hell of a lot of it to put Humpty back together again.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:34 | 6272183 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Pithy! Like that, but also like the truth of it. I'm not going to vote again...I do not agree with the status quo.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:11 | 6271243 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

im really trying not to get my hopes up about this. did that with the scottish and swiss gold referendum, probably foolishly. not to mention this is also, probably, all going according to some grand scheme and the result of the vote actually makes no difference whatsoever.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:45 | 6271334 new game
new game's picture

you are not in the club and don't control the outcome, but hope and change remain the ultimate cog dis. carry on...

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:11 | 6271244 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Calling All Texans ... Operation Texas www.OpTexas.org ... It Is Time, Texas! ... Go Greeks!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:58 | 6271707 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yeah we saw what Texas does at Waco x 2 plus Texas gave us Lydon Baines Goldstein and the Bush clan.  WTF is with Waco?  Some sort of devil worship town like Sandy Hoax?

Texans are also obsessed with Trayvon football like the rest of the south where dumb whites cheer on Obola/Trayvon types like sheep and fan boys.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:37 | 6272078 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Waco was a federal officer FBI/BATF thing.

I'm a Texan.....  I write software for a living and, I choose to live away from others...   and with your opinion above, it probably wouldn't be safe for you to come here with that attitude.

There is something called, "a good ol' Texas skull draggin'" that happens to folks from outside that come and attempt to fling their excrement at us simple folk that don't know anything.

If the rest of the country were doing what Texas has done then we wouldn't be in trouble..... or... at least in the same shape the country is now.... now we have people like you coming here.... they've shit their own bed and it stinks and now they're coming here without changing their political views and they're fucking up the state I love.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:38 | 6272208 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Lived in Houston mid-50s; didn't love it but appreciate it now. Texas history in school taught me a lot.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:51 | 6272245 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Considering the news I see now.... It's almost unbelieveable that I can shoot off the back deck,  have loud parties and have bon fires at my house when, in other places, folks get their kids taken from them when they go on extended camp outs.  :)

sorry you left in the 50's  we'd love to have you back, Sir.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:57 | 6272290 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Actually now that I have the perspective, I realize how unique that time and place were. Return could happen, we'll see. I detect more leftism there now though; what can be done about that?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 13:39 | 6272371 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

leftism seems to be a disease.... they tear up the host and it moves to where sickness doesn't exist yet..... Calif. has come to Texas... the jobs are in Texas..... so, they come with their ideas that have made them move from about the most beautiful state we have for work...

we're still a good place to live...  I love it here... I bought a small ranch and, I live an hour outside of the city and work from home unless I have a meeting where I have to drive in.  I'm tired most of the time and, I should be outside right now working on things... :)

I have two downed trees from all the storms and, I need the wife and the boys.... actually, I need the boys to pick up the logs after I cut them with the chainsaw and stack them up for me.

My kids will know what work is like before they get out of high school....

 

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 14:00 | 6272644 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

I agree about the subject...it's an illness, you know where. Several states are californicaqted. TX might be the one with the most 'cause it's bigest, probably with better jobs.

Were you flooded? It looked terrible on tv, animals in the floodwaters. For my sanity I avoid news so don't know a lot about what happen, what the losses are. Hope you didn't lose animals.

Yes, kids should have physical work to do. I used to have to mow and rake the lawn; also clean in the house. Didn't hurt me, how else do we learn what has to be done. In our neighborhood for the last 30 years, no kids mow their own lawns or do anything outside. Don't understand what's wrong with those parents.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 14:46 | 6272923 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Holy smokes Whirling, the NOs are a landslide.

Could this start things sliding around the world?

Hang tight.

 

Diz

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:17 | 6271245 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

dp

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:05 | 6271371 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

SCOTUS says that DP is OK now, but only if it makes you feel good.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:14 | 6271252 FoundInTranslation
FoundInTranslation's picture

Of course the doddering old pensioner fucks are voting yes. They'd rather eat their young than cede economic control to the next generation. Pathetic.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:13 | 6271390 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

We do the same thing in USSA:  The Young go to war and give Everything, so that the Old can have Everything. 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:35 | 6271456 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> Pathetic.

And of course the young tossing the old under the bus isn't pathetic. 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:06 | 6271746 woolly mammoth
woolly mammoth's picture

Tough choice. Set-up by design?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:38 | 6271464 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Pensioners only make up 19% of the Greek population, not all will be able to vote.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:15 | 6271254 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Are those people rayciss checking voter ID's ?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:17 | 6271261 bugsmashers
bugsmashers's picture

Yes, obviously. 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:00 | 6271728 FrankieGoesToHo...
FrankieGoesToHollywood's picture

i saw that too.  oh the humanity.... checking IDs to vote!!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:19 | 6271259 mojojojo
mojojojo's picture

Greece, start cutting off your pound of flesh already. This is the price you pay for sucking your country dry. Too many parasites sucking blood from the host. More than the host could provide. The host falls over. The parasites double down, sucking as much out as they could before the host's heart stops pumping.

Greece. This is your next play. Start teaching it in kindergarten, the perils of having a corrupt and bureaucratic government. The dangers of a welfare state and an indifferent population. Make a book about it. Read it in kindergarten. Have more advanced versions of the same story for school, high schools. Make a lesson out of it. Make a park. Call it the "Park of the Profligates".

Greece is at an impasse. Reinstating the Drachma is not a panacea. Geo-political winds are blowing. This doesn't help the cause, and neither do predatory organizations like Goldman Sachs, however, if the Greek people are happy to fuck over themselves and their children, serve them up a big ol' bowl of taxation without representation, then so be it. Fold. Let your creditors carve out a kidney, part of your liver, perhaps some skin and an ear or two, pull your pants down, and take it like a bitch.

But don't feel to poorly, Greece. You are not an anomoly. Japan, USA, China, they are by no means model financial citizens. They will have their turn.

What a joke. The sheeple like being fleeced. It's in their DNA

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:42 | 6271329 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

"Start teaching it in kindergarten, the perils of having a corrupt and bureaucratic government. The dangers of a welfare state and an indifferent population."

 

I gave you a thumbs up for the right concept but got a laugh at kindergarten children understanding any of this.

I'm an old fart. In 1st and 2nd grade, we read Dick, Jane, Sally and Spot (the dog).

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:52 | 6271345 mojojojo
mojojojo's picture

It may seem comical at first read, but the idea is to keep it age appropriate. 5 year olds are capable of understanding simple concepts. They understand that if you eat a slice of pizza in the present, there will be one less slice to eat in the future. They will get angry if somebody is consuming a disproportionate share of pizza. If they work hard and collect tokens to earn pizza for the class, how long until the most productive see that they are consuming as many pizza slices as the lazy ones? If the teachers are creative and clever, these lessons can be installed early. I hope this has clarified my position :)

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:05 | 6271374 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Mojo -You're right of course...just busting your chain and having some fun while we wait for the outcome. Should be an interesting day Monday. I  think China's stock crash may be an even bigger story over the summer. China big banks and brokers seem to be throwing everything including the kitchen sink at the collapse to try to stop it. Anyway...that's for another day.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:10 | 6271382 mojojojo
mojojojo's picture

Agreed. Best let Greece dominate the headlines while it can.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:27 | 6271603 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I remember one day in 1st or 2nd grade the teacher asked the whole class to make a decision. She would pass out candy to each person. Those that saved their candy until the next day would be rewarded with ANOTHER candy.  Some of us ate theirs right away, some waited until others did and talked about it. "She might forget and not give us the second candy!" "Why should we wait?" Out of about 30 kids two waited...and were rewarded with another candy.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:17 | 6271403 Pliskin
Pliskin's picture

That is a, genuinely, really good idea.

...but you don't honestly think that Greek kindergardens can afford to buy pizzas do you?

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:41 | 6271654 mojojojo
mojojojo's picture

The experiment only works with pizza, sorry.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:42 | 6272224 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Nice parable.

Perhaps it could be broadened to include the fact that the pizzas are being made by a Central Pizzeria Syndicate who has a monopoly on all pizza production and that every year they make the pizzas smaller and smaller.

What would the kids think of that?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:14 | 6272075 stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

i'm an older fart  i had alice and jerry and jip the dog

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:25 | 6271414 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Which is why -- if you do not respect, trust or identify with them -- you have No choice but to have little or no pity for them, and why you or your family should not risk one drop of blood for the likes of them (to maintain the status quo).

Risking it all for an idea that doesn't exist is, or won't exist unless a 100% purge is made (ridding the body of its cancer and parasites), is delusional and pathological. 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:49 | 6271489 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Well said, as usual, Kirk.

I was positively pre-disposed towards you because of your well chosen avatar and moniker. You have certainly lived up tp my high expectations.

You may not be a mega upvote receiver, but you are an extremely valuable asset to this forum because of your unique perspective and bold writing style that stands out even in a crowd of singular intellects. Just don't get yourself banned, mister!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:18 | 6271260 mojojojo
mojojojo's picture

Insolvency, profligacy, bureaucracy. Anyone have a few others to add?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:47 | 6271341 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Corruption.

This referendum is a choice between bad and worse, however. Cocky socialist used car salesmen versus the Euro bureacrats and banksters. It is far from being an Iceland. The choice is harder than it appears.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:56 | 6271358 mojojojo
mojojojo's picture

I know. This shit cake wasn't baked in a night.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:17 | 6271262 juppez
juppez's picture

"Common currency and euro can coexist" what? in order to common currency to work you would need a federal state and as we know EU has almost zero democratic legitimacy as it currently stands.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:20 | 6271265 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

A vote of no is a vote against austerity. Why should people suffer austerity to pay off illegal, ie, ODIOUS, debt??

This is the most important legal and moral issue of our day and hopefully the Greeks will say "Basta!"

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:18 | 6271266 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

I didn't realize John Goodman lived in Greece.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:18 | 6271268 eishund
eishund's picture

never did understand the point of getting the sheeple to vote again when the government who was voted in to do the job could have just done the job. if the majority of the sheeple decide to change their minds now, the country is truly farked.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:40 | 6271649 Teknopagan
Teknopagan's picture

how's the  new girl-friend

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:26 | 6271278 joseJimenez
joseJimenez's picture

The Muslims have a saying  "The Devil we know".  If I may translate;  It is better to know you are getting fucked than not to know what you're getting.

Sad but true

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:25 | 6271279 krage_man
krage_man's picture

NO vote is leading in exit polls

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:33 | 6271305 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

I wouln't put a lot of faith in exit polls, this time. A yes vote will have stigma because of the perception of cowardice and dishonor. Actual Nai vote will be higher than exit polls suggest.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:30 | 6271283 Gyges
Gyges's picture

This morning information began circulating that a "political element" in Crete managed to come to a special understanding with Stournaras the Bank of Greece chairman to withdraw 1 million euro when every citizen can only withdraw 60 euro per debit card. It most likely is this guy.

 

You see, this isn't about a welfare state or socialism, people crave justice, they want to drag all those crooks in the streets. In the event of a close call, accusations of manipulation will ensue.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:33 | 6271446 Charming Anarchist
Charming Anarchist's picture

The right hand counts Greek votes while the left hand cleans out Greek accounts. 

<<Former Greek PM George Papandreou chimes in why he is voting Yes, despite getting sacked for threatening to conduct precisely this kind of referendum:>>

It all makes perfect sense!!  No wonder they waited so fucking long to hold this referendum.  Perfect timing!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:28 | 6271288 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Bend over ... your holy moment has arrived.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:28 | 6271289 bullionbaron
bullionbaron's picture
International Monetary Fund (IMF) vs Geece (Rogue Nation) - Mash-up (Movie Trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yZjLYb3hdM
Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:29 | 6271291 Debugas
Debugas's picture

historians will talk about this referendum as turning point in european union history - the beginning of the end

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:32 | 6271300 JamaicaJim
JamaicaJim's picture

“You call this dignity, to stand in line at teller machines for a few euros?” asked pensioner Yannis Kontis, 76, after voting in the capital. “I voted 'Yes' so we can stay with Europe.”

Yo...Zorba.....yer fucked either way.

Have some ouzo and eat some grapes....fuuuuuuck

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:40 | 6271302 deflator
deflator's picture

 Wonder if TPTB see some irony in Greece supposedly being the birthplace of Democracy?

 

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

 

“… The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating.” -Thomas Jefferson

Yes=debt money/No=debt money...how to decide between the "choices"?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:32 | 6271304 sudzee
sudzee's picture

Most Greeks don't get their news from the western propaganda machine so the vote will be interesting. Young and unemployed with no hope verses pensioners living out their last days hoping for scraps from the EU. 

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:36 | 6271311 Brazen Heist
Brazen Heist's picture

Everybody has a breaking point.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:40 | 6271320 mijev
mijev's picture

Vote Oxi morons!

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 10:45 | 6271674 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

Only choice!

 

:D

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:40 | 6271321 fibonacci618
fibonacci618's picture

Europe has reached a first important milestone in its long term decay: Grecocaust. Special thanks goes to Ms Verkel and Mr. Schnäuzle.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:40 | 6271322 dfwpike
dfwpike's picture

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”

    — Joseph Stalin

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:24 | 6271421 Monetas
Monetas's picture

Joseph Stalin, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barry "Barack Back Mountain" Obama !

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:41 | 6271325 Gold Eyed Cat
Gold Eyed Cat's picture

The souffle will either rise... or it won't.  We'll know one way or another around 1pm CST.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:45 | 6271333 Gyges
Gyges's picture

The sad truth for the pensioners is that a NAI vote will annihilate them, and they think they're preventing the opposite. They will be the first to go, yet fail to perceive it. They haven't conquered their fear.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:46 | 6271335 greydogg
greydogg's picture
The Truth About Greece: Syriza's Creatively Ambiguous Referendum @ http://99getsmart.com/the-truth-about-greece-syrizas-creatively-ambiguou...
Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:48 | 6271342 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

The euro is really just the Deutschmark. Why should Greece and Germany share the same currency?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:18 | 6271782 opport.knocks
opport.knocks's picture

At least the Brits were not that dumb.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:55 | 6271355 topspinslicer
topspinslicer's picture

Big Government (aka the slave master) always has a menu of "choices" for you -- it is the carrot that keeps you in the hall of smoke and mirrors

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 08:55 | 6271356 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Do you want it in your mouth or ass?

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:25 | 6271425 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I suspect they will be getting at both ends unfortunately.

The cures of Europe were snake oil in view of the unserviceable and unpayable nature of the debt and the efforts of Greece to streamline their bureaucracy and other systems fell far short of that needed to create the basis for change.

The only stability going forward will be the price of gold which the big boys will allow to trade in only a very tight range.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:04 | 6271370 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Take note America, PAPER BALLOTS!!!

Were you ever asked if electronic voting was OK with you???????

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 11:39 | 6271903 FrankieGoesToHo...
FrankieGoesToHollywood's picture

And they check IDs (picture of official checking photo ID).

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 12:31 | 6272169 Chris Dakota
Chris Dakota's picture

And then they needed to be counted in Spain with no audit option.

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:05 | 6271373 mcbond
mcbond's picture

GREECE the Race is ON

 

 

The IMF published a scathing analysis on Friday which practically stated that Greece can’t be saved from bankruptcy.

Real Live Ticker:

https://tersee.com/#!q=greece&t=text

 

Sun, 07/05/2015 - 09:29 | 6271438 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I suspect that Venezuela will also go electronic in view of its "paper shortage".

And there's the irony. They think they can save the world with electronic money but in reality they can't even create electronic toilet paper.

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