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Greece "Matters" Again - Stocks, Silver, Copper & Bond Yields Are All Tumbling
Greece (or China) matters again...
Not contained.
Charts: bloomberg
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Yes - except that gold should (and would - thanks BIS) be going the other way under exactly these circumstances.
Agreed. To me this is a coordinated "deflationary spiral" that the bankers "must fight head on". Result will be more QE of course, which was the motive all along anyway when trying to operate an insolvent ponzi.
It will be this way until it explodes, at which time securing hard assets will be impossible with bank closures and capital controls. The writing is on the wall. Up to each of us to decipher how and when to trade worthless fiat for protection. Myself personally, I don't bat an eye at price because I figure I'll be broke or devalued under their "new" system anyway, so may as well have something to show for myself that is out of their control when the paradigm shift occurs.
A good day to add to stacks of Gold and Silver. Not time to go "all in" but a good day to accumulate !
Keep your powder dry, Dirk. This is only the beginning.
How many ZH heads are gold and silver bugs? Seems like a religion judging by the postings on ZH. Au/Ag prices, like all other investments, are psychology/sentiment based. Is gold worth $60 like years ago, $1800 not too long ago, $1200 today? Only worth what the other guy is willing to pay.
Put yourself in a retirees shoes in Greece right now and ask yourself those questions. When the banks close and bailins become standard procedure, does price even matter? Or does bartering for food?
This ain't a religion, it's a choice. Choose government issued fiat that has historically had to be revalued at an average of every 40 years, or choose something that has stood the test of time for thousands of years.
The price decision totally assumes the measuring fiat "price" mechanism has integrity and is not corrupt. Is the USD legit? Only you can answer that question to yourself.
The way I see it, the system is falling apart and all attempts are being made to show USD strength, as other nations rebuke the USD. This is historic, if not tragic. Price is what they want you to concentrate on.
~"This ain't a religion, it's a choice."~
Somebody hand the man a cigar. To climb on nope's wagon, let me add this. You are talking the difference between at best a paper currency, (at worst electronic zeros and ones), to an element that cannot be conjured up out of thin air that has always been a medium of exchange and stored value. That's the choice.
I'm not a ZH head, but I am a gold and silver bug.
What you fail to realize, or else acknowledge, is that the only reason we have a dollar is because of precious metals.
Look up the definition of a dollar. Gold and silver are not investments. They are money, and that role has been usurped by a proxy with no intrinsic value, because you can't print wealth out of thin air when it's tied to a finite resource in the real world.
You are invested in dollars without even choosing to be.
Only one of these asset classes will have value in the future.
Psychology and sentiment do have everything to do with value, but that isn't unique to anything. It's true for all things. Value doesn't exist outside the human mind, and that is also irrelevant.
"Investment" in precious metals (divestment out of dollars) is not a religion. It's a matter of wanting to own something tangible that can't be stolen by a computer or by inflation.
It is fiat currency that requires suspension of disbelief and mass delusion/ignorance to maintain its value in society.
The gold and silver markets are a fucking disgrace.
I just consider it to be a continued oppurtunity to purchase physical.
Not sure how anyone could buy commodity contracts with how manipulated the markets are though.
Major JPM-orchestrated silver whack job today. Minus 6% at least.
Have been saying this for years now.
Gold and Silver = Dead Money
...until such time as there is some semblance of real price discovery. Will this happen in our lifetimes, who knows...
It will come back with a vengeance ....
So true. Just be patient.
And accumulate
Why is silver and gold going down in global turmoil?
Got a feeling there is some manipulation being done by some fraudsters...to keep a false narrative propped up.
The good news is that there is no stopping an idea or trade whose time has come.
I think they're slamming it right before the new petro-Yuan BRICS currency comes about.
Several reasons why not the least of which is TA which I will spare you from discussing to merely meet ridicule. Could very well be frontrunning of a global margin call and the next leg up for DXY on the way to 120ish. Sure, PMs are "for protection" in a sense but doesn't mean a global shoulder tapping doesn't take them down as well in the interim as trillions and trillions of USD denominated "assets" are extinguished and/or liquidated putting further upward pressure on USD simply because of the demand to liquidate in USD.
Take a few days at the Cape and looksie here the tough guys on Fast Money can't "get long" crude and copper and keep the dream alive with all of their muscle?
I'd suggest people are being forced to sell physical assets to cover margin calls.
More likely selling paper calls on physical assets.
Why?
Same reason as this always happens when an event that would be gold positive occurrs - to demolish the idea in the public mind that there are any safe havens out there to escape to.
Weill be ver interesting to see JPM and Citi's precious metals derivatives books after the last few weeks. How many more hundreds of billions added to keep the lid on, I wonder?
Why? Because the bubble popped in 2011 completing the 1980 to 2011 peak (~30 years).
We won't see another peak til around 2040ish.
Gold should find its botton around 2025 @ sub $500 and silver will find its bottom sooner @ $5.
What are your forecasts for the actual metal?
BTFD for metals.
...stay on target....
...stay on target....
LOL, the original Star Wars movie!
ALmost there.....almost there
No, it impacted on the surface!
(story of my life)
That's not true. According to your upper post, you got that cow pregnant cow, didn't you?
what is this BIS BS ?
If they crush the metals in the comm. sector then investors will pile into oil and it will stabilize (which they want)?
The other thing that is interesting in all this is that if the Greek vote had taken place 2 weeks ago it is very likely that it would have had very negative affect on the TBTF's quarterly profits. As it is now, they have the whole third quarter to try to make it up. Get set for some more stealth 'service' charges.
Not only are PMs not moving in the right direction, but most dealers have raised premiums so much that physical silver is more expensive today than it was when spot prices were 60 cents higher. Their buy prices, however, are sinking -- which is why there is a shortage.
Plus, I cannot help but wonder how many Chinese are cashing out of stocks and loading up on gold. It has to be huge.
Or, they got margin calls and have to bail out of their metal positions. That's what I think is really happening.
Soverign premiums at apmex were 11.99 each - now 18.99.
But Joe Kernen told me everything was fixed and that the Greeks were idiots for demanding a better deal. How dare they? Don't they appreciate their benevolent debt overlords?
Technical charting in this market is like pissing in the wind, but normally wouldn't we be right around the point of capitulation (one leg) very shortly around 17,600 with minor support 17,320 or so on the way to 17,000.
Probably premature for the overdue pullback celebration.
I would be a buyer at DJIA: 10000 and exteme buyer at 4000.
C working their silver corner just fine with backing of the FED and treasury. Physical default in progress.
Don't forget that the paper price for PM's doesn't matter, revaluing will occur only after they decouple.
The open interest in silver is so absurd, the battle to get those longs to bail out is at hand.
They're goin for it, this is it. We might see some shocking price action if they don't capitulate.
Silver must Die! <--Bankers
Yes, it is a complete disgrace.
I'll never sell based on a paper price that's for sure. How far can the price for paper and physical widen before someone starts demanding delivery for contracts? Or is demanding delivery not an option for options anymore?
Wow- 20,000 to 80,000 contracts dumped each minute. Somebody's panicking out there, but it isn't us.
I wouldn't sell a speck right now. Neither will the chinks. fuck Jamie.
edit: Dow down 137 and JPM stock down $1.53. There's your answer, boys.
They are making sure everyone gets boinked, like they are.
16.05 Brussels time according to netdania eur/usd -0,92 gold - 1,18
so what's the big deal ?
all paper mass
If this is being manipulated by the Banksters (..as oppose to being manipulated by the CCP) surely they're shooting themselves in the foot? Cheaper gold means China and Russia (and Khazakstan apparently!) can keep adding it to their reserves in huge quantities, and get rid of their dollars, a few months down the line the Chinese reveal their gold reserves and call the U.S. out (I've shown you mine, now let's see yours?) Someone, I doubt China (although it would be nice) will say "O.K. we're backing OUR currency with gold, suddenly everyone wants IN on that currency (Yuan, Ruble...Drachma!) and out of the petrodollar.
And the 'Exceptional' ones pee into their pants a little bit.
All those clowns with ETF's in gold try to put their hands on the 'Colour' only to be told "We aint got none, sorry." And the price of gold rockets, as does the recent currency that has been backed by gold.
I might be missing something here, I'm not an economist (No shit, I hear you say) but I am a small business owner with a stack of gold and LOTS of Yuan (rmb)
Feel free to correct me (Like I need to tell the ZH crowd THAT!)
One can only learn from their mistakes.
Let's not forget who bought JP Morgan's headquarters a couple of years ago for pennies on the dollar, the one with the largest gold vault in the world and a tunnel connected to the NYFED. You know, the one's who are colluding to keep the price down so that they can get the most metal possible for their increasingly-worthless t-bills and $s. Nobody benefits from an all-out collapse, yet.
Mmm, true. But just because it's got the largest gold vault in the world doesn't mean it's got gold in it. I have a huge closet in my bedroom, there's very little clothes in it though.
Whether there's anything in that vault or not is irrelevant and couldn't be farther from the point.
Go ahead and buy gold and silver. I'm taking my money and buying a big steak.
You'd be better off with a pregnant cow.
When things get bad, you have to lie. And the price of Gold and Silver today. IS A BIG FUCKING LIE !!