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New Greek FinMin Arrives In Belgium "Empty-Handed", Will Submit New Proposal "Maybe" On Wednesday
At this point it is unclear who wants Grexit more: the ECB or Greece.
With today's Eurogroup conference called explicitly to discuss a "new" Greek proposal moments ago we learned that the Greek delegation arrived at a meeting of finance ministers without a fresh proposal to secure its place in the eurozone. As a reminder, according to the FT, this was Greece's "final chance to present a new reform plan to its eurozone partners" even though their willingness to accommodate it has all but evaporated following Greece’s emphatic rejection of previous bailout terms in Sunday’s referendum.
So what is Greece's plan? Reuters reports that "Greece will submit a new aid proposal to European creditors "maybe" on Wednesday, a senior eurozone official said, with Athens' European partners convening in Brussels for emergency talks. "They say they will submit a new request and outline of proposals maybe tomorrow."
In other words, the bluffing past the deadline tactics adopted by Varoufakis remain. The question is whether Greece has any time left at this point. As a reminder, yesterday we reported that according to a Balyasny managing direct, "We now have another 48 hours of calm before things really start happening", adding that the "situation could then break down as banks stay closed, ATMs will run out of cash Tuesday or Wednesday, uncertainty grows and rioting possible."
So even if Greece cobbles some last minute deal together, one which will likely be prohibitive and have even more adverse terms resulting in public anger, many wonder: is it far too late now?
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If Greece ends-up dropping the Euro, they should back the new currency with something tangible, like sea water, for example.
None of the world currencies have even THAT! ;-)
Looney
Can we all just agree that a monopoly on violence isn't the solution to this problem?
" oh look, a greek tourist "
Eucld needs a glass of beer and a hot party bitch tonight. Draghi and GS will send these amenities over immediately.
So, that begs the question. What does it even mean to default?
As all things continue as they were. since before the 'default'.
I would say they are out....you show up at the meeting just for the free donuts and coffee....what a joke....and you are the headliner.....send em to Hell EU....in a year they will know what it means to be broke and a Socialist....
Socialist and broke. So pretty much in line with most of Europe.
Have you been to the United States lately?
Greece will not bring an offer till Merkel is replaced at the negotiating table. No room for fraudsters in negotiations.
Oh and by the way Tsipras bringing reps for Spain, Portugal and Italy. Need to make more room at the table for the oppressed.
Varoufakis still active behind the scenes no doubt.
Greeks must think they have the stronger hand to keep on playing this game in this situation. Amazing they went just for the coffee.
Their nuclear card is total default??
Entering the EuroGroup Meeting:
apparently the greek Euc'onometry is different from the german one
Lol...i think the Greeks at this point don't give a shit.
would love to know who paid for the airfare for this greek Finance minister....????
Europe has a nuclear financial option that enables it to kick out Greece without losing a single Euro: http://www.atlanticperspective.com/home/europe-has-a-financial-nuclear-option-that-nullifies-the-greek-blackmail
"we can just print away this problem"
seriously?? what moron actually belives that?
if the EuIdiots think they can just print up greece's deficit and call it good they've got another thing coming
Everybody wants to go the party. Nobody wants to stay and clean up. Party's over Greece.
"If necessary, we will issue parallel liquidity and California-style IOU's, in an electronic form. We should have done it a week ago," said Yanis Varoufakis, the finance minister.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11719688/Defiant-Greeks-reject-EU-demands-as-Syriza-readies-IOU-currency.html
No deal before periphery eurobonds sell off
Military junta = automatic exit
“Some players in the financial markets are taking the emerging tale of decline a little further. The UK's Daily Telegraph is reporting a joke that has been going around in financial circles, and apparently in the British Cabinet as well: If a military junta came to power in Greece through a coup, it would be rather a good thing, because military juntas are not allowed in the EU.
And Forbes, not just any little tattler in the financial community, is opening the floodgates a little wider: “What’s so sad, or bitter if you prefer, about the joke is that, if we ignore the little problem of it being a military dictatorship, this would in fact be a good solution to Greek woes."
http://www.voxeurop.eu/en/content/article/1128541-democracy-has-junk-status
Best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship.
Socialist and broke. So pretty much in line with most of Europe
Hmmm Scandinavia? Are they broke?
Actually it is rents in any form. Rents are a form of "free lunch" that shifts the productivity from those who work and earned it, to those who don't work.
Socialism can strip rents from Oligarchy using politics, and then redistribute. Usually you need a single ethnic population for this to work, like in Scandinavia.
Socialism in a multi culti country usually ends up favoring a special class over everybody else (Jewry?). Politics are used to vector away from the productive to the unproductive, an inversion.
Rents can be taxed away in a non socialist way; rents in the monetary realm, are especially a free lunch that is hidden in prices. For example, compounding usury for credit as money is an especially odious rental technique, and is at the core of the Greek tragicomedy.
Rolling over debt instruments makes the usury go exponential...it is math and inexorable. Also, vectoring flows of credit through Greek money supply such that it has no latencey, it simply shoots through their money supply, and then pays off foreign bond holders, is odius debt. The debt hook is set on the whole population, and the debts mirrror - the credit- never lands in Greek supply to be used. This creation of credit money to favor one group (Oligarchs and Bond Holding Banks) and disfavor another (Greek Labor/ People) is a rent scheme.
So, it isn't socialism - it is parasitic rents in all the various guises. The earth is productive, it is just that there is a class of man who wants something for nothing. There are producers and there are parasites.
Any system that cannot root out the parasite is doomed to fail.
Hmmm, is Scandinavia broke?
Not yet, thanks only to North Sea oil and gas.
However, as oil prices plummet and the global oil glut continues, the socialist welfare countries of Scandinavia are experiencing budget deficits and are cutting interest rates in response.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/denmark-budget-idUSL5N0QW1CQ20...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-26/danish-budget-deficit-...
http://boereport.com/2014/12/11/poor-economy-low-oil-prices-cause-norway...
http://www.fierceenergy.com/story/falling-oil-prices-slow-economic-recov...
You are wrong. Most of the countries that were in the Warsaw Pact were socialist. They had homogeneous populations and life there sucked.
I was born there and have first hand experience.
Scandinavian countries are still socialism light, and they are going to be turned to crap soon enough.
It comes down to the fact that you cannot spend more than your income.
You cannot tax production to the point that producers determine that the effort is justified no longer.
You cannot have government take over industry because without a profit motive production will suffer.
It is just simply a case of human nature. Ideals are great but reality will always triumph.
You are right about the need to root out parasites.
Warsaw pact was an inversion. Communism is a vertical pyramid of political power. It is a super oligarchy.
Countries can also have vertical pyramids of money power, only it is hidden. The West is now a pyramid scheme run by markets to take rents. In both cases it is a theft mechansim where the producers are harvested to pay non producers.
It should be clear as daylight by now to any non biased observer, that the "money power" or finance is harvesting; when in fact finance produces nothing.
Let's see: North Sea Oil.
Britain had that too, and they squandered it. Norway used theirs properly and they now have a sovereign fund. Norway got rich: Britain and their "market" economy wasted their gifts.
This is totally hilarious on a certain level.
Austerity? Well fuck that shit. No more of that bitchchez....
Last ditch meeting before the ATM's run dry? The dog eat my proposal, but if we can round up some blow we'll pull an all nighter and maybe get you some scratch tomorrow.
Can you loan me a few bucks to cover dinner? The FinMin expense account check bounced and you know how it is right bro? Thanks, peel off a few more those Euro 50 notes - yeah, baby. I'll pay you back in Drachma ha, ha, ha.
Government belongs in inelastic markets; they are the most efficient producer there. Rents are taken by monopolists in the private domain, where they want to put toll booths on what belongs to everybody i.e. the commons.
Rents are also taken by parasties who work their way into government and then use the law to feather their nest.
Face it- man is a rent seeker, and a certain class of man will lie and manipulate to get his way, or for his group.
There have been good forms of government in the past, only they have been wiped from Western conscious. For example, Hungary had a constitutional monarchy that lasted almost 1000 years. The monarch was elected and their system prevented the popular will from being thwarted:. It also prevented special interests from trying to take over and become rentiers.
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/Trianon_ch3.htm