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Greece Caves, Formally Requests ESM Bailout: Full Headline And Next Steps Summary
As we reported yesterday, following the latest European leaders summit, Greece was given until the end of the week to come up with a proposal for sweeping reforms in return for loans that will keep the country from crashing out of Europe's currency bloc and into economic ruin.
"The stark reality is that we have only five days left ... Until now I have avoided talking about deadlines, but tonight I have to say loud and clear that the final deadline ends this week," European Council President Donald Tusk told a news conference.
It did that moments ago when Greece officially submitted a request for a three-year loan facility from the European Stability Mechanism also promising to implement tax reform, and pension measures at the beginning of next week, which had been the biggest sticking point in negotiations for the past 5 months. And to think Syriza's main election promise was no more bailouts and the Greek people resoundly said not to just this over the weekend.
As Bloomberg reports, the loan will be used to meet Greece’s debt obligations, and to ensure financial system stability. Greece proposed immediate implementation of measures, including tax, pension reforms as early as next week. Govt to detail its proposals for specific reform agenda on July 9 at latest or tomorrow.
More details from the WSJ:
Greece formally requested a three-year bailout from the eurozone’s rescue fund Wednesday and pledged to start implementing some of the overhauls demanded by creditors by early next week, according to a copy of the request seen by The Wall Street Journal.
Crucially for Greece’s creditors, the letter says the government would start implementing some measures, including on taxation and pensions, by the beginning of next week, though it doesn’t go into details.
The letter is a first step toward fulfilling a demand by international creditors, who have given Athens until Sunday to come up with tougher measures they would impose in return for desperately needed financing that could keep the country from bankruptcy and even worse economic turmoil.
The full list of overhauls and budget cuts is what will determine whether the application for a new rescue program will be approved by the rest of the eurozone. The currency union’s leaders said Tuesday they would assess whether it makes sense to start formal negotiations on a bailout program at an emergency summit on Sunday.
In other words, and as expected, Greece has essentially capitulated to Troika demands which will come with far harsher terms and even more austerity, just to keep the myth that Greece is an "equal member" in the Eurozone, yet virtually all the proceeds will go back to repaying the ECB, the IMF and other official taxpayer-backed European creditors as well as the occasional private holdout creditor.
This is all happening as Tsipras is currently talking in the Euro parliament, where he is trying to strike a far more cooperative tone now the only Greek hope is that it is not too late for Europe to accept any offer Greece will propose, oblivious of the referendum.
Earlier he submited the following statement after the Eurozone summit.
Here are some of his speech highlights via Reuters:
Thank you for the invitation-& honor-to address the elected representatives of peoples of Europe.
The Greek people's brave choice in conditions of unprecedented pressure, does not mean a break w/Europe.
My country was used to experiment with austerity. The experiment, we must admit, failed.
The majority of Greek people feel that there is no other choice but to stop treading this road to nowhere.
Our proposal to the institutions includes: credible reforms based on a fair sharing of burdens.
It includes the adequate coverage of the country's financial needs.
It includes a strong investment program, primarily for combating unemployment and encouraging entrepreneurship.
It includes a commitment to begin a sincere discussion regarding a solution to problem of sustainability of Greece's public debt.
Our proposals for financing our obligations & restructuring our debt will not burden European taxpayers.
I'm not one of those politicians who claim that foreigners are to blame for all of Greece's woes.
Previous governments created clientelistic state, furthered corruption & strengthened ties to economic elite.
Our proposals focus on reforms that aim to change #Greece, reforms that the Memoranda purposely did not include.
Now, must reach a viable & honest compromise, one that will avoid a historical break & goes against EU tradition.
And I am sure that we're all aware of-& we'll all take into account-our historic responsibility. Thank you.
It is unclear if Tsipras has converted the Syriza hard cores to his camp just days aftter the critical Greek "Oxi" referendum passed on a landslide, but at least one MEP was convinced:
All of us, urgently, by Sunday, have to do what needs to be done, whatever it takes, as Mr. Draghi says, so we see the word Grexit wiped out of EU vocabulary for ever.
- Dimitrios Papadimoulis, MEP FROM TSIPRAS'S SYRIZA PARTY
But others were not easily fooled:
So if this piece de theatre continues I think we will be more and more confused about who and what we are trying to save. Are we trying to save the currency union, Greek society, the credibility of the government, the creditors, the reputation of Angela Merkel, or the infallibility of ever closer-union?
We certainly cannot save all of these. There will be some casualties.
- Ryszard Legutko, MEP FROM CONSERVATIVE GROUP ECR
In any event, the latest Greek crisis, if only for the time being, is likely about to close this weekend. Will the can be kicked for 3 years or will the Greek people confirm they have had enough and rebel from under Tsipras, we will hopefully find out shorly.
In the meantime, here is the recap of all the key Greek headlines and events in the past several hours from Reuters and Bloomberg...
- 1147 - German finance ministry spokesman rejects measures that reduce the current value of Greek debt such as debt reprofiling
- 1139 - European Banking Authority says remains vigilant but markets coping well so far with Greek uncertainty
- 1130 - Greece proposes to implement as early as next week tax and pension reform measures, letter shows
- 1125 - Greece requested a three-year loan from the European Stability Mechanism bailout fund but didn't specify volume of financing sought, a euro zone source tells Reuters
- 1125 - European Council President Donald Tusk says without unity on Greece we will in four days wake up in a different Europe
- 1122 - If Greece and its creditors don't agree by Sunday to start talks on third bailout, it will be necessary to think about other options, a spokesman for the German finance ministry says
- 1117 - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras tells EU Parliament he will come up with very specific proposals on Thursday
- 1015 - Technical experts will review Greece's request for an ESM loan on Wednesday but there will be no conference call among euro zone ministers, a spokesman says
- 0956 - Russia is not in a position to help solve the Greek debt crisis, and the EU should resolve it on its on, the chief executive of Russia's second largest bank VTB says
- 0947 - Greece lodges formal request for bailout loan with the euro zone's special support fund, a spokesman for the European Stability Mechanism says
- 0920 - European Central Bank Governing Council member Ewald Nowotny says hard to imagine that ECB council could increase emergency liquidity for Greece
- 0904 - Bank of Italy and ECB member Ignazio Visco says ECB will will do what it can to contain financial and economic consequences of Greek crisis.
- 0903 - Greece successfully rolls over T-bills to refinance a maturing six-month issue
- 0820 - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras tells European Parliament says will present details proposal to EU in next 2-3 days.
- 0812 - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras tells European Parliament the referendum gave him a mandate to find a socially just and economically sustainable solution to end the crisis.
- 0747 - EU Economics Commissioner Pierre Moscovici tells BBC radio an agreement between Greece and its euro zone partners is still possible.
JULY 7
- 2347 - Euro zone members give Greece until the end of the week to come up with a proposal for sweeping reforms in return for loans
- 2135 - Merkel says she hopes to have sufficient reform proposals from Greece this week to be able to ask the German parliament to approve negotiations on a new long-term aid programme for Athens. If the reform list was adequate and Greece took some prior actions to enact first measures, she says she is sure that short-term finance can be provided to help Athens over its immediate funding needs.
- 2030 - Austria's finance minister says Greece's request for financial aid from the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) is so far very vague.
- 2020 - Summit over; Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi says a final meeting on Greece, involving all 28 EU leaders, will take place on Sunday.
- 1932 - Greek banks could start to run out of cash over the next two days if creditors do not agree to a new aid deal, two sources familiar with the country's financial system say.
.... and here are the key catalysts in the coming days.
- July 8: Greece scheduled to submit request for a bailout agreement to the European Stability Mechanism
- Euro area finance ministers may hold a conference call to assess Greece’s request for a new program * European Central Bank Governing Council will review liquidity situation of Greek lenders
- Greek bank holiday, capital controls decree expires; government set to renew it
- July 9: Greece must submit its reform agenda, which will be assessed by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Results will be given to the Eurogroup, which will hold another call to discuss the new proposals
- July 10: Greece needs to refinance EU2b in t-bills
- July 11: Euro-area finance ministers will meet in Brussels
- July 12: Euro-area and EU leaders will hold meetings to discuss the results of Greece’s expected comprehensive reform agenda
»
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by now any insider knows for sure if greece is serious about leaving the euro or just bluffing
because if greeks were serious they would have already had tons of drachmas printed and stored someplace
I'll need to double check....but I think I won the pool.
Greeks... still caving and slaving.
yawn.....there is no bailout. all for show. the people of greece have spoken. i cant believe "they" have been able to keep up this charade.
the people of greece doesn't matter
seriously, what the fuck was the vote all about?
This is all bullshit.... The plane crash in SC means
"28 days... 6 hours... 42 minutes... 12 seconds. That... is when the world... will end."
I thought everyone knew this......
Greece Is Screwed And So Is The Rest Of The World
What did I tell you! Well done Greece! This is the right and sensible decision. You will not regret this. Those who followed my advise and loaded up on Greek bonds prior to this temporary scare will be richly rewarded. It amazes me that the ZH community passes up spectacular opportunities like this over and over again. Do you people like losing money, or are you just financially incompetent?
JUST ... DON'T. OK?
Euro's bitch.
Gretchez!
Don't get me wrong - I think Syriza's socialist policies are exactly what Greece needs to rebuild its economy.The Greek people have learnt exactly the right lesson from this disaster - excessive capitalism and an unregulated free market creates wealth inequality and ultimately economic and social disasters. However, the issue I have with leaving the EU is that socialism needs money to get started. The Bolshevisk borrowed many millions of dollars from the western banking system to start the Soviet Union, whereas other socialist countries have raised funds from the sale of government owned natural resources. The lesson is, socialism works, but you need a lot of capital to get it started. This is very important - if you don't have money from outside the socialist system, it won't work.
Edit : "The lesson is, socialism works, but you need a lot of capital to get it started, it stops working as soon as that capital is depleted"
kiss my ring
hugs,
angela
Haha and so the circus continues!
I wonder if the Greeks have any concept of "no taxation without representation" because after that referendum, even the most braindead socialist should understand what just happened.
(Not that we have any concept of that here in 'Murica either, but hey)
Bankrupt: any insolvent debtor; a person unable to satisfy any just claims made upon him or her
So what was it all about? What a waste of time and space and with NOTHING achieved. Unless, of course, that viisit by Nuland produced the desired effexts of worrying about 1) The longevity of his family, 2) His own longevity, 3) The brakes on his car and the fear of standing on tall buldings?
Tyler, you do not know yet anything what Tsipras proposed, yet you claim that he succumbed. WTF?!
Gosh, and just two days ago when everyone here was so thrilled about "Greek democacy in action" I said "fuck the Greeks, let those lazy bastards AND the banks/governments that loaned them money rot" and was massively downvoted.
XOI
We get to see the Keynesian endgame in action. It's a real treat :-)
MDB, You can't believe your own blather. Worst Troll attempt I have ever seen. You have to work in academia, only place someone as dumb as this could survive.
He's a paid sill.
Put a "/s" behind his posts, and all will become clear.
its fucking satire, people. come on. pretty damn funny if you ask me
I love it when people don't "get" MDB_
Reread what he wrote. You've been expertly trolled!
Euro's bitch? I think it's the other way around. Greece will get the $$ and do nothing. Same old shit.
Kind of like Wimpy saying he will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. All lies.
Greece can't be allowed to break away because the entire EU would unravel and other dominoes would start to fall. Much cheaper and less trouble to just pay them off.
I agree, except other countries are watching to see what the consequences are, and this whole thing is deteriorating. Consequences haven't been implemented. The EU is on life support.
How about a German referendum...
Same question as the Greek charade...
Same answer too no doubt.
Outcome...the banksters win.
If you're so busy making money, why take the time and trouble to keep posting your precious thoughts here? We're just the little people.
Because he's a prick.
you're back!
what are your thoughts on the chinese bubble?
I think the lesson from the recent Chinese equity sell-off is that diversification is key. Everyone should invest their money in a well diversified portfolio that includes a heavy weighting of US treasuries because of their safe-haven status. I'm also surprised that anyone would choose to invest heavily in the Chinese stock market when the US stock market has been showing such excellent returns. We're also at the very beggining of an economic recovery, which is historically a very smart time to buy.
LOL. Good one.
excellent, excellent, and with profitability near its all-time high, how do you think corporate america can improve, given historical mean?
I believe there are many opportunities for companies to exploit the social media revolution, as smart phone and tablet usage continues to rise globally. Some estimates predict smart phone ownerwhip to reach 2 Billion people by 2016, which will connect a staggering number of people to the modern economy. All of this spells opportunity for multinationals who will be looking to exploit new internet and mobile marketing channels to improve their bottom lines.
I also see global spending increasing as the consumer gains more confidence and governments align their fiscal policy with spending targets. This will also profoundly improve corporate profits.
7 years, untold trillions, and monsterous manipulations and we have just reached "the very beggining of an economic recovery". If you open up your front door, you may hear my epic laughter from the other side of the planet.
You're even dumber than the religious fanatics that keep posting on ZH.
Ever heard of debt you bloody dill?
Ever thought for a moment that the purported recovery is a function of expanding debt and nothing else?
Do you understand the exponential function and the absolute impossibility for any system whether it be financial or biologicol to maintain any on going level of growth?
DEBT.
LOWER INTEREST RATES.
MORE DEBT.
EVEN LOWER INTEREST RATES.
EVEN MORE DEBT.
BANKERS PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER AND WRITE TRILLIONS IN DERIVATIVES BECUSE INTEREST RATES NEVER GO UP.
FUCKING BOOM - END OF THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM AS WE KNOW IT.
@MDB - keep em coming :-)
Which tripla-alphabet agency runs the MDB bot anyway?
It's sarcasm, thanks MDB.
Yes. When you owe, you owe. Seems no way off the hook for Greece. So sit and think about that, and you have to wonder how or why it would work out differently for any other country that lands there. The 108 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities in the US comes to mind. And when the system crashes, which it surely will, the US population will find out that the FDIC insures the banks first via the taxpayer, and the little guys last, meaning they will get nothing. Remember the legislation Congress got paid to inject into the paperwork when they passed the last budget? Another 45 trillion or so of bank derivatives are now FDIC insured. They get paid before the 7 trillion or so on deposit by citizens. And the account balance the FDIC has to make the payments? Only about 65 billion or so. This means that the future generations of the US will live in perpetual slavery, paying off 150 trillion or so in debt. It's another way to make the rich richer and be in more control: make the poor poorer. It's the most heinous crime perpetrated in human history, and absolutely has to end in bloodshed and death at some point for millions and millions of people.
Yes silverer . . . exactly!
Bought-and-paid-for politicians snuck it into a Christmas Holidays piece of "routine" legislation -- and it was written by who? Citi Lobbyists, I think.
The fact they snuck it in, when they did, and how they did, proves the politicians know what they're doing. They're just going to keep sucking that "lobbyist" teat as long as they can and then point the finger at everyone else in a circle. Democat-Republican has been nothing but professional wrestling for decades!
Sadly, most non-ZH readers have no clue what shape this county is really in. All shiny and brightly painted red-white-blue on the outside and rusted through underneath.
No wonder TPTB want as many of us divided as much as possible: blame the Democrats-Republicans, whites-blacks-browns, men-women, Christians-Muslims-Jews-Atheists, young-old, rich-poor, etc.
"It's the most heinous crime perpetrated in human history, and absolutely has to end in bloodshed and death at some point for millions and millions of people."
More like billions. There are billions of people living on one dollar a day, and billions more living on two. When even that paltry amount vanishes into worthlessness, the culling will be an extinction level event.
a Greek referendum is supposed to bind the Greek government, not the others
but the referendum was about Yes/No for an earlier, and retracted offer
no, Tyler, Greece is still a peer of the eurozone (and the EU). but interestingly the Greek Tsipras Cabinet has hardened the stance of practically all peers
so much for Varoufakis and his Game Theory, more useful for a different kind of conflict then this one
anyway, it's not over until the Greek Parliament has voted on it
It looks like you are proud of your kleptokratic bankster led Europe. One where unelected banksters control the little people.
proud? the issue here is that we use the same word for bankers and central bankers
but if you take the FED as a template, it is natural to think that they are the same caste of "monetary priests"
if that would be true for the whole planet, we would not be in the middle of a currency war
the eurozone is a monetary alliance of 19 sovereign countries, with a fiscal pact among them
if you read carefully this last sentence... we might find common ground for a discussion. If not, there is no common ground and it's all "rah, rah, rah, them banksters rah, rah"
Does that fiscal pact include printing money,inflation, negative interest rates, and placing technocratic govts in place?
REally, Gordo?
really, Bank_sters?
where is the price inflation here in the eurozone? is that "money printing" in the scale of what the FED and the Chinese national bank are doing?
we still have a currency war going on, with the US and China battling for monetary dominance, and that includes rates
last time we had a rate differential from the US, money market "managers" from the US flooded the eurozone with hot money from Granny's account, including derivative deals that produced the "And it's gone" from South Park
we had plenty of "technical" governments before the eurozone and the EUR, and we will continue to have this by-product of parliamentarism
tell me, is the Tsipras Cabinet a "technocratic" one?
at a certain point, the fog of propaganda should hit the realities. soon we'll be there, methinks
Ghordius, we all feel your desperation..buck up and count your gold and silver. oh and say high to your secretary..she hasn't posted in a while. lol, good luck we all are in need of same.
In order to protect the legitmacy of money printing and capital theft, you must pay us back every dollar we printed so we may pay back the banks who dine on your poor.
Mario Draghi, Christine Lagarde and Jean Claude Junker.
your use of "dollars" instead of euros just reminds me when in order to protect the legitimacy of the dollar... it's gold backing was closed. damn those French warships in the NY harbour
who was shocked, then? as a reminder, the denizens of the core dollarzone were not even allowed to hold shiny metal
"sovereign countries" -Dream again.
define sovereignty. if it is utter and complete power over practically everything, then this planet only had one truly sovereign country in history, and that era is gone
but if you define sovereignty in the more common and historic sense, then yes, have a look at the armies those sovereigns have
as a reminder, the Greek army is not having it's budget cut too much. history, either you know it a bit or you are damned to repeat plenty of mistakes
Damn G, your getting your ass kicked because your arguments are nothing more than minced words and frustration.
Keep this in mind: money holds no alligiance to any nation.
AND, there it is. It is that simple.
The entire world has been plunged into delusion - not by any one group, but the interaction of so many actors (individual, corporate, government, etc.) all operating out of greed. Now, there are no good solutions. We are in overshoot in more than one way. There is only pain ahead. And no one is going to vote for it. So, it will come as a result of uncontrollable failure.
There will soon be a point where the people literately will break out the torches and pitchforks.
It's the only way, the debt is unsustainable...
that's absolute rhetoric, doublespeak, and nothing short of lying to the electorate, and the Greek government knows it, and I suspect the voters, too, very shortly.
i was a bit on the fence about it, but it's clear that ambrose evens-pritchard's telegraph article was right on the money, when he said it was expected to go the other way.
following on - i guess the media will be shocked, SHOCKED, i tell you, when the neo-nazis and communists double their percentages of the vote at next election.
as I wrote before, the Greek Parliament has still to vote on it, doesn't it? that's where the truth or the lies will come up, for all Greeks to hear in their language
I recall a famous quote about voting... that if it mattered, it would be made illegal. I also recall someone important talking about how when things get really bad you have to lie.
Eventually, the people will speak. So will the markets. Manipulations cannot go on forever. They always fail. The question is if it is today. I suspect not.
... and be able to do nothing about it.
If it depends on a Pariamentary vote, there was no need for the referrendum. Tsipras himself said he expected to lose that vote. Oddly enough, he "won", if you can call that winning since he has to do the same thing he would have done if the people had voted 'yes'.
If the Greek Parliament rejects the bailout, too, I'll bet you 20 Euros you'll be on here saying how it doesn't matter how the Parliament voted becuase it's really up to the Troika or the EU. And what really kills me is that you WILL AGAIN BE RIGHT. Seeing and hearing the truth of their own leadership or the EU leadership is IRRELEVANT. No Greek has any say in this any more- not the people, not their government. And they never did, unless they were ready to take the plunge and leave the Euro.
PLEASE STOP with this "the next vote is the one that counts" crap. It's BULLSHIT. The only vote that counts happened years ago and it's results are binding to this day.
sure. because balancing a damn budget is beyond anybody, be it people or government? you did some strange things in this reply, btw
I presume too much
you DO presume too much.
how the hell can one balance his budget when such a great percentage is skimmed off the top?
that's all the Euro is, is a skim, just like the federal reserve is nothing but a skimming scamming operation by the banks.
so you're telling us all, "just deal with the skim, you can still balance your budget"
are you on crack?
How is this new agreed offer better than the previous rejected one? The people want to know.
are you suggesting a vote? :)
"As Bloomberg reports, the loan will be used to meet Greece’s debt obligations, and to ensure financial system stability." Stew on that one for a minute. That was my favorite line. It has EVERYTHING- bloomberg, loan to meet debt obligations, greece and ensure financial stability. BRILLIANT! only statists could devise such a brilliant plan.
yep. a three year bailout plan, with will entail BORROWING more money to meet the interst payments on previous borrowed funds, for THREE MOAR FUCKING YEARS. they can't meet the obligations they already have, so borrowing moar money is going to fix it?
nice attempt at kicking the can. Although if you are one of the people in charge of greece, I suppose anything that postpones them swinging from a lamppost when all of this inevitably comes apart is worth it.
They are "borrowing" more protection money-but most of it is going right back to the banks........so whats the point-they are only deeper in debt
The people of the United States have the same thing happen when they get to choose between a Republican Liberal and A Democratic Liberal in the November elections.
Those two canndidates will have been picked(odds are they are already picked) before 1/4 of the voters have even voted in the primaries.
Just watch how many are driven out even before the first vote is cast.
It's Syriza that's caving, not the people. They told the Syriza and the government, in their own unmistable voice, not to do that. Until now the question has been whether banksters will take the consequences of their own bad business deals, or fob their losses off on the Greek people. Now the question is whether or not the "democratically elected" government of the birthplace of democracy is beholden to banksters or to its own people.
At root it's about market fundamentals and the real economy of production, versus rob Peter to pay Paul gankster/bankster capitalism. Capitalism is viable to the extent it relies on the former. But the robbers are coming to the fore, not just in Greece, not just in Europe, but in the United States, in China, everywhere. It is a historical matter.
Baaa baaa motherfuckers. Now back in the corral.
...so close, yet so far.....
ForePlay......................is over.....................now it begins
same as it ever was...rinse, repeat, Varis for PM
"Pull your pants down Tsipras and bend over" Merkel says as she straps on a 12" dildo, "I am going to show you what "greek" really feels like."
I have not yet begun to fight......er......cave. Plenty more chess moves left until checkmate.
I think we are putting the pieces back in the box at this point.
Bluffing.
Dear Tsipras,
If you really want to stick it to them (and use it for bargining) just relese the OTC that Greece signed that were presented to them by a seller named Mario D. That'll make good headlines.
Let that be a lesson to all others that seeks a write-off on their unpayable debt. The banksters win as usual.
Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy and France will remain serfs for a long, long time. Not to mention, all those in debt in the land of the free, especially those with student loans
Rest assured that the debt will be written off but not before the Greek people and its government have made the common sense changes to the way they operate and the even more necessary adjustments to their expectations which are out of kilter with their productive means and resources.
Is that supposed to mean ... NEVER? I don't have any indication that there is such will over here, neither in the people nor in any government, past or present. And a few more months or years of dragging along like this, might turn the popular mind in a totally unexpected direction.
skistroni, why never? plenty of Greeks in the Diaspora all over the world that have no issues with some aspects of what Greece would need according to "Peter Pan"
They don't vote.
well, that's another thing I would change if I was leading a Greek Cabinet. for a small (but not too small) tax, I'd give them the vote
@skistroni,
Or pay taxes. They just plot coups:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/nulands-nemesis-will-greece-be-de...
Why write off the debt when you can take out a "loan to handle debt obligations" ??
Brilliant!
There is no shame in caving in as long as those paying for the caving in are those that have two or more pensions, those public servants that produce nothing, those politicians that have stolen or received bribes and those who have hidden or laundered monies in overseas accounts.
No shame in begging for money.
I saw a documentary on it where this chick does it in the morning....and then goes shopping in the afternoon.
… she tried it the other way ’round and it didn’t work.
So you lost your job to imports but your benevolent government has stepped in and subsidized you for ten years and you no longer have any marketable skills or will to work.
Now they tell you they are broke, have no more money to give unless the kiss the ring of the emperor.
WHAT DO YOU DO???
Bitch and moan an scream and then...
KISS THE FUCKING RING
murica! fuck yeah!
You were talking about murica right?
How large is Greece's FSA I wonder? What percent compared to Merika? Ours is pretty darn big...cause we're number 1.
Huh? They just did a poll on Sunday. The Greek FSA comprise 60% of the electorate.
Greece can't print and their credit line has been closed. Other than that, pretty much the same. Change for the better only occurs after all other options have failed. We still have a ways to go.
So are the downvoters saying that those that have stolen or taken a disproportionate percentage of the nation's wealth should continue to do so?
Downvoters are playing their book. They want GRexit NOW, salivating after having seen the moves of Gold on the last 2 Monday mornings. They don't think rationally. The ZH coverage of Greece and the commenters' general attitude in the last few months was initially surprising to me, until I remembered to re-read the (non) policy on conflicts/full disclosure (bottom of the right column). Then it all made sense.
Simply put, do you want your sovereignty back or not? Walking back into the penitentiary and picking up the soap bar every time it's dropped seems indicitave of one whose become conditioned to love his periodic ass reaming. But I forget, there's 'free' chow, medical, and you can hang out with the homies.
I downvoted your previous comment because, inter alia, you excluded the banksters from your list of those who should pay.
I downvoted your most recent comment above, because you give a fuck about downvotes.
There seems to be the mis-conception amongst ZHers that the greek government went into disingenuous negotiations with the ulterior motive of leaving the eurozone. That is not the case. They kept saying what they actually meant - that might come as a surprise to some people. And yes they do want a reformed, open and democratic EU, same as the rest anti-austerity movements. What is actually playing out is along the lines PCR outlines at: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/07/07/greece-eu-situation-paul-crai...
(Peter Pan I'm with you 100% re your last 2 posts)
Exccept for the welfare class, people must live off their earnings.
And the rentier class. They don't work either. But that is different, somehow...I guess.
Since the welfare class is now the majority, I would rather put it as "Except for those who actually work and produce something, people must live off others' money"
thought they would they cant allow those credit default swaps to trigger, he Tsipras has had a nice phone call from obummer, rather sink the greek people than go against the money junkies what a letdown for greece
Greeks pffft, bunch of pussies! Man up you weaklings and take back your goddamm country!
So what was the point of the referendum?
exactly
like i said before this is turning into a soap Opera "DALLAS" style
So what was the point of the referendum?
They screwed up.....they trusted them.
Tsipras' body language and cold sore told me all I need to know about his will. Someone told him in no uncertain terms, you are a dead motherfucker. So are your family.
I think that is what we call representative democracy and that is why real revolutionairies skip the negotiations and go right to war.
Makes more sense and it was expected. I believe they call that terminal leverage.
So Pam is going to step out of the shower and discover that Bobby really didn't die and this whole Grexit drama was all a dream? The whole bloody point of the referendum was to get a BETTER deal than the last. Somebody please send a memo to Tsipras before he signs the final(ha!) deal with the troika.
i thought the greeks agreed to buy chinese calls, no?
The point was to legitimize the compromise that Tsipras wasn't elected to make.
precisely, and he must have shit his pants when the election Sunday went horribly wrong for him.
precisely, and he must have shit his pants when the election Sunday went horribly wrong for him.
Tspiras has/had all the Political capital he needed to take Greece out of the Euro and maybe the EU .. but he's just as crocked as any other politician .. this is gonna end in a Revolution because no other means are available.
The only way Greece could have a chance at going it alone is if they were willing to be truly competitive and WORK. Their leadership understands that that has been killed (what little they may have had) and as such, their only choice is charity. Remember, they refused austerity, not free money. Only a fool refuses austerity if that is what is called for to survive.
The Greeks said NO.
The EU structure is the only source of charity as they are willing to do so to keep the union intact. Russia and China could have helped but they would have demanded more than just allegiance and capitulation.
Greece will promise all sorts of reforms, just like they have in years past. Who really thinks it will happen? This all theater for the public's consumption. The belief in the power of the union and the consequences of defiance.
What was the point of having a referendum? Absolutely nothing if you intend to fold and not follow the wishes of your electorate.
The wishes of their electorate is more free shit and the rest of the EU says 'Nyet'.
He has two choices, economic death or bow to reality.
You've answered your own question. The election was intended to give them political cover to fold, only it didn't work out as planned.
Wow talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Blackmail or threats in there somewhere or just more weasel gov puppets working for money changers?
Would you consider being forced out of the Euro to be a victory? "Good news everyonge - from this day forward, your pension will be paid in Drachmas!"
The economic situation on the ground in Greece is likely to precipitate the introduction of a parallel currency at this point. Greek banks have been closed for nearly two weeks; economic activity is slowing to a halt, tax revenues are almost non-existent, ATMs are on the verge of becoming depleted and bills are mounting.
And who will say NO to cash trucks from Brussels?
The letter Tsipras should have sent to Merkel, Tusk and Junker
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230325
Where is the back bone? "Nuts"
It's only in the movies that the people win, in real life banksters win, always.
Quisling.
But look on the good side, the DOW will grow to the moon today! You don't think this was a foregone conclusion, do you.?
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
Surely you meant 'grifts'.
Now we know why Varoufakis scooted.
About the referendum Citizens - fuck you - you voted wrong. Do you think you are Iceland or something?
Tsipras will be lucky if he makes it out of Greece without being killed by the people he betrayed. Of course, the criminal gang called Troika probably already threatened him with the same, if he didn't cooperate. When the day comes that politicians fear the people more than anything else, or there are no more politicians or others who call themselves government, there can be liberty,
At least he could have chosen to be a martyr for his OWN people not for international bankers.
If the previous scumbags escaped being lynched why shouldn't he?
Dead Man Walking--backwards....for the next few...
Maybe he should come to America and run as a Republican. They seem to be pretty tolerant of politicians that lie to win office and then lay down for the King.
or a Democrat. Simply two branches of the same Party, which benefits hugely from a far more philosopically dumbed down population than anywhere else on the planet.
Hey Greece, fight Ponzi with Ponzi! Print Euros, biatches!
Tsipras should put on a tie.
He may well still get one in the shape of a noose.
"the prospect of finally exiting the crisis"
HAHAHAHA that's a good one!
Bitch, it's only just begun.
One thing is quite evident, the Banksters still rule the world.
And there is nothing we can do about it.
I need to go rewatch that last scene in "Fight Club" again. Watching all those empty bank buildings go down always cheers me up at times like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytjN6Qa-Igg
"If your vote mattered, they'd make it illegal."
A post I remember from a while ago.
The waterboarding resumes. Lets go with Tyler this time ... for the final deadline. The Math of The Plan B is now clearer than ever. It is in progress - The Death of Capitalism.
Oligarchs - 1
Socialists - 0
Is there a time limit on this?
Hold on.....I'm thinking.
Hey, the score is closer to 89-0, and the fucking match doesn't ever seem to end!!!
Goes to prove that politians are scum no matter what country they are from.
Hillary and Michael Moore .... planning their next moves !
Russia .... vast forests .... no Charmin for Greek wipe out !