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Are Big Banks Using Derivatives To Suppress Bullion Prices?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Paul Craig Roberts and Dave Kranzler via PaulCraigRoberts.org,

We have explained on a number of occasions how the Federal Reserves’ agents, the bullion banks (principally JPMorganChase, HSBC, and Scotia) sell uncovered shorts (“naked shorts”) on the Comex (gold futures market) in order to drive down an otherwise rising price of gold. By dumping so many uncovered short contracts into the futures market, an artificial increase in “paper gold” is created, and this increase in supply drives down the price.

This manipulation works because the hedge funds, the main purchasers of the short contracts, do not intend to take delivery of the gold represented by the contracts, settling instead in cash. This means that the banks who sold the uncovered contracts are never at risk from their inability to cover contracts in gold. At any given time, the amount of gold represented by the paper gold contracts (“open interest’) can exceed the actual amount of physical gold available for delivery, a situation that does not occur in other futures markets.

In other words, the gold and silver futures markets are not a place where people buy and sell gold and silver. These markets are places where people speculate on price direction and where hedge funds use gold futures to hedge other bets according to the various mathematical formulas that they use. The fact that bullion prices are determined in this paper, speculative market, and not in real physical markets where people sell and acquire physical bullion, is the reason the bullion banks can drive down the price of gold and silver even though the demand for the physical metal is rising.

For example last Tuesday the US Mint announced that it was sold out of the American Eagle one ounce silver coin. It is a contradiction of the law of supply and demand that demand is high, supply is low, and the price is falling. Such an economic anomaly can only be explained by manipulation of prices in a market where supply can be created by printing paper contracts.

Obviously fraud and price manipulation is at work, but no heads roll. The Federal Reserve and US Treasury support this fraud and manipulation, because the suppression of precious metal prices protects the value and status of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency and prevents gold and silver from fulfilling their role as the transmission mechanism that warns of developing financial and economic troubles. The suppression of the rising gold price suppresses the warning signal and permits the continuation of financial market bubbles and Washington’s ability to impose sanctions on other world powers that are disadvantaged by not being a reserve currency.

It has come to our attention that over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives also play a role in price suppression and simultaneously serve to provide long positions for the bullion banks that disguise their manipulation of prices in the futures market.

OTC derivatives are privately structured contracts created by the secretive large banks. They are a paper, or derivative, form of an underlying financial instrument or commodity. Little is known about them. Brooksley Born, the head of the Commodity Futures Trading Corporation (CFTC) during the Clinton regime said, correctly, that the derivatives needed to be regulated. However, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, Treasury Secretary and Deputy Secretary Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers, and Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) chairman Arthur Levitt, all de facto agents of the big banks, convinced Congress to prevent the CFTC from regulating OTC derivatives.

The absence of regulation means that information is not available that would indicate the purposes for which the banks use these derivatives. When JPMorgan was investigated for its short silver position on Comex, the bank convinced the CFTC that its short position on Comex was a hedge against a long position via OTC derivatives. In other words, JPMorgan used its OTC derivatives to shield its attack on the silver price in the futures market.

During 2015 the attack on bullion prices has intensified, driving the prices lower than they have been for years. During the first quarter of this year there was a huge upward spike in the quantity of precious metal derivatives.

If these were long positions hedging the banks’ Comex shorts, why did the price of gold and silver decline?

More evidence of manipulation comes from the continuing fall in the prices of gold and silver as set in paper future markets, although demand for the physical metals continues to rise even to the point that the US Mint has run out of silver coins to sell. Uncertainties arising from the Greek No vote increase systemic uncertainty. The normal response would be rising, not falling, bullion prices.

The circumstantial evidence is that the unregulated OTC derivatives in gold and silver are not really hedges to short positions in Comex but are themselves structured as an additional attack on precious metal prices.

If this supposition is correct, it indicates that seven years of bailing out the big banks that control the Federal Reserve and US Treasury at the expense of the US economy has threatened the US dollar to the extent that the dollar must be protected at all cost, including US regulatory tolerance of illegal activity to suppress gold and silver prices.

 

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Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:33 | 6293291 Bank_sters
Bank_sters's picture

The filthy banksters have gotten away with everything- securities fraud, market manipulation, currency manipulation, money laundering, hft...  

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:33 | 6293293 Little Doll
Little Doll's picture

My best friend's ex-wife makes $75/hr on the laptop. She has been unemployed for eight months but last month her income with big fat bonus was over $15000 just working on the laptop for a few hours.Read more on this site... www.earnmore9.com

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:34 | 6293300 silverer
silverer's picture

Little Doll, big scam. 

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:38 | 6293309 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

The price is set in London where they trade 200 million oz spot every day.

It is a paper spot market fraud.

http://www.safehaven.com/article/36534/lbma-data-points-to-gold-and-silver-default

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:44 | 6293337 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

If this supposition is correct, it indicates that seven years of bailing out the big banks that control the Federal Reserve and US Treasury at the expense of the US economy has threatened the US dollar to the extent that the dollar must be protected at all cost, including US regulatory tolerance of illegal activity to suppress gold and silver prices.

 

Kranzler and Roberts are smart guys.  They aren't really just now coming around to the  gold and silver price suppression, prop up the dollar meme, are they? 


Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:54 | 6293388 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

supply and demand still set the price

as PCR points out, the demand is not for physical

hugs,
mark dice and a handful of chocolate bars

"you can't eat chocolate!" 

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:55 | 6293393 SafelyGraze
Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:26 | 6293496 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

And then I ask myself... do we really want these people to democratically select their idea of the best goverment for us?

Then I chuckle and assure myself that it really doesn't matter anyway...

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:46 | 6293564 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I thought Kyle Bass told us that there was no way near enough physical to cover paper gold. This would mean that they are simply printing gold to push "supply" up and prices down. On the other side we have stocks and with exception to splits or IPOs, they aren't making more, but companies are buying them up which decreases supply and with a little QE stimulus, pushes prices up. To me it all looks manipulated, but I'm sure they are only trying to make us all rich.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:48 | 6293569 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

You're walking on thin ice, Tyler...

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:37 | 6293866 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

As we used to say as kids - no der

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:59 | 6294169 Captain Debtcrash
Captain Debtcrash's picture

As shown in China, manipulation eventually always fails. Any manipulation of gold and silver will too. Those that say zero is the correct allocation to gold and silver these past weeks are using it as evidence that it doesn’t even serve as a safe haven, exactly what a manipulator would want.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:47 | 6294378 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Its A Dirty Stinking Putrid Trading World For GOLD SILVER And Now Also Most Other Commods...

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:39 | 6294613 ATM
ATM's picture

Use the price manipulation just like they do - BUY PHYZZ.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:54 | 6294702 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Need more proof? Right now the dollar is down over 1%, while gold is even. If there was no manipulation, gold would be up over 1%.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:41 | 6293876 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

I don't mind, just bought a bunch more copper gold silver and miners. I'll take delivery of gold and silver even if the price goes to zero.

In related news: GDX is about a dollar above making a new lifetime low. BTFD.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 04:32 | 6294072 Miggy
Miggy's picture

The demand is there all right. It's just the middle class has been blown up to the point where the ones who are not playing the game can't afford any (or much)

Those playing the game can't risk an audit. Not many a hedge fund willing to stick their neck out.

 

John 3:16

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:55 | 6293389 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

PCR has been talking about PM manipulation through naked shorts and other methods of controlling paper prices for a while, at least since i started reading his work 2/3 years ago.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:24 | 6293688 Bush Baby
Bush Baby's picture

So maybe the Chinese have the right idea

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:27 | 6293854 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

All you need to know is that Slv and Gld where created not to reflect the price but to control the price.

All the rest is just collateral bullshit.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:25 | 6293501 UnpatrioticHoarder
UnpatrioticHoarder's picture

Kranzler has been writing on gold manipulation for years

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:31 | 6293511 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Just a thought exercise... if gold and silver derivatives did not exist would the price of these PM's based on physical supply and demand be higher or lower?

Because when the derivatives markets collapse we are going to find out...

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:43 | 6294635 ATM
ATM's picture

If the derivative amount of gold and silver far exceeds the supply of physical gold and silver, what do you think?

It wil be th eperfect example of Exeter's Pyramid as the scramble to physical happens. And it will happen as all paper, counter-party backed systems eventually have a confidence crisis. 

Gold is the ultimate store of value. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:27 | 6293701 dirtscratcher
dirtscratcher's picture

 

Kranzler and Roberts are smart guys.  They aren't really just now coming around to the  gold and silver price suppression, prop up the dollar meme, are they?  ---bigdumbnugly

 

No. They've been pointing this out for years. This is just the latest episode of ongoing exposure of the fraud. It's just been getting a lot more obvious lately.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 02:47 | 6293968 Consuelo
Consuelo's picture

No - they aren't, but the key to this charade is ~rarely~ ever elucidated in the way that they have, and that you have just copied/pasted from the snippet.    Grampa Jim Sinclair has done good work here over the years in similar fashion, but you still don't see it spelled out in plain terms that often.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:06 | 6293815 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Do big banks use deriviatives to suppress bullion prices?"

Does a bear shit in the woods?  Is the Pope Catholic?

YES.  The banksters hate tangible assets and fair pay.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:17 | 6294288 e-recep
e-recep's picture

How about the iron ore prices? Are "they" (whoever they are) suppressing them, too?

The only thing that is being suppressed for such a long time is the interest rate. Everything else is still a trade. Manipulations don't last months, let alone years. Geez.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:56 | 6294405 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

Silver & gold are different than iron. They have been used as money for thousands of years. Iron is used in industry and is down because the economy is so bad.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:35 | 6293308 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

I make way more than that shorting Chinese stocks.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:10 | 6293454 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

That's a Capital crime in China.  Your days are numbered.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:46 | 6293352 GoldenDonuts
GoldenDonuts's picture

That's a cheap blowjob that she is handing look out.  Does he husband get the same deal?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:28 | 6293508 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

 

You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we
say in Texas, you couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions
printed on the heel. You are a canker, an open wound. I would rather
kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You took your last vacation in
the Islets of Langerhans.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a
cad, and a weasel. I take that back; you are a festering pustule on a
weasel's rump. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench,
a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.

I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same
species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at
the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut.
Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are
a weed, a fungus, the dregs of this earth. You are a technicolor yawn.
And did I mention that you smell?

You are a squeaking rat, a mistake of nature and a heavy-metal bagpipe
player. You were not born. You were hatched into an unwilling world
that rejects the likes of you. You didn't crawl out of a normal egg,
either, but rather a mutant maggot egg rejected by an evil scientist
as being below his low standards. Your alleged parents abandoned you
at birth and then died of shame in recognition of what they had done
to an unsuspecting world. They were a bit late.

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting
to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a
nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able
to access it ever so much more rapidly. If cluelessness were crude
oil, your scalp would be crawling with caribou.

You are a thick-headed trog. I have seen skeet with more sense than
you have. You are a few bricks short of a full load, a few cards short
of a full deck, a few bytes short of a full core dump, and a few
chromosomes short of a full human. Worse than that, you top-post. God
created houseflies, cockroaches, maggots, mosquitos, fleas, ticks,
slugs, leeches, and intestinal parasites, then he lowered his
standards and made you. I take it back; God didn't make you. You are
Satan's spawn. You are Evil beyond comprehension, half-living in the
slough of despair. You are the entropy which will claim us all. You
are a green-nostriled, crossed eyed, hairy-livered inbred
trout-defiler. You make Ebola look good.

You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid,
nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an
ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with
you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in
a land that reality forgot. You are not ANSI compliant and your markup
doesn't validate. You have a couple of address lines shorted together.
You should be promoted to Engineering Manager.

Do you really expect your delusional and incoherent ramblings to be
read? Everyone plonked you long ago. Do you fantasize that your
tantrums and conniption fits could possibly be worth the $0.000000001
worth of electricity used to send them? Your life is one big
W.O.M.B.A.T. and your future doesn't look promising either. We need to
trace your bloodline and terminate all siblings and cousins in order
to cleanse humanity of your polluted genes. The good news is that no
normal human would ever mate with you, so we won't have to go into the
sewers in search of your git.

You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and
obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living
emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a
loathsome disease, a drooling inbred cross-eyed toesucker. You make
Quakers shout and strike Pentecostals silent. You have a version 1.0
mind in a version 6.12 world. Your mother had to tie a pork chop
around your neck just to get your dog to play with you. You think
that is the name of a
rock band. You believe that P.D.Q. Bach is the greatest composer who
ever lived. You prefer L. Ron Hubbard to Larry Niven and Jerry
Pournelle. Hee-Haw is too deep for you. You would watch test patterns
all day if the other inmates would let you.

On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are
deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of
wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted.
Spammers look down on you. Phone sex operators hang up on you.
Telemarketers refuse to be seen in public with you. You are the source
of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.
May you choke on your own foolish opinions. You are a Pusillanimous
galactophage and you wear your sister's training bra. Don't bother
opening the door when you leave - you should be able to slime your
way out underneath. I hope that when you get home your mother runs
out from under the porch and bites you.

You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock.
You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted
boggish foot-licking half-twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You
gormless crook-pated tosser. You bloody churlish boil-brained clotpole
ponce. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You cockered
bum-bailey poofter. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You
dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill. May your
spouse be blessed with many bastards.

You are so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused yourself
in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field of horny
clues at the height of clue mating season, you still would not have a
clue. If you were a movie you would be a double feature;
_Battlefield_Earth_ and _Moron_Movies_II_. You would be out of focus.

You are a fiend and a sniveling coward, and you have bad breath. You
are the unholy spawn of a bandy-legged hobo and a syphilitic camel.
You wear strangely mismatched clothing with oddly placed stains. You
are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just knowing that
you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go
away. You are jetsam who dreams of becoming flotsam. You won't make
it. I beg for sweet death to come and remove me from a world which
became unbearable when you crawled out of a harpy's lair.

It is hard to believe how incredibly stupid you are. Stupid as a stone
that the other stones make fun of. So stupid that you have traveled
far beyond stupid as we know it and into a new dimension of stupid.
Meta-stupid. Stupid cubed. Trans-stupid stupid. Stupid collapsed to
a singularity where even the stupons have collapsed into stuponium.
Stupid so dense that no intelligence can escape. Singularity stupid.
Blazing hot summer day on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one
minute than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. It cannot
be possible that anything in our universe can really be this stupid.
This is a primordial fragment from the original big stupid bang. A pure
extract of stupid with absolute stupid purity. Stupid beyond the laws
of nature. I must apologize. I can't go on. This is my epiphany of
stupid. After this experience, you may not hear from me for a while.
I don't think that I can summon the strength left to mock your moronic
opinions and malformed comments about boring trivia or your other
drivel. Duh.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped
away most of your of what you wrote, because, well ... it didn't
really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was
pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a
load of babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after
you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more
success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal"
people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering.
But we sometimes forget that there are "challenged" persons in this
world who find these things to be difficult. If I had known that this
was true in your case then I would have never have exposed myself to
what you wrote. It just wouldn't have been "right." Sort of like
parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the
emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a
demand on you.

P.S.: You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful,
cowardly, deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable,
belligerent, opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal,
fascistic, bigoted, racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic,
brain-damaged, imbecilic, insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame,
self-righteous, byzantine, conspiratorial, fraudulent,
libelous, bilious, splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless, EDLINoid,
illegitimate, harmful, destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking,
devious, revisionist, narrow, manipulative, paternalistic,
fundamentalist, dogmatic, idolatrous, unethical, cultic, diseased,
suppressive, controlling, restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim,
crazy, weird, dyspeptic, stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim,
unsympathetic, jargon-spouting, censorious, secretive, aggressive,
mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous, flagrant, self-destructive,
abusive, socially-retarded, puerile, and Generally Not Good.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:36 | 6293527 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I'm sure he's been called worse.

BTW... What's a galactophage?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:52 | 6293585 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

He's obviously unhappy about something...

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 02:41 | 6293956 CPL
CPL's picture

Milk drinker....ancient way of saying faggot.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:35 | 6294214 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

LOL Most ornate rant ever.  And though this... a few bytes short of a full core dump .. pales in the face of the rest of the mares nest of verbiage, I quite like it and plan to use it.  Just a geek at heart I guess.  TY  ;~p

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:37 | 6293531 spoonful
spoonful's picture

Right-on Washington

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:52 | 6293781 Dog Will Hunt
Dog Will Hunt's picture

You should've just called him a hipster.  It's a (rightfully) dirty word in Austin!

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:51 | 6294157 Ill-news the St...
Ill-news the Stormcrow's picture

Why not just call him/her/it the worst thing in the world: "credit risk"?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:26 | 6294546 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

You forgot Confederate flag waving bastard.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 09:55 | 6295025 northern vigor
northern vigor's picture

brother-in law living in your basement?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:36 | 6293302 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

-

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:10 | 6293459 daveO
daveO's picture

Silver's selling out. One dealer has bumped up the price of a monster box (500) 2015 Eagles from 9100 to 9470 in the last 2 weeks. About 22% over.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:31 | 6293717 Fukushima Fricassee
Fukushima Fricassee's picture

Ain't it a fucking trip?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:43 | 6294222 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Well, I suppose that the more the paper price is suppressed, the more the premium for phys will rise and diverge.  Another way to look at it would be that the paper is being discounted.  The less realistic it becomes, the higher the discount.  The market 'will out' eventually unless it is just stone dead.  Fascinating ain't it?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:46 | 6294226 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Clunkier all the time this.... dup dup

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 03:23 | 6294009 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

Bitcoin FTW.

 

The transparent ledger eats bankster for breakfast.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:43 | 6294223 hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

Hillary and her fat ass will fix it. They'll be a spot market for jelly donuts.

Sat, 07/11/2015 - 17:07 | 6300028 tyrone
tyrone's picture

Im going long on pavement-diving banksters

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:35 | 6293306 JLO
JLO's picture

I sometimes feel like a banker from the old west. And i do not own a bank.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:33 | 6293722 Fukushima Fricassee
Fukushima Fricassee's picture

I am the old west . CC alows you to handle serious business like they did then. RED STATE.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:38 | 6293317 red1chief
red1chief's picture

Let them manipulate, it's good for buyers. Wish they would do that with houses.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:51 | 6293373 CPL
CPL's picture

They do.  The housing market is manipulated by mortgage and credit availability based on bonds and investment instruments issued.  It's why Bear Sterns blew up and they were selling homes in Detriot for a a dollar six months later. (they weren't great houses...but a buck is a buck right?). 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/did-josh-birnbaum-make-slip-did-senator...

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:45 | 6294228 hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

A dollar for the house but the stupid government still wanted 6k for the taxes. Fucking idiots.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:43 | 6293333 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

I would say - buy MOAR phyzz - but the premiums are outrageous on silver. Keep watching and checking - dealers don't make any money if they aren't selling anything.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:14 | 6293475 daveO
daveO's picture

Yep, these panic buys last a month or two. Then, the premiums usually drop. It depends on when the mint catches up.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/us-mint-sold-out-of-silver-eagles-announces...

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:54 | 6293338 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

So what else is new? 

Got Cash?  Got a steady Revenue Stream?  Got rid of Debt?  Got "Stuff of Life" to last you 6 mos?  Got tools, parts?  A Plan?  Reliable Friends (in deed when in Need)?  A vetted Network?   Sense of humor and joy for Life?

When you got all these, you might want to add to your stack -- cause it's timely and right for you, not your PM dealer.  Else you may be like the guy living in an inner city shack, but who has a nice Cadillac out front: f*cked up life priorities. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:35 | 6293728 Fukushima Fricassee
Fukushima Fricassee's picture

Deep

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 04:53 | 6294093 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Ah, parts.  There is the big gotcha.  Have everything your car will need for maintenance for the next year?  Even those mechanics who will only install parts they bought will usually install yours when they can't get any.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:44 | 6293341 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Agreed red1. let's pretend we're dumb for another 6 month/1 year.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:46 | 6293358 theyjustcantstop
theyjustcantstop's picture

what may seem illegal to the people, is just gods work.

and china, india, and russia, are laughing  all the way to buy that last oz.

 

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:47 | 6293360 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

The question is not  are they doing it..

 it's what can we do about it.. to screw them..

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 04:19 | 6294063 aurum4040
aurum4040's picture

If every last individual  would simulataneously STOP paying their debts and START buying physical PM's with debt money and overage money,  itd be game over. Get out of their rat race slavery skull fuck fest and become self sufficient. 

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:48 | 6293363 order66
order66's picture

Have to cover up rampant inflation in core discretionary somehow.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:53 | 6293366 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"OTC derivatives are privately structured contracts created by the secretive large banks. They are a paper, or derivative, form of an underlying financial instrument or commodity. Little is known about them."

Well, no.  Quite a lot is known about them if you consider WHAT THEY ARE.

Have you watched 'The Color of Money'?  Remember that the big money wasn't in the sanctioned pool tournament.  It was in using the official tournament as a way to leverage private games where there was more money at stake on a single rack in some back room than the guy who won the tourament took home.  The best player didn't necessarily win the tournament, and the guy who walked away with the most money didn't have to beat the best player, he just had to identify and beat the guy who was willing to lose the most money.

Welcome to the world of derivatives.  They are the side bets where HUGE money can change hands without ever roiling or even creating the slightest ripple in the "visible" (regulated/monitored/quoted/transparent) market that you and I see when we check the "price" of gold on yahoo finance or on a Bloomberg terminal.

And, by the way, the private contract derivatives market is explicitly exempted from government regulation.  It used to be regulated, then regulations were scaled back significantly under GHW Bush and finally explicitly exempted from regulation under Clinton.  Combine with Fed-printed free money and you have the high octane fuel that powers the world's biggest gambling casino that almost nobody even knows exists.  There is no "maximum bet" at this casino.  Which is why the derivatives market is orders of magnitude larger than the cash market to which it's bets are referenced.

 

 

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:13 | 6293649 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Great analogy...nice explanation.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:57 | 6293791 dr.charlemagne
dr.charlemagne's picture

right. so bank A shorts the living hell out of silver. bank B buys all the silver at collapsed price. Bank B sells a derivitive of the silver back to bank A. both are completely hedged and silver price is in the tank. Ta Da! total control of whatever security or commodity they wish. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 09:31 | 6294888 golden raccoon
golden raccoon's picture

This only works when bank A knows there are weak hands holding silver which can be flushed out.  Bank B's buying has to occur while the flush is in process.  Otherwise, its buying drives the price back up, and both banks make no net profit whatsoever.

Now here's a different scenario with far greater harm to citizens.  Bank A sells the hell out of the market, driving the price down.  Central bank A then sells an OTC derivative to bank A, locking in Bank A's profit on the short, and exposing the U.S. taxpayer to all losses from an upside move in the price of precious metals from its artificially suppressed price.  Aren't OTC derivatives wonderful?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:49 | 6293370 Phillyguy
Phillyguy's picture

Gold price has been manipulated to maintain the value of the US $$. Paul Craig Roberts has written extensively on this subject-

see: The Hows and Whys of Gold Price Manipulation. Link: www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/01/17/hows-whys-gold-price-manipulation

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:54 | 6293386 Phillyguy
Phillyguy's picture

Gold price update- Are Big Banks Using Derivatives To Suppress Bullion Prices? — Paul Craig Roberts and Dave Kranzler; Link: www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/07/08/big-banks-using-derivatives-suppress...

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:57 | 6293397 coast
coast's picture

Hey all...going off topic again..I just dont care anymore...I like that chris guy I think who used to post, "the bankers need to pay us back" lol... There are many others that I appreciate also, and ZH comments truly are the best in the world...Seriously...I love you all so much....Two things...are there any girls on this comment section? dear lord it seems like its all guys...and the other thing is, the person who qoutes scriptures all the time...I love you very much and I appreciate your input....So, I give this link, a song, that I thought you might like...The musician copied, but FIXED, the paul mccartney song, maybe Im amazed...Forgive me for going off topic, but I truly dont give a shit anymore..  But I love you..

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_kmYRABIAA

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:08 | 6293449 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

No.  With a few notable exceptions, it's pretty much a sausage-fest on ZH.  Now stop humping my leg.  I love you too, but not in that way.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:10 | 6293642 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

Who's leg do I have to hump to get any service around here?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:18 | 6293668 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

That's what she said!

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:05 | 6293625 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Not many it seems. But there are ZH'ers like NoDebt who are...y'know...Bruce Transjenner.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:03 | 6293803 Dog Will Hunt
Dog Will Hunt's picture

And just how the fuck is this shit considered a "fixing" of McCartney's original?  Because the douche has thinly found a way of applying the song to his own nutty religious tastes?  News flash, dick teeth: the original version wasn't broken in the first place. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:18 | 6293837 Wino911
Wino911's picture

I've been reading ZH for several years but never posted before. I have the feeling I'm the only old hag here so I quietly lurk in the shadows and read the comments for amusement.
You guys are hilarious!

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 02:48 | 6293971 Prime Rib
Prime Rib's picture

Yes, here's one - a "girl" that is. Given up on newspapers, tv, magazines. ZH is all I've got, all I read. OK, a little obsessively, but with a glass of wine and some great jazz playing, it's pretty close to sublime. A stacker from way back on general principal. Trying to read and learn more about the whole damn mess. Thanks for the education. From the western edge of the Continent. And here's another musical link for all to enjoy:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obAtn6I5rbY

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:35 | 6294595 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

And here's one for you, girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIyhTNFsozo

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:08 | 6294147 free
free's picture

n/m

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 10:05 | 6295066 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

Hey coast! You still raisin' those goats?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:59 | 6293406 Reaper
Reaper's picture

"OTC derivatives are privately structured contracts created by the secretive large banks." Derivatives are legal promises to perform. They'll continue to be used until someone takes action in the Second Circuit (States of NY, CT and VT) to declare defaults in Credit Default Swaps or direct enforcement of contract in other derivatives. A contract isn't cash; it's only an avenue to have a law suit. Once derivatives are known as only an unenforceable contract and a pending law suit in the Second Circuit will the farce end.

Derivatives and credit Default Swaps are only potential law suits.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:39 | 6294142 free
free's picture

Was thinking the same - does JPM really believe the counterparties are gonna pay up on their bets?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:56 | 6294164 Ill-news the St...
Ill-news the Stormcrow's picture

No, JPM thinks you are.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 22:59 | 6293407 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

The most extensive collection of information confirming manipulation comes from GATA:

-- Was the Banque de France's director of market operations, Alexandre Gautier, telling the truth when he told the London Bullion Market Association meeting in Rome in September 2013 that the bank is secretly trading gold for its own account and the accounts of other central banks "nearly on a daily basis"? (See: http://www.gata.org/node/13373.)

-- Is the Bank for International Settlements telling the truth when it maintains in its annual report that it does the same sort of secret trading on behalf of its member central banks, trading not only gold itself but also gold futures, options, and other derivatives? (See:http://www.gata.org/node/12717.)

 

-- Is the BIS sincere when it advertises that it undertakes secret interventions in the gold market for its members? (Seehttp://www.gata.org/node/11012.)

-- Was CME Group, which operates the major futures exchanges in the United States, telling the truth last year when it told the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission that it is offering volume trading discounts to central banks for secretly trading all contracts on its exchanges? (See http://www.gata.org/node/14385.)

-- Was CME Group telling the truth last year when it told the U.S. Securities and Exchange commission that its customers include governments and central banks? (See http://www.gata.org/node/14411.)

-- If central banks are indeed doing so much secret trading in the gold market and other markets, what are their objectives and might this secret trading be intended to manipulate markets, support government currencies and bonds, and deceive and cheat investors who think that markets are free trading?

There is a lot more documentation suggesting as much here:

http://www.gata.org/node/14839

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:11 | 6293463 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Ask the Hunt Brothers....

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:15 | 6293477 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Mike Hunt?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:43 | 6293557 litemine
litemine's picture

I Guess. if you have one.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 09:47 | 6294969 northern vigor
northern vigor's picture

In the 70s there was a thoughbred named York Hunt...after one race they had to change his name.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:03 | 6293421 Shibumi2
Shibumi2's picture

the big cocks are swinging...

 

so are the little ones with a little more effort

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:05 | 6293432 tool
tool's picture

Anyone in the US or viewing the price of gold/silver in $US see it going down in evey other currency its up or going sideways. Imaging the price without the suppression I believe its more for everyone outside the US to not take any notice of PM's and start dumping fiat.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:07 | 6293435 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Are you a Cretan or just a little slow?

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:06 | 6293439 Omega_Man
Omega_Man's picture

China needs $15 b in silver tomorrow, physical, cash on the barrel,  that should take care of it

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:07 | 6293442 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

The important thing to note here is that GOVERNMENT is behind this systemic manipulation.

A lot of people refuse to admit that.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:19 | 6293838 Cherubim
Cherubim's picture

Correct. But instead of calling it manipulation, maybe we should call it Price-Fixing.

Price-Fixing ends in shortages which in turn end up in black markets or "grey markets." Such as online bullion dealers selling silver at a 25% markup and buying that same silver almost $2.00 above spot. That is where the real price of bullion will show up. And if that becomes illegal, then the black market appears. The bane of many a dictatorship.

The price that's quoted for the London and New York "market" will become less and less relevant.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:04 | 6294193 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I believe it is written into the FED bylaws that it will do exactly what it has been doing, defend the dollar at all costs.

 

Make no mistake, it is a war between PMs and Fiats and the Dollar is the king of the Fiats.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:10 | 6293457 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Bill Clinton was the 1st CheesePope President.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:21 | 6294519 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

nah. I gotta go with 'Il Duce' himself: FDR.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:21 | 6293492 fromthinair
fromthinair's picture

I might have missed the whole conspiracy part here ... can someone pitch in and help me out here .. zerohedge included.

As I understand zerohedge claims that : bullion prices should be rirising (under foreseable economic conditions). but, the prices are dropping because of manipulation. Can some one explain who benefits and how?

There are many markets in which speculations are done with the intention of not taking the physical delivery. But, I do not know how easy it is to borrow and short these markets ... where you can't do naked shorts... i do not know which bullion or commodities allow naked shorts and which one do not. It will be helpful if someone can connect the dots..

Thanks!

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:34 | 6293526 fromthinair
fromthinair's picture

ok, got it.. the alleged conspiracy is to send wrong signals about the true state of inflation. So, ZH, if you do not understand the relationship then it must be a conspiracy. Is that true zh? if not then help me understand.

ZH, keep reading the following . The death of capitalism is still in progress. Also, please restore my original userid (thinair)

http://just-a-thought-from-thinair.blogspot.com/

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:31 | 6293514 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Any of the numerous physical dealers still have enough of whatever metal you want in any quantity you could likely afford available for overnight delivery to your door just above spot price for large bars.

I've been loading up on more physical and leveraged long positions in the metals. You can fill either OTC physical or listed securities long or short easily at these prices as retail so step up and place your bets!

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:18 | 6293669 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Where is Price Discovery?

What should be the price of Gold or Silver?

They suppressed the Price of Gold for how many years since 1971? 44 years of Price Suppression.

Hm...

Well in 2008 or 2009 that broke. The price rose to a plateau after reaching a high and backing off.

Looks like same old Price Suppression to me.

Fixing is what they call it is LIBOR, and other markets.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:28 | 6294130 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

"Any of the numerous physical dealers still have enough of whatever metal you want"

That is simply not true for earlier dated gold and silver bullion coins.  Most retailers are out of stock in these.  This was not true only a year or two ago.  Now if you order "random year" you will almost certainly get 2015 with a delay.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:06 | 6294266 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Buying particular years puts you more into the realm of a collector.  Base metals are still available, no?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:06 | 6294456 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

I'm not talking about buying particular years.  I'm talking about ANY previous years.  Not available when they were previously without asking for them.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:32 | 6293517 Reichstag Fire Dept.
Reichstag Fire Dept.'s picture

"If this supposition is correct, it indicates that seven years of bailing out the big banks that control the Federal Reserve and US Treasury at the expense of the US economy has threatened the US dollar to the extent that the dollar must be protected at all cost, including US regulatory tolerance of illegal activity to suppress gold and silver prices."

I would say they bailed out the banks out to hide the fact that they were protecting the dollar to the extent that they are. The 2008 crash WAS the big one we've been waiting for..."they" have been faking it ever since! The price manipulation extends well beyond prior to 2008.


Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:32 | 6293518 Reichstag Fire Dept.
Reichstag Fire Dept.'s picture

"If this supposition is correct, it indicates that seven years of bailing out the big banks that control the Federal Reserve and US Treasury at the expense of the US economy has threatened the US dollar to the extent that the dollar must be protected at all cost, including US regulatory tolerance of illegal activity to suppress gold and silver prices."

I would say they bailed out the banks out to hide the fact that they were protecting the dollar to the extent that they are. The 2008 crash WAS the big one we've been waiting for..."they" have been faking it ever since! The price manipulation extends well beyond prior to 2008.


Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:40 | 6293547 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

During 2015 the attack on bullion prices has intensified, driving the prices lower than they have been for years.

 

I'm not complaining, I'm praying they overshoot and gold/silver take a huge dump.  I'll be buying.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:55 | 6293575 21centurydragon...
21centurydragonslayer's picture

Yes at times the banks have suppressed the price. But in the last couple years the naked shorts have been coming from the managed money segment aka large speculators. This is especially true right now. They have a naked short position of 300 million ounces of silver. The banks are not short, so this analysis is wrong. In fact JP Morgan itself or as  roxy has a big stash of depository silver;

http://winteractionables.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/jpmsilver.png

also see:http://winteractionables.com/?p=22600

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 09:10 | 6294783 golden raccoon
golden raccoon's picture

With the OTC derivatives markets far exceeding the exchange-traded derivatives markets, you have no idea who is actually net short and who is net long in "paper" precious metals markets.

Thu, 07/09/2015 - 23:58 | 6293602 litemine
litemine's picture

Is it just me or is this a Jewish Banker wanting to cause SLW to lose face?

http://www.stockhouse.com/news/press-releases/2015/07/08/equity-alert-the-rosen-law-firm-files-securities-class-action-lawsuit-against

The NWO does not like the fact that SLW holds/Sell more PM's than is held by paper pushers such as SLV?

Maybe a Class Action Suit could be launched against Lawyers for miss information leading to a fall of a Private (company)'s Stock Price........Oh wait........They never do time, same as Bankers. penalties are lower than the Profits taken.

The Claim states knowledge was unknown but I haveheld SLW for over 10 years and I am down but I know that I will profit as SLW hold real Physical Metals and to me this is a Gamble against the Corupt System that keeps us in Wars and downtroddened.

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:04 | 6293619 maknyc
maknyc's picture

Two comments....why are hedge funds buying 'contracts' that the author suggests are certain to go down in price due to manipulation?  Either they are incredibly stupid, or the authors view is somewhat flawed.  Spoiler alert.....the latter.  And as for the mint shortage perspective.....they are not out of silver.....they are out of silver coins.  There is a bottleneck in the creation of coins from raw silver that cannot be met when demand spikes on price declines, so shortages of finished product become a temporary condition and premiums for the product go up.  But eventually the increased demand is whittled down and creation of units and demand falls back into balance, until the next ZH story touting a $5 up move in the price of gold as an indication of a bottom and the resulting $22 collapse in prices.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 08:02 | 6294436 northern vigor
northern vigor's picture

The banks can manpulate the paper  price down, because they buy actual bullion.

At one time I decided QE money was flowing to the banks to drive the gold down to protect the dollar....I have no reason to change my view yet. It may not be called QE  now, but the fed is still moving dollars to their bank owners.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 09:06 | 6294763 golden raccoon
golden raccoon's picture

Your comment implies that the bullion banks and Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and Citi are somehow reticent about fleecing hedge funds ... think again!  While there are a few hedge funds which are currently part of the insider cabal, even these guys are likely to be thrown overboard to save the hides of those bankers truly running the show when things start to crumble.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:17 | 6293666 cigarEngineer
cigarEngineer's picture

You guys are insane. Would you want the price of hamburgers to go up? No!

Keep cheerleading the manipulation. The only time gold should be high is when you're ready to sell.

Keep buying, maggots!

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:22 | 6293681 LCCastro
LCCastro's picture

Good job crooks, keep doing it.

The more you crack, the more I stack.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:25 | 6293690 navy62802
navy62802's picture

I will give you 3 guesses, and the first 2 don't count. Take a look at CYNK. If one measely shitbag can do that much damage with a shell company, what do you think a concerted cohort of banks can do with the price of gold? Of course it is manipulated to high heaven. Despite minor volatility over the past couple of weeks, gold has remained within a relatively narrow window of valuation. Given the magnitude of the events unfolding over the same timeframe, the only explanation is that major financial institutions are stepping in to keep the value of gold down. There is no other valid explanation.

 

I, for one, do not mind. I hope the cohort can keep the price of gold as low as possible for as long as possible in order to give me the opportunity to continue buying.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:26 | 6293695 Moccasin
Moccasin's picture

silver is my hedge against the inevitable collapse of the fiat ponzi scheme. Time is on my side.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:41 | 6293751 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

I'm a financial Idiot. I trusted Bank of New York Mellon in IPO after like 18 months or 24 months later and bought something. Screw BNYM or whatever their ticker symbol is.

Fuck them.

"...suppresses the warning signal..."

Are ZHer watching the Warning Signal???!!!

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:35 | 6293726 onmail
onmail's picture

Yeah but you cant do it forever

when gold booms dollar will crash

& BRICS will shine

America fades away

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 00:51 | 6293772 honestann
honestann's picture

article:  For example last Tuesday the US Mint announced that it was sold out of the American Eagle one ounce silver coin. It is a contradiction of the law of supply and demand that demand is high, supply is low, and the price is falling. Such an economic anomaly can only be explained by manipulation of prices in a market where supply can be created by printing paper contracts.

me: A-freaking-men.

Sooner or later, the manipulation will self-destruct, along with the entire house of cards.  Just hold on... as long as it takes.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:08 | 6293817 navy62802
navy62802's picture

They key here is that gold should not be viewed as an investment in the traditional sense ... not something to be bought and sold for profit. Gold is a hedge against the hubris of central bankers. For those with insight, gold offers a method by which to preserve wealth outside of the fiat monetary system. So, when the bankers fuck away the value of the US dollar, your wealth will be preserved in physical gold. I actually hope that they are able to hold things together, but I buy gold and silver with the unfortunate expectation that they won't hold things together. I expect that the entire US monetary system will come unglued at some point in my life, and I buy gold and silver in order to hedge against such an eventuality. If things go better than expected, I will hold my collection to the day I die. However, if needed, it is there.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:51 | 6293884 honestann
honestann's picture

I certainly hope they cannot hold it together, because "hold it together" means "forever continue and increase overt abuse and enslavement".

I also note this.  The dollar is weak, not strong.  A friend sends me a representative set of prices once per month from several random and neutral sources.  And the FACT of the matter is, the dollar is collapsing in value.

However, other currencies are collapsing even faster!  And so, when you look at any of the measures of the USD, you find the USD doing well.  But this is entirely misleading if you imagine measures like DXY are absolute measures.  THEY ARE NOT.

I do agree that holding gold or silver for the short term is not necessarily a wise strategy.  However, this is only because their prices are massively manipulated.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:07 | 6293811 DeusHedge
DeusHedge's picture

What about the illegal evading of investment tax in the shadow banking system, left untouched by the SEC?
The mere principles of which would seem 3x worse than the TPP. And I thought the SEC was supposed to be an "informative" department of the federal government to the American people, what are the fucking ceo's supposed to rub us?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:09 | 6293819 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

The City of London Corporation has laws that make it legal to do  things that are illegal everywhere else, which explains why certain financial corporations have offices there. That also explains the nonsense in pm markets when they open. They have only over 300 years of practice in lying and stealing.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 01:13 | 6293826 kedi
kedi's picture

It is odd that so many wail about the price of gold and silver being kept artificially low by the complex paper shuffling. So many folks point to gold as a hedge against a financial system collapse. So it seems a bonus to have the price kept low by the teetering financial casino, while those who seek it as the long term hedge can get it cheaper. I think those that are crying hardest about this are the ones who actually bought gold as casino chips, not last resort nest egg. They are disappointed that they cannot sell it at a profit now, instead of saving it for the bad times.

If the overall financial system/casino/Ponzi scheme is keeping the price low, then that is how it is. Whatever the reasons, and most of the reasons are known, buy and sell accordingly. Or buy and hold till the scheme collapses. Just because the scheme has not fallen apart fast enough for speculative gold holders to profit as much as they wish to, as soon as they wished to, doesn't mean gold and silver is a bad buy. Take advantage of the low prices and hold/horde. If you are trying to flip for fast profit, look elsewhere or be one of the few that can buy at the right time.

Precious metals will likely hold value and give better return, even in this present time period, than a savings account.

The only real downside is the premium to buy small amounts of real metals versus large paper amounts. But that is the usual case in all things.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 02:36 | 6293951 northern vigor
northern vigor's picture

I have both actual and paper pms. I hold the actual for obvious reasons, but also because it is hard to trade it forces me to accumulate ...it is my insurance, and I don't care what the day price is for it...it is there for the kids one day.

I also have paper. Nothing more than I can afford to lose if the SHTF. I have a  ETF  I  trade. PMs never go in  a straight line, they go  up or down  continually, so I let them go up 5% and sell, and buy them back in the dips. This happens a few times a year...sometimes in a month. Sometimes in a week...the manipulators do it and I decided to mirror them. I'll set a 5% profit price on my trading account and leave it and wait until it hits the price, it automatically happens without me watching it.  Same to buy it back...I set my price again and wait.

 I take profits out and buy my actual bullion that I hold at home. Since 2005, volatility has made  it  very good... my actual accumulated since 2005 is 400% of the original principle  investment. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:15 | 6294117 css1971
css1971's picture

I recommend you trade the gold to silver ratio.

http://www.kitco.com/Gold_Silver_Ratio_Charts/gold-silver-ratio-charts.html

When the ratio is above about 65, you buy only silver, if it goes above 70, sell all your gold and switch to silver.

Then you wait for it to "normalise", might take a while.

When it goes below 55, you buy only gold. Below about 45 and you switch all your silver to gold. This way you can actually increase your PM holdings without adding any extra cash. It also guarantees you're always buying low and selling high not the other way round.

As you might tell, I'm exclusively in silver at the moment.

This is a sub-tactic of a balanced portfolio approach of buying sectors that are cheap and selling those that are expensive. (everything is expensive just now, meaning cash is cheap). And there's bugger all the banks and manipulators can do about it, my timescale is years while they have to hit their quarter end targets.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:45 | 6294296 northern vigor
northern vigor's picture

To be honest in 2005 I was entirely gold, but today my actual is mostly held in silver with some gold. My paper is gold....But to keep my comment in a simple explanation,  I just wrote "PMs" or bullion. I want actually held  silver for day to day purchases or bartering   in case of a financial meltdown, with just some gold if we have to move fast or bribe someone. I agree with your formula on silver.

My trading has evolved over ten years from buying and selling gold certificates over the counter at the bank... before I had high speed internet, to arbitraging the miners, to what  I do today. I do not need bigger moves more than 5% because that happens more often than a ten percent move so I "harvest" more often. At a 5% move I am sold or bought, so I do miss some of those big days that make headlines. But over ten years this 5% formula seems to be the slow and steady way for me. I am just a simple farmer and have to keep it simple...the KISS formula. In Canada, I am doing it entirely inside my TFSA now, so the profits I take out to buy bullion are tax free. I like it.

Btw, I had to stop trading certificates at Scotia, because when the amount got over $200,000 US$, the FBI had to check the sale and it was dragging on too long each time I did it. I was missing the chances to buy back quick. To trade certificates my formula was 10% because the commissions were 2% but it only happened twice a year. The smaller 5% occurs many times a year.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:30 | 6294335 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

I always want to keep some portion in gold because it is portable.  If you have to hit the road, you don't want to be hauling a ton of silver around, although it would be wise to take a bag of Mercury dimes with you.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 07:52 | 6294393 northern vigor
northern vigor's picture

true...silver should be buried in an obscure spot where the owner can sneak back in the dark to get it without being seen by lights or cameras.

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 09:01 | 6294730 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

Good post.  You make some valid points.  I would welcome your comments on my post as well.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 02:41 | 6293958 shutterbug
shutterbug's picture

Get rid of all current banks(sters).

Split apart savings banks from every other type and be done with it.

Let the trading banking sector crashs and burn forever.

 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 03:00 | 6293988 HYMN
HYMN's picture

The days that this can go on are fast coming to an end. The manipulators will be beaten at their own game, face the music and the laws of supply and demand. JPM who has for the most part cornered the silver market will have just enough to stay out of jail,most won't be that lucky when the wreckoning hits.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 03:07 | 6293996 heavenlykapua
heavenlykapua's picture

There are more broads following ZH than you know.  I have been quiietly reading ZH from the sidelines since 2009.  Huge fan.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 03:20 | 6294005 quasi_verbatim
quasi_verbatim's picture

While I agree with your sentiment unfortunately it is the broadization of the Western world that has brought us to our present sorry circumstances.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 03:10 | 6293998 quasi_verbatim
quasi_verbatim's picture

Most of the bullion in the world is now in strong hands and NSA knows who has the remnant. What do you think Jade Helm is for?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 03:29 | 6294014 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

Would a BRICS bank (AIIB?) be able to attempt a realistic and sustainable attack on the Dollar? Sure could! But would it? In any case they seemed to have blocked the return to Gold backed currency as an escape route for the US $.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 04:44 | 6294082 Fiat agnostic
Fiat agnostic's picture

This story should have been published 4 years ago, we've known about manipulation/regulator disinterest since then. The question about is when and how it will end?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 04:48 | 6294085 cwsuisse
cwsuisse's picture

It does not sound really plausible. Although I agree that the price for bullion is hammered and manipulated there is also the aspect of insufficient demand for physical or secret destocking of the FED. If the demand for physical would exceed the supply a separate price for physical would occur and we would see separate prices for paper and physical. I rather seems to be the case that investors wait at the sidelines for the moment. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:01 | 6294103 css1971
css1971's picture

Price controls cause shortages.

If you're selling below the market value, i'm buying.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:13 | 6294114 mantrid
mantrid's picture

and I thought Keith Weiner (http://www.acting-man.com/?author=1300) reprinted here many times already debunked this idiotic theory. but apparently in new normal even Tyler doesn't read what he's posting anymore. 

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:55 | 6294162 who cares
who cares's picture

Yea, very good article if you like baloney.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:29 | 6294131 GFORCE
GFORCE's picture

Such an old, tired story by people who don't understand markets.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:38 | 6294139 Stevious
Stevious's picture

At the moment, Dr Copper says "no."

Uncle Iron agrees.

 

Historically, sure, but currently we are in a slow-motion train wreck.

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 06:19 | 6294192 Fed-up with bei...
Fed-up with being Sick and Tired's picture

I wonder if things are so manipulated that NOTHING that "worked" in the past are true any longer?

Fri, 07/10/2015 - 05:38 | 6294141 CHX
CHX's picture

London is bleeding bullion... yellow brics to china, white brics to India... Only some sort of default or severe shortages will stop the paper games IMO. When that will be is anyone's guess, except for a handful of insiders. Could the low oil prices be a hidden bail-out of the miners to keep the flow of metal alive for the time being ?

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