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New Greek Proposal Backtracks To Pre-Referendum Draft, Does Not Request Debt Haircut - Full Text
There is nothing incrementally new or different to what we revealed earlier in the leaked Greek proposal (i.e., no actionable pension cuts, no debt "reprofiling") and as Bloomberg makes it all too clear in flashing red headlines:
- GREEK GOVT PROPOSAL SIMILAR TO EU COMMISSION'S JUNE 26 PROPOSAL
... or the one which 61% of the Greek people said no to.
What's worse, the proposal will be promptly deemed as insufficient because as Merkel made clear in the past four days, the old proposal is no longer valid due to the collapse in the Greek economy since capital controls were imposed and will, ironically, have be far harsher to offset the slowdown in the economy. To make things worse, the proposed indirect (no direct ones) pension cuts, and lack of a request for debt relief will be certain to infuriate the Greek population.
The broad strokes: a 3 year, €53.5 billion bailout program, including €35 billion of growth measures, lasting through June 30, 2018 requesting funds from the ESM, seeking to finally put the IMF off to the side.
The program is heavy on revenue promises and lite on actual spending cuts. Greece hopes to achieve a 1% primary budget surplus in 2015, rising to 2%, 3%, and 3.5% by 2018, all of which are now impossible due to the total collapse of the economy in the past week.
Among the tax reform will be a modest increase in corporate tax from 26% to 28%.
The changes to the VAT system are as noted previously, keeping the VAT on hotels at 13% but raising it to 23% for restaurants; Greece also promises to eliminate discounts on islands, starting with the islands with higher incomes and which are the most popular tourist destinations.
However, it is the pension side where the issues remain, and it is here that once again there is little actual direct reductions. Among the promises, most are the generic fluff previously agreed on:
create strong disincentives to early retirement, incur penalties for early withdrawals, make all supplementary pension funds financed by own contributions; and so on.
The good news for the Troika is that Greece will seek to "gradually phase out the solidarity grant (EKAS) for all pensioners by end-December 2019" - who will be impacted and when: "the top 20% of beneficiaries in March 2016." In other words another 9 months of non real action. The bad news for the Troika is that Greece will also "freeze monthly guaranteed contributory pension limits in nominal terms until 2021."
More in the full proposal, but the truth is that while making some concessions, the Greek proposal may still be insufficient for Merkel, and certainly won't be sufficient for the IMF due to the lack of real pension cuts.
Worse, Syriza will have to vote on this proposal tomorrow and explain to the people why nearly two thirds of them just voted No to a deal which the government itself is now hoping will pass.
But worst of all, nowhere in the draft sent to creditors is there anything requesting or even hinting about Greek debt haircut, relief or even reprofiling.
And all of this will happen as a massive Oxi demonstration takes place in front of government, so be on the lookout for a repeat appearance by the riotcam.
* * *
Full text below (via Amna)
10/ 07/ 2015
The full proposal submitted by the Greek government to the Eurogroup earlier on Thursday is the following:
"Greece: Prior Actions
Policy Commitments and Actions to be taken in consultation with EC/ECB/IMF staff:
1. 2015 supplementary budget and 2016-19 MTFS
Adopt effective as of July 1, 2015 a supplementary 2015 budget and a 2016–19 medium-term fiscal strategy, supported by a sizable and credible package of measures. The new fiscal path is premised on a primary surplus target of (1, 2, 3), and 3.5 percent of GDP in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. The package includes VAT reforms (¶2), other tax policy measures (¶3), pension reforms (¶4), public administration reforms (¶5), reforms addressing shortfalls in tax collection enforcement (¶6), and other parametric measures as specified below.
2. VAT reform
Adopt legislation to reform the VAT system that will be effective as of July 1, 2015. The reform will target a net revenue gain of 1 percent of GDP on an annual basis from parametric changes. The new VAT system will: (i) unify the rates at a standard 23 percent rate, which will include restaurants and catering, and a reduced 13 percent rate for basic food, energy, hotels, and water (excluding sewage), and a super-reduced rate of 6 percent for pharmaceuticals, books, and theater; (ii) streamline exemptions to broaden the base and raise the tax on insurance; and (iii) Eliminate discounts on islands, starting with the islands with higher incomes and which are the most popular tourist destinations, except the most remote ones. This will be completed by end-2016, as appropriate and targeted fiscally neutral measures to compensate those inhabitants that are most in need are determined. The new VAT rates on hotels and islands will be implemented from October 2015.
The increase of the VAT rate described above may be reviewed at the end of 2016, provided that equivalent additional revenues are collected through measures taken against tax evasion and to improve collectability of VAT. Any decision to review and revise shall take place in consultation with the institutions.
3. Fiscal structural measures
Adopt legislation to:
- close possibilities for income tax avoidance (e.g., tighten the definition of farmers), take measures to increase the corporate income tax in 2015 and require 100 percent advance payments for corporate income and gradually for individual business income tax by 2017; phase out the preferential tax treatment of farmers in the income tax code by 2017; raise the solidarity surcharge;
- abolish subsidies for excise on diesel oil for farmers and better target eligibility to halve heating oil subsidies expenditure in the budget 2016;
- in view of any revision of the zonal property values, adjust the property tax rates if necessary to safeguard the 2015 and 2016 property tax revenues at €2.65 billion and adjust the alternative minimum personal income taxation.
- eliminate the cross-border withholding tax introduced by the installments act (law XXXX/2015) and reverse the recent amendments to the ITC in the public administration act (law XXXX/2015), including the special treatment of agricultural income.
- adopt outstanding reforms on the codes on income tax, and tax procedures: introduce a new Criminal Law on Tax Evasion and Fraud to amend the Special Penal Law 2523/1997 and any other relevant legislation, and replace Article 55, ¶s 1 and 2, of the TPC, with a view, inter alia, to modernize and broaden the definition of tax fraud and evasion to all taxes; abolish all Code of Book and Records fines, including those levied under law 2523/1997 develop the tax framework for collective investment vehicles and their participants consistently with the ITC and in line with best practices in the EU.
- adopt legislation to upgrade the organic budget law to: (i) introduce a framework for independent agencies; (ii) phase out ex-ante audits of the Hellenic Court of Auditors and account officers (ypologos); (iii) give GDFSs exclusive financial service capacity and GAO powers to oversee public sector finances; and (iv) phase out fiscal audit offices by January 2017.
- increase the rate of the tonnage tax and phase out special tax treatments of the shipping industry.
By September 2015, (i) simplify the personal income tax credit schedule; (ii) re-design and integrate into the ITC the solidarity surcharge for income of 2016 to more effectively achieve progressivity in the income tax system; (iii) issue a circular on fines to ensure the comprehensive and consistent application of the TPC; (iv) and other remaining reforms as specified in ¶9 of the IMF Country Report No. 14/151.
On health care, effective as of July 1, 2015, (i) re-establish full INN prescription, without exceptions, (ii) reduce as a first step the price of all off-patent drugs to 50 percent and all generics to 32.5 percent of the patent price, by repealing the grandfathering clause for medicines already in the market in 2012, and (iii)) review and limit the prices of diagnostic tests to bring structural spending in line with claw back targets; and (iv) collect in the full the 2014 clawback for private clinics, diagnostics and pharmaceuticals, and extend their 2015 clawback ceilings to 2016.
Launch the Social Welfare Review under the agreed terms of reference with the technical assistance of the World Bank to target savings of ½ percent of GDP which can help finance a fiscally neutral gradual roll-out of the GMI in January 2016.
Adopt legislation to:
- reduce the expenditure ceiling for military spending by €100 million in 2015 and by €200 million in 2016 with a targeted set of actions, including a reduction in headcount and procurement;
- introduce reform of the income tax code, [inter alia covering capital taxation], investment vehicles, farmers and the self- employed, etc.;
- raise the corporate tax rate from 26% to 28%;
- introduce tax on television advertisements;
- announce international public tender for the acquisition of television licenses and usage related fees of relevant frequencies; and
- extend implementation of luxury tax on recreational vessels in excess of 5 meters and increase the rate from 10% to 13%, coming into effect from the collection of 2014 income taxes and beyond;
- extend Gross Gaming Revenues (GGR) taxation of 30% on VLT games expected to be installed at second half of 2015 and 2016;
- generate revenues through the issuance of 4G and 5G licenses.
- We will consider some compensating measures, in case of fiscal shortfalls: (i) Increase the tax rate to income for rents, for annual incomes below €12,000 to 15% (from 11%) with an additional revenue of €160 million and for annual incomes above €12,000 to 35% (from 33%) with an additional revenue of €40 million; (ii) the corporate income tax will increase by an additional percentage point (i.e. from 28% to 29%) that will result in additional revenues of €130 million.
4. Pension reform
The Authorities recognise that the pension system is unsustainable and needs fundamental reforms. This is why they will implement in full the 2010 pension reform law (3863/2010), and implement in full or replace/adjust the sustainability factors for supplementary and lump-sum pensions from the 2012 reform as a part of the new pension reform in October 2015 to achieve equivalent savings and take further steps to improve the pension system.
Effective from July 1, 2015 the authorities will phase-in reforms that would deliver estimated permanent savings of ¼-½ percent of GDP in 2015 and 1 percent of GDP on a full year basis in 2016 and thereafter by adopting legislation to:
- create strong disincentives to early retirement, including the adjustment of early retirement penalties, and through a gradual elimination of grandfathering to statutory retirement age and early retirement pathways progressively adapting to the limit of statutory retirement age of 67 years, or 62 and 40 years of contributions by 2022, applicable for all those retiring (except arduous professions, and mothers with children with disability) with immediate application;
- adopt legislation so that withdrawals from the Social Insurance Fund will incur an annual penalty, for those affected by the extension of the retirement age period, equivalent to 10 percent on top of the current penalty of 6 percent;
- integrate into ETEA all supplementary pension funds and ensure that, starting January 1, 2015, all supplementary pension funds are only financed by own contributions;
- better target social pensions by increasing OGA uninsured pension;
- Gradually phase out the solidarity grant (EKAS) for all pensioners by end-December 2019. This shall be legislated immediately and shall start as regards the top 20% of beneficiaries in March 2016 with the modalities of the phase out to be agreed with the institutions;
- freeze monthly guaranteed contributory pension limits in nominal terms until 2021;
- provide to people retiring after 30 June 2015 the basic, guaranteed contributory, and means tested pensions only at the attainment of the statutory normal retirement age of currently 67 years;
- increase the health contributions for pensioners from 4% to 6% on average and extend it to supplementary pensions;
- phase out all state-financed exemptions and harmonize contribution rules for all pension funds with the structure of contributions to IKA from 1 July 2015;
Moreover, in order to restore the sustainability of the pension system, the authorities will by 31 October 2015, legislate further reforms to take effect from 1 January 2016; (i) specific design and parametric improvements to establish a closer link between contributions and benefits; (ii) broaden and modernize the contribution and pension base for all self-employed, including by switching from notional to actual income, subject to minimum required contribution rules; (iii) revise and rationalize all different systems of basic, guaranteed contributory and means tested pension components, taking into account incentives to work and contribute; (iv) the main elements of a comprehensive SSFs consolidation, including any remaining harmonization of contribution and benefit payment rules and procedures across all funds; (v) abolish all nuisance charges financing pensions and offset by reducing benefits or increasing contributions in specific funds to take effect from 31 October 2015; and (vi) harmonize pension benefit rules of the agricultural fund (OGA) with the rest of the pension system in a pro rata manner, unless OGA is merged into other funds. The consolidation of social insurance funds will take place by end 2017. In 2015, the process will be activated through legislation to consolidate the social insurance funds under a single entity and the operational consolidation will have been completed by 31 December 2016. Further reductions in the operating costs and a more effective management of fund resources including improved balancing of needs between better-off and poorer-off funds will be actively encouraged.
The authorities will adopt legislation to fully offset the fiscal effects of the implementation of court rulings on the 2012 pension reform.
In parallel to the reform of the pension system, a Social Welfare Review will be carried out to ensure fairness of the various reforms.
The institutions are prepared to take into account other parametric measures within the pension system of equivalent effect to replace some of the measures mentioned above, taking into account their impact on growth, and provided that such measures are presented to the institutions during the design phase and are sufficiently concrete and quantifiable, and in the absence of this the default option is what is specified above.
5. Public Administration, Justice and Anti Corruption
Adopt legislation to:
- reform the unified wage grid, effective 1 January, 2016, setting the key parameters in a fiscally neutral manner and consistent with the agreed wage bill targets and with comprehensive application across the public sector, including decompressing the wage distribution across the wage spectrumin connection with the skill, performance and responsibility of staff. (The authorities will also adopt legislation to rationalise the specialised wage grids, by end-November 2015);
- align non-wage benefits such as leave arrangements, per diems, travel allowances and perks, with best practices in the EU, effective 1 January 2016;
- establish within the new MTFS ceilings for the wage bill and the level of public employment consistent with achieving the fiscal targets and ensuring a declining path of the wage bill relative to GDP until 2019;
- hire managers and assess performance of all employees (with the aim to complete the hiring of new managers by 31 December 2015 subsequent to a review process)
- introduce a new permanent mobility scheme applied by Q4 2015. The scheme will promote the use of job description and will be linked with an online database that will include all current vacancies. Final decision on employee mobility will be taken by each service concerned. This will rationalize the allocation of resources as well as the staffing across the General Government.
- reform the Civil Procedure Code, in line with previous agreements; introduce measures to reduce the backlog of cases in administrative courts; work closely with European institutions and technical assistance on e-justice, mediation and judicial statistics
- strengthen the governance of ELSTAT. It shall cover (i) the role and structure of the Advisory bodies of the Hellenic Statistical System, including the recasting of the Council of ELSS to an advisory Committee of the ELSS, and the role of the Good Practice Advisory Committee (GPAC); (ii) the recruitment procedure for the President of ELSTAT, to ensure that a President of the highest professional calibre is recruited, following transparent procedures and selection criteria; (iii) the involvement of ELSTAT as appropriate in any legislative or other legal proposal pertaining to any statistical matter; (iv) other issues that impact the independence of ELSTAT, including financial autonomy, the empowerment of ELSTAT to reallocate existing permanent posts and to hire staff where it is needed and to hire specialised scientific personnel, and the classification of the institution as a fiscal policy body in the recent law 4270/2014; role and powers of Bank of Greece in statistics in line with European legislation.
- Publish a revised Strategic Plan against Corruption by 31 July 2015. Amend and implement the legal framework for the declaration of assets and financing of the political parties and adopt legislation insulating financial crime and anti-corruption investigations from political intervention in individual cases.
Moreover, in collaboration with the OECD, the Authorities will:
- Strengthen controls in public entities and especially SOEs. Empower the Line Ministries to perform robust audit and control inspections to supervised entities including SOEs.
- Strengthen controls and internal audit processes in high spending Local Government Institutions and their supervised legal entities.
- Strengthen controls in public and private investment cases funded either by national or co-funded by other sources, public works and public procurement (e.g. in health sector, SDIT).
- Strengthen transparency and control processes and skills in tax and customs authorities.
- Assess major risks in the public procurement cycle, taking in consideration the recent developments (Central Purchasing and e-Procurement: KHMDHS and ESHDHS) and the need to have a clear governance framework. Develop strategy according to the assessment(Q4 2015)
- Implement strategy to mitigate public procurement risks.(Q1 2016)
- Assess 2 specific sectors, Health and Public Works in order to understand the existing constrains related to corruption and waste risks and propose measures to address them. Develop and implement strategy. (Q4 2015)
6. Tax administration
Take the following actions to:
- Adopt legislation to establish an autonomous revenue agency, that specifies: (i) the agency’s legal form, organization, status, and scope; (ii) the powers and functions of the CEO and the independent Board of Governors; (iii) the relationship to the Minister of Finance and other government entities; (iv) the agency’s human resource flexibility and relationship to the civil service; (v) budget autonomy, with own GDFS and a new funding formula to align incentives with revenue collection and guarantee budget predictability and flexibility; (vi) reporting to the government and parliament; and (vii) the immediate transfer of all tax- and customs-related capacities and duties and all tax- and customs-related staff in SDOE and other entities to the agency.
- on garnishments, adopt legislation to eliminate the 25 percent ceiling on wages and pensions and lower all thresholds of €1,500 while ensuring in all cases reasonable living conditions; accelerate procurement of IT infrastructure to automatize e-garnishment; improve tax debt write-off rules; remove tax officers’ personal liabilities for not pursuing old debt; remove restrictions on conducting audits of tax returns from 2012 subject to the external tax certificate scheme; and enforce if legally possible upfront payment collection in tax disputes.
- amend (i) the 2014–15 tax and SSC debt instalment schemes to exclude those who fail to pay current obligations and introduce a requirement for the tax and social security administrations to shorten the duration for those with the capacity to pay earlier and introduce market-based interest rates; the LDU and KEAO will assess by September 2015 the large debtors with tax and SSC debt exceeding €1 million (e.g. verify their capacity to pay and take corrective action) and (ii) the basic instalment scheme/TPC to adjust the market-based interest rates and suspend until end-2017 third-party verification and bank guarantee requirements.
- adopt legislation to accelerate de-registration procedures and limit VAT re-registration to protect VAT revenues and accelerate procurement of network analysis software; and provide the Presidential Decree needed for the significantly strengthening the reorganisation of the VAT enforcement section in order to strengthen VAT enforcement and combat VAT carousel fraud. The authorities will submit an application to the EU VAT Committee and prepare an assessment of the implication of an increase in the VAT threshold to €25.000.
- combat fuel smuggling, via legislative measures for locating storage tanks (fixed or mobile);
- Produce a comprehensive plan with technical assistance for combating tax evasion which includes (i) identification of undeclared deposits by checking bank transactions in banking institutions in Greece or abroad, (ii) introduction of a voluntary disclosure program with appropriate sanctions, incentives and verification procedures, consistent with international best practice, and without any amnesty provisions (iii) request from EU member states to provide data on asset ownership and acquisition by Greek citizens, (iv) renew the request for technical assistance in tax administration and make full use of the resource in capacity building, (v) establish a wealth registry to improve monitoring.
- develop a costed plan for the promotion of the use of electronic payments, making use of the EU Structural and Investment Fund;
- Create a time series database to monitor the balance sheets of parent-subsisdiary companies to improve risk analysis criteria for transfer pricing
7. Financial sector
Adopt: (i) amendments to the corporate and household insolvency laws including to cover all debtors and bring the corporate insolvency law in line with the OCW law; (ii) amendments to the household insolvency law to introduce a mechanism to separate strategic defaulters from good faith debtors as well as simplify and strengthen the procedures and introduce measures to address the large backlog of cases; (iii) amendments to improve immediately the judicial framework for corporate and household insolvency matters; (iv) legislation to establish a regulated profession of insolvency administrators, not restricted to any specific profession and in line with good cross-country experience; (v) a comprehensive strategy for the financial system: this strategy will build on the strategy document from 2013, taking into account the new environment and conditions of the financial system and with a view of returning the banks in private ownership by attracting international strategic investors and to achieve a sustainable funding model over the medium term; and (vi) a holistic NPL resolution strategy, prepared with the help of a strategic consultant.
8. Labour market
Launch a consultation process to review the whole range of existing labour market arrangements, taking into account best practices elsewhere in Europe. Further input to the consultation process described above will be provided by international organisations, including the ILO. The organization and timelines shall be drawn up in consultation with the institutions. In this context, legislation on a new system of collective bargaining should be ready by Q4 2015. The authorities will take actions to fight undeclared work in order to strengthen the competitiveness of legal companies and protect workers as well as tax and social security revenues.
9. Product market
Adopt legislation to:
- implement all pending recommendations of the OECD competition toolkit I, except OTC pharmaceutical products, starting with: tourist buses, truck licenses, code of conduct for traditional foodstuff, eurocodes on building materials, and all the OECD toolkit II recommendations on beverages and petroleum products;
- In order to foster competition and increase consumer welfare immediately launch a new competition assessment, in collaboration and with the technical support of the OECD, on wholesale trade, construction, e-commerce and media. The assessment will be concluded by Q1 2016.The recommendations will be adopted by Q2 2016.
- open the restricted professions of engineers, notaries, actuaries, and bailiffs and liberalize the market for tourist rentals ;
- eliminate non-reciprocal nuisance charges and align the reciprocal nuisance charges to the services provided;
- reduce red tape, including on horizontal licensing requirements of investments and on low-risk activities as recommended by the World Bank, and administrative burden of companies based on the OECD recommendations, and (ii) establish a committee for the inter-ministerial preparation of legislation. Technical assistance of the World Bank will be sought to implement the easing of licensing requirements.
- design electronic one-stop shops for businesses through analysing information obligations businesses have to comply with, structuring them accordingly and helping to design a project on developing the necessary ICT tools and infrastructure (Q3 2015). Setting up the institutional & co-ordination structure, identification of the business life events to be included, identification and mapping of information obligations & administrative procedures and training of officials (Q4 2015). Launch (Q1 2016)
- adopt the reform of the gas market and its specific roadmap, and implementation should follow suit.
- take irreversible steps (including announcement of date for submission of binding offers) to privatize the electricity transmission company, ADMIE, or provide by October 2015 an alternative scheme, with equivalent results in terms of competition, in line with the best European practices to provide full ownership unbundling from PPC, while ensuring independence.
On electricity markets, the authorities will reform the capacity payments system and other electricity market rules to avoid that some plants are forced to operate below their variable cost, and to prevent the netting of the arrears between PPC and market operator; set PPC tariffs based on costs, including replacement of the 20% discount for HV users with cost based tariffs; and notify NOME products to the European Commission. The authorities will also continue the implementation of the roadmap to the EU target model prepare a new framework for the support of renewable energies and for the implementation of energy efficiency and review energy taxation; the authorities will strengthen the electricity regulator’s financial and operational independence;
10. Privatization
- The Board of Directors of the Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund will approve its Asset Development Plan which will include for privatisation all the assets under HRDAF as of 31/12/2014; and the Cabinet will endorse the plan.
- To facilitate the completion of the tenders, the authorities will complete all government pending actions including those needed for the regional airports, TRAINOSE, Egnatia, the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki and Hellinikon (precise list in Technical Memorandum). This list of actions is updated regularly and the Government will ensure that all pending actions are timely implemented.
- The government and HRADF will announce binding bid dates for Piraeus and Thessaloniki ports of no later than end-October 2015, and for TRAINOSE ROSCO, with no material changes in the terms of the tenders.
- The government will transfer the state's shares in OTE to the HRADF.
- Take irreversible steps for the sale of the regional airports at the current terms with the winning bidder already selected."
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And the market being incapable of comprehending that this will never be passed by either The Troika or The Greek government explodes higher...
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Pathetic.
What a shitshow...
Awesome. Did Tsipras get a new G-5 out of the deal or something? Maybe some French whores? Because he sure did fold like a cheap GS bankster...
Voting doesn't matter in a bankrupt, fascist debt "union".
Not until bankers publicly hang.
they took him into a room, and showed him the zapruder film.
I wouldn't be suprised if we in the coming weeks will see the house of parliament in Athens in flames..
Watchin Tsipras' face during the Farage speech posted here earlier today: he looked like worm in hot rock. Clearly the speech shamed him. Now we know why. This also lends credence to the report that he never intended the vote to go OXI.
No wonder why Mr Varoufakis resigned, He knew Tsipras was going to fold and commit the Greeks to slavery. People need to hang him for treason.
Makings of a civil war in Greece.
Hunt down Tspira like a dog and tattoo the first issued Drachma on his forehead. Just an idea for the rioters...
The Future Of Greece Is With BRICS
Nigel Farage for the next Greek PM?
Hey, its been nearly 2 hours since the Greek Parliament was to 'vote' at 6AM on this new/old deal.
How's the vote going this morning in Greece ?
That should be amazing to watch.
Lots of bullshit and hatred in these comments here. You all are watching from a safe distance with no skin the game. No wonder, it is oh so easy for you to mock someone who is pressured to the hilt by the ECB/IMF/EU and the realisties on the ground of a starving, desperate population. I guess you all would have done way, way better, you fu**ing armchair generals. LMAO, you are all just a bunch of useless blabbering morons
You're damn right I would have done much better. The man was elected to represent the people of Greece. Could the will of the people be more fucking explicit? How fucking hard is it to read the results of a referendum that HE called, and then do his fucking job? Leave ZH to the critcal, logical, awakened adults and stop embarassing yourself.
None of you fucks even read the article.
Talk about "level of detail."
Probably Germans who wrote that for Prince Tsyprus actually.
So again...
We'll see if they cut he check to it.
"Quality Bullshit" that's fer sure.
NOW SHUT UP AND PET THE FERRET!
This gives the average Greek time to grab more money [if he can] and hide it or buy hard assets with it. The smart ones moved their money out two-three years ago when both BBC and Reuters reported the flood of Greeks driving up to northern Europe with their cash and/or gold coins/bars to hide in safe deposit boxes. In fact, i remember the interview with some bank manger up in the Netherlands who said they were adding several thousand boxes the demand was so high from these Greeks.
Obviously they need some cash on hand for daily purchases but I'm talking about wealth preservation for the middle-to-upper class Greek person. They all need to re-read Fergusson books, "When Money Dies" and learn how to handle this.
http://www.amazon.com/When-Money-Dies-Devaluation-Hyperinflation/dp/1586...
... and for you cheapskates here it is for FREE! in pdf:
http://thirdparadigm.org/doc/45060880-When-Money-Dies.pdf
i thought the same fucking thing watching him...
him biting his lip , looking glassy eyed and and almost like he wished Nigel hadnt said what he said....
what a bitch.
KS, did you expect a newly elected prime minister from the left of the political spectrum, who has consistently voiced his anti-austerity policies within a reformed and democratic Europe to feel confortable with the views of a newly defeated politician of the right (some would say the extreme right) who leads a one cause (Brexit) political party ? (/rhe)
no, i expected him to do what Don Corleone would have expected him to do....
"YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN!"
instead he pulled a Fredo.....and remember what happened to Fredo when he took sides against the family??????
fucking disgrace to his people...
KS
Totally agree with you! He now finds himself in way over his head, and with the energy minister and military head at odds with his acquiescence, he will either be deposed or dead. Watch for the military to take over and go BRICS bank.
AD
know your enemy
Insanity's reaching new peaks
Tsipras has sold out the Greeks
The mandate they gave
Was not to enslave
I'm shocked if he lasts a few weeks
Can't see why all minds are spinning
The banksters as always are winning
The SYRIZA lies
Statism in disguise
Was clear from the very beginning
While I can understand when people are disappointed, I have really zero understanding for the hatred and bashing against tsipras. You guys here all sit nice and cosy in your armchairs, you do NOT face a starving, depressed, desperate people. You do NOT have to face the fat, dogmatic neoliberals and neocons in Brussels and Berlin when they send you back empty-handed week after week knowing full well that it's you, not them who has to face the ensuing chaos when no deal gets struck. You have NO skin in the game. What of course, makes it so much much easier to judge and to condemn. Listen up, you bloody armchair strategists: Before you call Tsipüras names and before you outline how tough YOU would deal with those banksters, I invite you to come to Greece, live there fore couple months with no money, with no job, listen to the people there and then we can talk again. before that, all your bashing - and that includes Mr Tyler Durden - is meaningless, disgusting bullsh!t.
Bravo !! one of your very best !
Nah, just his bank book.
Exactly. The vote went the wrong way, so they just pretend it didn't happen.
What a surprise - draw all this attention to a vote and then when people get distracted again, ram through the original plan anyway to never write off debt and keep the global ponzi-fest running smoothly on the tracks.
OXI!!! ...?
"privatisation all the assets"
as we've said all along. Greek will not be alowed to leave, until they have been fully liquidated. Hmmm, who are the faschists in line for this 'privatization' opportunity. I guarantee it's not the investing Greek public.
I like to hear from the local coin shops in Greece. Are they selling out of phyz or are most of the people still hoping to get 'their' euros back?
"Cash premium"
Move along....
Next stop, Greek parliament rejects, Syriza disintegrates, "West" attempts color revolution:
Ukraine in Greece: How the globalists will play the coming Greek disorder (+ a P.S.)Sad. Will it be UN, NATO or Germany that rolls into Athens first ?
If this gets passed by Greek Parliament I'd be amazed given all the water under the bridge.
I expect to see Tsipras at a ho' money investment firm after stepping down.
Anyway, it went exactly as many of us predicted some time ago. There would be a deal just as the clock chimed at midnight. Most of this was just pure unadultered fear porn for the masses anyway.
Now will ZeroHedge for the love of rainbows, lollipops and little green elves please stop posting non-ending articles about Greece? As long as the CTRL ALT PRINT button works Greece is not going to default.
Braveheart quote: I hope you washed your ass this morning, it's about to be kissed by a king.
Could it be that Tsipras is following a Trotskyist tactic: revolution can only come about when the people have nothing left to loose? If true, Merkel is walking straight into his trap, demanding ever harsher terms after each passing deadline, while Tsipras continues to knowingly offer insufficient compromises to her.
It has been obvious to me, ever since he sacked his Finance Minister and replaced him with a kindred socialist spirit, someone who he could contro,l that he is merely another sociopathic leech. If you saw his deadpan lack of reaction to the encouragement from supportive members of the EU parliment, (Farage, LePenn, et al), encouraging him to "Pull it!", it woud have been obvious that Greece was in for another reaming from one of its own. Just another troug-slurping pig of a politician.
fall to your knees and worship the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords
ALL politicians are at best criminals and at worst psychopathic pedarasts.
Everything the MSM puts before you is a lie.
which part of NO did they not understand?
They don't care. Difference.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
SPOILER ALERT: The beatings will never stop...
“If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.” George Orwell.
P.S. I think you are going to want to check this site out if you haven't already Cog...
http://redefininggod.com/understanding-the-nwo-strategy/
Thanks for this site Zero.
Now, for the second time, I have followed your link there and come away with a tight gut. If this perspective is true, and from all I have seen, not much flawed logic from the examples given; i.e. uni- v. multi-. I can remember reading some of those quotes and asking myself why are they using such specific language?
Here is my question: If the BRICS NWO is the true new order and Pax Americana is the IWO, will the Chineese crash be followed by gold backing to set the example so that when the US opens the vaults to back themselves they are backed into a tomb?
That question may be a bit convoluted, but after that article and a bourbon, I may be a bit off kilter.
Your welcome. Sorry I missed you earlier.
They are similar quotes because they are all issued the same talking points that are derived from focus group research to make sure it sells. Obama (Davis) always speaks from a teleprompter with his carefully scripted words.
Gold backing will be a major selling point for the muttonheads to accept an IMF-SDR based global currency. This currency will be issued not initially as a replacement for national and supranational currencies but in addition to them. Could even be like Aurum with gold inside it becasue all they realy want right now is the global structure in place. (TPP anyone?) Then they will debase the national currencies again so that people prefer the IMF-SDR Phoenix. Heck if it's just a gold backed currency the gold probably won't even exist anyway because it's all a complete fuckingscam.
These guy are all Fabian societalists so they always move slowly. They have been planning this for decades or perhaps longer.
Complete Global control for eternity goes to a couple hundred families max so I really hope I'm wrong. But these intermarried Alpha Male/Female banker/elite families will probably eliminate all of the thousands of non-related sociopathic billionaires in the world first to stop any threat to them getting their rightful inheritance. Law of the jungle and animal nature after all... > The biological imperative has always been gain prefered access to resources and pass your genes on to the next generation. Then lock it down.
That is what the Old Testament is mostly about.
Lions always kill the cubs of the lionesses that are not theirs when they take over from the existing Alpha males... Chimp/Gorilla culture sometimes works the same. It's going to be a clusterfuck for everyone.
Time for some bourbon myself.
Greece 'before' (*)
Greece 'after' (0)
Germans playing Cornhole with no quarter asked and none given.
now thats FUNNY omg...lmao
of course this shit ( which as tyler pointed out above is the same fucking shit from a few weeks ago) is enough to fucking spike the s&p up 20 handles, and all european ''markets'' up 2 percent plus.
dont worry, tomorrow at around 4:01 pm et, we will here how it was rejected so that the stawk ''market'' wont be effected.
HANG THESE FUCKERS ALREADY!! AND FUCK THE GREEK GOVT FOR FUCKING CAVING LIKE A BUNCH OF FUCKING VAGINAS. CAME SO FAR ONLY TO FUCKING CAVE AND STAY IN THE FUCKING EURO U BASTARDS!!
Will it be good for 8% in the Chinese markets?
STOP YELLING!!!!!!!
just kidding im fucking pissed too....
DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS.
at least, bc greece matters again, of course if it was negative news, it wouldnt matter.
and the whole world is now fixed. voila!
WTF, what part of no don't they understand.
If the Greeks put those who drafted the new proposal in jail for failing to follow through with the wishes of the majority, it may send a message to other so called democracies including NATO members.
This is all a farce.
If the Greeks put those who drafted the new proposal to the sword for failing to follow through with the wishes of the majority, it may send a message to other so called democracies including NATO members.
A slight adjustmennt to your proposal.
Your final statement is true nonetheless.
The threat of incarceration is no longer enough to deter these sick fuck banksters.
Here comes the revolt...
If I may be allowed to repeat myself -
Nigel Farage was so fucking right (as in CORRECT).
Now wait a second...
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but for the down vote - there's this thing called "youtube" on this thing called the "internet". Use it to find out WHAT NIGEL HAS SAID for the last three years. Then, using what miniscule cognitive ability you may have, compare it to WHAT HAS HAPPENED. On a Venn Diagram, the intersecting set, you'll find, is quite large. This isn't a matter of opinion.
Don't worry Captain, those downvotes were probably the Mysterons...or the same fuckin' clowns on here who praise the U.K. Conservative party and believe Russia has invaded the Ukraine.
This is how civil wars get started - when government ignores the clearly and directly expressed will of the people.
"Well, she said 'no,' but really she meant 'yes.' I could just tell." -- Tsipras
it is. it's also the way political extremes collect votes.
but to stop these from seizing power, a new secret police needs to be established, to "protect people from themselves".
Throw in a hundred thousand boat refugees, too. Lotta angry people with empty stomachs.
None of the pensioners look very skinny, tho.
Futures are up on the news of Greek proposal being received. Can't wait for the crash to new lows for the week.
Tsipras should have included debt reduction of 30% at least if not 50% to have room for negotiation, he has the US and IMF on his side on debt cuts and even France and Italy could help. If Germany insited on no reduction it would mean a clear rupture between the US and Germany. Is he so afraid of Frau Merkel? This seems like a proposal he knows no one will like, his own people with OXI posters in the streets won't like it nor will the Troika like it...he should have stood with his people, in the end it's them that gave him the power and it's them that will take it away!
Agreed.
This proposal is designed to be rejected by the Greek parliament.
I doubt it. Pasok, ND and the OXI faction in Syriza together have enough votes to pass this, surely?
It may pass but what will happen to his popularity if he has to ally with ND and Pasok to get a deal? Sure should be great for his future as Prime Minister making a deal with the opposition without the support of your own ruling party!
Plus it's far from certain if Merkel will accept this offer!
Politicians live hand to mouth: if Tsipras gets to live another day as prime minister he'll play it by ear from there. If he gets to stay in government he'll probably just roll the dice and hope for some kind of economic recovery and/or debt restructuring by the Troika before he leaves office.
And thereby ignore the will of the people who voted 5 days ago? No.
This proposal either by design or accident will not be ratified by the Greek parliament. I suspect that thisis why the proposal was drafted that way.
What? They go against the democratic vote?
Greek people you have been betrayed, democracy has been crushed by bankster bullies
If Tsipras's new proposal does not request a very substantial debt haircut when he already knows that Greece's debt levels are unsustainable, he cannot be serious.
If I was in Greece, I would refuse to comply with anything in this proposal as it is undemocratic!
No wonder Varoufakis resigned, he knew what they were going to do if they 'lost' to the OXI vote
Greece did not appear to vote no on either EUrope or the Euro interestingly.
Certainly the Diktat of Brussels though.
We'll see what happens here.
I have wondered and researched "Why Crete?" In Third Reich History.
That sounds DEFENSIVE to me....
dont need to worry about that :)
It does back up the theory that Tspira's did not plan to win the referendum, but now he's commiting a complete betrayal of the Greek people.
He might end up strung up from a lamp post at this rate, this is outrageous even for EU style democracy.
SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS WAS THE HANK PAULSON "ASK."
(That bid was accepted by no less than the United States CONGRESS.)
If "EUROPA" wants to even be in the ballpark to backstop a "Bank of Greece" then I say the number has to be at least that big.
I really don't think this is "total insanity" either.
Europe has "the American Experience."
The other side of that "trade" is Greece is cut loose to Britian, the Russians and the USA.
So yes...indeed there will be news here.
GREECE MATTERS.
Huh? "Cut loose" to the Russians makes sense . . .they have the energy and audacity to benefit, but what the hell would US or GB have to do with Greece? What, would we repackage their debt into CDOs and turn dog shit into ice cream?
Actually, now that Merkel/Lagarde et. al. have had a close up look at default, they obviously have decided that it can be easily weathered. And forget about writing off debt that doesn't come due for years anyway.
Political contagion is the real risk, regardless of the outcome.
So much for the Left.
We are living in the Matrix, where's that fucking cat?
The Greek proposal doesn’t appear to cover debt relief. But apparently, Athens has also released one of its ‘non-papers’ to the media, explaining that they are also seeking “regulation’ of debt” and the €35bn investment package promised by Jean-Claude Juncker.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/09/greek-crisis-reform...
Germany and Merkel will decide.
Only they can cut a check this big.
I read it as "here's what we will do in return for 30% debt relief"
Tsipras folded big time.. Pathetic!!
Hopefully fully the Germans say nein to the deadbeats.
Schuld? Schiess! NEIN!NEIN!NEIN!
Tsipras figures his best bet is to give Schaeuble a coronary.
"If reports are correct, Victoria Nuland has already paid a visit to the Greek prime minister and explained to him that he is neither to leave the EU or cozy up to the Russians or there will be consequences, polite language for overthrow or assassination. Indeed, the Greek prime minister probably knows this without need of a visit."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greeces-sovereign-debt-crisis-the-losers-ar...
recent US coup attempts in Macedonia
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2015/05/19/us-attempted-c...
Ecuador
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2015/07/06/us-orchestrate...
Armenia
http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/189652/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/coups-and-color-revolutions-us-wages-geopol...
little doubt the US helped Chechen terrorists, and is supporting Al Qaeda and puppeteer, for its Zionist masters, "ISIS"
Really, its probably a few dozen neocons, almost all Jewish and Zionist, who are responsible for a disproportionate share of the warmongering.
Perhaps Christ in His Mercy will start killin' some of these muthafuckas.
They have certainly murdered enough innocent people around the world with their "politics."
They deserve *punishment*.
Israel’s Religious Hatred Is Branching Out - While most extremism with Jewish extremist roots targets the Palestinian and Muslim communities, a fire that recently burned through one of Israel’s most historic Catholic churches may be a sign that religious hatred is branching out.
*****
http://www.mintpressnews.com/church-burning-and-racism-is-this-israels-n...
Was Vickie packing her .50 cal Barrett during her "consultations"?
I was just thinking, 'this is Part One....Part Two will be the Ask.'
Rejected proposal spikes spoos 1% for the 15th time in the last month. I stopped reading after I saw the growth projections. HaHaHaHaHa I can't stop laughing.
Seriously where have all the sane people gone. Its just unbelievable.
So nothing Nigel Farage said meant a thing to Tsipras....what a coward.
ZHers, I'm surprised with the affinity to Nigel Farage who's already history in his own country - the conservatives outsmarted him
He is nearly as popular as Putin here.....
Yeh, some people are suckers for politicians that tell the truth!
'Conservatives' and 'outsmarted', that's an oxymoron.
So Syriza finally agreed to all the institutions' demands. In other words, the institutions could easily have asked for much more in full confidence they would have gotten it.
Repudiation of all those pensions would be good for a start. Kindly inform useless Greeks that the care and feeding of their elderly mothers is now their responsibility. Watch them go back to work full time, no "debt relief" necessary.
According to the Guardian, debt relief forms part of another document
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/09/greek-crisis-reform...
Debt relief my arse! Let's have them cough up all that cash they've been sticking under their mattresses all these months.
Numbskull, €325 billion Greece owes cannotbe repaid without some debt relief.
EZ taxpayer is going tohave to pony up €35 billion in debt relief which Greece is seeking.
Ze beatings will continue...until morale improves!
Everyone in Europe at 1 time or other, has been to Greece and had their pockets picked, their rooms robbed, or had someone in the family molested or rolled. Greeks being Greeks.
Europe wants them out...period.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFtrWHhpgg
60% might not want the deal but 81% want the Euro. If Syriza bring in the Drachma they will be hunted by 81% of their own citizens. If they backflip on the referendum they'll be hunted by only 60% of the citizens. This must have been the troika strategy, strangle Syriza with the bank holiday and humiliate them into an impossible decision; heads they win, tales you lose. These people have power beyond anything I've witnessed in my short lifespan. I hope I live to see the day where bankers heads are carried on sharp sticks.
Great theater...villains, heros and the fat lady from germany preparing to sing...
Oh, the humanity lol
HA! Why arent I surprised? Kabuki theater, ALL OF IT. Man, I got a serious Clockwork Orange Palvovian reaction to the word "democracy". Makes me physically ill when i read/hear/see it.
why have an election if you do not follow the result?...good luck implementing this
Trade for Puerto Rico indeed.
its already expensive to go to Greece on vacation compared to other similar destinations bcs of the Euro.....now it will be even more expensive with taxhikes on tourism
Oh, fuck it! I'm not gonna read all that, these people must be retarded.
The (German) beatings will continue until (Greek) morale improves!
Idiocracy at its' finest.
the protagonists need to save face - it has been agreed (the documents were written by the french to avoid tos and fros and misunderstandings) - what? the proverbial can mighty-ly kicked - until gradually and in a controlled manner the old guard (as per merkel / schauble / junker et al) is replaced by a more "sensitive" lot.
it does include billions in investment money and billions in debt relief - talking heads will use the "humanitarian aid" phrase lots
re markets (that I have my AI to deal with thus don't care much myself) will pop and drop and then pop and drop some more
all in all everything is awesome! (again)
Trade records show a spike in the import of French "tools" to Greece.
This is how I would PERMANENTLY solve "the greek problem":
1. Remove of ALL the parasites, ie the communists, socialists, politicians, bureaucrats, hyper-bloated government employees, and government pensioners.
2. End ALL taxes on income PERMANENTLY, use only sales taxes
3. End ALL entitlement programs PERMANENTLY, earn your own in the free-market or get recycled
4. Make English the national language with Greek relegated to museum use
5.Enact ABSOLUTELY STRICT bank secrecy laws - FUCK the USA regime's financial repression & oppression
5. Open Greece up for entrepreneurs worldwide who want to reside in, start/run businesses in country with NO income taxes, NO entitlement programs
People, capital and businesses will flood in from all over the world, economy will rocket up to world-leading level, plenty of income to pay off debts, plus create a good place to live and work.
Yup! Burn the bodies of the dead dependents, and move on.
Harsh? You bet!
Necessary for the survival of the human race? Absolutely!
I may be one of them burnt, but it's still necessary.
All he probably did was secure himself an unelected euro-seat somewhere... because as slimy as Greek politics are, he's finished there if this goes through.
TPTB know that it's primarily the far left that riot and burn the cities... what better way to control the outcome than to consolidate them under a common group and then have their own front man sell them down the river... too humiliated to retaliate.. and against whom?
Genius
Over two months ago I concluded that Syriza rhetoric and her deeds cannot be rationally reconciled and hence my confidence in the new Greek government was shattered. Syriza continuing claims and representations that Greece is facing financial and economic problem that could be negotiated on equitable terms without leaving Eurozone, against obvious reality of situation, was nothing but appalling attempt to deceive her own constituency.
This is not about economics, never was, it is all about German conquest of Europe though economic, monetary and financial means instead of bombs which they tried already many times before in Europe and elsewhere.
To even start discussion we have to state the fact that this whole EU/EURO thing is run by Armani suit gangsters leading by Merkel Liverwurst Queen and Schauble Capo di tutti Capi who in concert with local Greek thugs have been looting Greece national treasures for decades and this is just current chapter of the playbook of exploitation.
It is disturbing that only few seem to truly want to write epilogue to the disgusting book of human suffering or propose viable alternative.
There were forces in Greece that challenged such corrupted state of affairs but were brutally suppressed by invasion of British Marines in support for pro-Hitler fascist regime embedded in, fused with recalcitrant oligarchic-theocratic Greek state in early 1940-ties. From there it only got worse.
Below there is a quote from my comment from few days ago which attempts to explain apparent puzzling moves by Syriza including motivation for whole this unintelligible referendum.
The Syriza violated their own manifesto many times during last several months perhaps living many with impression that it is nothing but a fake political entity negotiating cash deal for their own leaders while collapsing their own country like many political parties in Greece before. And that how Merkel sees it, angry that they refuse payoff so far and hence she pushes unreasonable political demands and instigate aggressive interference into Greek democratic process and internal affairs using methods liken to economic terrorism, blatantly illegal under EU treaty. Even US is calling for sanity in this German aggression it only because that they fear that Greeks could eventually switch sides and move into alliances with her eastern countries braking up aggressive Calderon around Russia.
As I said before on ZH no Greek blood on the street no revolution against EU totalitarianism disguised as chocking brotherly love.
Tsipras has already sold out Greek nation and just seem not to have courage to admit it yet that his promises while were nice songs to Greeks ears were unrealistic considering the EU mafia he had to deal with. Now after firing Varoufakis one thing left for him surrender and receive payoff for breaking young Greeks heart.
As I said before, no Greek blood on the street no revolution against EU totalitarianism disguised as chocking brotherly love.
Sure, you can dump a TL;DR, but that doesn't make you right.
Just give me facts. Prove me wrong. Which point number I make is wrong? I copy almost the same comment about Greece for many days to different ZH posts written mostly by apologists for EU or Syriza or both and nobody gave me any fact that contradict what I say. Be the first. Facts please no trolling. And your one sentence empty comment will never make you right.
Sure, one hour of facts and solutions by the 'Einstein' of economics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNItYoJhgmk
Make sure you watch it till the end.
Obviously, this was a complete rope-a-dope of the Greek people. I thought that they were a backward country but didn't believe that they were spineless fools. They must enjoy serving the Reich. We'll see how much they like it when the jackboots are on their throats.
Scatha, you are an ignorant hypocrite.
You like to pick on Germans, and yet it is the Germans alone, that have given EACH Greek person 5,000 Euros of hard cold cash. In fact Europe has given Greece some 50,000 Euros per man, woman and child over the years. When are you Greeks are going to take responsibililty for your debts! How much more money do you want to steal? 50,000 Euros for every single man, woman and child, and yet you complain. What a cry baby you are.
You like history it appears, well what about Greek financial history? Greece for the last 200 years has been begging, borrowing and stealing. They have yet paid one debt in total that they have borrowed in 200 years! Every time they get into trouble paying their debts, they cry bankruptcy or for debt haircuts. And also your favourite persuit, blaming the Turks and Germans for financial incompetencies....please! Cry me another river. When are you greeks are going start treating all the rest of Europe as equals? You cry about your pensions, and yet you don't give a damn about how the pensioners in the rest of Europe are paying for your very own pensions.
For 2,500 years Greeks has been stealing from every body. Greeks are natural thieves. 2,500 years ago, when Athens became top dog over Sparta after defeating the Persians, the Greeks started their stealing ways, with Pericles, arguably the greatest crook in history. Using the Delian League, more out of blackmail, Athens forced every member to contribute enormous sums for protection. It was without doubt one of the largest protection racquets the world has ever seen. Delos became vault of all the gold and silver that the Athenians hoarded, thank you Pericles! And then what did he do? Use the money for the betterment of ALL Greeks? NO! Use all this money for the poor or for pensions? Perish the thought...NO! No, Pericles like any good Mafia God Father, first concocted a story to move the mountain of gold to Athens, and then decided to go on a building spree. You know all those things you Greeks take pride in? The Parthenon, Acropolis and all those other Temples? They are all proceeds of crime. Pericles the crook, used all the money from the Delian League to build Greek Temples. And so what happened, of course, the Delphian Leauge collapsed. And soon to follow Greece lost the entire western city states of what is now Turkey. Well done! And for the next 2,500 years, you Greeks have been plying your thieving skills on every sucker that makes it your way, latest being the European Union.
Scatha, you are selfish, arrogant, ignorant and a racist. You don't tell the truth. You hide behind bias, your selfish with your facts. This is why Greece must now pay, and pay HARD. You have had 2,500 years of stealing, and you never ever learn. From time to time, some people come and punish you, Romans, Ottomans and recently Nazi Germans. But these are only hand-slaps you have incurred compared to what Greeks have done throughout history to others;
- You stole from your own people and used funds for selfish aggrandizement.
- You are prepared to steal from non greek people by defaulting on your debts to protect bums, useless workers and backward niggards.
- You lie about everything including your own history; Macedonia was never Greek, it had its own government, own language (not even close to greek), own people, in fact, Alexander the Great hated Greece, he was a proud Macedonian, that's why he CONQUEARED GREECE, finishing the job his father started. In fact, it was a MACEDONIAN (that is Macedonian from Macedonia the country, not the province in Greece), that united Greece. You should be paying homage to the FYR of Macadeonia!
- You are a very selfish people. The way you treat Bulgarians, Macedonians and Albanians inside your borders, is perfect example, these are crimes against humanity, and yet no body does anything.
Oh lastly, democracy wasn't invented by Greeks. The word "democracy" was only invented by greeks, not the political system. Greek Democracy is Plutocracy. 2,500 years ago, Greek democracy was about slavery, women forced to stay at home, and greek elitist landholders deciding for the masses, that is a plutocracy, not democracy. But then again, that's what Greeks are good at too, changing the meanings of words.
Scatha, you are a disgrace, not to your people, for Greeks are disgraceful, you are a disgrace to the human race. For 2,500 years Greeks have been cheating, lying and stealing their way. Every body who goes to Greece know how it is like there, as soon as you walk into a Hotel or store, the rascist acts begin, one price for greeks another price for non-greeks (for instance, you walk into a hotel and you know what the price for a room is for you just checked it on the internent when a Greek at the desk picks you for an obvious tourist and the price goes up 100 Euros, and you end up saying no and decide to walk the streets all night or sleep under a tree, how many times have I heard this in Greece - absolutely disgraceful). Today Greece is a Plutocratic Kleptocracy, and you deserve no sympathy.
So before you crooks in Greece ask about WWII reparations from Germany, or stupid requests from the Ottoman Turks, how about giving back all the gold and silver you stole from the cities in Turkey to build all those Temples you have in Greece? Before you ask Europe to treat you humanely as far as austerity goes, how about treating the Bulgarians, Algerians and Macedonians in your own country more humanely by not subjugating them to austere practices that you don't apply to your own Greek people.
You want equality... then...PAY UP YOU GREEK THIEVES!
YOU WANT RESPECT GREEECE....THEN EARN IT!
Your troll meter went out of scale, call 911 or take some pill. What makes you think that I have anything, anything at all, to do with Greeks. You are hallucinating. You are totally mistaken, imprisoned in your own wild imagination, short on logic and facts. Break free from your own bias and see the world as it is.
And if you read and understood anything I wrote in my comment, of course you did not, you would have noticed that I have no agenda. I am extremely critical about all sides in this regrettable story including Greeks and their corrupted system of governance. But if you had something reasonable to say it would disrupt your baseless rants that you enjoy so much.
There is ONLY one side to be critical of here....the greeks! Picking on the Europeans for GIVING is not being fair, it is being greedy. The Greeks AND ONLY the Greeks need to fix this by honouring their debts and start living, acting, respecting other societies, cultures and people who give them money. You are trying to paint this into a two way blame game. WRONG! This is one way, and only one way, the Greeks are to blame FULL STOP You communists are very good at deflecting responsibility and blame when it is time to pay the Piper. Wow, Europeans who GIVE you money WHEN YOU GREEK BEG for money are to blame, WOW! Talk about selfish, but that's all perfect Greek isn't it, the height of selfishness.
Go back to your drachma and stay there! If you want to be part of the EURO...HONOUR YOUR DEBTS...AND START WORKING HONESTLY. ENOUGH OF THIS POOR BEGGAR MENTALITY. You want to know what real poverty is, go to your borders and see how you treat your own Albanians, Bulgarians and Macedonians. What a condescending ignorant racist you are. There is nothing to pitty of the Greeks, nothing! Pitty the poor Albanians, Macedonians and Bulgarians how the Greeks treat them. Time to own up Scatha, your country is living a lie. Time for Greece to own up! Time for Greece to pay up! Time for Greece to grow up! Time for Greece to stop talking, and start doing! 2,500 years has gone by and Greece has nothing to show for its self. How many more years must the world endure the Greek Tragedy filled with too many Sophists (like you Scatha), too many thieves (like Pericles and Tsipras), and too many cry babies who never earned their pensions (the entire Greek pensioners), how many more years?
You stated in an earlier comment you wanted facts. Well when facts are presented, you call them rants. Read my previous post, Greeks are great at changing definitions. Boy, didn't I call that one spot on! All you are doing Scatha, is proving everything I have said up to now. Thank you!
Keep it up Scatha....you showing the world exactly what you are....SELFISH, IGNORANT, GREEDY, AND BACKWARD...In short, A GREEK. Bravo! Game Set and Match to Cold-Pragmatism!
P.S: Hey Scatha! What did you do with your 50,000 Euros that we (rest of Europeans) gave you? You know that coffee you are drinking in the morning, those washing machines you have, how about that car you drive, you got someone in your family on a pension? Well I got news for you, YOU DIDN'T EARN IT. It was given to you by us in the Rest of Europe. Remember the Athens Olympic Games? You didn't pay for that, we did in the RoE. I hear Athens Public Transit is free now, guess who is pay for all your free public transit? RoE. You know that computer you are typing on, to do your posts for ZeroHedge, guess who paid for it, if you're in Greece, we did in RoE! Think about it Scatha, how is that you Greeks can't get more than 60 Euros out of the banks, or are running out of paper for newspapers, BUT the airplanes still land to bring tourists? I bet not a single Greek thought about that. Think about it, who is paying these millions in landing fees! The Military is doing fine too! Hey how are all those politicians getting around? It seems the Government is allowing someone to do business, all the thieves. You are being lied to even now, and you morons don't even know it. The signs are all around you, and you still don't see it or get it! You Greeks are too stupid to even understand your own Greek government is still stealing from you....and you want to blame RoE! We can now add stupidity on the list, Scatha. You people are Stupid, with a capital "S". Sheeesh...you people are dumb, REALLY REALLY DUMB.
I see Golden Dawn winning the next election. I see similar things coming in other EU countries. The EU's days are numbered.
I for one was had. I have done nothing but hope for this outcome. A greek OXI from my homeland. A rebirth from the ashes of the old banking regime with the drachma in play. Le sigh.. what a superb queef of a letdown.
Silly me for getting excited over this guy. What a fucking sellout bitch, cocksucker, piece of fraud fucking fuckshit. I hope the people of Greece hunt him down, hogtie his balls to his ankles, rape him in the ass with a huge bottle of olive oil and then stick feta cheese up his ass......... and then beat him to death. Fuck this guy.
Come on, don't hold back...say what you mean!
The exact opposite will happen. Support for Tsipras and Syriza has soared.
Looks like a good time for a little "color revolution" brought to you by your local American Think Tank.
Je Suis Tsipras!
Leftists do what leftists do: cave
Fuck this non tiewearing loser
Tsirpussy
I hope the Greaks take to the barricades over this betrayal
The member of FDJ (Freie Deutsche Jugend) Genossin Merkel hates NATO and hates EU.
Therefor she is keen to destroy both. She has chosen to use Greece and weaken both dinosaurs.
If voting really mattered, it would be made illegal.
Definition of insanity: doing the same things ad infinitum while expecting different results.
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Greece requests a debt relief. You have to read between the lines.
Guess what...the EU will accept this deal, Greece will never implement a word of it, and we'll do this again when they burn through this batch of cash
Yes, and why this has happened a 3rd time !
How is the 6AM Friday morning Greek Parliament vote going ?
Will that be put off until the last minute ?
I'd love to watch.
Tsipras is a typical corrupt politician. He cares only for himself and nothing for the Greek people or for Europe. He should be given an immediate vote of "No Confidence" by Parliment before they vote on this farce. Failure to do this will make complete fools af the Greek people in the eyes of the world. Tourists will abandon them and they won't even be able to sell yogurt.
Greece needs a good military junta - with backing from the CIA NSA and the usual suspects
1967, but they soon were pressured to return power of government to the civilians... it took like 6 years and a new leader to figure out how to return power to the people...
Update from Europe:
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" The US has clearly lost patience with the Europeans is now bringing its huge diplomatic power to bear, fearing that mistakes in Greece could lead to a geostrategic fiasco and serious damage to the Nato alliance.
“Greece’s debt is not sustainable,” said Jacob Lew, the US Treasury Secretary. “I think it’s a mistake for the European economy, the global economy, to take the risks that are involved with an uncontrolled crisis in Greece,” he said."
UK Telegraph states that Germany is backing down, offering extended maturities while USA is pushing for solition since USA is subject to fallout/Credit/Liquidity/Money Flow Problems...
Merkle Caves, IMF States must give in since debt is unsustainable.
People, witness here how democracy failed and how a country was brought to it's kneees by the Bankers.
Funny how France is getting plaudits in the press for going and getting America to stand on Merkel's toes.
Indeed Germany has 'given' a lot of money to Greece. They give $5,000 for a benifit of $20,000 that comes from trading with a Euro weaker than the DM would have been. And Greece sacrifices $xxxxx of trade because of a Euro 200% stronger than their drachma would have been.
Its nothing to brag about to say Germany gives Greece money in order to rape them and steal their income.
And of course the money is NOT given, it is leant at interest, and creates indentured slaves.
Seems to me Germany gets a great deal out of the euro and countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal etc....get absolutely zero, shrinking GDP, unemployment, and emergency lending from their local Troika Mafia Loan Shark.
If Germany wants respect, then STOP raping the weaker countries with the poisoned Euro and Mafia lending.
The German Finance Minister is like a rapist blaming his victim for bleeding and being such a mess. This cold-hearted brutalism of peoples seems to be a germanic trait, though some might like to call it cold-pragmatism.
Corpofascist USSA to help Greece.....again
Greece’s Secret Armies
"In late 1944, Winston Churchill ordered a secret Greek army created to prevent leftists from gaining power, called by various names, including the Greek Mountain Brigade, the Hellenic Raiding Force, or Lochos Oreinon Katadromon (LOK). Field Marshall Alexander Papagos excluded “almost all men with views ranging from moderately conservative to left wing,” assuring its members would be exclusively hard right anti-communists.
In 1952, Greece joined NATO and was fully integrated into its stay-behind network, the CIA and LOK reconfirming their mutual cooperation in a secret March 25, 1955 document, British journalist, Peter Murtagh, later learning that:
“The Raiding Force doubled as the Greek arm of the clandestine pan-European guerrilla network set up in the 1950s by NATO and the CIA which was controlled (in) Brussels by the Allied Coordination Committee.” It was a stay-behind force against a possible “Soviet invasion of Europe. It would co-ordinate guerrilla activities between Soviet occupied countries and liaise with governments in exile.”
According to former CIA agent Philip Agee, it also served as “a nucleus for rallying a citizen army against the threat of a leftist coup,” each of several groups “capable of mobilizing and carrying on guerrilla warfare with minimal or no outside direction.”
Agee also explained that “Paramilitary groups, directed by CIA officers, operated in the sixties throughout Europe,” stressing that “perhaps no activity of the CIA could be as clearly linked to the possibility of internal subversion.”
Evidence points to LOK’s involvement in the Greek April 20, 1967 coup, one month before national elections likely to have overwhelmingly elected the left-leaning George and Andreas Papandreou’s Center Union. Under NATO’s Prometheus plan, LOK took over the Defense Ministry. Tanks rolled through Athens, and rightist forces took control of communications centers, parliament, and the royal palace, arresting over 10,000. Many were later tortured and killed.
In 1990, the socialist opposition wanted a parliamentary investigation, denied by public order minister Yannis Vassiliadis, saying there was no need to examine such “fantasies,” meaning what happened was justified."
Onward to the collap$€!
http://www.constantinereport.com/natos-secret-armies-operation-gladio/
And while all this Greece - Troika nonsense is going on countries like Germany are absolutely loving the weakened euro it creates. Seems they cant lose.
Now if countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy get enough sense, and can elect leaders not puppets of Troika, and tell the Euro to go fuck itself, they actualy might have a chance to grown and compete one day.
That is entirely tactical. Now that the IMF and some EU leaders have admitted publicly that Greece needs debt relief/restructuring, without which the debt is not sustainable, Greece doesn't have to make it a condition in its own proposal. If the creditors offer of debt relief/restructuring is not to Tsipras' liking there won't be any deal.
Merkel has already offered him a debt restructuring, a third bailout package and an additional €35 billion in EU funded investments if he signed off on the deal offered by the euro-group shortly before the referendum was called. She admitted this to the SPD faction in Germany's Bundestag in a briefing last week. The referendum had nothing to do with not wanting to accept this deal, it was purely related to his own political survival.
Only certain thing in the Greece - Troika drama is that nothing is as it seems.