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The Latest Thing In China: Brokers Refusing Sell Orders
Just think of it as brokers doing you a favor: do you really want to be arrested for "malicious" selling?
Several friends in China have told me that brokers have refused their sell orders.
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec) July 10, 2015
So why even bother with the pretense of "markets", and not only in China, but in Japan, Europe, Switzerland, the US and everywhere else where central banks have directly injected $22 trillion in artificial liquidity in the past 7 years to keep the illusion afloat?
@markets when you have the State creating money to buy stocks and enacting draconian measures against selling, it's not a market anymore.
— Rudolf E. Havenstein (@RudyHavenstein) July 10, 2015
Think of how much more productive the economy will be if central banks assure that markets will close higher by 1% every day in perpetuity. Consider the amount of free time Wall Street's brilliant "financial engineers" will have to allocate to socially useful activities for once.
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That's far more efficient than having a PPT like us.
Doh!...There are two sides to a trade...So, if no one is allowed to sell, what may a buyer purchase?
Yeah... If you can't sell how does one buy?
The bigs get to sell off first. The plebs, next in line if ever. Every transaction needs a bag holder.
It's exactly this type of bold, out-of-the-box thinking that will drive China to be the greatest super power the world has ever seen, far eclipsing the United States or any world power than came before. The great hub of the world. All the benefits of swift, effective and decisive Communist leadership combined with the efficiency and fairness of capitalism and free markets.
I tell my children every night before they go to bed: If you want to be great, watch what China does. Every morning I wake up and the older one has locked his little brother in the closet and stolen his toys. I always tell him I'm very proud of him.
"Doh!...There are two sides to a trade...So, if no one is allowed to sell, what may a buyer purchase?"
Company will just keep issuing more Stawks----they will get the cash to spend and increase the eCONomy and you will get a nice looking peice of paper that you can never sell.
Wait - you can't even sell at a profit?
If that's true, that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Can't wait to hear Jim Rogers wiegh-in on this shit. . .
Don't you ever call me with a sell order again, YOU GOT IT!!
This shows what countries with stronger governments can achieve. During our last stock market crash, our congress was far too concerned with 'liberty' and 'non-intervention' to put a ban on short selling. In China, such laws are implemented without hesitation. I admire the Chinese government's decisiveness and strong will. If I were a politician, this is the kind of government I would like to be in charge of.
China, now with the worlds largest gated community
If you think China has a better system MDB, how about you move there, and let the rest of us "idiots" suffer without you.
"Don't you ever call me with a sell order again, YOU GOT IT!!"
Even though we didn't execute a trade on your behalf, you will still be charged the commission because you called and talked to us.
The value of a stock you can't sell is $0.00. How are prices not free-falling?
In china the market always go up. Is called the rocket market.
israel, off the radar, is NOT going to allow the palestinian state. think about that.
In China, stocks sell you.
we are all wrong to think that if stocks cant be sold, they cant be bought iether. Sheesh, you guys. Haven't you heard of rehypothecation?
Incorrect. The value of shit you cannot sell is the book value you use on your loan application or the reports you file with the regulators.
Everyone knows that.
Of course the collateral value has got to be zero at this point too. Would you loan someone money with Chinese stock as a guarantee? Christ, you might as well sign-over that bridge you own.
This will not affect the US buyers negatively in the least....
We have "Mark to Model" accounting. You just do your Accounting as if you were able to sell when you wanted, and both your Profits and Accounting will be adjusted accordingly. Oh, and you have 90 days to decide "When your Model would have you sell", retroactively.
The US government will send you a check should reality not corespond to the functioning of your "Model"....
FASB= "Fuck All Stupid Baby taxpayers"
... " If I were a politician ..."
... anagram for 'politician' ... 'I toil panic' ...
(singing)
Welcome to the Hotel California..................
They made their voluntary contribution to the elite. Who knows what the elite have planned for those who chose not to "invest". Maybe forced buying is next.
Q: If I can't sell how can I get my money out?
A: You can borrow against your equity.
Q: What if the stock price goes down?
A. That's ok, we'll just lower borrowing costs, lower margin requirements and print more money...debt doesn't matter anymore...in fact without more debt the world will blow up.
This shit can go on forever...they'll all just print more. It's so rigged and so criminal but no one will stand up to the all powerful governments. Do you hear that clanging sound...its the can being kicked. You'll hear that sound the rest of your life. As REM once said, its the end of the world as we know it.
Funny, I thought the clanging sound was the techs trying to get more Hellfire missiles mounted on the drone.
Once they have enough armed drones with drones for pilots who take orders from drone officers there will be no need for market "participants".
500,000,000 here we come.
Welcome to the ... Keynesian-Commie Hotel
Your acccount statement will always go up
But you can never cash out
If you try to sell
Your broker will tell you no
MDB
Your conclusions are amazingly poor. Please tell me you are being sarcastic. You applaud market intervention of this kind? Sounds like you want the United States to become more totalitarian like the Chinese.
Many believe that China's success is the result of superior long term planning by their government. When the truth is, China's success is simply the result of a shift from communism, which doesn't work, to fascism which incorporates just enough capitalism to be successful. Sure once in a while they do things that appear to be a good idea, but so too did the soviets.
If you read MDB more than five times and don't get the sarc, you will never get the sarc.
May the sarc be with you.
By the power of the sarc you may kiss the sarc.
I don't think it is sarc. If you would have read his comments over the years you would not come to that conclusion. He is more like a brainwashed govt slave if you ask me.
Either way sarc doesn't work well in comments, that's why people have to either make it very clear or actually write *sarc*, if not it's just trolling. I've seen MDB write stupid stuff over and over, so why would I think it was sarc. They may think it is clever but it just comes across as BS.
MDB has been here for years, and he writes in his inimitable "is that sarc or not" style.
His generally brazen statements remind me most of Paul Krugman's commentaries.
I remember him "breaking character" just once, confirming that he writes what he does just for fun, and to lampoon the statemonger mindset. That was back when ZH still had captcha and the "Nuke This Post" button instead of the up/down arrows.
He's Paul Krugman
Makes me wonder.....which zh'er is Jim Willie?
MDB
If you were a politician your strong government would be separating your head from your neck.
nodebt* was more original than you.
Colored coin technology would allow them to be their own brokers.
Crypto is the future.
This just in: Stratton Oakmont signs endorsement agreement with Xi Jinping: Opens new flagship office in Beijing.
How very communist!
A market in which making a profit has been banned, by decree!
Money, ... she go in ....................... aaaannnnnd! ........................... it's gone!
At least a bank normally gives it back again (once upon a time with interest).
Wasn't that once called inflation? ... @ 365 % per anum you say? ... except its also compounding ... lol.
We're not in Kansas anymore ... (wild guess but I think this may trigger some cartoons)
"they will get the cash to spend and increase the eCONomy and you will get a nice looking peice of paper that you can never sell."
That's a "yuan yaun" right there...
though a more elegant solution might have been to simply shoot the brokers
I feel like the end is accelerating. "The Great Reset is upon us". Get prepared.
It's a country which builds its own islands as it sees fit in the middle of the fucking ocean, for god's sake ! Do you believe for a second that the Chinese PTB would have any troubles intervening in their own market to make it sing and dance to the right tune ? They'll fix their market first, then they'll take a closer look at ours; now that's when things will become really interesting...
My guess is many wil learn ahard lesson and avoid stawks for years to come and move back into housing and/or gold.
And we know who the father of theft, murder and destruction is. International Socialism must be destroyed. Well put ND
All of free market capitalism is based on 'Price Discovery' (and I use the term "Free Market' in jest as we are clearly so far from it now that only a complete idiot would call what we have a real 'Free Market').
No selling allowed equals no 'Price Discovery.'
Or am I missing something.
This has to be the very definition of Full Retard.
this is total full retard.
Stop thinking of it as an investment strategy and makes more sense that fiat is weapon. It's not 'money', it's a weapon used to control and manage populations, shape optics and bribery to grease the skids. In this case, China didn't go full retard, they locked the western world out of their capital after 40 years of heavy investment. Just like the kike central banking system did to everyone else.
They are going to feel what their long term investment strategy over 30 years and we'll all be seeing the blow back of the Chinese government locking down trillions in operating captial and holding all the cards of the supply chains.
Since there is still a market SOMEONE is being allowed to sell. Obviously that is the IMPORTANT people. The little guy will be forced to sit tight until the market is down to zero.
What can they do about it, revolt? Those bastards have all the guns.
But the free market WILL be blamed and liberty will die with thunderous applause.
Price discovery died a long time ago, while you were asleep ! For details, ask Greenspan and Bernanke...
Buy High
Sell No
+100
You so succintly captured the insanity of it all in the fewest words possible. Three Hemingways to you sir.
"How does one buy?"
At gunpoint. Get bullish or go to the gulag.
Better yet, if you can not sell, how do you eat? Buy food with stocks? But wait... You can not sell them.
Good thing China's already bought the American pork industry. Hey at least we won't be eating deformed stink pig when TSHTF.
Just hope were not reduced to eating long pig when TSHTF.
At that point it'll be debatable which is worse I'm sure.
I think the better question is faced with the ability to "only buy" and never be allowed to sell, why would you buy in the irst place if your goal is to make profit. You don't book a profit until the buy / sell cycle is completed.
Just issue more shares. Only purchases can happen. It's a Keynsian dream. Perpetual growth. Brilliant!
Sort of...the problem is the stocks need buyers to go up. They've spooked the herd now and locked up all the capital of the wealthy. If they print more to buy more stock, they'll cut their own throats by furthering the acceleration of the devaluation of their fiat currencies which ends up being completely counter productive to the ability to purchase assets against the RMB.
Only thing the owners of the assets can do is used the locked up assets for a BIG loan at whatever interest rate the Chinese government decides (I bet it won't be sub 1% lol!). The rich have now put themselves in position to be just as poor and indebted as the populations they've screwed. China is now holding them all on a short and very expensive leash. Could see it coming from a mile away as well, yet the dumbasses fell for the monkey pot trick. They had the opportunity to back it up and they didn't. Meanwhile China holds all their considerable investments and supply chains hostage from decades of going low and the entire western world going whole hog.
Poetic justice I think.
Next: make stock purchases mandatory.
No need to make it "mandatory" as a visible punishment, when it can be implemented via means of direct deduction from the paycheck. Kinda like social security, except "stock security". Another tax.
Already happened in 1995 with the introduction of PPI, personal pension investments (RIFS, RRSP, 401k, mutual fund deregulation, etc). This is the end of the western civilzation in terms of economy for a really long time and it doesn't matter what country anymore. They've been whole hog secretly for decades to create the illusion of wealth and the primary reason now the only thing that they can do is print.
Issuing new shares for stock buybacks, now that is some smoke and mirrors to be exploited.
Government agencies are doing all the purchases. They don't want anyone to sell. They want to buy 1 share from themselves at an inflated price. Not 100 million shares from others.
These stories are written by the same tools who BS'd us in 2008 ?????
Duplicate
You kill the the HFT leeches, parasites and scum by applying a Temporal Filter: turn HFT into LFT.
Make Period of LFT to be 12 hrs. --> No more HFT or Day Trading. Only real or serious Investors remain. And you do what Germans do: Tax the shit out of stocks held for only a short period (e.g. < 7 days).
Make the useless Speculators (that add ZERO value, but only extract value to company stock) get a REAL job. Fuck you, you self-entitled assholes and leeches!
Fuck these commies.
Don't forget that they have 're-education camps'.....if your lucky.....
Theirs or ours?
Yes.
That beats HFT manipulation all to hell.
Must be a bad connection.
I clearly heard you say "Buy"
And it isn't any different from any brokerage in the US or elsewhere when it comes to withdrawing your money from their accounts. Yeah, they'll place a sell order, but try saying you want to withdraw all of your assets. You're not allowed and they have a script they read in response to any answer you give.
You don't like the stock market? Well, here's the perfect money market fund time bomb that we have for you?
You want to buy gold? Well, here's some GLD or a gold certificate for you. Or a junior mining fund.
You want to buy real estate? Here's a REIT that yields next to nothing, but with all of the public market risk.
Bottom Line: You have no excuse, or right, to withdraw your money. The pending Bank Bail-in Laws will simplify codify existing practice.
You know how they built a mini-Europe in Vegas, for the 'experience'?
Welp folks this here is the "Market Experience".
You come, you pay, you leave with nothing but memories of the illusion itself.
NBD for the already brainded.
Of course the brokers refused to sell - they could get arrested!
Next up: run over by tanks for not buying!
It's more than that, they've pretty much been ordered to buy......
Either new shares are being issued by every company or select sellers are permitted.
Um... yes, sell orders are refused if the stock has hit the 10% up/down limit for the day or has been frozen. But keep up the propaganda I guess.
What the fuck difference does that make?? Locking in a market to + or - x percent is justifiable? Da Fuk?
Stocks are allowed to go up by 10% in a day or down 10% in a day. Once that has happened, they are frozen for the day. It's nothing new at all.
You sound worried.
Would that mean refuse the order or would that be fail to execute?
'Execute' is such an interesting word......
What a great market. You get in. The government inflates everything. You don't get out until after the banks and government liquidate their holdings at the top.
So glad we don't have that in the U.S.
Oh, wait.....
Roach Motel is a proud American invention, after all...
How are the connected people getting out, I wonder? In other words, what fuckin moron is buying, knowing he won't get his money back?
Just to drive the point home, expect a couple of very public executions (and I don't mean sell orders).
Always take it to the extreme. They act like a kind of 'market police' rather than brokers.
"Blimey! This redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought." -Dennis Moore
https://youtu.be/m2k0azGP2Po?t=2m9s
Meant to link this elsewhere but the whole current climate made me think of this...
China can't anybody sell because they'll never want to get back in, ever.
"We Shanghaied some folks." --Chicoms
The first step in reacting to a problem is: DENIAL.
Second step: ANGER
Third step: ACCEPTANCE, "we are fu.ked!!
I would imagine after these measures, China's markets will suffer a huge loss of volume as now former investors decide to go sell lemonade rather than play a rigged market that's only allowed to go up.
Asked a Chinese friend about all this. He believes Beijing is interested in letting prices subside in an orderly fashion. He also agrees that the party members and other insiders are front running policy and making untold sums on this mega-move.
"party members and other insiders are front running policy and making untold sums"
Aww isn't that cute, jus' like real Americans! What every child wishes for. Teddy RuXIPIN!
Which was the whole point of getting the housewives and muppets to play in the first place.
Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that ZH posted the article about the rural farmer saying something about stocks is where the money is?! lol.
He meant stockyards.
Seems more efficient than the US plunge protection machine and QE
I love it that they are just chopping the balls off the shorts.... awesome
What are the Chinese stock markets where you can't sell?
The world's biggest roach motels.
Re Refusing Sell Orders
Why not - à la the NYSE - just have an Exchange "glitch" that halts trading?
Beijing wants to show that they have a more progressive market, which in certain arbitrary circumstances, can even imitate a Gulag for naughty money. It goes in, but may die in captivity before release. Money should not be naughty, nor get greedy, or fornicate with other money and multiply.
How is this any different than Morgan Stanley & Godman Sach automagically becoming Bank Holding companies one fine day in September 2008?
Neither of these companies have retail banking footprints & 98% of all Americans do not have the capital base to qualify to open an account, but, of course when the damn Treasury Secretary (Good Ol' Hank Paulson) owns 600K of Goldman stock options well I guess no SELL order was allowed to be executed that day either fo GS
It is no different. But that will not be reported beyond your
post. Stay away from sports cars for awhile.
The Chinese don't have to imprison the "terrorist" short sellers... The PLA can put them all on sandcastle building duty in the middle of the South China Sea
It doesn't matter as long as they buy bitcoin: Last Price $286.71 and climbing. Have to take profits again if it breaks $300. This is the way to spend a life. Visit the relatives in Pennsylvania. Listen to Led Zepplin, Study and write essays on Shakespeare, go jogging in the rain and rake in the bitcoin profits. So content that it is difficult to go out and get laid.
Awh the life of a student under the tyranny of Obama.
So a Chinese stock portfolio can be marked to zero? Because there's no market for your holdings. It says you have x amount worth of something but you can't transact at that price.
Hotel California markets are evergreen.
Hotel Chinafornication.
Once stock markets are moved onto the bitcoin Blockchain you won't see stupid headlines like this:
'Chinese Brokers Refusing Sell Orders'
http://www.renegadeinvestor.co.uk/bitcoin-2-0/bitcoin-2-0-blockchain-pla...
I wish china would do this with my gold miners
It's not a difficult concept in physics or math, to replace HFT with LFT. Duh!
If the Frequency in Low-Frequency Trading is held to 1x/day for any given paper asset (Tertiary Wealth), you have now weeded out the Parasitic Scum and speculative Freeloaders (get a real job, Leeches!), and are left with Serious Investors.
Can't sell shit stocks in China. That has to be good for business.
Where can I get one of those trading accounts?
This is an important (and novel to my thought) demonstration of asset confiscation. Those equities? Well, they are yours, BUT YOU CANT SELL THEM. Next up, mandatory 'capital gains' taxes on those equities, EVEN THO YOU HAVENT SOLD THEM.
Global Coup Beta Release, try it before u buy it! And by buy it we mean bite it.
Think of it as a type of capital controls. You cannot liquidate and cash out your positions unless the state approves.
No sell orders means no loses!
China is in deep do-do. Of course, it will not affect the USA as the damage is contained.
The NWO thinks it will win but history, various prophecies including Orwell's 1984 and more would state otherwise.
All it will take is someone who got really burned bad through these arbitrary regulations to render an exchange to the ground in a ash heap for people to realize it cannot go on as ordained by the low life politicians and their CEO masters.
V for Vendetta is a good image of what is happening.
Was that before or after they got a knock on their door from three armed men and the Commissar of Market Awesomeness?
And well this is why I run my website http://amazonpcbuilder.com to offer real products to real people in a market that's actually still free. It's amazing the deals you can find in PC components when the government's no there to ruin everything.
who in the what now? Prease enter loom number flom asyrum you posting flom.
well this ought to put a STOP to anyone buying Chinese stocks in the future. Its like joining the Sicilian Mafia ... once you get in, you can never get out !!!
They just haven't figured out who to pay off for the privilege yet.
Notice they don't say what happened THEN(after said offer was made).
Even without sell orders trade price can fall (during gaps for example). Better solution, which allow selling too, would be force one and one rule only:
(trade price) = (highest ever price)
Oh boy! A centrally planned market. Who'd a thunk it?
Honestly, the idea of being a communist is that price discovery is done by committee.
They let the "market" discover the price only until it's discovery runs contrary to policy.
What's the big deal.. it is only a preselective holiday market for some stocks...so what do you buy...why the stocks on sale...the China stock market is having a sale only on certain stocks...retail stores do this all the time...it is like a garage sale...only certain items are put up or sale...
This surely will do wonders for the brokerage business. . .
If you refuse sell orders you won't have to shut the market off due to a "computer glitch".
http://robertreich.org/post/122703537155
I dare you to read his latest blog. I am confused.
I have grown jaded in the past few years but this move truly is one for the books, a comfortable chair, popcorn & beer. The triple-leveraged ETFs, YINN and YANG, are loads of fun too if you have the cajones.
It's like setting your car on fire to fix a flat tire.
Never thought of that. Clever Chinee!
We sure have a lot of new people on the site. MDB is reeling them in. For those not in the know. MDB uses an invisible sarc tag on his comments. I think he finds it more fun to troll this way
A (possibly) stupid question: how can you buy when noone is allowed to sell to you?
Didn't say nobody can sell.
They're wisely moderating unreasonable customer sell requests, that's all
It's not a stupid question at all. In fact it's a very astute observation on how this notion that you cannot sell stocks, only buy them is bogus.
The simple fact is that for every buy there has to be a sell. Otherwise Sum Ting Wong.
If you squeeze equity market liquidity, the valuations will decline. It's called a liquidity discount, and applies to most small and particularly micro cap issues. Talk about cutting you own nuts. . . And you cut traded volume to a small fraction of what it was. No shorts. Probably no puts, or VERY expensive ones.Congrats, you've just MASSIVELY distorted the derivatives markets. Oh, theis is going to end SO well.
You can buy but can't sell!
Hotel California - financial version, and bull market utopia for the black and grey markets.
Now the guy's got Paulie as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Paulie. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Paulie. Trouble with the cops, deliveries, Tommy, he can call Paulie. But now the guy's gotta come up with Paulie's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me.
This is pathetic! I hope one day people of the world will wake up and decapitate ever MF of these imbeciles and their vermine, hang their heads on spears outside ruins of the central banks as a warning what will happen to those who want to exploit the honest work and deeds of many so they can enrich themselves. There really is one option for the central bankers, IMF, Rockefellers and Rothschilds of this world; death, nothing else.
The next move wil probably be buying-stock-is-your-patriotic-duty thingy, the kind copied from ObamaCare, a hidden taxation.
I wonder if this sort of activity will expand into the Physical Gold market?
That would kinda defeat the purpose of requiring actual physical if you do not have control of selling your physical?
the last two days are a gasp of air, once the pause button comes off the margin calls will be waiting.
I got email from my broker saying margin on Chinese positions in increasing, but still able to short the A50.
I don't think the Chinese understand how evil the western cabal really is.
Wake up China.
Tell your elders to pull their heads from their asses.
This guy Patrick Chovanec is a moron, or the Tylers have lost their minds.
The entire premise of the article is BS.
Let's say I want to buy 1,000 shares of WeTooLo Noodle Company. In order for me to be able to buy those 1,000 shares somebody has to sell them to me.
The notion that you can only buy stocks is just MSM propaganda.
The basis of Fractional Reserve Banking...which has now been confirmed as the basis of commodities trading, and stock trading as well, is FRACTIONAL RESERVES.
What does that mean?
It means they can sell the same asset multiple times to multiple people...the exact same asset...and it only affects supply so long as no one takes delivery.
So...yes, you CAN buy a stock or commodity from a broker without a matching sell trade...because what you bought was only an accounting entry.
Right on, gcjohn. Amazing how few "get" it.
Paladin - So true. I think what has gone on in China is that one cannot SHORT stocks or Indices. What about creating synthetic shorts by buying Put and selling Call ?
Can one exercise a Put ? Can one buy a Put ? Can one sel a Call ? What about a covered call?
All of these simple questions. This article was probably written by an ilegal immigrant, summer intern at ZH. Hey they needs to go on vaction as well y'know.