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Tsipras Sells Out Referendum 'No' Vote Ahead Of Weekend Deadline
"We got a mandate to bring a better deal than the ultimatum that the Eurogroup gave us, but certainly not given a mandate to take Greece out of the eurozone,” Greek PM Alexis Tsipras reportedly told Syriza lawmakers on Friday, underscoring the fact that his government’s mandate is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to achieve.
As detailed Thursday evening, the proposal (or, the “thorough piece of text” as Jeroen Dijsselbloem called it) submitted by Tsipras looks quite a bit like the proposal the Greek people rejected at Tsipras’ urging last Sunday. Here are the basics:
The broad strokes: a 3 year, €53.5 billion bailout program, including €35 billion of growth measures, lasting through June 30, 2018 requesting funds from the ESM, seeking to finally put the IMF off to the side. The program is heavy on revenue promises and lite on actual spending cuts. Greece hopes to achieve a 1% primary budget surplus in 2015, rising to 2%, 3%, and 3.5% by 2018, all of which are now impossible due to the total collapse of the economy in the past week. Among the tax reform will be a modest increase in corporate tax from 26% to 28%. The changes to the VAT system are as noted previously, keeping the VAT on hotels at 13% but raising it to 23% for restaurants; Greece also promises to eliminate discounts on islands, starting with the islands with higher incomes and which are the most popular tourist destinations. Create strong disincentives to early retirement, incur penalties for early withdrawals, make all supplementary pension funds financed by own contributions; and so on. Greece will seek to "gradually phase out the solidarity grant (EKAS) for all pensioners by end-December 2019" - who will be impacted and when: "the top 20% of beneficiaries in March 2016." In other words another 9 months of non real action. Greece will also "freeze monthly guaranteed contributory pension limits in nominal terms until 2021."
Reactions from Europe and from Syriza itself have been largely predictable. As mentioned above, Dijsselbloem is lukewarm, French President Francois Hollande called the proposal “serious and credible”, Italian PM Matteo Renzi is “more optimistic than [he] was in the past,” while Germany is, to use Bloomberg’s words “reserving judgement.”
On person who is not “reserving judgement” however is Greek Energy Minister and far-left leader Panagiotis Lafazanis. “The proposals are not compatible with the Syriza programme," he told Reuters on Friday. On Thursday, in the course of detailing Greece’s €2 billion energy partnership with Russia, Lafazanis said the referendum “no vote “must not become a humiliating ‘yes’.”
While the Eurogroup will convene on Saturday to consider whether to go ahead with the deal, the first hurdle is the Greek parliament where Tsipras is set to use what Deutsche Bank calls an “unusual political move” to give the proposal a better chance of passing next week. Here’s Deutsche Bank with more:
In the meantime, the Greek PM has initiated the domestic approval process as well. In an unusual political move, he has submitted a one-page legislative proposal requesting emergency parliamentary authorization to negotiate the final terms of the agreement. He has published the government's proposal at the same time, but is not calling for parliament to vote upon the actual measures. In principle such authority is not required. In practice, the strategy aims at consolidating the SYRIZA party's parliamentary base ahead of a likely vote to approve the measures next week. On the positive side, pre-emptive parliamentary support will make it more difficult for SYRIZA MPs to reject an agreement after it comes to parliament. On the negative side, the PM will also have an authority to reject an agreement if he so decides.
The opposition's stance to this strategy remains to be seen, but it will be the support of the government's parliamentary majority that will be the most important today. The PM will meet with SYRIZA parliamentarians at 6am London time. A full parliamentary vote will take place later in the evening. Approval will provide negotiating space to the PM, increasing credibility with the Europeans and the odds of passage in a subsequent parliamentary vote next week.
In other words, it appears as though Tsipras is looking to back the Syriza hardliners into a corner. The argument appears to go something like this: voting on the actual proposals would be largely pointless as Europe hasn’t approved them, so let’s vote on whether I have the authority to negotiate the measures, but if you say “yes” to that, and I agree to a deal this weekend, then I can then come back to you and say “well, you gave me the authority to negotiate and I decided to accept so now you pretty much have to approve this.” This strategy has the added benefit of allowing Tsipras to tell Europe that the Greek parliament voted “yes” even though in reality they did not vote on the actual deal. You have to love politics.
As for “debt sustainability” (i.e. that small issue which the IMF brought up three days before the referendum and effectively won the vote for Tsipras and the “no” crowd), that will be considered later apparently. From Bloomberg:
Debt sustainability is a central part of discussions in the Euro Working Group and the Eurogroup of euro-area finance ministers, EU official says.
Assessment of Greece’s financing requirements will also form part of analysis, official tells reporters in Brussels
First, prior actions will be discussed, then financing, then debt sustainability -- but they are all linked, official says.
They may be “all linked” but Germany still isn’t biting — or at least not on the idea of a “classic haircut.” Here’s the Irish Times:
The Greek government received a boost on Thursday, after European Council President Donald Tusk said that a “realistic proposal from Athens” should be matched by “realistic proposal from creditors on debt sustainability”.
His unexpected comments - the first from a senior EU figure - followed a phone conversation with Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras.
Senior officials representing the 19 euro zone member states will consider Greece’s new reform plan on Friday, ahead of a scheduled eurogroup meeting of finance ministers in Brussels on Saturday.
Mr Tusk’s intervention follows renewed calls from IMF managing director Christine Lagarde on Wednesday that Greece’s debt burden should be addressed.
US treasury secretary Jack Lew also intervened to call for debt relief for Greece.
In a sign that Berlin could be open to the idea of debt relief, German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble said the issue could be discussed over the coming days, though he hinted that the impact of any measures would be minimal. “The room for manoeuvre through debt reprofiling or restructuring is very small,” he said.
German chancellor Angela Merkel also explicitly ruled out a debt writedown for Greece. “I have said that a classic haircut is out of the question for me and that hasn’t changed between today and yesterday,” she said, echoing comments she made on Tuesday in Brussels.
Speaking within hours of Mr Tusk’s comments, she said that Greece’s debt sustainability had already been addressed under previous bailouts.
So, just as we said: Germany and the US are now at odds over a Greek debt writedown.
Ultimately, Tspiras has submitted the same proposal that Greeks, at his behest, voted against last weekend. The PM will use a shrewd political maneuver to secure parliamentary support and new FinMin Euclid Tsakalotos will attempt to close the deal on Saturday. And although that would mean selling Greek "no" voters down the river, it's once again a nearly impossible choice because as Bloomberg reports, citing Dutch newspaper Het Financieele Dagblad, the ECB "will terminate emergency liquidity assistance (ELA) to Greece as of 6am on Monday morning if Greek reform proposals are deemed too light and if Greece is unwilling to cooperate with withdrawal from the euro zone."
Here's Commerzbank's Markus Koch summing things up: "The 'No' in the referendum appears to be turning into a 'Yes' from Tsipras."
Sorry Panagiotis Lafazanis. Maybe there's a cabinet position open in Moscow.
* * *
So much for "hope"...
...and so much for this as well...
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Pussies
All those Chinese hairdressers can go back to giving stock advice. That market is fixed.
I said right along that Greece would get their loan to pay back the interest on the loans it already had. All paid with newly printed money out of vapor.
Everything's fixed!
Oh King.....live forever.
Now that they've been sold-out by their Dear Leader, we will see if the Greeks have the will to live free or as serfs.
The NO vote showed some fiber but the jury is out.
Malaka pousti.
"There is no free lunch"
Sure there is...you can get a shit sammich any time of the day, any day of the week.
Sounds like the Greek Tree of Liberty is in need of some watering.
While I can understand when people are disappointed, I have really zero understanding for the hatred and bashing against tsipras. You guys here all sit nice and cosy in your armchairs, you do NOT face a starving, depressed, desperate people. You do NOT have to face the fat, dogmatic neoliberals and neocons in Brussels and Berlin when they send you back empty-handed week after week knowing full well that it's you, not them who has to face the ensuing chaos when no deal gets struck. You have NO skin in the game. What of course, makes it so much much easier to judge and to condemn. Listen up, you bloody armchair strategists: Before you call Tsipüras names and before you outline how tough YOU would deal with those banksters, I invite you to come to Greece, live there fore couple months with no money, with no job, listen to the people there and then we can talk again. before that, all your bashing - and that includes Mr Tyler Durden - is meaningless, disgusting bullsh!t.
There was a public referendum where the people voted by landslide to default. Are the people of Greece Armchair Quarterbacking too?
They're voting?
Tell them to stop doing that!!!
Pressure from all sides?
Bending to the pressure he feelss behind from Troika.
So he bends over and let's Greece get fucked by Euro Bankers once again.
Nothing.g about this decision is for Greece. This saves Bankers not Greece
re-vote until the answer comes out right.
hugs,
ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2008_(Ireland)
i thought it was common knowledge that greece caved in when Varoufakis quit without a press confrence after winning. didn't ZH float that premise? Bomb Iceland!
they prob threatened to kill his family. the voters arnt loud enuff. not enuff blood in the streets, as much as i hate to use that rothschilds speak. the people need to let the rulers know they mean business.
wait until the proposal has passed (which it so obviously will).
then judge their reaction.
Tsipras is a bitch like every politician is a bitch.
Damn... this guy must have receive Troika death threats.
No excuse even if he did. Could you imagine the rally of the Greek people if Tspiras went on stage at parliament and said unknown interests had threatened his life? Talk about galvanizing the people. If he's so "socialist" he should be willing to stand up for the cause. He's just a spineless politician like all the others who took his shot at the money and prestige and now will slink off into the night as the used up whore he is.
I am torn calling this a disappointment, and a confirmation; it turns out that Tsipras is just another member of the Whore Corps.
He joins the GOP so-called leadership in Congress and many of its members, in winning votes by going entirely psychotic with their lying, just to flop right back to doing the Deep State's bidding as soon as the new Congress is sworn in.
I've finally become 110% jaded. There is absolutely no hope for humanity. Let the plagues run rampant; push the button to unleash the nuclear firestorm; let the robots wipe humans from the face of the Earth. Homo Sapiens is unfit to live.
In the immediate term, my only regret is that the jihadists could have found a way to wipe out the State of the Union audience - House, Senate, Supreme Court, Chiefs of Staff, their aides in crime, and the well-heeled donors who buy all of them, without destroying the Captiol's architecture . . . and repeat the same across every nation on Earth.
To paraphrase the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, "There is no good, no, not one."
-30-
There were several prescient ZHers who were calling Tsipras a fraud from DAY 1. I was not one of them, but I sympathized with their position and argument.
After all, he is a politician, fiery rhetoric or socialist agenda notwithstanding. "Won't get fooled again."
If Tsipras does end up ignoring the referendum vote, and asking for yet another bailout, then this is essentially TARP, feta cheese edition.
Don't you remember when the people of the US were calling their Congresscritters, demanding that the banks be allowed to fail? And that vote was something like 95-5 in favor letting the banks fail.
I hope this latest example of politics proves to those still clinging to the apple-pie notion of democracy and voting that it doesn't work. At least, not the way you were taught in sixth grade civics.
just when i thought I was beginning to understand humans...
...where are the 200,000 people in the square now!! Are the Greek people really going to take this? If they accept this, after that referendum....then I give up my emotional support....as well as my plan to vacation in Greece.
They took it in the ass from germany in WWII and they're bending over again - LOL -ya gotta love Europe.
There was a public referendum where the people voted by landslide to default. Are the people of Greece Armchair Quarterbacking too?
The people of Greece voted to:
Stay in EU using Euro currency and receive EU subsidies.
Recieve Debt Forgiveness, writedown, and restructuring.
Continue with same pension and economic programs which caused the problems.
Get additional financial support from ECB and ELA funding for government deficit spending and cover funds outflows.
Which part of the fairy tale proposal is most impossible to believe or achieve?
Newfx....spoken like a true 45 year old Greek Retiree on an outrageous pension. Fuck you.
the retirement age in Greece is 61 years old, stop making shit up. https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+retirement+age+in+greec%3F&i...?
There is this thing called google where you can check facts you know.
Its the existing system that put them in the place where they are. The Central Planners did this on porpuse to stripmine Greece. What about that do you NOT understand. Its all corrupt. Do you not get that? Going back to the trough is only going to sustain the pain for decades. How can anyone ignore that? The Central Planners are vampires and it has been written about for years and all the sleazy deals and stolen money printed out of thin air who's debt has been laid onto the shoulders of the taxpayers is well known and proven to have happened. How can ANYONE ignore that?
Default, bring back the Drackma, suffer pain for a few months and then regrow you economy from scratch and see that there is a whole world of countries that have a much better future for Greece. Tsipras has been threatened and he acts accordngly. He is scared for his own hide more then he is scared for Greece. If he doesn't throw off the shackles of debt laid on Greece by criminals he is no better than all teh previously elected leaders before him.
OXI?
Further proof that voting doesn't mean anything, politicians will do what politicians do best, lie, cheat, steal...
It would be more embarrassing if Greece was where democracy started, oh wait.
The Pewblik "Servants" do whatever the fuck they want. After all, they have all the guns and a monopoly privilege on the initiation of force.
Agreed. Highly disappointing. It seems that whenever there is an opportunity for significant change, it is promptly flushed down the toilet and the status quo reigns supreme. Is it any wonder that so many people believe that events that affect our lives are "manufactured" by TPTB?
Change IS hard, but it seems that often it is a no win situation, as when change is desired by any population it is promtly ignored.
you sure have some anger issues. go call jack nicholson.
Once again, the people of a nation have spoken, and the government that they pay to protect them and to support their rights does a 180. This is getting rather old.
YOU ARE LIVING IN A FANTASY LAND!
GREECE NEVER HAD A CHANCE...BUT AT LEAST THEIR VOICE COULD BE HEARD BEFORE THE EURO FUCKERS LOWERED THE BOOM.
Bwhahahahaha.
YOU DONT EVEN LISTEN TO YOUR OWN RHETORIC BUT SWING AROUND TO SING SEIG HEIL WHEN THE JACK BOOTS ROLL.
Is Greece an entire Gun Free Zone?
The government has plenty of guns
Those poor starving Greeks you are talking about are and were willing to go the whole nine yards, they voted no in the referendum.
Their so called leader couldn't stand.
It is about a lack of integrity.
And before you go calling me an arm chair quarterback, I know what it is like to go hungry and to stand up for what I believe is right.
Some things are not worth compromising soul for.
This Kid is REALLY good.
"He always knew he was speaking to a LARGER audience" and not merely the "German One."
And look!
HE BENDS TO THEIR WILL EVEN NOW!
The Greek people will support their leader in this in my view...but we shall see if the YALTA TROIKA steps in here...
fuck you, asshole
After the deal , the Greeks still won;t have jobs or money
All you did was sign up for a lifetime of no jobs and no money
You reap what you sow
as nobody got bollocks to be unplugged of world, expect every body to kneel.
revolutions are things of the past. futur is servitude.
no crash allowed ( winchester , 1 year ago )...
cinema.
Always unwritten the future is. - Yoda
Participation is consent. Consent is to bow/kneel. Are people consenting, or are they waking up, and learning to ignore the system?
tsipras specifically called a referendum on this. the answer was a resounding 'oxi' (no) - he is deliberately going against the wishes of the population.
so regardless of your rhetoric, he is expressly overriding the referendum he himself called.
Fx you are a fool.
Armchairs really. We in the Rest of Europe, very much have skin in the game. It is you Greeks that have no skin in the game. 250 Billion Euros of skin. What skin do Greeks have in the game, is all paid by us in the RoE. Why don't you Greeks show some respect for all the pensioners in RoE that have paid for your pensions? Don't forget 50,000 Euros has been given by RoE to every single man, woman and child in Greece. 50,000! And that isn't skin!! You damn fool fx. It is Greeks that have no skin in the game, you people in Greece are crying about now what you should have, you crying for things that YOU EXPECT RoE TO GIVE TO YOU.
What do we have to do for you, greeks can't run a country, greeks don't know how to work, but greeks are good at stealing, begging, pointing fingers, and of course, drinking coffee at caffes. Why don't you come outside of Greece for a while, and try working for a change, and earning your living? You might learn that life is not about crying like a baby for milk from the European teat.
Shame on you Fx...SHAME ON YOU. You are just another typical disgraceful Greek!
If FX is a fool you are a retard.
Do you realize Greece shouldn't have been let in the Eurozone? (this is known by ALL the Europeons, except you) that they got in by lies, the application, submitted by Goldman Sacks, overnighted via special courier?
That the Greeks were doing just fine prior to admittance?
That 50,000 you say all the Greeks got, well right before those checks were cashed, that money was wired right back to German banks, you know, the ones with the skin in the game..
Putz
So if I loan money to you and you were not a good credit risk, it is my fault? You will say, I am a predatory lender... so borrower beware! Their own leaders are to blame, not the rest of Europe, as misguided as the project was from the outset.
And the Greeks were able to borrow at deeply discounted rates due to inclusion in the EU. They would have been bankrupt much earlier on their own... Puerto Rico comes to mind. And Argentina, of course.
I do agree that they should never have joined or been allowed to join. The Squid helped them cook their books just to make a buck...and is still laughing all the way to the bank. The EU is a shit show doomed to failure. Any new deal simply drags out the misery.
That's fair, but on the other side of the coin, us armchair strategists don't want to hear the greeks ever bitch about the EU again, because you've consistently and continuously taken their shit over and over and agreed to suck banker dick to stay a part of the Euro, simply because you're afraid and don't have the sand to go it alone.
That's the thing, no one has to move to Greece to experience no money, with no job. It's systemic everywhere now. The Greek people did make their collective voice heard with a 'no', then the political leader that pushed for the change threw them all under the bus. Including his own political future. There are few rules in life, but avoiding to shit in one's own sandbox is one of them.
Even if your points are valid, you seem to presuppose that the paradigm were valid. As unfair as it may be, to try and work in the confines of this paradigm is to somehow give it legitimacy. You need to think outside the box and acknowledge, there is no spoon.
Check your own Liberty Tree before you go pointing at others'; The US's is withering and blighted.
please tell me which tree of liberty on this planet is NOT blighted and being urinated on by a cadre of banksters, daily
you know what that eventually does to the tree, right
Makes lemonade?
Tspira's has been busy "watering" it already, it whiffs a bit...
Sure there is...you can get a shit sammich any time of the day, any day of the week.
For the Greeks, it would require Germany to supply them with FREE bread.
The idea of any sandwich is only a dream.
In a Ponzi Scheme, nobody and I mean fucking nobody can exit the game, or it all goes down!
The Greeks had two choices, U.S/German overlords or Russian/Chinese overloads? Looks like the leaders of Greece, liked the devil they knew better!
I'm not surprised!
This isn't over, 5-6 Countries will have to default at some point in the next 1-3 years under the current conditions and overnight under the wrong ones!
Once the Chinese get there yuan in the SDR AND their new investment bank gets rolling, the shit will really get exciting! Ponzi Schemes also have one major flaw, they also have to be the only game in town to be sustained, once there is another option, they collapse faster then a house of cards!
This new bank will be that option to the next Greece of the world! Actually it wouldn't be surprising if Putin didn't tell Tsipras exactly that....."eat shit one more time son, take their money, get prepared, and the next go round, we will all be ready logistically to crush their asses!!"
the free lunch is had by the rentier class don't ya know? perhaps their guilt at getting all that un earned money will tweek a collective conscience and they'll share? hahahaha
If this really is a sellout, then Varoufakis' resignation makes sense.
"I shall return....
...like a bounced cheque."
It's the only way it makes sense. Before the referendum he was saying "if you vote YES, I leave", greeks voted NO, he left the next day anyway. Did nobody pick this up?
He was the last government official really working for the people of greece, and he was either disgusted with his superiors or they cut him out to make a sellout possible. He was also proposing a digital drachma.
Right you are. He also said he'd rather cut off his arm than sign that agreement. So, clearly Tspiras sold out and he had to resign.
He is still a parliament member. I'd love to see him call a vote of no confidence and run for PM. He'd win in a landslide.
what doesn't make sense is why Tsipras asked people to vote OXI past week.
...
There was a public referendum where the people voted by landslide to default. Are the people of Greece Armchair Quarterbacking too?
Iceland arrested some bankers. Not a whole lot....just enough.
They seem to be doing better now.
Thank god we use Diebold we always get the vote that they want.
.
The Greeks don't have the time or money to transition to anything. They have spent the "rainy day savings". It would be like planting seeds when your out of food, starve to death before it fruits. T knows this.
Yeah, a lot's been said about the "temporary rough ride" associated with transition, but I don't think anyone talking about it fully understands that the rough patch would extend to decades of serious hardship and turmoil.
Of course it will. The people calling for the grexit are just voicing their frustration about the can-kicking that has made their predictions for the past seven years look silly. Let the Greeks default and put the lie to the whole "containment" theory, grab the popcorn, settle into the recliner, and watch the dominoes start to cascade!
Would going back to the drachma really improve matters? It is just another fiat currency that would be issued in most part via fractional reserve lending. Greece has maintained its national standard of living not only via borrowing massive amounts of money, but also by enjoying the strength of the Euro for the purchase of all imported items. The most likely outcome of a return to the drachma would be Zimbabwe on the Mediteranean, as the printing press runs overtime to sustain all of those pensions and other beloved Greek customs and traditions.
It will be an utter crap shoot to predict what the exchange rate will be for newly issued drachmas. Prices for imported items might not increase, or they might increase 500%. Who knows? Maybe the Greeks will have to turn their gas-powered vehicles into garden planters.
It seems clear to me that this is basically a life-and-death situation. Not in the sense that people are going to keel over and go tits up the moment the Grexit occurs, but over time what seems likely to be a very weak drachma will kill people before their time due to overall financial pressure and things like an inability to purchase imported medicine.
Dumb ass. Defaulting on the debt and going back to the drachma would unfuck Greeced. The drachma would immediately devalue and make greek exports very cheap. That would create opportunities to manufacture there. That equals jobs and prosperity.
Try reading sites like ZH and you might learn these basics.
don't have the time?
no problem.
That's why Tsipras now wants "fast-track" authorization
to negotiate a deal with the TROIKA.
As he always has said, just trust him,
and he'll get the 'deal of a lifetime',
...
(most likely to last two or three lifetimes).
Tsipras probably just got a fat deposit into an undisclosed account courtesy of Goldman, JPM, ect.
And why haven't they gone Iceland by now ?
And why do we never hear about Iceland in the US mainstream 'news' ?
P.S. - I was a bit suspicious about the whole 'never wear a tie - ride a motorcycle' thing - - smells too much like a marketing package aimed at the sheeple. Like 'Hope & Change' . . . it has no details or substance.
looks like Victoria Nuland made him a personal offer he couldnt refuse.
That's exactly what happened. It doesn't take genius to figure that one out.
...or if they have the will to learn how to use a nail gun.
So much for Demockracy
Any vote to any or for any government is esentially a giant circle jerk to make people feel good for a short time...that's about it.
The whole premise is flawed . . .
that you have to come begging for your basic human rights, including not being robbed.
If the population of Individual Human Beings took their own lives in hand and chose not to co-operate . . . the banksters & their whore politicians would be outta business.
But people choose to be sheep . . . and look outside themselves for 'leaders' and 'saviors'.
The whole premise is flawed . . .
that you have to come begging for your basic human rights, including not being robbed.
The flawed premise is that the Greeks have a basic human right to rob citizens of other states.
The thieving is finished for the Greeks.
Even if they don't have to make restitution - repayment of debt - they cannot survive without additional theft or subsidies. Things will have to change whether Tzipass likes it or not.
Who known what they've been threatened with ?
a Allende Fate for Tsipras?
a Maidan Greek edition ?
a new dictatorship ?
Obama kindly asking Greece to stay in EU ?
On the other hand, the surrender is still tied to a debt relief
He saw the shadow of the man with the nailgun.
Just the sound of an air compressor running give me chills these days.
My Doctor tells me it's just PTSD.
Anybody else here appreciate the irony in the Greeks electing a leader whose name is a cognate of another EU member country that recently bailed out the bankers at the expense of the depositors??
He might be hoping to lose in Parliament just as he (allegebly) sought to lose the referendum...
possibly. his letter, for example, bears a strange phrase: "the finance minister's proposal..."
Saw that too - I actually give him more credit than perhaps he's due. He plays a clever game - neither too much credit for a win, nor too much blame for a loss.
Well, it appears to be pretty clear that he's a loser.
I hope the ECB bribe money he gets for selling out his people is enough for him to live comfortably in whatever country he's moving to.
Wes, my genes tell me that zee Germans will call for an unconditional surrender, there will be no debt relief. It is just in their nature. They cannot help themselves. Macht macht Recht. And this will eventually lead to yet another collapse of German/European hegemony. It seems as though they never learn.
Tsipras selling out? Say it isn't so!
sarc
Tsip knows Greece will never pay back any of their debt. So, perhaps...he's willing to play along with the game thinking 'go ahead and keep giving yourselves money...I don't care' but he does need to skim one out of every ten Euro's to make his payroll. That's all he cares about.
The only reason you don't have a "mandate" to pull Greece out of the EU is because you didn't ask the fucking question on the referendum.
Tsipras is a coward. Period, end of story.
There is a big difference between coward and traitor. Although he could be both.
In America we have the GOP....they're both.
NO have a marketed messiah who went on a global crime spree with left cover.
Indeed pussies or two faced douche bags whichever fits. If Tsipras fucks his people Tibet will not be far enough for him to hide from them, hope he understands this whilst he counts his chickens....
WRONG - You have one sell out traitor. The Greek economy is going underground. If the top traitor is going to sell out the Grecians then they are going to fight back by trying to bypass government mafia whenever and wherever possible.
This is no different than here in the US. We elect backstabbers whose only morals depend on where the bribes come from.
Yup. No way in hell is anybody going to oppose this system. They will overthrow goverments, assasinate people, throw them off buildings or set them up and black mail them. No guts no glory!
did you see the face of tsipras when nigel farage was giving him the speech in the recent video on ZH? it looked like he wanted to cry. i wouldn't be surprised if he had a gun to his head. literally.
when so much is at stake (world financial system on the brink of collapse), it's a hazard to leave it up to one person.
WTF idiots! Nobody has a nail gun to this asshole's head. He commands the greek army/cops/swat. He and his family are in no danger.
The "gun" was a swiss bank account.
I wonder if the Greek Messiah will be at 50% approval in 6 yrs too...
My pet jellyfish has more backbone than this useless loser! Wait, I have a pet jellyfish?
FIFTY SHADES OF GREECE!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-FXWz5CQAEjy1J.jpg
Perfect.
I had high hopes for Tsipras, until this. Apparently, he is a real loser. Wonder what the riots will look like when the Greeks realize they have been sold down the river, and the banks are still closed.
I never did because he is a useless demagogue that cannot be trusted, he made that abundantly clear in the past five months, had anyone in the States actually been following. He was the worst thing to happen to Greece since the days of Nea Dimokratia under Karamanlis. But like most ZHers when it comes to Greece, you dont live in Europe and you dont know anyhting about the country and have no idea who i am even talking about in the first place. This site is chocked full of uninformed readers when it comes to Europe. I respect the fact that you at least admit it.
I had some hope that he might be legit because he had Varoufakis (sp?) as his finance minister.
"he is a useless demagogue that cannot be trusted"=The human condition.
Kind of reminds me of a certain multi-cultural loser from the political swamps of Chicago getting elected president on the campaign roar of 'Hope and Change'. It really makes me chuckly that people the world over are this gullible.
I hope there aren't riots because whenever there are riots, the US/Nuland are not far behind, passing out cookies to the side they want to win. The best thing that could happen is for his party, Syriza, to replace him with someone with half a brain, at least. But unfortunately that won't happen because they are mostly all under his spell. He is used to getting by on his boyish good looks and charisma.
Gummy jellyfish
Cajolery..
Threats and bribes.Potent mixture.
Why did he waste the Greeks time in the referendum?
He is no different than Obama or any other two faced politician. That finance minister Yaris quit because he saw this coming and Tsiris didn't have the stomach to back Yaris up.
The world would be a better place without some of this scum who would turn on their peoples. Just like the traitors George W. Clinton and Obama.
I'd say the probability that Clinton - George W. Bush - Obama would ever take a bullet for this country is ZERO. Your use of the word traitor for the 3 of them makes me think that probability is a negative quantity - no patriotic bones there, notwithstanding what looked an awful lot like patriotism.
Why run a referendum? It reportedly cost tens of millions of euros. No politician ever passes up a chance to give money to their friends.
It's all moot. Good luck getting Latvia's approval to bail out a bunch of comparatively rich Greeks.
I am from Latvia and I don't think that Latvia will block anything, although there is some rhetoric to such effect. Ultimately it is Germany that decides and Latvia will most likely side with Germany.
That is decent of the good Latvian people to think that way. The real shame is that there is only so much to go around and resources that could be used to develop the industrious Baltic states will go into the bottomless pit of Greece.
I guess Greeks don't see much of that money, it mostly goes to refinancing previous debts so that it is not obvious that Greece is insolvent.
Which goes towards keeping Greece from falling into complete chaos...or so they've been led to believe.
The resources of which you speak will only be recirculated back to the TBTF Spanish, French, German, and Italian banks to keep them whole. Money for the Greeks? Wait, was that a unicorn I just saw running across a rainbow?!
OT: and will Latvians try to solve a bit that thing with their non-Latvian populations, I wonder? all Latvians I've met recently did gave me the contrary impression. I wonder what you think about it
What solution do you think is needed? And exactly what impression did Latvians give you?
it was only a dozen, in four separate occasions in the last year, and they all talked about Russians living there... let's say it was not in very endearing terms
There is some mutual dislike between Latvians and Russians, because of history of course. Some of Russians actually want Latvia annexed to Russia which is totally unacceptable to Latvians, others are more moderate. Among Latvians there are some nationalists too, although political mainstream in Latvia recently is kinda moderate. For example new president was elected recently who is moderate and he specifically stressed in his inauguration speech importance of good relations between Latvians and Russians.
For some inexplicable reason Latvian policy and rethoric are very favourable towards USA though (letting them park tanks in your country for example)
Why I find it inexplicable is this fantasy of thinking if TSHTF some white knight from half way across the globe will care to save an insignificant country/economy and be able to magically do it faster than it takes the superpower on your borders to conquer a piece of land barely larger than Holland .....
for the life of me I aslo don't get why they worked hard to be the latest to join the euro zone last year, locals arleady complaining about higher prices etc
I guess there is fair chance that the United States will indeed act if for example Russia invades Baltic states. Because United States' credibility is at risk, if it fails to act, NATO is done.
I also believe that there is some geopolitical significance to Baltic states, namely it is important for United States that this region is NOT controlled by Russia. If Russia gets Baltic states, it will rule in Baltic sea, Finland would be surrounded and maybe forced to accommodate Russia etc.
And about euro - it was really important for the ruling party and also governor of Bank of Latvia to join euro at all costs. Population was actually not that enthusiastic but mainly because of sentimental value of national currency.
Absolutely, USA will act if Russia invades the baltic states, but only because they have been praying for a reason to attack Russia
It is almost impossible for them to act fast enough to stop Russia from entirely decimating Latvia though, if Latvia was their target for example
Latvia may be on the side of the WW3 winner (MAYBE), but it might not matter if they're on the wrong side of the opening battles?
I am not sure about United States praying for a reason to attack Russia. Wouldn't that be quite dangerous? Could escalate to nuclear war or something. Would it be easy to sell protracted ground war against Russia to American public?
If Americans permanently stationed some troops and heavy weapons (that's what they plan to do) in Baltic states they may hold out long enough. In Latvian military planning there is an idea that in the event of war it is important to hold to at least one of two ports in western Latvia which could be used by "rescue" force, because indeed it is impossible to hold all or even the majority of the territory. Something like Pusan perimeter in Korean war.
Putting US arms and military personnel ON the Russian border (and parading them about in an aggressive fashion) is an aggressive ploy to destabilize the relationship and the region. Latvia is only a pawn in this game. Research the history of US provision of and withdrawal of support to various governmental and ethnic groups throughout the Middle East for a definition of feckless. The behaviour of the US in destabilization the Ukraine should be a tell for Latvia; the US cares nothing about sending tens of thousands East Ukrainians to their deaths, nor for millions fleeing in the dead of winter (the place looks like a moonscape now). All US engagements are cynical and intend maintain the status quo of its failing financial, diplomatic, military, and industrial hegemony.
Notice the bansters always get their way? Even if the majority doesn't want it?
The Eurocrats will force more debt and austerity on Greece.
Reading too much Krugman and Stiglitz today? Since when have their views become popular on ZH? Its not the eurocrats that impose this austerity. Its the capital markets that stopped funding athens, and in doing so would have imposed a far harsh for of austerity fee market style. The eurocrats simply are trying to alleviate it to prevent contagion.
You make sense like that and the down arrows will fly.
I have been called a statist troll for having sympathy for the northern taxpayers.
Seems to be a consensus here, support the schizophrenic Greek populist uprising or you are a statist bankster shill, or in other words, you are either with us or against us. No shades of gray allowed.
It's only the "northern taxpayers" because the gambling banksters offloaded their risky bets on them! See how that works and why the down arrows fly?
I had to laugh at that remark, how true. Schizophrenic? Seems better way of describing many of these so-called free market libertarians that troll this site. I have just as much distaste as any one here for the bankers willing to step over their dead mother to make the quick buck, snort coke and drive Porsches. And yes Germany and France were negligent about their banks' exposure to Greece, maybe they should have given them a heads up that all those growth figures that attracted lenders in the first place were all fabricated to the last decimal. But they are NOT imposing austerity that Greece would not otherwise have had to do immediately and in a much more brutal fashion in the first place once bond investors ceased lending to Athens back in 2010. Even if they abandoned the euro, life would have been very, very tough. What Germany and France do share is the responsiblility for first lying about the costs to their own voters and ramrailing the bailout through their own parliaments to secure the euro project, which does have a certain geopolitical value here. But other countries like Portugal, Ireland and Spain have all had to suffer through periods of austerity, just like Germany did under Schroeder and Merkel (who pushed through Germanys biggest postwar tax hike in history). The difference is their pro-growth structural reforms kicked in and they didnt blame others for their own mistakes. Greece decided to vote for a populist who sold them a version of events that had nothing to do with the truth or what he could realistically achieve. He has been a disaster for both Europe but more so for his own people, Live within your means is something i thought ZH readers believed in their hearts.
What part of my Mantra that "Greece is the Template for the PIIGS and other Western countries" do people not get?
Note that "Hope is not a viable or actionable strategy -- even the Libertarian kind". Better plan accordingly.
Kirk out.
Extend and pretend...Again.
Germany and the US are now at odds over a Greek debt writedown.
Infinite spying by the NSA on Merkel and Germany will decide this issue in America's favor.
Tsipras failed his people:
Greek government approves brutal austerity measures in proposal to EU
Greece’s Syriza-led government agreed to a massive new €13 billion (US$14.34 billion) package of austerity measures yesterday evening, less than a week after Sunday’s landslide “no” vote in a referendum on European Union (EU) austerity.
The proposal would be the deepest package of cuts since the EU austerity drive began in Greece in late 2009. It goes well beyond the proposed €8 to 9 billion in cuts initially demanded by the EU in talks with Syriza.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/10/gree-j10.html
Jamie Dimon will never be able to recover from this.
Tsyprus you blame?
Seriously...did he ever had a chance?
And yet the man sitting atop the most powerful and influential Bank in the world as both CEO and Chairman?
(Sounds of crickets chirping...
Say what? So this vote tonight means nothing?
According to Mish, rumors are surfacing that the US is guaranteeing Greek debt. As with anything, we won't really, if ever, know what took place behind closed doors until after it's been done.
lol, now that is a juicy rumour. but remember that there is no such thing as secret international guarantees, not for the markets anyway
btw, "Ultimately, Tspiras has submitted the same proposal that Greeks, at his behest, voted against last weekend."
useful word, that "ultimately". if you take it away, then the phrase is patently false, but with "ultimately" it's.... highly debatable
actually, the current Greek gov proposal looks very, very familiar to my old eyes. I wonder where I saw it, last time
oh, now I remember: it resembles very much... Juncker's reconciliation offer. but it would be very unpolitical for Tsipras to say so
anyway, they are still haggling. when parties are haggling, then they usually both still want a deal, and it's all about the... price
This goes to show politicians don't care & respect what the vote result is. These useless junks only care what their opinions are. Wait til you see the UK referendum. Cameroon will only do what he wants.
if he does, a coup will happen and it might be exactly what he is looking for. Not sure how it will pan, but its only going to get ugly.
Y'all need to be watching Brousko to see what happens next.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brousko
"Germany and the US are now at odds over a Greek debt writedown."
Why do we have to butt into everything around the world?" Oh that's right...God shed his Grace on Thee". It's in the words of "America the Beautiful".
I guess we are better than the rest of the world and that gives us the right to butt into the business of other countries.
Gezz! Everything seems so fucking upside down lately.
Here come the Russians, the Americans AND the English.
MISH SHYLOCK WOULD DO THE HUMAN RACE A FAVOR IF HE OFFED HIMSLEF.
What a farce.
So in other words... See you all back here in a year or less. In the mean time Greeks can head to the beach in the German dime....again. Suckers!!!!