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Eurogroup Meeting Ends Without Agreement: "Huge Problems", "Issue Of Greek Trust Very Difficult"
Equity markets roared higher Thursday and Friday as they 'knew' a deal was imminent in Greece because Tsipras appeared to backpedal. However, after someone told Merkel the truth, and "everyone knows you can't believe" the Greeks, The Eurorgoup Meeting ends with zero agreement after 9 hours of rumor-mongering and escalating tensions. Local reporters noted the leaders could not even agree on what to disagree about as an increasing number of EU member states pushed for either a Grexit or considerably tougher sanctions austerity on the Greeks.
End of #Eurogroup session. To be continued tomorrow.
— Alexander Stubb (@alexstubb) July 11, 2015
From the man himself...
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS TALKS ARE STILL VERY DIFFICULT
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS ISSUE OF GREEK TRUST VERY DIFFICULT
- *DIJSSELBLOEM: `WE DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION YET'
- *DIJSSELBLOEM SAYS `HUGE PROBLEMS' REMAIN IN GREEK TALKS
- *DIJSSELBLOEM: `FOR SURE IT WAS A DIFFICULT MEEETING'
Summing up the meeting perfectly...
"Is it a yes or a no," the Slovakian finmin @KazimirPeter is asked as he leaves. "No is the better answer," he replies #Greece
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) July 11, 2015
As Reuters reports (rather more hopefully than many),
Euro zone finance ministers were trying to draft a joint statement on Saturday listing further measures they want Greece to take in order to launch negotiations on a bailout Athens has requested, an EU source said.
The Greek government has put forward a set of reform plans to meet conditions for a three-year loan from euro zone partners but finance ministers said they did not go far enough and several sources said the other 18 euro zone states want Athens to offer additional actions and guarantees of implementation.
* * *
Don't worry though:
- *MOSCOVICI SAYS THERE'S `ALWAYS HOPE' AND TALKS RESUME SUNDAY
Do these look like faces of hope?
There is no press conference and the meeting will resume tomorrow at 11am... shortly before FX markets open.
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These EU meetings fucking waste of taxpayers money.
I'd rather they waste a few million of our taxmoney and use it to point out where the EXIT door is to any wannabe Marxist.
...but what does Phoenix Capitol think is going to happen?
The Great Global Debt Default Of 2015
BOHICA bitchez!
Wait a minute!
Today's the Fucking Deadline! (The One and Only Last Chance Drop Dead-Line in the Sand or We Won't Pay You to Pay Us Back)
Looks like somebody's trying to delay a day of reckoning.
I never thought I'd take solace in Nuland's "Fuck the EU"
Bankers are playing hardball. They want the the Greeks to hand over, as a 'confidence builder,' the deeds to everything that's nailed down in Greece, for sale to pay down the conjoured up funds. Then the circle will be closed: journal entries into hectares for the bankers.
Send in the panzers... and maybe some clawed hammers and crowbars for removing nails... SEIZE the Elgin marbles... that money simply must be returned to it's rightful conjuror in one form or another.
WAIT!... what's a Greek child selling for on e-bay these days?
Systemic cost of Greece defaulting on 100% of its debt: €230bn
(Greece may or may not default, and if it does it will only be on a small percentage of the total debt).
Systemic cost of Chinese equity crash: $3,500 bn
(^^ This already happened yet was overshadowed by the former).
You are being distracted by theatre. The real event is OVER THERE ->>
Trust me. Greece ain't going nowhere. They are now slaves of the Germans once again. They enjoy a little rough Greek now and then.
No shit. Glad I wasn't the only one to notice. But Greece is the media focus, and the newer Tyler's focus...so we talk about it as it keeps popping up.
I'm hoping Greece goes Iceland, tells Europe to kiss it's ass over the 'Odious' debt and starts printing drachmas or sheepsskins or olive-barks each of which is backed by something solid like gold/silver/or even fucking tourist hours.
The Euro, and the dollar, is backed by NOTHING. To see a currency come about backed by SOMETHING would be momentous. The Greeks have the opportunity to destroy not only the Euro, but the dollar, in one stroke. Back their currency to something that actually exists.
China, yeah, they're a much bigger shit-pile, in logrithmic terms. As their economy contracts by 1%, the world contracts by 5%, and since our War Criminal Government's official policy has been to send China every bit of our production and reduce our nation to a mere service oriented economy, we're going to be especially hammered by China, and greased by Greece via the Euro.
It's like history rhymes. 1930's had Smoot-Hawley, 2015 we have TPP, Dodd-Frank, ObamaCare, and other law making farces.
WWIII is going to be a bitch. And I've been a patriot my entire fucking life, volunteer enlisted to the Marines when the draft was first lifted. 1977-1978. But, this time, I hope our War Criminal Government gets it's ass handed to it, made to eat shit, is forced, by frog-march and perp walk, to War Crimes Trials at the Hague, and we watch hundreds of thousands of Current and former Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Supremes, Department Heads, Pentagon Leaders (current and past), Vice Presidents of all eras, Cabinet members of all eras, and every level of government reduced by senior managers by fourteen levels (that includes the CIA/FBI/NSA/DOJ but only if it gets down to the janitor levels. Everything in those so-called institutions needs to be completely fumigated and the dead swept out to an anonymous dump in some unlikely State like Idaho or Arizona).
When it starts, I'm hoping China/Russia are merciful and recognize that the vast expanse of America does not support the War Criminal Government of DC. And the EMP, and subsequent nuking, will be concentrated on a relatively small area of Virginia/Maryland, afterwhich will be an absolute no fly zone, and a completed wall around the entire area. Height to be determined by the highest building contained therein.
I'm so sick of our war criminal government that I really want to see the day they are defeated by a foreign power. God help me. I never thought I would ever say anything like that in my prior propagandized then, later, asleep state. I was a Marine PFC, Mom is an AF SCMSGT, Dad is an AF SMSGT...each one of us sees whats going on. Dad flies a Soviet Flag and a distressed American Flag. Mom just gets upset when I ask her questions and doesn't want to talk about it. (Both are now long married to other people.)
I'd be cheering each hanging like most would cheer a goal by some fucking, globalist owned, team of one sort or the other.
The distractions are made on purpose, and most fall for it because it's easy to do. The primary topics on ZH since it's downfall back in 20010/2011 seem to be centered on what the MSN is chattering about, or some superficial glance at what is happening in the world. Every once in a while, it seems like an ORIGINAL TYLER pops up, overrides the whole shitshow, and produces an epic analysis of what the fuck is really going on.
In between, we are entertained by Millennial Tyler who is strained with spelling, grammer, paragraphs, and a host of other journalistic requirements. But we're forgiving and ignore the horror of english grammer.
Logged in to upvote you +1000, i felt that post
Multiply both those numbers by at least 10. All those debts are counted as assets at the bank, then used as collateral to underpin derivatives plays at massive leverage.
Most excellent observation Grasshopper.
A Euro in hand is worth 10 on the balance sheet.
That Chinese equity crash came after a run up in prices that was three times the quick decline. It was a reshuffle of paper and ownership wealth. The angels simply took back some of the fairy dust that was in oversupply.
The Greeks have consumed in excess over a 30 year period. Paying now for past overconsumption is a great deal different from having some savings values - equity prices - revalued to remove gains made in the last six months.
Come on. The Chinese $3.5T was only MADE in the last 90 days. Let's not confuse stock market portfolio value with 'wealth.'
This is the ultimate hypocracy was it not just 7 years ago that the Federal Reserve recapitilized European banks to the tune of $15 TRILLION.. Now they will let Greece choke over $25 billion. Greece should fully drop the euro and then lock their new regional currency back against it at 80 cents.. Worked for China. Let Merkel that fat bird eat cake..
The problem is that the wrong people are trying to accomplish the wrong things. Banksters need to be removed from the discussion, because they caused the problem in the first place. Then identify who can lead the Greek people in rebuilding the real economy and work with those folks. THE DEADLOCK WILL NOT BE BROKEN UNTIL BANKSTERS ARE REMOVED FROM THE DISCUSSION, BECAUSE THE ONLY CONCERN OF THE BANKSTERS IS THE PROTECTION OF THEIR DEBT INSTRUMENTS. THEY DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT GREECE OR THE GREEK PEOPLE.
These meetings are precedent-setting, because the entire western world is presently in the thrall of this same confetti-issuing Legion of Psychopaths. CUT THE DEBT CORD NOW, GET THE COLLAPSE OVER WITH, RESUME ISSUING A NEW HARD NATIONAL CURRENCY, AND START REBUILDING THE REAL ECONOMY. IT'S TIME FOR THE GREEK NATION TO BE PUT BACK IN GREEK HANDS.
Deadline #34. By this time next year? Deadline #66.
I was under the impression that these were a weekly occurence...
That will put is at Deadline #88, perchance?
Here is what the root of the problem is...Although this video ridicules Austrailian Politicians it actually applies TO ALL OF THEM...
Enjoy some Clarke and Dawes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQoT9xXRXtY
And here is another one about Greece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0De210TBQ
And the best for last..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOzR3UAyXao
lest we all forget: big .gov and it's current politicians love problems, not solutions..
open borders is a national issue year after year..with pols talking and demanding actions which are NEVER implemented..
if .gov was effective, they would have solved this greek debt issue long ago..but what we get is constant MSM propaganda about how bad it all is, and pols meeting and talking and talking..the art of mole hills into mountains is a modern characteristic of all pols and leadership of all big international corps and banks.
if .gov solved problems it would become smaller and smaller..it's real job is to make problems, not solve them, if they did they would lose power and graft.
greece is a gift to the pols of the EU that keeps on giving.
I'll agree with her also - fuck the EU!
However, since they are already fucking themselves all I will do is sit and watch.
The classic line used to be, "I fear the Greeks, even when bearing gifts." Now it is something more along the lines, "I fear the Greeks are looking for more gifts again."
The thing is, and not to defend them, but anyone who says what Phoenix Capital has been saying will happen, won't happen, and has no chance of happening, is a fool. It is more a timing issue. Unsustainable debt cannot be paid. Period. Only inflation or currency reset cures this ill. Period.
schatzi said: "...point out where the EXIT door is to any wannabe Marxist."
If all the central bankers walk out you might have a point.
They are all Marxist and Facist meglomaniac fucks.
As the old saying goes, if someone owes you money, you own them. However, if someone owes you a ton of money, they own you.
The bankers will fold, as they will choose to remain in business over trusting Greece.
Not this time I don't think.
But then again I've been wrong before... and call it a hunch but this time I am expecting a Greek Moses to shortly appear.
Regardless of how untrustworthy they are (and their word is not worth a squirt of piss), I still say the Greeks get bailed out. The only thing that can really blow the deal for the Greeks is if Obama gets heavily involved on their behalf. Then they're toast.
I hope you're right.
Anyway rather than worry about it any more i think I'll just enjoy the sunshine and normalcy from here on in while it lasts.
Life is too short.
The Greeks are bankrupt no mather what they do. There won't be any moses, but a long and painfull way of recovery.
Banks outside of Greece are no longer owed money. That's what the earlier bailouts were for. To take modest write offs and dump the rest of the debt on the taxpayers.Now it's time for the governments to put the hammer to Greece. Funny thing is up to now (180 years since independence) they have never paid a net $ or pound or Euro or anything back to anyone. The last four years they have received a net 85 billion euros above what they paid back. And that degree of reduced subsidy has led to an ugly depression. Reality is a b*tch.
I agree. I'm sitting here with a six pack in me and some Bombay Sapphire on ice waiting to go down. Probably won't wake in time to see any sunshine, but I'm thinking that will be normal from here on out anyway. SKOAL!
Alexander Stubb in happier times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdAynVBCsmo
GREECE IS a fucking waste of taxpayers money.
There. Fixed it for ya, idiot.
Always ready to defend the unpopular view...having said that there is no way the EU survives this.
Renzi of Italy will support the Greek position ONE HUNDRED AND TEN PERCENT.
"Podemos" will now surge and France will simply be...well, France. (Total chaos.)
Germany has WAY overplayed their hand...there is no going back from this now.
interestimg to think how Putin might come to viewed in all this...
Ah c'mon.
They may not be smiling, but they all have beautiful blue suits - I never knew that was the uniform of finance.
Taxpayer's money wasted? I don't think so - i just learned about finance fashion!!!
Yep, they are hunting for goodwill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VFCQNdgDHE
Yep, they are hunting for goodwill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VFCQNdgDHE
This form of governance is called Indecision by Circle Jerk
This is becoming quite embarrassing really for the EU (and the US has to remind them who's the boss re geopolitics and get it over with)
The best committees consist of only two people and where only one turns up to meetings.
The Eurogroup is basically showing how clueless and disjointed they are.
As long as Greece can secure enough foodstuffs and fuel to keep the wheels of society going, the rest will work itself out over time.
As things stand both sides are in denial......the Europeans can't accept that the Greek debt is toast and the Greeks can't accept that their systems and attitudes need a major overhaul.
Greece's government can't function without perpetually taking on more debt, and the debt spigot has been turned off. There are three ways to finance a government: 1) Collect Tax Revenues 2) Issue Govt. Bonds (borrow) 3) Print.
Greece cannot get anyone to pay taxes - the population considers taxes to be theft. Greece can't print - they don't have their own currency. Now they can't borrow any more. Game over and default.
Here in the U.S. we borrow 40% of our Federal budget every year; sometimes much more, never less. Imagine what would happen here if we suddenly couldn't borrow any more. All Hell would break loose. But at least we could still tax & print.
Sounds like my in-laws.
How about cut your fucking spending and work more than 10 hours a week and past the age of 50.
Yes, of course that will have to happen. But it's too late for many; the Greek economy was never prosperous and now it's in utter ruins.
Unemployment is rampant. 50% youth unemployment! Many of those that do work have government jobs paid for by the government borrowing. The few that do have productive private sector jobs are used to not paying taxes yet receiving guaranteed pensions, free healthcare, free college education for their kids, etc.
Greece was never able to afford the European socialism they signed up for when they joined the Eurozone. All those services cost money, and the few countries that do make it work have very high tax rates and reasonably productive economies. Greece has neither, and never did.
The criminal imbeciles who loaned Greece all that money over the years and put the loans on their books as viable assets that will be paid back with interest should be every bit as ruined as the Greek people. And that's what the current EU frustration is all about. NO ONE wants to accept the fact that it's default and game over for all players.
What you say is true (itstippy) but the US is no longer "borrowing" as the FED is now printing to buy the bonds the treasury is issuing (QE). I guess that is technically borrowing as interest is accruing but that is really a technicality since none of that debt is going to be repaid. The US gov't would have to cut "borrowing" by 40% just to have a balanced budget which it still wouldn't have because the tax receipts would crash along with the economy, requiring even further spending cuts which would further crash the economy (see where we are going with this?). Then they would have to set aside tax revenue to actually pay down the 18trillion debt. That doesn't even TOUCH the $200 trillion in out year spending that the gov't has committed to spending (medicare, SS, Gov't pensions, etc). Not happening.
Cutting 40% out of the budget would crash the economy into a severe depression (more severe than what we are experiencing) and all debts would default, including gov't as the economy would experience a sudden stop. If they printed to pay off sovereign debt with no economy functioning the money would be deemed worthless. There isn't anyway back and they must have known this when they went off the gold standard back in 71. Fucking Nixon. All he had to do was basically stop spending on wars along with foreign fuck-fuck adventurism and we could have lasted decades longer then we did. I'm assuming we don't make it past 2017 (probably this Sept/Oct) with this charade.
..."the population considers taxes to be theft." You gotta love those Greeks. They've been around a long time, and they definitely get a lot of things right.
Itstippy,
I agree.
There is a Greece lurking in every corner of the globe.
Imagine what would happen here if we suddenly couldn't borrow any more. All Hell would break loose. But at least we could still tax & print.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In theory, that should NEVER happen. Here's why:
1. Congress authorizes moar $$ to be printed & added to the Fed's balance sheet.
2. The Fed lends it to the banks at near zero interest.
3. In turn, the banks lend it back to the Government at practically the same interest rate
4. Wash, rinse & repeat
Except for the fact that interest rates are going down. So while the Govenrment's deficit is growing, the cost of interest is holding relatively steady, or decreasing. If the yield on the 10 year UST ever rises above 4%, then all Hell will break loose. But the Powers-that-Be will pull out ALL the stops to keep that from happening.
It's $$ for nothing and your chicks for free.
"This is becoming quite embarrassing really for the EU (and the US has to remind them who's the boss re geopolitics and get it over with)"
I disagree. The "EU" went declarably insane the day the Euro was adopted. The Euro was a HUGE mistake. HUGE.
America can absorb another state into its Union, so go ahead Greece: become an American state or at least a territory.The US defense budget can deal with your debts - you'll see, it will be a good deal and fuck knows there will be jobs galore. Get in there Greece, before Cuba does.
Come on USA, do your fucking duty: In the name of Democracy make Greece a state.
Like the Rome of olde did.
I can't wait for Senator Tsipras.
US can barely hold onto the states it has ... illegals have more privilgeges in California than the natives. On another note, if we trade Puerto Rico for Greece, we get better food out of the deal, but I can't say who gets the better women.
Maybe we should trade Puerto Rico for California.
"illegals have more privilgeges in California than the natives"
What Greece should do is travel to Mexico, get Mexican names and identities, sneak in as undocumented immigrants and sponge off of our system.
Just until the EU realizes that they don't want to help the banking/oil cartel.
As a matter of fact, we all should go to Mexico, then get Mexican names- sneak across the border as undocumented immigrants and sponge off the system with affirmative action priveleges. It would work better if we got California area codes tatted on our bald heads, maca on the eyebrows and a gang name tattooed on our bald head.
I had to go to the hospital this week and I was seen TWO hours after my scheduled appointment from the illegal entitlement fairy. I was a legal citizen. Also, there was a waiting room to see an obgyn that sat 30 people. That room was filled to the brim, with preggers waitng out in the hallway to be seen. I counted maybe, 20 latino families, 5 caucasians and maybe 5 blacks. Either they were conceiving or trying to conceive. And these people were not white collar professionals. One as a matter of fact was a member of a dangerous gang in Socal. Funny how I with a college degree struggle- and never had the money for an Iphone, yet every other entitlement beneficiary was playing on theirs. Their kids had Iphones.
Don't Iphone come with foodstamps now? I wouldn't be surprised if they did, and if I did upgrade- I'm getting android or samsung so I don't have to be confused with them. And that Samsung really is a better buy.
But anyways. It's too dangerous to illegally sneak into the U.K. now, where you're completely covered going through a tunnel under the border or bribing border patrol. (yes this was documented in Times magazine featuring the pot industry).
Youll change $86 billion around 90% gdp ratio debt for $350 billion 200% gdp ratio debt? Plus PR has very good food and no match for chicks.
Tsipras would fit right in with the rest of the socialists.
At least the US had the luck of not stumbling into bringing in Puerto Rico as the 51 state!
As it is, PR has one hand tied behind its back - it is "sort of" a US State - it uses US dollars, gets lots of US dollars for Federal programs, but the people pay US style taxes (although what is collected stays in PR) - and in return the US uses PR as a fertile source of Military volunteers (PR guys make pretty good soldiers).
Unfortunately, PR succumbed to the give me something for free mentality, and EBT now covers a huge percentage of the population, and the bond problems they have are just one symptom of the rot that runs up and down the island. The PR leftists didn't help matters by quarrelling with the US Military, who have almost completely gone from the island (they were a significant employer in the eastern part at the now abandoned immense Roosevelt Roads Navy base for example) - the US Military still recruits there, of course.
Borinquen is a beautiful place, its people are pretty hard working by Caribbean standards, but there is just too much disparity with, say, Texas.As an independent country, PR would leave the Domincan Republic, Cuba, even Jamaica in the dust and would probably do quite well within Latin America, perhaps even becoming a Tiger in the Asian sense (at the expense of stretching a metaphor - the Caribbean is not Asia)
One can say similar things about Greece... they really mortaged their future in getting the vampire squid to shuffle the paper enough to get them into the EU. The Euro leaves them in a straight-jacket...
I agree with this.
"As if Europe doesn't know better...
#glimmerofhope
More like #kissofdeath
"Greece is FINISHED."
My money is on the New York Stock Exchange closing for the week.
I wonder if I would straight up lose my options that expire 7/17(18)? That would be some shit.
And My money is on the New York Stock Exchange crashing for the week.
They've had lots of practice recently. Now you know why!
NYSE no longer has crashes ... just a lot of unscheduled software updates.
This is not news worth worrying about, the real news will be how many people will object to renaming the USA after Trump after he wins the election. We know he loves to put his personal stamp on anything he touches. :)
TRUMP STATES or the United States of Trump.... has a certain ring to it... regardless yer also fucked ... print moar fiat...
www.teamramgold.com
the whole thing is a fuckin joke.... moar of everything .... except solutions
www.teamramgold.com for the most competitive gold bullion on the net
- produced by an LBMA Yea like I'm going to buy a plastic card from the fuckin LBMA with supposed gold sealed inside it?
I have, and they are excellent... this is not a fraud/scam... btw why the negatiity?
OK melt a card down and show me what you find with a youtube video.
we have actually,, and unsuprisinigly we found 999.9 gold.... 1.01 gram infact..
perhaps that plastic credit card in your wallet is a fraud... but look at the faith you place in that... it controls most peoples lives... 20% interest on digital fiat... hmmmm,,,,who's fuckin who??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKJOklV2Xeg (not my video but answers your question)
Good link. Thanks
After Breaking Greek resolve and forcing them to pass the unconditional capitulation decree, they are going after destruction of Syriza as I predicted. It is all about, destruction of Greek and European Left not about money or anything else.
If this does not reveal for you the truth that EU is just an pan-European corporate fascist party that uses economy and propaganda for their political means and ends, than nothing will.
Absolutely spot on.
Greece did everything they were suppose to.
The EUROFAGS had ZERO PLAN to recap the Banks.
We'll find out if they cobble serving together tomorrow...no way there is any trading in ANY market save US Treasuries come Monday if absolutely nothing happens and Europe simply "walks away."
Absolutely moronic.
Syriza is going to get destroyed because they promised the voters unicorns (more free money from the rest of Europe & no reforms), which - of course - they cannot possibly deliver. This was 100% predictable. I myself predicted long long ago that Tsiprick and Varafuckface would end their glorious careers as socialist demagogues either fleeing the country or hanging from a lamppost.
Bon voyage assholes.
Varofakis was smart enough to get fired/quit as fin min. He will be fine. After the Grexit turnoil, he might end up running the place. Tsipiras could end up dangling from a lamp-post or tree, though.
Rhetoric in opposition is all they're good at. Put the Left in power and they're like a rabbit in the headlights.
Raining German trolls today, longing for a new
Führer.Schauble ain't good enough? Or you like Merkel better? FDJ communist turncoat !!! if you did not know. So you learn before you utter a nonsense.
Those look like faces of the condemned to die to me. Just add in Dimon, Blankfein and a few others.
Uhh ohh... It's time to ramp up 'Barter Town' and bring in some really good Belgian caterers.
It's a good thing I hedged my trades, cause those gaps are gonna be ugly tomorrow, if these clowns keep chasing parked cars.
PANIC YEN BUYING!
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If I didn't see it with my own eyes I wouldnt believe it even possible.
"HI IM CRAMER!
WELCOME TO CRIMERICA!
IM NOT HERE TO BE YOUR FRIEND....IM HERE TO FUCK YOU IN THE ASS!!!...
It looked like panic yen selling Thursday and Friday to me. The BOJ was buying $usd hand over fist, even as the $usdx sold off. I'm sure there was some "carry trade" unwinding involved as well.
Between the gapping up and down and the continent-size spreads whenever shit starts moving, how do you survive? I'm quite impressed.
continent-size spreads? The usual spread in usd/jpy is {.9-1.4 pips.} If the market conditions are going to turmoil over the weekend, you hedge your trades.
You can have limit or stop orders on the books, but you won't get a good fill if the markets gap over your orders, so you hedge.(buy protection against open trades.) If the market moves in your anticipated direction, your already filled, and if it doesn't your protection minimises your loss exposure, and reverses the trade in the other money making direction.
Personally, I'm flat all the yen trades. I'm long the commodity trade, because gold/silver is going to spike when the wheels come off the Greek cart.
Thanks for the response, Yen. I wasn't speaking solely of USD/JPY trading regarding spreads, although my "Liquidity Provider" also seems to have a rather long "queue" for orders forming when action hots up, regardless of the market in question.
Cramer was on hardcore pawn?
dis gon b gud
Anyone who has a little on the ball can recognize a pathological liar by the time they are 16. Greeks are pathological liars. That makes dealing with them very easy: Anything they say is a lie, and any promise they make won't be kept.
The welfare-state teaches people to be dishonest, in order to game the system.
In this regard, Greece = any inner city in the US
The Greeks realized back in the early 00's that they could mooch off the Germans to finance their Welfare State if they could get into the Euro. So they paid Goldman Sachs to hide their debt and make their numbers look better. Now Z Germans are sick and tired of being taken for suckers and want a Grexit.
Well said.
Course, the Syriza-fellaters round here will say it's the bankers' fault.
...as if the government of Greece were some crackhead from South Central who didn't know how to read a loan document.
Yup, definitely the bankers fault; nothing at all to do with the policies of successive Greek governments. Democracy is always pure and good and unicorns and puppies and rainbows Amen!
Hey pal, everyone of them knew Greece's numbers weren't good, as well as they knew italian ones were fake too, and some others as well.
The Eurozone wasn't created for the sake of the nations or the people, but for the benefit of the banking élite. Loans don't go to the people, the "saved" ones are the banks. Bailouts for everybody. Austerity for the People.
ECB is the f.-king banksters dream! (So is the FED).
Do you realize the ECB is a Central Bank owned by Central Banks who are controlled by private bankers?
Do you know who owns the FED?
Actually the white supremacist methheads are mack daddy pathelogical liars.
THey're so bad they forget what they're lying about- it's just one after another. Clusterfuck b type personalities.
Whereas, what the Juice says his word is his bond?
Moscovici looks like he has swallowed the Euro monetary serpent all in one.
His face tells the tale : Hollande, it ain't looking good. Mutti looks like she will say NEIN again, in spite of seeing Tsipras in his underwear. Now what can we sell her to make her change her mind?
She won't be impressed by anything smaller than the Parthenon ! Can Tsipras sell her a cheap ticket on the Transsiberian to Vlad i vostock?
Maybe he can try and sell the TAJ as well ! How many rabbits can a greek pull out of his underwear?
Meanwhile Schauble keeps mumbling : once a greek always a thief.
And Juncker keeps mumbling : If she says NEIN again who will buy my Lux Laundrette? the Euro will be weimar money!
And Mutti thinks : Wasn't I better off in East Germany? My pair were so straight then you could have called them V1 & V2 ready for blast off ! Now they feel like sad sack and doggy bag! Why oh why did I take this job?
Hey Falak, what is your personal opinion of what should be done ?
dont worry, there will be a rumored deal late tomm night just in time for futures to open.
The system is held up on faith and credit. Without faith and credit the system loses value to all parties. This will happen over night.
Short already. Just waiting for the best Friday to get really short a few more notches down.
Get SRTY ?
"German Americans comprise about 50 million people, making them the largest self-reported ancestry group in the United States, ahead of Irish Americans, African Americans and English Americans"
How is this for an overhaul.
Before Europe can impose a debt haircut to simply prop the banks, the Greek government should haircut Greek savings say by 50% and simultaneously haircut the debt of every beleaguered household by the same amount.
The debt written off will remain in abeyance until such times as the house is sold and if it sells for more than the remaining debt, then the bank can claw back some of the amount originally written off.
Donald Trump could afford Greece, turn it into a golf resort.
The Trumpster will go one better than that. He owns Miss Universe. He will bring all the beauties to the Greek Islands to attract the rich and famous, buy a bank or two and launder money as he will likely have no opposition to that there.
Greece has a small population. The Donald should be able to support them.
Greece has shortages...but beautiful women isn't one of them
All the beauties minus the ones who speak spanish and Venezuela usually has the winner. Trump has been universally trashed throughout latin america.
All that latino trashing by the Trumpster is with the intent of driving the latino vote into the arms of... Hillary or Jeb.
IMHO I seriously think he is a side show and will burn himself out like a Roman candle... remember he made noises back in 2008 and 2012 as well...
I presume that is DB with his back to the camera, he can't even get his suit fit right, and that is his OWN BODY so what chance more important things like the Greek debt negotiation is possible!
Stomach churning watching these Eurotrash Execs chest out , trash talking as if the they have the problems , they created, all on their own shoulders.
. . and if you tell them the name of the game boy, it's gonna drive you insane.
Let's just say the French are petrified of the undisclosed liabilities they are sitting on. If there's any contagion, it is France that will be the biggie. Hence their cosying up to USA lately, and Obombya's public intervention.
Based on current interbank f/x rates, it looks like the "farce" still has some life left in it.
Draghi would love nothing more than bond yields to blow up so he can flood the European Union with cash as he buys every bond the market can provide for him.
The Euro won't tank because traders will front run the ECB,(buy euros to purchase euro bonds) just like they do with the Fed. ( maybe 100-200 pips from the initial headline)
"The secret report that shows how the Nazis planned a Fourth Reich ...in the EU":
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179902/Revealed-The-secret-report-shows-Nazis-planned-Fourth-Reich--EU.html#ixzz3fcvs8cTu
"Walter Hallstein became the first president of the [EU] Commission in 1958. He had been a member of many leading Nazi organizations, the most significant of which were the National Socialist University Lecturers Association. And he was also a member of the National Socialist League for Protection of the Law…Such organizations were not like being a mere member of the Nazi Party. They were central cadres of Nazi rule"
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=2675
The Nazi didn't planned a Fourth Reich. Hallstein made the perfect puppet for the group who actually did plan the destruction of Europe. He was easy to blackmail because of his Nazi past. Having a dossier, being blackmailable is a pre-requisite for politicians in Western World after WW2. If you cannot prove your loyalty to ypur masters, you won't get any funds, tv time, etc. The Zionist Jews are destroying us. By us, I mean the entire Western Civilization.
Tsipras betrayed his own people. Why would anyone trust him?
Yeah, he's 0 for 3, isn't he? Betrays his country, then Syriza, and lastly the European Union.
Nice guy.
That you placed any faith in Tsipras indicates that you still cannot accept the true nature of the problem.
The Greek government's policies have (over many decades) made the Greek private sector highly unproductive (too much regulation, tax, unions, subsidies, etc), and simultaneously ballooned both welfare spending and the number of government employees. Host gets smaller, parasite gets bigger. A few years ago, it got to the point that the host was going to die (and of course the parasite along with it), but they delayed the inevitable for a while by borrowing more from the rest of Europe.
Tsipras' failure was not that he failed to milk more cash from Europe, in order to kick the can a little longer; but that he failed to undertake major economic reforms to free the private sector and shrink the public sector - of course, that failure was 100% guaranteed from the day he was elected, given his socialist ideology.
Yes, expecting a socialist to reform a country and make it more free market based was always a futile hope.
But expecting one to say "screw you" to banks would be warranted.
Just amazing worldwide the elected fucktards in charge.
Balancing an agreement on "trust" is a tricky one.
At the end of the day (or night) Dieselboom & Co will have to decide that this time they can trust the Greeks to deliver, or not.
Greek domestic conditions mitigate against that. There is very little the Greeks can offer to provide the necessary assurances except their word and a few sigs on documents. We all know what that's lead to in previous negotiations.
This doesn't have anything to do with trust. They know with 100% certainty that not one "reform" proposed by Greece will be implemented. The paper they print any agreement on is toilet paper. What they are worried about is selling the deal politically at home and stock indices - that's the balancing act
Maybe you missed my point...
The reason why trust has been elevated to the balancing point by Dieselboom and Troika is precisely because they already know that Greece cannot provide any rock-solid assurances/guarantees of their trust and have a v/bad track record. That then opens the door for the creditors to not do a deal and to blame it on the Greeks.
Of course if Greece were to cough up the pink slip on their Islands along with all the offshore oil/gas concessions I figure the bankers would be convinced to hit the Alt Print button on their Euro machine and make the attendant ledger entry for the Greeks.
Well, maybe Greek oil/gas is what the vultures are really after.
Since you raise the subject of the Greek oil/gas deposits - which are very substantial last time I looked - oddly these haven't been mentioned for a long while as I recall and never in the Troika meetings.
Are these the golden eggs that no one wants to talk about?
If so, why is Tsipras so frightened to quit the EZ? Russia would surely provide the tech-know-how to exploit them.
Merkel needs Greece, and the Greek crisis. So long as the EU can limp along with a sick Greece in the fold, pressure in the FX markets will be to weaken the Euro, which is artificially low in large part due to fears of Greek collapse. Without the sick man of Greece, the EU would look stronger and the Euro would strengthen. Merkel's nightmare is any strengthening of the Euro. From Euro weakness, Germany can hide from it's nation's real currency value, based on it's economy. With the sick EU scenario, Germany can export like crazy using the low Euro as a major boost to export prices. A look at Germany's trade surplus makes pretty clear the role a troubled Euro currency plays in keeping Germany the major exporter of the western world. Merkel knows this, she want and needs a weak Euro. Germany hides inside the weak southern economies, and is the powerhouse exporter, helped by perception of the Euro as troubled.
The weak euro is needed by Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, etc........ and last by Germany. Germany's products are high quality and they will be bought at higer prices anyway because their customers are the high hend , .1% of the society. There is no reason for a country with high savings, due to excessive positive trade, to devalue the currency of the same savings.
I don't think so. You surely can't just slap another 20% or 40% on the price of a BMW or Merc and expect sales not to decline a lot. If you could then the automakers would have done so already anyway. :) Besides, there's also the de facto "exchange rate" for trade inside the Eurozone.
If the Greek experiment, started by Mario @GS and the EU, had worked, then it would have ushered a new era where massive debts could somehow be 'fixed'.
Just imagine if there was a way to finance/fiat/ponzi/polticize/dice&cut your way out of a massive debt...it would be amazing and wonderful.
But the facts remain...and there remains No Exit.
Nah. Germany doesn't need Greece. The ECB can always weaken the Euro with moar QE, and if that doesn't work, they can go full retard with NIRP and print Euros to buy Dollars. And Z Germans want to put some fear into France and Italy.
About 500 years before Christ the Greeks kicked the Persians (Iranians) ass although greatly out numbered.
Wonder if they still have it in them, or have they been softened up by psychological banker warfare like everyone else.
Answer: They've been softened up.
While the Persians have been toughened up.
Been saying it for 3 years...EU will fold, Greece won't implement any change, we will be back here in 6 months when they burn through the money and then we will do it all over again. Haven't been wrong, yet
Thanks Graham Summers Mr Phoenix, you never been wrong
Because no matter how you package the meat, it's still rotten.
pretty sure Greece wasn't lying when they said they weren't going to payback anything and that the EU can go pound-sand as they're never paying back squat.
They're all blaming Greece"trust" of course, but Peter Kažimír may have given it away on Twitter:
By now this may actually be a bigger obstacle than whatever the Greek government can be made to agree to. Is IMF ready to roll over, produce a revised DSA (this time with 34% more farce) declaring a Greek program with no debt relief viable, and put more of Brazil's money down the black hole? Even if it is, I don't think the EU leaders can stomach another round of making outlandish debt sustainability promises then being called out by reality. Especially after the IMF just publicly blamed them for the last few cycles, and now that the next debt/compliance crisis or mini-crisis could be mere months away. (You think the Greek public is big on tax noncompliance now? Just think what they'll be like under Bailout 3, after OXI.) Or what, try to do Bailout 3 without a DSA? Just publicly admit that the Greek debt is going to go to the moon under it?
Greece only solution is to default and have its own currency again. All other European countries know that. But Germany wants to teach a lesson to the other major economies too, namely France and Italy. These two countries in particular will soon be in the same situation as Greece unless they cut their same deficits, in the same way Greece is asked to do.
For a while I had this hunch that the plan was to leave the Euro and join the BRICS. The problem how to do it without appearing to willfully screwing the EU. I have no way of proving this. It is just a crazy hunch. If this were true it would bring up some interesting ramifications.
An asteroid could hit the earth and the headlines would still be about Greece. How about Fukushima? For survivability, southern hemisphere might be best if that one blows...
Tyler, greetings from Greece.
One thing you might want to consider is that Tsipras had to face the vast majority of the Greek population being in favor of the euro currency, up to 85%. All parliamentary parties were in favor of euro, even the communist one (if only for some time).
After two weeks of capital controls, support for euro has already fallen to 60%. That's a whopping 25%. Moreover, the Communist party and the Golden Dawn have taken a clear position of getting out of the euro zone as fast as possible, and even some of Syriza meps are now campaigning for drachma.
I will break this down for you in the simplest manner possible:
1. The European elites are tyrants; the same kind of tyrants that have declared themselves "God Kings" throughout human history.
2. They believe they are superior to the common rabble and therefore entitled to rule them and control them.
3. Greece has over 10 million people and quite a lot of territory.
4. What "God King" throughout history has ever wilingly cast off territory and peasants?
5. Therefore, the self styled "God Kings" of the E.U. ruling class will NEVER willingly allow Greece or the Greek people to escape their clutches.
6. Never.
It's that simple. I have been saying this for years, since this whole farce began. The "OXI" vote threw me for a loop for the European tyrants were quick to step up and show the world that European "Democracy" is not a real thing so the vote was irrelevant. THERE IS NO PEACEFUL MEANS OF ESCAPE FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION. Anyone who believes otherwise is a moron.
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=481296
"In 1990, Cabinet Minister Nicholas Ridley - a close ally of Margaret Thatcher - was forced to resign after he described proposed Economic and Monetary Union as "a German racket designed to take over the whole of Europe" and said that giving up sovereignty to the European Union was as bad as giving it up to Hitler."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/470967/The-EU-was-HITLER-S-idea-and-it-proves-Germany-WON-the-Second-World-War-claims-new-book
"'The EU: The Truth About The Fourth Reich - How Hitler Won The Second World War' argues the single currency, the free market and even the phrase "United States of Europe" were all dreamt up by high ranking Nazis, including the Fuhrer himself. It also claims the only country which benefits from the EU is Germany"
http://www.eu-facts.org/en/background/dark_roots_europe_lecture.html
"US Prosecutor Telford Taylor: without IG Farben, the Second World War would not have been possible. A document from the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, a letter written by IG Farben director Knieriem to the Nazi government on July 20, 1940 - shortly after the victory over France - outlines the tools by which IG Farben intended to cement its key role in Europe . The IG Farben letter specifies a common European currency, common European law, and even a European court system – all of that under the control of the Nazi/IG Farben coalition. "
Yeah, the Germans finally got smart and used debt instead of bombs and bullets.
HOLY MOLY!!!
Anybody seen THIS:
Behind Germany’s refusal to grant Greece debt relief – Op-Ed in The Guardian -- Yanis Varoufakis -- July 11, 2015
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/11/behind-germanys-refusal-to-grant-gr...
Wow.
If Varoufakeis was the real deal he'd have been suicided long ago, not turned in to a rock star. He's mister 'resistance if futile' for the ZWO cabal.
Greece is like that clingy gf/bf that you are trying desperately to dump, without being too blunt in order to let them save face, but they just will not take a hint, even when the hint is a baseball bat to the face.
I give Varoufakis credit, at least he figured it out. No wonder he bowed out without even a whimper of protest, he knows Greece is about to get pounded, and better to not be associated with what's about to happen.
The very concept of "Europe" has failed catastrophically. That fairy tale has reached its final chapter.
Now, the U.S.A. will get aggravated.
And the BRIICKS will simply rake in the gold.
Obama will do something dramatic to "save the situation." God knows what.
They look like faces of dopes.
But, give Germany credit. After 2 unsuccessful military campaigns to control Europe and Europeans, they have finally succeeded through the magic of debt and central banking.Hard to occupy countries with force, but was relatively easy to make them all serfs through debt.
Maybe them Germans are a smart group after all..
Maybe the "Germans" (their banker crowd, actually) are going to fall on their face in the cow do-do again. Maybe even because of... wait for it... Russia.
Ya,make Israel and Greece the 51st and 52nd stars on the Flag.Do it for the Fed.