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Schauble Proposes "5 Year Grexit With Humanitarian Support"
As we await the verdict on whether Greece will be in or out, here are the earlier comments from the Eurozone finance ministers and others attending the Eurogroup meeting, via Reuters:
GERMAN FINANCE MINISTER WOLFGANG SCHAEUBLE
- "We will have exceptionally difficult negotiations."
- "The problem is that that there was a situation at the end of the year that was very hopeful, despite all the scepticism of previous years, and that this was destroyed in an incredible way in the last months and hours.
- "We are dealing with financing gaps which exceed everything we have dealt with in the past."
- "We are talking about a completely new three-year programme."
LUXEMBOURG FINANCE MINISTER PIERRE GRAMEGNA
- "We, as Luxembourg, because we hold the EU presidency right now, are definitely ready to discuss debt restructuring, finalising is another issue."
SLOVAKIAN FINANCE MINISTER PETER KAZIMIR
- "I see a huge problem with DSA (debt sustainability analysis), so long-term sustainability of the Greek debt. So now we will see what the institutions will bring on the table, what kind of finances and we have to assess it... This package would be appropriate for the completion of the second programme, but I'm afraid this is not enough for the third programme, for the ESM programme."
EUROGROUP CHAIRMAN AND DUTCH FINANCE MINISTER JEROEN DIJSSELBLOEM
- "We are still far away. It looks quite complicated. On both content and the more complicated question of trust, even if it's all good on paper the question is whether it will get off the ground and will it happen. So I think we are facing a difficult negotiation."
- Will you talk about debt relief?
- "I don't know we will get to that."
- "There is still a lot of criticism on the proposal, reform side, fiscal side, and there is of course a major issue of trust. Can the Greek government be trusted to do what they are promising, to actually implement in coming weeks, months and years. I think those are the key issues that will be addressed today."
- (For Greeks to regain trust) "Well, they will have to listen to the ministers and the institutions first and see what improvements are needed. And they will have to show very very strong commitments to rebuild that trust."
FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER MICHEL SAPIN
- "Confidence has been ruined by every Greek government over many years which have sometimes made promises without making good on them at all. Today we need to have confidence again, to have certainty that decisions which are spoken of are decisions which are actually taken by the Greek government.
- On debt restructuring: "France has always said there is no taboo about the debt. We have the right to talk about the debt."
- We don't want there to be reduction in the nominal value of the debt because that is a red line for many of the member states in the Eurogroup.
- "France ... is a link, and we will play this linking role to the very end."
ITALIAN ECONOMY AND FINANCE PIER CARLO PADOAN
- "I expect a long finance ministers meeting on Greece. It is not very easy but we will do all we can."
- "The purpose of this meeting is to kick off negotiations on ESM which is a medium-term, very demanding programme and we are all here with open minds to reach an OK, a green light to start negotiations. The government, the Greek Parliament and the Greek people are positive towards starting what is the beginning of a negotiation. It is not about striking a deal tonight."
MALTESE FINANCE MINISTER EDWARD SCICLUNA
- "This (Greek issue) has to be solved today because it is a question of coming up with this framework which gives assurance to the finance ministers."
IRISH FINANCE MINISTER MICHAEL NOONAN
- "The Greek paper was silent on banking. Obviously the Greek banks are in difficulty now and it's going to be hard to put them back on an even keel, so we need a full briefing on that. Secondly I said we needed a medium term sustainable programme. Sustainability depends a lot on whether the programme is sufficient to cause the Greek economy to grow and to create jobs... It is very hard to stimulate an economy when on the demand you are doing corrective work so they need more supply side initiatives which effectively means a lot of reform which doesn't seem to be built into the programme."
- "I think the trust is now being rebuilt in the relationship with Greece. I would hope that trust would continue to be rebuilt today. That's pretty important also."
EUROPEAN COMMISSION VICE-PRESIDENT VALDIS DOMBROVSKIS
- "It must be said that we are clearly making progress and the Greek government's proposal actually is pretty much along the lines of what the institutions' proposal was before the referendum. So clearly we see there is a willingness of the Greek to reach an agreement and also the vote in parliament showed that there is a parliamentary majority to move ahead with this programme."
- "What we should be discussing today is basically about giving a mandate to the European Commission in liaison with the ECB and in close cooperation with the IMF to start negotiations about this ESM programme."
AUSTRIAN FINANCE MINISTER HANS JOERG SCHELLING
- Asked about whether he was positive on a deal: "Yes and no. Of course it is a step ahead that Greece has finally delivered, surprisingly what was already agreed before and surprisingly after the referendum. What is missing are the details. The biggest item we have to talk about is what guarantees Greece can give to implement what has been agreed. We have seen for five years now that such lists are sent, but the implementing measures never happen."
DUTCH JUNIOR FINANCE MINISTER ERIC WIEBES
- "The Greeks have clearly made a step forward but at the same time we see that the institutions are critical of the plan, the missing specificities and they see that the plan is weaker in some areas than it should be. It is their suggestion to only start negotiations when these conditions are further filled in.
- At the same time, many governments, mine too, have serious concerns about the commitment of the Greek government and also the power of the implementation. That has been the weak point because after all, we are discussing a proposal from the Greek government that was fiercely rejected a week ago, and that is a serious concern.
- (On what the Greeks can do further) we have to discuss that. Clearly there has to be made a step that enables trust with all the financing parties. (What happens if there is no agreement tonight) That is basically up to the Greek government."
IMF MANAGING DIRECTOR CHRISTINE LAGARDE
- "I think we are here to make a lot more progress."
EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AFFAIRS COMMISSIONER PIERRE MOSCOVICI
"Since the start, the European Commission had the objective, that of the integrity of the euro. It was to keep a reformed Greece in the euro zone."
"I note that the Greek government has made significant gestures."
"We (the creditors) have said the Greek reform programme could constitute a basis for a new programme."
"Our general sentiment is that there need to be reforms, solid reforms, reforms appropriate to the Greek authorities and reforms that are implemented as soon as possible."
* * *
And here are the punchlines:
First the Finns:
- Finnish Parliament Committee Opposes Greek Aid Talks
- Greek proposals don’t warrant negotiations on new bailout, public broadcaster YLE says, citing unnamed sources.
- Finnish parliament’s Grand Committee adopted position regarding Greek bailout request on Saturday; stance won’t be published ahead of Eurogroup debate in Brussels, state secretary Olli-Pekka Heinonen told local media
- MP Paavo Arhinmaki, head of Left Alliance, told Helsingin Sanomat newspaper he left dissenting opinion at Grand Committee meeting; said Greek govt proposals “could be basis to start talks”
And now, Greek nemesis #1, Schauble via Bloomberg:
- SCHAEUBLE PROPOSES TIME-LIMITED `GREXIT': FAZ.
- SCHAEUBLE SUGGESTS 5-YR GREXIT, HUMANITARIAN SUPPORT: FAZ
More from German Focus, google translated:
The German Finance Ministry has communicated its negative assessment of the Greek proposals to other Euro countries on Saturday. "These proposals are missing centrally important areas of reform to modernize the country and to advance on the long term economic growth and sustainable development," it said in the one-sided position paper, which was present at the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung (FAS). Therefore they could "not be the basis for a completely new, three-year ESM program".
Instead, the Treasury took two paths in the eye that remained.
One way: Greece improved its proposals quickly and comprehensively, with the full support of Parliament. The Ministry suggested among other things that Greece shall transfer assets amounting to 50 billion euros to a trust fund, which it sells and thus removes debt.
Way two: With Athens is negotiating a "time out". It leaves the euro zone for at least five years and restructures its debt. However, it remains the EU Member and receives further "growth-enhancing, humanitarian and technical assistance," says the "FAS".
And here's Reuters:
Germany's Finance Ministry believes Greece's latest reform proposals do not go far enough and has suggested two alternative courses for Athens including a "timeout" from the euro zone, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung (FAS) reported.
"These proposals miss out important central reform areas to modernise the country and to bring economic growth and sustainable development over the long term," the FAS quoted the ministry as writing in a position paper.
Instead, the ministry set out two alternative courses for Greece. Under the first, Athens would improve its proposals quickly and transfer assets worth 50 billion euros ($56 billion) to a fund in order to pay down its debt.
Under the second scenario, Greece would take a "timeout" from the euro zone of at least five years and restructure its debt, while remaining a member of the European Union.
In other words, Germany just said kick Greece out, conditionally, for 5 years (it is not quite clear what Greece would use for currency in the meantime), quarantine it, and treat it as a third-world country until 2020. Somehow we doubt global stocks expected this outcome when they soared on Friday.
As expected, Greece quickly denied this:
- GREEK GOVT OFFICIAL SAYS GREXIT PLAN NOT DISCUSSED IN EUROGROUP
And at least one member of the anti-German/austerity axis chimed in as well:
- The idea of giving Greece a sabbatical from the euro area cannot be taken seriously, an EU official says in Brussels.
- It is legally not feasible, makes no economic sense and is not in line with political reality, official says
- It is time now for a serious discussion and solutions, not for reactivating academic, non-practical ideas, official says
- Official says euro suspension is old idea floated by German academic Hans-Werner Sinn
But with Germany making its semi-officially position known, and with the reality that Greece would essentially have to abdicate sovereignty to assure Europe that it will comply with any additional bailout conditions and further spending cut demands (of which there will be plenty), just what is the other "serious solution" alternative here?
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Why is everyone so hyperbolic about Greece exiting the Euro? OMG it's going to be a third world country!, hyperinflation!, Venezuela! Ebola is going to spread and everyone is going to get A.I.D.S!
Greece has been around for a few thousand years and it's full of white people. It'll probably be crazy for a little while as it reintroduces it's currency but it'll be fine, in fact it will be better off.
it will definitely be better off in the long run.
Way too generous. Spain and Italy will want and probably get better terms than Greece does.
This is a multi-period game of begger thy neighbor.
Greece should just start printing Euro with the X serial numbers on them.
Brussels, we have a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CCdhCOFj74
Great background music .... we have liftoff 4,3,2,1 .....
...... while we ponder that the first Act has Just Begun ....
.... Fat Lady's Nowhere in Sight, Yet ....
Wow I didn’t see Varoufakis’s “conspiracy theory” bring proven correct so quickly.
Greece is on first.
Next up Spain and Italy is on deck.
The Euro is finished. It will take time but it is finished.
Paul Gambles said it very well last week:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000394194
None of the peripheral countries operate in a way that they fit within the Euro.
Now the pain begins as it is doubtful the Tsipras has any coordinated plan for exit as it appears it was always his plan to capitulate to the Eurozone.
Finland wants out of the Euro
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/rusvesna.su/news/1436616764
So, in other words, Greece will be placed on Super Secret Double Euro probation.
Yea, they already agreed to bump up their value added tax to 23% from 13% and start taxing their beach businesses. So, the banksters definitely want to keep them on the plantation. Oh, and they also raised the retirement age to 67 and lowered aged 62 yr old pensions by 15%, last I read.
It is very unlikely the German Social Democrats would support such a temporary "Grexit".
Too many cooks in the kitchen on what to do with Greece. They may end up with souvlaki jambalaya with ouzo sauce.
The Europeans need a nice sunny inexpensive place to vacation in the summer. Period. Let it be.
Say what you want. With a name like Wolfgang, and that look, he would have made a hell of a Nazi.
FUCK!
I thought today was the dealine?!?!?!?!
Schauble walks and proposes something a little more "stringent" for Greece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axAA2egWeaY
This is getting fucking hilarious watching these politico hacks doing the last dance to put the shit on the other guys face before it all falls apart.
That's all it is now.
Agreed - complete farce.
Euro doesn't work and everyone knows it.
NOne of the paper money systems are stable enough to work for that matter - and they know it.
Good short story of how Greece got to this point. Taki does not pull any punches, literally and figuratively.
http://takimag.com/article/demagogue_days_taki#axzz3fcRBofCQ
I was gonna insert a link to a YouTube wheelchair race, but I just can't bring myself to do something so rude and disrespectful of a handicapped person.
Greece will be with the Euro until the whole thing explodes. It's a dance of slow death. But those boys sure can keep the ball in the air for a long long time.
This deal breaks when Greek banks run out of money. Then we get zombie apocalypse
Yes
Old news Tyler.... this plan has been denied by the Germans
Wrong game. Check the rules. http://www.bartel.org/calvinball/
Certainly a great scarecrow/garden gnome.
If Greece wants to pull out of this and hve the last laugh then they should invest heavily in being an energy hub for Europe and legalize drugs.
Complete the gas pipeline the Russioans want to run through thier country. They already have refineries and chemical plants there, just need to invest in more of them so all refined petroleum products in Europe originate from Greece.
Legalize recreational drugs. Greece is already a major vacation getaway destination- throw legal drugs into the mix and it will become the #1 destination ofr partiers and vacationers all over the world.
in order for that to work they have to get the energy monopoly up and running first because the EU will be powerless to stop them as the Greeks will have control over the energy spigot.
they can rake in cash hand over fist, pay back all debts and laugh at the fools in the EU while they sip Ouzo and do a line or 2.
Greece will obtain a G14 Classified status.
Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping hide debts when it joined euro. (The Independent, 11 Jul 2015, today)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-debt-crisis-goldman-sachs-could-be-sued-for-helping-country-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html
Other:
Conspiracy zombi theory: The US Gov used Goldman to sabotage the EU via Greece. Seen it (EU) as too powerful, threatening $ hegemony and NATO?
Quite possibly. There was more than one commentator who didn't give it 10 years. Of course, there was no QE back then.
unpaid debt is EVERYWHERE
totally agree with you, I think that was the plan from the very begining. USA cannot have a competitor in the form of strong Europe.
I used to think Spain had no chance. They might make it. Growth at 3.2% is in the right direction. Unemployment is still stubbornly high at 20% but it too has been trimmed...if you believe their government's data. They have been and will conticon to be quiet is a baby lamb watching The Great Grecian Political & Financial Debacle.
Jade Helm starts this week if you care to learn how we would be helped should a civil uprising occur.
We're deep in the rabbit hole here knucks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
-
Gracie is a Goddess. Nuffin' like it, man.
Thank you thank you thank you
don't bogart....
BTW, China's all fixed too, right?
El Vaquero
Phhhtttt.......Man that is some good shit!!
What a pots calling kettle black and stone throwing while living in glass-houses fiesta!
Grees is on first.
Next up Spain and Italy is on deck.
The Euro is finished. It will take time but it is finished.
Yes, but thank goodness no one else in Europe is going to have trouble with their banks being flogged-out broken zombies.
Stop just throwing money at Greece and use that money to invest in Greece. Get your industries to build there, manufacture there, ship to and from their ports, hire their 50+% unemployed youth and train them. Built a EU Silk road through Greece. Work with the Greece government to get control of their tax/revenue/expenditures and do so without changing their culture (but a major tweek to their financial culture). There is much that can be done and Greece will just have to accept the education for a better future. It will take nothing away from their sovereignty, just a little pride adjustment.
'Free trade' implies the lowest cost manufacturer gets the factories. Everyone else gets paper money until the paper money dies. I didn't downvote you.
Largest export from Greece is refined crude oil products and largest import is crude oil and other oil products. Actually Greece has a strategic position in refining oil products and chemicals for the EU with gas and oil from Middle East and Russia. However investments lacking due to political/economic uncertainty and currupt society, as is entire Middle East. Tourism also big but is considered a small entprenurial industry not requiring much investment. Cultural differences also make My Big Fat Greek Nation xenophobic and socialist compared to "the continent"
"There is much that can be done and Greece will just have to accept the education for a better future. It will take nothing away from their sovereignty, just a little pride adjustment."
Never lose an opportunity to moralize and feel superior at no intellectual cost, isn't it?
The Greeks are generally way more educated than the average Americans, for starters. Secondly, the idea of EU investments already has been discussed and implicitely refused by Schäuble, who won't activate the process. A 35 billions fund have been alloted precisely to that, but he won't let go of the money.
Of course the Greeks would be more than happy for investments in their country. They've been clamoring for just that. Would YOU be unhappy about countries injecting money in the USA and providing well-paid jobs for Americans? Who in their right minds would see the smallest problem with that?
The gang is all here.
Hey, they forgot this guy
ICELANDIC MINISTER FOR FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS BJARNI BENEDIKTSSON
well we all know damned well GS took out insurance on that fraud!
EU would blockade them and no one would help them ... Putin isn't really interested in becoming a king pin in an international counterfitting scheme.
Wait till they mix in a bunch of Euros with a Y serial number mixed in with the ones with an X serial number.
The ones with all those Y's is just due to the increase in German tourism, right?
So Greece will now be "the wrong side of the tracks"? My guess is more people get smuggled into the EZ through Greece than have been smuggled through Turkey...whatever it takes to make a drachma here and there will be done.
Greece gone....moar for the rest of the PI(G)S.
Bullshit
The krauts would be loaded up on this debt and bitchibgregardlesss if they were in or not
"It will definitely be better off in the long run."
Actually, "In the long run, their chances of survival are zero."
"They're dead, Jim! They're dead!" - Dr. McCoy
These dicks came together today to talk, and told us all they are here to talk.
Wow, my popcorn is worth more than that I'm sure...
One big room, full of bad bitches...
And one bitch, Greece, is a little bit pregnant. You can be a little bit preggers, can't you? (Hint: Only in Euroland.)
Umm, you might want to read up on how the lack of medical supplies and funding has indeed caused a MAJOR spike in AIDS in Greece the past couple years. You joke, but the reality is, your joke is already reality.
http://www.health24.com/Medical/HIV-AIDS/News/Greeces-debt-crisis-is-kil...
In that article among other things, showcases there was a 200 percent spike in AIDS cases.
"Greece is an example of perhaps the worst case of austerity leading to public health disasters ..."
Total Bull Sh.t!!
It's not "austerity" it's Socialism at its "best"
YOU CANNOT HAVE SOCIALSIM UNLESS YOU HAVE A BANK.
SOCIALISM WITHOUT A BANK IS CALLED COMMIUNISM....AND YOU AINT GETTING THAT IN GREECE.
So....since everyone here AND IN EUROPE are all on board "States with No Banks"....GUESS WHAT!
NO STATE EITHER.
NINTEY PERCENT UNEMPLOYMENT NEXT!
move along...
THIS IS CALLED PRACTICALITY AND IS NOT OPEN TO DEBATE....
mmmmmmkay Children?
mmmmkay?
If "EUROPA" fails in this its "Handjobs for Crack."
THE FUCKING ECB IS A BANKER'S BANK...."destroy the Country...destroy the Bank. Destroy the Bank...destroy the Country."
THE END.
If the whole system seizes up THE NEXT PROBLEM WILL BE MILAN.
THEY ARE VERY, VERY, VERY RICH.
If that Bourse fails to open "Next up the Spanish Exchange" etc.
God help the place if the German DAX fails to open. ALL EXCHANGES ON THE CONTINENT WILL BE CLOSED.
Good luck "defaulting to London" if that happens. There is NO WAY London could handle such a liquidation.
"If the whole system seizes up THE NEXT PROBLEM WILL BE MILAN.
THEY ARE VERY, VERY, VERY RICH.
If that Bourse fails to open "Next up the Spanish Exchange" etc.
God help the place if the German DAX fails to open. ALL EXCHANGES ON THE CONTINENT WILL BE CLOSED.
Good luck "defaulting to London" if that happens. There is NO WAY London could handle such a liquidation. "
I disagree.
The TBTF Banksters would fucking love flushing a real liquidation of the EU through the desks of The City.
London will punch tickets all fucking day and night while skimming the cream off the top and outright thieving the best assets for themselves via dark pools/offshore/subsidiaries/etc.
I don't think a lack of "medicine" is the root cause in the spike in AIDS there bubbie.
I thought the goats were the ones with the problem over there...
The money masters just want to put on a "Really Big Show" so everyone will gasp in fear over any change to their monopoly game.
Nothing will work besides "their" plan for "your" future, right?
This is not complicated dude.
Read up on the Knickerbocker Crisis and the creation of the Fed.
In 1906 ALL THE BANKS ON WALL STREET WERE INSOLVENT.
JP Morgan BULLIED them into an office and said "OPEN UP YOUR LOAN BOOKS OR YOURE ALL DEAD."
And indeed they did...some of the Banks being VERY solvent actually!
"So JP bought up all the good assets for next to nothing for his Bank and left everyone else to twist in the wind."
END OF CRISIS.
That is all the United States Federal Reserve in fact does.
"Panic on Wall Street? NO FUCKING PROBLEM. SHOW US YOUR FUCKING LOAN BOOK AND WE'LL DO THE CHERRY PICKING."
The Federal Government bought hundreds of BILLIONS in assets for mere MILLIONS.
Wall Street is much more reticent in lending indeed.
"Hank Paulson was the Biggest Pool Shark of all."
Needless to say the Federal Government has now unloaded the bulk of its book for a HUGE premium!
The Federal Deficit has come WAY WAY WAY FUCKING DOWN as a consequence.
It is interesting to note of course "there has been ZERO recovery" though.
Everyone here however is about to witness "a world Sans Hank Paulson" in the form of Europa in my view.
We'll find out on Monday.
My guess will be "limit down in Europe"...meaning 10-15%..."and then the exchanges start to close again...
Way to go Schauble. Don't flush your country's money down the rat hole. 5 years and they haven't done one thing to reform. This is a perfect idea. Make them prove they're going to chance. Brilliant.
5 minutes would be too long
Was there a subtle white supremacy reference in there? High standards of living is a code to live by, not an inherent property of race.
Let's not forget that white people are also the primary cause of the history-making monstrosity that is the current global economy.
"Let's not forget that white people are also the primary cause of the history-making monstrosity that is the current global economy." Shalom! Whites are just along for the ride, like everyone else.
Y'all sing with me, ya'hear now!
"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord ....."
Golden Dawn could fix it, but the Jews that run Greece jailed them.
LOL
German Humaitarian Actions:
New Leopard2 A7+'s in Syntagma Square
How about "Unfuck Greece" ?
One and Only,
You're right about most things.
But a small point:
They are about as white as they are European.
Why did Nudelman visit Tsipras and what was implied simply by the meeintg taking place?
guns and butter, you prick - never even think about leaving NATO
Bingo..young guy with family I presume...shits his pants three times daily...that is the expression I saw when he listened to Nigel Farage, a guy shitting his pants...so long Tsipras
Of course you can't blame him entirely. The Greek people have to deep six the idea of rejecting the third bailout terms but staying in the EU. The paradox creates a side exit for political cowards.
Fuck the EU...
Yes, that's what I'm wondering William. And Obama's telephone call to Merkel earlier this week.
DavidC
Tell me if I'm wrong but I thought countries CANNOT be chucked out and that they can leave if they want to but it takes two years. I'm also intrigued by this because the LAST thing Washington wants is Greece out of the Eurozone and into the Russian umbrella with the potential impact on NATO.
Interesting times.
DavidC
I am sure whatever rules the Eurocrats have set up will be followed by them every bit as religiously as the US Constitution is followed by the rulers of the USSA.
Just spit ballin here but what if Germany already knows the EU is toast and sees or desires itself as a future Russian partner? Perhaps even has had talks concerning this eventuality with Putin? Could this explain it's stance with Greece? Maybe the whole shit show is nothing but a kabuki dance for public consumption and a German/Russian deal that effectively breaks up NATO and isolates the US from further european (Ukraine) warmongering has been hatched/agreed to? Would any of these possibilities explain the stance of Germany and it's efforts to get Greece to exit?
Recall how the last Russian/German 'deal' (Stalin/Hitler) worked out for both parties and you'll understand why neither will ever do another alliance.
A simpler explanation: stop throwing good money after bad. When you know you won't get your initial loan back, quit loaning more funds to the same person. Its really that simple for both countries and individuals.
I don't think central bankers are willing to let Greece default due to the domino effect it will cause on the rest of Europe. Yes, it would be better for them to restructure their economy but it's not going to happen. There is alot more money to be lost if Greece leaves the Euro than the 300 billion owed...
Fuckin' white people!
Things may not be so simple if the germans dictate the currency issuance. Since antiquity the tyrants have used a second rate "money" to rob populations of their wealth. It's known as "Bad money drives out good" and noted by Aristophanes in his play The Frogs, which dates from around the 5th century BC.
We have reports from inside the old coins and notes issuers in Holargos, Athens, Geeece that the machines are printing full power a new currency, not by the greek state but something like an IOU or second rate currency for a german firm, let's call it greuro.
God help the people of Greece! They're being genocided.
Man proposes Schauble disposes
Scheuble should have his own disappointing, tuba sound effect that plays every time he says anything.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
Price is wrong?
They really are making a show of it all. All we can KNOW is that whatever they are saying publicly or is showing up in the news is a load of crap. Just lies and more lies. They tell so many lies from all sides that nobody can know what is happening and they can always point to at least something that was said to support whatever did just "happen" to occurr. Absurd theater for the masses as they continue to move along with whatever they have planned for us "useless eaters". NON linear disinformation is how they operate. http://www.thetruthaboutthelaw.com/non-linear-disinformation-makes-it-im...
Every word out of their mouths is a lie...that's the only truth there is.
Tell him to pound sand. It don't take 5 freaking years, it only takes a day.
He's trying to milk you dry and still kick you out.
So now its down to food terrorism, acting like he's going to starve you. Leave and be able to feed yourselves.
It is coming to the USA shortly, read numerous testimonies about the Russians now in America to help grab guns enforce Martial Law! http://revelation12.ca
They could also build a barbwire fence around it with guardtowers to keep others out who would otherwise try to steal the humanitarian aid being doled out to the Greeks.
See how the lenders do it? They NEVER want the customer to leave, no matter how big a dead-beat they are. It is always better to show an account receivable than a lost client.
"Ok, you can exit, but conditionally, and you have to use our financial system for 5 years (called Humanitarian Support), then after we hyperinflate the shit out of you for a few years, you'll cry to come back."
Humanitarian Support? LMAO. Isn't that the playbook from invading Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Ukraine, etc... because of the "humanitarian support needed"?
Always a one-sided deal when dealing with bankers. Greece, for its own good, needs to leave and that will only be achieved through revolution by the people.
That's because their so good at convincing their auditors that their debt investments are fully-recoverable. As soon as the first one declares bankruptcy, the gig is up and bank capital will disappear.
exactly...debt serfs r their liife's blood...
and yet, the people allow their bitch made politicians to condemn them to further humiliation and suffering...
i have no empathy for those who will not stirke out at their oppressors - internal or otherwise....
death to the MoneyChangers.......
Somebody pass me the popcorn, this is getting good. Again, no Putin pic?
"Well, I guess it ain't easy doin' nothing at all. But hey man a free ride doesn't come along, every day. I won't pay, I won't pay, no way."
Why Don't You Get a Job, The Offspring
Greece is in Grexit now. They will default and will be taken over by a "temporary" military junta before Jan '16. Thats how all of the debt problems worked out in Latin America, and the present day Greeks are very close in mind and spirit.
The only difference in the 70's and 80's is that the Latin's borrowed $$ from US banks desperate to recycle petro dollars. Greeks have been borrowing Euro from the EU banks because it could.
Wish I could disagree, but they are at a complete impasse politically.
Will be fun to see how the banksters spin the "not in default" meme when some colonel is telling them to shove it.
I would lean toward a puppet colonel of the west, like Operation Ajax;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
It's pretty simple. The German's don't want to QE for the broke EU southern countries while they await at snail speed the return of their Gold. To set off a Euro devaluation before their bullion is back would mean a derivative collapse that would spread to the US. They realize that then, all the rules change and they will never see another shiny ounce repatriated ever again. The irony is, with a Grexit the same might happen anyway. Thus the frustration of the Germans continues.
Sisyphean.
I'm in agreement with victoria nuland on one point- fuck the eu. However... Fuck victoria nuland and her criminal zionazi masters, too.
As Mr. Schauble cannot force another country out of the Euro...the proposal is just ridiculous.
This is getting hilarious...bet the insiders are making a fucking fotune on the volatility...
"Somehow we doubt global stocks expected this outcome when they soared on Friday..."
Brainless algos are programmed to serve their programmers... and those programmers don't give a shite about "filthy carbon units" like Mr. and Mrs. Joe Sixpack.
Schauble - yet another European gauleiter
The problem with the EU is that they are all different countries, different people, different languages and have different histories. It is a failed idea to start with. Go back to reality European people. Don't let the bureaucrats tell you how to live.
You know, in a lot of ways the US is little different from the EU ("different countries, different people, different languages and ... different histories").
Other than the toilet paper we wipe our asses with, the junk food offered on every corner, and the crap that is fed us on TeeVee, I really have VERY VERY little in common with the bible-thumping inbreds that populate huge swaths of this country. (My aunt used to say that the problem with those small towns is "When there just aren't enough different last names in the phone book, look what happens!")
Likewise, I have very little in common with the arrogant and privileged bankers and politicos that live cowering in their sheet-rock palaces in the Gated Ghettos that litter our landscape.
I find a life spent ice fishing in winter and hiding from swarms of black flies in the summer (livin' the Wisconsin-Michigan-Minnesota lifestyle) or being a "Cheesehead" to be almost as foreign as that "lived" by the bible-thumpers. The sober sterness of New Englanders and the history they "feel" is, to me, some fairy tale froma textbook from elementary school, nothing more. Old Glory ("The National Rag") doesn't really mean anything more to me than something that flies over lots of unsold new cars and gas stations near the Interstate, and probably in front of the bible-thumper "campuses." Oh yea, you see it on the shoulders of uniformed "keepers of the peace."
To imply that Mainers, Mississippians, Mendocinans (from Mendocino County, California), and Menominee and Ojibwas from Wisconsin have much in common is quite a stretch, to say the least.
It won't be long before the US flies apart; if you listen carefully you can hear the rotting piers beneath the entire Red-White-and-Blue Ediface creaking, twisting and cracking, and breaking, just like the whole "European Project" appears headed to a pile of (volatile) match sticks. Papering over the problems with digital dollar bills (or digital Euros) will only appear to work for so long.
The melting pot no longer melts.
It never really did, anyway. Look at the Russian J***** immigrants that Jacob Schiff helped out before he helped fund the Bolshevik Revolution. They mostly stayed right in New York City. Some went to Kalifornia to run the propaganda mill. If only whites were as cohesive, they wouldn't be as likely to be debt slaves. As far as bible thumpers go (other post, I know), they're far less likely to be debt slaves to New York City. The banksters have used fiat to undermine the church(honesty) in many, many, many ways.
"The melting pot no longer melts. "
To a large extent the 'melting pot' construct did work. For a time.
While the continent could be 'divested' from the native 'savages' and the vast resources plundered there was plenty. Everyone melted into the some aspect of another of expopriationist.
When the 'free for the claiming' land/resources were all accounted for the temperature melting pot was turned up to try and formalize a federalist construct aka 'Civil War', Unionism, etc..
This continued until the banksters installed and codified control over the federalist political institutions for extracting value from the now fully legally 'owned' lands which now constitute the U.S.A. via fraudulently 'collateralized' federal deficit spending and socialized usury/taxes, etc.
The melting pot was turned all the way up in the neo-liberal/'civil rights'/socialism era -which is peaking presently with the push for 'gay marriage', compulsory diversity/affirmative action, open borders, etc.
This present phase resembles the catastrophic failure of an abused and overburdened/overheated melting pot. Way too much incompatible and material is trying to be processed into a coherent and strong alloy. Not only is the brew not forming a material of uniform strength and upon which to build the basis of economic and social cohesion upon which institutional and cultural structures intended by this abuse of the melting pot; far worse: the pot is itself degrading and meling down at the bottom and spilliing the incompatible mixture onto the ground.
The Melting Pot has been broken by the abusing elitists and parasites that have seized control of the political and educational institutions. The melting pot has failed under ridiculous and excessive demands.
Operator error! The melting Pot itself has melted down resulting in an economic and social disaster: a Cultural China Syndrome of incompatible economic and cultural failures as unstable, irreparable, and toxic as Chernobyl or Fukushima...
To upWising, you may not have lots in common with your US neighbors. It is my understanding nobody, in the USA, has lots in common with anyone else from these same USA.
But don't confuse a deeply divided society like yours with the cultural differences within the EU, which is just some different countries thrown together with NO WAY to communicate with each other. There is not even a common EU newspaper, radio or TV channel, whereas you have US media that cover the whole of the USA.
What I mean - I am from the EU - is that we don't hate each other, have nothing against each other and would me more than happy to communicate and share, only we're discouraged from trying. So we're resorting more and more to our own means, thanks particularly to the Internet, with plenty of us translating for free so everyone can understand the news from say, Spain, Italy, France, the UK, Greece, Hungary, etc. In general, we get along very well - when we have a chance to know each other. Which our EU powers seriously don't want, because the lack of communication allows them to lie to each country about the other countries and reign over a de facto fractured society.
So we keep translating and translating to reach out to one another.
Well, egh, we do have something in common (except GB), we all have been occupied by ... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafaW1uLE-4
Get ready for more Orwellian use of language. Greece isn't being ejected from the EU, they're taking a time out. Those bonds aren't in default, there's just a moratorium on scheduled payments. No problems in derivative-land either, the ISDA would let us know if there were.
I'd be interested in seeing an historical timeline of the Greek debt growth, the promises made along the way, and a description of the misses (and successes if any).
I did find this article :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis
which contains some interesting information such as;
- "Greece is, as a percentage of GDP, the second-biggest defense spender[29] in NATO, the highest being the United States, according to NATO statistics."
-"It is estimated that the amount of tax evasion by Greeks stored in Swiss banks is around 80 billion EUR and a tax treaty to address this issue is in negotiation between the Greek and Swiss government."
Perhaps Greece needs FATCA.
This is the beginning of the end of NATO and the Germans will do everything to make it happen. They want to be the next free European great power and they know their future is more to the east than with the west. Of course they will still sell luxury cars to everyone who pays for them.
Greece can't be kicked out of the Euro, even not temporarily. There is no legal basis for that, in what world does Schaeuble live? Germany should just do the rationale here and exit the Euro.
Treatyy or not, of course they can. Ecb doesnt have to even lift a finger, come tuesday or wednesday the banks will not have a penny and then Greece has no choice but to pull out and start printing IOUs.
EU OFFICIAL: SUSPENDING GREECE FROM EURO IS LEGALLY UNFEASIBLE
The mark would skyrocket in value. Germany likes putting the other countries in pain so their currency stays weaker.
It's amazing just how many five year periods they can come up with to stall (kick the can). Just means "not on my watch." Let the next guy deal with it, even though it will be a much bigger problem then.
But, comrade, get with the program(s);
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plan
Take it and go.
Greece should have kept their old drachmas in their vault like German and Dutch did. Every intelligent person know that the Euro cannot survive without the same debt and the same fiscality. It was not made to survive... but to bring something else.
One thing is for sure : If Schauble and Mutti stay on this line its the end of the EURO.
We are heading for a Guelph Ghibelline type financial war; north vs south.
Is it fair to ask if Schauble is going slightly off script?
or does someone like planting fake stories?
Having a monetary union on one leg without fiscal discipline, contrary to 2000 years of money printing experience; where he who prints is responsible for expenditures AND receipts (taxes etc.); --the basis of all past power structures-- is asking for BIG TROUBLE.
The EU went from six to twenty eight (19 in EZ) and forgot this simple rule.
How fucked up can you get on a one legged stool?
Maybe Schauble should answer that first.
If he doesn't he is a predator and deserves what will now unfurl.
You cannot be king money guzzler and expect others to like being fucked both ways with nothing to say.
"Tomorrow, Italy is going to demand that Germany hammers out an agreement with Greece, our datablog editor, Alberto Nardelli, reports.
Italian prime minister Matteo Renzi has had enough, Alberto understands. It’s time to stop humiliating Greece, and end this crisis.
Tomorrow, at the summit of eurozone leaders, Renzi will insist that chancellor Angela Merkel finds an agreement, for the good of the European Union.
— Alberto Nardelli (@AlbertoNardelli) July 11, 2015 Hearing Italy to tell Germany: "enough is enough" - we need to stop humiliating Greece, and find a deal and common ground for good of EU
This crisis just gets more, and more, and more serious. And compelling."
Remember that Schauble is in a wheelchair. Short people have a lot of problems because they think other people are laughing at them behind their short backs because they are short. They are right. So the short people tend to overcompensate on everything (like Stallone playing Rocky). Same with cripples. End of Pop-Psych Lesson #23 "Hey, Shorty."
But is she sure?
Indispensable.
More bullshit, they'll do anything to avoid the obvious DEFAULT which will, quite rightly, put the fucking lot of them on queer street.
There must be some serious "un-winding" or "off loading" for Germany to suggest dragging it out for 5 years.
Amazing, they only mention the DEBT and forget any proof or progress of Greece fixing its' broken and corrupt system.
You want to know what the log-jam here is to Grexit?
Why did the politicians in Athens, vote complete 'confidence' in Tsipras, against democractic mandate, and against the people's will and intent?
A grexit means the politicians may have to take a big paycut.
eh? ... we can't have that!
And this, I think, is why they're still wanting to negotiate some way to still remain 'in'.
And it's also why after the referendum, the EU was saying in paraphrase:
"We don't know why the hell they still want to talk to us! What basis is there for such a conversation or negotiation to be had"?
Mr. Schauble, a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down.
Greece grow some balls and burn the banks, every one of them with the managers in them.
Start the shitstorm and break away from the Nazi's in the eu.
Have the courage to start over with a clean slate and fuck the rest of the eu!
What - no expulsion to a leper colony?!?
Holy poop buttons!
I never thought I'd be appreciative of Schüable
Listen I got an idea. Humanitarian Aid.
A New Mercedes for Everybody!
A reasonable plan from the Germans.
The OXI voters would be onside.
Will the leftist/kleptocrats from Greek government be onside?
Doubt it :)
If Greece has a 5 year EZ time-out, they'll never return, but will remain an EU member for trade etc. hhhmm, sounds like a good option to me.
During that period they will still need finc support etc and the only people likely to give it are Russia & China possibly thru BRICS bank.
Why doesn't Greece, Portugal, Spain, et al head the train off at the pass and file a class-action suit against the banksters who made all this ppossible? Perhaps Iceland could be called in as a character witness?
Greece is investigating criminal charges against Goldman Sacks (pun intended).
Spain has gone full police state:
It has passed laws forbidding dissent and 'unauthorized' photography of police, unauthorized demonstrations. These laws also extend to use of social media. The gov't is terrified of anti-austerity protests.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150705/18174231556/spain-government-...
The flow on events is increasing rapidly.
I assure you, 5 years will be longest ASS FUCKING you can imagine!
And what comes after this 'timeout', when Greece has cooled off? "Ok it's been 5 years, now give us everything or we'll kick you out for real this time!"
Once again the elite are making a huge mistake. I say that because any other country can clearly see what's going to happen so I would suggest to Greece not give the fucking criminals at the EU the choice of kicking you out, but rather tell them eat shit fuck off and die, we're outta here now! Not to mention, if you see this shit headed your way I think people are waking up and polishing the guillotine blades. Just what till Obama's stupid bitch ass gets all this tpp ramed up our asses and finishes gutting the US. Fuck these people raw!
The more I think about a 'timeout', the more it pisses me off. Falls right in line with no defaults, no recessions(and certainly no depressions), no bankruptcies, no stock crashes, nothing but green fields (dont check 6' below) from here on out. I really have a hard time not seeing all this, combined with other shit, ripping this planet apart in a nuclear firestorm.
if they dont privatize the Olive oil business, it wont be too bad....
Zero Hedge is boss + 1,000,000.
they want the gold
Greece holds 112 tons of gold.
You bet they want it.