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Early Market Indications: Bitcoin Soars To 2015 Highs, Stocks Tumble
Yesterday, when it was becoming increasingly clear that Germany has had it with Greece - as was confirmed moments ago when the Eurogroup failed to reach a deal despite the "absolutely final" ultimatum it itself had imposed on Greece, we made a quick observation:
Bitcoin may be cheap here
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) July 11, 2015
Since then bitcoin has soared by 5%
... and is now at its highest price in 2015:
Why not gold? Because between the BIS endless selling of paper gold - hi Benoit Gilson - and Citi and JPM's relentless pounding of physical via record notionals of derivatives, not to mention China's liquidation selling, gold will likely tumble here just to give the illusion that central banks still have some control, which would mean that various mints are again about to run out of gold. It also means that courtesy of constant price suppression as a policy tool, the precious metal continues to trade at a huge discount to physical value.
What are other markets looking like right now? We won't know for a while until USDJPY opens, which as the central banks know is how you manipulate the E-mini, in a few hours, and certainly not until ES opens in 7 hours, but thanks to UK spread bettors things are not looking good right now.
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Pump it back over 1 grrr and then dump it again?
grabbed some more yesterday at $299 :)
Bitcoin has some big questions hanging over its head, but considering its reaction to smaller crises that have taken place, a small allocation to bitcoin is logical. If bitcoin makes small moves in response to small crisis what will be its reaction when the big one hits.
Absolute assertions, like those who say that the correct allocation to precious metals is zero, should be treated with skepticism particularly when the advice is coming from those who don’t own the asset and just want to affirm their position. Even though I have reservations about Bitcoin, zero exposure considering its positive reaction to crisis, doesn’t make sense.
And 2015 high is less than a third of the all time high for bitcoin?
Pull up a long term chart. It moves in waves.
If it follows the same pattern as the past, it should move to $2,500-$3,500, than pull back to $500-$750
It has "bubble exploded" multi times by 1000%, then crashed back 50-75%, but keeps stair steping higher.
Chuck E Cheese tokens now worth more than Dollars... Good Night USA
Shit, I guess my kids are rich then. Time to steal their tokens!
Plastic pennies are worth more than a penny.
Because, so far, they have no way to manipulate Bitcoin. Gold should be doing the same thing but is still being capped by the Cartel. Perhaps Bitcoin is the new Gold as the Canary in the Coalmine? On the other hand, in the endgame, Central banks and Governments can revalue Gold so that their Balance Sheets well, balance. And I don't think there are many Bitcoins on their Balance Sheets?
Gold and silver manipulation will eventually fail but your right bitcoin is doing what PM's should be doing. A point that should not be ignored.
Bitcoin is doing what PM's should be doing, because Bitcoin poses no threat. It can be easily co-opted and maneouvered, just like the masses who will inevitably jump on board. Intelligence can just sit back and wait to see when and how the swarm begins to take shape and take action from there.
Certainly a possibility I can't discount. That's why I advocate a small allocation. We don't fully know the vulnerabilities yet.
Because they would actually have to WORK to make them and be as dismayed as anyone that mines them at how fucking hard it is to make them.
With the improvements in CPU ASIC designs that are freely available it will completely renovate everything in term of governance, governments, and how economies actually work. All fully transparent.
Now where it get interesting is when the clodhoppers running economies today understand they can back their PM's into a crypto to assign a market value then and only then will anyone see the value of their PM's. Additional if looking at a commodities based international trade system then it would be advisable for commodity producers to produce their own crypto currency to trade their commodity as a crypto currency to formulate a trade token.
e.g. Bananas. Brazil and Jamacia produce lots of Banana's for the world market. The Banana cartel renders 'banana coins' using the open source of the BTC base to match their production of Banana's to the crypto being produced and the exchange rate pair is tied back to BTC to accomodate a fair trade market practice as the "BananaCoin" is exchanged directly to the value of BTC. In programming it's called weighing a metric in an array.
And anyone else that produces Banana's can join the existing network of 'BananaCoin' to sell their commodity. Or whatever commodity is there. Lumber, silver (LiteCoin), gold (BTC), Platnium (DRKCoin last I heard), oil, widgets, whatever. As long as the amount of coin matches the supply of whatever, which can be programmed easily. The thing is the fiat doesn't availability or supply, but a crypto coin can provide supply, trade/swap value against other commodities based on a metric without the horse shit of people getting in the way. Eventually a nice steady economy based on trade NEED, rather than the warehousing horseshit that only produces loss and has killed more industries that can be counted.
This is how an entire planet gets migrated to a single currency, that isn't a currency, it's an anchor to facilitate commodities in trade instead of the usual middle men arbitrage that has put everyone on the planet in the hole. It's the start of the equivalent of sharing fairly. Once BTC is in place, it is recommended that most commodity producing nations look at their various sectors and make a coin. LobsterCoin, LumberCoin, EducationCoin, ProgrammerCoin, etc. Doesn't matter. BTC is a single horse that can pull them all and help manage the true value of trade/swap of the commodity in a completely transparent manner and level the playing field with nice agnostic math. Pretty sure most countries have math departments, business groups and computer science groups to figure out how to implement their own crypto coin against a commodity against the BTC to cross trade a commodity for a commodity using BTC as the pinon.
We still don't know if BTC will be the one. It still has some issues, transaction time is one, and there are others. The 61.8 percent Litecoin crash was a good opportunity to get into that coin, but it is rallying quickly. There are now a number of proof of stake coins that are still very cheap that hold some promise. Unlike Bitcoin and Litecoin they don't require a huge army of miners to support them, but rather the wallet does it all, and also rewards you with more coins based upon your stake. 2 coins that I've been accumulating are PHS and ZEIT as they are so cheap you can get a decent percent of the entire market cap for a few Bitcoins. I also like FLO, Florin coin because it is going to be used to permanently circumvent the shutting down of torrent sites by creating an uncensorable peer to peer library
This latest surge in buying is mainly out of China which accounts for nearly 70% of all volume
We are still at the very early stages of this thing. Very exciting times.
The Bitcoin Channel
Well I think bitcoin already is the one.
And when governments around the world dump cash for e-currency, you can bet it won't be Bitcoin. That will be the nail in the coffin. Bitcoins are nothing more than watts consumed to make a shared ledger entry.
Grow a brain you moron.
Great rebuttal, genius.
If anyone wants to know why XBT is pumping, look no farther than the compulsive gamblers in China. Chinese equities in the shitter, so they're going to hump Bitcoin once again.
Can they run naked shorts on BitCoin? Can they run BitCoin ETFs?
In theory - yes, they can, but in practise certain characteristics of Bitcoin make it difficult.
First, taking delivery in Bitcoin is infinitely easier than doing so with gold. In fact, it is encouraged that you take "your" bitcoins from custodial account directly into your own possession. Otherwise you're risking getting Goxed (a.k.a. Corzined). Therefore, the chasm between bitcoin and its derivative is easy to cross.
Second, settlement and clearing in old-fashion industry, where ETFs live, is an expensive and error-prone operation. Transactions move over legacy networks with friction, whereas the bitcoin network itself provides means of clearing and settlement without external oversight and tedious reconciliation. This characteristic is the very reason Blythe Masters jumped on the "digital ledger" bandwagon (watch her patethic linguistic tricks trying to avoid word "bitcoin").
Third, with bitcoin you can actually run a computationally sound proof of resources. Thus, anyone running Bitcoin ETF would be subject to scrunity and operating under fractional bitcoin reserve would have been revealed in no time.
So, to summarize, one can do naked shorts in Bitcoin or run BTC ETF, but doind so would be monumentally dumb idea.
A lot of shady Wall St tricks don't work with bitcoin, because the "real asset" can be transfered worldwide within an hour or less, no excuse - in contrast to stocks where the normal clearing takes days and the naked short sellers can just fail to deliver in addition without legal consequences. There is a whole set of shell games which can be played with paper, but not with bitcoin.
The only way to play tricks is to establish bitcoin derivatives and manipulate the price over them, but I doubt that many investors will hold an IOU, when you can get the control over a bitcoin in the blockchain easily, and that much faster and cheaper.
Another alternative would be establishing a major bitcoin exchange on Wall St which controls most of the volume, but there are already tens, if not hundreds of bitcoin exchanges around the world and technology allows to trade them even p2p without any middleman. In addition there are decentralized bitcoin exchanges in the works, which can't be controlled by an owner or a small interest group.
Bitcoin is a monetary revolution, you must throw most of your conventional thinking of traditional finance over board completely.
But more than 20x higher than the start of 2013.
Don't Buy Bitcoin. It's Going To Crash!!! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
So still pissed off you bought bitcoin far above it's current price and haven't been able to dump it yet?
Standard Disclaimer: That background noise you hear is the monotonic bleat of the "pump and dump"...
Hey I'm a bitcoin skeptic as outlined here, but am humble enough to know that I don't know everything nor what the future holds. I started buying very small amounts with this purchase program at around 200. I'm not going to ignore Bitcoin's reactions to small monetary crises (Russia Greece Cyprus), when I believe we are going to have an unprecidented world-wide crisis in the not to distant future. To each thier own, but I think a small allocation makes sense, no reason to get your panties in a bunch. If it goes up, fine, if not, I am willing to lose my investment.
Captain, where did yo buy bitcoin? You can't buy it in the US without paying a huge fee and dealing with the sketchiest playes ever. So how exactly did you purchase bitcoin?
www.coinbase.com. 1% fee and they give you a 5 dollar activation bonus. Essentially break even on your first 500 invested, plus significant referral bonuses. I felt most comfortable with their security and ‘vault’ storage. Certainly lower premium than PM purchase, and I have made many of them.
Very easy process, though there are some security hoops, but they are worth it for me.
Using any exchange, web wallet or vault, is the same as using bank to hold your gold.... it introduces counter party risk that can be avoided.
For PM's security and storage costs are what it costs to avoid that counter party risk.
For Bitcoin, you can use self educataion and the many tutorials to learn how to hold your own funds. Either on a local wallet - frequently on your phone - or for better security, offline in 'cold storage'. The simplest cold storage is a paper wallet... and there are hardware solutions too.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cold_storage
Once you understand the various techniques, it becomes trivial to secure Bitcoin. Normaly, larger balances held in multiple cold storage wallets, with a small amount held on your phone for ordinary usage.
I trade on many exchanges:
Cryptsy
BTC-E
Bitfinex
These are the my main 3. Due to the risk of them being shuttered I keep all coins downloaded to their respective wallets when not being actively traded. Imagine being able to take the money in your futures account and keep it in your mattress every night. Most of the transaction costs are so low that it is very cheap to do: .001 percent. bitfinex now allows margin trading and shorting in the trading account. This operates like a ticket in the old bucket shops having a liquidation price, so you cannot lose more than you have bet. If you only deposit BTC then Fincen and KYC rules don't apply.
The Bitcoin Channel
I'm with the other commenter on paper wallet or cold storage security, the latter only requires the specific private key which the balance is stored. Bitcoin is powerful to those with the foresight and wisdom to learn and use it. Quite addictive, really.
Troll, or knowledgeless fool
It ain't none of your snooping business to know where I got mine, but I had no problem in getting it through an exchange. Just start researching and learn which ones are worthy of trust before you entrust your fiat.
Cue the ZH Flat Earth Society:
B,B,B,But it's a Ponzi Scheme Tulip Bulb controlled by the NSA , and the government will shut down the power grid and the internet to stop bitcoin and it's controlled by the CIA and the banks it's worth nothing without electricity plus I cannot hold it in my hand so it's worth zero you pump and dumpers scammers that bitcoin is a SCAM!!!!!
Bitcoin prices are pointing directly at the problem with Euro and the EU will blithely continue to ignore it. They are playing Russian roulette complete with Russians. They are the new aristocracy, but they should read some French history about Robespierre and the revolution.......
Concur.
When BTC was stagnant in the low 200s and this Greece turd of a crisis became big news in the mainstream again, I bought a little. I'll sell it once I'm able to cash out and buy that antique table I want. Better to have an old handmade table than BTC anyway.
Enjoy flipping your table after BTC hits double the price you cashed out at
Paging Fonestar...will Mr. Fonestar pick up the white courtesy phone please...
No not the red phone, the white phone...
"All euro gold belong to IMF now.
Thanks for playing/Bon apetit!
Bitcoin overrated/overvalued. Invest in other crypto coins. For example, Mintcoin is 30x faster, energy efficient, etc. Superior technology.
Fuck Off. Just another shitty Alt-Coin soon to bite the dust like the rest.
Platinum is superior to gold (scarcity, counterfeiting) too, but gold is tradition, culture ... so is bitcoin.
Grab those bitcoins there, Stacker (though I figure they'd be hard to stack)! Thar just leaves more gold and silver for the rest of us...
When fiat money dies, use crypto-currency?
No thank you, I'll keep stacking.
Bitcoin is great if you want to move your savings around the world, but I would NEVER hold it in BTC form for very long. You need to hold your wealth in hard assets once you have found a financially safe country to live in.
Try to diversify your holdings. That means keeping a (small) allocation of your savings in BTC, some in gold, some in silver, some in productive land, some in shares.... very little in any bank, and a little bit in your local national fiat (cash) under the mattress.
The percentages of each of these allocations is an interesting discussion, but should simply reflect your own risk appetite.
"You need to hold your wealth in hard assets once you have found a financially safe country to live in."
Good luck finding that.
Just imagine the global assets that would flow to any "financially safe country" if one could be found.
Europe can Say Uncle here...
More like: When fiat dies, protect your money in crypto/precious metals.
Crypto was never meant to replace cash, government notes, or gold, but to add to the whole financial system an upgrade in security, decentralization, and overall technological advancement.
Anyone with an hour of time and a willingness to learn more about bitcoin would benefit greatly from this video of Andreas Antonopoulos: https://vimeo.com/130761491
Phyisical and paper price of gold and silver being forced apart. Thanks Benoit Gilson!!
This will cause Gold and Silver to drop ........for now. ......somehow, it's become the release valve for Gold Price.....for now. Bitcoin has now doubled off its 52 week low.....not Gold and Silver. .....for now.
Keep stacking Gold or Silver.......for Ever !!
Gold and silver will drop because there is a global margin call in process.
Between China, and the CDS writers on Greek debts, we are talking real money,
trillions of it.
If Shanghai opens down 15%...
well, you could argue "that's starting the trading day off Just Right!"
We will need another glitch soon.
I still say there will be no crash, they will just not open the markets the next day and control prices just like FDR did from his bed with the price of gold.
B! T! C! B! T! C! B! T! C!
I'll sell when it gets to $1K and then buy TWTR and FB.
When are they going to sell naked shorts in bitcoin?
What kind of fool would buy bitcoin? I can hold silver in my hand and it's real.
The most traceable money ever created?
Why do that?
(Quick! Start selling puts in Bitcoin! We know EXACTLY who is buying and selling them now!"...
That is incorrect. I think if you tried to get through an airport metal detector or security checkpoint with gold you would soon find that bitcoin is not traceable at all and PM is.
The Fed kind of fools.
Bitcoin is real, but in numbers which cannot be manipulated. Security of one's Bitcoin wallet or private key is paramount. I can explain it in detail but it will take a good while. I have no problem keeping some BTC with my silver!
https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/620005923667451904
BTChez
Bitcoin? Bah, humbug! Bought some at $550, and look at it now... at almost half of what I paid for it!
Should've bought more gold and silver -- which I got at a great deal: $1750 and $34, respectively, because ZH and its gold experts said in 2012 that QE was going to drive it sky high.
See? Don't trust Bitcoin experts. Trust gold experts. Tons of them here. Now I'm one of them also: "BTFD. It's always a good time to buy gold and silver."
Even long time precious metals experts were saying that QE will send PMs up. It didn't because QE is a fundamentally different liquidity injection than they had seen before. It is more evil than helicopter drops in many ways, and puts nothing into the hands of the middle class.
The thing is most of us alive today have never seen a real market, and we've never experienced honest media reporting. So to us, Bitcoin movements probably look like just any other manipulated market.
I've got both BTC and PMs. They both have the same possible massive upside, they both have the same use-cases in respective financial/economic/civilizational collapses. Bitcoin has advantages over gold though, capital controls and border guards cannot stop me from taking my value to another country.
See you all at a new ATH - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZfg1Gtcg08
If Blythe Masters is at the helm you know they've got your best interests at heart.
$1 - correction 0.10c
$30 - correction $2
$266 - correction $40
$1200 - correction $166
.........
There is a pattern in the price of Bitcoin, the smart ones know how this goes.
It may be volatile but the long term trend is bull and it's growth is normal when you look at new technology and technology related startups
It was only at $166 for like 20 minutes after that fall. The correction level is more like $200-220.
What's amazing is that bitcoin is going up in price at the same time that it is under a spam attack. The network is being attacked (or stress-tested depending on who you talk to), and it's still going up in value relative to fiat. I've actually never felt better about it's future than in the past few weeks. The network has demonstrated incredible resiliency in the face of a massive spam attack, a working fee market is being born to both pay the miners and keep valid transactions moving, and we have most people agreeing on a future fork for larger block sizes. And, all of this while the price is starting to really lift off it's correction lows... Honestly, I couldn't feel more confident about its future.
Good point, $166 was the very brief capitulation low
Will the NYSE have problems with 'new software upgrades' Monday morning?
Not correct analysis here on ZH about precious metals: epic bear trap ambush in place-
http://winteractionables.com/?p=22700
The article clearly says what MOST of us believe. Gold and Silver are "hopelessly" under attack by the central banks, et al. by way of paper products.
If that is the case, then I would submit that the ONLY WAY you and I have to TRULY FIGHT THE CENTRAL BANKS is to BUY PHYSICAL (let me repeat - PHYSICAL) Gold and Silver. Like any fight, you may get hurt, you may get bloodied (some of us are already there), you may even be beaten...but at the end you will have your dignity knowing YOU DID SOMETHING about this financial repression we are in by the nuevo slave masters.
Pretty philosophical for a Sunday, non?
The plan is to have a new world currency soon.
So Euro and Dollar must be destroy
I think we are on the good path...
Do you realize that you are stupid?
Nothing changed in reality, yet now you question the worth of paper/electronic money. You were happy to receive it for your goods and services only yesterday.
The Russians are stupid.
They know America is attacking them yet they still sell their oil and gas for dollars and euros. Putin is a suicidal idiot.
The Chinese are stupid.
The existence of their people depends on selling shit to the U.S. and Europe, yet they rattle their sabers whilst buying real estate in New York? The Chinese are utter morons.
The Iranians are full of shit. "Death to America" whilst negotiating like little puddles with the Americans?
I have to admit.
You're all full of shit.
Ironically Bitcoin could be a tool for permanently ending precious metal price manipulation.
Small units of Bitcoin (satoshis) can be tokenised To represent other assets on the Blockchain (decentralised public ledger).
All gold bars could be represented on this public ledger which would allow for real time auditing of ETF's, funds, banks that deal with storage and trading of these commodities.
This would prevent infinite rehypothecation and thus naked short selling of Gold and other precious metals by adding indisputable time stamped transparency to every single trade.
I write more about it here..
http://www.renegadeinvestor.co.uk/bitcoin-2-0/bitcoin-2-0-blockchain-pla...
I don't understand how bitcoin works. Therefore I won't put any money into it. I generally don't fool around with something if I don't know what it is.
Wendigo, I was the same until I actually bought a little bit and tried it. It is actually very easy once you get used to it, and once you have used it you realise just how powerful this new technology could be,
There are tons of resources out there that will teach you everything about Bitcoin and r/bitcoin are always happy to answer any questions.
I know, how it works.
becdause I know, how it works, I do not possess any.
Pass my regards you US 3-letter agencies, which sponsored BTC.
if you were living in Greece you should have bought some anyway
"Beware the bankers bearing capital controls"
Here is how it works. You link your checking account to coinbase. At coinbase you buy up to 10,000,000 of bitcoin per day. You trade the bitcoin on the coinbase.com exchange. When the bitcoin price goes up more than you paid for it you sell it. The profits either sit in the exchange account so you can buy more bitcoin at a lower price or they can automatically go back into your checking account.
2nd way it can work. You link your coinbase account to your checking account. You buy up to 10,000,000 of bitcoin each day. Then you transfer those ten thousand dollars worth of bitcoin to a computer in tasmania. From the Tasmanian computer you transfer the ten thousand dollars worth of bitcoin to a Hong Kong account and once you have couple hundred grand in both the American and the Hong Kong exchanges you arbitrage using a software program I designed and siphon the daily proceeds back to the Tasmanian computer which then distributes living expenses to any one of 10 cell phones that you picked up at a swap meet. When you are on the UCLA campus you charge 10% commission for getting college kids up and running on bitcoin.
And of course PMs will be monkey hammered and GDX shorted down to $10. We all know how that works...
Sell the fucking rally bitchez
Got's coin?
Prepsite.org: A storm is coming http://www.prepsite.org/2015/07/a-storm-is-coming.html?spref=tw
Mintcoin is better.
Naa, AuroraCoin is so much better.
I am very happy because I bought a shitload of it at $230 before taking off for college for the summer (but I'm actuallly in summer scool at UCLA) in Pittsburgh. Now I never have to go back if I don't want to. But I'm inspired. I promise all ZH'ers that I will carry the bitcoin message throughout the UCLA campus for my entire senior year to show my honest and dutiful appreciation for what I believe in and what I think can really make an important positive difference to the future of the world.
We love you Bitcoin. I bought gold with some of the profits just in case there are some love gold hate bitcoin creatures out there.
Bitcoin is freedom!
Duplicate
Blythe Masters must be very happy now.
http://www.coindesk.com/former-jp-morgan-exec-blythe-masters-swaps-wall-...
Thoroughly enjoy seeing how we still have tons of guys that of course are smarter than the entire market. I actually thought $175ish was coming but either way it is working its way through this long "running correction". Next bull move will be multi-month and could more than triple the ATH.
BTC - $3.2B
Facefuck - $247B
Nope, nothing to see here move along. No opportunity here!
I've avoided BTC banter on ZH because duh everyone here is a genius but I must say I'm becoming shocked people still haven't sniffed around more to see what the Blockchain can do over time.
And why ZH doesn't incorporate tipping and take advantage of microtransactions is beyond my brain capacity.
Btc is the only way to transfer money out of the banking system and for this is priceless (and more and more controlled / manipulated )
Bitcoin network experiencing delays for some transactions according to various sources.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/21169/bitcoin-wallets-changing-fee-structure...
https://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/ltbc-delay
https://www.betcoin.ag/delayed-confirmations-caused-double-spending-risk...