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Tsipras Responds To Eurogroup Proposal, Demands Changes
Facing abject humiliation at the hands of the German finance ministry, Alexis Tsipras arrived at Sunday’s Eurosummit a broken man.
Having gambled his country’s future in the eurozone on a referendum he might well have expected to lose, the Greek PM found himself in a completely untenable position last Monday. Greeks had overwhelming rejected Europe’s latest proposal, sending the country’s economy into a veritable tailspin and leaving Tsipras to contemplate how he might salvage Greece’s place in the EU without betraying Syriza’s constituency.
It was an impossible task.
On Thursday, Tspiras submitted a "revised" version of the proposal Greeks had rejected at the ballot box. The revisions were insignificant to the point of meaninglessness, leaving voters with a feeling of betrayal. The silver lining was supposed to be that by the end of the weekend, Greece place in the eurozone would be secure, a new bailout program would be in place, and Greek banks would be on their way to reopening by mid-week. But Germany had other plans. Indignant at Tsipras’ brazen referendum call and incredulous at the prospect of putting German taxpayers on the hook for a recap of Greece’s banks, German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble (with the implicit blessing of Chancellor Angela Merkel) did not accept Tsipras’ surrender and instead rallied his fellow finance ministers around a new term sheet that outlined a set of draconian measures which Tsipras must now pass through the Greek parliament and enshrine into law by Wednesday or else face a five-year “time-out” (i.e. Grexit) from the EMU.
Likely realizing that Greece faces a euro exit or political upheaval as early as Thursday, Tsipras did his best to fight the good fight on Sunday evening (via Bloomberg):
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and German Chancellor Angela Merkel aired differences during meeting they held in Brussels on Sunday on a possible new aid program, Greek government official said.
Tsipras and Merkel were at odds over issues including the treatment of Greece’s debt and the role of the International Monetary Fund in a possible third rescue package, the official told reporters on the condition of anonymity during a meeting of euro-area leaders
French President Francois Hollande, who also attended the meeting with Tsipras and Merkel, took positions more supportive of the Greek government, according to the official.
European Central Bank President Mario Draghi has played a very supportive role with regard to Greece's lenders during aid discussions, the official said.
A battle is taking place over a document sent to the euro- area leaders on the basis of talks earlier among the region's finance ministers.
Acc to EFE "Greek government agrees to many hard measures but rejects participation of IMF to 3rd program" #Eurosummit #Greece
— Yannis Karagiorgas (@IKaragiorgas) July 12, 2015
Tsipras seeking 4 changes to EG note:
1 No IMF involvement
2 Stronger statement on debt
3 Signal to ECB to maintain ELA
4 Scrap 50bn idea— Tom Nuttall (@tom_nuttall) July 12, 2015
But EU leaders now appear to be just as divided as their respective finance ministers with "Ireland, Italy, France, and Cyprus in favour of reaching a deal with Greece today while others such as Portugal have shifted from negative to neutral," MNI says.
Meanwhile, there are questions about what the new timeline means for Greek banks which were supposed to be cut off from their liquidity lifeline on Monday morning.
As MNI reports, "Germany and its countries of influence want Greece to legislate a series of measures and reforms by Wednesday and then begin discussions for a new lending agreement [but] that would deprive Greece from the European Central Bank's Emergency Liquidity Assistance support." Draghi is apparently still supportive, but has "asked the leaders for a 'clear political commitment for progress of the discussions in order to continue' ELA." In other words, "a strong signal must be given to the ECB on Monday in order to maintain the Emergency Liquidity Assistance," MNI adds.
Tsipras' move to begin purging Syriza of those who are likely to oppose the passage of the new term sheet indicates the PM intends to get the measures through parliament even it means selling his soul and leaving the Greek people in a perpetual state of apathetic disbelief. But Greece has run out of time financially if not yet politically, which means some manner of stopgap measures will be necessary to see the country through the next few weeks. "The total amount of funds available for Greece is an issue. There could be a transition period with a small amount under the existing laws of ESM and funds that were transferred from the EFSF to the ESM when the Greek programme ended on June 30," MNI quotes an unnamed official as saying, adding that "another option speaks of a funding of a few weeks so that the ECB and IMF obligations which total E9 billion including interest payments until the end of August, will be paid and Greece would avoid a default."
In short, Tsipras now faces a political and economic nightmare which will either see him morph into his predecessors marking a tragic abandonment of his party's mandate and complete betrayal of everything Syriza stands for or else simply do as we suggested earlier today and resign.
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What debate the whole wworld is broke and my precious metals getting clobered make sense?
Feeling your pain. The great wrong of our era.
Tsipras, you give all cunts a bad rep.
Because of you, I will never use this beautifully-romantic word ever again, you, piece of boiled goat shit. ;-)
Looney
Tsipras should resign already, let Putin run Greece.
Bringing a country to its knees in abject humiliation always works for the best. Especially when said country has spent years being fucked by corrupt politicians and phenomenally greedy bankers.
Golden Dawn surging in the polls, 3....2.....
Greece should just declare war on Russia (with the full intention of losing said war) and see what kind of support they get from the IMF then.
I bet all of their debts would magically disappear overnight and they would suddenly find they had pallets of $100 bills parachuting from the sky.
Varafoukis said he would rather saw off his arm than agree to the current proposed deal. Aparantly,. he's the only Greek with balls to stand up and be counted.
There will be pain in Spain. It is getting rough now.
Yeah, in the last year, did you notice the increase in hookers around the roundabouts? Some lookers....not the usual toothless Romanian gals. There is great value, I'm going long on this one...
Hillary's campaign will change that for you, Looney.
Thank you, I got worried for a split second. ;-)
Looney
.
The Eurogroup knows that the European Left has no collective economic agency. For them, Syriza staying in power involves the most risk by far.
.
When the margin calls start coming in, and everyone dumps what they can sell first, I expect commodities of all types to deflate, first, because the market will be flooded. That will be the only thing anyone might buy. Paper, not so much.
I am not buying more right now, for this reason. I am not selling either.
Aren't we near the troughs of a great commodities collapse? [said ironically, things are getting worse]
Everyone will howl, I think PMs can go 2008 low, maybe a little lower, and when the air clears, it will take off like a bat out of hell (because the air will be clear, and places to store value will have been destroyed all over the place). That turn around is what I will look for. Then I will buy again. That is how I timed it last time. Gold sank below 800, then turned up a bit, and I got on the elevator. I am not a trader, that is just how I am looking at this. I may buy a little on the way down, but not now.
Cash is king now.
Cash is king now. ...and if you are in sales or can create your own income somehow...NOW is the time to being doing it. I am in sales and am working the entire summer to sell whatever the fuck I can while every other asshole is on vacation. Every ZHer knows the stock market is not the economy. The economy is going down the drain so make hay while the sun is shinning.
Agree. Agree. Agree
Thanks Phil and MsC.
When times are bad, you want your money in the safety of the stock markets.
Which can only go up.
Makes perfect sense. Commodities were in a massive bubble based on (mostly false) Chinese demand and central banks money printing.
Now the bubble is deflating, as it should.
Those who can't see that are in wilful denial.
they voted to kick Greece off of Earth
You have 24 hours to remove your country.
You have 24 hours to remove your country or we'll cube it.
We have cubed your country.
You have 24 hours to remove your cube.
All this over a measly 14 billion? Obviously there is something else going on.
France.
I see London...
I see France...
I see investors with no underpants?
If you have capital and savings all is OK. Laws, structures, society.
Otherwise, the financiers and lenders, and the World is a Vampire - Smashing Pumkins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0
I have an answer. To a lot.
I have already called my governor on it.
Trump is #2. But, what I have is all based on love. They don't get it.
I DO.
I love you.
Billy's underpants
If there were a patriot in Greece, he would be dead by now.
Tspiras would look awfully cool in a Blue Mini. A nice roof rack for his bicycles or Goldman suitcases.
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but given the remarkable set of recent events that have fermented further over the weekend, I think that gold might, just might "surge" five or six dollars on Monday in reaction.
One word: MANIPULATION.
Huh. You don't say.
Tell that to the ardent around here.
nobody "ardent" here. Just some folks who over the years have figured out what vlaue and money are. What production and savings are. What debt is.
May be some folks have been a bit late to party but those who have bought in since the 1990's are not fretting. Nor ardent really. Me too am waiting with cash for the next real gift in PM's
People will flock to dollars before gold, there is way too much dollar denominated debt out their with rising rates on the horizon. No one has gold denominated debts they have to make good on. As a previoulsy commenter said, their will be a squeeze on the dollar as liquidity dries up, commodities including PMs will dip similar to 2008, then as the bad debts get written off or bailed out gold will turn around.
He goes back to the EU Parliament and begs to do whatever they want to get a third bailout and these guys just shove it back on him and say "Greece has no credibility".
What a fucking loser. He's got nothing left.
He sold out everything and still gets the cold shoulder.
And even the moderate FinMins in the EU are still asking for Greece to do something FIRST before they even consider negotitating another package.
What happened to being a proud Greek?
Some rumors say Tsipras wants to call early elections in October, who knows. At this stage, and after Tsipras betrayal, I hope Germany wins this with the toughest of bailout rules just so Greeks get even more disillusioned by the Euro. It is the only hope so that they realize that they don't belong to this system. That having your own currency is actually good not bad...
Everybody who's saying Germany isn't running this show should think again. We have France No.2, Italy No.3 and USA/IMF backing a solution tonight and despite that it is far from certain whether they can convince Germany to give in on its demands, that just shows how much the EU is controlled by that one country!
Don't need think again...better Q is who runs Germony in real..
How about telling everyone "Hey, I gave them the shitty document you voted against, and they voted against that. Now they want this worse, shitty document, to be passed by our govt. Fuck them, LET'S WALK AWAY. We can't pay the debt anyway and as long as we have their hands in our finances we will never break free of this. We are broke. We need to repudiate the debt and start fresh with no help. That will mean a lower standard of living but we can do it together. These fuckers are not trying to help us at all."
Why not say that?
because Victoria Nuland has made him an offer he cant refuse. break up eu and nato by going to brics? you will suicided, and your immediate and extended family will be made to have a hell life on earth
I guess at some point it comes down to a truly moral choice if this the game you try to play. Sacrifice yourself for the many.
There's no defense like a good offense.
And I make this statement not in a defense of Nuland but as an analysis of how to respond to a Nuland.
Preemptive offense can be a most effective defense.
Why not walk away?
Because they have no money, zero, zilch, nada, and nothing of value to offer anyone.
All it would take is for you to think about it for 2 seconds (difficult, I know) and you might even understand.
All private Greek debt (mortgages, car loans, credit cards etc) are denominated in EUROS. Starting to see the picture?
So yes the government can be forgiven all its debts, but to forgive all the private loans means every greek bank is instantly bankrupt. Who owns the greek banks? Oh, pension funds, insurance companies, nobody that matters.
This is why they are preparing HUMANITARIAN AID just like they do for places like Somalia, because people will be wiped out completely, and even if their debts are somehow forgiven (dream on) they will be literally starting from 0.
There will be at least 2 weeks of rioting, blood will flow, and the entire economy will grind to a halt.
And then it can start anew, and they'll elect the nice socialist Varoufakis and they'll have this great new Drachma which won't be worth anything outside of Greece, but it will make their land and exports dirt cheap, so money will start to flow in as Greece is sold off cheap to the smart money.
But they'll muddle along for a few years with no big problems, and it might take 10 years before the morons lend them nmoney again, which they will default on (see 'Argentina').
There isn't a Greek alive who sees this coming and actually wants to vote for it. They are voting for fantasyland, and I can't help but think they deserve what they will get for being so stupid.
You are insulting, but the answer is a good faith effort anyway.
This from you:
"Because they have no money, zero, zilch, nada, and nothing of value to offer anyone."
If the debt was gone, do you know for a fact that they have more outflow than inflow? How? I don't know the answer to that, either. But if we knew this answer, we would know something real. If more outflow than inflow, then down size. Anyone living beyond their means comes to this moment in life.
They have a strategic location.
They are a beautiful destination, look at the pictures https://www.google.com/search?q=greece&rlz=1C1ASUT_enUS464US464&espv=2&b... , they are spectacular, I would love to visit if I knew I would be safe. I disagree with the idea that they have nothing to offer anyone. If they got creative I think they would.
The thing is, they can't pay. That seems to me to be the end of it. All else is histrionics and bullshit.
From my perspective, it is denial and avoidance of reality, an inability to think outside the box. All of us have lumps like this coming somewhere in the future. The question is, just how bad will it be. Careful saving and spending and adjusted expectaions will be necessary to make it through.
Time to break out the party hats yet?
So Greeks have to suffer because these wankers can't start up a printing press? What a bunch of pussys.
The Greek debt is peanuts when compared to market caps of Apple, Google and so on.
Hell, there are cartels and crime syndicates that could probably bail Greece out by making their payments current and they would be easier to deal with, pay or get killed.
Precisely.
What a crime.
The worth of a whole people, their language and culture, having less standing than some tech nothing.
" ... and they would be easier to deal with, pay or get killed."
Perhaps the troika offered that pathetic little bitch the same deal. It would explain why he rolled over like a 2 dollar whore.
Angela and friends want a summer home for cheap.
But wish to stop the pipeline deals for real.
"Tspiras" is Greek for "Benedict Arnold".
Another in a long line of "absolute, final" deadlines passes with no deal. How long before the next final deadline? Monday or Wednesday?
Have they set a deadline to set the deadline yet?
The circus is always looking for clowns...Tsipras needs to resign tonight and get a job he is made for....being a circus clown..
He ain't the funny kind. He is sad.
1+1 does not equal 2. It makes me sure the Tsipras has not folded and is playing the Troika to his advantage.
These proposals are incredibly smart balanced and strategic. That is 1. The other 1 apparently is that he is an absolute coward. These two pieces of information do not link.
Neither have some of his previous television appearances been that of a coward. He speaks in the same sorts of terms as Nigel Farage.
BOJ is meeting today to discuss the Greek 'situation'. This suggests that indeed Greece is unable to Japan bonds due on the 14th.
http://news.forexlive.com/!/boj-meeting-today-to-discuss-greek-situation-20150712
Wow, that moves up timeline a bit. Can't wait for an Autumn Election. Get off the dime in a few hours from now or the music calliope stops or blows.
(Calliope is the chief of all Greek Muses.)
papaswamp, Great catch.
7:30 a.m. on Monday (2230 GMT on Sunday) --- so Japanese meeting been going on for last hour or so...
Japanese officials to discuss Greek situation on Monday -officialhttp://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/12/reuters-america-japanese-officials-to-dis...
Greek samurai bonds ($89.6 million) are up for redemption July 14.
http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Economy/Default-fears-grow-as-Gr...
TOKYO -- Yen-denominated Greek bonds are coming up for redemption, and nonpayment could push credit rating agencies to formally label Greece as in default.
What catched my eye was this: "...government agrees to many hard measures but rejects participation of IMF to 3rd program".
Why would that be? Why is anything ok but IMF not? Its getting more and more clear to me that IMF and its usury system does to the countries what bankers did to the germany pre-WW2. Everybody try to avoid or reject it, even Ukraine was resisting at first.
but does he swallow?
yes, and then some
Conservatives don't believe in 'science' though...
We need to surrender so that these 'highly educated' (LOL) "folks" can have enough $$$$ to do what they want.
And FUCK Greece..
They're white anyway (at least sorta).
The EU and euro are on the way out unless they can pull off the unimaginable: to convert the south to the religion of "sound finance", which entails a cultural change. What's happening is therefore the ultimate test of malleability. If the north succeeds, a socialist wet dream will come true: Away with diversity, crush everybody and everything under a collective millstone.
They won't get what they want.
Army should pull a coup and message Tsipras an ultimatum: Don't come back you fucking traitor.
Call in the Icelandic armed forces and advisors. Then give Tsipras a few days off on the beach.
hardball's backfiring @germans
see: #thisisacoup
see: der spiegel (ger)
see: la liberation (fr)
and the following:
Incidentally, our readers flag up that the organisation which could take control of €50bn of “valuable Greek assets” is linked to none other than Wolfgang Schäuble himself.
equusmulusoctopus 12 July 2015 10:25pmThe Press Project has done some digging on the Luxembourg "Institution for Growth" to which the 4-page eurogroup paperdemands that €50bn of Greek state property must be transferred. Guess what. This Luxembourg "institution" is wholly owned subsidiary of German KfW and the chairman of its board is a certain Wolfgang Schäuble.
The Institution for Growth was announced just two years ago, by Schäuble and Greek PM Antonis Samaras.
as reported by The Economist’s Tom Nuttall
and from Varoufakis:
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/13/dr-schaubles-plan-for-europe-do-eur...
Tsipras is a slimy little worm. He and Syriza destroyed the country.
He should resign and take all his stupid Syriza buddies with him.
One Greek tragedy after another.
Grexit is a bluff. It is lie. Germany does not want weak European Union or EURO countries out since that would increase value of Euro substantially and kill German export. German domestic demand is flat or deteriorating and the only source of surplus and jobs is export.
But of course they have plan B, namely FED grandma has interest hike and Draghi the weasel , has trillion euro QE to help mitigate the blow and dump Euro if needed. Now, you know who runs the world. German race. It is best kept secret.
Anyways, if Tsipras was no a turncoat or fake or both he would have called their bluff long time ago and won concessions unless eurocrats really turned psychotic if true god save us.
Bring it on German trolls!!! I dare you.
Can we get one of the Obama red-line crossings meme with Tsipras, I think he's earned the title at this point.
What the fuck has Obama to do with it?
Well, as far as gold & silver...not sweating it, up or down, no matter, it's paid for!
whatever the price, it's mines now
have we had any ruminations from the great barry obama, the bankster's chimp?
Way too many cooks in the kitchen among Europe...
I had to read your post three times before I realized you said "cooks." Kept putting an "r" in there.
I would kill the Kocks before giving them a 1.
Burn. Zips. Propaganda. NUL
Why the fuck do you still want to be part of the EZ, Tsipras? With all those austerity demands, you might as well become a German protectorate. Shame on Greece if it accepts this proposal.
It's all BS. Greece future is outside the eurdollar. Tsipras knows it but he wants the rest of Europe to take the blame for that.
Boo. Hiss. 5:1 He's dead by September. I'd give better odds but this implies there are no grass roots or merchants shitting Crown-Halliburton weaps to Greece. As they did to Libya, Syria and ISIS.
*
Fucking moron. If this guy is alive in September, I'm stupid.
Carry on.
SNYK a fictious appendage of CB1 borrows 100 BILLION DOLLARS from KANS through CB1. After laundering the funds CB1 bribes CB1 to pledge the citizens of whothefuckcaresitsyounext as colllateral for their high life.
Any questions?
OK. You don't have 125 TRILLION DOLLARS. So I'll take interest only monthly payments at 29.9 from the CB.