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The Greek "Choice": Hand Over Sovereignty Or Take Five Year Euro "Time Out"
For those who missed today's festivities in Brussels, here is the 30,000 foot summary: Europe has given Greece a "choice": hand over sovereignty to Germany Europe or undergo a 5 year Grexit "time out", which is a polite euphemism for get the hell out.
As noted earlier, here are the 12 conditions laid out as a result of the latest Eurogroup meeting, which are far more draconian than anything presented to Greece yet and which effectively require that Greece cede sovereignty to Europe, this time even without the implementation of a technocratic government.
- Streamlining VAT
- Broadening the tax base
- Sustainability of pension system
- Adopt a code of civil procedure
- Safeguarding of legal independence for Greece ELSTAT - the statistics office
- Full implementation of autmatic spending cuts
- Meet bank recovery and resolution directive
- Privatize electricity transmission grid
- Take decisive action on non-performing loans
- Ensure independence of privatization body TAIPED
- De-Politicize the Greek administration
- Return of the Troika to Athens (the paper calls them the institutions... for now)
One alternative, generously presented to Greece, is for the country to put some €50 billion of assets - the best ones - in escrow to creditors. A more polite was of putting would be a Greek secured loan. This is how the Luxembourg FinMin Pierre Gramegna laid it out:
"A few new ideas were added to the table, especially one which is very important for some member states, which is that Greece would put a portion of its assets into a company that would be more independent from Greece."
"More independent" from Greece and "more dependent" to Berlin.
Greece would place about €50 billion of state assets into an independent company. Those assets could serve as collateral against aid loans, Gramegna says. "It would act as a kind of guarantee. There is great hesitation from the Greek side and now the heads of state and government have to choose."
"It would be a company structure based in Luxembourg, which would be managed from Greece with supervision by the European Commission and by the European Investment Bank. It would remain in Greek hands but it would create more assurances if it was known that a lot of assets were in this company."
"If one knows that the third bailout package would cost more than EU80B, one understands that countries are urging for some guarantees from Greece."
In other words, Greece is told to set aside a quarter of its GDP for Europe to do as it sees fit, and which can be "seized" if Greece is seen as veering away from its third bailout promises again.
And since Greece has no option but to promise everything and the moon, it will surely comply hoping that it is once again allowed to promptly forget all the promises as soon as it pockets some of that €86 billion in new bailout funds just to unlock the €120 billion in deposits held hostage in Greek banks by the ECB, even if the resulting debt will push Greek debt/GDP well above 200%.
Why?
Because the alternative is, and we quote...
"In case no agreement could be reached, Greece should be offered swift negotiations on a time-out from the euro area, with possibly debt restructuring."
... from the Eurogroup document:
No wonder Tsipras looks like this at the moment:
Somehow we think that if the only "alternative" is ceding sovereignty to Merkel and the rest of the northern European state, the vast majority of the population - which now clearly understands there is little further upside from remaining in Europe - may just opt for the aptly named "time out" from the most destructive experiment in Greek history. And even beg to make it permanent.
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when spain et al depositors run for the hills that will be interesting. your deposits are NOT INSURED SPANISH BITCHEZ. also, the bank's books are TOTALLY BOGUS.
It would be to Putin’s benefit to rescue Greece and strengthen Russia’s wall against NATO and the IMF.
Putin has said that Greece is part of the European Union and that Russia’s role would depend on the outcome of these negotiations. In other words, a Greek exit puts Greece in international waters with Russia willing and able to forge the alliances to save herself.
Look at the positions Greece has in the Mediterranean - the ports, the islands, the potential growth without EU quotas and limits on agricultural, tourism, etcetera...
Since the US is a Union of sorts, I wonder when certain states will also be kicked out./s
The Euro was a stupid idea to begin with. I am glad to see it go down in flames.
Actually the Euro is going to shoot up like a rocketship, sparking a deflation event that is going to pull Nanny States across the globe underwater until they drown in their own red ink. After that, yep. The whole EU project is going to flame out and tumble into the sea, or more likely, directly into the Merriner S. Eccles Federal Reserve Board Building in Washington, D.C.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eccles.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eccles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccles
OT:
Merkel had enough with US policy against Russia.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-leader-warns-terror-threat-peaceful-ci...
NO WAY. If I were a greek I would rather die valiantly with dignity than stay in the EU.
The psychopaths running all the EU institutions care not how many innocents die.
Turns my stomach to know what kind of people run things now days.
If you were a Greek civil servant (hardy-har-har) or pensioner, you would burn the country from one end to the other before exiting the Euro and going back to the Dreck-ma.
Since most Greeks are either pensioners or civil servants (hardy-har-har), they would have to be insane to desire a severe and immediate cut to their dole.
Whatever the merits of this demand for guarantees, I see virtually no difference in the tactics used here to how the German Nazis conducted themselves when they overran a number of European countries. This is plain unvarnished fascism straight out of the Brussels sewage pipe.
Tsipras and the Greeks would be mad to bow to this level of intimidation.
"Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
Go home, nationalize banks, stop payment on all bonds, print drachmas. Simple as 1-2-3-4.
But then, you see, the Greeks would have to dismantle their Nanny State and live within their means, which is the last thing they want to do.
When the means are printed out of thin air, what does it matter?
Most people will work pretty hard if given a decent job. However, government workers will work as little as possible.
Thank you! Both. Agree that is what should be done, leave, get your house in order - but the proud greeks dont want to be responsible for themselves. They want to be proud while living off someone elses dime
Greece has spoken. They don't want to stop taking the Euro intravenously. I'm not saying that Greece hasn't been fucked on by people that aren't Greeks, I'm simply stating that they are too dependent on the euro debt crack, and have no intention of breaking away from the EU/EMU. WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK WAS THE POINT OF THE REFERENDUM? CAN ANY FUCK HERE TELL ME? They are divorced from reality. They expect a fair deal from their masters? Ye clots, ye stones, ye worse than senseless things! Repudiate the debts you have determined to be odious by exiting EU/EMU, or tie yourself down in preparation for your acid bath!
all the documents contain the wording: start of negotiations
good idea.
start negotiations....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Qcm24dxaA
Brill clip.
Bankers strip mining a country. Greece should hope they get thrown out, but sadly they want another pay day.
Sounds like the Rest of Europe, RoE, are doing everything that Greeks do not know how to do.
Question: is there anybody in Greece who knows how to run a country?
Question: should Greece even be a country? Is is it enough to have a distinctive language and culture, but you don't have the competence to run a country?
Question: so many of you are berating the Germans, but how many of you are even reading what it is that they are asking the Greeks to do? Yes it is humiliating. But not because the Germans are forcing the Greeks to do these things, but because a country of 11 million people can not do the most basic, civil and necessary things that a country must do. It is humiliating for the Greeks, because they are acting like children, and they are being treated like children all because not a single Greek politician knows how to run a country or understand the responsibilities of fiscal responsibility (or if there are responsible Greeks they being treated unjustly, which speaks even more volumes of the calous and selfish greeks). Its not just the Greeks that are spoiled brats, but there seems to be a lot of commentary here that is very naive and foolish. Remember running a country is not about enlarging your own standing, it is about enlarging the standing the population as you go towards the future! It seems to me the Germans are doing more Greece than any Greek has ever done for their country.
Question: if the Greeks want to be part of the EU, then why don't honour EU regulations? You can't buy bread outside of a bakery, you can't buy drugs outside of pharmacy, including asprin, if you want an aspirin in the middle of the night you're out of luck, the pharmacies are closed. You can't get 90% of the milk products that you can buy in the US/Australia/Canada/UK, because the milk industry in Greece has low pasteurized milk only in the stores which is used as a false barrier of entry of European milk products. Store hours are still stuck in the middle ages.
Basically, Greece entered the EU but has implemented very little EU regulations. So why should they even be allowed to stay?
Greece borrow and borrow and borrow, but do next to thing to put back into the EU.
The same goes with Italy, which is where I am. We have here in Italy the utmost inefficient economy. Nearly everything still closes down in the afternoon. Supermarkets are poorly stocked, I waited recently for an entire two months for item to be restocked in a major supermarket. I can go on, but what is the point, we are very Greek here in Italy too.
By setting an example with Greece, a very strong message will be sent to Italy and France. And hopefully something will happen. I doubt it, but it must at least start, so Greece is the first step.
Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain and France, are dysfunctional economies. They are destroying the future of the young, for the greedy selfishness of the old. The old in these countries have treacherously stolen the future from the young, and it must end. Greece must be forced to change. Then Italy must be dealt with next. For Italy's debt is very close to imploding too.
All I can say is, thank you Germany and all those who side with you. IT IS ONLY THE WORD OF ONE ITALIAN BUT THANK YOU GERMANY! YOU ARE DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE!
tl dr; Slavery is good, the authorities are always right, money printed out of thin air has the moral right to claim the assets of the poor.
I ***UP*** vote your post 100000000000 times.
ben fatto !!!!!!!!
Cold-Pragmatism, what you have is called a Stockholm syndrome.
And very poor information, to boot.
Plus, you should be ashamed. A grown man, bitching because his supermarket hasn't stocked up on his preferred ketchup brand? Apalling.
You've got two feet. Walk to the next supermarket.
That's the whole point. NO SUPERMARKET IS STOCKED WELL. They are all bad. Furthermore, I am buying foreign stuff that most supermarkets don't stock. Should people even have to wait a month for frozen vegetables? That's how it is here at times, you can't even get the most basic items. Understand the message next time, than just the words you read. You might learn more.
Oh STFU plz
There's a lot of greeks who arent lazy fck govt workers or bankers or EU cock sucking elites.....they fcked it....so did the lazy and no tax payers....
Actually, wait a minute, i think i just described 99% of the olive pickin population. Lol
But even so, any side opposite a banker is the side i want to support, regardless of how lazy and stupid they are
I will like to give you all two anecedotes about Italy. These two stories ARE TRUE. They are both based in Turin, in Italy's north.
Before I moved to Turin I stayed in a downtown hotel near Porta Nuova, the central major railway station. I stated there for a few weeks in this not so minor hotel. I don't want to give a name for it could cost me lot. Laws here in Italy are very backward. Anyway, to keep track of their clientele in their hotel and the days the rooms are booked for you would expect them to use some sort of computer software. Oh no, not here in Italy. In this reputable hotel, they had no body that was computer literate. So what did they do? They took several A4 sheets of paper, taped them together to make a roll. And then they drew up the table for the whole month on it, and recorded every room and client that was there or booked. That's right a roll of paper! I AM NOT KIDDING. THIS IS WHAT GOES ONE EVERYWHERE HERE!
Second anecdote. There is another hotel very close to the one that I was staying, where the rooms were serviced by two people, a female italian, and african male. Now hotels here can get support from the State (Province if you will) for hiring people. Now this hotel was very rascist with the treatment of its employees. They they where quite keen to pay full wage of about 8 Euros an hour to the woman, but got state aid for the african at 4 Euros an hour. Yes the african got 1/2 the wages that the italian got, and the owners of the hotel made sure the african knew this, they enjoyed demeaning him. And this happens EVERYWHERE IN ITALY. The african was a legal african, but the Italians still cheated him. Where are the EU laws here?
I could write an expose on Italian rascism, corruption and crimes by politicians, police including carabinieri, but what's the point? For the people in Italy are largely racist and corrupt. I see in the market place, old italians stealing fruit as they pick up their shopping of the fruit vendor benches, as they lift their bags, the other hand is underneath taking two more fruits. Italians do this, I have never seen an african do this. We have politicians here where I live who think that balancing the books is not required (Renzi's PD mob). You think this is bad, hear this one, I waited 3 months for a window. Can you imagine living 3 months without a window in the middle of winter! That's how it is here. Very incompetent and very slack. The 5 Stars, or Cinque Stelle as they are known, are nothing more than a room of yelping monkeys. The PD, Renzi's mob, I have talked to several PDers not a single one knows how to balance a set of books or even believe that the books should be balanced in government. Forza Italia/North League (Berlusconi's gang) are nothing more than criminals. We have a justice system here that protects the elites and punishes the every so fewer hard working. Italy is run by idiots, morons and clowns; all of them dishonest and corrupt. The police and carrabinieri pick on the immigrants, while leaving the Italian drug sellers sell their stuff on the buses, they know it happens, for I have seen with my very own eyes on several occassions the police and carrabinieri prentend to not notice this market. There are protection rackets everywhere, the government runs most of them. I can't get most of things I could of bought over the counter in Australia, where I came from. I have to get my mother to send them to me. I have people send me hardware products, because they are so backward here that they still build like they did 100 years ago! I KID YOU NOT!
If you are looking to buy property in Italy.....DON'T. Everything is poorly built here. Nothing is to standard! There are no standards here in Italy! There are no inspections of buildings! The still build like it was before the First World War! Electical systems in homes are like it was in Australia 50 years ago. Nothing is to modern spec. standards like in Australia or Canada. Nothing!
You buy in Italy you're in for a world of hurt! And then there are the legal issues with property....you are better off working with the MAFIA!
We need help in Italy too. Fix Greece, then start on Italy, we are a mess.
"I don't want to give a name for it could cost me lot. Laws here in Italy are very backward."
You'd risk what for posting a name on Zerohedge, hiding behind a nickname? Come on, puh-leeze!
"That's right a roll of paper! I AM NOT KIDDING. THIS IS WHAT GOES ONE EVERYWHERE HERE!"
Impressive. A catastrophe indeed. You sound just like a girly whose world has crashed around her ears because she has broken the heel of one of her shoes.
The rest sounds a bit less llike whining and a bit more convincing, until "I can't get most of things I could of bought over the counter in Australia, where I came from."
So you're an Aussie, not an Italian.
"I have people send me hardware products, because they are so backward here that they still build like they did 100 years ago! I KID YOU NOT!"
Disastrous. Do you need the bones taken out of your fish by your mummy, too, before you can eat it?
"The still build like it was before the First World War!"
Before WW1, they even built cathedrals and castles that still stand. They knew how to build alright.
Maybe I'll get that house in Italy after all. Buit like they did before WW1, sounds perfect to me.
"Nothing is to modern spec. standards like in Australia or Canada. Nothing!"
Thank Goodness. Modern buildings are crap.
http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2001/jan/14/featuresreview.review3
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0607-lopez-fallingapart-20...
Hallelujah, one of the most refreshingly responsible and adult comments i have found on this website. They claim to be libertarians but actually most are ideologically inconsistent and back hardline socialists in Greece that believe in a big welfare state and patronage just because they think their are the innocent victim of european bullies in Berlin and Brussels. I posted a while back how frustrating it is to be one of the few Europeans on this website, i should not be surprised that one of the only sensible and constructive comments on this site comes from another European.
In other news, Greece accidentally issues death threat to the EU simply by existing and not paying. This bullying and bluster is about hiding the house of cards that is the EU.
If people lose confidence, the con game is over.
Exactly. And ...."in 5 years we'll have an EU Navy that (really) can repo Crete"
Greeks have PROVEN that they cannot govern themselves, therefore they MUST be governed by the EU if they stay in the EU, or leave the EU and be crushed economically - which is VERY well-deserved fate for ALL socialist parasite SCUM !!!!!!!!!
The Greeks want to stay in the Euro Zone, European leaders know this. This is just a personal vandetta against Syriza now. The Greek government will eventually cave to ALL DEMANDS because they have no other choice, and by doing so, Syriza will self-destruct.
Tsipras brought this upon himself. All this is happening and this nutcase probably still wants to stay in the Euro Union. Tell Mario dragqueen to go to hell. What is wrong with Tsipras???
Now Tsipras is negotiating the ultimatums, which are precursors for any official negotiations:
1 No IMF involvement, 2 Stronger statement on debt, 3 Signal to ECB to maintain ELA, 4 Scrap 50bn idea,
Are the ultimatums negotiable at all ?
3 or 4 more hours of discussions...
https://twitter.com/tom_nuttall/status/620350412105908224
Hello Tsipri ? It's Vlad. Do you have a few islands to rent to us ? Or some free spots in your harbours ? I'm ready to pay 1 year in advance if you sign by tomorrow.
"Ok. You cross this line...and you die...."
Draws line in sand with foot.
Line is ccrossed.
"Ok...cross THIS line...and you die."
Old Robin Williams standup routine if memory serves.
Very fitting in this situation. Let it end already so things can move forward, or backward, or whichever direction follows.
FUCKING LOAN SHARKS.
USING THAT I.M.F. PLAYBOOK.
THEY'LL TAKE YOUR SECURITIES, MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO SERVICE AND GET THE BLOODY LOT ON THE CHEAP.
I think Varoufakis could see this coming, if you agree to this you are very, very stupid.
DEFAULT, NOW, JUST TELL THEM TO FUCK OFF, EAT YOUR DERIVATIVES AND IF DEUTSCH BANK GOES BUST, TOUGH TITTY.
The prospects of Dushbag bank going down is pretty much the only reason there is even a debate about this crisis from the German side.
They are shitting their pants.... but their hands are tied because if they let Greece win... every other nation in Europe will quickly try and do the same thing.
Germany is stuck.
1) They can give into Greece and every other European nation and their plans to steal the dirt from everyone for cheap over the next 20 years will be setback for a century.
or
2) They can give up let Greece Grexit and Dushbag bank goes bust tanking the German economy and probably starting WWIII when the cluster fuck of counterfeit govt/corporate derivative shit explodes rippling through the global economy....causing social unrest around the globe.
Greece should team-up with Iceland, Iran, N.K and Cyprus.
Greeks are good seafarers.
I'd rather live in a tent and scavange for food to preserve my soveriegnty, call my own shots than to grovel to foriegn interests, eating the scraps off their table. Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. Hopefully some day this will dawn on the Greeks (and other nations).
Believe me,you wouldn't want to live in a tent,or be out scavenging for food,not up here in Alaska.Because then you'ld be competing directly with Grizzly Bears for food,and territory,and that's never a good idea..
Yes VW Nerd but your type is in the minority and always will be. Most will succumb, to fill their stomachs or their children's stomachs. This is how they work it. The posionous flatworms running the show turn people's best instincts against them. That is how the CIA and the jackals work. No offense to jackals or flatworms, btw.
If indeed he has a choice, Tsipras has a very unpleasant choice. If they actually do have the option to abandon their debt and the EZ (that is not a given - this could all be Kabuki), Tsipras could conceivably appeal with utmost sincerity to the Greek people to help their neighbors, open their wallets, don't let the hospitals run out of clean sheets or the old lady down the street go without food for three days waiting for a reduced check. He should turn out his own pockets and hit the streets. That would take real leadership. This could be done. Cynicism can be overdone.
Such a move would also require tremendous sincerity and he would be villified by the MSM; because that is what MSM does. Or set up; or eat a bullet. Stakes are very high here. We saw what they did to D. Strauss-Kahn a few years back.
I myself speculate he has been told that if he accepts Russian aid he is a dead man. He may be bribed with a billion dollars cash as we speak. We will never know. Time for popcorn I guess.
At least the Greeks got to vote..When we handed Amerika over to the Joos back in 2008,all we got was an Obamba phone..
The Jooos have been running the USA for over 100 years with the advent of the FED
Take a hit for freedom and take the exit door.
Apparently Greece pays a large portion of its GDP to national security (2nd behind the US in NATO). The largest supplier of those armaments is the US. Perhaps the US should forgive THAT debt.
The US also gives Greece GRANTS (along with other countries such as Isreal) to buy arms, with the stipulation that the money must be spent in the US. It's an indirect subsidy of the US military manufacturing industry.
An example is a few years ago, the US military GAVE Greece 400 Abramas tanks.
The entire Greek military is in shambles, they joke about the submarines that were sold to Greece. . . . half of them sail sideways because they are defective.
If anything Greece should ask for a refund.
Conveniently forgotten option:
PAY BACK THE DAMNED MONEY YOU TOOK (Hint: curtailing your corruption will greatly help).
The eifel tower adds about 350 Billion Dollars to the French Economy.
How much would the Parthenon add to the Greek economy if Europe didn't steal most of it?
How much money would that be adjusted for inflation since they were stolen from the Greek people.... by the U.K.... Italians ...Turks . . . .. . . Germans. . . . etc..?
Most of the art in European museums is stolen Greek art from WWII art that instead of contributing to the Greek economy by drawing in tourists is contributing to other European nations economies.
Europe has been profiting off the heritage and history of Greece for centuries.
Greece doesn't owe Europe SHIT.
Europe owes Greece TRILLIONS in war reparations and stolen art, half these European bureaucrats probably have condos with columns from the Parthenon in their living rooms.
.
.
*Thanks* (/s) for "sharing" the predictable, mindless Leftist and Anarchist chant of
"I'm not stealing, I'm taking it back (alternatively: I'm liberating it!)!"
You are a filthy, envious thief...rationalizing your vulgar, immoral behavior.
You disgust me.
And you are a filthy thief rationalizing the thievery and criminality of the Euro system.
Greece is not taking back or stealing.
Greece is being robbed (back then AND NOW).
Just because you call highway robbery a "loan" doesn't make it so.
I can call a zebra a horse but at the end of the day a zebra is still a zebra and at the end of the day Europe is robbing Greece BACK THEN AND NOW.
Tsipras here is the Plan to fix Greece stop being a pussy:
1) Remove VAT tax completely, it provides no benefit to the Greek govt or the Greek economy.
2) Broaden the tax-base by lowering taxes across the board , the "one tax plan" 7% Income Tax , thats it.
3) Shrink Greek govt by removing 50% of the seats / offices from govt.
4) Get rid of the office of president in greece it serves no function, the president is like a figure head in Greece he doesn't make any decisions and doesnt have any real say in anything, it is a pointless position, no need for it, most people dont even know that Greece has a president lol meanwhile the Prime Minister pretty much fills that role.
5) Re-print the Drachma, circulate it via air-drop to the public in a mandatory Euros for Drachmas program in which all confiscated Euros will be used to buy gold/silver and the drachmas willl be backed by said assets which will be held at the greek treasury.
6) Codify a fixed rate of inflation (5% for the first year 2% every year after that forever) that is the amount of drachmas to gold ratio will rise 5% the first year (easing) and 2% per year after that at a fixed rate that can not be changed by law.
7) Codift that if anyone votes to change the monetary system after the re-institutions of the drachma that it will be held as treason and the penalty is death and that it will be legal for citizens to execute said treason perpetrator without fear or legal ramifications and to boot a bounty will be rewarded for patriotism.
This ensures that the people can protect their money by law and lethal force.
8) Refuse payment on all loans, deem them all illegal and criminal, seize all land and property in Greece owned by foreigners residing in Europe and auction it off to the Greek citizenry.
9) Create the first unified online voting system, so that Greece's system of direct democracy can be maintained, all laws will not be voted on unless first gaining the support of the people.
10) Public trial and imprisonment of all foreign governing bodies that enter greece (Troika members to be arrested if they ever set foot on Greek soil).
11) All positions in the Greek govt must be filled by Greek born citizens with Greek heritage going back atleast 3 generations.
12) All positions in the Greek govt can not be filled by anyone who has ever worked for a bank or financial institutions.
13) All positions in the Greek govt can not be filled by anyone under the age of 28 and over the age of 45.
14) All positions in the Greek govt can not be filled by anyone who has any relatives who work for banks/fin institutions.
15) All Greek govt positions will be served for a maximum of 6 years 1 term (no repeats).
16) All Greek govt spending must go to public works, repairs, road construction, school construction, and social security programs, military.
17) Total Greek govt spending will not exceed 90% of revenue, and the first years spending will not exceed 60% of the new drachmas put into circulation for the year.
18) Total Greek govt spending will be distributed as follows: Public Works 15% of spendable revenue, repairs and road construction 20%, School Const/Maint 20%, Social Security Programs Total of 40% distributed: 10% to be used as Grants to people under 29 to start businesses, 20% as retirement aid to elderly , and 10% for poor (food stamps etc.)
5% Military.
19) Military and Economic deals with China and Russia, lots of them to protect Greece from European invasion.
20) No income tax on money brought into Greece from outside sources (if you sell olive oil to Russia from Greece you pay no taxes on that income for example)
The entire greek economy would stabilize, the greek govt would be stable.
Greece is a small country with a large elderly population.
Thinking you can keep the country together without social security is idiotic at this point, atleast until the elderly die off... in ... say 10~20 years. . . but old Greek people are resilient....most live to be 80-120 and no one even knows cause half of them dont have a birth certificate or know what year they were born.
Take the 5 years and debt restructruring, peg drachma dually to usd and rub. Watch eur fall, pay back now cheaper debt.
You can't artifically "peg" a worthless currency to any other currency and expect just becasue you say so, it will be worth that much.
why not, it worked for the yuan *badump tish*
They're all worthless, so why not?
The most simple solution seems to be to swap some of Greece´s debt for all net contributions from the EU for the next 50 years. By doing that Greece wouldn´t be able to evade its obligations. Uncertainty would be substantially reduced. Greece would assume responsibility for its own economy.
Considering the way Greece now collects its taxes I suspect that there would be a substantial risk for a future Greek default and chaos even if the debt would be reduced to 100 % of GDP. Even a reduction to 80 or 50 % would probably be accompanied with a considerable risk for a future Greek default. Because that is how Greece has worked in the past. And even under such extreme conditions as over the past 5 years Greece has not been willing to improve its tax collecting system to a substantial extent.
This is an example of why the EU is a bad idea. I don´t know whether a smaller union without Greece, Spain and Portugal would work. Perhaps a union without France as well would work. But I still think that a simple free trade zone would have been a better idea. The purpose of the European Union has not been to improve the economy but to consolidate power by buying votes in Southern and South East Europe with money from Northern Europe.
Over the past several weeks, I have vascillated back and forth. It's all Greece's fault - they don't give a shit about paying bills, high pensions, etc - and - on the other hand, I look over at Germany, the EU, the ECB and IMF, I become more convinced they don't give 2 shits about Greece as a country or even it's citizens - human beings. It's all about the almighty euro to them. Bottom line - Greece really just needs to stand up - walk the hell out of the room - not look back and tell all of them to go fuck themselves and any debt Greece owed is now considered null and void. All hell will break loose - but Greece will NEVER ever survive and have any future under those slave masters - they will always be indebted to them. If the Greek government and Greek people choose to live in squalor then that's their choice. I think, in time, they'll become hugely successful if they do things differently and smartly. I wish them all the best.
The poor Baltic countries accepted more austerity than Greece now faces. On the other hand Greece has got accustomed to a higher standard of living than the Baltic countries.
Also remember that tax collection in Greece still doesn´t work.
The Baltics got raped by the West, pure and simple. They (still) have the highest suicide rates in Europe according to wikipedia. Makes them more a model of what not to do than anything else, no?
The Baltic countries feel that it is not fair that they shall suffer more than Greece.
Leave and don't pay. They know Greece won't pay. Sounds like a gift. Do swaps with BRICS.
At this stage Tsipras needs to walk away and make it clear... we ain't coming back in 5yrs, we are done, you are not having our country.
Actions speak louder than words, Tsipras is behaving like a puppet. If it looks like a duck, etc
OK. Next Greece will have to pass many tests: Vultures, Banksters, Riots, Starvation, etc...
a Modern Greek Odyssey.
Greece should hand over sovereignty for a time -
to Iceland.
Fuck the EU.
Complex problem finally analyzed and broken down to simple binary logic. Occam's razor at work.
Cleared out that foggy head and bramblebush cobwebs. (Late Spring cleaning)
Final decision in 24 hours.
Oxi-logic cleared up the 5 year game(d) theory mess.
I was just listening to the Manic Street Preachers, how apt.
http://bit.ly/1MoD04h
OT
On Thursday, Wind Power Generated 140% of Denmark’s Electricity DemandJuly 11th, 2015
Via: Guardian:
So much power was produced by Denmark’s windfarms on Thursday that the country was able to meet its domestic electricity demand and export power to Norway, Germany and Sweden.
On an unusually windy day, Denmark found itself producing 116% of its national electricity needs from wind turbines yesterday evening. By 3am on Friday, when electricity demand dropped, that figure had risen to 140%.
Interconnectors allowed 80% of the power surplus to be shared equally between Germany and Norway, which can store it in hydropower systems for use later. Sweden took the remaining fifth of excess power.
My house is powered by harnessing the wings of butterflies. I sell the excess back to the power company for $11,000 a month.
Fogive me but, does Tyler Durden now write everything on this site?
He always did. I don't think they ever figured out how to make more than one login...
<---- Germany will let Greece back in the house after 5 years as promised
<---- Germany will change the locks and move state
@tarapalmeri
Greek official: €zone’s plan for privatizing €50B of greek assets is “on another planet” for @atsipras & temporary #Grexit "100 percent No.”
Well, he has excelent oportunity to leave EURO zone and go back to drachma! So why is he not doing that? Where is the problem?Accordin to ZH - EURO & USD is crashing and alll future belongs to RUB (ha ha ha)? So why oy why greece still hold on to EURO if according to ZH it doesn't have any future?
:D
Give the EU the middle finger BIRD, and man up. Don't be SLAVES!
A word from Greece:
Imagine the Greek people having a referendum and voting 62% for an exit out of euro.
Imagine all the Greek political parties in parliament going against the people's choice and voting 251 out of 300 for a new "agreement" of slavery instead of an exit.
Imagine the irony in all this...
THe only choice left is REVOLUTION OR MILITARY COUP...impossible choices for a democratic people...
Our last hope: The fascist Shoible makes demands so nazi-driven that are totaly impossible to be implemented by the 251 Greek traitors in parliament...
Some correction to Banking ransom demands to Greece and Germany.
Bestill our halfwit maggot dependency progs of the world. The train has left, you can fight over dumpster table scraps. Licking cans of botulism.
Go ahead and kiil yourself. It's the Hope and Change you voted for.
This is essentially the deal Bonn offered East Berlin when the GDR ran out of other people's money. In return for Bonn's bailing out East Berlin agreed to
In other words, the Germans have concluded that Greece is not reformable short of a complete takeover by Brussels. They might have a point, after the Syriza shitshow.
Consider that post-Grexit Greeks will face a further fall in living standards of 40 percent---about what the SED would have had to somehow make GDR citizens accept without the benefit of the Wall. Only in the mind of a demented SED lifer like Honecker did that look like an option. His minions pushed Honecker aside and took the deal.
So Tsipras has three options:
Treuhand, is exactly my thought !
PUTIN FTW!!!
"Russian President Vladimir Putin warned of dangers to the global economy from U.S. borrowing while saying Greece isn’t solely to blame for its debt crisis.
“It’s a serious problem not just for the United States but for the whole world economy,” Putin told reporters Friday in the Russian city of Ufa in response to a question on the prospects of the biggest developing nations. “Debt exceeds gross domestic product there.”
"... This isn’t the first time the Russian leader has attacked U.S. economic policy: he’s previously derided the “dollar monopoly” that allows the U.S. to act like a “parasite” on the global economy."
People have different opinions on him and this kicks @$$.
The last time the U.S. had a president who was this smart was Ronald Reagan. (Reagan had the largest employment/population growth in the history of the world with Glass Stegall as law- income taxes lowered the deficit then) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-10/putin-calls-u-s-debt-s...
He should worry more about Russia debts and start paying them
"Since the beginning of 2015, OAO Gazprom has not paid for its debts to state concern Turkmengas for the shipped volumes of Turkmen natural gas," Turkmenistan's Oil and Gas Ministry said in a statement on its official website (www.oilgas.gov.tm).
"Russian company Gazprom has become insolvent on its natural gas purchase-and-sale contracts due to the continued global economic crisis and economic sanctions imposed by Western nations on Russia," the ministry's statement said.
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKL8N0ZO30Q20150708?irpc=932
thats the same reuters who is STILL claiming on their web site that Russia and China NEVER signed their gas deal.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/20/us-china-russia-idUSBREA4J0562...
so much for Reuter's "reporting"
Hell of a way for the rest of Europe to treat a fellow NATO member. "We expect your help if we are attacked but otherwise just go starve."
NATO is military organization - what did you expected from allies? To send in army to figure out budget issues regarding pensions and taxes?
Open Your Eyes.
Yes, NATO is a Millitary Organization.........But it is also the stick that the Bankers (NON PRODUCTIVE WORK) that removes the Cream and Takes the Cow/Goats and the feilds in which they eat.
Trust Your Government, You know.....Those who feed you GMO's that Profit some and hold others into Surf-dumb.
What a f*** you talking about? Again - what did you expected from NATO regarding helping Greece with it's budget issue? WHAT?
Name at least ONE practical step this military organisation allies should agree upon for Greece budget issue? WHAT?
NATO is military organization - what did you expected from allies? To send in army to figure out budget issues regarding pensions and taxes?
Sending in the army will only happen if Greece tries to leave EU servitude or NATO.
hAHAH, You are like the Slaves before the American Civil War (which we also created).
Dance, niggers, dance, hahahhhahahahaha
-the Krauts
"
Maybe not in my lifetime, but Europe willl dance to my fiddle"
Adolf Hitler, Table Talk, 1942
Haircuts cannot be undertaken (and the debt cannot be repaid or servcied) = welcome to debt serfdom
The Greeks are a Subject Race. We have to support the Italians
Angela Hitler..
Well well. FED and Goldman have to wrking hard tonight. Wha would happen to them if people around the world suddenly cant or dont want to borrow any more?
50 billion of state assets to a "independent company", so in other word this "independent" IE controlled by germany, i guess you don't even need wars these day's to capture country's assets, evidence is clear EU is nothing but germanys project to create fourth reich.
50 billion of state assets to a "independent company", so in other word this "independent" IE controlled by germany, i guess you don't even need wars these day's to capture country's assets, evidence is clear EU is nothing but germanys project to create fourth reich.
Someone probably already posted this cartoon of Merkle. It is new to me. Great Likeness.
https://twitter.com/avilarenata/status/620300596415975424/photo/1
Some story where Krugman says Euro Terms are madness and against the purpose or meaning of the Euro Project:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1579542428933090&id=14...
Trending on Twitter: many people made at Brussels el al:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ThisIsACoup?src=hash
-
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/12/greek-crisis-surrender-f...
-
Ultimate Kick the Can down the Road: 5 Year Grexit!! Bullsh$$$
KRUGMAN: 'The European project ... has just been dealt a terrible, perhaps fatal blow.'
http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-on-breakdown-in-greek-talks-...
Krugger finally headline making sense; but, then the rest devolves into blaming others for all the debts and loans and issues.
At least it is nearing a resolution.
I have this image of EU Countries fighting and bickering over whether it is De Troika, Le Troika, A Troika, or La Troika.
https://twitter.com/Nick_1453/status/620369846165970944/photo/1 (Gorbachev Poster)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJwGA2IWUAANiKK.jpg (EU Stars in Swastika)
https://twitter.com/drlivanis/status/620365425239564288/photo/1 (EU Flag, stars in circle around Swastika)
Krugman Liberals must be losing to the Wall Street Fascists or Eu Royalty Fascist!! Who would ever have Thunk??!!
The EU is already dead, and so is Tsipras. This process has killed both of them. They are now zombies.
The true face of EU has been unmasked. Italy, Spain, Ireland and Portgual. Watch and learn. You have been warned.
The increase from 100% GDP to 180% GDP (or more) is caused by 1 thing only ...
the "help" from EU politicians, ECB, IMF and TBTF banks.
We should take all the private assets from the members of those institutions and then put them away for live.
Maybe a bonus trip to the real sun, the one-way kind with a rocket.
Yeah, tell me NAZI Germay is not in charge.
You watch too much TV..GEt off your ass , go live and work in Germany for 12 months so you can speak with real experience..The Germans work hard and are honest people..The Greeks? They invented the Trojan Horse...So back stabbing and under handed methods are in the blood
Regardless, you're all considered beasts of burden by TPTB. Everyone will have a turn in the barrel.
at this point whose fault it is doesn't matter... that which can't be paid back, won't be paid back... default and restructure, move on, see you in 5 Greeks... good luck
Banks not tanks.
Same end.
The Fourth Reich.
Lets hope the Greeks can resist again.
Ja, Comerade.
Bitte, Rauchen. Haben Sie Ein Ziggaretten?
Sehr, Gut.
Troika:
- European Commission (EC), Jean-Claude Juncker(Royal Family, though he is scandalized by Spying on his King and losing track of Gold and Funds provided to Stay Behind Army Network to fight Communist Invasion)
- European Central Bank (ECB), Mario Draghi(formerly of Goldman Sachs International)
- IMF, the incomparable & Beautiful, Christine Lagarde
- Troika Russian Dance
- Troika (driving), a sled or carriage drawn by three horses harnessed side-by-side, iconic symbol of Russia
Hm... lots of Russian themes here. Ang-Gela Merkle from the USSR included.
Eu is a Dance, Deception of the public with Propaganda is a Dance, Reasons for War & Invasion are a Dance, Banking is a Dance where you pretend your butt is outraged and your bank is one the line... when of course it is only your job, your compensation, your bonus that is on the line in Farktional Reserve Banking... $#%*&@
Mind Blow . How about this https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/620357444649287681
Dispossession, Slavery and Death
in 1940 Auschwitz
in 2015 Greekschwitz
Sustainability of pension system
I happened to hear a few Greek retirees being asked about pension reform, meaning pension haircuts. They naturally were pretty piss off, saying "They had worked under a contract, now that contract is being broken, after they paid in their part, i.e. labor + employee contributions.
Without making clear what jobs they reitreed from, one could guess they were middle class from their manner of speech and social references. The one man was on a state pension of $2,300 Euro a month. That was a good solid pension of over $2,500 dollars a months before the Euro contracted to .9.
I imagine the weak Euro brings him to $2,000 a month and the pension hair cuts are around 30% plus. So best case he is looking at $1,400 a month to live off of, if Merkel gets her way.
That is a substantial haircut, as long as Euro weakness prevails.
With what money were those pensions funded?
(Answer: fraudulent "loans" Athens had no intention of re-paying.)
I wish someone would pay me $1400 a month to live somewhere sunny and do jack shit all day. As it is, cut the old buzzard off. Care and feeding of the aged is their children's responsibility---not that of foreign taxpayers.
Good Lord. Where are those death panels when you need them?
“Time Out”. That’s a farce in itself right there. It’s just a way of saying Greece is out, but, we’re not going to write down the debt, because, there might be a snowballs chance in hell we restructure and recoup it someday. They’re not buying time for Greece, they’re buying time for the EU and creditors to avoid recognizing losses.
It’s hard to imagine a scenario where Greece re-enters the EU once it leaves. Either their economy continues to get worse, in which case they won’t qualify anyway, or their economy eventually stands on it’s own, in which case they would be fools to let the EU stand on their throats again.
I will tell you what Obama might be afraid about Greece and EU..
(listen carefully folks)
Scenario is that Greece exits EU and after few months of chaos economy starts stabilizing and with the devalued currency starts to recover, and repay some of its debt in drachmas, and blah blah blah... Greece is fixed and never heard again
But then the folks in the Southern states will start thinkin "hey why not do the same like the Greeks did? Lets create our own debt bubble, and then before defaulting the banks we will ask from northen states to give us loans to rescue us and their banks from defaulting, and then we will make those awful Yankees begging us to leave the Union".
Then South will be free and will rise again.
So maybe this what the US gov is scared
SICK of the boo hooing for Greece how hard done by they are and how mean the Germans are... If you have ever done business with a Greek and I HAVE BEEN DONE by a Greek big time..They make all the promises..take what they can and laugh in your face when it's time to pay up..Greece has defaulted more times in history that any other Western country..And to quote the father of the Greek who 'DID' me
" Your only here for a short time..take as much as you can from as many as you can and tell em where to go"
THAT my friends is the Greek way...You make deal to do a job for 200 and when you are done they offer you 50..F*&^K the Greeks...!!!!!!
And as far as the Germans go..say what you wish..But after 12 yrs living in Germany I can tell you..When they say they will do something they DO..and they work very hard and honest..again...F^%$ the GREEKS!!!
Germany has been subsidized for 60 years by the USA.
What don't you understand. Hell, I could have been a major part.
Money from government spent overseas = subsidy.
In the case of Germany... $20 Billion dollars Annually at least (1970s-1999)
Our slaves are getting too smart. We need to contain them before they run off the plantation.
Offer them fresh Fukushima Kobe steaks, 800 channels of libtard news, and free Internet. Once Windows 10 launches, Google Porn baby.
/lol
As big a bunch of assholes as the EU (Germany) appear to be, I see their point.
Greece, I have an idea for you...
Why not spend ONLY what you collect in taxes?
I know its radical but, it might work?
Squid
The Obama administration and RICO laws would frown upon your logical thinking. Why do you think Fast track and TPP were passed without consent?
Watch the the Global fucksticks attempt to move forward until it doesn't.
All theater, until curtain closes.
Let's consider:
- You and me may not acutally know the Impact of the US 2008 Financial Crisis on EUrope, nor the subsequent possible targeting of Greece as one of the PIIGS
- You and me may no have actual access to Market information about countries in Europe like Greece to validate if they have been targeted by a European or NATO Power or a Banking Power like from Wall Street
So what do we know?
I can't tell.
We know the USA has been involved in the Greek Politics, Social Structure, Political Powers, Military Powers since 1947 when the US Congress signed Legislation to fight communist influence in Greece. And it appears there are other activities like the 1967 Military Coup... and political violence which has been laid at the feet of NATO.
We don't know shit sitting in the USA/UK/Paris/Frankfurt/Hague/Sharp.
So why do we have an opinion? The internet doesn't work well when History is Twisted and written by the Winners.
Edit:
Maybe a million people have been learning and studying G20, WB, IMF, EU, Wall Street, London, Power Structures...
So I am Wrong.
Many people know this stuff.
I just have to learn faster!
Its MIND BOGGLING by the count of people's comments before me, that DON"T KNOW
Greece cannot be kicked out. There is NO LEGAL statute in the EU's Mastrict Treaty that provides for a mechaism of expulsion.
Bravo V and Alex! You once again have them chasing their tails!!! And all the idiots in ZH too, judging by their idiotic comments.
What happened to this place?
They won't, or as you point out, can't, be kicked out.
But the ECB can just choke off the Greek banks.
Depositors can't get their money and the Grrek Government, horror of horrors, can only spend what it collects in taxes.
They're pushing the Greeks to kick themselves out.
Squid
According to Belgian newspaper "De Standaard" via Belgian party leader John Crombez, EU/trojka has double agenda and under pressure of KPMG, EY, Deloitte & PWC is actively trying to reverse a March 2015 law that would charge a 26% corporate tax on Greek multinationals ( http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20150709_01769514 ). According to Gabriel Zucman's upcoming "Hidden Wealth of Nations", Greeks have parked around $170 bln in Switzerland and Luxembourg ( http://gabriel-zucman.eu/richesse-cachee/ ). I.e., trojka maffia is trying to "save" assets of wealthy tax evaders, not of "average" Greeks. 26% tax rate on $170 bln would yield $44 bln and solve debt crisis overnight.
Oh, so the vote of the Greek people didn't matter? Do they feel like Americans now?
"€50 billion of state assets into an independent company" owned by KfW Bankengruppe" - https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/620357444649287681
KfW Bankengruppe "is owned by the Federal Republic of Germany (80%) and the Federal states of Germany (20%)"
The chair of the Supervisory Board changes annually between the German Federal Ministers of Finance and Economic Affairs; the chairman for 2015:Dr Wolfgang Schäuble Federal Minister of Finance.
The first KfW senior management: Hermann J. Abs and Dr Otto Schniewind - https://www.kfw.de/KfW-Group/About-KfW/Identität/Geschichte-der-KfW/
Hermann J. Abs -
"Mr. Abs, according to an official report to the U.S. Defense Department by the commanding general of an Army decartelization unit, participated in direction of Hitler’s economic strategy and undertakings that “performed a planning, shaping, and guiding function in the Nazi economy.” Nazi Economic Minister Walther Funk, sentenced at Numberg, described the role of Abs’ bank in Nazi crimes and exploitation of occupied areas. Deutsche Bank, under Abs’ direction, was among industries and institutions that backed and benefitted from the Hitler regime."
http://www.jta.org/1961/06/21/archive/hermann-abs-leading-nazi-banker-honored-by-world-exhibit-group
OK...so what's the alternative..Let me conjecture...Greece owes Europe 200 billion euros.
Go to China and say that you need to borrow 200 billion euros..and you will pay them back with interest. Greece is not able to pay Europe but with the shackles off I am sure that they will pay promptly their China loan. or..
Go to the USA and talk to Mr. Obama and tell him you have hit a rough patch in your finances and need to borrow 200 billion euros. This loan would be backed by the full faith of the US government. I am sure Greece would surely pay the US back on time with interest. You know...one NATO state helping another. Oh..and if Greece had problems paying back the loan...why the US taxpayer would make good on the default. Do you feel comfortable loaning Greece 200 billion euros?
Grab the binoculars and read Goldman Sachs terms and conditions.
Yeah a real look at alternatives and real solutions would be a dozen different packages from China or the USA.
But of course if Russia, China and the USA don't want to provide Grants, or very low interest loans... then there are political reasons... or optics like how does China look if it Loans to foreign countries at 5% while creating unlimited Yuan for it's own economy... Wait, they are already doing that with South America, Africa, Australia, but maybe not in such a large amount.
If Geopolitics is about pushing the big powers around about their loans, credit, debt... then that is politics.
If the Troika is pushing around Greece, then that is politics.
IF Greeks have lost business due to careless statements from the Troika, and if TPTB have put in a word that Greek trade was to be cut and not trusted, then that is politics.
When have you ever know the USA, US Banks, & the Troika not to be about Politics and Targeting the weakest link?
Banks create money out of thin air... so solutions are obvious if grants or debt write-offs or LIRP Loans are available. CB are not WB or IMF. The EU Snake is eating itself. But the stakes are the same as if it was the USA, UK, France, Spain, Italy, or Latin America.
They better get the Hubble Space Telescope to read print that small.
To put the total Greek debt into perspective, it is less than one stupid F35 which cannot go toe to toe against an F16.
That is only one fighter plane versus a whole economy and a nation that has contributed literature, arts and democracy to the world.
Now keep in mind we are not talking about the monies spent on carriers, other weapons, NSA, CSA and so on.
You have to wonder.
Maybe Greece should start building fighter planes, it seems to be a lucrative business and they don't have to work as promised.
The F-16 was restricted in maneuverability because it had drop tanks under the wings, and it still soundly beat the F-35. The F-35 is hopeless.
What does this tell you about the shadow derivative industry that could be exposed? This is huge, for the good-guys, if Greece were to leave. However, it will NEVER happen because it would destroy the EU and many large banks and cause systematic failure across the world...yes tiny little Greece. We are truly international and there are no real borders, except perhaps China and Russia.
Great post. Really puts things in perspective. The cost of one fucking F35! It's amazing what we value.
Your numbers do not correspond to the Dec 2014 report from the Bank of International Settlements regarding the amount and nationality of owership of Greek debt....
And tell me what was the dollar amount that took Lehman out and froze up the liquidity of the US banks in 2008???
And isn't it interesting that the 5 US banks that hold greek debt... per BIS all trade on NYSE.... you know the one with the glitch the other day that was shut down.... they also hold derivates but that can not be quantified... at this time.
Also in the latest BIS report they expressed significate concern for the danger exposed by the shadow banking to the global finanical system... and concern they have expressed for some time now...
And isn't it interesting when you look for information online regarding the dollar amount these banks hold you get cut and copy reports written by these banks published in the media saying how there is nothing to see here.. move on..
So are you a bot troll here to blow smoke and disinformation up people's asses... because I am very unimpressed...
That makes two of us, I am not impressed with you either.
The system and loans were set up to FAIL. Now, the creditors want their Pound of Flesh.
When the Vote comes back , NOT TO ACCEPT" then Greece can start Fresh using the Islands as a Vacation Spot and live as they should. The New Government should do as the Population wants.....Folding , will not change anything.
"FREEDOM" sometimes has a cost.......If this was You....Would you suffer Short Term Pain for Future....
LONG TERM GAINS and I think, This , as a Wake up to the World ........................
http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/The.History.of.the.Money.Changers.htm
"Freedom" has a cost that can't be paid; look up the actual term, then name a single person that ever lived that had it, then look up enslaved and do the same; find one who is not...as it is written and so it is. Liberties, now that is a different ball-game.
Note #8 "Privatize electricity transmission grid"....Just who would get control of the Greeks electricity? This is to ensure that any deal will void incentives for Russia. I smell false flag distraction and multiple resignations in Greece political arena followed by a coup by night. Just like the Ukraine and the results, for the people, will be similar. Where is V. Nuland? Very close by I assure you; probably lurking in the dark.
A lot of the money loaned to Greece went right back to Germany and the rest if the EU for goods and services. The Mercedes factory was kept humming partially by orders from Greeks using German loans. $60,000 for a Mercedes might result in $10,000 profit for Mercedes after paying happy German workers and German parts suppliers the rest. Don't know how to apportion that factor but it is there.
You forgot to include the US in places the money went...
These conditions are insane. Greece, wake the fuck up! Default, print your own money, and get a life.
They have a Euro Printing press; fire that puppy up and do like all the Western Central Banking Cabals do; then declare yourself solvent. Make up some ridiculous lie that you had a "hidden surplus" and now everything is awesome. It only matters if it is sensational and so unbelievable, that it is believed...go for it while you can.
Roll out the Blankfein tanks. Declare Marshal law and auction off the 9 year old girls to the London Arisocracy. Bring in ISIS, ISIL, Al-Queda and the Moderate rebels to restore law and order. Load up the trucks with gold destined to the central bank of Brussels and kiss your dogs good-bye.
They ain't no Wealth Tax in the USA, UK, France, Scandinavia, Germany, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, or Italy/Spain/Portugal.
What they hell are they talking about?
1. Streamlining VAT (Okay VAT, but not Income Tax, comprende'?)
2. Broadening the tax base (pool Tax, Window Tax, what?)
Like we should believe the Germans would pay a wealth tax.
BAhahahahahahaha
Edit... Well Wikipedia shows a list of current examples that breaks my post:
Current examples
France: Solidarity
Spain: Patrimonio
India:
Netherlands:
Norway:
Switzerland:
What did the Greeks expect? Moar free money so they can continue spending as they have been?
They have a Euro Printing press; fire that puppy up and do like all the Western Central Banking Cabals do; then declare yourself solvent. Make up some ridiculous lie that you had a "hidden surplus" and now everything is awesome. It only matters if it is sensational and so unbelievable, that it is believed...go for it while you can.
Read The Water Thief to see just how horrendious the world can become if the TPP bastards get their way.
Tyranny!