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"It's Not Possible To Reach A Deal Today" - EU Summit Canceled As Leaders Scramble To Keep The Dr€am Alive
It was a weekend in which, according to traders, Greece facing an "absolutely final" was going to be saved. Instead, it may go down in history as the weekend in which the Eurozone finally split and its long-overdue disintegration began.
After yesterday's dramatic report that Germany, together with 5 other nations, are contemplating a "temporary" 5 year Grexit, it started to become clear that Schauble does indeed want to make an example of Greece (perhaps for France and Madame Frexit, perhaps for the rest of the European periphery where the recovery is so "strong", record youth unemployment still assures landslide anti-austerity and anti-Euro victories) and so he did, when the finmin meeting devolved into a total fiasco which ended in the most acrimonious manner yet, one where not even a statement was forthcoming.
The negotiation spilled over into today, where hours ago leader soundbites made it very clear that nothing would be resolve. Case in point, Finland's FinMin Stubb who said that while he is still hopeful "I think we’re very far away from the types of conditionality that we need. If this was a negotiation from one to 10, I think we’re still standing somewhere between 3 and 4. So making progress but not there yet. No one is blocking a deal, we’re all constructively trying to find a solution in a very difficult situation."
And just as we warned on Friday, when we said the proposed Greek offer would be nowhere near enough, so it was again confirmed: "The conditionality that has been presented by the Greeks is simply not enough at this stage. We need to have clear commitments, clear conditionality and clear proof that those conditions will be implemented at the end of the day."
Then it was Finland Prime Minister Juha Sipila who explained why Finland alongside many other nations including Germany, now are pushing for a Grexit: "proposals made by the Greek government on reforms it plans to undertake in return for a third bailout are not adequate as a starting point for negotiations with international creditors."
And why Greek hatred, focusing on the Germans for so long, now may have a new target: the pragmatic, efficient country of Finladn: "We don’t consider the Greek proposal at all sufficient for starting negotiations. Much must happen in order to advance. The Finnish government is unanimous on its stance on Greece."
Or as we said yesterday...
So when Microsoft fired thousands of Nokia employees it inadvertently started Grexit... pic.twitter.com/t28uCm8YP4
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) July 11, 2015
Also it is now clear that Tsipras' capitulation was all for nothing.
Even erstwhile Greek supporters Italy were dour: "We continue to work to establish the conditions to start negotiations, which is the real target - it’s not about closing a deal, it’s about starting negotiations,” Italian Finance Minister Pier Carlo Padoan tells reporters in Brussels. "We think that there are conditions to do that but let’s face it, the main obstacle to moving forward is lack of trust."
Italy's conclusion of what is needed: "I would like to see the Greek government to take concrete actions tomorrow in parliament to implement measures that are needed for Greece in the first place and then to rebuild trust and therefore allow concrete negotiations to move forward. We have lost so much time, we cannot afford to lose more time anymore. We’re talking about a very complicated program. ESM is complicated, it deals with structural reforms across the board, it deals with financing."
The only problem is that Greece likely won't have a government much longer, especially not when Tsipras is forced to tell his countrymen that the latest demands by the Eurogroup include at least one kidney. Assuming 79% of the Greeks were against the original Greek debt deal, at this point the only question is just how violent the government overthrow would be if and when Syriza tries to explain to the people just what is going on.
As for what happens today, well as Slovakia FinMin Peter Kazimir said quite simply earlier "it's not possible to reach deal today." What also happens is that all those EU-28members who had hope to meet in Brussels and savor some of that fine Belgium caterer product, were told to stay at home when European Council president Donald Tusk said that he had cancelled a planned meeting of EU heads of state and government this afternoon, even as a summit of euro zone leaders scheduled to continue until talks conclude on Greece. It may go on for a long, long time.
Tusk said in a tweet that the euro zone summit would start at 1600 CET (1400 GMT), an hour later than planned "and last until we conclude talks on Greece". Euro zone leaders were due to meet on Sunday, either to endorse a decision to open talks on a new bailout or, along with other EU leaders, to take steps to contain the fallout from a looming Greek bankruptcy.
Basically, all Europe has left now is hope: hope that Germany will change its mind in the last second and will backtrack on its demands. It got so bad that Luxembourg's foreign minister made a plea for Germany to avoid a Greek exit from the euro, warning Berlin of a catastrophic schism with France if it pushes for Athens to leave the currency union. The comments from Jean Asselborn, released on Sunday, came after Germany argued that Greece could take a five-year "time-out" from the euro zone and have some of its debts written off if Athens fails to improve proposals it has made for a bailout.
"It would be fatal for Germany's reputation in the EU and the world if Berlin does not now seize the chance that there now is with the Greek reform offers," Asselborn told Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.
"If Germany pushes for a Grexit, it will provoke a profound conflict with France. That would be a catastrophe for Europe," he added in an advance release of an interview to run in the Sueddeutsche's Monday edition.
So there is still hope, although if one looks at their faces...
... it is not much.

* * *
So where are we now? Sky News' Ed Conway has prepared a convenient list of "stream of consciousness" bullet points that effecttively summarize the situation:
Here are a few stream-of-consciousness thoughts about where we are, written at lunchtime on Sunday. They may be out-of-date by the time you read them. Then again, in the euro crisis, nothing ever seems to change all that much.
1. Today’s Absolutely Final deadline is no longer final.
There was lots of talk (from the President of the European Council among others) that Sunday’s leaders’ and EU leaders’ summit was the Very Last Opportunity to seal a deal or to throw Greece out of the euro. That seemed to make some sense?—?after all, not only are the Greek banks closed, the entire financial system seems to be about to run out of money. There’s only so long you can run an economy without a fully-functioning banking system.
However, at yesterdays’ eurogroup meeting (that’s the euro finance ministers) it emerged that the decision on a deal may be put off for another few days. Sources said that the financial outflows were not so bad last week, and that the Greek banking system could survive for another few days. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen.
2. One big problem is trust
This is both good news and bad. Good because it signifies that in terms of the proposals for a bailout deal, there is no longer much distance between the two sides. Having persuaded his people to vote in last weekend’s referendum against the deal proposed by the creditors, he has subsequently signed up to the vast majority of its strictures. So the two sides now, finally, largely agree on the kind of austerity that needs to be imposed (cuts to pension bills, liberalising monopolies and nationalised industries, raising VAT and removing exemptions, including on the islands etc). The problem is that no-one believes that Greece will actually go through with the reforms?—?especially after all the surprises, disappointments and broken promises of the past few weeks and months. That is why there is talk of waiting until the Greek parliament has actually passed some of these measures before giving the final go-ahead to new bailout talks.
3. The other big problem is domestic politics
Midway through yesterday’s finance minister’s meeting, it emerged that Finland’s government was close to collapse, as the second-biggest party, the True Finns, were dead set against handing any extra cash to Greece. There were also extremely hawkish comments coming from the German and Slovakian teams. It’s a reminder that around the Eurozone many countries are simply sick and tired of handing money to Greece. The largely centrist leaders in Spain and Italy, who face upsurgent anti-euro parties back home, are desperate to prove to the electorate that voting in a party like Syriza is the worst thing they could do. The more Greece suffers (preferably with wall-to-wall coverage across the European broadcast media) the more likely their voters are to think twice about voting for Podemos or Beppe Grillo.
To put it another way, in order to get a deal, politicians will have to risk losing at least some votes (maybe lots of them) back home. And no politicians like that.
4. Crazy ideas are now mainstream
A few years ago it was forbidden to talk about the possibility that a country could leave the euro. That taboo was overcome a few years ago at the Cannes G20. Now some finance ministers are openly discussing how it would be done. The big story out of yesterday’s eurogroup was that Germany has been throwing around an idea of a temporary Grexit?—?that Greece could leave the single currency for five years, restructure its debt and re-join when it is in better health. The problem with such an idea is that “temporary” changes in currency regimes almost always turn out to be permanent. Take the UK leaving the ERM in 1992, or leaving the gold standard in 1931, or the US closing the gold window in 1971. All were described as temporary. Many might have even believed that at the time. Ultimately, they were nothing of the sort.
Anyway, what seems more likely is that this plan is a mischievous attempt at brinksmanship. And, even if it never comes to pass, it is going down brilliantly back home with the German electorate [see point 3].
5. The cancellation of the full EU leaders’ summit is neither a good nor a bad thing
There was originally supposed to be a euro leaders and then a full EU summit today?—?the idea presumably being that if Grexit was indeed likely, the whole of the EU might need to sign off both on that and the consequent humanitarian aid that might be needed. Now the EU summit has been cancelled?—?mainly because after last night’s nine hour marathon of talks it is clear that there will be no straightforward conclusion from the eurogroup, and hence the leaders won’t simply be coming into town to sign a piece of paper and then leave.
6. Best-case scenario: eurofudge
Of course, the pie-in-the-sky best-case scenario involves Greece getting a deal immediately and going home and successfully implementing it. But a more realistic scenario is probably going to involve a characteristic euro fudge.
The euro finance ministers could agree to begin bailout talks on the pre-condition that Greece implements a number of austerity/reform proposals in the next few days. This would be endorsed by the leaders, unanimously. Then, the European Central Bank confirms that because talks are now ongoing (as opposed to frozen) it can loosen conditions on Greece’s banks (though they won’t open for some time either way). The eurogroup confirms the bailout talks are underway in yet another meeting or teleconference later on this week. Note that there is no longer any hope of getting a full bailout signed off?—?the best that can be done is to begin formal negotiations for another bailout. All because the last deal expired a couple of weeks ago.
7. Worst-case scenario: eurodisaster
The worst-case scenario for both sides involves Greece leaving the euro. Quite how this happens is anyone’s guess, though Germany’s eurosabbatical paper yesterday underlined that despite the fact that the EU Treaties don’t have a clause to allow it, Grexit is absolutely feasible. It would begin with a breakdown of today’s talks, with a complete split in the eurogroup and euro leaders’ meeting between those who believe Greece’s departure is good news for the euro (Germany, Finland etc) and those who think it would be a disaster (France, Italy etc).
Rather than coming out and waving a piece of paper saying Greece is heading back to the drachma, the process might be more subtle and imperceptible: Athens might be allowed to print its own euro-denominated instruments; it might be allowed to print scrip; it might simply not be allowed to get extra liquidity from the ECB and be forced to nationalise its banks.
But though it might not begin with one big moment of fanfare, a departure would be messy, would provoke a further default by Greece on its debts to the IMF, the ECB and other euro nations. They would be pursued in the courts for decades for some sort of payback. Questions would arise over the future of the single currency. If the remaining members do not commit to big-scale further integration (a single Treasury, fiscal union) they will leave the door open for further departures in the coming years. Markets would plunge, not just in the Eurozone but everywhere around the world. Greece would almost certainly be out of the euro forever, however much the move would be branded initially as temporary.
* * *
Good luck Europe, judging by the suddenly surging Bitcoin price, you need it now more than ever.
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I wonder if the Euro "bureaucrats" can drag this out another 5 years?
Down the toilet like Lonmin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5TFSQMtNs0
Is Finladn any relation to BinLaden?
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Spending less than your income is austerity.
If the Greeks think that staying within the Eurozone and complying with Germany’s requirements means austerity, they are about to find out what austerity really means should they decide not to comply.
Deprive the Greeks of that sweet, sweet German Bundesregierungkaese and they will come begging for readmission and it won’t take 5 years for them to figure it out.
None of this latest shit matters.
Greece is broke and will never pay back what it owes
And the Germans won't give any more money to them now should they.
So Grrext already and git'r done!
GREECE HAS THE HIGHEST CREDIT RATING OF ANY COUNTRY IN EUROPE YOU RETARDE FUCK.
GERMANY HAS IN FACT THE LOWEST.
SO SHUT YOUR STUPID FUCKONG MOUTH YOU STUPID FUCKING IDIOT.
Fuck you
Highest credit rating... You fucking mook...
Oh yeah, THAT'S WHY THEIR BANKS ARE CLOSED YOU STUPID ASS.
Tylers poster "Total Chaos" on twitter yesterday. I don't think anyone knows whats going to happen even one day into the future. The whole system is shattering in a most mysterious way.
"It's Grrreat!"
-Tony the Tiger from Frosted Flakes the Motion Picture.
There is no financial solution so Finance Minister's are the wrong people looking to solve this. This is now an EU structural problem, a Greece structural problem. Finance Minister's now just sort throught the trash and figure out what they did wrong and how best they can recover from it. Get the right people on the job.
Added later: One thing my post does not consider is that the money, the big money, was already made on this whole charade, whether it be the previous high interest on bonds and/or the sell or transfer of those bonds to taxpayers, mostly German, when they became a known liabilty. You can thank CBs, IMF (et al) courtesy of Goldman Sax for increasing your tax burden. All nonelected players. Point, maybe there are no right people for the job as the job is accomplished and the Greek and German citizens left wondering what just happened.
If Greece gets booted, what comes of it membership in NATO? I'm sure that Russia or China would gladly pay a pretty (Euro) penny to have a military base in that neck of the woods.
Down the toilet like Lonmin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5TFSQMtNs0
Down the toilet like Lonmin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5TFSQMtNs0
http://www.hangthebankers.com/how-greece-was-robbed-by-the-bankers/
How Greece was robbed by the bankers
Every single mainstream media has the following narrative for the economic crisis in Greece: the government spent too much money and went broke; the generous banks gave them money, but Greece still can’t pay the bills because it mismanaged the money that was given. It sounds quite reasonable, right?
Except that it is a big fat lie … not only about Greece, but about other European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland who are all experiencing various degrees of austerity.
It was also the same big, fat lie that was used by banks and corporations to exploit many Latin American, Asian and African countries for many decades.
Greece did not fail on its own. It was made to fail.
In summary, the banks wrecked the Greek government, and then deliberately pushed it into unsustainable debt … while revenue-generating public assets were sold off to oligarchs and international corporations. The rest of the article is about how and why.
If you are a fan of mafia movies, you know how the mafia would take over a popular restaurant. First, they would do something to disrupt the business – stage a murder at the restaurant or start a fire. When the business starts to suffer, the Godfather would generously offer some money as a token of friendship. In return, Greasy Thumb takes over the restaurant’s accounting, Big Joey is put in charge of procurement, and so on. Needless to say, it’s a journey down a spiral of misery for the owner who will soon be broke and, if lucky, alive.
Now, let’s map the mafia story to international finance in four stages.
Stage 1: The first and foremost reason that Greece got into trouble was the “Great Financial Crisis” of 2008 that was the brainchild of Wall Street and international bankers. If you remember, banks came up with an awesome idea of giving subprime mortgages to anyone who can fog a mirror. They then packaged up all these ticking financial bombs and sold them as “mortgage-backed securities” for a huge profit to various financial entities in countries around the world.
A big enabler of this criminal activity was another branch of the banking system, the group of rating agencies – S&P, Fitch and Moody’s – who gave stellar ratings to these destined-to-fail financial products. Unscrupulous politicians such as Tony Blair joined Goldman Sachs and peddled these dangerous securities to pension funds and municipalities and countries around Europe. Banks and Wall Street gurus made hundreds of billions of dollars in this scheme.
But this was just Stage 1 of their enormous scam. There was much more profit to be made in the next three stages!
[...]
You are a funny guy, Vinny.
What? Like a clown? Like I fucking amuse you? What the fuck is so funny about me?
"So tell me, when did you see the two yutes robbing the world blind?"
They'll find somethingn to hang a prayer on before the Asian markets open.
Or not.
"Frau Merkel has massive bowel movement in Brussels. Futures are up on the news."
Damn that Phil guy was right!
the thought is nauseating
You are talking about the process documented by John Perkins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
This "process" is not happening on it's own, like a rain or an earthquake, so there is no one responsible and there is no one to punish.
This process of systemic parasitism is created, controlled and benefited from by the chosenites.
And Perkins only exposes the sympthoms, not the disease -- and he can't be blamed for it, look what happened to John F. Kennedy.
Another example and a particular case of parasitims is slavery, which again is not an objective, natural process since it has concrete names behind it:
Jewish Involvement In Black Slave TradeTo The Americas: http://www.rense.com/general69/invo.htm
P.S.
Earth is not a planet, it's a place. And this place is a prison for goyim nations.
At least they've solved the China crisis. No news is good news, yes?
The ONLY way to save the Euro and Europeans at this point, is to have a Northern and a Southern Euro.
The south can then also act as a buffer zone, and keep all the illegals streaming in. This works (sort of) in other places in the world, with its Hot/Cold divide.
I'm confident they'll sort it all out on the back 9 at Caves Valley.
Wow. This is really real.
Finland's FinMin Stubb who said that while he is still hopeful "I think we’re very far away from the types of conditionality that we need. If this was a negotiation from one to 10, I think we’re still standing somewhere between 3 and 4. So making progress but not there yet. No one is blocking a deal, we’re all constructively trying to find a solution in a very difficult situation."
.....standing somewhere between 3 and 4.
That is the clarity we all need to move forward with this shit show.
These clowns remind me of the NCAA. They are a bunch of blowhard hack apparatchiks, pulling down massive salaries for their bloviating. They speak big, and act like a bunch of tough guys. But any time they are confronted with taking any kind of real action they back down like a bunch of pussies. But then to try to convince themselves of how tough they are they find the smallest kid on the playground and spend a couple hours roughing him up, while one of them hides the kid's crutches. So, they want to be tough on Greece to send a message to France? What a joke! Jerry Tarkanian was right. "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." We all know that Cleveland State is now the home of the Acropolis.
Bingo...
"If the remaining members do not commit to big-scale further integration (a single Treasury, fiscal union) they will leave the door open for further departures in the coming years." (or months)
D'land has had this one on ice since 2011:
"Dr Pippa Malmgren, a former economic advisor to George W. Bush and a former advisor to Deutsche Bank. According to Malmgren, Germany has already ordered the printing of Deutsche Marks in anticipation of a possible withdrawal from the EU."
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/germany-already-printing-money%E2%8...
How the cascading dominoes of derivative defaults plays out could be exciting. Perhaps enough neueDmarken have been printed to cover DBs 75bn(+) position...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-28/elephant-room-deutsche-banks-75...
So, will the Germans be buying their own stuff with these Douche Marks?
Please let this end today!
"Oh if I only had a brain" (errr, Navy...to repo Crete)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nauLgZISozs
There will be NO GREXIT ever.
Tsipras, please stop the acting.
Merkel, please stop the acting.
You people are henchmen of the Rothschilds.
I bet you will NEVER officially declare a Grexit.
You may say you're preparing or a Grexit, or getting ready for a Grexit, or bracing for a Grexit, or whatever the bullshit from the asshole of the Rothschilds that is situated in between their heads (no, these are not wisemen, these are charlatans, there were people far wiser and far more intelligent than these bankers), but you will NEVER DARE to officially declare a Grexit and make it real once and for all.
So, cut the crap and stop the stupid chase.
The 1st step back for the hegemon in decline is always a big deal.
I beg to differ. The Rothschilds allowed Lehman Brothers (a bank that they controlled) to go bankrupt in order to bring about the TARP program and consolidate the big banks in the US even more than they were before. Why wouldn't they allow Greece (a country that they control) to go bankrupt in order to bring about more consolidation in the banking system worldwide and further their control? Not to mention it would probably mean that they could finally put Deutsche Bank forward as their "sacrificial lamb" like they've been preparing it for the past couple of years.
FYI... Last night a Rothschild stayed in a Hilton.
Not in Paris, but you never know about a 2-for-1 deals with these people. Theirs is the morality of Rulers, not the Ruled, after all.
There was a wedding/merger some days ago in London, Kensington Palace.
I used to think if I wished hard enough that I could make things not happen.
Mutti has spoken. It's over.
On to Italy and Spain.
Mutti has spoken of what?
That he's going to start eating chapati for breakfast every day from now on?
Bring it on.
And keep track of the EUR/USD.
I bet with all the talk of -xit of whatever country involved, it will still be trading at a premium to the dollar.
Hitze frei?
Why didn't Greece pull the Pelosi "you have to pass the bailout package to find out what reforms are in it" trick.
I want to say "because they still have a sense of shame," but we know that's not true.
(duplicate deleted)
BECAUSE NEXT IN LINE IS ITALY YOU FUCKING DOPE!
This is very bullish news. Stocks up 1% tomorrow.
Gold down 30, hammer time
ALL EURO DENOMINATED DEBT PUT ON CREDIT WATCH TO BE DOWNGRADED BY ALL RATINGS AGENCIES.
Move along...
So are they going to give another deadline for next Sunday? The absoultly the last day for another propoal? Just to keep this $h1tshow going? The markets will rocket higher again next week?
Yeah no shit. Last Sunday was supposed to be the end of the line when the referendum went oxi.
How dare the Greeks vote NO in the finest democracy known as the EU?
Now Greeks must agree to be serfs of the EU for the next decade or two. They are being made an example to deter Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy and France from following them.
Evil banksters win again. Freedom loses.
Vampire Banks Will Suck Greece DryThe popular line that Greeks need to pay the price for their years of profligacy and learn fiscal discipline is, as Varoufakis observes, cover for the euro-elites’ efforts to force European tax-payers to bail out yet again the recklessness of their nation’s banks. That is why the “debt relief” for Greece is helping the banks rather than ordinary Greeks.
After the 2008 financial crash, the banks had to be saved from their reckless lending to individuals through deeply unpopular bail-outs (so-called QE, or “quantitative easing”).
Now that the banks are exposed to the debts caused by their equally reckless lending to whole nations, led by Greece but also including Spain, Portugal, Ireland and others, they need another massive bailout. But rightly that won’t wash with European taxpayers, so the euro-elites have distracted us with the idea that only through austerity can Greece be rehabilitated and fixed.
The problem, however, is that the financial sector is what really needs restructuring and rehabilitating. It has been simply buying time since the 2008 crash to keep on with its profoundly self-destructive practices, destroying not only individual families’ lives but whole nations, while a tiny elite suck out their wealth like besuited vampires.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/vampire-banks-will-suck-greece-dry/5461957
I know I'm a contrarian. But if I were them, it wouldn't scare me to stay in line, but to realize the scumbags we are dealing with. It would make me more than ever ready to break the chains. But then again I like rooting for all underdogs.
But thats why Greece needs to default and storm out. it would be on its own resources but it would be free of Brussels, Bankers, even Rothchilds if thats the bee in your bonnet, and socialists.
It was "Amin."
I think maybe Tsipras is a genius, he's going out making it look like he bent over backwards and tried to do the impossible to make a deal but the Troika would not go for it. Building on this he can go out of the EU and lay the groundwork for Syriza to be the main party with people assured there was no other way
NOW HE'LL BE BLAMED TOO!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The Nightmare continues!
As Greece moves towards the ECB and Germany so the ECB and Germany move away from Greece.
That's what they call compromise.
That guy in the bottom picture truly does resemble Yoda.
Or they might say , you could have taken same exact deal 2 weeks earlier before spending more money we don't have on a meaningless referendum. And then hang him upside down at an Esso station.
I didn't go into the bar that night to fall in love. Just stopped in for a few drinks.
And suddenly...THERE SHE WAS!
I was captivated! ENTRANCED! I asked the guy next to me to pinch me to make sure I wasn't dreaming. (Man suddenly eases away from weirdo at the bar.)
I didn't think I'd get my chance to even meet her...but that night FATE WAS ON MY SIDE. (GREECE TAKES ON IN THE BACK!)
--set piece dance scene from movie Airplane to song Staying Alive by the brothers Gibb.
Omg this fiasco is still going on? Exit already!
"The worst-case scenario for both sides involves Greece leaving the euro."
Why is that?
Now comes the part where the Euro-bureaucrats beg Germany not to eliminate their jobs. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!
ALLL IN THE NAME OF SAVING EUROPE TOO!
"TO THE EASTERN FRONT YOU FUCKING PANSIES! OR NOTHING BUT ISIS FOR YOU!"
Dow, S&P, and NASDAQ close green tomorrow. Gold and Silver close down, because...u know...why not, right? One, or more, Fed Govs come out tomorrow and talk about a rate hike as early as September, with another before year end. Yada yada yada.... Rinse and Repeat.
Tspiras may step down this week, snap election called and Varoufakis leads Syriza to a landslide win.
Varoufuckis is a Soros' plant.
He agreed back in 23th of February to PAY ALL THE DEBTS and SIGNED IT with his right hand.
Wake up unless you support the Hedge Fund Hyenas.
Do you know if V-fak had his fingers crossed?
The EZ is losing credibility every time it declares a deadline.
...and this time I mean it!
All my buddies feel sorry for the Greek people but believe that it's all their own fault for not tightening their belts and repaying "their" debts....
The irony is that me and my buddies are all from Dublin..
At this stage I just just chuckle to myself...iv given up trying to explain stuff to those that refuse to understand....
Now....I'm off for a few Sunday pints...can't wait to see what farcical fudge deal they come up with...Lol...
Death to the EU...
Cheers!
"Basically, all Europe has left now is hope..."
Huh, apparently hope is a strategy. /s
Seems to work here, sofar.
Got the chimp elected twice
Did Ronald Reagan work with him back in his movie star daze?
Something about bedtime for somebody...
Works for elections.
I don't give investment advice but ...
Every precious metal investor, would probably do well to put a small fraction of there portfolio into Bitcoin.
Because if Bitcoin goes big it could be the investment of the century.. The Risk/Reward perspective is extremely favourable right now.
I don't police comment threads, but...
you're a shill, and a notably ineffective one, at that.
...but if I did it would be Dos Equis.
Stay thirsty my friend.
I'll have pecans on that fudge please.
"Good luck Europe, judging by the suddenly surging Bitcoin price, you need it now more than ever."
Into each life a little rain must fall...
"On Tuesday, the biggest Bitcoin transaction ever made was loaded on to theblockchain, the publicly viewable ledger that records every instance of the cryptocurrency changing hands. It was 999 kilobytes in size, taking up an entire packet of transaction data, or “block,” and when it went out, a user in the Bitcoin developer chatroom remarked, “RIP Bitcoin.”
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-mystery-behind-the-biggest-bitcoin-...
I would think Greeks are going to abandon bitcoin when they realise you can not inflate it by printing more bitcoins.
The Devolution will not be televised.
Some very pertinent points to keep in mind:
- Since for nearly the last 200 years Greece has failed economically and fiscally to honour its debts, how on Earth can you expect them to get anything done, and done correctly in the next 5 years, assume this temporary Greek exit nonsense?
- After all is said and done, do not forget, Greece still has a corrupt economic system that they will not change, for instance, will the Greek government take away the Spinster Pension, where there are 40,000 daughters of politicians who because they can not get married will have a pension for life? Will they stop protecting non existant jobs, like gardeners (in the case of one Athens hospital, 45 of them), are giving work where there are NON EXISTANT gardens? So will any of this be fixed?
- To this point in time, Greece has been given some 320 Billion Euros in debt. This amounts to some nearly 100,000 Euros per household in Greece. Think about that, every single household in Greece has been given a free home till now! So how much more must we give to Greece, the world has given them a home, what now, luxury cars, life time pensions? Its time Greece learnt the true cost of life.
- France, Italy and Spain are next follow. You give Greece a 5 year exit, how many years exit will Italy require? Or France?
- Greece is a failed state. Has been since they left the Ottomans, about 200 years ago. They have never been able to run anything, why should they be in the EU at all? Greece is not just a liability, its a nation of dead-beats and bums. Greece shouldn't be given a Greek Exit, IT SHOULD BE SHOVED OUT THE DOOR! A message must be sent to France and especially Italy!
For the record. I am an Italian national. And we have serious problems in Italy. You think Greece has waste, I can tell you horror stories about Italy. Our police to turn a blind eye to drugs been sold on our buses. 10% of all the buildings in Italy are abandoned, and yet the Italian state put refugees in hotels. There is not a single theatre in all of Italy that runs on a profit, not even La Scala! There isn't a single museum that runs on a profit. Everything is supported by taxes. I can go on and on.
AS AN ITALIAN, I PRAY GERMANY GOES HARD AGAINST GREECE. THEN ITALY WILL PANIC, AND MAYBE OUT OF FEAR SOMETHING GOOD WILL HAPPEN HERE. The communists like Renzi are destroying Italy. Please I ask all of Germany, don't listen to Renzi, he is an imbecile! The solution to this nightmare is to hold the communists and socialists to account for their criminal ways.
KICK GREECE OUT OF THE EU. WE IN ITALY NEED TO LEARN THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN. Otherwise nothing will change, and economically we will all collapse!
Greece must be forced out of the EU...for the sake of the remaining EU members. Germany, Finland and those other nations, hold on fast, don't give in to the maniacs in France, Italy and Spain!
Well said.
But dream on those Italians dumb f*cks will also never learn.
Maybe it's time all EU members stand on their own two feet and stop using their EU neighbors as a credit line and a crutch for bad governance.
Most excellent points Cold-P, if you are looking at things from a zioviewpoint. See the thing is the same people who say what you say about that speck in the others eyes, have rather large planks in their own. Tell me why the jew bankers shouldn't honor their debts also? And there are many instances where they haven't. The last big heist was called TARP here in the US. About a trillion and then several fucking years of zero interest besides to further fuck up the commodity markets and send stocks to the moon. And yet those fucking Greeks, damn they must be the biggest thieves in the world for welching on a few billion and providing some fake jobs where there are none to be had otherwise. I suppose they should just wind up those bulldozers and start scraping people into the ditches right?
@usednabused:
The underlining sentiments about banking and central banking in particular I can fully appreciate your point of view, and would undoubtedly agree with you on most things about that. However, PLEASE keep in mind that there is a parallel problem in the world today, and that is the communistic philosophy, which I include Socialism and Liberalism. As a Classical Libertarianist, the problem I am targeting is the lack of respect that communists have for freedom, liberty and hard work that should be valued more than equality and social engineering. We have an economic world where the elitists, whom I call Pretarians, who think that they can control the masses through their god-like egos. What we must all unite and fight for, is democracy, and the Classical Libertarian ideals where all people have right to their freedom and liberty, and that hard work should be rewarded and not punished with punative taxes that only incourage people to not work, alla Greeks. The Central Banks are working together as a criminal syndicate, that I truely believe. But to get control of the Central Banks, we need to fix government first. That is what I am targeting. usednabused we need to educate the world and inform the world of the better ways we can live. First step is, governments and populaces must learn to take responsibility. Alla Greece, they need to be forced out of the EU, and they must fend for themselves. They will soon learn that providing these idiotic pensions can not be done. But for as long as they are in the EU, they will see cow they can milk for free.
As for scrapping people in the ditches, please, lets not get too melodramatic. There are many lunatics out there who would take those words of yours seriously. But the economic system the Greeks use, that can be bulldozed into the Aegian!
With respect usednabused, use your anger to stand up and say NO! No to the communists and no to the facists. Its time that people stood and said no! Use your anger usednabused not for good, for there is no such thing, use it so that these cowardly communists and facists understand that they can't just have things their way. Say no, be angry, show your hatred...there is nothing wrong with that! Communists and fascists need to understand that they are hated, and rightfully so!
"Communists and fascists need to understand that they are hated, and rightfully so!"
and so do the ziobankers.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with you. All need to man up and accept some responsibility. Only thing is someone has to be first. Who's that going to be? Bankers? LOL we both know thats bullshit. See, they already got their big fucking bailout with the TARP program, and yes that included many of your euro banks too. SO now that theyre whole again due to their fucking theft, others are supposed to be first and set the example for the world, manning up, and doing whats right?
You're a smart guy, wake up and see whats going on and who's pulling the wool over your eyes. You may notice its those zio's....
Greece is getting a swirlie on the way out of the euro.
Two Sundays ago was the final deadline, except it wasn't. A no vote was a vote to exit the Euro, except not. This Sunday was the final deadline, except it's not. It's no wonder the Greeks kept pushing.
A few commenters here said they were going to stop reading Greek stories until something finally fucking happened. They are what you call the smart ones. I glance all of these go nowhere stories just to read the comments. Not Tyler's fault...just a fucking saga that is going nowhere in a hurry.
It would be moar exciting if we got back to Greco-Turk warfare.
Greece is a failed state because it has a failed culture & society.
Greece has been this way LOOOOONG before the creation of the EU.
Greece has been this way LOOOOONG before Greece FRAUDULENTLY joined the EZ in order to steal money from creditors under deceit of borrowing.
The EU should:
1. Declare Greece a failed state, impose a technocrat government from the EU in Greece, and impose martial law in Greece.
2. Have a team of forensic accountants find out and publish ALL the frauds that went into joining the EZ, hunt down and then execute all the perpetrators of the fraud.
3. Have a team of forensic accountants hunt down where ALL the "borrowed" money was sent by thieving Greek government officials SINCE JOINING the EZ, and then execute all the perpetrators of the theft.
USA could easily be switched for Greece in your rant.
Martial law was tried and failed in Greece.
You got that right. We love to point out faults everywhere except for ourselves and we discover that we are no better and often worse.
Greece and USA are similar but Greece is far worse and much more advanced in socialism and government corruption disease than USA is right now.
One of the best ways of waking up the muppets and slowing the progress of the socialism cancer spreading around the world is to totally destroy Greece economically to make an example of them for the rest of the world, USA included.
USA is running on momentum now. It is slowing and will eventually come to a halt. Big things can run a long time on momentum but do eventually stop. Greece just smaller and lighter
Muppet momentum.
You are kidding, right? Form a technocratic government? It was the technocrats that got Greece into trouble in the first place. It was the technocrats that allowed Goldman Sachs to cook the financial books so as to allow Greece to enter the EU. By the way, Greece already hired all the forensic accountants to follow the fraud trail. This is why Greece has declared all the previous EU debts to be odious and therefore, under international law, null and void.
Maybe the EU should let Greece issue 'negative interest rate' bonds - like Germany and others - that way the Greeks could rollover their debt into these new bonds and make money just like the banksters.
This is Chinese water-drip torture, I've had enough... Greece just needs to exit, the sun will still rise the next day...If you rely on others to solve your problems, you are a fool!...
Before the Referendum I still believed in the common sense of the Greek People
that they surely could see through the lies of Varoufakis and that stupid smirking Tsipras.
Who the fuck would believe anything these two Idiots are doing and saying ?
Well I thought the Greek people are too smart to fall for fraudsters and liars,
but then again they have had the last 20 years voting for corrupt governments.
This brings me to the conclusion that the only thing to do now is cut Greece loose.
How can anyone trust Greece to pay anything back when they are in default already
and don't even try to pay the €1.55 billion on June 30, debt payments they owe to IMF ?
Greece needs to be kicked out of the EU.
The EU has to look after all the members and Greece is a Euroscepyic state when it suits them,
why should the Eurozone change the rules just for Greece ?
Enough already with the greek soap-opera.
Greek People had their chance and 61% voted NO to the EU and yes to a radical
lying corrupt regime that can never be trusted.
Who would trust two faced Tsipras and that lying snake Varoufakis after
all the shit they come up with since they have been elected...
not once but twice, by Greeks who voted NO.
NO it will be !
NO MORE EU taxpayer funded handouts for the lying two-faced Greeks !
WR.)
You have your point of view but from what I read so far Varoufakis said from the beginning Greece is broke, has no money to pay this huge mountain of debt and the more debt they incur will be to repay outstanding debt and very little go to Greece.
Looks like you were lied to as well by your EuroMasters.
The whole European Union idea went too far. Every time I hear Nigel Farage speak at those meetings and see the faces of those sitting there. He appears to speak truth while the rest just wish he were gone, like an annoying fly on a cows back.
The whole European Union idea went too far ?
The European Union, like it or not, is a reality with 500 million People in it
and even the UK could not function without it.
But I gather that is hard to understand for anglophile Thatcherite Eurosceptics,
who have been wishing for Europe to just disappear
ever since Charlemagne, also known as Charles the Great or Charles I, was King of the Franks who
united most of Western Europe during the early Middle Ages and laid the foundations for modern France and Germany.
Charlemagne Died: January 28, 814 AD, Aachen, Germany The European Union has existed far longer than some other more recent ones like the UK or US for example. The European Union is not a project or an Idea, it is actual a fact and a Reality in all aspects of Life on this planet. Some alien dinosaurs like Nigel Farage might dispute that. he will smoke himself to death soon, the way he carries on. listen all you Euro-sceptics: what would you be without Europe? just another failed state, as the Greek will soon find out! and soon perhaps the UK... also Cameron fights hard not to loose his meal-ticket. he knows that the financial centre of Europe is Frankfurt am Main, as do most Euro-sceptics, and jealousy is a real curse for some.WR:)
Dear White Rose, lest you forget, your miracle recovery was financed on the back of forgiven debt and a generous Marshall Plan. The world decided not to repeat the terrible errors of the Versailles Treaty 30 years before, and graciously supported German reconstruction. Der Alt Stadt of Frankfurt am Main was an extraordinarally beautiful place, that is, before the Allies carpet bombed it to smithereens. Of course this was the inevitable response to the Third German Reich's utter madness, as it forged its own rough version of mercantilist hegemony throughout Europe, north, east, west, and south. Ten years later more than forty million people were dead and entire nations lay ravaged and devastated.
The reek of death and destruction, ruin, and collapse lay all about. And though treasures like the Old City of Frankfurt were lost forever an repeated in many other lands, there was a far more profound loss that lay at the feet of megalomaniacal Germany and the entire world. It was the utter destruction of the notion of civilization, of civilized humanity, of the murderous evil that still inhabited the heart of man.
Now you must ponder Greece. Your attacks on the Greek people echo the uniform hatred spit at the Germans after WWII. Once again, the phenomenal work ethic of German citizens has raised up your country and brought it wealth, security, and envy. You would do well to reconsider 1914 and 1939 again and ask if it is not now time that Germany truly rethink its role in Europe. If Deutschland wants to be admired for its successes and accomplishments, perhaps it is time to lead not with its ledgers, efficiency, engineering, and what sometimes appear to the rest of the world as small mindedness, but instead to find a more noble route.
A Union by diktat is a fearful thought. If Germans proceed to display to the rest of Europe and the world their worst qualities they will have utterly failed in their efforts to bring the disparate cultures of Europe together in fraternity in order to remake the continent as a place where war and fractiousness have been left behind. Continue to flail a small country such as Greece to rack and ruin, irrespective of that nation's culpability and bad behavior, and you will destroy the very thing you cherish, a peaceful and united Europe.
Dreaming about Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire is the very last notion that should enter your mind. Mark my word, if the Germans and their northern allies do not open their eyes and look in the mirror to see what the world is witnessing today in the manner they are dealing with Greece, you will have not only have destroyed the European Union, you will set back the peace of Europe for a hundred years.
P.S. My family is from Frankfurt. My mother was married in the Dom in 1939. My great grandfather was the founder of the Hessische Staats Gaswerke. I know that of which I speak.
5 reasons NATO fears a Grexit
Son, NATO has been on life support for 20 years. Time to euthanize that zombie.
If you leave the Russians' front porch, I do not think they will invade anyone. They have no need to.
Russia is REALLY BIG. If they get an invasion itch, they can invade some portion of their vast territory and declare victory.
ZATO is now an anachronism.
But war!
Schauble looks like he has fallen through a time hole from 1940 and is pissed that he is missing out on all the fun at home.
Ha! Ha! Enjoy you new adventures in poverty, Kina!
"I could haff been Gauleiter of Munich!"
Nations like Finland, Netherlands, Lithuania, etc., could afford to be meek & compliant so long as Germany was 'strong'. But once Frau Merkel went full-menopausal, they had to step up & drop the hammer. Now we see where the strong hands are.
Greece is done, and Europe will be well-rid of that siphylis-deranged whore.
Time to un-hitch their wagons, and move forward with the business of freedom & prosperity.
And whats with the extreme arrogance of Germany ffs?
So it is very clear now that Germany considers Spain, Portugal and Greece as mere smaller states within Germany, and not independent sovereign countries. Schauble thinks Germany has somehow had some military victory over Greece and now owns the country and its parliament.
I can't wait for them to start shooting Greek citizens in the street until Parliament passes his laws.
Note to Kina. Spain, France and Italy are feckless losers who would do well to submit to the fourth reich.
You are safe down under. Stash your stuff and a couple of firearms in the outback and you will be OK.
If Gregory Peck shows up in a submarine, you will not be OK.
Im in Australian with cash, gold, silver, property a long way away from the madness that is Europe.
Goverment as master= slavery
Government as servant???
LOL...
I am confused...which country is threatening and blackmailing which country in this part of the "negotiations" ?
Well the next stage of the game should be for Tsipras to talk with his colleagues about a total default and immediate exit from teh Euro, Nationalisation of banks. That there is no logner any negotiable solution that wont utterly destroy the people and economy of Greece, and give it any prospect of recovery for the current generation.
Just to see the reactions.
.
.
What with other countries now "strong arming" Germany to "give in",
I would me most entertained if
Germany threatened to GO GALT and leave the EuroZone and EU.
Would be about F'king time.
Further my post on the probable cost of a Grexit; there is the additional geopolitical risk of Greece's alignment to Putin/China/Bric axis.
Apparently Putin is attending an important BRIC meeting today.
Greece is the natural port for China's entry into EU. Also if Greece goes into chaos, the Jihadist menace from Syria and Libya gets multiplied for import of clandestine refugees.
Muttti has to take ALL this into consideration before she says NEIN once more to Greek bail out.
TRUST is the new operative word and POLITICIANS and Bankers are using it!!
It is game sooooooo OVER!
Banker trust = make sure those that owe you will continue to pay you, even from the grave.
WTF is a temporary exit???? If you got back on your feet why would you ever want to go back to those criminals? Is this some sort of trick to keep all the derivatives from blowing up? And what about all those derivatives we keep hearing about? Did Greece not actually default? Do they just push the shit under the rug and turn the derivatives market into an even bigger laughing stock than the equity non-markets?
Once again, the rules only apply to us peons.
Somebody has a ridiculous belief that Greece will learn to be good Euroslaves after being cut loose for a while.
Maybe they will be sent to Debt Re-hab.
The Eurocrats will do anything to keep their jet-setting lifestyle.
No country will be allowed to exit the Euro.
"I think we’re very far away from the types of conditionality that we need. If this was a negotiation from one to 10, I think we’re still standing somewhere between 3 and 4. So making progress but not there yet. No one is blocking a deal, we’re all constructively trying to find a solution in a very difficult situation."
So what's a 1 on the scale of 1-10? A group of people cursing and throwing their feces at each other?
Let the shoe throwing start !
They bought these underdeveloped economies into the Euro to weaken it, and in the knowledge that they could easily become basket cases, and thus weaken the euro even more. Wonderful for Germany, you can see why it was a plan, and Greece was lied into the program by their Goldman Sachs operatives.
Germany has got fuck all to complain about, it has made hundreds of billions in extra trade because the Euro is a whole lot weaker than the DM. Yet these weak economies have been raped by a currency way too strong for them.
Germany deserves zero sympathy, and its current games by Schauble is probably as much to do with their domestic politics. Schauble is pretty happy to fuck over Greece for some extra votes at home.
So let me get this straight...
Greece wanted into the Eurozone, so it fabricated its data, hired a team of extremely skilful but crooked bankers to certify that its numbers are factual, and promptly ran its new EU-granted credit limit into the stratoshpere while failing to make its payments.
Those wicked, wicked Germans.
Its a real mess..I would not be surprised Tara if a bunch smaller countries did it too. But I am not surpised Goldman did this and at the same time profited twice after by having hedges that the greeks instruments including the musical lyra fell. Whats missing is an ad by Goldman..Got zero credit.?..NO credit? if you have a country and make only 99$ a week..we can help you boost your FICO score to 900 ..you too can wine and dine with the elites!
call us today at 1 666 666 6666 and you can ride TODAY cuz We Own the Bank!
I just heard yesterday that a pooling in Greece has shown Syriza going from 30% favor to 38% . Syriza is proving that the previous government was in collusion with the banksters to put Greece in a straitjacket. They should get out from that madhouse that is the European union and go by themselves, others will gladly follow. Let the Germans eat their own damn crouts.
I have a bomb shelter under Ayres Rock.
Yeah great, you're gonna get roasted down there as it will be drier than California soon enough!
The biggest obstacle to resolving the Greek financial crisis is not "trust". It's not "domestic politics", either. It's "math".
Acknowledging that the Greek economy can't now and never could support universal healthcare, old-age pensions, free higher education, subsidized government-owned utilities, a massive government workforce, strict rules against firing anyone, etc., is brutal. Admitting this mathematical fact would force other Eurozone countries to examine their own finances in a clear light. Can the Spanish, Italian, or French economies truly support all that wonderful stuff? Or is the entire European Socialist dream unsustainable, built on ever-increasing debt, until it eventually implodes under the crushing reality of mathematics?
Question: Under Schauble's proposed temporary 5-year Greek exit from the Eurozone would Greece be declared in default by the BIS and its existing Euro-denominated debt deemed uncollectable and worthless? Would the Credit Default Swaps trigger and Greek Bond derivatives be wiped out? Or would the existing toxic uncollectable Greek shit-debt-obligations (SDOs) be placed in a 5-year accounting limbo, remaining on the creditors' books at par as viable assets?
"Math class is tough!" - Teen Talk Barbie, 1992
Want to be happy for the rest of your life?
Go your own way.
Others will go theirs' too!
So?
Eurofudgepack
One thing that Germany, Finland, Netherlands, and Greece can agree on is to clawback $2Billion from Goldman Sachs. That should get the negotiation moving in the right direction.
A very incomplete manifesto of the Q99X2 follows: Debt is wrong. Debt should never be paid back. People that issue debt in any form should be arrested and imprisoned 1 year per every $100 of debt issued. Debt is a negative instrument that seeks to eliminate existence by its very nature and cannot take on positive qualities in any case. Debt and its relationship to money is a much larger issue and will require volumes of books that show the relationship to human life and the role money plays in the propagation of existence. Bitcoin is not debt. It is $312.07
Why are you comparing bitcoin to failed FIAT? How many tomatoes I can buy with one bitcoin from my local supermarket?
Just like 1913, only the Snakes In Suits wanted a Federal Reserve System in the U.S. as they are now trying to do in Europe.
Infinite fiats may be issued from thin air.
How is the value going for you?
"Tis a slippery system there!
Make all these guys read The Art of the Deal then put the Donald in Charge of negotiations.
What's not to like once you get past the bombast? You gotta non-career politician, an American who speaks his mind.
Yeah, he hasn't challenged the Fed, but who at this point would do that? I'm not saying he would go after them, but I sure as shit would stay quiet. Trump knows the score with those Rats.
We are overrun with illegals, many of whom are gang-bangers and perverts. Hell, yeah, close the Border.
I'm in with the Donald. He is at least a genuine USA product, unlike some others we know, and even others who have Foundations used for extorting money or a Family name.
Go For it, Trumpster!
Oh, and 1 piece of advice from a professional: Beef up and keep your own security detail. Do NOT trust the SS. They fucked up in '63 cause they were infiltrated.
Down arrow all you want, but I am sick of Clintons, Bushes, and Professionsl Politicians.
It's Fight Club, bitches.
Just Kurious..What happens to Greeces shipping business after an exit. Won't its ships be subject to seizure at various ports of call..by loanshark billionnaires like whats his face Paul singh using the courts as he did to argentina, in fact delaying moneys due to Soros the last time around.just before she had that run of bad luck afterwards We have vultures breaking up countries and the other waiting to pick up the pieces. They probably even lunch together at times I am sure. I think the ride after a Grexit will be just as troubling ..
WIRE - BLESSED STATE......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XBz4nq31Yw