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Greece Just Lost Control Of Its Banks, And Why Deposit Haircuts Are Imminent
Yes, Greek banks may have been insolvent - something that was clear since the first bailout of 2010 - but at least the Greek state had control over them: as such it could have mandated mergers, recapitalizations, liquidity injections, even depositor bail-ins (perhaps the harshest lesson for the ordinary Greek population as a result of this latest crisis is that deposits are not "cash in the bank" but liabilities of insolvent financial organizations).
Starting on Wednesday that will no longer be the case.
Because while Greek banks will maintain their capital controls for months and withdrawals will be limited to €60 or less for months (the ECB is well aware that any boost to the ELA will result in a promptly surge in deposit outflows until the new ELA ceiling is reached, and so on ad inf) the one key change on Wednesday when the Tsipras government, whose coalition no longer has a majority in parliament and will have to rely on opposition votes, votes through the humiliating Greek "pre-deal" to unlock negotiations for the promised €86 billion in bailouts (which will be used almost entirely to repay the Troika) is that it will hand over the keys of Greek banks to the ECB.
Here is Reuters with this little known fact:
One of the preconditions imposed on Greece for a deal is that it signs into law European rules that would put euro zone authorities at the ECB and in Brussels, rather than Athens, in charge of identifying and closing or breaking up sick banks.
This in turn could lead to a shake-up of the sector that could see some banks close, with losses pushed onto bondholders and possibly even large depositors. In such circumstances, there would be little that Athens could do to prevent this.
One European official had told Reuters that the number of big banks in the country could be reduced from four - National Bank, Piraeus, Eurobank and Alpha - to as little as two.
Keep in mind the primary leverage the ECB had over the Greek government was the hint that if only Greece agrees to the terms, the European Central Bank just may be nice enough to ease ELA haircuts and eventually boost the ELA ceiling to allow the phasing out of capital controls and permit Greeks access to their savings.
This will not happen.
Unfortunatley, the moment the Greek government votes through the "deal" required by Summit document SN 4070/15, the Greek government will not only hand over sovereignty to €50 billion of Greece's choicest assets to some escrowed fund controlled by Belgium and designed to liquidate Greek assets to repay the Troika, it will also give up all control of the nation's €120 billion or so in leftover personal and corporate deposits, also known as unsecured liabilities.
And since the banks are undercapitalized by at least €25 billion, and realistically over €60 billion, if one takes into account NPLs which at 50% are a very optimistic estimate for a country in depression for 6 consecutive years, the first decision the ECB will do once it realizes the sorry state of financial affairs in Greece is to do precisely what the government could have done but did not have the guts when it still had control: overnight it will out about 50% of Greek depositors.
In other words, Greece is about to hand over the keys to the only thing that is forcing it to hand over the keys.
Unfortunately for Greece, there will be absolutely nothing its government can do to avoid this because on Wednesday, the Greek government will vote to hand over its sovereignty to Europe for, sadly, absolutely nothing in return.
Our only question, one we first asked in April, is whether as part of the deal, the 112.5 tons of official Greek gold will also be handed over to Frankfurt, Berlin or Brussels. Recall back in 2012:
Ms. Katseli, an economist who was labor minister in the government of George Papandreou until she left in a cabinet reshuffle last June, was also upset that Greece’s lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece under the terms of the new deal.
Since this bailout has the most draconian terms yet, we wonder just what the fate of Greek gold will be?
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see, voting matters!
This might squeak through on Wednesday but I can not see this being fully implemented. Once the radicals (Communists and Golden Dawn) see the impact on the citizens, Grexit is back on the table or a military dictatorship to seize power.
I think having Germany take over the country once per century was enough for the Greeks.
sorry, but i don't buy this "oh the greeks were only bluffing", followed by total and complete capitulation in every regard. something must have happened in these meetings - be it the americans threatening to hand over greece to russia, revolution, or outright assasination.
also - the new finance minister? is he a complete puppet? i haven't seen anything from him - no disagreement, no argument, not even a single "we're greeks and proud" chestbeating. it's almost as if he was installed because he's a complete pushover.
I seriously doubt we'd agree to hand Greece over to Russia. We took advantage of an existing political divide in Ukraine and kicked off a civil war because it pivoted towards Russia after the EU told them to pick either Russia or the EU, but not both.
Time to put up "UNDER NEW [MIS]MANAGEMENT" signs on all Greek banks and public buildings...
Why are we still talking about the bailout when it doesn't look like it will get approval from the Greek Legislature?
The deal is not done.
Laughter. As if it needs approval form the Greek legislature. Silly human.
Disregard
What Greece really needs is a military Coup d'état.
That military coup was for if they decided to leave the EU and possibly NATO. The way it would of been brought about would of been by a false flag muzzie major bombing attack with many casualties. More likely on the subways, trains, or buses.
Looking at Draghi and Schauble you can see how twisted their faces and bodies look, they are creatures of the netherworld. Why in the world are we letting bankers run our societies. We should keep them locked up in dungeons on short leashes.
ZHers must just be fuuuuurious that their doomsday once again never happened lol
you can tell how bitter the Tylers are too :P
i mean, it's an embarrasing sham imo too haha but you can tell a lot of people on this site really really disappointed that the plutocracy won again
I was thinkling it would be fun if Greece got to decide which TBTF banks HERE needed to be broke up !
I guess Tsipras is the Greek equivalent of Hope and Change.
Tsipras=Obongo=bought by jew banksters.
These type of homosexual cocksuckers were once commonly knownn as traitors.
Be prepared...
All the steam left Tsipras' stride the moment the negative referendum results came in. It seems clear that he was a FRAUD, his 'OXI' bluster just role play.
It appears now that the EU is determined to MAKE AN EXAMPLE of the Greek people, to PUNISH them for their IMPUDENCE. Heaven help them.
day of reckoning is pushed out. happens all the tyme...
no biggie til tshtf, yaaaawn...
Wrong. ZH'ers in the majority want to see Greece take control of its own fate again by getting out of the Euro. Most people here believe in Capitalism and want to see it in action, which means that money losing banks go bankrupt - not continue to have a situation where 'heads they win and tails we lose'.
++.
I've got plenty of time and cold beer to wait this out.
mine is a cup of tea, and I am brewing a cannister of...
and stock up on CASHews to go with it.
Carry on Kabuki...
Brilliant synopsis
Evil twisted banking bastards
What enemies of the ppl
already done-by the banks
bail in has been rule out as recapitalization method... rather bail out is the prefered way with immediate funds from ESM of 10-14 billion euros in bonds
Probably the ONLY Merikan candidate who understands the financial numbers over there is The Don.
And there's probably NO ONE who understands Haircuts more then The Don!
You're right, we've never had a candidate with as much personal experience with going BK as Trump.
I'm sure Mr. Panos is having a caniption.
I think that tsipiras was told straight up that he was a dead man if he continued this 'nonsense...'
I agree
i think you conspicuously left out one major thing; NOT A WORD OUT OF THE GREEK MILITARY. they haven't made a squeak PUBLICLY. not yet. that will and must change.
What tesla said which is what I said. I don't see them surrendering their sovereignty that easily. This could get very ugly in the next 60 days.
3 days to get over the shock.I expect lynch mobs in Syntagma sq. by Wednesday.
Greece has a military?
Who knew...
What does a Greek airforce spec F16 go for?
Tomorow's new list of "bailout" conditions will include demands by Schaeuble, Draghi and the ECB all Greek fighters, navy ships and whatever guns their army has be turned over as part of the new "loan" collateral. They will also demand that all military psonell be laid off since the Greeks don't need a miltary when they no longer have a soverign country to defend. Just an unnecessary expense.
The only reason to have money in the Bank is for security purposes.
"Once the Bank closes it's door YOU LOSE EVERYTHING."
So unless and until those Banks re-open THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT.
The new blitzkrieg is a handful of debt notes and a harmless old man, who calmly asks for payment. The Greek army won't have enough funds for target practice or spare parts, and will lose all effectiveness within a few months. The economy already crashed and civilians are starving.
War lost, country devastated -- without a shot fired. Now the reparations squad can simply ask for the assets they want pledged as "collateral". Who ever said wars would be fought with terrible weapons underestimated the power of nerdy book keepers.
This is what actually happened in the US depression in the 1930's.
40,000 Bank failures "and zero FDIC."
Talk about a license to steal.
"And not a word from the media"...not even here at ZH.
Talk about "Pool Sharks"!
All legal in Europe too. Still...interesting that the euro sold off and US equities surged. Would imply he possibility of a "moral component" to money.
If this "Bill" comes due to over-indebted US States and Cities...look out. "Might suddenly be a cost to stealing as a a form of Governance."
Greek interest rates are in the double digits.
Some guys with guns and a jeep is not a military.
Yeah Greece has an army.. quite a large one actually.
Which is also why their debt levels are unmanageable. Had they worked on having a defense industry of their own instead of just shipping, things might of been different.
O.K. so the EU wants to destroy Greece because they are afraid of their vast military might?
Total budget for Hellenic Armed Forces in 2013 = ~USD$4.2 billion
Total budget for NYC police force in 2013 = USD$4.6 billion
"Where is the military in all this?" is a truly comical question.
Boys and girls, this is what a debt workout looks like at a sovereign level. Greeks had decades to elect competent officials in favor of competent, sustainable policies. The Greek people failed, so now the (perceived) adults in the room are taking over. Coming soon to a jurisdiction near you...
A very good military. Don't believe me, ask the Turks.
Greece has a military?
Indeed they do, and they have cute pom-poms on their boots.......scares crap out of the ememy...s'true, would I kid you?
for protection from the turks
at least that is what my friend told me from out there...
they truly hate the turks...
been on exercises with both Greeks and Turks....the latter will have them in hours
sorry to burst your bubble but it ain't 70's no more.What yall are hinting at has less than a 5% of happening.
A few things to keep in mind:
All this to say, coup.. maybe but bloodshed for damn sure.
The only winners are the commies and the nazies… for no other reason than the willingness to die for their beliefs.
Bravo....very true
Very accurate, especially #7. They smile as they cut a throat
-4. Greek church hasnt made a good transition in the information era,and as a direct result it has lost some power among the educated youth-even religious youth. And yes we do have a definite tendency in sacrifice even if mindless or unhepful.When nothing bodes well and every direction has a grave cost,then the self destruct mode is on,especially if we can bring someone down with us.I never quite understood why it is so prevalent a notion around here.
-7.that desire for vengeance is MANY a times counter productive.And can be baseless too.
A coup is probably out of touch with reality, a massive bloodshed too. But as I said to someone else, the situation is a slow pressure cooker.It is mid-July.It wont explode now, and if by fall no steam has been released with some prosecutions of people are responsible for all these (previous governments,oligarchs,elites that dipped their paws too deep in the honey) then there will be a witch-hunting, and that never goes well.
fer sure some kind of quid pro quo brought to you by the almighty USG
Wouldn't that be Squid pro quo?
Agree. Or are they saving a card to play? For god sakes, I hope so. This is a no brainer decision tree. Fact: Greeks are fucked either way. But only one generation lost if they grexit. Two if they agree to this nonsense of paying it all back. Which will never happen. Look Greeks, you fucked up. Ya cant just continue to spend more than you take in, unless you believe Krugman, the biggest idiot on the planet. So you're gonna have to pay the price for the stupidity of all those "leaders" you elected for the last forty years. Done. But right now, right here, you have a chance to stick it to that fuckstick in Germany (and the other central banks across the globe) that told you this would be okay the last time this came up. Will it hurt me? Probably. My 401k will get whacked. But here's the thing. I would rather see you guys go out imposing some pain on everyone else for the treatment you are receiving than just dying with a whimper. Go for it. Die for something.. Or die for nothing.
What about Tsipras, talk about being able to stand along with other Europeans equals and then agreeing to a deal that cost his country its sovereignity.
In time, he will be remembered for - Turning down a bad deal so he can sign up to a worse deal.
I'm beginning to wonder if he was an EU sleeper, to lead the Greeks into accepting financial slavery.
Exactly. If they are forced into a bail-in then there is no incentive at all for the Greeks to stay in the Euro (or EU for that matter). Their population would probably demand a return to the drachma and a complete default on all outstanding bond debt. There would be no reason for them to do anything else at that point.
So right WOMBATS.
The negotiation probably started with the words......... " We have your family"
...And we're going to make you an offer you can't refuse
Denmark.. Ireland.. Greece.. and there are still people who believe the EU is democratic hehehe
There is a bright side to all this sophmoric frat rat banker binge colon cleansing explosively sharting meaningless "tokens" of wealth, like EURs and USDs, into those GQ triple locked, and very well appointed, coffer-toilets in the counting rooms of the soon to be harvested pink tenders in the feed lots of uptown penthouses. Tink about it ..
Did god put em there - or did we put em there for that epochal barbecue over hot coals ignited by the fledging of the millennial Phoenix?
What is a USD? What is a EUR? Does it have nutritional value? Can it prevent the sharp end of a roasting spit from being stuck up their well worn cloacas, through the alimentary and out the mouth to be hung and spun over the mob's pits of glowing coals? Hell no. They ain't got nothing but a few other dizzy inbreds they hang with to commiserate the burden some Gilded Dog Demon Icon handed them - whoa be the vanity of the Shepard of the little people - as Java the Sach put it, ".. doing god's work" is the burden a fat cat racketeer has to endure - shit, they barely have time to play find the quarter with pre schoolers these days - they be all busy sharting meaningless inedible tokens into gilded shitters, and absolutely convinced that "the zero nutritional value of token peanuts they binge shart in the counting room" is something more than the stinky doody it really be.
It ain't shit, it be salvation.
What be happening in Greece just plying more tension - at some point, the tension go boom sure as de physics dat make poopy stick to shoe - and all the false King's EURs. and all the false King's USDs won't be able to stop the 6 billion owners of this rock pile driving dose nassity sharp roasting spits up the bung and out de tongue of the vanity pampered fattened gilded cows slow roasted to perfection for de 6 billion epochal party goers salivating in anticipation of them sweet tenders right off the bone.
Two words to your mother, "Our Land".
And that's the only fact Jack gotta know.
We have nothing to fear but the darkest ruthlessness of justice unleashed when dat proverbial spring go "boing", and believe me baby, it hurt. It's gotta happen - too late for a civilized reset - so sit back and let the vain ignorance of the self annoints worshipping the false token gods do it for us. Sooner the better. Most of us have a legacy of descendants about to flower - should we let them be sacrificial fodder for the Dark Priests of de Dog Demon Deity - it be one of dem moral imparatives dat can't be set aside. Not dis time.
And how come ISIS or ISIL never attack Israel? Never hear dat question on CNN or CNBC, do ya? And mean while 4 zillion brain deads vicariously living inside a 4 in by 3 in smart device screen be all mesmerized by a foam ufo in between reruns of Real Housewives of TV Land and de ass scratching chimp passing out when he smell his finger.
Ain't that America?
Why is there no set bankruptcy laws for nations in the EU?
Intelligent beings would have thought of all of this ahead of time.
Instead:
"We will figure that out if/when it happens".
"No one could have forseen such events".
Excellent comments, johngaltfla, and this entire Greek situation reminds me of a blog post I stumbled upon a few years past:
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/global-agenda-privatizing-planet
I know once the population see how much money they will lose out of their bank accounts and their pensions they will all be wanting it to stop and say no. What ECB is attempting is a financial overthrow of the govt.. They know that they have to hit hard and big at the first before the population get wind of this in order to pay back most if not all their money loaned. Once done, Greece has no gold, no money and they will be a broke country.
THE BANKS AREALREADY CLOSED!
"Agree to our terms and everything in the Greek Banks are your Payrus...
http://www.relay-of-life.org/main.html
It seems that Greeks really DO like taking it up the ass.
Repeatedly
Yes; the HOME of Democracy!
Democracy for the Wealthy mind you. Slavery for the Poor. It was that way back then also.
What a shocker.... elected ruling political elite miedras ignoring the will of the people and selling them out to corrupt criminal bankers...... absolutely shocking.... OMG
The Greek referendum matters because it started a chain of events that led to a position where the Greek people, and Europe in general see the true face of the EU.
This just sped up a process that would always have happened anyway.
The referendum helped clarify the situation.
think that's the first time I've ever seen a perfect +100 -0 score before
grats :D
edit // and right after i say that some fucker votes you down lol well i saw it officially at 100/0 at least
There was a moment when the President of the Eurogroup decided to move against us and effectively shut us out, and made it known that Greece was essentially on its way out of the Eurozone. … There is a convention that communiqués must be unanimous, and the President can’t just convene a meeting of the Eurozone and exclude a member state. And he said, “Oh I’m sure I can do that.” So I asked for a legal opinion. It created a bit of a kerfuffle. For about 5-10 minutes the meeting stopped, clerks, officials were talking to one another, on their phone, and eventually some official, some legal expert addressed me, and said the following words, that “Well, the Eurogroup does not exist in law, there is no treaty which has convened this group.”
So at that point I had to get up and say “Well perhaps we should simply not hold elections anymore for indebted countries”, and there was no answer. The only interpretation I can give [of their view] is “Yes, that would be a good idea, but it would be difficult to do. So you either sign on the dotted line or you are out.”
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/07/yanis-varoufakis-full-...
Greek debt to GDP was at 100% by 94/95. But oh yeh, blame Germany. Greece shouldnt of been allowed into the EMU. Golman Sachs fault. Greece cant pay its debts. Not Greece fault. never greece fault. always someone else.
Euro information
Status: Euro-area member since 1 January 2001
Fixed conversion rate: €1 = 340.750 GRD
TFJ's. What else is there to say.
We lent you money you could never repay, now hand over your country.
"We lent you money you could never repay, now hand over your country."
exactly.....and the response - "OK..."
Pssst, that money was joo'ed into existence too.
<chuckle>
We printed money out of thin air and now demand all of your productive capital infrastructure, plus accrued fiat wealth. Thanks for playing along! Here's some nice Ben Hur & Fiddler on the Roof DVD's as parting gifts (so as to share the art of suffering that we have elevated to an art form).
"We lent you money you could never repay, now hand over your country."
And that money was printed out of thin air by a few Jewish banking family's hiding in plain sight in their 'estates' around the European countrysides.
This is the whole point of fractional reserve banking. The banker gets everything for nothing.
It's unfortunate that they do not do the only thing that can save the Greek economy-make it a tax free zone for businesses and residents.
Without an economy, they are wasting their time trying to divide up future funds that are never going to be produced economically.
It's all for appearances at this point.
its all for derivatives at this point
By Yanis and Tsipris handing over the banks it removes one of the key weapons that the greek people had. This is a prelude to the taking and dismantling of greece. The derivatives are like a financial nuke if used right. Tsipris is serving the bankers and is helping disarm greece. Then the real raids and occupation begins.
Anyone seen any ZH articles about how Putin was taking Greece. Greece was pivoting to Russia. Russia was getting a pipeline through Greece. Russia will get military bases in greece. The same kind of stories written and said regarding Cyprus at one time. Those were BS then and still are.
Cyprus was the template.
Greece could of been a second Switzerland if they played their cards right.
I don't believe the Greek people have much choice left but to take to the streets and break out the pitch forks and torches.
They will end up bending over and taking it Greek style...
where's sparta when you need it?
Done burned up a while back.
They are very afraid to lose their bank accounts and pensions, now in Euros (even though that has mostly already happened).
"I don't believe the Greek people have much choice left but to take to the streets and break out the pitch forks and torches. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhZWDq2FOvk
there has been pitchforks and torches for too damn long ,these last 5 years, albeit for lesser reasons.People grew tired.. hell even Tsipras might not be in office right now if the last governments had played it safe.
There will be "upsets", but not now, I dont think so. It is mid-july, it's hot ,we 've been in a financial siege for 2 weeks and we got the backstabing blow from the one we turned to for trying to prevent that.
It's more of a slow cooker this one.
The Greeks are on their way to castrate themselfes by blindly following the lunatic illusionist Tsipras
It only happens if the Greek Parliament votes for national suicide, which they just might.....
jeezus, - anything else going on in the world but this Greek drama?
A Troika riot {if you will} was never not going to happen.
almost time for Mike Rivero's show at 4 p.m.
www.whatreallyhappened.com
2 days to Jade Helm.
El Chapo threatened Donald Trump on Twitter.
Trump will see what happens when you speak the Truth.
How dare Trump threaten Chapos drug mules and criminal organizatio in USA by threathening to enforce immigration laws on the books.
Now he'll have the CIA after him.
Heh. Re "and possibly even large depositors." they mean all of the Russian and Chinese criminals who have stolen money stashed in greek banks.
Repeat: Cyprus was the template.
Meanwhile back in China...
All time highs?
Long drachmas.
Long pigs.
I suspect the old sayings "It's money in the bank" and "Laughing all the way to the bank" are up for revision.
In the future, that term "It's like money in the bank", is going to be considered a sarcastic sentiment
somewhere along the lines of "I've got a bridge in England I'd like to sell you".
The only way anyone would be laughing , would be if they were running away from the bank and a haircut.
GS FTMFW
Isn't it possible the Greek Parliament will vote no?
They ain't Spartans.
Greeks to banks
" Ha ha ha ha ha what deposits? "
If Greece does not pay off Japan's bond tonight, I think there might be some competition for those "resources." I think this shit gonna get all tied up in some kinda world court!
And if those riders are triggered on the Japanese bonds, it gets really interesting!
Those Euro-trash deserve what is coming. Oh yeah, oh yeah! I hate being optimistic but damn, babies, damn. Apologies for the Phil Collins:
I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, Oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord
Well, if you told me you were drowning
I would not lend a hand
I've seen your face before my friend
But I don't know if you know who I am
Well, I was there and I saw what you did
I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off that grin,
I know where you've been
It's all been a pack of lies
Edit: The bond is only $160 million. But can they pay it? Better, what if they chose not to? And this won't be the only outside debt like this to show up.
It may be a bond, but are there Samurai Bonds floating around! If Greece defaults on just one bond, the entire Samurai Bond exposure is forfeited and comes in. The question is what is Greeces Banzai Factor (the total samurai bond exposure it has)! You could see in 24 hours untold amounts of crazy ninja banzai attacks from samurai bond holders from all around the world.
Shakesphere couldn't have written it better. We may be on the verge of a new kind of Greek Tragedy...The Greek Banzai!
Oh brother! What next.
The people who write this stuff, they must do it for the commissions, then they get out of dodge and leave the parites to settle, later, if needed.
Who does not see the intrinsic counterparty risk in this? Do you know at the time you buy this, how many other bonds are out there, also wanting to collect, at the same time?
Just wow.
Hitler and Mussolini having a good laugh about this in Hell.
They need to fly the German flag over the Acropolis to really get the party started, and for the Greeks to understand what all this really means; complete and utter defeat unless they throw off the Brussels Bandits and the ECB KleptoSocioFascist's.
I can't imagine what it must be like to be a 70-something greek right now, sitting in my house knowing that I will not be able to buy any of the basic necessities of life, when only a few short months ago, I was enjoying playing with the grandkids and looking forward to the simple life of my golden years. There is absolutley nothing the greeks can do about it. It's all gone. Might as well jump off of the nearest cliff. What a tragedy.
Fucking banksters deserve nothing less than to be fed slowly into the woodchipper, feet-first.
Thier erratic marxist leaders will take good care of them.
Yeah, just keep on chomping on that fishook.
Look behind the curtain and beyond your dimestore 50s political thoughts.
Socialist, Marxist, blah, blah, blah....This is corporatist takeover and financial slavery...
Coming to a town near you (and me).
Yep. We're all on the same timeline. Just at different points.
pods
All my life I wanted to live in a little cabin on some fertile land paid off free and clear with just a few necessary items. A simple life, beholden to no one. When I finally realized my house and property will never in any way be mine, it was a major revelation. A hyperinflationary event could have my home reassessed, forfeiting all my savings just to pay the taxes. All the fruits of my labor ripped away and nothing I could do to stop them. At a certain age it would be impossible to recover.
I made a decision if this ever were to happen to me and suicide was the only option vs starvation, I take out at least one of those smug mother fuckers. Just the thought keeps me working out. A lot of C-4 can get heavy.
Miffed
so i take it microbiologists know a lot of chemistry also :)
They are going to push. But, I wager alot of folks are going crack much sooner than us. Problem is that most of them don't know what hit them. They have been brainwashed into hating each other. Many incapable of even connecting the dots if it were all laid out in front of them.
We see it coming. So at least we can do our best to prepare to outlast whatever critical mass it takes for the system itself to just choke.
Always nice to see you around Miffed. Wish I had a nice little cabin somewhere. Rather, I am zombie central.
Miffed, this is nothing to worry about. Enjoy your cabin. Just don't have land that some powerful developer would want some day.
When the hyperinflation is getting near, you as a ZH reader will have enough prior notice to get your savings into a foreign currency. Much as Wiemar republic germans did holding dollars or swiss francs thru that HI event.
I think that you are on to the correct idea.
Keep your head low and remember, they cannot take possession of everyone, all at once. You will have notice.
You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun your neighbor...
I suppose you would feel sorry for also 90 year Nazis who butchered millions too.
Don't let these 70 year Greeks fool you. They spent the last 50 years stealing, plundering the social system, lazy and voting for morons.
How do you think these 70 year pensioners goto to their positions? They didn't work and save enough.
How many Greeks spent all their pay cheques without putting anything away, in the full expectation they will be given golden pensions?
Think about, ARE GREEKS SO STUPID that every body spends every cent they have, don't save, go on holidays, drink coffe every day, and nobody pays taxes, and they all think the State will look after them when they are old with nice big fat pensions?
I see 43 people have given you thumbs up, I and only someone else (good on you whoever you are, you are an intelligent person), gave you a thumbs down (memo to ZH: I think this thumbs up and down should be open to everyone not just to those who register). What a tragedy that so many are fooled by your snivelling undeserving sentiment.
Meat Hammer you are a Meat Head!
It is stupid idiotic thinking like yours that lets people like the Greeks get away with financial murder. Grow up Meat Hammer, you're being very selfish! The old people in Greece have stolen the future and destines of the young. That is a crime! THE OLD MUST PAY! If they don't have the basic necessities of life, they can go live in the poor house with the other beggars and homeless people, that's where they belong. What about the young and their future, do they have to eat grass for the rest of their lives just because the old were to damn bloody selfish?
DAMN I HATE THE OLD PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY HAVE A GOD DAMN GIVEN RIGHT TO EVERYTHING, ESPECIALLY PENSIONS. YOU DON'T!
Message To All Elderly:
OLD PEOPLE, IT IS TIME TO OWN UP, AND PAY UP FOR YOUR FAILURES IN ALLOWING THE WORLD TO BECOME WHAT IT IS TODAY. YOU DON'T DESERVE 1 CENT OF PENSIONS, NOT IF IT MEANS THE YOUNG HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR RECKLESS SELFISH WAYS! IT IS NOT FAIR TO PUT YOUR BURDENS AND EXPECT THE YOUNG TO SUPPORT THEIR OWN BURDENS IN AN ECONOMIC CLIMATE THAT IS FAR TOUGHER THAN IT WAS IN YOUR TIME.
House prices have NEVER been so expensive. 60 years ago, an average home was about 3 to 4 times an annual salary, today it is closer to 10x an annual salary. The burden of taxes today is 3x more than it was 60 years ago. 60 years ago, 1 salary was enough for an entire family, now 2 salaries is barely enough.
TIME TO OWN UP OLD PEOPLE....YOU HAVE DISGRACED YOUR GENERATION...DON'T EXPECT THE YOUNG TO NOW BE BURDENED WITH YOUR MISERABLE FAILURES.
My apologizes to all who read this, if you are offended by my tone. This issue about the poor old people really burns me up. I live in Italy and I see on a daily basis how BLOODY GOD DAMN SELFISH THESE OLD BACKWARD CRUEL RASCIST BASTARD ITALIANS ARE!! It really burns me up this...it is so unfair!!!!!!
For the record I am Italian!
Per il record, sono anche un italiano. Una ragione per cui l'Italia è in un stato di disordine è perché la vecchia generazione sono stati così incredibilmente "selfish". Scrivo la parola "selfish" non egoista perché la lingua italiana non ha il concetto di selfish anglofone, e che è una grande problema della lingua italiana. La lingua italiana è troppo arretrato per sostenere idee moderne è concetti evoluti, quindi, è una ragione perché l'Italia è così indietro. Non mi piace dirlo, ma come io conoscendo italiano e inglese, è assolutamente vero.
[English translation is: For the record, I am also italian. One reason for which Italy is also in a mess is because the old generation have been incredibly "selfish." I write "selfish" and not "egoista" because the italian language does not have the concept of the anglophone selfish, and this is a big problem of the italian language. The italian language is backward in supporting modern ideas and evolve concepts, thus, it is one reason why Italy is so backward. I don't like saying this, but knowing italian and english, I can absolutely say this is true.]
I know this is going to really set of some complaints. So be it. I stand by my words.
Cold-Pragmatism....Freddo-Pragmatismo
Mr/ms Cold,
I am a 54 year old american woman. For the last 30 years I have worked full time, often with two jobs, and scrimped and saved for my retirement. I realized SS was nowhere near going to meet my needs though I live a very simple life. I have taken very few vacations, never expensive affairs (0k, I do admit drinking damn fine coffee everyday). I will receive no pension. Because my tax rate is over 50%, how am I to save for retirement especially in an inflationary time? The 401k was sold to us as a panacea to our problems. It now is obviously a pot of cash that will be confiscated. My only hope now is PMs and land to support myself. Tenuous as well but at least they are physical and not as easy to steal.
Looking back, where has my parsimonious life gotten me? I'm in the same situation as the elderly Greeks with nothing in the end. I never wanted to burden the youth with my care when I was elderly. I have 2 daughters 21 and 24 and know how hard it is today. How can I not care for their situation? We are not all selfish.
My 84 mother in law retired at 55 and has spent her time carefree traveling the world. She admonishes us for not paying off our mortgage as she did in 8 years. The fact hers was 30k vs ours is 300k doesn't seem to register. She also bragged she paid $4/month in social security in the 60s. I pay over $400 today. I know what it means to be angry but the fact is, she was born at a very sweet spot in human history which will be unlikely seen again.
Life is not fair Cold. When you truly embrace this, you can move on. Look at it this way. When it all blows to hell, who would you rather be? An old decrepit person or a healthy young one? Think about it. There are advantages where you find yourself.
Peace
Miffed
you 've made a whole lot of unfair generalisations.I am Greek, I am paying my taxes and i never vote any of the fuckers that crippled the economy.Also the whole "save enough" thingy is a leaky boat,a welfare state is needed,but an "all people are equal" as a base at least.
But I will agree that the old people must pay in one way or another.It would be better fot my parents to live off me than me living off my parents as it happens now.
The pensions dropped significantly these last 5 years but there are still people taking a 3000 euro montly pension while my wage (when i find work) would be 480 euros.
-"But i worked that money".
-"yeah you worked and earned that money then voted some fools that lost 'em in casinos, see the greater picture grandad"
-"no"
With less and less jobs and less salary value,my generation cannot in anyway support the next one. I will never get any pension,I made peace with the fact that I will die working (if and for the duration of that job).But I cant make peace with the fact that children being 4 yo now won't be able to have some kind of social security for their lifetime. I thought nations were all about maintenance not live fast and die young.
48 hours is a long time. Let's see how this plays out.
Interesting looking flag, RealityCheque.
Should have bought gold and silver with your money instead of keeping it in banks. What were you thinking when Cyprus had haircuts to bank deposits?
If you are in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy and France, you should be buying gold and silver - for whom the bells toll? They toll for thee.
A couple of million Euros could have got them hundreds of billions of Drachmas printed up.
Wouldn't be worth shit outside Greece but at least they could save their banks and start over.
Mr. Game Theory must have missed that one angle.
Fuck -- dumb asses like you are getting tiring. NOT ONE greek person wishes he had gold now. He wishes he had paper euros outside the bank to pay for daily necessities. Those same euros will convert just as favorably to a new drachma, and without the transaction costs of gold.
All your bank are belong to us
But, but, but how can this be? these same Banks just passed the EU stress test with flying colors just months ago. /s
And it should be crystal clear at this late date: Resistance is Futile.
Surely they have some sabotaged planned for Wednesday 12 AM. ..... correct ???
Greece didn't lose control, it gave it away.
Hey, what ever happened to Russia and China? They seem to have dropped out of the equation of suitors for Greece?
Interesting.
That pivot would lead to the state department and the CIA going into Greece, looking for a political divide, inflaming it, making sure that a bunch of people got killed then blaming it on one side or the other.
Germany has achieved via debt slavery what they could not achieve with bullets and bombs. But, to say Merkel is running it with an iron fist is like saying Obameo is running the US. Both are just puppets for their ZWO cabal masters. It's headed west my friends.
And it Begins
again. lol.
I understand that on his return trip to Greece, the airline charged Tsipras an extra luggage fee because of the added weight of the pieces of silver given to him by the troika.
Not too many people are talking about the NPL provision, but I'm guessing that means evictions and firesale of RE? So this plan is: slash pensions, liquidate state assets, evict people from their homes, haircut depositors, sink labor laws, and fire a bunch of state workers. Again, at least the Greeks weren't humiliated.
Bad solutions lead to even worse problems. The clock is still ticking.
3 years? This thing won't stick for 3 weeks.
Something stinks. All this theatre, referendum, win for democracy BS, all just to fold and submit to everything the Troika wanted? I don't think Tsipras is exactly endearing himself to his countrymen as it first appeared. Someone definitely threatened to kill his dog, or this is all just a ploy to buy just a little more time if they can to give the Troika the real FU? This is all bogus
Death by the crowds was less certain than death by the elites.
but messier