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Greek Lawmakers Won't Back Deal; Finnish FinMin Says "Can't Agree" To New Greek Loans
Is the Greek "deal" falling apart already?
New comments are coming across the wires fast and furious over the last few minutes indicating that not only is Syriza's Left Platform taking a stand against the new agreement (as expected), but also the Greek junior coalition partner. Meanwhile, Finnish FinMin Alexander Stubb (who has been a thorn in the Greek's side of late) is out with some very cautious commentary as well.
From Reuters:
- LEFTIST GROUP OF LAWMAKERS IN GREECE'S RULING SYRIZA PARTY CONSIDERING VOTING AGAINST BAILOUT DEAL - SOURCE FROM LEFTIST PLATFORM
- GREEK JUNIOR COALITION PARTY LEADER SAYS PM TSIPRAS FACED A COUP IN BRUSSELS FROM GERMANY
A leftist group of lawmakers in Greece's ruling Syriza party may vote against a bailout agreement in parliament, which will vote within days on a cash-for-reforms deal key to rescuing Greece, sources from the leftist platform said.
'The leftist platform is oriented towards not voting," a source from the leftist platform told reporters. "They could declare present or give a 'No' vote or abstain," the source said.
Separately, sources close to Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, a Syriza hardliner who fiercely opposed new austerity measures, said he is not expected to resign for now.
Euro zone leaders made Greece surrender much of its sovereignty to outside supervision on Monday in return for agreeing to talks on an 86 billion euros bailout to keep the near-bankrupt country in the single currency.
"He is not expressing an intention to resign voluntarily for now," aides close to Lafazanis said.
From Bloomberg:
- KAMMENOS: GREEK PM TSIPRAS WAS BLACKMAILED AT EU SUMMIT
- STUBB SAYS FINLAND CAN'T AGREE TO NEW LOANS FOR GREECE
- KAMMENOS: INDEPENDENT GREEKS PARTY WON'T AGREE TO BAILOUT DEAL
- STUBB: NO EUROGROUP AGREEMENT ON BRIDGE FINANCING FOR GREECE
- STUBB: GREECE BRIDGE FINANCING HAS TO BE AGREED ON TOMORROW
»
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No shit.
Lawmakers just threatening until somebody slips them the suitcase.
TIME For Another Greek Snap Referendum (EU $150 Million)...
"STUBB SAYS FINLAND CAN'T AGREE TO NEW LOANS FOR GREECE"
No fucking shit? A country who's debt was unsustainable at 1/3 of what it is today shouldn't have anymore debt shoved up it ass?
Tell me, how much is real estate worth in a civil war torn country? Go ahead strip assets.
just get the war started already
Several EU countries have already stated that they want Greece out. Now it looks like they're going to make it so painful to stay in that the choice is to get out or face a civil war.
Finland is the only sober country so far.
Everyone including the IMF admit Greece is unsustainable without debt write-down.
But no write downs given just more loans.
This is a systematic shake-down to get assets and grab sovereign control.
I think that Germany is just pushing to get them out. Maybe their entire position isn't sane and sober, but it is pretty clear that if Greece stays in, it is going to be a continual drag on everybody else, so at least that portion of their policy is realistic. The bottom line here is that Greece isn't going to pay back its debts because it cannot pay back its debts. Both creditors and debtors are going to have to learn this lesson the hard way. IMO, if they kick the can this time, it'll break their feet over the next year or two.
GREEK PM TSIPRAS WAS BLACKMAILED AT EU SUMMIT
I told you they must have a video of him with little boys doing it "Greek style".
Tail wagging the dog again while insiders make out big on the volitility the news creates...
"... So the first rather chilling thing I’ve learned, from well-placed bankers, is there have been no conversations between the Bank of Greece, the government or regulators and Greece’s commercial banks about the technicalities of leaving the euro and adopting a new currency.
This is astonishing – and some would say pretty close to criminal – given that on Wednesday night the president of the European Union, former Polish prime minister Donald Tusk, was explicit that this weekend’s negotiations were all about whether Greece would stay in the eurozone.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/greece-has-made-no-preparation-for-a-grexit.html
Time for another final, final, final, final, final summit to save Greece.
Quick! Somebody get Obama over there to draw a red line!!!
Problem.
Solved.
Greek lawmakers. Is that an oxymoron?
¨Look, I´m not saying I´m gonna back the deal and I´m not saying I´m not gonna back the deal - in fact, I´m saying exactly the opposite...¨
Everyone, including the Greek people, KNOW these loans will not be paid back.
I suspect there is far more exposure to Greek and other toxic EU sovereign debt by U.S. financial institutions than is being being publicly acknowledged.
This is one of the core reasons MF Global assumed room temperature.
Which of the other PIIG countries CAN pay off their debts? Or even France? I wonder which domino falls after Greece....
Replace Greece with Detroit and let me know if your comment still seems plausible:
"This is a systematic shake-down to get assets and grab sovereign control."
Pro-Tip: Greece has nothing that anyone wants.
If this post was about Detroit and everyone stating that it is a waste of money to throw more money at Detroit... you would be chanting right with them: "FUCK DETROIT".
Fuck Greece. It could disappear tomorrow and no one would notice...
"Everyone including the IMF admit Greece is unsustainable without debt write-down."
Gee I wonder how that happened.
Kinda like I wonder how you can get 12 credit cards, all maxed out.
Some kind of evil conspiracy, not the debtor's responsbility in any way, clearly.
I thought the structure of the Eurozone is that no one can be chucked out. Is that incorrect?
DavidC
I have not read the treaties, but my understanding is that there are no provisions for kicking a country out. It is also my understanding that there are no provisions for a country leaving, nor are there any provisions for stopping a country from leaving. Assuming all of that is correct, then the correct procedure for kicking a country out would be to make it too painful for them to stay in.
Besides, since when did governments and supranational bureaucratic organizations start following their own rules anyway?
Besides, since when did governments and supranational bureaucratic organizations start following their own rules anyway?
"Laws are for thee, and not for me"
One thing is consistent throughout the world, it seems; there is no shortage of criminality and hypocrisy amongst politicians and bureacrats ... and they're baffled as to why people don't trust them ... (Scotty, beam me up....)
I believe you are correct. But that does not mean that they can make life so miserable that they leave voluntarily. Which is what is happening now. Greece should have taken the Time Out and hopefully get its act together and not become the Venezuela of Europe which they are on course to achieve.
Treaties are made to be broken.
Read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty
The easiest way to kick Greece out is that they commited fraud to enter and never met any of the continued debt obligations of the Maastricht.
+100
Greeks committed fraud? Fraud so obvious Corzine himself would blush while counting his money? Surely you jest!
and who hasn't committed fraud ?
And with THAT the European can-kicking turned into the whoopee-cushion-kicking ;-)
Looney
Lol. Anyone who didn't see this coming, is a moron, I'm looking at you Wallstreet. Gona get ugly, but I'm sure they will come up with some pretty crazy stuff in response. Never let a good crisis go to waste after all.
I've been following this page for days now. I've read this "civil war" scenario lots of times in posts and comments. This is very very highly unlikely, no matter what the financial situation is. I don't expect you to understand why, you'd have to live in the country to know. Don't count on it. From a Greek. Thank you for following our situation.
" I've read this "civil war" scenario lots of times in posts and comments. This is very very highly unlikely, no matter what the financial situation is. I don't expect you to understand why, you'd have to live in the country to know. Don't count on it. From a Greek. Thank you for following our situation."
Thank you for your perspective, any and all input from those who actually live in Greece is most welcome. One question for you, what do you think the people of Greece will do if this latest deal goes through? Considering that it appears to be nothing less than a total surrender of sovreignity to the Troika, do you think they will accept it peacefully or do you think there will be massive civil unrest?
I have no idea yet. We take it one day at a time at this stage. Greece is a very complicated case, zerohedge input only grasps a few aspects of it. But, still, to answer to your questions: 1) Some strikes are certain. I have no idea how it will play out at the moment. It's one day at a time situation. First we'll wait for the dust to settle. 2) Non compliance is certain I think. There is a possibility of massive unrest, but unrest in Greece is more often than not propelled by parties. So it boils down to how the new political landscape after the Tzifras (slang of the street for "signature") treachery settles. All scenarios are open both in the long and in the short run. People are more aware now, but this also depends on whether they think other peoples in Europe are ready to take the whole thing down as well. If a situation is consolidated, then I expect a brief peace and people reassessing the situation for a few months.
+double post+
Come on, let's get more creative with the double posts. Draw a picture or something.
Here's a picture of Obama getting a tonsil-wash from Reggie.
8====D ------ O:
So you're saying that if the EU starts auctioning off Greek assets to foreigners, you guys won't lift a finger to stop it? Because that's where you are heading. Greece will be strip mined if you don't get out and you will get a bigger and fatter Troika dick up your asses.
And people here in the US say there is no chance of a civil war in the US. They are dead wrong on that one.
Lifting a finger is one thing, civil war is another. I have no desire to argue over this. Either you "price-in" my insight or you don't. It's entirely up to you. I don't know about the US, but the two countries are not analogous at all.
I'm just pointing out that people often misjudge what is going on in their own country. My point with the civil war is that it is going to be forced upon you by outside interests. I live in the US and pay attention to what my government does, so I would say that I know a thing or two about neo-imperialism, which is what is at your doorstep. The people that Greece is dealing with will go through your country with impact wrenches, unbolt everything, then come in and take everything that isn't bolted down, and they'll do so with your government's blessing. If Greece does not exit, the only means of stopping them will be violence.
I am too tired to explain things to you at the moment. People in Greece have no guns for the most part. How would they wage war? Also the army and policeforces now hold little allegiance, they are not real "royalists" so to speak. Army is made up of ordinary citizens (drafts) and policemen are deeply affected by the austerity policies. Greeks don't really believe in violence at the moment. When we see the amount of violence in the US, we tend to laugh it off. You just have a different perspective on life as a whole, based on your experiences, but over here things are different. There is a possibility of external forces intervening (after all Greece has been a toything of TPTB for its whole existence - you have to understand that we are used to this situation), but it will be small scale. About impact wrenches, we don't fear those guys. They have already imposed two memorandums with little success. Why would a 3rd succeed. The government won't bless it, they are used to cajoling the public. They might be sucking us, but I doubt they can take "lock,stock and barrel". It's very unlikely. Just look at the "privatisation" projected and actuality charts.
I'm just saying, I know what kind of predators are on your doorstep. To complicate matters, you're part of NATO. Move the wrong way, and you'll have the CIA in there agitating for a color revolution. They will use violence to get it started if need be. They have done as much in the past. I'm desperately trying to warn you that Greece is not safe from outside interests. Don't become complacent. You are dealing with some real sockos, both on the EU side and on the NATO side.
I'm telling you that ALL Greeks know that Greece HAS ALWAYS BEEN a playground for CIA and whatnot and you're warning me not to be complacent. Right....Greece has always been a cold war theatre, for whatever reasons. You somehow fail to see that and act all surprised now that a new "cold war" arises. This is a given. The economics of the situation is another matter altogether and this is why I'm here to get some international perspective. The average zerohedge poster is oblivious to a lot of facts about Greece. I do appreciate your concern though.
Yes, and you've had coups in living memory. And the US is getting desperate. The EU is getting desperate. If you want some international perspective, the unwritten rules outside of Greece are changing, and this is happening for economic reasons. The people in charge in the west feel their power slipping. They are getting more dangerous. That is what Western powers will act on, and they will be acting on your country.
We are all dangerous. But still I doubt a traditional civil war will happen :) FYI, people took money from the ATMs and went on to drink and party all night. I can't blame you for not understanding the situation. Let's just say that all scenarios are open at the moment. I would somewhat downplay the violent ones in favor of the political/ghandi/referendum ones. We still have a lot of line of defenses before the NWO can totally win. We are not in the state outsiders believe us to be looking at debt to GDP.
What the fuck is wrong with your tarded brain, vaquero? So what if the guy lives in greece. He doesn't know shit. This is like asking some walmat employee in Kentucky what americans will do. HE HAS NO FUCKING CLUE.
I agree with your assessment of what's going to happen to Greece, but they won't be the first to be sodomized, beaten to near death and then dumped on the curb (metaphorically speaking) by the global financial system. In fact, its probably the inability of the populations of a country to organize and act against such an amorphous and intangible attack by a largely faceless, nameless foe that makes it such a compelling model for creating and resolving sovereign bankruptcies.
Greece isn't the first, and won't be the last, but I'm sure glad I'm not living there (although everybody will get their turn on the receiving end eventually).
I just can't figure out why those Greeks haven't risen up and demanded a return to its third-world glory days of grinding poverty, worthless currency, frequent default, despots, wars, and revolutions.
It just makes no sense!
... " I don't expect you to understand why, you'd have to live in the country to know."
... I can understand your logic as a Greek citizen and to understand the logic of non-Greeks like myself that belongs to the 'armchair critics' anonymous, this is how some people (like me) might see the current fiasco ...
... and a bit of historical Trojan analogy ...
... before Greece joined the EU, the Squid (or Great Satan/Goldman Sucks/Goldmanites/etc, depending who you talk to) created a "wooden horse" and hid all of Greece's debt inside ... the Squid pretended to back off and sail away ... and the Europeans pulled the wooden horse into their credit city gates as a victory trophy; ... and now, the Greeks "wooden" pay their debts ...
... and here's some Greek historical monetary system repetition ... :
... "The need to reform the Greek monetary system became urgent in the mid-1860s when Spain abandoned the monetary system that was based on the distilo. At that time, international trade transactions were made in currency directly convertible into precious metals at a fixed rate, and, therefore, Greece had to adopt a monetary system that would be acceptable by other countries. The Greek governments expected that by joining the LMU [Latin Monetary Union] the country could enjoy monetary stability. First, Greece would no longer face money scarcity since domestic transactions would also be carried out in French francs; second, tying the drachma to the French franc at a fixed rate would reduce exchange rate fluctuations; and, third, Greece would improve her solvency in the international capital market of Paris."
... source: >>> http://marketmonetarist.com/2012/06/13/remember-the-last-time-greece-was-kicked-out-of-a-monetary-union/
... IMO, either GREXIT and totally default and be debt-free because there is no way to pay off that approx. 200% debt/GDP ratio; and/or face civil war, which is quite a probability; and/or ask Greece's "other friends" ... BRICS/AIIB ... for help ...
... I recall the Soviet Union's dissolution of all their debts on Christmas day 1991 was a gift to each soviet state as they all had survived and moved on ... and the most successful was Russia ... I'm sure Greece will survive too as they had survived in the 1860's ...
Never even heard of Greek history since 146 BC.
Mein lieber Herr Totenasch, what a revelation. At least your simple enough to acknowledge your absolute ignorance. Lower your skirt, your tribalism is showing.
lets see, the people voted down austerity, politicians disobeyed and are prepared to sell public assets to private companies...if i were a greek unemployed college grad with no prospects whatsoever i might be inclined to burn down those private assets....but hey thats me...i'm sure the greeks will come to more rational terms
Ya everyone is paying so much attention to the last one.
Dear Greece,
We're not authoritarian fascists, we just want you to do exactly what we say at all times.
Love,
Germany
Basically speaking, yes. In essence, no.
Dear Overlords,
Gladly.
PS: Please send more euros ASAP.
Respectfully Yours,
Greece
The ones doing the threatening aren't interested in money. But it doesn't matter. Even without them, this will pass Parliament with support from the pro-austerity parties, who will run to vote with both hands.
There is a big difference between being Blackmailed and being told, "We will cut your nuts off!"
So the question is just how stupid is the Greek Parliament? So don't forget to tune in the same bat-time to the same bat-channel for the exciting episode of "Batshit Crazy"........
Greece should change its name to South Ukraine and it will get all the money it wants. Trouble is, the USA would then probably ship in a few hundred homicidal Nazi-type mercenaries to seal the deal.
Fox News WT7ed Tspiras yesterday. Sheeeesh.
"Fuck me???? No MOTHER FUCK YOU!"
Hermaphrodites in love?
*....Check the pitch....pitch is out we're breaking up we're breaking up!....."
Samurai Tsunami tomorrow.
Promise?
NSA to Merkel: You owe us one.
More like : NSA to Merkel : MAKE THE DEAL OR ELSE WE REVEAL ALL YOUR SECRETS. WE CAN LET GREECE FALL INTO RUSSIAN/CHINESE HANDS.
no, of course no, they canno,t greece is south door of europ, you not let nato loose control of any gate, are you mad ?
Tick tock....bitchez!
It's only a matter of time. The known unknown is how long.
:insert sound of 60 minutes sound bite here:
jeopardy jingle
That works too.
Amateurs.
I'm thinking the theme to 2001.
Carmina Burana
In laymans terms that means the suitase was too light.
Getting seriously bored, vicariously I need blood to keep me entertained
Well we sure know who drew First Blood.
Greece just missed another payment to the IMF again btw.
That's two billion DOLARES and counting...
That's right Finland! Long deer jerky and pickled herring!
Blackmailed - The old online porn browsing records trick.
This one might actually be worth it as far as "watching" goes.
Ah, yes....
COOL SUMMER RAIN
oh here we go again!! Yawners!!
Selling out to the Euro financial bankster vampires has it's price.
Agreeing to that deal is like pretty much saying "Here take my country for free and enslave my children"
Thats what it is, pure and simple.
No Shit, Sherlock. Try applying those "terms" to the finnish people, see what they have to say
So the Germans just tipped their hand and showed the world (and the other members) what they are all about, for possibly nothing?
Awesome
The Italian PM was not happy about the Greeks getting greeked.
Same probably goes for all the PIIGS.
I think all those who received a bailout (Portugal, Spain, Ireland) initially adopted quite a harsh approach towards Greece. "We had a bailout, we adhered to austerity and are now doing quite well. Take your medicine and do the same!"
Obviously they do not admit to their stats being adjusted in order to show a fake improvement. Or that unemployment is going down because many youths and adults are leaving their country to look for jobs abroad, hence they are no longer counted as jobless.
I don't know about Ireland but from what I've read Portugal ended up on the fence and Spain became a bit more conciliatory at the weekend.
Yep 70 Years of "We're Changed, We're The Nice Guys Now" is down The Shitter! This whole Eurozone Forever Growing Debt Ponzi has hit The Wall (The Berlin Wall) and from here on out it's A Dog Eat Dog World. The sooner we can get our heads around this fact the better off we'll all be. :) Marty
I guess being murdered by the population was unacceptable.
DWN is reporting that the agreement is a diabolical trap. Greece has to agreed to the terms before the money. And Merkel may not give Greece the money anyway.
Too bad we didn't do to Germany after WWII what they are doing now to Greece.
I heard we let 1,700,000+ of their men die of starvation. That's kinda bad...
I don't know if that is true and it would be very bad but zee Germans killed millions in WWII.
I have looked and there does seem to be debate, not only if it happened, but the numbers. My bad for not checking earlier. But if true, we did it after they surrendered. Not cool.
It's true. As for "zee Germans killed millions in WWII," you need to look at the Treaty of Versailles and all of the players from then on, including Churchill and Stalin.
Although the Marshall Plan enabled Germany’s people to rebuild a free society and a free economy, a predecessor blueprint for genocide became the on-going principal occupation policy directive – a policy that aimed at the destruction of a nation’s people. It was the Morganthau Plan, drawn up by America’s wartime Zionist Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morganthau, and his closest advisory, Harry Dexter White (a member of a Communist espionage ring in Washington while he served as Assistant Secretary of State).
It aimed at the permanent destruction of Germany’s industrial heart and the consequent death through starvation and disease of millions and tens of millions of Germans. Time magazine has aptly called it “history’s most terrifying peace”.
The conservative newsletter, Review of World Affairs, quotes the plight of the German people after the war as follows from a confidential memorandum prepared by an eminent European economist:
“Since the end of the war about 3,000,000 people, mostly women and children and over-aged men, have been killed in eastern Germany and south-eastern Europe; about 15,000,000 people have been deported or had to flee from their homesteads and are on the road. About 25 per cent of these people, over 3,000,000, have perished. About 4,000,000 men and women have been deported to eastern Europe and Russia as slaves….” Quoted by Sen. Homer Capehart in speech before U.S. Senate, Feb. 5, 1946.
Dr. Lawrence Meyer, executive secretary of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, after a tour of Germany at the time stated: “About 16,000,000 German refugees east of the Oder are being deported from their homes. It has been estimated that already 10,000,000 have been driven out. The human tragedy and suffering caused by this ’Volkswanderung’ are unparalleled in history…”
An authentic eye-witness reported…
“A large barge is slowly being towed across the Oder River. In it, lying on straw, are 300 children ranging from 2 to 14 years of age. There is hardly a sign of life in the whole group. Their hollow eyes, their swollen bellies, knees, and feet are telltale signs of starvation. These are merely the vanguard of hundreds of thousands—millions of homeless, shattered, hungry, sick, helpless, hopeless human beings fleeing westward – west of the Oder and Neisse rivers.
“A trust in God—in his goodness and mercy—these are the only hope of Germany today. And thank God in many there is still faith in God against which the gates of hell have stormed in vain during the past decade.” (Capehart)
well remember, the war started because Germany invaded Poland...
Of course so did the Bolsheviks - disproportionately even mostly Jewish at the top at the time [until well into Stalin's purges]... 10 days later
curiously, no one declared war on *them*.
And *they* were allowed to rule ALL of Poland thereafter, and they murdered and imprisoned tens of thousands.
Now - we say "The Russians" invaded Poland...
double white-washing the heavy role of Jews in the violence inflicted on Eastern Europe since the largely Jewish Bolshevik coup took over Russia.
Well put; as Putin said, 80-85% of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish. Or as the Irish Savant acknowledges:
"Now I'm not 100% correct in claiming the Dresden holocaust goes unrecorded. Over the last few years at this time the city has begun to quietly mark the occasion. But it does so within the severe constraints ordained by the Official Narrative. This in effect means that Germans can discreetly mourn their dead but only in the context of the ritual self-abasement that has been inculcated into their psyche over the last half century. Namely that any such mourning be contextualised by the acknowledgement of exclusive German guilt for the whole disaster and that German suffering was in no way comparable to the Official Holocau$t.
"Oy vey, only Jews can suffer."
Crimes and Mercies: The Fate of German Civilians Under Allied Occupation 1944-1950 -James Bacque-
The Germans were just defending themselves against Russian, French, and English agression.
yeah, thats not nice.
Other Losses -James Bacque-
We did. It was called the armistice and ushered in the complete humiliation of the german people which lead to WW2
Read again. He talked about WWII and not WWI. Btw, Germany was given a 50% debt relief of their combined WWI and WWII debt in 1953 which stood at 200% of GDP. One of the forgivers was Greece...
Ironic that some 60+ years later that same Germany denies Greece debt relief. A good deed never goes unpunished.
This deed is going to haunt Krautstan.
It's a shame that instead of debt relief after WWI, the bankers of France and Britain refused to negotiate, as promised, with German leaders and elected to punish them so severely financially that the National Socialists were brought to power - the latter financed by Wall Street.
The productive German people - like America’s productive middle class - is targeted as the victims in this latest transfer of value to the bankers. Like parasites, the bankers have infested the politics of Germany to use the German people as their paymasters for reparations again – this time for their planned political and fiscal global governance, with its economic companion, world socialism.
It's almost as if there were some sort of plan... lucky I think all conspiracy theories are crazy, otherwise it might be disturbing to me. Oh look! A funny cat video!
Use your imagination. What more could “we” (the bankers) have done to Germany after WWII?: Give all of it to Stalin and not just the eastern part, return to Dresden with helicopter gunships to “light up” the remaining refugees, allow more mass starvation, deport more millions to the Soviets as slaves, and fly in more bankers from London and New York to lock up the German industry and infrastructure? …and the list goes on.
In The Silent Holocaust, The Irish Savant wrote on February 14, 2015:
“Now that the Auschwitz Show(™) is winding to a close and the exhausted participants return to normality another holocaust from the same time passes off almost unnoticed. Over three days beginning February 13 1945 the beautiful historical city of Dresden ('The Florence On The Elbe') packed with civilians, refugees from the East and Allied prisoners-of-war was systematically pulverised into rubble. Kurt Vonnegut, a well-treated POW incarcerated there during the fire-bombing, provides a chilling personal account of the atrocity in his novel Slaughterhouse 5, pointing out that "more people died there in the firestorm, in that one big flame, than died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined."
http://irishsavant.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-silent-holocaust.html
«Too bad we didn't do to Germany after WWII what they are doing now to Greece. »
We did. Read and reflect upon Thomas Goodrich's book Hellstorm.
You might also want to read about the treaty of Versailles...It is quite evident we also did it after WW 1....
Nothing is as it seems.
Chandos
The San Andreas fault is moving at the speed of light when compared to this unfolding Greek Tragedy...
So wait... Deal or no deal?
There is no way this deal is going to be upheld, there is no support for it or legal basis to enforce it in Greece.
The lawmakers will not sign up to be invaded by the IMF.
The new deal has in it a mandate that IMF officials will take key positions in the Greek govt to ensure compliance and enforcement of new taxes. . . . the odds of the Greek people paying taxes to foreigners who invaded and took control of their govt. . . without pitch forks and torches. . . not favorable for the banksters.
This could possibly/ very easily lead to a civil war in greece if pushed through.
The deal amounts to an IMF/Banker invasion/ coup d'etat of sorts.
looks like civil war is their only way out left.
As The World Turns 1956 with CBS Eye - YouTube
Another great soap opera TV show in the makings.
It's amazing the way You Know Who can print up as much money as they want; loan it to a Vichy government at usurious interest rates; wait a few years for the morons to default; and then swoop in and seize an entire nation's bought-and-paid-for civil infrastructure under the guise of getting their fake money back.
Death to the moneychangers
Where are the Greek kids? Lazy little fuckers should be outside sharpening pitchforks and lighting torches.
All in 3 x Short SPY......Not
The more important "deal" today is the Iran nuclear program talks....
http://qz.com/451301/expect-a-nuclear-deal-with-iran-soon-and-another-ye...
Yea right - like those 2 nations can trust each other on that one.
My quess, they have to purchase GE nuclear plants to comply, back then it was ABB.
Rumsfeld was on ABB board during deal withNorth Korea - Swissinfo
I'm wondering. Does Germany really need to make an example of Greece? If they stay, it's gonna be bad. If they go, it's gonna be bad.
It's just gonna be bad. France and the other PIIGS are really gonna learn a lesson out if this? Where is the "example" that will be made of Greece?
I think it's just gonna be bad and there is no getting around it.
Dying time is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHU6K47qgc8
It happens to individuals and companies all the time. Compare the DOW to that of 20 years ago and you will see how many are no longer there.
My way of thinking and you also mention the GS fraud in another post, the creditors took a risk when they issued those loans under false pretenses.
Why should the borrower be the only one to pay the consequences when the lender is just as guilty?
Let the house come down on the greed and bring back sanity. As long as no one goes hungry and has shelter there will be another day. The biggest problem again is greed, lack of compassion for the innocents caught up in this bs and egos. Everyone thinks they are right and don't give a damn.
Honestly as bad as it would be either way, they don't care about Greece. Greece "breaking bad" is nothing compared to France "breaking bad" and the latter event needs to be stopped cold. France is a bankrupt socialist super power that's overrun with disgruntled Muslims, there are so many ways that could go bad.
The opportunity was there after the No vote for the gov't to go back to the negotiating table with a Plan B (nationalize the Banks, alternative currency, etc). They had the momentum. What they did was put in a new finance minister to the table with NO alternative plan. The Greeks just basically showed their 2-8 off suit to the poker table, instead of going all in. The Germans, of course, will make them pay for that in spades. Even if the parliament votes it down, what does the gov't do... since they already folded?? The longer the banks are closed with no alternative then the crumbs that come from Brussels, the worse it will get.
It will be worse for Greece, short term, getting out of the Euro... but Tsipras had the people behind him after the vote. He's in a vice now... the faster he goes, the better. Tsipras just made Greece the punch line on any number of jokes. F'ing coward.
Of course it's falling apart! Selling remaining state assets via Luxemburg will surely be met with applause in Athens, LMAO.
This shit gets better by the second...
after dallas, after dynasty, after beverly hills, here comes : ATHEN'S LIFE, even the fucking brazilian TV soaps are totally nuked by the gap of quality of intrigue and how storyline is sword handled.
The same letter just went to the Finland FinMin from the "Euro". His displeasure doesn't amount to a hill of beans as well.
I think this video contains all of the options Germany is proposing to Greece. Break the deal, face the wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjHXpFiegA
All fascist mumblings from Finland that's all.
Varoufakis great gaming strategist? You are kidding me.
Yea it was setup. Syriza electoral win was a Setup. and they never really took the power even appointed by Tsipras defense minister was right wing nut.
This is how you negotiate:
First you set up your negotiating positions . invite and arrest troika book and release, nationalize banks, pass all the laws in your manifesto.
Trigger their implementation every two weeks. Get MOA for loans from China and Russia, sign gas/silk road deal, reconcile with Turkey about Cyprus, cut military spending to 1% from 2.4% and police spending, trigger their implementation every two weeks.
Arrest bankers oligarchs, introduce capital control.., dual currency with drachma peg for 5 years to euro so you do not have to change accounting.
Start clock on Euro exit, declare default on all debts.
Invite separate EU countries for negotiations to Athens separately.
That what I call gaming. With all this and EU markets in turmoil because of it you would have gotten what you wanted. Mr. Varoufakis.
but all of it was just a charade for Greek peasants As I repeated on ZH numerous times.
PODEMOS if you are not fake as Syriza hear me out.
Hahahahahahhaha
Do you think Russia or China would simply HAND them tens of billions of dollars? Those are two of the toughest bargaining countries on earth. Greece would have to SELL them the country to get money from them.
Greece is a deadbeat country, Russia and China are not in the habit of GIVING money away to deadbeats. They must get something equally valuable in return.
The country, Greece, is the right climate for the Chinese. Watch, they are in bigtime, dumpin $dollars in bonds and T-'s.. and then watch the fallout...
Don't peg to the Euro, that is insane.. inflate until the people understand that they have to put in a hard day's work to make it out of the fog.. The Siren of the Euro is calling Greece to the rocks...
It may be the right climate, but everything is too expensive and they can't control the people.
China has already made HUGE inroads into Africa, where they can make easy profits. There are no profits to be made in Greece.
Hahahahahahahahaha. Wake up man and drop this shit you are smoking. Take some facts.
Russia and China want navy bases in Mediterranean and will pay big bucks for them, also billions $ for Greece leaving NATO as well. The changing of military hardware of the same quality as the western would save Greeks countless billions in itself. No to mention Gas and oil pipelines.
There is plenty of money Greeks can make if they open their eyes. Turkey already open and warmed up relations with Russia and China. Turks already had their maidan and know what the west has in store do them, Greek type of slavery.
If army of Greece and Turkey unite US can't take on them , too weak with Russia standing behind. US power is winding down and hence this hysteria.
I am not sure about China or Russia wanting Greece to leave NATO (or the EU). Greece has a veto vote in those two organizations... that is worth a bribecommission payment.
just get your Dow 18k hats on the Ponzi is back on
the only game in town that keeps the 'tables' turning and looking like a winner....
In other news, Wolfgang Schauble to be the next greek finance minister. /sarc
Turn off the /sarc.
Still time for it all to fall apart. I haven't given up hope just yet.
By the way Greece, if you give / pledge the airports and whatever else is demanded you'll have trouble getting them back after that den of thieves will already have sold them to their cronies at 10 cents on Euro.
DEFAULT while you can, NOW.
Tell them you are bankrupt, there will be no more repayments of anything.
They are printing 60 Billion a month just to keep themselves afloat, in a couple of months of reasonable effort you could easily print that in Drachma, enough to get you started on the road to recovery.
Save your own banks.
Look after your own people.
Kickstart your economy.
FUCK 'EM. WALK AWAY.
DOUKAS SAYS DEAL WILL PASS WITH TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY, TELLS CNBC
more "blackmail"?
If I saw Tsipras hanging from a lamp post I'd probably smile a little
kick the can down the road fools.
take what you can
submit
They will pass anything with opposition vote they already voted with Tsipras yesterday.
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