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Yanis Varoufakis: "Merkel's Control Over The Eurogroup Is Absolute, They Are Beyond The Law"

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Submitted by Harry Lambert via The New Statesman,

Read the full Q&A Transcript here

Greece has finally reached an agreement with its creditors. The specifics have not yet been published, but it is clear that the deal signed is more punitive and demanding than the one that its government has spent the past five months desperately trying to resist.

The accord follows 48 hours in which Germany demanded control of Greece’s finances or its withdrawal from the euro. Many observers across Europe were stunned by the move. Yanis Varoufakis was not. When I spoke with Greece’s former finance minister last week, I asked him whether any deal struck in the days ahead would be good for his country.

“If anything it will be worse,” he said. “I trust and hope that our government will insist on debt restructuring, but I can’t see how the German finance minister [Wolfgang Schäuble] is ever going to sign up to this. If he does, it will be a miracle.”

It’s a miracle the Greek people are likely to be waiting for a long time for. On Friday night, when Greece’s parliament agreed to an austerity programme that voters had overwhelmingly rejected in a referendum five days earlier, a deal seemed imminent. A partial write-off of its debt owed to the so-called "Troika" – the IMF, the European Central bank and the European Commission – was unlikely but possible. Now, despite its government’s capitulation, Greece has no debt relief and may yet be thrown out of the Eurozone.

Varoufakis, who resigned a week ago, has been criticised for not signing an agreement sooner, but he said the deal that Greece was offered was not made in good faith – or even one that the Troika wanted completed. In an hour-long telephone interview with the New Statesman, he called the creditors’ proposals – those agreed to by the Athens government on Friday night, which now seem somehow generous – “absolutely impossible, totally non-viable and toxic …[they were] the kind of proposals you present to another side when you don’t want an agreement.”

Varoufakis added: “This country must stop extending and pretending, we must stop taking on new loans pretending that we’ve solved the problem, when we haven’t; when we have made our debt even less sustainable on condition of further austerity that even further shrinks the economy; and shifts the burden further onto the have-nots, creating a humanitarian crisis.”

In Varoufakis’s account, the Troika never genuinely negotiated during his five months as finance minister. He argued that Alexis Tsipras’s Syriza government was elected to renegotiate an austerity programme that had clearly failed; over the past five years it has put a quarter of Greeks out of work, and created the worst depression anywhere in the developed world since the 1930s. But he thinks that Greece’s creditors simply led him on.

A short-term deal could, Varoufakis said, have been struck soon after Syriza came to power in late January. “Three or four reforms” could have been agreed, and restrictions on liquidity eased by the ECB in return.

Instead, “The other side insisted on a ‘comprehensive agreement’, which meant they wanted to talk about everything. My interpretation is that when you want to talk about everything, you don’t want to talk about anything.” But a comprehensive agreement was impossible. “There were absolutely no [new] positions put forward on anything by them.”

Varoufakis said that Schäuble, Germany’s finance minister and the architect of the deals Greece signed in 2010 and 2012, was “consistent throughout”. “His view was ‘I’m not discussing the programme – this was accepted by the previous [Greek] government and we can’t possibly allow an election to change anything.

 “So at that point I said ‘Well perhaps we should simply not hold elections anymore for indebted countries’, and there was no answer. The only interpretation I can give [of their view] is, ‘Yes, that would be a good idea, but it would be difficult. So you either sign on the dotted line or you are out.’”

It is well known that Varoufakis was taken off Greece’s negotiating team shortly after Syriza took office; he was still in charge of the country’s finances but no longer in the room. It’s long been unclear why. In April, he said vaguely that it was because “I try and talk economics in the Eurogroup” – the club of 19 finance ministers whose countries use the Euro – “which nobody does.” I asked him what happened when he did.

 “It’s not that it didn’t go down well – there was point blank refusal to engage in economic arguments. Point blank. You put forward an argument that you’ve really worked on, to make sure it’s logically coherent, and you’re just faced with blank stares. It is as if you haven’t spoken. What you say is independent of what they say. You might as well have sung the Swedish national anthem – you’d have got the same reply.

This weekend divisions surfaced within the Eurogroup, with countries split between those who seemed to want a “Grexit” and those demanding a deal. But Varoufakis said they were always been united in one respect: their refusal to renegotiate.

“There were people who were sympathetic at a personal level, behind closed doors, especially from the IMF.” He confirmed that he was referring to Christine Lagarde, the IMF director. “But then inside the Eurogroup [there were] a few kind words and that was it: back behind the parapet of the official version. … Very powerful figures look at you in the eye and say ‘You’re right in what you’re saying, but we’re going to crunch you anyway’.”

Varoufakis was reluctant to name individuals, but added that the governments that might have been expected to be the most sympathetic towards Greece were actually their “most energetic enemies”. He said that the “greatest nightmare” of those with large debts – the governments of countries like Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland – “was our success”. “Were we to succeed in negotiating a better deal, that would obliterate them politically: they would have to answer to their own people why they didn’t negotiate like we were doing.”

He suggested that Greece’s creditors had a strategy to keep his government busy and hopeful of a compromise, but in reality they were slowly suffering and eventually desperate.

 “They would say we need all your data on the fiscal path on which Greek finds itself, all the data on state-owned enterprises. So we spent a lot of time trying to provide them with it and answering questionnaires and having countless meetings.

 “So that would be the first phase. The second phase was they’d ask us what we intended to do on VAT. They would then reject our proposal but wouldn’t come up with a proposal of their own. And then, before we would get a chance to agree on VAT, they would shift to another issue, like privatisation. They would ask what we want to do about privatisation: we put something forward, they would reject it. Then they’d move onto another topic, like pensions, from there to product markets, from there to labour relations. … It was like a cat chasing its own tail.

His conclusion was succinct. “We were set up.”

And he was adamant about who is responsible. I asked whether German attitudes control the outlook of the Eurogroup. Varoufakis went further. “Oh completely and utterly. Not attitudes – the finance minister of Germany. It is all like a very well-tuned orchestra and he is the director.

 “Only the French minister [Michel Sapin] made noises that were different from the German line, and those noises were very subtle. You could sense he had to use very judicious language, to be seen not to oppose. And in the final analysis, when Dr Schäuble responded and effectively determined the official line, the French minister would always fold.”

If Schäuble was the unrelenting enforcer, the German chancellor Angela Merkel presented a different face. While Varoufakis never dealt with her, he said, “From my understanding, she was very different.  She tried to placate the Prime Minister [Tsipras] – she said ‘We’ll find a solution, don’t worry about it, I won’t let anything awful happen, just do your homework and work with the institutions, work with the Troika; there can be no dead end here.’”

The divide seems to have been brief, and perhaps even deliberate. Varoufakis thinks that Merkel and Schäuble’s control over the Eurogroup is absolute, and that the group itself is beyond the law.

Days before Varoufakis’s resignation on 6 July, when Tsipras called the referendum on the Eurogroup’s belated and effectively unchanged offer, the Eurogroup issued a communiqué without Greek consent. This was against Eurozone convention. The move was quietly criticised by some in the press before being overshadowed by the build-up to the referendum, but Varoufakis considered it pivotal.

When Donald Tusk, the European Council President, tried to issue the communiqué without him, Varoufakis consulted Eurogroup clerks – could Tusk exclude a member state? The meeting was briefly halted. After a handful of calls, a lawyer turned to him and said, “Well, the Eurogroup does not exist in law, there is no treaty which has convened this group.”

 “So,” Varoufakis said, “What we have is a non-existent group that has the greatest power to determine the lives of Europeans. It’s not answerable to anyone, given it doesn’t exist in law; no minutes are kept; and it’s confidential. No citizen ever knows what is said within . . . These are decisions of almost life and death, and no member has to answer to anybody.”

Events this weekend seem to support Varoufakis’ account. On Saturday evening, a memo leaked that showed Germany was suggesting Greece should take a “timeout” from the Eurozone. By the end of the day, Schäuble’s recommendation was the conclusion of the Eurogroup’s statement. It’s unclear how that happened; the body operates in secret. While Greeks hung on reports of their fate this weekend, no minutes were released from any meetings.

The referendum of 5 July has also been rapidly forgotten. It was preemptively dismissed by the Eurozone, and many people saw it as a farce – a sideshow that offered a false choice and created false hope, and was only going to ruin Tsipras when he later signed the deal he was campaigning against. As Schäuble supposedly said, elections cannot be allowed to change anything. But Varoufakis believes that it could have changed everything. On the night of the referendum he had a plan, Tsipras just never quite agreed to it.

The Eurozone can dictate terms to Greece because it is no longer fearful of a Grexit. It is convinced that its banks are now protected if Greek banks default. But Varoufakis thought that he still had some leverage: once the ECB forced Greece’s banks to close, he could act unilaterally.

He said he spent the past month warning the Greek cabinet that the ECB would close Greece’s banks to force a deal. When they did, he was prepared to do three things: issue euro-denominated IOUs; apply a “haircut” to the bonds Greek issued to the ECB in 2012, reducing Greece’s debt; and seize control of the Bank of Greece from the ECB.

None of the moves would constitute a Grexit but they would have threatened it. Varoufakis was confident that Greece could not be expelled by the Eurogroup; there is no legal provision for such a move. But only by making Grexit possible could Greece win a better deal. And Varoufakis thought the referendum offered Syriza the mandate they needed to strike with such bold moves – or at least to announce them.

He hinted at this plan on the eve of the referendum, and reports later suggested this was what cost him his job. He offered a clearer explanation.

As the crowds were celebrating on Sunday night in Syntagma Square, Syriza’s six-strong inner cabinet held a critical vote. By four votes to two, Varoufakis failed to win support for his plan, and couldn’t convince Tsipras. He had wanted to enact his “triptych” of measures earlier in the week, when the ECB first forced Greek banks to shut. Sunday night was his final attempt. When he lost his departure was inevitable.

 “That very night the government decided that the will of the people, this resounding ‘No’, should not be what energised the energetic approach [his plan]. Instead it should lead to major concessions to the other side: the meeting of the council of political leaders, with our Prime Minister accepting the premise that whatever happens, whatever the other side does, we will never respond in any way that challenges them. And essentially that means folding. … You cease to negotiate.”

Varoufakis’s resignation brought an end to a four-and-a-half year partnership with Tsipras, a man he met for the first time in late 2010. An aide to Tsipras had sought him out after his criticisms of George Papandreou’s government, which accepted the first Troika bailout in 2010.

 “He [Tsipras] wasn’t clear back then what his views were, on the drachma versus the euro, on the causes of the crises, and I had very, well shall I say, ‘set views’ on what was going on. A dialogue begun … I believe that I helped shape his views of what should be done.”

And yet Tsipras diverged from him at the last. He understands why. Varoufakis could not guarantee that a Grexit would work. After Syriza took power in January, a small team had, “in theory, on paper,” been thinking through how it might. But he said that, “I’m not sure we would manage it, because managing the collapse of a monetary union takes a great deal of expertise, and I’m not sure we have it here in Greece without the help of outsiders.” More years of austerity lie ahead, but he knows Tsipras has an obligation to “not let this country become a failed state”.

Their relationship remains “extremely amicable”, he said, although when we spoke on Thursday, they hadn’t talked all week.

Despite failing to strike a new deal, Varoufakis does not seem disappointed. He told me he is “on top of the world.”

 “I no longer have to live through this hectic timetable,” he said, “which was absolutely inhuman, just unbelievable. I was on two hours sleep every day for five months. … I’m also relieved I don’t have to sustain any longer this incredible pressure to negotiate for a position I find difficult to defend.”

His relief is unsurprising. Varoufakis was appointed to negotiate with a Europe that didn’t want to talk, no longer feared a “Grexit” and effectively controlled the Greek treasury’s bank accounts. Many commentators think he was foolish, and the local and foreign journalists I met last week in Athens spoke of him as if he was a criminal. Some people will never forgive him for strangling a nascent recovery by reopening negotiations. And others will blame him for whichever harsh fate awaits Greece this week.

But Varoufakis seemed unconcerned. Throughout our conversation he never raised his voice. He came across as imperturbably calm, and often chuckled. His conservation wasn’t tinged with regret; he appears to be treating the loss of power as ambivalently as he treated its acquisition.

Now he will return to a half-finished book on the crisis, mull the new offers publishers have already begun to send him, and likely return to the University of Athens after two years teaching in Texas.

By resigning and not signing a deal he abhorred, he has kept both his conscience free and his reputation intact. His country remains locked in a trap he spent years opposing and months fighting, but he has escaped.

*  *  *

Read the full Q&A Transcript here

 

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Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:33 | 6305718 This is it
This is it's picture

Only now you have the balls to say that?

Maybe you too, gotta jump soon.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:35 | 6305733 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Still paying your taxes and getting zero return (negative in real terms) on your savings?

That's a good sheep...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:40 | 6305755 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Time for Mr. Varoufakis to make some friends in the Greek military. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:47 | 6305790 semperfi
semperfi's picture

the shit-show ending civil war draws nearer....

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:50 | 6305800 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I fail to see how there has yet to be an all out rebellion within Syriza due to this.  

Tsipras' statement just now admits the new program will cause Greece's economy to contract even more than it was already anticipated to.

This is truly insane. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:51 | 6305808 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

And yet, no one DARES speak of who has control over Merkel.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:54 | 6305828 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Or who's listening to every word she speaks and who still has an occupation army in her country ...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:11 | 6305919 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

New Phd university degree course available in September....

 

 "How to Suicide a Protestor #101"

aka

"Fourth Reich Gestapo #101"

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:21 | 6306004 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

"Varoufakis thinks thatMerkel and Schäuble’s control over the Eurogroup is absolute, and that the group itself is beyond the law.

 

We have one of those over here too.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:40 | 6306074 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the eurogroup is nothing else then the meeting of the finance ministers of the eurozone, a subset of the meeting of the finance ministers of the whole EU

there is no comparison with anything else, anywhere. and so it's arcane, and can be the target of such idiotic statements such as this one from V.

what he does not note is that he himself was a member of the EuroGroup, and that he managed to get them all mad as hell... even though half of them was willing to support him

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:46 | 6306127 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Idiotic? Only an idiot could read this interview and come to the conclusion that V lost support of half of the Eurogroup. Which part of "refusal to negotiate" is escaping you?

To me the striking news to come out of this was how TPTB managed to scare the rest of the PIGS into being the most vocal attackers. Animal Farm has now fully come onto the scene.

As always, divide and conquer wins the day. Your views fitting fully within this theater of the absurd.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:59 | 6306200 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

and which part of "refusal to negotiate" can Varoufakis or you... prove? I can prove that Varoufakis - from his own damn words - was completely sure he knew what he was doing

meanwhile, the very fact that he did not put the Greek state's finances in such order to do longer negotiations is a proof that he failed as finance minister

or the fact that he would have preferred to eat his leather jacket before he would ever have balanced a budget. ah, have your hero "economist" academic diva

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:18 | 6306261 Eirik Magnus Larssen
Eirik Magnus Larssen's picture

The ECB refuses to raise ELA provisions despite this morning's tentative agreement, which means Greece's banks will not yet re-open. This is detrimental to what little is left of the Greek economy, and it ensures that the implementation of the agreement which Tsipras has signed becomes all but impossible.

The hashtag #ThisIsACoup was not without merit: A regime change is essentially being imposed by neo-liberal forces.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:20 | 6306297 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Eirik, at what point would you be willing to say that the Greek banks had enough ELA? or... too much?

you seem to be someone with a big heart. bless you for that. but even the biggest heart still can't compute

ELA was capped just below 90 billion, remember? and the biggest problem and reason for ELA is still... Greeks taking their cash out of their banks, remember?

it would not be the first time that depositors in a bank run "force" a "regime change", would it? tell me, what trust ought the Greeks have towards their government, the very entity that closed their banks for them?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:43 | 6307296 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Let us face the truth:

  • Yanis Varoufakis has betrayed his country and its people. Nobody gives a shit what people of Greece want and has voted for.
  • Yanis Varoufakis lies to everybody. He was not honest with his people.  And now he is trying to shift the blame for his own actions to somebody else.
  • As for political far left, they, like Jewish Bolsheviks in Russia one 100 years ago were agents of the zionist banking mafia, always felt disgust for ordinary people. It is the political far left who always promoted international institutions and the New World Order. The political far left and neocons are a vanguard for the NWO and just doing their job.
  • As for DEMOCRACY and people of Greece, now they will face reality after being betrayed one more time. After all, all allowed political parties are just a smokescreen for the ruling oligarchy. Like Republicans and Democrats are in the USA.
Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:59 | 6307406 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Repost:

The Hellenic kingdom was ruled by the Glucksburg family from 1832 until 1973. Germany has always been the dueño of Greece 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kings_of_Greece

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:44 | 6307573 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

“There were people who were sympathetic at a personal level, behind closed doors, especially from the IMF.” He confirmed that he was referring to Christine Lagarde, the IMF director. “But then inside the Eurogroup [there were] a few kind words and that was it: back behind the parapet of the official version. … Very powerful figures look at you in the eye and say ‘You’re right in what you’re saying, but we’re going to crunch you anyway’.”

 

 

Played

Defeated, shown up, out-done or taken advantage of.

"You bought that Civic for $90 000?!?!? Man yo' got played hardcore."

-       The Urban Dictionary

 

Scape Goat noun: Any car exceeding the speed limit or driving recklessly, whose speed you match with your car while maintaining a reasonable distance behind them. The idea is that the Scape Goat will get caught in any speed trap up ahead, and you'll have time to react, slow down, and continue on your way. Doing this is called Scape Goating. "That guy's going pretty fast... I'm going to let him get a little further ahead of me, and then I'll speed up and use him as a Scape Goat." -       The Urban Dictionary

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:22 | 6307232 The Delicate Genius
The Delicate Genius's picture

spot on, Larssen.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 12:15 | 6306580 Luc X. Ifer
Luc X. Ifer's picture

Looks like nobody actually noticed this one.
Greece was in danger to go the Iran style CIA intervention to adjust their political & social path

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/04/pers-j04.html

And of course,the current government hanged for good. So between being hanged and leaving with a compensatory package this is what resulted :)

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:04 | 6306223 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

G, they don't report to anyone, do not publish minutes.

Is that okay with you?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:25 | 6306325 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

irrelevant argument. do they issue decrees? do they issue laws? do they issue policy?

in this context, the only thing that they can do is give the ECB political cover for more ELA, and for that they do have to make a public statement

this place is full of criticism versus the FED... rewritten for european stuff where it does not apply. particularly all things connected to the EU Council and it's subgroups, the one part of the EU that is the most arcane

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:23 | 6307233 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

A deal is a deal then. Just like here in the ussa.

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 17:02 | 6312553 Fod
Fod's picture

They DO issue policy. The threat to expel Greece from the Eurozone because of its fiscal policy means that the rest of the Eurogroup can gang up on one member and force it to change its policies, even though there is no real fiscal union.

So now, the Greek government tries to pass "the agreement" through parliament and vote to pass the last of Greece's sovereignity to the EU. This is indirect issuance of laws in a member state.

The deal to give out Greece's infrastructure to a company in order to pay short-term debt means that the EU is forcing Greece to lose it's sovereignity to what is really private capital and dissolve. If this goes on, during this century Greece will disappear as a country.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:16 | 6306250 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

The Eurogroup is the new Central Committee of the European unique Party. The EU is the new USSR, which will crash and burn for the same reason as the old one: it doesn't make economic sense. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose... In the old days, there was nothing more repugnant than the little apparatchiks (small party bureaucrats) who were doing their damn best to justify and "explain" every decision at the top, no matter how idiotic. You, Ghordius, sound like one of them...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:34 | 6306351 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

lol, I can even imagine you to believe that stuff

but you are right in one thing only: in certain ways, the Soviet System was, at least on paper, a confederative system. you do know what "a Soviet" is, do you? a council

and that's the funny part: you need a council for a confederation worth it's name. it does not have to be called like that, but the mechanics are the same

meanwhile, we have over a hundred political parties in europe, in case you open your eyes, and the eurogroup is being criticised here for the opposite of the soviet union's policies

and further, remember that every and each minister in the EuroGroup is sent there and responds to it's master, his elected national parliament

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 12:09 | 6306535 DeProgrammed
DeProgrammed's picture

"remember that every and each minister in the EuroGroup is sent there and responds to it's master, his elected national parliament"

 

And this for me is where every argument falls apart, when we bring in the magikal Yeti/Unicorn of politics, the mythical "elected" official(s)/parliament/PM/President.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 13:00 | 6306846 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

No, he has a valid point.  The ministers are elected to represent the people.

The ECB is selected to rule them all.  They always leave that part out.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:58 | 6307397 Faustus
Faustus's picture

Ghordius, could you please take the care to distinguish the shorthand "it's" (it is) from the possessive pronoun "its"? You don't write "hi's name" when you actually mean "his name", do you?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 21:00 | 6308756 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

... meanwhile, we have over a hundred political parties in europe, in case you open your eyes, and the eurogroup is being criticised here for the opposite of the soviet union's policies

Typical bullshit from your typical euro party activist. The fact is, you have over a hundred political parties in Europe, and one person (Schlaube) making all the life & death decisions, exactly like Stalin. QED !

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:49 | 6307343 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

Varoufakis, I missed you at last week-ends negotiation tables- with all these pencil pushers.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 17:01 | 6307971 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

I think Tsipras was threatened.  By the idiot thuggie herself Victoria Nuland.  

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:23 | 6306010 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

nailed it AJB...the faschists who want the infrastructure business and ports.

I'll share the crap I lie in bed and dream about...

...Greece take the new truck load of cash, and working with the Greek Hyper Secret Service is able to syphon off a few billion in some very clandestine way (working with the Russians) to buy gold.

...next, publically initiate some alternative currency option.  Doesn't matter what it is, but it needs to be something widely accepted, even if minimally used.

...the trojan horse, after Greece has liquidated themselves so the banks can keep paying themselves with freshly minted debt journal entries...Greece (in 2018) decides to nationalize all infrastructure previously (in 2015) liquidated.

...at the same time they announce the reintroduction of a gold back drachma with a coin of Alexander the Great, or Ceasar, or Russell Crowe

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:01 | 6306210 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

I'm pretty sure the point of a new currency would be to devalue it against the Euro.  A gold-backed drachma would appreciate against the Euro, which is the opposite of what the Greeks want, both in order to pay off their sovereign debt more easily and to make their market more competitive against the rest of the EU.

To get to a gold-backed currency in a world of fiat currency, you have to start out with little or no sovereign debt and a labor/export market that doesn't fear a rising exchange rate vs. the rest of the world.   There aren't many (any?) countries in such a position, and Greece does not seem to be one of them.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:06 | 6306236 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

"devaluing" is relative.  You could easily say, we will exchange 20,000 Drachma for a single ounce of Caesar Gold.  boom..deval accomplished....and, I'm also assumped the soon to be 400 Billion Euro debt gets flushed...the entire lot of it.  All local personal (e.g. mortgages) greek debt gets renegotiated to Greek banks in Drachma.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:41 | 6307509 Faustus
Faustus's picture

That could work in principle but I suspect the Greek would prefer to get back to their old system that worked for decades prior to introducing the Euro. The Greek citizens avoided paying taxes whenever possible. In turn, the Greek state printed Drachmas as needed to balance the budget. Of course, this acting entailed a trotting inflation. On balance, this amounted to levy an indirect tax on all periodic salaries without the need of a sophisticated internal revenue office. Clearly, the Greek prefer to avoid taxes while having a stable currency. But that doesn't work out, you cannot eat the cake and have it too.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 13:02 | 6306860 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

First they should invite all the Euro heads of state, representatives, bankers, plutos, and their pets to a massive celebration of the new deal.

Then they should kill them all.  Publicly. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:53 | 6305824 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Wherethefuckis has been "RUN" out so he can be the fake voice of conscience.

This so he can be the next PRIME minister, in a few months, when shit is starting to hit the fan there for real.

Wherethefuckis belongs to Gehorg Sorrows....check it....this man is no straight shooter.

PRIME minister in waiting....mark my words...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 12:15 | 6306578 DeProgrammed
DeProgrammed's picture

I guess it depends on what you take "at face value" that determines your reality viewpoint. If one is to take the article at face value, YV is an unlikely PM candidate. If you apply the "truth is stranger than fiction" modifier, and think this is kabuki and a farse, it becomes quite plausible. Choose which rabbit hole to enter?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:43 | 6307309 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

Civil war???  I hope the Greeks remember who the real enemies are.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:59 | 6306199 Anarchy 99
Anarchy 99's picture

...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:08 | 6305916 20834A
20834A's picture

They fought a financial war. They lost. These are the terms of surrender, and they're harsh. Germany should be grateful, and remember, that we were never as harsh to them.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 13:04 | 6306870 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Between the Americans and the Soviets about 4.5 million Germans were murdered/starved/worked to death...  after the war was over.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:37 | 6307279 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Progress!

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:25 | 6307513 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

And the new Germans are so brain washed and controlled they say nothing.  In fact the German people denegrate the bravest of their troops who fought with valor during that war.  Ever hear of a call for crimes committed by the Soviets?  How about war crime trials for the death camps run by the US after the war?

Can a German even question the storyline taught by Germany's masters?  Such as the cause of the war, the holohoax etc.?

No and they do not want to. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:43 | 6306109 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

The WSJ and NYT are always quoting ordinary greeks lamenting their "Humanitarian Crisis" as they sit sipping ouzo and cappuccinos at sidewalk cafes...

These lazy bitches wouldn't know a hardship if it came up and bit them in the ass.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:05 | 6306225 Perimetr
Perimetr's picture

 “So at that point I said ‘Well perhaps we should simply not hold elections anymore for indebted countries’, and there was no answer. 

 

Actually, ELECTIONS ARE IMPORTANT because

 

ELECTIONS MAINTAIN THE ILLUSION OF CHOICE AND DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATION

 

otherwise, they have no value

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 12:18 | 6306603 DeProgrammed
DeProgrammed's picture

"ELECTIONS MAINTAIN THE ILLUSION OF CHOICE AND DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATION"

 

I'd like to see a ZH poll on who agrees with this, would be interesting to have a visual of the percentages.  You can count me firmly in the agree camp.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:38 | 6307283 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG !!!!

Merkel and company and the E.U. DO NOT HAVE ABSOLUTE CONTROL !!!

IT'S THE BANKERS !!!  

Greece did NOT make a deal with the the E.U. all those years ago and for every year thereafter.  THEY MADE A DEAL WITH THE BANKS !!! 

COUNTRIES CANNOT ISSUE DEBT.  ONLY THE BANKS CAN.

As long as these clueless politicians and the sheeple they supposedly represent get this through their thick skulls, nothing will be done about it.

But, it's too late anyway.  The belief that infinite growth can only come from debt issuance will not die until the world nearly dies from the destruction and repudiation of all the QUADRILLIONS of debt that has been issued and made into derivatives.


Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:48 | 6307340 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

The Dawn of the Fourth Reich has appeared in Europe.  And it came from the BANKS !!

The Iron Curtain of Crony Capitalist Fascism has now dropped from Europe to America.  Soon in Asia as TPP is enacted next year.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:48 | 6307338 timeless21
timeless21's picture

Moar sheep, please

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:33 | 6305719 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

I hope Varoufakis has a secure location for his family.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:37 | 6305742 Closet Boy
Closet Boy's picture

Perhaps, they can take refuge in D.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:50 | 6305803 Bobbo
Bobbo's picture

The Germans will take him from his home in the middle of the night.  Black shirts with lightning bolt insignia.  They will hang his dead body upside down at the Parthenon.  Mourners will be taken away on "special trains."

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:33 | 6305720 john_connor
john_connor's picture

To Greek Parliamment: Reject this "deal" you cowards!

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:51 | 6305815 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

Varoufakis has preserved his credibility for when a million Greeks take to the street and try to "occupy" the government!  Tsipis is done.  "Greece will struggle to regain its sovereignty"?  Yeah. Right.  That's the long-term truth - but the Greek people are ready for a fight NOW!

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:03 | 6305879 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Pretty much the stupid phrase of the day - "managing the collapse". They can't manage their own finances for a week straight and they are thinking about managing a collapse? What a fucking joke. Do they realize how stupid they truly seem to be?

The other side of that is just preparing and letting it happen. How much worse off are the Greeks going to be if they take that one, final step into an exit? My guess is not too much.

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:34 | 6307271 Shitters_Full
Shitters_Full's picture

In this clip Merkel is the prisoner, Schauble is the barrister and "pigs" is "PIIGS"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-DXFkrPHpY

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 18:15 | 6308230 Bag Of Meat
Bag Of Meat's picture

Here in Greeece reporters say that until 4:00 in the morning CET yesterday, no deal was apparent. Then Jack Lew made a call to Tsipras, and he threatened him with non-disclosed leverage, but the greek side confirms the threat wasn't of economic or political nature... Then at 6:00 CET, Tsipras caveats and we have a deal. 

WAIT DO YOU MEAN THEY ACTUALLY TOPPLED AN ELECTED FOREIGN PRIME MINISTER? Who would believe that..

The paper pushing must go on at all costs.. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:37 | 6305745 ANestIOS
ANestIOS's picture

Varoufakis' new main role as agitator 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:57 | 6305845 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1

"In Varoufakis’s account, the Troika never genuinely negotiated during his five months as finance minister"

because strutting in like a diva and make a huge mess of negotiations the way Varoufakis did is what anybody would call... negotiating?

spare me this idiot's words. he behaved as Greece would have all the time of the world... just to find out that it did not

he filled the air with his "Game Theory" academic views... and failed miserably in his job as finance minister, particularly in making sure that Greece would have the reserves to negotiate longer, if necessary

but no, he quitted before anybody would note what a damn empty suit he is, probably all bamboozeled by his leather jacket and his motor bike

what a waste, professor ex-finmin Mr. Varoufakis. do your duty and at least go to the votes in Parliament, you agitator, pseudonegotiatior moron

your job was to make sure the Greek finances would allow a longer negotiation, if a longer negotiation was what you steered at. too logic for you, eh?

the sickest thing about it is that he will continue to be seen as the only one that had a clue, when facts have proven him wrong all the way, from alpha to omega and back

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:00 | 6305860 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

We do not always see eye to eye, Ghordo, but you have nailed the tail to the donkey's ass on this one. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:06 | 6305900 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit, there is no shortage of "empty suits".  More of them should quit or be removed.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:11 | 6305938 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

Agreed. There is no shortage of empty suits. However, we now have one less. If only for the moment. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:03 | 6305881 NoBillsOfCredit
NoBillsOfCredit's picture

B.S.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:04 | 6305884 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Blah blah blah, then cut the Greeks loose already motherfucker!!! Please, no one in this "negotciation" has any credibility!!!!!

If Varoufakis's only goal was to buy some time, he did, until he couldn't, not being able to do his job any longer, he left!

From where I sit, he is not the only empty suit in all this you stupid dishonest fuck.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:18 | 6305984 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

" then cut the Greeks loose already... "

is it so damn difficult to comprehend? it's all frigging open doors, despite all the bullshit that is being written today. but nobody to be pushed out, whatever Schäuble might wish, or call for

no, Varoufakis' only goal was more glory and fame to Varoufakis. and he succeeded in this task. as the article itself tells, he was studying the situation for four and a half years

but it looks more and more that he was the main reason why Tsipras was convinced that a "political solution" was possible. Alexis Tsipras must have thought that academic prowess as economist means the guy can add, but lo and behold, he was not even interested in numbers or doing his job of collecting taxes

do you really want to meet me toe to toe, Laws? just explain your "stupid dishonest fuck". I don't care neither for the stupid nor for the fuck, but the "dishonest" ought to be clearly solvable even in this virtual form. go on, explain to me where this "dishonest" applies, put in the links. I am posting my opinion since four years, here, only 33 weeks less then you. you must have something, don't you?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:58 | 6306190 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Again, be honest then.  Our opinions are irrelevant.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:09 | 6306247 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

so what? where was I dishonest? as you wrote, opinions don't count, so it must be some facts you think that I misrepresented. cough up links or excuse yourself

and no, it's nothing I did not myself. do you want links where I excused myself for misunderstandings? those who talk about credibility... ought to care for their own credibility

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:19 | 6307496 ebear
ebear's picture

"Our opinions are irrelevant."

Forceful opinions even more so, especially when accompanied by ad hominem attack.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:19 | 6307497 ebear
ebear's picture

"Our opinions are irrelevant."

Forceful opinions even more so, especially when accompanied by ad hominem attack.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 12:09 | 6306527 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

Greece ended up accepting a FAR WORSE deal than anyone thought imaginable... and you seem to be saying that this is YV fault?  Or are you saying that YV's participation is/was inconsequential, thus his rockstar simply status reflects his own vanity?

All that YV is saying here (and I believe him) is that the Troika never intended to negotiate, period... that all of this theater was merely to address the political framing of Greece's indefinite servitude, which includes a firesale of Greek public assets that will be divided among private banking interests. Such political framing of the "deal" (and not it's economic viability) is clearly the prize that the Troika covets, for any political 'success' that might have been claimed by syriza/tspiras here would guarantee and unravelling of existing deals (ireland) and embolden the remaining PIGS as their turn on the 'wheel of crisis & serfdom' approaches (inevitably).

But I believe the Greeks are a different (stronger) breed than the other PIIGS.  The deal that has been seemingly agreed-to today will not hold because the Greek people will not stand for it...

By refusing to dictate haircuts for the banks & bondholders (who DESERVE haircuts - for in an outright default they would get NOTHING), the Troika has all-but-guaranteed civil unrest (in Greece and elsewhere) as the very 'political' process that they've chosen to follow in managing their own member states has laid bare the hypocritical, anti-democratic, banker-owned structure of the EU itself. Now that the real EU king has been seen to have no clothes, the fate of the EU itself is a foregone conclusion...

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:13 | 6307471 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Bingo. I see good ole Ghordo doesn't answer this post.

It's because he can't.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 12:14 | 6306571 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

>>>>Alexis Tsipras must have thought that academic prowess as economist means the guy can add, but lo and behold, he was not even interested in numbers or doing his job of collecting taxes

I call bullshit on your statement. Varoufakis can calculate things quite well. He said from the very beginning that the level of debt in unplayable. That which cannot be repaid will not.
While I disagree with the Greek position of not reforming government and their tax structure, the fact is that Greece cannot repay it debts and they were incurred by previous governments. Cannot fault this one for the mess.
In the end this is turning out to be an operation to strip mine Greece of its public assets.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:38 | 6305746 Brazen Heist
Brazen Heist's picture

Beware of Germans bearing power.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:48 | 6305791 CPL
CPL's picture

Better to go with the flow of something that was created from the last 'stewarts' of the banking industry that helped make all of this possible with the terrible inherited social conditions, the huge piles of debt and the world mostly in ruins from the greedy malinvestment of a single tribe seeking to dominate all others. 

I'm going long oven companies, unmarked black vans and sack cloth hoods going forward the next 100 years.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:56 | 6305838 Brazen Heist
Brazen Heist's picture

Go long on bullshit....always goes up with time, never a disappointing trade!

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:20 | 6305988 CPL
CPL's picture

Very true. 

But for short term quick investment, depending on supply availability; stylish tattoos, lamp shades and soap factories.  Considering the tribe has a blood moon prediction thing out there forthe 28th of Sept that pronounces their total and complete destruction.  Might as well go whole hog since they wished for it.  Well, one of their rabbi's did, unfortunately he wasn't picky on which ones.  For fairness on the request, since they were dumb enough to predict it publically and promote it without any definition to whom in the tribe is getting 'destroyed' might as well oblige them all.

Afterall it's no one's business in the universe to fix stupid, and a prediction that dumb deserves an action since no one is doing anything else anyways.  

Everyone's horribly unemployed and broke, so it'll be fun and break up the monotony.  Give the kids something to do.  We'll bring back the old tradition of a wild 'pig' and 'rat' hunt.  Seemed to help let people blow off steam a long time ago and I'm sure the Islamic folks in Europe would have fun joining in the old time fun riding around cloaked on horse back with torches and scythes.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:35 | 6306055 pods
pods's picture

Their (banker's) debt is everywhere, destroying everything like a plague.  Whole nations are being run over by this.

Yet, not 1 in 10 see what is actually going on.  

Give anyone the power to conjure money and lend it out and you will get this.

Every single time.

pods

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:06 | 6305906 All is chosen
All is chosen's picture

& overrated cars with daft part prices

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:38 | 6305748 r101958
r101958's picture

....and, of course, the 'markets' are back over or near their 18k, 2.1k and 5k drop dead line in the sand.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:40 | 6305754 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Months ago, I wrote "The rest of Southern Europe is scribbling notes furiously, watching the situation unfold in Greece."

So, here's what they wrote in their notbooks:  "When the debt becomes unsustainable and it is our turn to face the music, our exit must be swift and silent, preferrably over a weekend.  Escape with the assets in tact and rebuild from there.  Side note: no referrendums.  Ever."

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:53 | 6306170 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

No one in elected office is that brave, lest they end up very, very dead.

The remaining PIGS were the biggest attackers of Greece in order to score mercy points when their turn arrives, as they learned that not only will there be no negotiations, but the longer they hold out hope, the greater they will be crushed by the banks.

In other words, they will have no choice to but sell out "their people" to Schauble & Company just like Tsipras did.

The only question ever offered is a simple one, "Your money, or your life?"

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 22:15 | 6309044 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Where Yanis failed is he didn't really have the support of his PM and cabinet.  If he did, then they would have prepared for drachma printing, nationalizing the banks, etc... a smooth transition.

Without their full support all he had was his game theory.  Well, theory is no good unless you really have something to fall back on with teeth.

The other side did their advanced prep work.  They printed up euros and bought their bank's bad debt.  So there was no reason for them to compromise.  Hence, the just said "fuck you, pay me" like the good little gangsters they are.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:40 | 6305760 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

I like this guy, his is intelligent, has integrity, guts and is honest in my opinion, all qualities politicians and governments in general abhor.

Tells you something about governance, doesn't it?

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:49 | 6305794 ramgold2206
ramgold2206's picture

agree 100% -i'd imagine thats why he was ousted... funny how "accidents" seem to happen to such individuals

 

www.teamramgold.com

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:06 | 6305908 GoldIsMoney
GoldIsMoney's picture

He is a defrauder. He does not want to pay the debts his collegues have accumulated. So tell is as you like, but just blaiming the creditor to wish to get one's money back is poor - really poor.

 

Hell I can not understand that nobody really knwos the laws about debts of other countries. Why are you unable to get that right?

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-the-functio...

 

Well if you can't read that, you still can not blames others which can read taht.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:09 | 6306242 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

... "just blaiming the creditor to wish to get one's money back is poor - really poor."

 

So according to you, GoldIsMoney, the banksters were loaning Gold to Greece and now want it back, or if not Gold, something else that is TANGIBLE.

 

Or were the banksters in fact lending electronic digits (thin air) created, created out of...   wait for it...

 

THIN AIR, and want something tangible in exchange for all the nothingness they so graciously provided?

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:24 | 6306318 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Not only that, the contract to get Greece in to the EU was conceived in Fraud. As was Italy. We know this. Probably many others too, this is not hard.

This contract that binds these people is not the will of the people and it is fraud. That contract cannot bind the people. The actions of these so called leaders is conceived in fraud, they cannot bind the people. 

WALK THE FUCK AWAY, THE PRISON IS YOUR FUCKING MIND ASS HOLES.

The EU is a mind fuck. As is the US, I know. But this is so tragic and easy to see and explain.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:38 | 6306374 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

and what about NATO, MsCreant? though France left NATO for quite a long time. just saying

you are showing a door and asking yourself why Greece does not want to exit it. well, it's not that they can't imagine themselves out of it

and no, whatever comparison you draw with the US... sorry, most of it is simply US domestic propaganda

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:43 | 6305767 eishund
eishund's picture

Should have just given the banksters your Finger and gone full barter. Now you get to prostitute your nice ass. Happy now?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:44 | 6305776 whateverittakes
whateverittakes's picture

Greece does not belong in that club. They are not equal partners and they do not bring anything to the table other than a source of cheap labor and there is plenty of that around the globe. Greece reminds me of a demanding collective group of affirmative action recepients.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:25 | 6306026 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Well...that crowd has certainly taken over the US.

With that in mind your point is...???

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:32 | 6306343 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Greece does not belong in that club. Nor France. Nor the other PIIGS. They can't afford membership. They never could, most of their books were cooked by Goldman to meet a static, letter of the law, moment to get them in. 

Does France remind you of a demanding collective group of affirmative action recipients?

Does Italy remind you of a demanding collective group of affirmative action recipients?

Does Spain remind you of a demanding collective group of affirmative action recipients?

Does Portugal remind you of a demanding collective group of affirmative action recipients?

At least be consistent with your opinion, please.

Let them all go.

Pretty easy, yes?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:45 | 6305780 whatthecurtains
whatthecurtains's picture

Jesus...   fucking Greece hides debt from EU "partners".  Govt is rife with tax evasion and clientelism and all you can do is cry that German is above the law.    

If I were a German I would serious be thinking about my own exit from this economic shithole and go back to the DM.    Let the Greeks and the other Eurocrats wallow in their socialist malaise.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:55 | 6305834 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Germany going back to the DM is exactly what the rest of Europe needs.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:56 | 6306180 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Which is why it will never, EVAR happen.

Prisons don't get built in order to remain empty.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:58 | 6305852 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You would fucking think so, odd then isn't it that the Germans insist on keeping Greece in the E.Z.?

Cut the fuckers loose already!

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:11 | 6305942 whatthecurtains
whatthecurtains's picture

The Germans insisted?   I think the German deal was harsh so the Greeks would get out.     But let's face facts no matter what is written on paper the Greeks aren't gouing to do it anyways. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:34 | 6307562 ebear
ebear's picture

As if Germans make their own decisions independent of Washington.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:13 | 6305957 sschu
sschu's picture

The Germans like the Euro, check out their balance of trade numbers.  They see Greece as expendable, but they have no intention of letting the rest go.  I think Yanis comment is correct, Schable (sp) wants to make an example of Greece to the rest of Europe so they get their deficits in order.

sschu

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:45 | 6305781 ramgold2206
ramgold2206's picture

the EU, the euro, the institutions etc etc..., its all about control and only about control... but we know that already... yet we are trapped in a system with no escape... red pill or blue pill.. makes no fuckin difference ...

 

www.teamramgold.com  

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:46 | 6305785 Reaper
Reaper's picture

He's full of sound and fury and doing nothing. Repudiate the debt; let the debt holders get relief from their derivatives and Credit Default Swaps. Merkel isn't serving the German people; she's bailing the banks. Yanis is a hollow token.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:53 | 6305823 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

Alot of love in the room for a guy that did jack shit. 

It would be like me saying I wanted to fight Mike Tyson in his prime. I trained hard but in the end decided that I did not want to get the shit kicked out of me. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:54 | 6305830 Kina
Kina's picture

what a fucking stupid comment, another person who didn't bother to read the article.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:04 | 6305888 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Kina, above you is a point well made.

All huff and puff, no go. None, he was FM for months, if he had balls, he would have done something.

Everyone is spell-bound by some media-friendly/constructed puppet mouthpiece....

It's all words....and fancy motorcycles...media-circus...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:05 | 6305894 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

I read the fucking article, dipshit. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:46 | 6305786 Bobbo
Bobbo's picture

What's next for Greeks?

Free train rides.  Gas Chambers.  ....

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 23:10 | 6309272 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Elimination of the middle class after a heist of their respective nations' is obvious and no secret.  What will they do with us?  Pushing us into suicide is more probably their goal.  What other course is there?  No politician is willing to die for freedom and these people have snipers on every building and in every closet...have collected the necessary data to determine who supports the overthrowing of democratic nations and installation of totaliltarian government. 

For those of us who pay taxes, the salt is the wound is knowing we are paying to put into place our end game.  Painfully obvious to me that there is no future for anyone who is not in The Club.  If this were a just world, JH would be our idea, not theirs.  But the circus is still in town.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:48 | 6305793 fromthinair
fromthinair's picture

From that interview Mr Tsipras and Ms Merkel looks clean. 

zh, now that you have turned into a new organization and your resoursefulness seem to be your only skill, here are your marching orders.

 

So, looks like Schauble is not getting his marching orders from the Chancellor. Who is he getting it from?

 

http://just-a-thought-from-thinair.blogspot.com/

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:50 | 6305805 g3h
g3h's picture

Let's be honest here. Neither the greeks nor the Germans are innocent.

Usually I don't say this.  But this is total corruption.

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:37 | 6306368 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Make this comment refer to our global community, and you will be on point. 

This is a case study of what is happening here too. Does Obama seem constrained by "the law?" Was Bush? Is Wall Street?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:57 | 6305807 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Based on the price action in the eur/usd traders look disapponted that Greece capitulated. It looks like they were planning on the ECB to come in and buy up European bonds as yields rose, and also saw Greece leaving as a net positive.

 Now Draghi is faced with lower yields and supply shortages of sovereign debt to buy, so bond traders are lightening their European debt exposure.(selling euros)

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:52 | 6305821 Kina
Kina's picture

I think the the first two comments here never even read this article so ignorant their comments. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:54 | 6305827 KCMLO
KCMLO's picture

When's the next election?  Varoufakis is already the frontrunner and he's not even announced yet.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:55 | 6305836 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

A country spending itself into oblivion and living off the fruitful efforts of other countries, and whining and demoniizing those that pay those welfare payments is completely within the law. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 23:06 | 6309252 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Oh please....all countries are in the same boat.  Predatory lending practices have bankrupted all nations and the reason is obvious.  RTFP

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:57 | 6305843 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Greek protester should not seek out the government building or the EU consulate but the German embassy.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:02 | 6305873 GoldIsMoney
GoldIsMoney's picture

Are you nuts? They should hang all the greek politicians that would be mercy...

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:58 | 6305851 Kina
Kina's picture

Who would want to be leader of Greece now?

The only reason Varoufakis would want the job is if he intended to reverse everything.

Else it would be a dangerous job, with Greece descending into deeper and deeper civil chaos with high youth unemployment, crashing GDP, and more debt payments to come.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:59 | 6305853 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Merkel is America's bitch due to infinite NSA spying since at least 2002.

So it is not Germany that is running this Greek debacle but the vampire squid from the land of the free.

Always give credit where credit is due.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:02 | 6305871 BoPeople
BoPeople's picture

And America is whose bitch? Based on what can be observed in viewing the actions of US congress critters, they are afraid of something or someone ... very afraid.

My guess is that Tsipras got a taste of that fear.

The world is not as it seems.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:17 | 6306270 thestarl
thestarl's picture

Yeah your right there see the the look of the man when Farage was addressing him in the Euro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94UcyJnRcGU

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 22:26 | 6309090 mkkby
mkkby's picture

What a fuckin stupid comment.  Did leaders of iceland get whacked, or was the country invaded by foreign armies?  No.  Nothing happed.  They defauled on the their debt, gave the bankers a middle finger -- and NOTHING HAPPENED.

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:58 | 6305855 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Yes you were set up. You idiot. You had a chance to go on offense , which is the best defense, yet you trusted your adversaries. Fools.
Interesting that Spain Italy and Ireland were against them , as they don't want to answer to their people. I didn't see that one. I guess I would make an awful politician.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:05 | 6305897 Kina
Kina's picture

Well thats exactly what he wanted to do, but he was voted down on this.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:59 | 6305857 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

This is where the issue truly begins.  It is time for bloodshed in Greece as the stooge government ignores the voters and surrenders to Germany for money.  This is not the end.  This is where it really starts.  The cake eating comment moment.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:03 | 6305875 semperfi
semperfi's picture

exactly - this whole global shitshow ends in war, first civil, and then between countries

same as it ever was

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 09:59 | 6305858 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

 Merkel and Schäuble’s control over the Eurogroup is absolute, and that the group itself is beyond the law.

 

Then tell them fuck you and go with Russia.  This is how sassies act!  

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:01 | 6305866 GoldIsMoney
GoldIsMoney's picture

Beyond the law was the first bail-out for any country. And beyond the law was surely the bail  -out of greece and hell it was way beyond the law to allow Greece into the EU. Gosh this Varoufakis sucks really.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:01 | 6305868 PrayingMantis
PrayingMantis's picture

 

 

... the greek tragedy presented by three greek pensioners ...

 

... three greek pensioners on a park bench by the parthenon talked about morning bodily functions.  70 year old said, "I got this problem. I wake up each morning at 7; takes me 20 minutes to pee."  80 year old replied, "Think that’s a problem? Mine’s worse. I get up at 8, sit there, grunt, groan for half hour until poo comes out."  The third was quiet.  Trying to lose a frown, 70 asked, “What about you?”  90 year old dropped a sigh and said, "At  7, I pee like a horse; at 8, I crap like a cow."  80 scowled, then asked, “So? What's the problem?"
"I don't wake up until nine!"

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:03 | 6305870 Kina
Kina's picture

Seems like some German got his knickers in a knot over Varoufakis revealing just how the Troika was operating. The true moron would most certainly be the German Finance Minister whose intention it was, having sucked Greece into the Euro, to then execute it.

Probalby the only Finance Minister acting as a real finance minister, the other side of the coin only interested in implementing Germany's destructive will.

 

The only thing Germany neglected with Greece was the train journey precursor.


Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:04 | 6305887 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Sold out by the bankster associates.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:06 | 6305899 anachronism
anachronism's picture

Where are the Spartans? the Athenians? the Thebians?

Are Schaueble and merkel more powerful than Xerxes or Darius?

Rather than being like Leonidas or Pericles, Varufakis and Tsipras are like the orators who surrendered Greece to the Macedonians.

The Greeks have become a German colony.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:11 | 6305923 Kina
Kina's picture

..

He said he spent the past month warning the Greek cabinet that the ECB would close Greece’s banks to force a deal. When they did, he was prepared to do three things: issue euro-denominated IOUs; apply a “haircut” to the bonds Greek issued to the ECB in 2012, reducing Greece’s debt; and seize control of the Bank of Greece from the ECB.

None of the moves would constitute a Grexit but they would have threatened it. Varoufakis was confident that Greece could not be expelled by the Eurogroup; there is no legal provision for such a move. But only by making Grexit possible could Greece win a better deal. And Varoufakis thought the referendum offered Syriza the mandate they needed to strike with such bold moves – or at least to announce them.

He hinted at this plan on the eve of the referendum, and reports later suggested this was what cost him his job. He offered a clearer explanation.

As the crowds were celebrating on Sunday night in Syntagma Square, Syriza’s six-strong inner cabinet held a critical vote. By four votes to two, Varoufakis failed to win support for his plan, and couldn’t convince Tsipras. He had wanted to enact his “triptych” of measures earlier in the week, when the ECB first forced Greek banks to shut. Sunday night was his final attempt. When he lost his departure was inevitable.

 

Thats what he wanted to do, but the cowards there voted him down.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:09 | 6305927 large_wooden_badger
large_wooden_badger's picture

Xerxes would be so jealous of these Germans coming for earth and water

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:10 | 6305935 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

The weird reality of the situation: Merkel and Schauble were the only people who gave the Greeks the great opportunity to exit the euro. In fact, short of saying, "fuck off out of the euro", they could not have been clearer the last few days. The fact that Tsipras et al decided to take the shitty deal back to Athens says more about them than Merkel or Schauble.

There is no other option for the greeks than Grexit. It's either permanent debt slavery and asset stripping of their nation or the short term agony for independence and freedom for future generations.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:25 | 6306023 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

agree on your first sentence, disagree on the second

devaluation of your own currency is a temporary measure only, otherwise it would be the Grand Policy itself. check on monetary history and find me any example where devaluation did more then steal from Peter to give to Paul and solve anything. Dr. Krugman is a bit like medics who say: take two aspirins and call me tomorrow

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:42 | 6306387 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

I'm not sure where we disagree mate. I was referring to the Greeks going back to the drachma which will be followed by the usual (short-term) high cost of borrowing, devaluation, and social chaos as people adjust. So of course it is all temporary.

As for the major fiat currencies currently busy devaluing themselves in the race to the bottom - this could very well turn out to be a permanent broken state.  As we saw with the Swiss who lifted the peg with the euro, at some point the saner countries will simply say that's enough insanity and stop buying other people's worthless fiat to balance the exchange rates to keep their exports competitive. IE it is only temporary until it snaps and only those who can back their currencies with assets (Like gold) or great trade balance or great cash flow will be able to avoid runaway inflation. Money, remember has two functions: Store of value and utility. Without the former, the latter is meaningless.

Right now, I reckon simple arithmetic has been usurped by propaganda and bullshit. It amazes me daily that we can carry on like this without reality rearing its head to tell us the good news about untenable debts, systemic frauds and astronomical sums in derivatives that are teetering on the edge of revealing what utter criminal fools run the world.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 11:59 | 6306478 libertysghost
libertysghost's picture

Going back to the Drachma isn't really "devaluing your currency" in this situation.  Krugman, at best, is having a schizophrenic moment not being able to comprehend how his wet dream (nightmare in reality) of more and more centralized planned economies can possibly be playing out this way ( see here: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/killing-the-european-project...) when it should be fairies and unicorns pooping gold and lollipops of course.  He's a Europhile wannabe and always has been...the has been.  This is tearing him up...and I think it is you a bit too Ghordius.  You seem a bit shaken today...full of piss and venom and lashing out as your self-loathing manifests and takes control after these recent events.  

"But more and more elitist consolidation is always the answer...for the good of the people...against the elites"...that is too often your undelying theme in many more words of course and hidden behind soft psuedopopulism.  

But this Euro plan was always a project by the central bankers to be projected by the fouth reich.  It's shoddy make up was the best they could design because the outcome they wanted required it.  These aren't unforseen negative externalities...these are the only types of outcomes possible in a system designed to have all the power and wealth of every nation and individual under those flags transferred to the corrupt politicians and criminal bankers that want all of Europe (and eventually the world) their slaves.  How you can keep making excuses for them is beyond me.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 13:07 | 6306892 rex-lacrymarum
rex-lacrymarum's picture

All supporters of devaluation are basically economically ignorant. There is no more polite way of saying it. 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:15 | 6305951 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

 Yanis Varoufakis is an academic -  sort of a Larry Summers with a bigger ego - if that is even possible.

 

If you borrow money from a loan shark and can't pay it back you have lost the right to be surprised when your kneecap gets busted.

 

OH MY!  Thats not fair -

 

I have explained why we can not possibly pay you back - I have explained our debt to GDP ratios - I have valid economic analysis that proves my position!  I taught a class in economics - I know what I am talking about! - just gets your other kneecap busted.

 

Does a loan shark want to discuss economics when you payment is past due?

Does a loan shark give a fuck what you must do to pay back his loan?

Does a loan shark care if your kids go hungry as long as he gets his money?

Is a loan shark willing to threaten to (or actually) kill your wife if it helps him get his money?

 

News flash - everyone that loans you money is a loan shark - plan accordingly when you borrow money.

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:22 | 6306005 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

And the great irony....

 

...The loan shark hasn't even loaned you any money.  He's more broke than you.

It is just an accounting entry in his books that your creditors will accept.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:53 | 6306155 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

Really? You still don't get it?

If what you say is true or not - it doesn't matter -

 

Maybe if I put it this way -

 

If you make a deal with the devil you can't complain when you end up in hell.

 

 

 

 

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 14:21 | 6307221 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

You don't make a point just by putting white space after your shout.

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:53 | 6307670 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

Why do you think I was shouting?

 

I am not sure why I sometimes get extra white space after I post - could be because I edit some stuff out of a post that is too long.

Does it bother you?

 

 

 

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:56 | 6307678 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

It did it again!

 

Why?

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 16:16 | 6307799 WarPony
WarPony's picture

But V could dance with his pretty charts, his lofty socialistic "principles" and his "sound" economic blatherings - AFTER the money was spent.  Oh yeah, that's what every bookie wants to hear - EXCUSES.  Someone needed their little punk self spanked.

 

Tue, 07/14/2015 - 09:24 | 6310431 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

gcjohns1971

"It is just an accounting entry in his books that your creditors will accept."

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creditor

 

: a person, bank, or company that lends money to someone

: one to whom a debt is owed; especially: a person to whom money or goods are due

 

You use "creditor" in your post - which implies a debtor -

 

So you do recognize a debt was created - right?

 

Why get all sweaty about how the money was created?

 

It was created and lent/borrowed and spent - now some want to complain when it is time to pay it back. 

 

My point is simple - if you don't want to pay back loans (from money created in any way) then don't borrow.

 

BTW - I didn't down arrow you - because your point is correct - but what does that have to do with anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 10:12 | 6305955 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Weakness begets more weakness. Greeks are pussies

Mon, 07/13/2015 - 15:20 | 6307501 pot_and_kettle
pot_and_kettle's picture

Greek *politicians* ( the vast majority ) are pussies.

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