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Tsipras Stunner: Creditors Said "There Is No Point In Holding Elections" In Bailed Out Countries
While Germany's finmin Schauble is about to burst at few capillaries after reading the latest provocation from Tsipras in which he said, according to Reuters, that:
- GREEK PM TSIPRAS SAYS I SIGNED I DEAL I DO NOT BELIEVE IN BUT I'M WILLING TO IMPLEMENT AND WILL ASSUME RESPONSIBILITIES
It should be the Greek people that are reeling by another, even greater stunner, just spoken by the Greek PM during his TV interview: an admission from the chosen Greek "leader" that Greece, as a
sovereign nation, no longer exists:
- GREEK PM TSIPRAS SAYS LENDERS GIVE A MESSAGE THAT IN COUNTRIES UNDER A BAILOUT THERE IS NO POINT IN HOLDING ELECTIONS
So the Troika makes it clear that countries under a bailout, such as a Greece was and is about to be indefinitely again, democracy is finished and the country becomes a sovereign ward of a few unelected bureaucrats, and the Greek "prime minister" who also just admitted he is now nothing but a puppet of Greece's new unelected leaders, is Ok with this.
The good news, at least for those who seek to connect dots, is we can now close the book on what Schauble was talking about when he said "Aber glauben Sie mir, das Problem ist lösbar" in this 2011 interview with Welt am Sontag:
Schauble: "We decided to arrive at a political union via an economic and currency union. We had the hope - and we still have it today - that the Euro will gradually bring about political union. But we're not there yet, and that's one of the reasons why the markets are distrustful.
Welt am Sonntag: "So will the markets now force us into a political union?"
Schauble: "Most member states are not yet fully prepared to accept the necessary constraints on national sovereignty. But trust me the problem can be solved."
At this point it is probably also worth repeating what Latvia's outgoing president Berzins said two weeks ago:
[the Greek] debt is so big that everyone understands that it won’t be repaid.... Loans to Greece have just bought time so that those in power don’t have to take decisions. This is like a game: who can hold out longer by not showing that this money has been lost? This burden has become bigger and there obviously is no possibility to repay.... The debt writedown of Greek debt will come after bankruptcy of state.
Perhaps it is only fitting that democracy officially dies in the country in which it was born, a country which is about to very clearly demonstrate to the rest of the world that in this day and age, banks have infinitely more power and leverage that "sovereign" nations.
As for the Greeks: enjoy your now official "second-rate citizen" status as slaves of Brussels bureaucrats even as you liquidate all your most valuable assets, and hand over your gold for the generous honor of being allowed to repay the Troika's debt.
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Wrong. Any country with a central bank really has not legitimate reason to hold elections.
Tsipras gave that message by his actions not the lenders.
This guy is covered in olive oil. Slippery as.
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. - Emma Goldman
The days of Tsipras are numbered.
.... but at least he was well paid off to roll over.
This serves the powers that be - either to make sure nobody bothers voting for Podemos/ Pepe Grillo, or to assure neonazis arrive in power. Actually, it's probably both. Syriza has been a US/NWO trojan horse from the beginning.
What are the Greeks paying their military for, if not to defend Greek sovereignty?
Do they need coordinates for Brussels?
Greeks still have the theoretical power to elect a classical liberal platform that defaults on all the odious debt, severs commitments to UE/NATO, separates State and money, and abolishes all engagements of violence by the State.
But "Greeks" as a collective means nothing (and is an evil concept) - therefore the only way to achieve liberty is not through a collective initiative (organized war, democracy, etc.) but through individual disengagement and resistance.
If there is no point in holding elections then there is no point in having politicians.
When does Tsipras finally and properly rename himself to Vichy?
Riddle me this. If these loans can never be defaulted on then why isn't everyone allowed to lend out ridiculous amounts of money. For example...if Greece would have been the first to loan money to Ireland Portugual, the USA, Belgium, Spain, the UK...etc.etc. they would be sitting fat right now. So Greece just fucking advertise you have Euros to lend at retardedly low rates to any country any time...not to worry as Goldman will get you loan insurance.......and fuck up these bankster asshats.
I mean what's the fuckiing difference?
They want to get all of the globe in so much debt that it all eventually collapses, world revolution, next step towards NWO, not individual countries here and there.
obama's head exploded when he read the title of this article!
The Fourth Reich
All the way from the few remaining Nazi's after hostilities ended in Europe, 1944 forma simple meeting at the Bilderberg Hotel ....
This
Alex Tsipras CANDID First Interview With Greek Public Broadcaster
It seems the Tsipras and Syriza strategy has been to beg for EUR and shame the Germans for being tight-asses in the process (AKA biting the hand that feeds you). Can someone explain to me how that makes the Greeks look good? If the Greek people can't rid themselves of Tsipras they deserve everything that's coming.
"We decided to...But we're not there yet..."
Well, we are there. No sovereign, no election, no country for (wo)men.
Just like destruction of relics and ancient sites, morphing democracy is happening right under (above?) our noses.
These are all but agents of...
Can everyone stop pretending this same shit did not happen to the Germans. Twice. And i might remind everyone we let their country be divided in two.
I don't believe in free elections. I'd like to see an Evangelical Christian dictatorship take over the world. Freedom is overrated.
Ah; you're catching up to me, now. most smart people do, eventually. I"ve been calling it the Fourth Reich for a couple of years now.
If you're claiming you made up the term "Fourth Reich" you oughtta be laughed out of ZH...
yes - i heard Michael Ruppert call it that in 2003 @ Oakland CA talk w/ Richard Heinberg
more recently early 1990s talks by John Judge on YT he calls it that...it probably goes back a ways...
Ever hear of Christopher Story?
Then your still way behind its been happening for decades...
is about to very clearly demonstrate to the rest of the world that in this day and age, banks have infinitely more power and leverage that "sovereign" nations.
Same as it ever was.
The thin veneer of illusory freedom over despotic totalitarianism is ripped off.
Is Greece ready to escape from the European financial dictatorship?
The phrase reads simple "Occupation".
So, Greece is the 1st state occupied in the new large scale war - this time without firing a single arrow, purely trough economical warfare - perfect art of war a la Chinese.
Did he really use the apostrophe like that when he spoke? Jeezus.
You can summarize this situation with a couple of words:
Loathsome and Disgusting!
They have systematically moved private debt into public debt with new collateral terms. When Greece falls they collect all that is Greece (or any other country). The police and military first concern is themselves and their family. They will do any bidding for those who pay their pensions, food and mortgage. Pockets of resistence within the ranks will be cleaned out. Pockets of resistence by the citizens will exterminated. Pockets that are of some concern will be exterminated or caged. And the people will be so brainwashed by the media and so desperate for some hope of a normal life that they will call the police and military heros.
They have sprayed the sky above my city this spring and summer more than I can believe. White haze only. No one notices or would care. Done by our heros in uniform. Tanks and devices installed by groups of people. Tanks filled by groups of people. Flown by heros. They are well taken care of for their silence and will be on the other side of the barb wire.
If you believe the bible.. its going to get much, mucher, muchest worse!
^^^this is the moral hazard that will eventually bring it all down.
There are no real collateral requirements or RISK for loaning/printing/creating money!!!!
Bankers and financiers carry no risk!!! They are in fact nothing but overcompensated middlemen between the printer/computer and the producer/consumer in the real economy.
Hey, wait a minute, I have a printer and a computer...
As far as I can tell, middlemen run the world, because it doesn't seem to be the people who produce and consume.
LoP has been identified.
“Riddle me this. If these loans can never be defaulted on then why isn't everyone allowed to lend out ridiculous amounts of money.”
Answer: It ain’t MONEY.. it’s credit.
And those who allow themselves to be bound by the psychopathically managed “credit” of the credit mongers condemn themselves to slavery, albeit with some trappings of prosperity and freedom.
But ultimately, the end game is austerity and bondage.
The goldfish is free to swim around the goldfish bowl and If the goldfish is fortunate, food sprinkles from above and the cloudy water gets changed occasionally.
Words have power-- It would be most psychologically liberating to many to stop calling dollars dollars and Euros Euros and just call them what they are. 'Credits'.
Frankly, I prefer the term "toilet paper".
I like the concept..
I will borrow it from you in the future..
but I will give you credit for it. :-)
"IN COUNTRIES UNDER A BAILOUT THERE IS NO POINT IN HOLDING ELECTIONS "
The legitimacy of previous politicians disenfranchises contemporary politicians?
Which executive or legislative actions annulled future rights to same?
"If there is no point in holding elections then there is no point in having politicians."
IF there is no recognition of legitimacy to contemporary executive and legislative actions then how can previous executive and legislative actions have legitimacy?
We are really going down the rabbit hole here...
Where is the howling from the proponents of 'democracy' all over the world?
Not even a peep out of US 'democrats' that fight to gift franchise/voting/citizen rights to illegal aliens?
I think there is a saying that "beggars cannot be choosers"...
Wanna be free, don't go hat in hand begging for money...
I dunno, seems like a simple concept
It is for an individual, how does that work when you have a state making decisions on your behalf that you have no control over
the politicians are there to keep the people from killing the bankers
The politicians are there to implement the policies of the Corporations and Oligarchs...just following orders and taking bribes.
It is important to chose which color jack boot is stomping on your face.
Represent yourself.
"But "Greeks" as a collective means nothing (and is an evil concept)"
Why evil????
"therefore the only way to achieve liberty is not through a collective initiative (organized war, democracy, etc.) but through individual disengagement and resistance."
If you want it to work, it should be collective individual disengagement and resistance. If it's not collective, it's as useful as raking water uphill.
Individual action is guaranteed to fail. Why do you think it is so heavily promoted in the USA?
upvote for you lea, 'tho you only picked out a couple things that he didnt make sense on. the craziest one was that individual not collective bs which is so not true, as you point out (most of his diatribe was ramblings with a few good points thrown in). however, i dont think individual action is 'heavily promoted' in the us as much as collective action is discouraged- but only if done by conservatives. if you are liberal or minority, or living off others then your group is encouraged to march, picket. lobby, etc. because your cause is just. because you are a minority so it just must be so. if you are traditional in any way then you are discouraged to collectively act (or demonized)because your ideas are proclaimed to be backward, ie- not progressive and enllightened. so you should just shut up and become more 'tolerant.' funny how the left tosses that tolerance aside when you disagree with Them!
You've just madeDoug Casey's XMAS card list
The only way to separate the state and money is by using bitcoin.
Already on the move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za_jF1DNwfw
hedgless you fuck face, who do you think pays the greek military? it is the banks in brussels.
fucking anti-semite cocksucker.
I think the Greek government probably pays the Greek military, but I honestly cannot think of any reason why they should continue at this point. Can you?
Fire some Greek generals, freeze their bank accounts, and cancel their pensions, today, and then see if some of the colonels don't take action.
Drop them an email if you like this plan: gesdes4gr at army.gr
Well, gentleman, we didn't plan for or see this attack coming. Oh well, off to the Officers' Club...our work is over...Ouzo is in on me!
PS: How is it relevant, teslaberry, that you are fucking someone that sucked the cock of someone that was against semites? And isn't that more of a tweet than a blog post?
http://blogs.ft.com/brusselsblog/2015/06/16/leaked-paper-should-greece-c...
One of the oddities of Greece’s bailout programme has been that, despite five years of punishing austerity, its military budget remains amongst the highest in the EU.
But... is it odd?
http://goo.gl/1DbCyH
^ that might clear it up!
More recently, the far-left government of Alexis Tsipras raised questions when it agreed to sign off on a €500m programme to upgrade five aging US-made maritime patrol aircraft.
Still, the paper notes that even with cuts undertaken over the course of the bailout programme, as of 2013 Greece was still spending more as a percentage of gross domestic product than any other Nato ally save the US or Britain, and is “by far” the country with the largest share of military personnel to population in the EU.
Funny that!
The IMF also pays the US military and all other alphabet agencies. The US treasury is the IMF. The US corporation is in bankruptcy.
The military is for when the bankers need their vassal state to put down the revolt. "MACH SNELL MY BITCHELL !!!
HH, I’m sure you know those are German subs.
If they had the stones..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vwHLMs04XA
With this kind of stuff going on, there shouldn’t be too many conspiracy theories out there that are more far-fetched than reality, granted many conspiracy theories are reality. This revelation, while we really knew it was the case, is pretty scary. If a lot of this farce was about who would get stuck with the blame, the Germans lost that game.
The pay off might have been as little as a bullet not used.
The answer is simple, then don't take the bailout (i.e. free money).
The problem is Greece wants to receive more money to pay for things (pensions) they can not afford. Unfortunately for them they are learning that in life there is no such thing as free money. If you want someone to give you money then you will have to pay something in return.
If Greece doesn't want to pay, then they can say no and not take the free money. But this would mean having to cut back on expenses (pensions) they can not afford and they don't want to do that.
Uh....i am free money.
I used to do business with your father, Other People's.
The only problem here is the diconnect between what the politicians want (i.e. supporting those that bribe them the most) and what an ordinary person wants or even what they understand.
When they 'elect' someone that promises to look out for them, then that politician promotes some deal as positive while it really puts them in more debt, there is a legitimate argument that the debt was fraudulent.
"what an ordinary person wants or even what they understand."
So they are too stupid to know better and/or too greedy to care. Precisely my point, and the creditors' as well.
When elections simply determine who is the intermediary between debtor and creditor, they have truly no purpose whatsoever. Nothing stunning about that. American and British elections retain their copious entertainment value and thus fulfill their purpose.
One premise of the odious debt argument is that, necessarily, the debtor is too stupid to be trusted with their own life. In reality, we all know the Greeks love the euro, even if they don't quite know it themselves, because they have outright refused every opportunity to get rid of it!
Not disagreeing with you that a large portion of voters are too stupid to understand what they are actually voting for, but there is also the problem of things not being disclosed properly. The whole "we have to pass it to know what's in it" bullshit we see on a regular basis. Add on top of that the fact that every .gov estimate for total cost of any bill is always significantly underestimated and I could see the fraudulent debt argument still being valid.
In a perfect world nobody would be able to vote for incurring debt on anyone else's behalf. Nothing like that would ever happen so long as politicians and central banks rule the world though.
Your right, they shouldn't have purchased those German Subs:
German 'Hypocrisy' over Greek Military Spending has critics up in arms
A few months before submarines became the talk of Athens, Yiannis Panagopoulos, who heads the Greek trade union confederation (GSEE), found himself sitting opposite Angela Merkel at a private meeting the German chancellor had called of European trade unionists in Berlin.
When it came to his turn to address the leader, he instinctively popped the question that many in Greece have wanted to ask. "After running through all the reasons why austerity wasn't working in my country I brought up the issue of defence expenditure. Was it right, I asked, that our government makes so many weapons purchases from Germany when it obviously couldn't afford such deals and was slashing wages and pensions?"
Live Greek debt crisis: Tsipras defends bailout deal ahead of crucial vote - live updates Greek prime minister tells state television that Sunday’s bailout deal was a bad night for Europe, but he won’t walk away.Read more
Merkel's reaction was instant. "She immediately said: 'But we never asked you to spend so much of your GDP on defence,'" Panagopoulos recalled. "And then she mentioned the issue of outstanding payments on submarines she said Germany had been owed for over a decade."
Greek profligacy may be blamed for triggering the debt crisis that now threatens to tear the eurozone apart, but if there is one area where Berlin is less excoriating of state largesse it is in Athens's extravagant taste for arms.
Behind the frequent exhortations that Greece rein in spending after living "beyond its means" – admonishments made most loudly by Merkel and her finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble – there is another reality that paints Germany in a less than flattering light, according to MPs, military experts, economists and scholars.
"If there is one country that has benefited from the huge amounts Greece spends on defence it is Germany," said Dimitris Papadimoulis, an MP with the Coalition of the Radical Left party.
Graphic
"Just under 15% of Germany's total arms exports are made to Greece, its biggest market in Europe," Papadimoulis said, reeling off figures from a scruffy armchair in his party's parliamentary office. "Greece has paid over €2bn (£1.6bn) for submarines that proved to be faulty and which it doesn't even need.
"It owes another €1bn as part of the deal. That's three times the amount Athens was asked to make in additional pension cuts to secure its latest EU aid package."
According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri), France is not far behind. Some 10% of its total arms sales go to Greece, which is a member of Nato. From 2002 to 2006, Greece was the world's fourth biggest importer of conventional weapons. It is now the 10th.
"As a proportion of GDP, Greece spends twice as much as any other EU member on defence," said Papadimoulis, who is also a former MEP.
"Well after the economic crisis had begun, Germany and France were trying to seal lucrative weapons deals even as they were pushing us to make deep cuts in areas like health."
...
Hey kinda like the US. War/military industrial complex sell military hardware to the good guys who eventually become the bad guys, so sell more arms to the previous bad guys who are now the good guys. Spend trillions on war and armed services empires while the demographic economic health care time bomb is ticking down to detonation.
Well golly gee, we can change all this via the Jeffersonian democratic process. Why we will just have a good ole national debate and vote on the merits of the political platform of our elected officials, who will honor our democratic process and follow the will of the people of Merica. Yep, Yep, I am going to go down and register to vote right now!!!!
By free money, you mean printed fiat out of thin air, correct?
Regardless, it's not about the present or future, it's about the $320bln outstanding, which any institution under any other circumstances would default on in full, except that if you join the euro, you're fucked. The message from this is never join the EZ and get the fuck out if you can.
So Greeks will voluntarily initiate Grexit. Any. Minute. Now. No really. Any. Second.
Non sequitur.
Are you a creditor who is getting screwed in this? Or on a loan you made somewhere? It is not my business, I understand. But it would explain some of your position in this.
No one should have lent.
No one should have borrowed in that deal.
If your money was lent, and the one handling it did not do due dilligence for you, it is their fault, not the dead beat that is not paying you back.
These folks benefit if their clients win, or lose. Think about that.
If I was in the spot of losing money I did not personally lend, but trusted someone else to vet the borrower, my wrath goes to the middle man. If I lent the money myself, it is a gamble I took. It is on me. If they lied to me, I was screwed, I need to educate myself better.
In the Greek situation, the lender told the borrower to lie on the application. Told them everyone was doing it. Told them they would not get in trouble because to go after them is to go after everyone who was doing it. Then the lender sold that crap into the market, collected his/her commission, then turned around and shorted it.
Let me know where I got this wrong. I can feel you want to blame the borrower, but don't you want to target the one with the fiduciary duty in this situation?
o
"The problem is Greece wants to receive more money to pay for things (pensions) they can not afford. Unfortunately for them they are learning that in life there is no such thing as free money. If you want someone to give you money then you will have to pay something in return. "
The bureaucrats and 'retirees' are selling their children and grandchildren into slavery.
SLAVES FOR MONEY ( 'PENSIONS' ).
It is that fucking simple.
People can stop working if they sell someone into slavery OR they can continue to work and pay for what they require/desire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7HHElm_9Co
Are the Greeks still allowed to retire at 50 with a pension equivalent to 95% of their top earnings, what a deal!! plus they did not have to pay their taxes on their wages in the first place.
Slightly sarcastic, I know there have been some changes made. I sure can't blame the Germans for being pissed off about the charade.
HASHTAG: Truth hurts!
Why in the world is their no bank run in portugal... they are next...oh wait it can never happen here
Unfortunately he may be there to stay. He gave the creditors a better agreement than they ever could have imagined. He serves his purpose, by silencing at least part of the traditional (left) opposition who are too caught up in an imagined left/right divide to see what is happening.
It seems some of those early politicians' heads should roll first. Make a point ya know
Yeah, well; it's tough when you don't have any balls. They do have a Greek Govt. they just need to get the right idea; DEFAULT. Rejection of EU; Rejection of NATO; all foreigners not on a tourist visa; evicted and not allowed back. Start over again with Drachmas; it's not complicated; Fear isn't going to get them anywhere.
Voting does not matter because any citizen in their right mind would vote to get away from a central planning monetary authority, as they did in Greece. As long as Draghi breathes, Greece and more countries will be looted.
Voting is a setup to give the illusion of choice, then the laws and rules are dictated by the moneymen.
Change can only come through revolution.
<-------- revolt
<-------- slave
1. Revolt
2. Chaos
3. Power grab
4. Slavery
Sometime around 20/25 years ago California voted on Prop.212 I think the number was. This proposition said that no social service help be given to illegal aliens. California voted YES on this but the Calif. Supreme Court said it was illegal. You would think if it was illegal it could not have been voted on in the first place.
That was Prop. 187 in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187
That;s fucking crazy.
"as they did in Greece."
There has been no referendum on eurozone membership. The Greek electorate was explicitly promised that a No vote in the latest bailout offer referendum would not lead to Grexit.
How is the kool-aid?
Draghi is as nothing versus the greed of the Europeans he serves.
currency is money and credit is gold and currency is value and gold is barbarous and fed prints gold and dollar is in backwardation. the fed is dumping gold in the comex to suppress the value of currency. people are being paid in gold if they lend their precious fiat to the market
First rule of DEBT CLUB. You are a SLAVE in DEBT CLUB.
Second rule of DEBT CLUB. There is NO use in VOTING in DEBT CLUB. Because......WE OWN YOU !!!
Here's all you need to know about voting from George Carlin.
"Voting is meaningless"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeMGqTwWA6U
"They OWN you"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Wrong. Any country with a central bank really has not legitimate reason to hold elections.
Wrong my friend because Greece's central bank is privately owned and in fact has the right to not disclose who its shareholders are. If you are interested you can buy shares in it as it is traded on the Athens Stock Exchange (if it opens again).
Ownership of all central banks can be traced back to a select group of mentally ill people. That seems to reinforce my point though. Psycopathic criminals control the monetary and political system no matter who they allow to be elected...
When do brain-dead Americans realize this is the case here as well...Do Not Vote
Greeks will be the new Africans with flies in their eyes as Sally Struthers heads over there to film commercials for aid. I can't believe this.
But I called this several times here - they can't afford their sovereignty. And they lost it.
CORRECT, Freedom in your...
In the first comment posted:
Central banks are the National Kings of Fraud, inside of the globalized systems controlled by the international bankers. Any elections which presume that will continue are farces. However, it is politically impossible to be able to hold any elections which could result in changing that, due to the Catch 22, double-bind paradoxes! For all practical purposes, the established monetary system has become like a totally metastasized cancer, that is killing its own host. However, that situation has become so advanced now that any treatments would precipitate probably fatal crises, while allowing that to continue means that the future crises will surely be even more fatal. Overall, the ways that ENFORCED FRAUDS now totally dominate every sociopolitical institution means that society has become too terminally sick and insane to recover.
As one goes back in time, it becomes possible to imagine that it MIGHT have been possible to change things, however, upon deeper reflection, it is painfully obvious how and why that did NOT happen.
The longest serving Prime Minister of Canada, William Lyon Mackenzie King, stated, while NOT the government, in 1935:
However, when back in power, Mackenzie King continued to do what the Rothschields and Rockefellers, et alia, actually wanted to be done. Only when in the Loyal Opposition, did MacKenzie King dare to utter more of the radical truths.
IF an influential politician actually does something that the banksters do not like, then there is a high probability that politician will be assassinated, such as the case with Abraham Lincoln, who stated:
"Democracy" is already about 99% DEAD everywhere in the world, as demonstrated by the degree that "We the People" control the public "money" supply. Creating the money supply, as a public utility, should be government's supreme prerogative, and greatest creative opportunity, and its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility. Instead, giving away the power to make that "money" out of nothing to private banks was the most insane domestic policy that a government could ever adopt! However, it is easy to explain the history of how that actually happened. It was simply the history of the application of the methods of organized crime to take control over governments, in a runaway spiral of the success of fraud enabling those who did that to constantly be able to get away with even more frauds. That started more slowly and secretly. However, it was on an exponential growth curve, so that it now is becoming blatantly obvious to even mainstream morons that the banksters have become the new royalty, who are above the law, because they effectively control the political processes.
THE PROBLEM is that after one faces the social facts that the banksters ARE the biggest gangsters, who were able to take control over governments through applying the methods of organized crime, all THEORIES about what monetary reforms should be are still born in that situation. THEORIES of what "money" should be are actually irrelevant when what money IS has already become runaway frauds, backed by force, while those who are able to do that have collectively become a group of trillionaire mass murderers.
The REAL SOLUTIONS depend on facing the facts regarding the REAL PROBLEMS, which are that money is backed by murder, and therefore, the best organized gangs of criminals have taken control over the money system, and one of the primary ways that they were able to do that was through assassination of politicians who refused to be bribed or intimidated to become the puppets of the banksters. Thereby, the governmental powers to rob, and to kill to back up the power to rob, have been effectively privatized, by the real control over the power to rob transferred to the banksters, through their frauds becoming runaway symbolic robberies.
THE SOURCE OF THAT IS EVERYONE HAS SOME POWER TO ROB, AND POWER TO KILL TO BACK THAT UP, WHICH POWERS WERE ASSEMBLED AND CHANNELED INTO THE FORM OF GOVERNMENTS (WHICH CHARTERED CORPORATIONS, WHICH ENDED UP TAKING CONTROL OVER THOSE GOVERNMENTS, INSTEAD OF "WE THE PEOPLE.")
Since the sovereign powers of "We the People" have already been about 99% PRIVATIZED, and that is now a runaway situation, which is driving the government to become the worst enemy of the People, because the government is actually being controlled by the banksters. Any REAL SOLUTIONS, therefore, can NOT actually be through some sort of sane monetary reforms. Rather, what MIGHT happen is the eventual psychotic breakdown of the current runaway frauds, which MAY provoke some kind of monetary revolution. ??? However, given that overwhelming vast majority of "We the People" do not understand, and do not want to understand, any of the basic social facts about their monetary system, it is almost impossible to imagine how BAD that psychotic breakdown could eventually become, and therefore, just as difficult to speculate about what could be rebuilt after that.
Greece is merely one of the symbolic leading edges which is demonstrating the degree to which there is practically nothing but a core of organized crime, surrounded by layers of controlled opposition. There are NO governments that I am aware of which are not based on social pyramid systems, built on the foundation of enforcing frauds. Furthermore, the general populations everywhere in the world have adapted to living inside of those enforced frauds for generation after generation.
The general population of Greeks are not able to elect representatives which were not some form of controlled opposition. Yet, there is no point in holding elections unless there was enough of the population which would face the basic facts that money is measurement backed by murder, because the debt controls were backed by the death controls. The ONLY genuine responses to the international banksters dominating the world through being the biggest gangsters would have to be better organized crime, because the central issues must be the overall death control systems, with the human murder systems at the central focus of the most symbolic and reverberating of those death control systems.
Since it is politically impossible to stop the successful politicians being the banksters' puppets, voted for by enough of the banksters' muppets, there are no ways to change anything in sufficient ways to stop "democracy" from being a cruel joke. "Democracy" is nothing but a pathetic FAKE when the People do not control the public money supply. However, the People could not actually do that unless they were also able and willing to control the public murder systems.
Since that is politically impossible, the only plausible futures are that the established systems of DEBT SLAVERY BACKED BY WARS BASED ON DECEITS will continue to generate numbers which become debt insanities, which will provoke death insanities. The continued triumphs of the banksters systems, whereby government enforce the frauds by privately controlled banks being able to create the public "money" supplies out of nothing as debts, are that the resulting debt insanities will provoke death insanities. What the controlled opposition governments do is postpone that, in ways which will make it eventually become way worse in the future.
Overall, since the vast majority of "We the People" have become Zombie Sheeple, the most probable futures are for them to continue to be fleeced to exhaustion, while they are set up to be slaughtered. Even more tragically, since civilization is controlled by backing up lies with violence, in ways which have become psychotic criminal insanities, the most probable longer term futures are for the human species to commit collective suicide, where the younger you are, the more probable it becomes that that will be your fate.
Each additional increment of the short to medium term social successfulness of the banksters' systems based on governments enforcing frauds drives civilization as a whole towards self-destruction in the longer term. The DEBT SLAVERY systems have already become runaways. What those were basically doing were creating "money" out of nothing as debts to "pay" for strip-mining the planet's natural resources. Civilization was doing that in Greece for a long, long time, at an exponentially accelerating rate, and so, given those deeply entrenched morbid social habits, pretty well nobody is able to do anything practical to prevent that from continuing to automatically get worse, faster ...
Greece is one of the leading edges, since Greece, as the symbolic birth place of "democracy" is now the symbolic hostage that the kidnappers are killing to prove that they are serious. However, the overall problems are WAY WORSE than merely that. It is Neolithic Civilization itself that has become bankrupt, not merely Greece.
The bankruptcy of Greece is due to the Greek People not being able and willing to understand that money is measurement backed by murder, because the debt controls are backed by the death controls. Instead, the biggest gangsters, the international bankers are doing that to the Greeks, in ways which will eventually be done to everyone, including even the banksters in the end. The entire system is based upon enforcing frauds, and that system is heading towards the paradox of final failure from too much success.
Greece is already integrated into the globalized systems of electronic monkey money frauds, backed by the threat of force from apes with atomic bombs. Greece can not get out of that, and could not get out other than after far worse decline and fall of that globalized civilization happened, due to factors beyond its control, or factors that it allowed to spiral out of control.
Indeed, the international bankers originally made and maintained globalized systems of electronic frauds, backed by atomic bombs, which Greece became more fully integrated into when it joined the European Union and adopted the EU. Those who promote bogus "solutions" that Greece should get out of that tend to be typical of the rest of the population, which want to continue to believe in nostalgic nonsense, as they drive "into the future" while looking in the rear view mirror, and while not appreciating that everything in that mirror appears backwards.
The degree to which civilization is controlled by financial systems based on ENFORCING FRAUDS shows up as various symptoms, in various places, and various times. However, the basic disease is the way that being able to back up lies with violence never stops those lies from still being false. Therefore, human civilization is actually based upon that increasingly severe paradox, which results in civilization overall always becoming more psychotic, proportional to the degree that enforcing frauds becomes more socially successful, in each short to medium term increment, regardless of what the longer term consequences of that kind of psychoses will eventually become.
The existence of Central Banks, as National Fraud Kings, is merely a leading symbol of the deeper problems that civilization is controlled by organized crime. The problems that Greeks are having are another of the leading symbols that everyone else shares in, to the degree that Neolithic Civilization dominates the whole world through being able to back up lies with violence, wherein the financial enforced frauds are the most important manifestation of that. The problems that there is almost nothing but a core of organized crime (the banksters) surrounded by layers of controlled opposition (such as the current Greek government), are WAY MORE PROFOUND than the vast majority of people have the slightest clues about. The "democracy" is already DEAD to the degree that the public "money" supply has already been privatized. However, the degree of privatization of the monetary system is now having the privatization of the murder systems catch up to that.
The DEEPER PROBLEMS are the ways in which the vast majority of people have been brainwashed to believe in bullshit, to the degree that they want to continue to believe in bullshit. That money is necessarily measurement backed by murder is a FACT that both the ruling classes, as well as most of those they rule over, do not want to admit and address. Rather, the established systems of enforcing frauds continue to be operated by the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrites. Hence, it is not surprising to discover more and more confirmations that the current government of Greece is like that.
There are always at least TWO levels to the problems that the existing financial systems are based upon enforced frauds, the FIRST level is the denial of those facts, and the SECOND level is the denial of how and why those must necessarily be the facts. Since governments provide the force to back up frauds by privately controlled banks, the connections between those enforced frauds, or that the death controls back up the debt controls, are able to be as deliberately disregarded as much as possible, by most of the People, inside of that FAKE democracy, which depends upon the FAKE education of the vast majority of the People.
That degree of divorce between the money system and the murder system enables those operating those systems to deliberately ignore each other as much as possible, while those inside each system specializes as much as possible at doing their own specialized labour. Overall, almost nobody looks at the bigger picture, of the combined money/murder systems. Certainly, the vast majority of the people, and their so-called governments do NOT look at that bigger picture. After all, the established systems depend upon the vast majority of the people continuing to act like incompetent political idiots, who have been brainwashed to believe in the biggest bullies' absurdly backward world view, to the degree that they deeply want to continue to believe in that bullshit.
The fake "democratic" governments, which operate as controlled opposition, are elected by enough of the People who also think like controlled opposition. Within that context, a few of those People wake up to the degree that the social facts are enforced frauds, whereby the governments are the biggest forms of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals. However, those few still stay inside the ruts of still thinking like controlled opposition, that still wants to believe in the biggest bullies, or still basically take for granted the banksters' bullshit.
If and only if enough of the People understood that there must be some combined money/murder systems, whereby money is measurement backed by murder, would those People have the ability to operate better democratic control of the public money system. However, at the present time, while more and more the deteriorating conditions are driving greater recognition of the ways that the international banksters are the biggest gangsters, which have been controlling national governments to enforce those banksters' frauds, there continues to virtual no deeper understanding of how and why that situation developed to actually exist.
The established systems of organized crime have been able to so totally control their opposition so much, for so long, that there is nothing publicly significant that exists which is not doing that. Therefore, no matter how much worse the situation gets, there continues to be nothing publicly available but worse forms of controlled opposition groups, to provide bogus "solutions" to the established systems now dominated by the international banksters. Therefore, by far the most probable futures are for the existing DEBT SLAVERY to drive worse and worse DEBT INSANITIES, which have no other resolutions than to provoke DEATH INSANITIES.
The only realistic resolutions to those real problems which are better would take better death controls, to back up better debt controls. However, doing anything remotely close to that is politically impossible at the present time, because all of the established sociopolitical institutions are now being operated by the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrites. Hence, over and over again, we witness that the next crop of opposition that becomes the government is yet again revealed to be controlled opposition, which allows the overall problems to continue to get even worse!
The only successful opposition to the current ruling class will come when some critical threshold is passed for number of people using a decentralized monetary system and opting out of .gov programs / regulations. Whether that system is some crypto currency, precious metals, or whatever else doesn't really matter. It just has to be something that isn't centrally controlled and isn't created out of nothing by the people who gather the biggest weapons.
I think you are right about that.
It may merely be an early phase of the diminishing returns from being able to strip-mine the planet's natural resources, after those concentrated natural resources have been high-graded to hell. The centralized systems depend upon there being enough concentrated energy, and other mineral resources, to make those able to support concentrated, centralized, social control. Hence, the diminishment of centralized control may occur because it is no longer economically viable to maintain those kinds of centralized systems, after the natural resources that made that possible no longer exist in sufficiently concentrated quantities to make that workable.
Yah, the central planner miedras bureaucrats, central bankster thieves and corrupt elected ruling political elite b*sturds all say "fuk the will of the people"......
you are right, but now the bankers are making a HUGE mistake. They have been keeping that charade for so long and brainwashing people that we live in democracy, we have elections etc. and that this is the most important thing in the world, so important that we should go to wars to keep and spread democracy! Our entire Western world is based on this idea of (fake) democracy. This idea has hold everything together. Most people have believed in this so far. But now the charade is falling apart. Now it will become too obvious for people that there is no democracy. Even the most stupid people will now be able to see that there is no demcracy - in other words now people will be able to see that the emperor has no clothes. People will now see that the emperor is not invincible. This is a HUGE psychological change. Trust me, it changes everything. Most people are stupid, so they need something to believe in, only then you can control them. But once you show them the stark reality, you will gradually loose your ability to control them. I can see it all around Europe. People are starting to wake up. Once again: all dictators in history were successful only as long as they were able to provide two basic things: food and games (charade, ideology). Once you are not able to provide this, people will revolt. This is a very ancient rule of history. Even in the Ancient Egypt, where the pharaoh was considered a God for his subjects, Egyptians were able to overthrow and destroy him, once they were too hungry and once the charade fell apart. It may seem strange, but this idea of fake democracy was the only thing that kept most people in check. And now when the idea is destroyed?
To take your very good points a step further, even the revolts against the previous ruling class end up getting hijacked and mentally ill criminals find their way in power once more.
Hopefully america is only a few years behind europe in the reality bitch slap lesson, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are still much closer to the beginning of this mess than the end.
When enough people realize that a mentally, psychologically, and physically mature adult does not need a master or ruler or representative or whatever else they call it, then we can start moving on to a much better society.
Yes, gloves off in the Bankster Cagefight, and no longer backed by 'full faith and credit'. Curious that the word FAITH and FIAT are so similar. 'Faith' is spelled with 'FIAT' plus an 'H'...the 'H' must be for 'Highway to Hell'.
The 7 stages of betrayal:
- Shock or Disbelief
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Guilt
- Depression
- Acceptance and Hope
(http://proactivechange.com/stress/grief-stages.htm)
My delicious disillusionment got an early start with the broken lies of Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Mary Lou from up the road, then family break-up, and from then on the relentless dissappointments of adulthood and professional/business dealings. I no longer have faith in belief, so have withdrawn my belief and consent, in and to, the so-called 'social contract'. Am now requiring proof positive in the form of documentation, and the Counterpart of the social contract' that I have never seen, let alone accepted and counter-signed. I demand to see the original, with my wet-ink signature. Irony is that I'm requiring proof from the liars and fraudsters who created and toll-booth the scam. However, in the juristiction of Law Commerce/Admiralty Law/UCC/, the legal name is a Corporate Entity, and quite other from the flesh and blood entity with no juristiction between oneself and their Creator. I can work with that.
Worth exploring these concepts as they can be a path to sovereign freedom. Just have to be prepared to have your material possessions stolen, and/or be killed. Appears melodramatic but unfortunately it's coming to this. I see ruthless criminals who are acting above the law, apparently with impunity. If you're in Greece, it already is.
Good source here: https://kateofgaia.wordpress.com/kates-writings/
Maybe there was truth to what they stated. Don't bother with the sham of elections, go right to guns and untraviolence. Maybe then they will negotiate in good faith. Why waste time?
Bitcoin FTW.
She is likely to become sidelined very shortly, together with around 14 other members of Syriza's left-wing.
Unfortunately you are probably right. But she has guts. And she has a following. She could start a new party with Syriza members who vote No.
Athens, grab your pitchforks.
Athens, grab your ankles.
FIFY
How can bankruptcy exist with no debt write downs ?
Greece can pay back the debt with IOU
Haha..like Herr Scheizzball's salary and pension should be...
Tsipras is a posterchild for corruption and idiots that are called politicians.
I don't think he is corrupt. But he is an idiot who has bought into the whole EU is God's gift to the planet b.s.
Who will be Spartacus?
Who will be the bitch in the pink dress: Tsipras.
In Greece it's "He's Spartacus!"
All because of money created out of thin air...
There will be war!
https://miltonchurchill.wordpress.com/2015/07/14/the-coming-civil-wars/
Bugs Bunny-This Means War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAj-TWUq0E (0:16)
Tsipras reminds me of Emiliano Zapata.
They both live by Zapata's motto: "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
are there no patriots in Greece?
Apparently they are all waiting in line for an EBT card
After which they wait in line for the ATM.
Golden Dawn must be having stroke.
i guess every fan that gets butt-raped by his idol has had that kind of stroke.
renamed Golden Showers.
Well i said it before,i ll say that again, sack the whole parliament and bring some german low ranking officials and make it official.See if it holds and how long.Just stop the freakin theater that this EU has become.
Let Democracy die at it's birth place
He should resign after what he has done, he is a traitor
As are all politicians. He was just put in a position where his true stance couldn't be concealed as well as most others.
Looks like Herr Merkel got herself a Puerto Rico.
"Perhaps it is only fitting that democracy officially dies in the country in which it was born, a country which clearly demonstrates to the rest of the world that in this day and age, banks have more power that countries."
And there it is. Well said Tyler. Sad fuckan times we live in....
This isn't the banks but the politicians giving away free shit to get elected - shit they do not have.
Bulllshit. They own the politicians. If you cant see that the Central Banks and their ilk are the main problem in the world today then there is no hope trying to reason with you.
The politicians have a choice, destroy a country to get elected or not.
They chose to destroy their country to get elected - just like 0bama and his ilk.
The corrupt banks are a symptom of the corruption in government, actual leaders would cut off the heads of that serpent.
Keep dreaming. The politicians are just useful idiots. They have no real power or muscle to challenge the money masters and deep state shadow govt.
A greedy politician has no power because money is his master.
Politicians have a choice to sell their souls for personal gain or not. They don't care about country, rights or laws they care about yachts and mansions and stocks.
You looking for a leader? That is the problem to start.
Your last comment is the real problem. If people are too immature to rule themselves, it is just a matter of time before the psychopathic portion of society finds a way to get wealthy without producing anything by ruling people who don't want to rule themselves.
When you really get down to it, I think it's a symptom of our evolution as a species that was necessary for most of our existence for survival, but now it's become a hindrance to any further cultural, societal, spiritual, or philosophical progress.
We are either going back to a more tribal close knit community structure world wide, or we are going to continue evolving into a self ruling species.
Said like the cowardly Communist he is.
"GREEK PM TSIPRAS SAYS LENDERS GIVE A MESSAGE THAT IN COUNTRIES UNDER A BAILOUT THERE IS NO POINT IN HOLDING ELECTIONS"
This is just how socialists think - 'How am I going to promise free shit to get elected when I don't have any free shit to give.'
Numbskulls.
You are trying, but you sadly do not know much about politicians.
Politicians never think those thoughts in that way lined up like you have them. In the same way as liars never think about the truth as being true, only as being something to avoid.
Politicians know what they want. They want power and from power, theft of treasure. They do not think how they will get power except that they will lie about everything all the time, and like feces rise to the top as honest men lose hope and despair. There is no strategy to lying, only tactics, and the primary tactic is to always lie. About everything. To everyone. There is no profit in being honest, all profit flows from misdirection, confusion and falseness. It is the easiest pathway to power, is the lie. All honest men fall before it ruined. All money flows toward the liar. All opportunity accumulates to him as lies. These are near-universal truths demonstrated through history, the children and creations of the human mind and we birth them again and again and again forever.
You cannot control politicians through legislation. You cannot control the flow of power through legislation. Power will flow to the liar for the liar is it's natural parent.
If you want to control these things then you must resort to murder. Because liars only die, and then they take their power with them.
Maybe there is no point in holding elections.........so, soon it will be people holding guns.
Wonder if a few dead bankers might improve the ol negotiation climate....
Nope.
But "improving negotiations" would not be the main reason for a few dead bankers.
People keep saying "lenders" and "creditors" but it's just the governments of Europe. They are the scumbags.
I didn't care much about the EU / EZ much before this, but boy do I fucking hate the euroscum now.
Time to get the Greece military on the side of the people, close the borders with Europe and take the current government and exile them to Germany, their puppet masters, go to Drachma and talk to Vlad for a little support.
Dear C. Pick,
My guess, when the Greeks call to arms, they might be better off staying behind their northern border because as I read the research, showing up in Germany targets you as a first class debt slave to debt you did not create or get to use, i.e., debt the bankers and politicians incurred in your name.
While everybody blames the German people for their calloused domination of fellow Europeans, an ECB study shows they ain’t doing so well themselves (unless of course you are a “German” banker or a “German” oligarch). NOTE:
In 2013, the ECB released a survey of European household wealth that placed Germans among the poorest people in Europe. The median German household reported net worth of €50,000, compared with €100,000 in Greece, €110,000 in France, and €180,000 in Spain (converting household wealth to wealth per capita left the basic pattern unchanged). According to survey analysts, “The pattern is essentially the same if you look at assets rather than net worth — median household assets are lower in Germany than almost anywhere else in Europe, including the countries of the Mediterranean.”
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/home/pdf/research/HFCS_Statistical_Tables_Wave1.pdf
I do not fault the citizen's of any country in Europe, but rather their overseers who allowed all of this to occur.
Like the rest of the world they promise much and deliver little or opposite that which voters expect.
Like the American Revolution, it is time people set out to right this huge disconnect. Most people, given the facts, will vote according to what they think is best for their country.
We call them sheeple, but are they really? I think there is a huge disconnect between perception and reality.
Thanks, cherry picker. You’re absolutely right. And I think we have a responsibility to keep people from constantly blaming the German people for what the bankers and their politicians do, especially when they are actually made to suffer for these decisions.
I am thinking that the creditors don't get to make that choice. They created the fiat out of thin air and then claim that by giving that nothing to Greece they get to rule it?
Bullshit.
Lot's of people agree with the ploy because lot's of people crave that kind of power. And so long as they do the song plays on.