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Greece Is Just The Beginning: The 21st Century 'Enclosures' Have Begun
Submitted by Paul Craig Roberts,
All of Europe, and insouciant Americans and Canadians as well, are put on notice by Syriza’s surrender to the agents of the One Percent. The message from the collapse of Syriza is that the social welfare system throughout the West will be dismantled.
The Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras has agreed to the One Percent’s looting of the Greek people of the advances in social welfare that the Greeks achieved in the post-World War II 20th century. Pensions and health care for the elderly are on the way out. The One Percent needs the money.
The protected Greek islands, ports, water companies, airports, the entire panoply of national patrimony, is to be sold to the One Percent. At bargain prices, of course, but the subsequent water bills will not be bargains.
This is the third round of austerity imposed on Greece, austerity that has required the complicity of the Greeks’ own governments. The austerity agreements serve as a cover for the looting of the Greek people literally of everything. The IMF is one member of the Troika that is imposing the austerity, despite the fact that the IMF’s economists have said that the austerity measures have proven to be a mistake. The Greek economy has been driven down by the austerity. Therefore, Greece’s indebtedness has increased as a burden. Each round of austerity makes the debt less payable.
But when the One Percent is looting, facts are of no interest. The austerity, that is the looting, has gone forward despite the fact that the IMF’s economists cannot justify it.
Greek democracy has proven itself to be impotent. The looting is going forward despite the vote one week ago by the Greek people rejecting it. So what we observe in Alexis Tsipras is an elected prime minister representing not the Greek people but the One Percent.
The One Percent’s sigh of relief has been heard around the world. The last European leftist party, or what passes as leftist, has been brought to heel, just like Britain’s Labour Party, the French Socialist Party, and all the rest.
Without an ideology to sustain it, the European left is dead, just as is the Democratic Party in the US. With the death of these political parties, the people no longer have any voice. A government in which the people have no voice is not a democracy. We can see this clearly in Greece. One week after the Greek people express themselves decisively in a referendum, their government ignores them and accommodates the One Percent.
The American Democratic Party died with jobs offshoring, which destroyed the party’s financial base in the manufacturing unions. The European left died with the Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union was a symbol that there existed a socialist alternative to capitalism. The Soviet collapse and “the end of history” deprived the left of an economic program and left the left-wing, at least in America, with “social issues” such as abortion, homosexual marriage, gender equality, and racism, which undermined the left-wing’s traditional support with the working class. Class warfare disappeared in the warfare between heterosexuals and homosexuals, blacks and whites, men and women.
Today with the Western peoples facing re-enserfment and with the world facing nuclear war as a result of the American neoconservatives’ claim to be History’s chosen people entitled to world hegemony, the American left is busy hating the Confederate battle flag.
The collapse of Europe’s last left-wing party, Syrzia, means that unless more determined parties arise in Portugal, Spain, and Italy, the baton passes to the right-wing parties - to Nigel Farage’s UK Independence Party, to Marine Le Pen’s National Front in France, and to other right-wing parties who stand for nationalism against national extermination in EU membership.
Syriza could not succeed once it failed to nationalize the Greek banks in response to the EU’s determination to make them fail. The Greek One Percent have the banks and the media, and the Greek military shows no sign of standing with the people. What we see here is the impossibility of peaceful change, as Karl Marx and Lenin explained.
Revolutions and fundamental reforms are frustrated or overturned by the One Percent who are left alive. Marx, frustrated by the defeat of the Revolutions of 1848 and instructed by his materialist conception of history, concluded, as did Lenin, Mao, and Pol Pot, that leaving the members of the old order alive meant counter-revolution and the return of the people to serfdom. In Latin America every reformist government is vulnerable to overthrow by US economic interests acting in conjunction with the Spanish elites. We see this process underway today in Venezuela and Ecuador.
Duly instructed, Lenin and Mao eliminated the old order. The class holocaust was many times greater than anything the Jews experienced in the Nazi racial holocaust. But there is no memorial to it.
To this day Westerners do not understand why Pol Pot emptied Cambodia’s urban areas. The West dismisses Pol Pot as a psychopath and mass murderer, a psychiatric case, but Pol Pot was simply acting on the supposition that if he permitted representatives of the old order to remain his revolution would be overthrown. To use a legal concept enshrined by the George W. Bush regime, Pol Pot pre-empted counter-revolution by striking in advance of the act and eliminating the class inclined to counter-revolution. The class genocide associated with Lenin, Mao, and Pol Pot are the collateral damage of revolution.
The English conservative Edmund Burke said that the path of progress was reform, not revolution. The English elite, although they dragged their heels, accepted reform in place of revolution, thus vindicating Burke. But today with the left so totally defeated, the One Percent does not have to agree to reforms. Compliance with their power is the only alternative.
Greece is only the beginning. Greeks driven out of their country by the collapsed economy, demise of the social welfare system, and extraordinary rate of unemployment will take their poverty to other EU countries. Members of the EU are not bound by national boundaries and can freely emigrate. Closing down the support system in Greece will drive Greeks into the support systems of other EU countries, which will be closed down in turn by the One Percent’s privatizations.
The 21st century Enclosures have begun.
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"The message from the collapse of Syriza is that the social welfare system throughout the West will be dismantled."
Stop it. I'm getting all misty.
No shit, as if the collapse of the welfare state is a bad thing. And I usually like PCR but this one was crap. All this 'one percent' nonsense is bullshit. And no, I don't qualify as a 'one percenter'. As if it's rich people doing all of this. The problem isn't 'the one percent', the problem is central banks and debt based fiat currency. All this eat the rich nonsense sounds like something a guy on Salon would write. Greece tried to erect a giant welfare state for a group of people that doesn't want to pay taxes. Can't have low taxes with tons of loopholes and have a giant welfare state with a massive public sector, despite what you have been told
Blaming rich people is nothing but divide and conquer class warfare bullshit. PCR is smart enough to know better. Take every penny from every rich person there still won't be enough because the problem is, again, a debt based form of money and the bankers who can create unlimited amounts of it out of thin air.
I feel like I'm being plagiarized by the media.. >.>
http://galeinnes.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-awakening-of-technology.html
Austerity.. cool.
You lose fat.. you get skinny and in Greece you can even have a year long whole body tan.
OK, well it can get into the low teens C or below but that does not mean you can’t sleep outside.
I’ve done it many times there albeit with a fair amount of Greek Heineken in the bloodstream.
So.. OOPA to all my Greek friends and hookers.
I fully agree with NoDebt and greenskeeper carl. What is PCR's reaction to the greek attitude to vote for free shit and not to be willing to carry their own weight? Greece as a nation needs to grow up and take responsibility. Don't just blame it on evil bankers, but look into the mirror. As posted the other day by Vullsain, this article from 2011 gives you some insight:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2007949/The-Big-Fat-Greek-Gravy-...
Don't get me wrong, I have some amount of sympathy for the Greeks, but they keep voting for socialist govts who promise them everything then get surprised when they can't deliver. They demand an end to austerity when there has been no austerity- they still spend more than they take in in taxes= not austerity. The people of the country view taxation as theft and do their best to avoid it, a view I am sympathetic with, yet they also demand a govt that provides everything for them and takes care of all their needs. Can't have both things. These current politicians like Varafoukis, talking about an end to austerity, blah blah blah. All that means is spending more money, more money that they don't have. So what he and his ill are really promising to do is borrow more money, run up more debt, or, if they leave the euro, print themselves to oblivian, which will mean they won't be able to import jack shit.
And this article suggested the thing to do was nationalize the banks?!? What the fuck good would that do? Do you REALLY want your bank controlled by a bunch of Marxist/socialist politicians? None of this shit article mentions sound money, not ridding the world of central banks and legal tender laws, therefore it isn't a real solution at all.
I'm of the opinion that there are no 'good guys' in this
The Greek people have voted and will continue to vote as they default on loans at record pace. The Italians and French are next, mortgages, cars, credit cards etc.
2 obvious ways to ruin a bank pull out all of your money and stop paying on the loans.
Or you could short gold and go long biotech....but only if you want to be rich and not have to deal with any of this nonsense.
What the Greeks need is an ultra right-wing government to get them back on their feet. A theocracy might be the ticket for them. They could also use FEMA trailers and free health-care. Those tender mercies would tide them over for now.
The "capitulation" of Tsipras is a pyrhic victory for Germany and the 1% (ouside of (Greece, that is).
Ask yourself why Syriza has not made a big deal about the boatloads of immigrants who have been washing up on their shores. For Syriza, like the Dems in the USA and Labour in the UK, these are the replacement voters who will cement their grip on power for years to come. And you can safely bet that Tsipras will turn the rescue of these poor waifs into a cash cow from the EU to Greece.
At the end of the day, the EU will not mobilise one tank or ship to hold the islands or the airports that the Greeks will nationalise once their criminal elite have secreted their share of the proceeds in some nice far corner of the world.
Germany can scarcely afford more victories like that, and that is why Grexit is actually in its best interest.
good thoughts
The Greeks, Sicilians, southern Italians etc. have 5000+ years of experience dealing with invaders from the Frozen North. They will find a way to deal with a few whimpy bankers in expensive suits. After all, they survived the Vikings, who were a lot more scary than some Dr. Strangelove look-alike making pronouncements from a luxury air-conditioned conference room hundreds of miles from the action.
The Greeks could simply raise the real estate taxes, dockage fees, supply costs to be so high that the new owners will regret they even heard of the Greek Islands. I'm sure the Greeks can be quite talented at collecting taxes when necessary.
you ALL go wrong.... simply because of one rule. humans, are IDIOTS.
i am, you are, on scale big enough, we all idiots, on power scale, masse is lazy and idiot, change ? of course, don't forget to record the 1st that gonna fight on his own ground risking to loose his comfy. ...better thru msm, on couch, beer handed, safer...
usa, eu, go fight outside....never gonna fix imigration from inside, why ? they vote, they are tool, just like locals.
masse and laziness and attitude about money make problem insolvable, because mass is part of the problem.
very few here get it. all those saying about greek people " say FU tu EU and leave euro and go russia " do not understand a fucking dust fuck about how the world turn, because they talk from their own field of view, they do not look global with themselve in middle of the field.
ah, you are saying the human species is a hopeless living creature. well at least for now it has adapted to survive short term. see, survival depends on passing on genes that are selective in a way to adapt to changing conditions. hmmm, seems as though those peoples are propagating in greater number and do not qualify, imho, as the true survivors of the great purge coming courtesy of the 1 percenters. hmmm (again), time will tell, mother nature is never fooled, just works on timelines that fool short sighted fools...
well at least for now it has adapted to survive short term. see, survival depends on passing on genes that are selective in a way to adapt to changing conditions.
this is true to global animal reign actally. not anylonger for humans, humans make child because of social pressure, of normality, if it was not, tell me why the fuck faggots and lesbian would want childs...
they cannot biologically by themselves...
how many people get together, fuck and by accident comes the kiddo, while they have no jobs, then go whine to get social assistance to feed the minions.......
cool.. je suis idiots
I'm good with it..
I just wish the morons in D.C. moved a couple points up to idiot.
When did ZH start picking up Mother Jones rejects?
..paging MDB.. MDB.... please pick up the white phone near the customer service station....
There are no credit cards in France.
The French have only "debt cards" which for some odd reason, they call "credit cards". If you don't have the money in your bank, then you don't have any "credit".
you should stop drinking.
credit cards like those is usa exist in france, go ask in any supermarket...
You misunderstood him. He's not saying the cards don't exist. He's saying that broke-dick motherfuckers can't legitimately claim to have any 'credit' - only debt.
Might as well take on as much debt as possible before the jubilee
Greenskeeper and No Debt, fuck all the people thatdown voted you. They are probably a bunch of old people who are part of military industrial complex or fucking old people who are collecting on the ponzi scheme known as Social Security and Medicare. The Rational solution would be to leave the Euro and create a partially gold backed currency, create a free trade zone, only run a balanced budget, less labor regulations, get rid of unions, a foreign policy that was neutral, no central banks, interest rate controlled by the market and create a tax haven away from the control of the Western Banks. Imagine all the foreign capital that would pour in after things settled down. Im sorry. That wasnt my hope for greece. That was a wet dream i had when imagining an ideal country to live in. This will never happen
Oh crap..
Yeah, they played the Euro to the max..
But you cannot blame them .. they were enticed by GS to get into the game.
So the crooked politicians at the time jumped on the opportunity.
The sheeple were happy to see the entitlements grow.
So now you have a nation, largely un-employed and not paying taxes to keep the entitlement state alive.
Well gee, what is wrong with this situation?
It’s a balance sheet thing.
The German/Belch credit mongers will not allow a nation to be free from their yoke of credit.
Opportunity makes your future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geDCtBQeN8c
(Tom Cruise launch film .. really good stuff)
Some things are just esoteric, but evil will always remain evil, it's written.
During the tech bubble meltdown I vividly remember on bubblevision a wealthy master of the universe, venture capitalist/investor type, literally yelling that the Fed needs to drop interest rates Nowwwww!! They did on the backs of savers and the elderly, to bail out the reckless ,many of them wealthy investors. The housing bubble and financial collapse followed by QE and ZIRP is the equivalent of handing money to the rich, it also props up asset prices for those who already have it, perhaps even for you Carl. The playing field needs to leveled!!!! Nowwww!!! Let Real Capitalism and price discovery happen. Not the bubblevision, Fox ,MSNBC, type of doublespeak that avoids the truth...and that the NIMBY, I got mine types parrot
'Let real capitalism happen'
What the fuck did you think I meant? There should be no fed, which I mentioned, and therefore no rigging of interest rates either. All those vultures should have lost their asses. And the 'wealthy master of the universe hardly counts as a 'one percenter', we are talking about a much more exclusive group than that, this is just stupid. And as far as leveling the playing field and all that, I agree- no more debt based fiat currency, and no more central banks who get to create unlimited amounts of it and disburse it as they see fit. To all the rest of the drive by down voters, let's hear it. Surely you have something to add other than just agreeing with this weird ass article.
Where the fuck did you read that I agreed with this article. Being opposed to socialist redistribution and being opposed to crony capitalism are not fucking mutually exclusive positions. just sayin
Actually technically you did not say that I agrred with this article, but appears to be directed at drive by down arrowers. My bad Carl, it appears we are actually philosophically/economicaly on about the same page.
Ha it's cool. Yes , it would appear so. The downvotes don't really bother me , it's just cowardly and silly to do that and not respond. why bother logging in at all if all you are going to do is click that little red arrow and not point out why exactly you disagree with something.
'Ha, I gave him a downvote.....that'll teach him not to criticize PCR or the brave Greek people!' (Gay, lispy voice...)
down votes can be given because you are so clueless and in denial about something that responding is not only in vain, but now mechanicall bad for the body and so a double whammy insues, we wont be in agreement and i now have to apply the opposite of for every action their is an equal and opposite reaction or soon my bad intentions become worse intentions and the denial of my situtation becomes deeper until i go into a drowsy sleep and all at once, CRACK, and it's over, the pain is no more.
Do not sweat the Free shit army left wing commie down voters. Plenty of trolls on ZH.
In this case the down votes are badges of honor.
Maverick
I agree about the one percenter being oversimplified, there are many in the 20 percenters and below who have benefited from the interest rate manipulation, but then act holier than thou when talking about the welfare state. The hypocricy pisses me off, OK I vented I feel better now..
Carl, I don't disagree with you in theory and the dismantling of the welfare state is a good thing in all countries but I don't think this is class warfare anymore. I know a few one percenters and they have not received their wealth by hard work, saving and building up businesses. They majority made it on stock options, hopping from one company to the next and climbing the ladder. They made their money on the backs of the lower innovative class who got the crumbs.
I have no problem with wealthy individuals but seeing people living a multimillion dollar lifestyle that had nothing productive done to attain it is disquieting. This didn't happen 30 years ago. The polarization is amazing to see now.
Miffed
I understand that, but again, the problem is debt based money, central banks, legal tender laws, and governments. The reason this didn't happen like that in the past is because we had sound money. Even if you take all the wealth from every person like you describe, it wouldn't solve the problem until you address those issues. As long as there is a tiny group of people, like, for instance, whoever it is that actually owns the federal reserve, who are able to make up as much of the currency as they want and pass it out as they see fit, this will happen
People wouldn't be getting so wealthy off of stock options if the fed hadn't lowered interest rates to nothing, letting companies borrow money at near zero to fund stock buy backs. Again, the fed, central banks, not letting free markets set interest rates.
yes.... BUT that is only half of the deal. the other half is taxes
or, more correctly, the no-taxes for the seriously rich policy. all this extreme differences were not possible with the US tax code of the 50's, for example
come on, did you already forgot that any seriously rich American pays as much taxes as his secretary?
Ya well, I don't advocate anything that gives the govt more money, so I really don't care. I'm an American, and I disagree with apart everything "my" govt spends money on. Almost all of the money given to the US govt is spent on wars I disagree with, wasteful 'defense' expenditures, welfare programs that encourage and perpetuate poverty, the war on drugs, spying on and harassing US citizens, and interest on debt I don't believe is legitimate so you'll understand when I don't cackle with glee when the government decides to take more money from people.
While there are plenty of very rich people who made their money in nefarious ways, at least they can't use it to kill people or invade them. That's more than you can say for the government.
No, they bribe politicians to get the military to invade and kill for them.
And the group we're actually talking about is the 0.01%. The nationless oligarchy, the 21st Century Pharisees.
But we don't carry any debt based money in our country, so ergo, we can't be the problem.
Agree, and know that PCR is and has been forever a tool of the international bankers- a gatekeeper- controlled opposition as it were. Same goes for Ron Paul. I know I'm pushing your buttons, but let's peel back another layer of the onion- together. Shall we?
There is no such thing as government. Period. Always and everywhere, whether Greece, Italy, Russia, China the US, doesn't matter- it's just an illusion. Don't get me wrong, the people who hold offices, high and low, are real enough, but the so-called 'power' they wield is not.
There are only bankers and the corporations they control. They are international in scope. They feel no allegiance to any people or country. They are sociopaths. I repeat, there are only bankers and the corporations. Let's call them oligarchs. Tsipras is as fine an example of wholly owned tool (still merely a psychopath, but I digress) of the oligarchy as you can find. But, I dare you to find a 'leader', anywhere in this world who is not.
You bang on about taking every penny from 'the rich' and the slothful Greeks, but you fail to see the bigger picture. The Greeks, rich and poor, are being harvested by the oligarchy. In fact, no matter where you live in the world, you too, are being harvested- by the oligarchs.
I actually it's such a simple, and diabolically evil scam, that the average mind can't comprehend it. If all currency is debt (it is), and currency 'loaned' at interest (it is), eventually even the borrower's ability to make only interest payments becomes impossible.
Albert Allen Bartlett
When it becomes impractical for the oligarchs to extract the wealth of the common man by debt/fiat/usury means, we go to war.
War allows the oligarchs to reset/restart the debt cycle while giving cover the fact that it was the actual reason for the war to begin with.
I don't think either of them are 'controlled opposition. I usually like a lot of what PCR has to say, but not this time. He typically does a better job than most at identifying and explaining what the problem or issue IS, but tends to favor solutions which inevitably involve more central planning, which, smart as he usually is, he doesn't seem to understand that it's the concentration of power that caused it in the first place. He seems to believe that, contrary to centuries of evidence to the contrary, a kind, big, controlling govt can also follow ethical standards and intelligent financial practices "if the right people are put in charge". That's where PCR and I part ways, because that govt doesn't exist.
I don't agree with RP on EVERYTHING but I'm closer with him than any other current or former politician.
EVERYTHING and EVERYONE isn't a conspiracy. Not everyone is controlled opposition. You give 'them' way to much credit.
Carl, I love ya', I really do, but denial is not a river in Egypt. Re-read what you, yourself, wrote and see how you feel compelled to defend your heroes.
Don't do that. Please.
There are only bankers and the corporations they control. They are international in scope. They feel no allegiance to any people or country. They are sociopaths. I repeat, there are only bankers and the corporations. Let's call them oligarchs.
This is probably the single most coherent description of the reality of our world today I have ever seen. My favorite way to describe them to people who don't understand all of this is to call them Pharisees. Filthy, psychopathic parasitic scumbags, and yes, they harvest the whole of the rest of humanity. They should all be rounded up and executed.
Really; people will always vote for free stuff for themselves, paid for by someone else.
Yeah, take 100% of every Rich Person's $$$$$ and it would last less than one year.
But these people are like the Terminator, they can’t be reasoned with. They have no minds only the Progressive Collective.
right on, Carl. Your -10 downvotes (and counting) shows how many gd socialists there are these days on this site.
Manufactured socialism to create Stockholm syndrome gets votes.
Tact (n): The ability to tell a man to go fuck himself without him realizing it.
You're good.
An alternative view might be that there is so much hate for the banking establishment, the some are willing to overlook that the Greeks are complicit in a sense. Banksters are evil, but free shit armies are only a few steps behind in encouraging social destruction. When posters throw the words "Greek" or "Greece" around, I often don't discern any thoughtful differentiation between the Greek gov and Greek people. I would venture that the "average" Greek is no wiser to engineered decline that the politicians have wrought upon them then is the average USSA citizen.
No excuses, people should educate themselves, but the free shit army is just as strong in many other countries, but has not hit the flash point yet.
In the first paragraph, he says "the social welfare system ... will be dismantled". But in paragraph 2 he says "the One Percent’s looting of the Greek people of the advances in social welfare". So I don't think he's talking about welfare (free handouts) as much as the well-being (welfare) of the general populace - the non-1%'ers as he refers to them.
Furthermore when he talks about the 1% I think that's just a short-hand way to refer to the financial elite who are buying Greek assets at bargain prices - whether that's the 1% or the 0.001%. The tie-in to Central Banks is that the financial elite have access to nearly zero interest rate money with which to buy Greek assets.
^1100
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/26112-an-economic-hit-man-speaks-out-...
"the problem is, again, a debt based form of money and the bankers who can create unlimited amounts of it out of thin air. "
Remind us, friend Carl, who benefits from this? The private owners of the banks and their buddies (ie. the 1%).
"..But the real problem with the public sector is the tiny elite of business people who live off the Greek state while passing themselves off as “entrepreneurs.” They bribe politicians to get fat government contracts, usually at inflated prices. They also own many of the country’s media outlets, and thus manage to ensure that their actions are clothed in silence. Sometimes they’ll even buy a soccer team in order to drum up popular support and shield their crimes behind popular protection, as the drug lord Pablo Escobar did in Colombia, and as the paramilitary leader Arkan did in Serbia."
Greece’s Rotten Oligarchy
Same as everywhere, the parasites at the top, are sucking the economy dry.
The ultimate redistributionist.
The New World Order is one of entitlement I suppose. Politicians promises will be the end of all of us. These assholes have always known that the promises they were making would unravel with time and now they are using it as a means of division, a weapon to justify theft in the name of social justice...justice as they define it in their utopian collectivist dream world.
The message from the collapse of Syrza is that other people's money eventually run out and so does their patience.
"To this day Westerners do not understand why Pol Pot emptied Cambodia’s urban areas. The West dismisses Pol Pot as a psychopath and mass murderer, a psychiatric case, but Pol Pot was simply acting on the supposition that if he permitted representatives of the old order to remain his revolution would be overthrown."
We Westerners who were there when this went down understood clearly.
A French-Cambodian named Lon Sidith, a friend and business associate in film production (and official of the Cambodian Film Festival back in the 70's) obtained a visa to come to Bangkok where we met him at our offices. We pleaded with him not to return as he was sure to be killed.
His Nationalistic feelings were that he and his family were part of the bedrock of Cambodia and had no fear. He returned and the last message recieved was that he and his family were given orders to leave their estate in Phnom Penh and go to the country. He and his family - a most sweet wife, daughters including a babe in arms and son were never heard from again. He could not believe it could happen. Most of us had been in SE Asia for over a decade and did along with some understanding of history. RIP Lon to you and your family - your bones may well have been displayed on the Internet.
I have the written story of a family's escape from Cambodia. My parents sponsered the uncle of a kid that my mom knew way back when to get over here, and my mother convinced them to put their story on paper. It wasn't just the Khmer Rouge fucking people over. Families would give all of their money to be smuggled out of Cambodia to people from surrounding nations, only to be dropped off in a mine field. Men wonen and children. It's been long enough since I've read it that I dare not give details, but I will say that it's enough to make you go <.<.....>.> WHAT THE FUCK?
My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do... www.earnmore9.com
Eat a bag of dicks.
With hot sauce!
Tyler would you please take this spammer and "relegate" him to the porcelain filing cabinet. [eg; shitter]
Certainly would be nicer if Tyler deleted real spam instead of ZHer comments.
Is it just me or did that article get weirder as it went on?
The true believers are just freaking out with the sudden discovery that it is all a sham, that they may not be able to steal enough to sustain their entitlement expectations.
No, the article is an inarticulate mess. Any article about economics that fails to make personal responsiblity and major issue and virtue is a major fail. Depend on the state and debt and you a always a slave. Develop the work ethic and no whining spirit and you are free. Quit whining and get to work is the best response to socialists, statists and collectivists (yes, they all the same set) always demanding something for nothing because "fairness". What a load of crap in this article! I doubt whether the author has any worthwhile abilities or skills.
modern neo-leftism is... dazzling, and confusing. by design. this author, for example, looks like he is calling it's death on the road, but looking around, even here on ZH, I see it alive and kicking
one of the biggest problem in grappling with neo-leftism is imho the typical stance of the UK/US "bourgeoisie", which has drunk too much "anti-socialism" in the last 70 years
and that one goes like this: "Rah, rah, socialism is bad, rah, rah" and... period. several ZH commenters are splendid examples for that
socialism is equalism. a minimum of positive equalism is, for example, the simple policy of: "everybody is equal in front of the law"
compare that with the quip that being a billionaire gives you one free "out of prison" card, in the US, which is "negative equalism"
there is a simple and effective way to deal with all leftist ideas, old and new. first, listen. then, sympathize. and third, ask the bs-cutting question: "how much?"
math is the bane of excessive equalism, as in Maggie Tatcher's quip: "socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money"
on the other side, not listening, not sympathizing and not engaging critically the left is a bad, bad idea, a good way to run around blind to the hurts of the world
Therein lies the rub Ghordius. Everybody is not equal in any form of government or ism. Money buys access to politicians and the courts.
PCR occasionally runs off the rails.
He's not even close to the rails on this one.
His dog must have wrote it.
There are no patriots in Greece; their are no dead bankers.
Fair argument...
Kinda gettin' tired of the mindless, hackneyed references to "one percenters.'
Agreed. The club is a lot more exclusive than that.
Yep. Central banks and debt based money. And legal tender laws. Until those things are gone, nothing will get better no matter how much of 'the one percents' property a government steals and redistributes.
In our global society, 99% of "the one-percenters" are on the hit-list just like the overall 99%. Their votes don't count. They pay taxes. They're in debt. Just because they have a higher standard of living does not necessarily mean they are maliciously exploiting their fellow man.
To earn yourself the title of being part of the 1% of our global population you need to earn approx. USD 35k p.a. (Yes, cost of living must be considered...but how one spends/ wastes their income is their choice).
It would be interesting to know how many critics of the "1%" are in fact well entrenched within that club on a global level and little more than supercilious hypocrites.
The 0.01% (750,000 elites)...and the 0.0001% (7,500 ultra elites)...is where the attention needs to be focussed. It's their votes that count. It's them who don't contribute, but take. It's them who maliciously earn from the debt servitude of others.
By neocons, the chosen ones, and one percenters i can conclude he is ref! To jews. 100%.
Post-collapse, and any diaspora, they become ghost-towns and you never hear about them again (as they were failed experiments).
US has many ghost-towns and abandoned regions.
What about Detroit ?
What about Cyprus ?
Next Greece ?
Ringfenced.
When things get bad, and fiat runs out, and there is no reason to stay, we leave.
The whole world will be a ghost town. That's kind of the plan - slowly, then rapidly declining conditions of life, leading to shitholes everywhere.
Until they become gentrified, down the road. I don't know about Detroit however..
The entire system is fucking sickening, it's pathetic. Fuck the globalists, financiers and the -1%. Fuck YOU!
According to PCR 'elites' seem to be 'lenders'...you know...the ones who want their money back.
Socialism will die not because 'elites' kill it but because no society to date has adequately funded the glorious welfare state it promises. There is no grand conspiracy to kill socialism...it's death will be suicide. Everyone wants free shit but no one has figured a way to get it without killing productivity.
The Greeks would be fine if they accepted a life style they could afford...but no...they want a European lifestyle and budget but can't support it with a third world farming society.
I agree with most of your post except the 'lenders who want their money back' part. This isn't really money. They didn't lend them a pallet full of gold bars, we are talking about digital fiat currency created from nothing from a central bank, then loaned at interest.
Only part right. The money originally is savings. Only with default does the central bank then buy the defaulting debt for cash. Yes the CB is eliminating bankruptcy which should happen. I agree this is against the 'rules'. If the CBs did not do this their heads would roll.
In a purely fiat system the deflation which should occur (and the huge loss of savers savings) can be prevented by central bank intervention. Since it can be done, politics demands that it is done.
We see this as the banks being bailed out and the bankers making huge bonuses. The savers (and all those pension funds of soooo many voters) see it as the central banks saving the day.
I'm not insisting it is right and it is definitely not capitalism. I'm just noting another way of viewing what is happening.
The world'sdebt will soon collapse the entire monetary system. It will be more palatable to have a nice hyperinflationary collapse that is inevitable that a messy deflation that everyone knows can be prevented just by printing a 'little' more money.
What comes next ..we'll see. Likely another round of bad money...it has happened following many hyperinflationary collapses. After that hopefully we have a system that can allow savers to save without exposure to central bank actions.
Gold can function well in such a system.
The under-class in the London area are being shipped out to the sticks ( cleansing ) and just today Cameron has set up a special force to discuss the dismantling of the Health Service.
Fuck the EU/UK
"All hail the omnipotent Wall Street" would appear.
Attacks, Wars, Depressions...like an unstoppable BEHEMOUTH...
THE BLOB!
And now....you have the Opportunity to Elect One of Them as "Your Leader."
PREPARE THE GRECIAN FORMULA!
THE MAN AT THE EPICENTER OF THE ANTI-CHRIST WANTS IN!
Just think of when the scientist finally create a nano-machine capable of re-creating itself at the atomic level and the planet and everything on it slowly turns to grey goo.
How about a little levity? At least it mentions a Greek, sort of, in being largely OT.
The King sat upon his throne in the great hall. He turned and spoke to the Royal Chamberlain:
“Where is the Queen?” he asked.
“She’s in bed with laryngitis Your Majesty,” replied the Chamberlain.
“What!?” cried the King. “Is that Greek sonofabitch still here?”
“Oh, fuck the Queen,” muttered the King. 500 loyal knights stampeded for the Queen’s bedchamber, for in those days the King’s word was law.
Shortly thereafter a breathless guardsman rushed into the great hall:
“Your Majesty, we’ve been invaded! Barbarians have crossed the border and are attacking our villages and looting our banks and raping our women!!”
“Oh shit!” cried the King. 500 exhausted knights stooped and strained, for in those days the King’s word was law.
Maybe you can find a useful analogy in there somewhere. Or not. Cheers.
People have choices, they just don't like them. The Greeks knew what the fuck they were doing. They knew they were acquiring massive debts to keep their socialist schemes afloat. And yes, the bankers saw their opportunity and took it, just like they have done with ever subprime home and auto loan. But now we see these same folks in the street, demanding that their promises be made whole. How are Americans going to react when boomers are out in the streets demanding their promises be made whole????
I sense a different tune coming on. I think there will be many here thinking of firing up the Soylent factories to remedy our "socialist" problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Card_%28The_New_Twilight_Zone%29
euro's cloward- pliven plan.
I have said this since the early 90's, "We have seen and experienced a revoultion from above, a top down revolution. A revolution of the elites against civil society and working people in industry and small business. The 1% revolted, fed up with too much income distribution to the masses."
Since then, I have watched the revolution steam roller everybody and everything before it. With the willing votes of the majority. Mass Corparate Media was the propaganda arm of the 1% revolution, they convinced the majority that the elites were job creators, and that the voter himself was likley guilty of being a "taker". Wage earners were made guility for earning too much, middle class actually was convinced that THEY were America's problem. Media sold the idea that if only the 1% and their corporations were tax free, the wealth would trickle down to us, so we voted for it.
PCR is correct, the 1% are now coming for the spoils of their successful revolution, and their media still does such a good job that many people believe this is the way it should be. To the weak minded middle, the 1% has heaped on the propaganda, flowing out of FOX news like an ocean of blather. Yet, the minimum wage fools tune it in and buy into the shit they are sold by the successful 1%'ers.
Don't look to me for solutions. As long as the 99% are so weak minded as to listen to the line up at FOX, to support the banks, the wars, the fake conservatives of congress. Well, we deserve everything we are gonna get. I ask you, look at your Republican congressmen and senators, McCain and his ilk. They are fake conservatives, they would have been thrown out of the Republican party in 1950! Yet with the modern liar media, they are successfully sold to us as stable conservative patriots. When they are crony banker whores and slaves to zionism.
Conservatism is not compatible with modern government. Democrats and Republicans want to rule us. They may start off idealistic but by the time they reach real power they see us as sheep to either be sheared or corraled. Their power is dependent upon our dependence on them and that is NOT going to come from the public's self reliance and general well-being. Conservatives do not seek to rule nearly as much as to disassemble the powers that be, and that will not be allowed. Our crop of leaders are not hypocrites, they are politicians. It's their job to lie to us, to tell us what we want to hear and it takes two parties because we are a diverse nation, we need a place to go for those of varying opinions, or at least enough of them to constitute a "democracy".
... they see us as sheep to either be sheared or corralled. True enough. But as they say, you can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin it once. They are now in the process of having to skin the sheep to get their perceived full measure. That tactic works for only so long. Even sheep rebel at some point. Got gold?
"Conservatism is not compatible with modern government"
sorry, no offense meant, but in my opinion it's utter bullshit
first, you don't mean conservativism in it's classic form. you mean liberal conservativism in it's typical US (and in part UK) form
which has two faces: on the "positive" side, it's a conservativism that has already made it's peace with most liberal demands, particularly neo-liberal demands
on the "negative" side, it's a conservativism that has given in to neo-conservative demands, all around the MIC and the various interests around the world, including Israel
you have a frigging two-party system, in the same way as China has a frigging one-party system, remember?
and so you have one party that has a conservative and a liberal wing, and the other has a liberal and a social wing. so liberal-conservative vs social-liberal
the first is beholden to neo-cons that glorify violence, fear and discrimination, the second is beholden to neo-liberals that glorify "whatever goes" and megabiz feudalism
the first has huge corruption issues around clientelism for the wealthy, the second has huge corruption issues around clientelism for the poor
take Otto von Bismarck. now, that guy was a classic 19thC conservative, but read in the US blogs, and it will be painstakingly explained to you that he was a socialist, one of the biggest jokes evah
you don't actually know what conservativism is, and that's nothing it should astonish us, then lots of money was spent to make sure you would not know
Juggling the #'s will get you no where.
No insult intended but I think you are making my point.
The conservatism of which I refer does not currently exist in government. It can't as it demands a smaller government....which will not happen. It can't exist in its pure form for the same reason socialism or communism cannot exist for any sustained period of time. Conservatism does not support an expansive government, which as we see is not sustainable as government grows like a virus. Collectivist systems suffer in similar ways where they are dependent upon redistribution, which in its conceptual level is possible to work as long as it is voluntary, but as we see, soon becomes compulsory and eventually corrupt and self destructive. The problem is human nature which will seek to find any lever of power and corrupt it. Our democrat versus republican circus uses the "ism" labels much in the same way we use "redskins" and "cowboys" to define basically undifferentiable organizations of thugs who battle each other in the colosseum, yet have radicalized "fans" offering support.
I see myself as a conservative and accept that it will not exist in its conceptual form, but its basic tenants are still worth pursuing. The leftists will despise my love of a strong military of defensive purpose yet they will not hesitate to use its power in interventionist purposes to advance its agenda. Leftists will also express hate of my love of commerce and trade that creates and distributes wealth unequally, yet readily embrace the taking of that wealth to advance their agenda. This constant disparagement of wealth but ease of its consumption should lead anyone to see its failure, but evidently not, as the Greeks will tell us.
You may be right that I do not know what conservatism is if it is to be judged by what those who claim to be conservative actually do. Hell, we constantly see Hitler referred to as a conservative, even when he calls himself a social democrat. It is amazing to watch leftist trying to shed their attributes by calling their atrocities "conservative". Neocons are not conservative, they simply attach themselves to 'conservative' like a leach to sap it power for their own use. neocons want to own and control the strong military that conservatives will support.
Everyone knows what they believe and those who struggle to find voice for it will look for common labels and organizations they believe best speaks for them, but ALL organizations do not seek to speak for us, they seek power to advance their agenda using our weight to propel them.
+1, splendid comment, Oldwood
one small qualm: small government is actually a classical liberal demand. balanced budgets, a classical conservative demand
Yes but, after the default their will be such things as truth in gvt, truth in design, truth in advertizing, and once proved guilty of this crime there will be no coming back at the tax payers expense, they will have to live entirely different lives, and that's where the resistance to reforms are, that and pure denial.
Remind me Jack which social programs were started by the republican party? Social Security, food stamps, medicare, medicaid, obamacare etc. Which party started the Dept of energy, Dept of Education etc. Can you name even one social welfare program not started by the democrats? Didn't think so, so stop blaming the conservatives even the faux ones who didn't vote for a single one of those programs.
Buy a neuron and make a synapse before you comment again!
the GOP lined up in lockstep to support Obamas TPP, that they knew nothing about traitors
Of course, technically you are correct. People are too lazy to accept their political responsibilities - to get informed and stay informed and make thoughtful voting decisions. Of course you can look at it another way as well. Why are these folks uniformed? Could it be that they have families to look after? That they work long hours and sometimes have to take on more than one job to make ends meet? Could it be that husband and wife both have to work and come home late to make dinner, clean up and spend some litle time with the kids? Are they to be blamed for wanting to relax a bit after the kids are in bed?
In today's world it takes a lot of time and work to get informed and to educate oneself on how the system works - both politically and financially. As they grew up, they probably didn't receive much education regarding financial management or planning or about the Constitution and how government works. (BTW just where is Ukraine? In the Midwest? How come Russia is invading our Midwest?) All their friends were encouraged by a consumer society (built by the 1%) to spend their time buying things or enjoying social media. Intellectual pursuits were not looked on with favour - geeks were to be shunned. Sports and entertainment ruled. What little news to be heard or viewed was most easily obtained through the TV - but that news was filtered by the 1% who owned the TV channel and was meant more for entertainment than to be newsworthy.
So where is the foundation upon which to 'get informed and stay informed' for these 99%? It doesn't exist. Never did. Just as their so-called democracy does not exist - and never did. It is all a Matrix and most of us have never even been given the opportunity to choose a pill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt-udg9zQSE
Few cared about the Zimbabwe live-test-study. Few cared about the Cyprus live-test-study, Few cared about going-live in Greece. Few will care when they come to your country, anywhere in the world. That's what THEY counted on.
Not sure what to say to the notion the 1% is looting Greece. Debt=slavery. Don't borrow money unless you want to become a slave to the person/organization you are borrowing from. Did Greece really think there is such a thing as a free lunch?
Yes, they did. Goldman Sachs said they could pay next Friday for a cheeseburger today.
Yes and they still do.
You talk as if the Greek people had a say in the matter. They didn't. So where does that leave your proposition? You saw a clear demonstration of what the Greek people are up against this past week. In spite of voting No on an issue, they were completely ignored. Same was true when a corrupt set of Greek politicans took out state loans from a corrupt set of international bankers and by 2010 it was clear the Greek government would need to declare bankruptcy on that debt, negotiate it with their creditors and let the loaning banks carry the responsibility for the risk they had assumed in the first place. That didn't happen. Merkel stepped in and saved the banks before the Greek government could settle the issue with them. Merkel thus caused the people of Germany and Europe to take on the Greek risk. As there are no real lawful ways to make debt adjustments in the Eurozone, the people of Greece (and the European taxpayers) were left holding the bag - a bag they did not ask for.
The bankers, however, are well pleased with the ressults and are looking forward to the fire sale they planned from the beginning.
Everyone is individually shitting in the streets yet is shocked and surprised to discover they have a public health problem.
You are seriously going to claim that greeks did not know they were running massive deficits, that they had no idea that they had massive government employment and entitlement expenditures? And they had no idea, completely unaware that they were massively dodging taxes that they ALL publicly supported (obviously in the belief that taxes were all paid by other people)?
Something about "ignorance is no defense in the eyes of the law" and I would add...natural law. Sadly this is not a Greek problem but a human problem as we see sovereign financials collapse while none of us had any idea....
The fish doesn't know it swims in water until the water is gone.
-Sum Ting Wong-
I do see your point about what went down this last week and how the people voted one way and the politicians ignored them It's very frustrating but we really need to look at the decades of history where the politicians did exactly what they said they would do-increase the welfare state and borrowing money they can't pay back as the cause of all this. Billions of debt got built up over decades not what happneded over the past few days/weeks and even if politicans voted for what the people wanted this last week, the consequences of the decades of the welfare state would still be there stairing them in the face. The Greek people elected representatives that decided to take out such a staggering amount of loans. One party wanted more loans and one party wanted less loans but both wanted to borrow money they didn't have. To make matters worse, more often than not the Greek people voted socialist and thus decided to borrow more money instead of borrowing less money. They voted for a lifestyle they could not afford. Reality catches up to everyone eventually.
That's a little superficial. Do Americans think we have a "free lunch" coming thanks to our $18 trillion unpayable debt? I suggest they do not.
No matter where you go today, you hear people bemoaning this behemoth debt and the fear of what is to come.
This is simply a case of getting people dependent on the system of welfare worldwide and then cutting them off. Because they're now dependent on the welfare system by shutting that down you then have the excuse for mass murder to "balance the budget" by getting rid of all these "useless eaters". Hence another plank of the New World Order is being laid, slowly and cruelly but surely: population control. I've said for a few years now that eventually politicians will advocate culling the population "for the good of the country" and "to balance the books". Looks like it'll come sooner rather than later.
No real argument except that the 1% meme is far from accurate. The people who have really benefitted are 1/10,000 or 0.01%. I suppose I am at the bottom of the 1% or at least in the top 2% and my life is radically worse than it was 30 years ago. I am working harder and longer for 25% of my youthful buying power and have much less freedom. Not to mention near zero income from my life savings so retirement at the traditional age is a lost cause.
Yeah the only real hope at this point is a PM bet on central banker eventual failure. Pretty grim future no matter how it turns out.
IMHO a good rule of thumb as to a person belongs to the financial elite (aka "0.01%" is whether or not they have a family office.
The mere "1%" includes many on this board, possibly even me.
+1, the difference is always about income or wealth
every eighth American is once in his life among the 1% in income, for example
with wealth, though, it's a different plane, and a different math
Pareto is still right. the lowest wealth class is the 80%, who typically own 20% of all wealth
the next class is the 16%, the next the 3%, the next the 0.8%, and then you have the "oligarchs"
it's a "power law curve", and each class has roughly the same share, but with increasingly less participants
check on the Athenian Constitution that Solon made, and you'll see the pattern of the "five classes of wealth". note, though, that Solon asked the top class to deliver the leaders and the taxes, and the social spending, and the military spending, and the generals and admirals, with decreasing influence and "stake" the lower it went
For me it is not about how much you earn or how much you own. it is about how you earn and what you do with your wealth.
We have a taxing system that lumps those who will work three jobs to acquire wealth in the same group as one who won it at the craps table or stole it. A society's prosperity is ultimately determined by what it incentivizes and inhibits or punishes. Penalizing income, regardless of its source is a brutal club that can only incentivize theft and high stakes poker. I believe in self directed protectionism, not just in international trade but domestic as well. If we are not to consider the source of our income or how we spend it, we are doomed. If we are not willing to recognize that the lowest price is not always the best deal, that we need jobs to prosper and that if we do not seek our own protection rather than a collective protection we are screwed.
It is easy, actually the easiest, to imagine a law or policy that would effect each of our ideas of perfection in any system. The problem always is that those who would enforce our perfection are not perfect and will ultimately pervert our intentions to advance their own agendas. Our only solution is for each of us to act in our own best interests, while also understanding that none of us is an island, that our world and our society is part of us. We can all understand the necessity of justice, not for some magical tally sheet in the sky, but because a just society perpetuates prosperity and sustainability.But we insist on empowering others to arbitrate this justice and they ultimately rule over us.
We can make these choices. We can decide if we want to buy from local producers or those in China. We can decide if we want to pay the neighbor kid to mow our yard or hire an illegal. We can make lots of choices that can have real effect in our lives, but instead too many choose poorly and then blame those who made the poor choices available and easy. Screaming at our parents, blaming them for spoiling us. We are all busily typing away on Chinese made smart phones, tablets and computers while lamenting the lack of jobs. You cannot convince me that most people do not understand what this means yet they will scream that it matters not....and most definitely NOT their fault.
Well, we then must just shake our fists at an unjust god while we sink below the waves. we are all innocents, right?
Just wait until social security becomes worthless via stealth (government fudged) inflation.
That's about the most fucking whining I've seen in a single article.
Truly happy your comment was short.
please go to bloomberg. theyve go a mass of success articles of how good the new apple products are and how nice, the apple ceo is gay. and may you should become gay too and dont forget to go long on dow, s&p and nasdaq and buy all of the apple products
it will be on your level
There is no left wing and right wing. It's an artifical construct. Both are vehicles for a tiny "elite" to end up owning everything and everyone else owning nothing. That's game. A giant world-wide company town. Debt is the tool, the bounds by which the company town enslaves people.
The 'left wing' creates the debt through welfare, the 'right wing' sells off the assets at pennies on the dollar. If that doesn't work reverse it. The right wing creates the debt through war and the left wing sells off the assets at pennies on the dollar.
the left like to 'tax and spend' the right likes to 'borrow and spend'---from the Federal Reserve, who cater to the 1%, and they leave the IOU to the American taxpayer
Agreed. I continue to go back to the only solution I suspect can work: Starve the Beast.
If only folks would think before they purchase (including the necessities of life) then we could collectively bring this monster to its knees. Yet, the big boys keep churning the customers (serf taxpayer) for reasons unknown.
From the NFL, NBA and MLB to Wal Mart, Budweiser and Miller. From Amazon to Google to GM, etc. We have more alternatives to consumerism (aka serf taxpayer) than we care to seek out.
Disable the major conglomerates through spending and you will have done more to save America than all the schemes and analysis money can buy.
The 1 percenters are the chief bond holders. Who gets to hold bonds and other debt instruments at the moment of hypothecation?
If you guessed private bankers the you win a prize! OK no real prize... it is the thought that counts.
Credit as money is created at the moment a loan is made, and the debt instrument is either held by finance or on sold into markets. There are serious problems with this scheme, all of which are manifesting today.
Now the bond holders, the one percenters, the owners of private capital are going after inelastic markets. What PCR refers to as patrimony should not be privatized under any circumstances.
"The protected Greek islands, ports, water companies, airports, the entire panoply of national patrimony, is to be sold to the One Percent. At bargain prices, of course, but the subsequent water bills will not be bargains."
Nobody should argue against the logic of PCR here. Inelastic markets become high cost if they are monopolized and tolled in order to take rents for Oligarchy.
The proper money system is to intermediate existing funds at banks. This is wealth money that represents existing productivity.
Canada ran a sovereign system from 38 to 74 with intermediated money (people loan their savings to their neighbors). Canada also limited their private banks to 4 year loans at 6 percent, thus the debts could not double with usury. During this period there was full employment, free medical, free college, land reform, world beating industry. They built a continental railroad, interstate highways, waterways almost equal to panama canal, etc. Oh, and low to no national debt. All of this happened without creating oligarchy.
Here is Keen with new models. They days of private credit hosting countries is coming to an end. Computer models are getting more sophisticated and backing up empirical knowledge as demonstrated by monetary history.
http://www.debunkingeconomics.com/krugman-v-keen-battle-of-the-models-ii/
Ironically, neoclassical economists assume incorrectly that banks have loanable funds, meaning they intermediate somebody's savings to then make loans. The dynamic models show that a intermediated money system goes into equilibrium. However, the actual fact of the matter is that banks hypothecate new credit, and this kind of money has an accounting periodicity and vectoring problem that cannot be overcome. Private bank credit is unstable and it does harvest during disequilibrium phase.
Credit can be useful as a drain knob, and to counter spend in a disaster, but it should not be privately sourced in order to take rents on the commons. In my view some credit is ok, but no more than 30 percent of the supply.
State Banks hold debt instruments on the people, so that solution is not ideal. In the case of Canada it was a Crown Bank, who issued debt free money.
Yours has been the best post so far MEFOBILLS. That statist socialist prick, Pierre Trudeau, changed the banking system.
While admittedly I lack your grasp of financialization, are we to always assume that people are to be held harmless due to ignorance or indifference? I mean how many people have knowingly overextended themselves financially and then turn around condemning those who loaned them money as corrupt? It seems we will always have those who seek to profit from others ignorance, regardless of the perfections of our economic or banking systems. Yes, we should not make it easy and work to punish fraud but we must also hold people accountable for their actions.
I guess that all depends upon the "caste" you were born into. That's essentially what we have in America today: a new caste system. It's not acknowledged but it's there. It exists.
Individuals and countries overextend themselves. When a "bailout" becomes necessary, I submit that we already know who gets bailed out and who doesn't. The caste system extends to sovereign nations as well.
Wonder... I wrote something yesterday about how free land, limited Labor Force, and other factors led to a Middle Class.
"With no more free Land, Open Borders, Open Migration, and Free Trade with the British Economic Model, Monopoly Powers by the Transnational Corporations, there is no chance for a new Middle Class... Today (in Greece) they don't even have Credit Cards or Business Trade since the Credit has Collapsed."
MEFOBILLS:
"Canada also limited their private banks to 4 year loans at 6 percent, thus the debts could not double with usury."
- Well 4 years might be a little short in time for a realistic loan payback unless you have free land... or have an important good, innovative product, in a community of low technology... in a community of people with few resources and little innovation...
Yeah sure. You can have an invigorating economy... but it is not realistic.
Teeth,
In reply to your assertion, which is lacking some understanding:
Canada used something called Trusts, which collected peoples savings. Think of it like a big mutual fund of savings. It would be similar to a Savings and Loans that used to exist in the U.S.
Sorry, I don't always go into great details. This forum is not conducive to detailed analysis.
The fact of the matter is that Canada did have high investment and high productivity, and very low distortion during this period. It was actually the highest investment period in its history.
"Well 4 years might be a little short in time for a realistic loan payback unless you have free land... or have an important good, innovative product, in a community of low technology... in a community of people with few resources and little innovation...
Yeah sure. You can have an invigorating economy... but it is not realistic"
The answer: Real money was loaned, and the saver held the debt instrument. Upon payback, the real money returned to the saver. Saver's compete to loan their savings.
Banks compete against the intermediating fund operations. Private banks in canda still made Credit money, but they were in competiton and limited by law.
Plentiful land is a factor that keeps prices down due to abundant supply. However, proper economics is to tax land to keep it from being bid up. See Georgist economics.
There has to be debt free money, intermediated funds, AND RENT TAXES. Both monetary and fiscal policy are required for advanced civilization.
Imagine that if ink-jet money maker Crazy Lady owned a bank, it would be legal for her to create money that never existed before and she would be a pillar of the community.
Same concept, far different outcomes.
Any discussion of economics that doesn't address this glaring massive advantage for private parties over the public's use of a currency and that assumes that it is a natural or normal transfer mechanism is simply a waste of time.
The united states got rich using its own credit. It was called the American System. Germany also during the years leading up to WW1 issued its own industrial credit.
The notion that foreign credit must pour into a country in order to help it go is not backed up by any sound analysis. What actually happens is the country gets harvested.
Read Perkins book, Confessions of an economic hit man.
Well another risk would seem to be Foreigners buying American Debt... or any countries debt.
One better... Derivatives based out of New York City, Wall Street, could be sold as Tranches of US Debt.
Let's see if we have some Data:
Federal Debt Held by Foreign & International Investors as Percent of Gross Domestic Product
2015:Q1: 34.90530 Percent of GDP (+ see more)
Quarterly, Seasonally Adjusted, HBFIGDQ188S,
Wow, isn't that Dangerous. Look at the Slope of the Curve!! Wow.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/iip_glance.htm (wow huge trend, $31 Trillion in Foreign owned Property in USA vs $24 Trillion in US owned property in foreign countries)
Rest of the world; foreign direct investment in U.S.; asset, Level, 2014:Q4: 3,298,931.7 Millions of Dollars (+ see more), Quarterly, Not Seasonally Adjusted, ROWFDNQ027S, Updated: 2015-03-12
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/ROWFDNQ027S
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GPDIA (Gross Private Domestic Investment, $2,851.6 Billions of Dollars)
https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GPDICA (Real Gross Private Domestic Investment, $2,704.7 Billions of Chained 2009 Dollars)
Tranches and Tranches... What? And no monitor speaking to the Public??!!
There is no way out. The propaganda model has won, the 99% are willing, the slaughter can not be far. Side shows like Jade Helm send the clear message that the Federal Government is in full control, it flexes its muscle showing its clear monopoly on violence. The people have lost their political agency, the current political parties/syndicates both serve the same master, the Wall Street cabal. Elections are charades, loaded with glittering generalities, without substance they have become the whips of the propagandists to keep the public debate narrow without any real controversy. Alternative thinking sometimes suggests running away from it all which solves nothing, buying 80 acres and a few guns will do nothing but isolate you in a way that suits the government, they will drain your capital with taxes, regulate you and your business to conform, they will marginalize your politic and lay you to waste with ease just like they would with any city dweller. Consider the 'occupy movement', it was corrupted by government stooge infiltration which paralysed its decision making capability, thus making the movement weak as it became completely incapable of assertive action. The occupy movement is today now left to its only claim, that it was a strategy, which now rings hollow. I do not expect the people to rally or organize again in such away. It is easy for the government to spy and derail any grass roots movement early in the process and most of all the 99% just don't give a shit. We continue to see 20,000 to 40,000+ people attend a baseball game every other day in 30 major cities but can't get a 1000 to gather for a protest with any seriousness. There will be rallies occasionally to protest some issue, they will be contrived and controlled, they are the 'make you feel good moments' and will leave the serious issues of change unaddressed or promote the statist position. Lastly, voting in our flawed system will not produce results, it is by design, the entire process of government and the elections has been hijacked and is patently flawed. I do believe that direct democracy with a crowd sourced bill of rights is a possible future and one way that would allow us to fire the corrupt individuals who claim to represent us today. Other than that, our nation seems to be waiting for the other boot to stomp, I can only wonder what that might look like and how it will affect us.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." George Orwell
Excellent comment. Two thumbs up.
Should we hold people accountable for going out and buying buying buying houses during the property bubble? Prices were signaling that housing would go up fooooreeveer?
Or, how about during the roaring 20's. The stock market is going great guns, get in on the action. But, the action was new credit formation to then vector after an asset class, to then distort those pricing signals.
Do we blame a fish for respondig to pressure, salinity, electrical fiellds in water. Humans respond to money and pricing in the same way a fish responds to its environment.
The butcher, baker, and candlestick maker should be able to focus on their trade. They shouldn't have to worry about who has silently mounted them from behind, and this rear action is only designed to harvest and steal.
People are accountable for their actions when their information is perfect, but the information today is far from perfect - in fact it is propaganda for the most part.
The Jewish private Credit money system was started out as fraud, with intent to deceive. It is time to throw it into the ash heap of history.
sovereignmoney.eu
BUT ..... Italy, Spain and France have the "too big to fail" status bankers covet.
They can use banker blackmail to get unconditional bailouts and bonuses all round.
It is interesting to contrast how Greece is being treated for its debt of 300 – 400 billion to how the bankers were treated when they lost 6 trillion.
James Rickards in Currency Wars gives this figure (before anyone asks):
Losses from sub-prime - less than $300 billion
With derivative amplification - over $6 trillion
It is like an American Western... only the Cattle Ranchers are TBTJ Bankers on Wall Street.
Wow. Did I just say that?
The $1 Trillion in lost Interest from savings accounts is just part of the loses. Pension Funds... yeah if you didn't pull out, you made back much of your losses... but what kind of asshole in retirement leaves his money in Stocks when the Industry clearly is corrupt and Crony?? Accounting control fraud and auditors and financial ratings agencies...
You would have to be a Dick Head to Keep your money in US Stocks.
You. Dick Head. Greedy Fuck.
When Hitler killed Jews, we asked why, when they saw what was happening, they did nothing. The same will be said of us.
We shouldn't be too surprised to see the 1% building gas chambers and crematoria to remove the excess population that are a burden on their weath.
I'm done with the news. I'm buying metal lead and food until I see my neighbors freaking out.
See ya tomorrow
Dear Paul,
since when does a party matter?
..........left is dead, just as is the Democratic Party in the US......
What PROJECTION! PC Roberts defends - as poor widdle victim - the Leftist terrorists.
To hell with Leftist PARASITES.
PCR: "Without an ideology to sustain it, the European left is dead..."
I welcome this.
The problem is that when you get a socialist mindset applied to a capitalist system as we see happening across developed countries, you end up with fascism, followed by jackboots to enforce it. Mussolini's model of fascism was almost the perfect example.
"The merger of private and public sectors."
It's unavoidable because of the obsession with "control" that is an integral pillar of socialism.
That's what's happening across developed countries step-by-step. I predicted its return in the early 90s.
The obsession with control is an aspect of Modernism, and is associated with Socialism primarily due to the rise of the world's first socialist state during the 1930's, the era when Modernism was being idealized (idolized?). Socialist thinking outside of Stalinism is ambiguous regarding control when not outright hostile. Consider Proudhon, Godwin, and Bakunin.
Conversely, obsession with control is typical of Fascism and Fordism, both movements that gained their greatest popularity in the early 20th century, and most readily facilitated by the rise of computers and modern schools of business management, which were unknown to the originators of Socialism.
"The obsession with control is an aspect of Modernism"
Control was at the core of the Bolshevik Revolution. Without it, you cannot remodel society into what you want it to be. Stalin, Musso, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot all went for the same thing albeit in different ways. Stalin went for state ownership of the means of production whereas Musso & Hitler simply went for state control. Mao just slaughtered anyone who didn't look right or who wore specs.
It's generally the Musso model that's now being introduced in developed countries and this time round the money men have more power in that corporatist relationship with government, which has made .gov into little more than front men for the new fascism.
Full control invariably relegates ordinary people to powerless peons. It's usually accompanied by the ruling elites themselves living the life of Reilly which shows just how much hypocrisy is involved.
Also, as you allude, the advent of computers has allowed a huge increase in the scope and mechanisms of control by the new fascist governments, hence the NSA, GCHQ and all the rest of it.
d00d.. your an intelligent poster usually.. but think it through man.
control is NOT a unique charatceristic of the left, socialism or anything else. its simply a facet of anyone, ell, EVERYONE with the tiniest bit of power, of authority, or money. period. seeing it as left only is childish, and I know you're smarter than that.
everything we are withnessing is actually.. Rand's "Titans of industry", empowered and on steroids
the 1% unmasked and full fucking throttle. and they will take everything. all of my shit and yours. dont be deluded man.
P < P + I
There's not been a "Left" in Europe for over half a decade. All these leftist clowns do is borrow money from Banks and International financeers to pay for welfare - most of them are well rewarded after leaving office.
Half a decade? Try three decades.
So Trotsky was right, and (no surprise) Stalin was wrong. In order for revolution to succeed, it had to be WORLD revolution; leaving the counter-revolutionary nations untouched meant leaving enemies at the People's back.
Eat the rich. They're nothing but pork rolls.
In college in the late 1960’s I had an advanced history class (needed the credits). The history professor was a devote communist who decided to teach us a different view of history based on wealth creation and protection (it was his last set of classes). He filled his classes with sayings “such as rich men don’t riot” and “rebellion is a slave’s game”. He showed us how governments of all types that were controlled by the rich used a small part of tax wealth to placate the masses to keep them from rioting and overturning the government while they looted it.
His theory about America is it would take 100 years to turn us communist. When we asked why his response was “...the middle class here is still too prosperous..”. When politicians finally come along who have the guts to take your property, loot your bank accounts, strip you of your rights and make you an ordinary plebe with no hope then you will have arrived and can begin the glorious communist nation that <propaganda>..”
With the events going on today I feel we have arrived at the professor’s model of communism in America. According to him “..if the politicians rule correctly once we are all poor they can stop looting and the communist system will take over where everything will be glorious (for the 1%) … of course if they fail we will all be poor (rich men don’t riot) and the next peoples revolution will get communism correct..” Some future we have if he was correct…