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Varoufakis Slams Bailout #3 As "Greatest Macroeconomic Disaster In History" While Tsipras "Doesn't Eat Or Sleep"
In an rare convergence of Greek and German viewpoints, overnight former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis told the BBC that "economic reforms imposed on his country by creditors are "going to fail", ahead of talks on a huge bailout. At the same time, Germany's most noted Eurosceptic, Hans-Werner Sinn, in an interview with the newspaper "Passauer Neue Presse" also earlier today warned that any new aid would be "totally worthless" and "would never come back."
In what was practically a race who can find harsher terms to describe the Greek bailout, Varoufakis said that Greece was subject to a programme that will "go down in history as the greatest disaster of macroeconomic management ever".
As reported yesterday, the German parliament approved the opening of negotiations of Greece's third €86 billion bailout when it rushed to vote through a bridge loan to Greece so the insolvent nation had some funds to repay the ECB's Monday debt maturity, as well as repay the roughly €2 billion for Greece is in default to the IMF. Of note was the jump in German MPs who voted "no" to 119 from just 32 in the February vote to extend the Greek bailout.
In a damning assessment, Varoufakis told the BBC's Mark Lobel: "This programme is going to fail whoever undertakes its implementation."
Asked how long that would take, he replied: "It has failed already."
He also said Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, who has admitted that he does not believe in the bailout, had little option but to sign. "We were given a choice between being executed and capitulating. And he decided that capitulation was the ultimate strategy."
Which also happens to be Varoufakis' biggest failure: his strategy was accurate and his math was correct that to Europe a Grexit would be far more expensive than keeping Greece in the Euro, however Europe was just as accurate in realizing Greece has no Plan B for its banking system as Greece had never prepared either a plan for a parallel currency nor how to obtain Debtor in Possession funding, which is what a bankrupt Greece would need - ostensibly either from China or Russia - to fund it in the interim period in which it was ending its tumultuous relationship with Europe.
Understandably Greece did not want to push the Grexit line too hard for obvious reasons - it was all part of the "blame game" - however now that Germany itself has opened a Pandora's box it can't close ever again when it brought up the possibility of a temporary Grexit, Greece should most certainly prepare for the worst case the next time it has to rerun the entire bailout tragedy in 6-9 months, or perhaps sooner.
However, none of this will be Varoufakis' problem any more - instead we hope his successor learns from Yanis' mistakes. And speaking of his successors, late yesterday Tsipras has announced a cabinet reshuffle, sacking several ministers who voted against the reforms in parliament this week. But he opted not to bring in technocrats or opposition politicians as replacements.
As a result, it now seems that Tsipras will preside over ministers who, like himself, harbor serious doubts about the reform program. Which is why we truly hope they are prepared to implement the missing Plan B when the time comes next.
Finally, in what is perhaps the best anecdote about Greece right now, AFP reported that "embattled Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras eats and sleeps poorly and rarely manages to see his family, his mother told a tabloid on Saturday."
"Alexis lately does not eat, does not sleep, but he has no choice -- he has a debt to the people who put their faith in him," Aristi Tsipras, 73, told Parapolitika weekly.
"I rarely see him any more. He goes from the airport straight to parliament. He has no time to see his children, how can he see me?" Aristi Tsipras said.
"When we speak, I tell him to do the best for the country and take care of himself. He tells me not to worry, and that everything will be fine," she said.
Unfortunately it won't be, however that will only be revealed when not only the PM can "no longer eat or sleep", but the entire country of Greece, too.
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All a game to change money. Talk it up. Talk it down.
"the greatest macroeconomic disaster in history"
While I dont disagree, its cute to hear that from a socialist. This guy is a complete fuckstick. All he wants to do is borrow more money, forever, to fund a hopelessly bankrupt and corrupt welfare state. Even if you wrote off ALL of greece's debt, leaving them with ZERO interest payments, they STILL counldn't fund their massive, bloated govt and welfare state without borrowing more money. Complete debt forgiveness, theyd be right back in this situation a few years down the road. The reason for that is socialist dickheads like varoufakis that the greeks keep electing, and for some reason ZH keeps praising.
The only praise this guy deserves is if his or syriza's socialist BS ACCIDENTALLY causes the collapse of the euro.
+1 for connecting fuckstick and socialist. Well played sir.
Greece Coerced Into Bad Deal, Tsirpas Had No Choice With Banks Shut
Voura Fuckis is a fucking fraud....
All Vourafuckis fanboyz can begin down arrowing, AFTER you've read this:
http://journal-neo.org/2015/07/03/what-stinks-about-varoufakis-and-the-w...
The two of them are trying to create an image that they are not responsible. They masters they serve also want them to remain politically active so they can serve them futher.
They set the greek people up, ignored the vote of the greek people and will be given places at the table as greece is devoured.
But then most of the greek parliament is owned by the same masters it seem as they also voted for this. Yanis voted against because his vote was not needed and it kept him in the political game as the "rebel".
Stylin' Yanis who made zero, zero, ZERO preparations for a new currency while negotiating with the EU to leave the Euro and issue a new currency - after announcing he was using Game Theory methods.
Every lamp post he passes must give him the creeps:
"... So the first rather chilling thing I’ve learned, from well-placed bankers, is there have been no conversations between the Bank of Greece, the government or regulators and Greece’s commercial banks about the technicalities of leaving the euro and adopting a new currency.
This is astonishing – and some would say pretty close to criminal – given that on Wednesday night the president of the European Union, former Polish prime minister Donald Tusk, was explicit that this weekend’s negotiations were all about whether Greece would stay in the eurozone. ..."
Read more: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/greece-has-made-no-preparation-for-a-grexit.html
Prime candidate for a suicide.
If it is really true that Yanis "I'm supposed to be smarter than the average bear" Varoufakis made NO preparations at all for potentially dumping the Euro and/or reintroducing the drachma, then his "I'm a Game Theory Grandmaster" schtick is even more pathetic than I thought it was.
Just what kind of game theory was he implementing? Chutes and Ladders? Gin Rummy? I Spy?
First rule of using game theory is to NOT talk about using game theory.
"Varoufakis is a hero..."
Why? For revealing just how incompetent he is?
I did not realize Varoufakis had been made the King of Greece or had seized control of Greece via a military coup and had the power to make unilateral decisions. Do you watch a lot of FOX news or something??? Thats a ridiculous reach to contend he had that kind of political control. Maybe I missed something, or did not the Greek parliment fold and accept the bailout/austerity package instead of Grexit??
Varoufakis, like Tsiipras, is the oligarchs' tool.
Now it's visible.
Now they've got a problem.
Now they can't stop talking.
There is an old saying from an old book called the Bible which says in Psalms 146 vs 3
New Living translation
Don’t put your confidence in powerful people;there is no help for you there.
When everyone realizes the truth of that verse things would different
but in the meantime there is no rest for the wicked
Tsiparis needs to get the fuck out. If he can't do what's right, he shouldn't be there.
It's a show.
He's traking Greece down for his masters and real associates.
Let me tell you people something. Greece ain't going nowhere. Get that through you little birdbrains. Put it in your pipes and smoke it.
Well the good news is that is still summer in Greece,, you can sleep outside and dumpster dive all you want… the German tourists leave lots of food on the plate.
oh gee....shocker
Let's go to music...
ORI blazes the blues...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxkHQXb5nDc
Dig it...
Cheers Vullsain, thanks....
Yup. The zero preparations for a return to the drachma is very telling. I'd go so far as to say this very evident omission, as far as getting his ducks in a row, doubtless made it clear to the EU that there was no actual intention of defaulting. (Should have made it clear to anyone else who was paying attention, too.)
The new Greek currency should have been printed, minted, and stacked up somewhere ready to go.
Now, I don't know much about this type of thing, but if it was me I would have simply declared all the closed banks insolvent and permanently shut them down--and I would have had a plan in place to open new banks to take their place. All the monies destined for civil servants and pensioners would have been deposited by the government in these new banks, in drachmas.
(The people would doubtless have been pissed that the drachma wouldn't be worth as much, but austerity comes to the same thing, after all.)
So where indeed were these essential preparations?
Everyone seems to assume there was a need for a 'new' currency.
There was not. Greece already has its own currency - the Y prefix Euro (and they have the printing presses to ensure a supply of local notes)
The Y prefix Euro has a problem in that it is currently part of the EuroZone fixed Exchang Rate Mechanism.... IE. 1:1 with all the other Euro currencies.
In addition, Greece has surrendered control of its central bank and its local banks are bankrupts.
So, if they Grexit, they just:
All the infrastructure to use Y-Euros is already up and running.
This can be done with zero lead time, and is the stealth way to implement (resume control of) their currency.
The day to day impact on Greek people would be close to zero, except for the predictable devaluation of the Y-Euro relative to other Euros and other currencies.
The key advantage of this stealth approach is the way it avoids all the startup hassle of setting up a new currency style.
@JustUsChickensHere:
"Greece already has its own currency - the Y prefix Euro (and they have the printing presses to ensure a supply of local notes)...
So, if they Grexit, they just: Declare that the exchange rate for Y-Euro's is now a floating rate against other Euros; Print any extra Y-Euro notes they need locally..."
By the way, do you think it's "Y" for Yanis?
If you live in Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Spain or France it could be worth starting to collect some German "X" prefix Euros ;-)
I agree with a lot of your thoughts , bloofer, but
I got a few points to make on the process thing.
I think, as a small country, Gr was trying to
bring the system to see that this austerity
was murderous, but the troika doesn't care.
They were trying to stay within the system
and get a better deal, because they're a small
country, but that was impossible. So, they did the
next best thing in pissing off the governments and
publics of all those countries who think they're paying
for Greeks to enjoy life in a sunny country (with more than
a bit of jealousy there).
Greece is being bled dry,
so there's no money for even thinking about a
drachma, let alone for printing (in secret).
A disorderly default, in diplomatic terms, is an
aggressive act, so they were trying to avoid it.
A few more years, and there will be a party
that will promise and deliver default. The drachma
and default are the only real solution.
To close your banks and central bank and nationalise
them is also an aggressive, communist, act, when Gr has all its
powerful oligarchy (with media) and bureaucracy stacked against Syriza.
Lapavitsas wanted to do it, two weeks ago, and Varoufakis agreed
once he saw that the Eurogroup/ECB/Bank of Greece closed Greek banks.
I still think Syriza did a good job in the world of diplomacy,
for a small country, of
informing even the stupidest tv watchers about what's
right and what's wrong. And for what it's worth, Germany
was exposed as the de facto fascist leaders of the EU.
I think that economists are starting to check out one
viable solution which was hinted at by Schauble.
Imagine the EU doing a "temporary" (read: permanent, but secret)
grexit, while the EU prints drachmas (in secret) and then
kicks Greece out once that's done. Schauble even said that this would allow
Greece to default without Germany being too concerned.
Or we could wait for the US to start war with Russia and/or China,
in which case, all this Euro shit fades into insignificance.
The government of Greece had a specific mandate to stay IN THE EURO by the electorate.
They also were elected on a mandate to alleviate the most egregious aspects of austerity as applied to the weakest parts of society, as well as remove or curtail those aspects which were exacerbating the un-sustainability of their economy especially in terms of unemployment. That does not mean that they did not accept the necessity for reforms, including collecting taxes from the oligarchs.
But, the most important aspect of all this is that if Greece was to be thrown out of the Euro as was discussed there are no protocols for such, but certainly the damages caused to Greece would be directly attributable to the EU and its ECB for breach of their responsibilities under the existing mechanisms. However if Greece pulled out of its own accord the case would be much weaker and there would be little to no responsibility for the EU to support the humanitarian and economic fall out during transition to another currency.
The whole syriza party is a scam!!!
The government in control before before syriza was the Real Deal!! Yeah!! They were well on their way to fixing what ails Greece until those pinko socialists got in control and ruined everything. Oligarchs and technocrats rule common people drool...
it is. this hero worship of varoufakis is fucking nauseating. Putin is just as bad. You can be AMUSED by these people telling the establishment to fuck off without the constant praise of everything they do. I find it very amusing, but I certainly would not want either of them ruling over me. Yall need to grow up and understand the difference. You have such a visceral dislike for the central banks, and obama, (which I share and understand) that you let those feeling cloud your judgement and assign 'hero' status to someone that doesn't merit it just becuase they tell someone you don't like to fuck off
There are no "good guys" or innocent people in this greek mess. Every single party to this conflict shares the blame.
"There are no "good guys" or innocent people in this greek mess. Every single party to this conflict shares the blame."
Exactamundo, and posts that do not balance the blame are subject to sarcasm and cynical retorts. makes it kinda fun!!
Golden Dawn is at fault how?
To walk away from Putin's 5 billion prepayment and joining the BRICS bank either says he's all talk and no courage or definitely in the pay of the real game theorists.
Yanis Varoufakis exposes brutal reality of European Union
C'mon TS, go deeper, vourafakis is a fricking puppet fraud, not some knight in s armour...
He is going to be Greek PM with-in months and then we'll see how HIS hands are tied, poor boyah...
From the article:
"he became close ... with the Washington establishment think-tank, Brookings Institution."
What more do you need to know??
If that is the case and he becomes PM then he has played his cards right!!
Then he can proceed and be judged on his accomplishments or failures.
The anti syriza crowd is beginning to impersonate a bunch of brown nosers for the previous corrupt can kicking governments.
Kinda like the ditto heads who conveinantly forget Dubya's stunning fuck ups and blame everthing on Obummer
Really, you are going to bring ditto heads in mixed in with Obama and the blame game???
Obama is the one who kept blaming Bush for about 4 years of his time in office.
I don't know what you refer to when you say that they blame Obama for everything, but besides Iraq which Bush fucked up royally, Obama does deserve the blame for everything else.
He is like the Bizzaro world's Midas, except in his case everything he touches turns to shit.
Just an analagy of how identity politics clouds the truth. you are a perfect example. The FOX red team and the MSNBC Blue team are both full of fucking idiots...
At the time I wrote the comment there just were more Red team type comments, with some good valid points made, it is just that were biased in blaming everything on leftist pinkos and not holding the banksters and oligarchs and the more centrist previous corrupt Greek government and the ECB accountable.
.
Real Socialists listen to good blues, drink beer, and smoke reefers IMHO.
gkCarl. Ah Tsiparas and Varoufakis as venal traitors are just carrying out the capitalist banker cabal's wishes....just as the Greek conservative and technocrat govts. before have done where Varoufakis was an economic advisor. Get the picture? More kick the can, to infinity if need be. If you control the money you can control the whole ball of wax. So if your looking to call someone a fuckstick try your own biased opinions. The Greek entity is not to be allowed to default or to leave the Euro and the loan sharks are to be impossibly repaid by the selling off of all Greek infrastructure and then renting it back to the Greeks and through austerity, reducing pensions and working wages/standards and the like of the Greek people to third world status....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO8r6IcTMIU&feature=youtu.be
fs - you're like the talking heads. You completely ignore gkCarl's premise which is you can wipe out their debt tomorrow and due to their corrupt, oligarchy run economy - they would be begging for more money in 6 months. Greece is not sustainable in any shape or form.
Yep. No one's asking whether Greeks actually want self-sustenance, i.e. local production of all necessities. That's kind of the minimum requirement for secession from centralizards, followed by the willingness to defend your homes when they send the boots in for the action of withdrawal.
Varoufakis = Variable Fakery
Well said SB, well said....the AB-solutions are so SIMPLE....
Had to transcribe the lyrics - Will share with y'all one of the best songs ever:
Salem's Wych - Fight Till The End
It's just come, in iron steeds, by the warriors descending through hell.
For the evil they cast on your dreams, through the fires in which they dwell.
Flame to dust, ice to stone - for a man without dreams must die.
In a world ruled by hate, it's an eye for an eye - FIGHT TILL THE END!
Cries of death, from battles raised, is the blood drained to fill.
They see the mistakes they have made - armageddon is here.
Day is broke, night shall fall, from the ruins made to strike.
From the start, war was fate - man was born to die. FIGHT TILL THE END!
Raise the axe, prepare to defend - charriots ride to the fight.
Storm clouds fill the horizon as the landing strikes.
All to all, standing marching - to destroy is to win.
No escape as a slave - break your chains and be free! FIGHT TILL THE END!
Great song, dude, but your link is messed up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKIZs0d86bQ
Whoa, thanks Renfield. I copy/pasted the link from another virtual machine - guess it didn't carry through. Punishment Divine was the previous song I shared and stayed in the bfufer. Thanks so much for posting the correct link - the song was written from the heart.
"Even if you wrote off ALL of greece's debt, leaving them with ZERO interest payments, they STILL counldn't fund their massive, bloated govt and welfare state without borrowing more money. Complete debt forgiveness, theyd be right back in this situation a few years down the road."
A whole lot of bollocks unfortunately. Once again, some are distorting easily accessible data and openly lying, while the zerohedge sheeple not only vote this idiotic comment up but also repeat it again and agin..
Greece has a primary surplus of 2% on the average for more than 2 years.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/25/greek-budget-primary-surplus-...
Primary surplus: Government budget balance without interest payments.
Fucking hell..
Ok. Ill take this. Let me rephrase then. Not that I believe the numbers in that article anyway, no more than I believe the US GDP numbers when they get published, but Ill rephrase it anyway:
In 2010, they had "only" 100 billion in debt and they couldn't afford to operate without borrowing more money. Now they are over 300 billion in debt, and about to add another 86 bil. I don't think any kind of 'debt restructuring' would write off all their debt across the board, but lets be generous here, lets say they are writing off 2/3s of the 356 outstanding debt (that number is fom nationaldebtclock.or). Where would that leave greece? about 120 billion in debt, lets round it down to 100 billion, where they were in 2010, when they NEEDED A FUCKING BAILOUT because they COULDN'T AFFORD TO OPERATE WITHOUT BORROWING MONEY even when their debt was much smaller and therefore with much smaller interest payments.
Another point, so obvious that I don't even know why it needs to be pointed out, is that at some point, they had no debt, or very little debt, and they built up their welfare state, and had to borrow a bunch of money to fund it, so my statement that 'even if greece had no debt they would still have to borrow money' seems pretty obvious: It MUST be true, or greece wouldn't be in this situation to begin with, smart guy.
Its simple math, but with a name like "macroeconomist" im guessing that, like most of your collegues, math isn't your strong suit.
Agreed. That post above is one the dumbest things I've ever read here.
Surplus? LOL...
Edit: I looked this guy up and hes been here over 5 years yet just made his first post this month. I call bullshit.
ya i saw that too. As someone who has been commenting here for a couple years, I remember pretty much every regular poster, so when I see someone that been here for 5 years and yet I don't ever remember seeing a single post from them, I assume troll. Its fucking weird though, who the fuck was making accounts that long ago, not using them, and then showing up to comment on this article, responding to that particular post, and WHY?
Maybe he was reluctant to comment, because he knew he was going to get torn apart from paranoid schizophrenics at loose in the comments section?
From two ins to one out,
he's still two of the one-two punches.
They "knew" what-how to do from day 1.
http://sorendreier.com/greece-you-are-in-great-danger/
How many more morons do I have to shut up on this website?
I've been here for over 5 years, I have made hundreds of comments but newcomers like you don't even know that messages longer than a month back do not come up in the searches in the last two years or so.
No need to respond to other idiots who make up their own data, and start crying and presenting their own prejudices and talking about 2010 when someone sticks that data up their ass.
The level of collective masturbation on zerohedge is very entertaining. Keep up boys.
ps: We used to have pretty serious conversations here before teenagers and illiterate reactionary morons like those commenting above took over the comments section.
so your response to my post is that there is no need to respond to it? Thats what Id say too if I was fucking WRONG. A fitting response from a macroeconomist. And what data did you "stick up my ass". As I said, I don't believe any numbers that come out of those organizations. You can't refute my point abotu 2010 because its fucking obvious. if their system of govt was sustainable, we wouldn't be here would we? Seems pretty obvious to me. If they couldn't survive without borrowing money in 2010 when their debt was only 100 billion, why would you expect them to be able to survive with that amount now?
As Tyler points out, Varofakis committed the cardinal sin of sending out hubris loaded ultimatums.
You better have a Plan B in your pocket first.
Like a few hundred pallets of Drachmas printed and ready to roll.
For that alone, the teacher gets a failing grade.
The day Syrza came into office they should have had the Purchase Order cut to for $10 Billion in currency and the nationalization plan for the banks - with this smoking gun - De La Rue is the world's largest commercial banknote printer in the UK - cost less than $300 million upfront
seeking a DIP loan is easy with the Banks as collateral and a 1% banking tax
This all means that the entire game for six months was a charade of monumental betrayal - nothing more
this was about the great experiment on how the people will react to War by another means - answer: you get get the sheeple to commit....... suicide
the fact that V hasnt answered this question is why he is part of the problem
Bingo Omen, well stated.
Vorafuckshit Vs. Tsipras is just more divide and rule NONSENSE.
One reason that recovery will be so difficult for Greece is that they have not controlled their own destiny for centuries. While they zealously protected their cultural identity all that time they did not govern. Before WW1 the Bolsheviks used Greece as a nesting point and spawned socialist cesspools from which they infiltrated Russia. After the Ottomans the troublemaking Bolshevik leftovers were thick into the Greek civil war, during which time the Greeks should have been trying to reorganize. Then WW2, then more socialism. In other words, they have had no room to grow natually and normally.
This in turn has formed into some kind of deep-seated social dysfunction, where most Greeks cherish their heritage and claim to be free-thinking people while at the same time want to keep a socialist system that brings them nothing but disaster. In order to halt the disasters they have to dump the EU and give up the easy socialist life but they don't want that either. They are now trapped in a socio-financial version of the Labyrinth.
Of course the EU scavengers would rope them in. The Greeks did not have the luxury of forming their own future after the Ottomans without some war or a pack of warmongers using them for NWO gains. At this point there is no easy way out but the best would be for them to at least consider going back to the drachma, dumping the EU, and aligning with their more culturally compatible neighbors in Russia for a better financial plan.
Greece will be mess for a long time no matter what. It comes down to a hard life under EU slave holders who will allow them just enough to survive the present and short term, or a hard life under a Russian financial plan toward a free and better future.
If Russia really wanted to forge a strategic partnership with Greece, and the Greeks agreed, there's a lot of potential. Russian tourists love to spend money at mediterranean resorts, but currently go for Turkey. Greek islands have orthodox churches on them instead of mosques, and people in Russia are becoming more churchgoing. With a cheap drachma and a good propaganda campaign, and perhaps an airline subsidy, Russia could flood Greece with tourists. Not to mention cheap gas and loans.
Agreed, default and then back to the Drachma a beautiful inexpensive vacation destination for the entire world.
Yet, the US and NATO would sabatoge it. Buy politicians and power, if necessary subsidize riots and coups, false flags etc.
GeoPolitics dictates it and you do not want Portugal or Spain getting any bright ideas about how to fix their economic mess.
I think $19 Trillion in National Debt trumps the Euro/Greek foolery any day for the greatest (soon to be) largest macroeconomic disaster in history.
it was the greek socialists that wanted to end the perpetual bailouts, essentially declare bankruptcy, reorganize greece's debt and implement reforms. the debt in greece had been crammed down their throats by the EU supported by obama and his wall street financiers. it was obama that pushed the IMF bailout in 2010 that rescued the european banks. very little of the money that has been lent to greece has benefited the people who are now expected to pay it back, the usual victims - pensioners, students, the poor etc. reforms that were aimed at specifically addressing the corruption and tax evasion of the elites that were proposed by tsipras and varoufakis were rejected by the EU in favour of increased VAT, cuts to pensions etc. do you really think that the current situation was not foreseeable at the inception of the common currency? this has all been done by the elites both within greece and the eurozone with a view to perpetual debt slavery. to suggest that this is a by-product of socialism shows that you don't understand either the nature and goals of the eurozone nor the concept of socialism.
"it was the greek socialists that wanted to end the perpetual bailouts"
so the socialists saw through the "perpetual bailouts for perpetual prosperity" ponzie scheme
it wasn't hard to see through. even the IMF said that the debt could never be repaid.
Carl, yep absolutley true, perhaps this will lead to a recalibration of the Greek national ethos that needs to occur, the graft, tax evasion and the socialistic mind set needs to end. Yet you keep forgetting or underestimating the second half of the problem, the crony capitalistic euro banksters and technocrats who paved the way then socialized their huge financial risk/loss positions .The uber wealthy Greeks who avoided paying taxes and then expatriated their money out of the country, they need to be held accountable, it will never happen, money talks and fiat money flows to the those who already have it and the sociopaths will never have enough and those that can get in accept the status quo and those who do not get priced out. The playing field becomes more rigged , the same as it ever was, only worse and less and less just or fair, until hopefully someday SHTF and we can start fresh for awhile.
I don't particularly care if people don't pay taxes. The govt typically wastes it anyway, especially that one. There is a long tradition among greeks with not paying their taxes, and their tax code is written as if to encourage that behaviour. They view taxation as theft, and while I am sympathetic with that view, they also expect the govt to take care of them and provide everything, and youcan't have it both ways. If you want to erect a massive, bloated welfare state, you have to expect to pay 50% plus in taxes for it, no exceptions. Or, you could have freedom, and keep your money and be responsible for yourself. The greeks want it both ways, where they keep all their earnings yet still get taken care of some how.
If you listen to what he says, he actually wants the bailouts and endless loans to stop. He doesn't want to borrow more and seems to think it's better to bite the bullet and go bankrupt. In fact he argues (correctly) that Greece is already bankrupt.
He was also part of a small group that did work on plans for an exit, to issue IOU's etc...or at least usr that as a threat, but this was stopped by the moderate Tsipras who needed to make the executive decisiob there.
I admit, surprising for someone who describes himself as an erratic marxist. Butif a man talks sense, he talks sense. He was ready and willing to let it come to a head, but Tsipras stopped him.
If they cause the collapse of the euro I don't think it's that accidental either.
You're talking sense here, unlike the idiots above. Tsipras is the piece of shit that ordered Plan B stopped.
Monday Morning Quarterback!! I have been listening to him for several years now..He is not only astute but is looking at th real situation they are in and best solution for his country. Your post just reaks of ignorance and arrogance. Do some more research on him before making such rediculous, uninformed assumtions.
And to be critic is th eeasiest thing in the world to be as you don't actually have to DO anything. When you get the qualifications as he does and put your self in the fiing line in an attempt to solve difficult problems nto caused by yourself then your opinion 'might' hold some water..otherwsie go back to your sandpit.
I was a Varoufakis cheerleader after he got himself kicked out of negotiations with Scheable. I can only dream of pissing off a major government to this degree!
However, I'm now off the Varoufakis bandwagon after discovering that there were NO preparations made for a replacement currency. Badly done. As a Libertarian I was really looking for the new currency/Grexit scenario.
You know, if I was the Greeks right now, probably the biggest negotiating chip they could obtain is to buy a freaking printing press and start running some samples of the new Greek Drachma. You know, get some input, see which designs the Greeks like best. Just quietly do it, don't make a big fuss. Twitter will take care of the rest from there.
"If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It is much easier to apologize than it is to get permission."
This has worked best for me in life. In this case, the apology is not warranted.
Miffed
Why is this something that we intuitively know at 8 years old but forget somewhere along the way?
Some of my best childhood memories were built around this principle.
A few damn good beatings too.
Yeah, I have a few scars from this I must admit. I look at them as my own custom made tattoos.
Learning is best experiential vs educational but you better have strong bones and courage. Seeing little kids cooped up playing videos makes me sad.
Miffed;-)
Yup.
On the other hand, hiding the household hatchets probably would have been a prudent move.
A lot of serious near misses revolved around building rafts for the pond way deep in the woods.
Endurance swimming lessons would have come in handy too.
When our girls were 5 and 8 we invited a couple of boys over to play. Within minutes Mr launched off the couch and ran down stairs when he heard his band saw turn on. They were making rafts for our seasonal creek that was gushing. All four of them were exhausted mud monsters after eight hours.
Boys, power tools and running water are an interesting combo. I guess that mixture isn't considered appropriate today.
Miffed;-)
Greece could only return to Drachma if preparations were made in secret as TPTB would sabotage any efforts they got wind of.
Maybe there's a quiet Kinkos in Moscow or Beijing that would help them out.
I'm with you there. I find it hard to believe that Putin didn't offer some alternative to the seppuku that Tsipras is performing, unless performing is indeed the operative word. We know that banksters have no compunction against killing if need be... might Alexis have been warned in the wee hours of the night?
maybe they showed him the empire's greatest 'hits' - what happens to leaders that don't follow orders: kennedy, mossadegh, allende, lumumba, saddam, qaddafi, moro ...
Unfortunately, first they need a loan to buy the printing press.
please, the biggest negotiating chip would be tsipiras' head on a stick
Tsipras "doesn't eat, doesn't sleep": Poor baby! Coulda fooled me, looking at his chubby, spoiled face, and fat little fingers...
There's got to be people in Greece smarter than these two clowns.
I wouldn't bank on it. European males have been neutered long ago and brainwashed with the same libtard shit we have for years. The Nigel Farages of the world seem to be quite rare.
Considering that the majority of people upvoting your comment are unmarried American males sitting in their parent's basement, this is unintentional comedy at its finest.
Maybe so, but you approve of genocide. I wonder who has the moral high ground?
dag, yes, and none of them want to catch a banker's ordered suicide either
Greece has been partying for years on other people money, sending the bill to Germany. Is that what you mean by stupid?
Well, 61% of them thought their voted mattered so maybe not.
Doesn't sleep because he is a traitor. Sold his people to bondage.
He also might be worried about the possibility of being presented with a cement overcoat.
He knows he screwed his people and sold their country to the banksters.
Now it's a process of the banksters picking apart Greece, like vultures on a carcass.
"he decided that capitulation was the ultimate strategy"
Capitulate, bitchez!
No sympathy for this Greek Judas
I don't agree with everyone who is dissing this guy. Forget the comments about "game theory", etc., I think this fucker is just calling it as he sees it.
He resigned because he couldn't stand being a part of it, not because his "game theory" failed?
We need more guys like this. Tsipras, on the other hand, is a fucking weasel.
Are you saying Varoufakis is the Greek Donald Trump?
"we need more guys like him"
Yes, we need more socialist statists to run the world. We don't have enough massive welfare states on this planet, they are in short supply. As has been pointed out here many times, this guy and all their "anti-austerity" talk is a bunch of bullshit. All being anti-austertiy means is being pro deficit spending, pro welfare state, pro borrowing, pro money printing, pro inflation. He isn't offering anything new. He is offering the EXACT same unrealistic promise that greeks have been believing for decades: there is such a thing as a free lunch, for all greeks, forever. There isn't. There never has been. There never will be.
Then again, there's a certain cache' to being a proud Captain of a sinking ship rather than a chained prisoner in the hold.
He lost his bluff because of no ace in the hole.
Without paychecks, the Greeks would eat him like souvlaki.
Paychecks roll or heads roll. Not much of a choice.
I support anyone who sticks their finger in the eye of the establishment. I'm less concerned about political philosophy these days.
for me, I don't "support" anyone JUST becuase they stick their finger in the eye of the establishment. That in and of itself is not enough cause for support. I am definetely "amused by" and entertained by" anyone who sticks their finger in the eye of the establishment, and Varoufakis is a good example of this. Putin is another. But, I definitely don't want either one of them ruling over me. The hero worship for these guys is nauseating.
Good point. I would add as nauseating the ass kissing of the corrupt status quo
Whatthefackus has more (real) hair than the Donald
error
http://99getsmart.com/greece-referendum-syriza-didnt-get-the-message/
Resubmitting for you. Read this and you will find that he was never anything other than Austerity Lite
Of course not. But hope must be kept alive.
And, neoliberal ZH may be a strange bedfellow for hope of that sort, but it was a lovely post-mortem analysis, imo.
Good to read a Greek pumdit for a chamge
Philo bone, Tsiparas had lots of options but ignored them on purpose. This kinda shows he willingly went down the blind alley where the only way forward was to surrender. Varoufakis is more of the same. He was an economic advisor to former P.M. Papandreou. Notice the new finance minister of Tsiparas is a Euro technocrat assigned the task of carrying out the banker cabal's wishes, Varoufakis leaving his post as soon as the "job" was done.. Syriza's leaders were Manchurians from the beginning and expected a yes vote as camouflage to their fake regrettable capitulation. The no vote tore away this camo revealing the treachery that was going on. T and V could have gone back to the Drachma/nationalized the banks as Iceland has with its independent currency. Tand V could have taken up the Russian and the BRICS offer. T and V could have pushed through monetary reforms to allow for some debt free money into their system to balance the banker's debt money....etcetera.
Yes, but if they are manchurians why go to all the fuss of stirring up a crisis in the first place? I think they were out of their depth, plain and simple. eg Trump would have got better terms for the Greeks than Tsipras.
There it is. Unembellished simple and obvious truth.
We know Columbus got it wrong about earth being flat. It's actually shaped like a can.
Yanis is full of sound, fury, and excess verbiage signifying doing nothing.
Varoufakis is 100% right!
Yet he is still unethical for supporting a compromised by the lenders goverment! Let us not argue that its not the same party he thinks he joined in the first place! Ever since that popular OXI vote!
At least after that he realized his "Mates" was never up for being a serious goverment... if they where they would be ready even in the slightest of the worst possible outcome and they would welcome the best with joy!
That's what serious goverments do!
I can't deny that many of his views are spot on and he judges things quite right but politically speaking he has nothing to offer! not to Greece not to Syriza!
Not now that his mates got him out!
http://99getsmart.com/greece-referendum-syriza-didnt-get-the-message/
Read the above. Whatthefackus is just another rat deserting a sinking ship
He knows thatTsipras will go down as one of the worst political losers of the last 100 years. And will in infamy to Greeks asa soulless traitor
Mr. Game Theory is equally culpable. He had nothing beyond bluffing to Grexit either
Send Tsipras to the Guillotine.
Just have the decency to let this thing die already. Greece should default completely. Since their politicians will not acknowledge that, just force it on them, and let the country recover from a clean slate.
What about the derivatives?
A worldwide economic collapse is not always as fun as it sounds on the surface.
The citizens should string Tsipras up like Mussolini.
http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm
Apparently the Greek people haven't been robbed enough by the banksters.
So you say like the Greece "economy" continue as it has the past 15 years? You want another Argentina?
This is also what they should do with the heads of the biggest American banks.
Well Said Yanis.
Its time that Mutti kicked out Schauble.
Troikas 2008 - 20??
Varfak's the man. Tsippy is a slime-ball. Sorry, mum.
Tsipras is Greek for Woodrow Wilson.
It's clear Tsipras' real name was always Tsiprasteinbergman.
"... "Alexis lately does not eat, does not sleep, but he has no choice ..."
He did have a choice, he could have said NO MORE BAILOUTS!
He is, certainly, no Spartan!
He can't sleep because he's going full Charlie Sheen with the suitcase of cash he was given to sell out his country. Doing coke off a hooker's ass isn't conducive to a restful night.
"he has a debt to the people who put their faith in him"
And he let them down big time
Yabut.
It's a Greek debt, so you know what that means...
it was out and out treachery by Tsiparas and Varoufakis as out and out Quislings. They are both banker cabal agents playing their parts. Only this time with the oxi vote their camouflage was blown as the kabuki theater traitors they really are in that they meant to "reluctantly" capitulate all along leading, the Greek people to accept their banker cabal induced fate. We in the west had better wake up to what has gone down here before its our turn!!
KKE (Communist) Golden Dawn unity govt is Greece's only hope
Why?
They got any money?
No. Unfortunately Greece, as a nation state, has no hope. The Greek Oligarchy and the foreign interests buying Greek state assets are all benefiting from the status quo. The Greek Military receives much of the state's largesse, so they will not be agents of change. Any Greek politician from any party Will serve the interests of the EU and the Greek oligarchy and MIC. Those 3 instutions have money and weapons power. The bottom 25% of Greeks have only the power to vote, which has been shown to be worthless. Without exercising the power of economics or violence they can change nothing.
I agree with you NiZe. I was being a little jokey.
They can't even muster a German boycott. The people have been gelded. Greece will be a zombie nation. Lefties will throw a few molotov cocktails and then pack their bags to emigrate. That's their only choice left
So YV was playing game theory even though he said he wasn't. And he didn't have plans to reissue the drachma? Shit just issue the drachma and start circulating silver. It would have been that easy, but I bet YV isn't a silver bug like me and thinks fiat money has value.
Even a pile of fiat paper with a picture of a dead Greek guy on it is better than nothing.
Which is where they are right now pulling a Blanche Dubois.
“I’ve always depended on the kindness of strangers.”
Unfortunately for Blanche she learned those strangers will abuse her and leave her with nothing, like Europe did to Greece.
Tsipras needs to go after every previous Greek government official who sold Greece out.
Any other action has become futile.
Greek banks "open" on Monday. Except you can only withdraw a maximum 420 euros a week, which sounds a lot like the current 60 euros a day maximum now. What a fucking joke.
I dont get this Tsipras clown, if you dont have the balls to run a country let me in there ill fix everything in like 4 days and i wont lose any sleep over it.
Ill even doit for free..... I have a plane ticket to go already, just say the word.
Think Billary. Think Quill and Dagger. Think Rockefeller demonstrating that calk serfs are more profitable than rainbow slaves, then transitioning from slaves to serfs at the expense of his most honorable cousin, Czar Alexandre 2, who freed 22 million serfs.
Look what they did to him.
This play is just getting started. Act 2. Nowhere to run.
Know thy self. Face the shadow casting 2 legged cockroaches.
They are weak. You are stronger.
Crunch. Crunch. Crunch.
Tsipras does not eat, does not sleep...he goes from the airport straight to parliament.
I see the problem...he needs to change his schedule..go from the airport to your home...get some sleep and eat a good meal...then go to parliament. sometimes to solve a problem...you need to think outside the box.
Mr Tsipras...Greece cannot have their cake and eat it also...give up running around...the eurozone has lent Greece $200 billion dollars worth of cake...Greece ate the cake..and now Greece cannot figure out how to pay the baker.
Mr. Tsipras is just running around trying to figure out how to defer payments..instead of running around and figuring out how to make payments.
Except fot my jewish inlaws, by hook or by crook, Varafoukis would be well esteemed in my family.
Start storing food and water.
This debt issue is not new. Tsipras is either an idiot or liar...or both. It is nice to hear he cannot sleep or eat. WTF did he think or better yet he did not think.
Greek economics vs. Spanish economics.
Greek olives= 1 picker and 1 packer.
Spanish olives= 1 picker, 1 packer and 2 million people to cut out the pits and stuff them with pimentos.
But the pimento growers are on strike.
" it rushed to vote through a bridge loan to Greece so the insolvent nation had some funds to repay the ECB's Monday debt maturity"
This seriously fucking happened? I'll loan you the money that you owe us.
It's called "Modern Economics".
If it makes no sense to you, it's because you have no education in Modern Economics or you're simply too stupid to understand.
They learn all this nonsense in universititty (Harvard School of Economics et al).
/sarc
they were disengenyous from the start. they should have left printed their own currency defaulted and suffered for 3 to 5 years and be free. these guys are assholes fuck them they will now get what they deserve. they never had the balls to be men fuck them
The Biggest Lie of All....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lchtwf5Fvhc
Either Tsiparis chickened out a the last minute or they have somehting on him.