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Why America's First National Supermarket Chain Just Filed For Bankruptcy, Again
Back in December 2010, we were "stunned" when we learned that in a what was a clear case of a supermarket chain unable to pass through costs to consumers, the Great Atlantic & Pacific Company ("Great Atlantic", "A&P" or the "Debtors"), which in 1936 became the first national supermarket chain in the US, would file for bankruptcy adding that "it is ironic that instead of passing through costs supermarkets are instead opting out to default". Although perhaps even back then it was clear to A&P that the capacity of US consumer to shoulder higher prices is far worse than what the mainstream media would lead everyone to believe.
Fast forward to last night, when less than five years after its first Chapter 11 filing (and three years after emerging from a bankruptcy in March 2012 as a privately-held company part owned by Ron Burkle's Yucaipa with a clean balance sheet including $490 million in new debt and equity financing), overnight Great Atlantic, which controls such supermarket brand names as A&P, Waldbaum’s, SuperFresh, Pathmark, Food Basics, The Food Emporium, Best Cellars, and A&P Liquors - filed for repeat bankruptcy, or as it is better known in restructuring folklore, Chapter 22.
So what happened in the intervening 5 years that caused the company which employes 28,500 workers (93% of whom are members of one of twelve local unions and who are employed by A&P under some 35 separate collective bargaining agreements) to deteriorate so badly that it burned through all of its post (first) petition cash and redefault?
In one word: unions.
Because just like in the case of comparable Chapter 22 (and subsequently liquidation) case of Twinkies maker Hostess, so A&P is blaming the unwillingness of its biggest cost center, its employees, to negotiate their way out of what will be an event in which at least half the company's employees will be laid off.
Here is the full story, as narrated by Christopher W. McGarry, Great Atlantic's Chief Restructuring Officer:
[Great Atlantic is] one of the nation’s oldest leading supermarket and food retailers, operating approximately 300 supermarkets, beer, wine, and liquor stores, combination food and drug stores, and limited assortment food stores across six Northeastern states. The Debtors’ primary retail operations consist of supermarkets operated under a variety of wellknown trade names, or “banners,” including A&P, Waldbaum’s, SuperFresh, Pathmark, Food Basics, The Food Emporium, Best Cellars, and A&P Liquors. The Debtors currently employ approximately 28,500 employees, over 90% of whom are members of one of twelve local unions whose members are employed by the Debtors under the authority of 35 separate collective bargaining agreements (collectively, the “CBAs”). As of February 28, 2015, the Debtors reported total assets of approximately $1.6 billion and total liabilities of approximately $2.3 billion.
A&P was founded in 1859. By 1878, The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company (A&P)—originally referred to as The Great American Tea Company—had grown to 70 stores. A&P introduced the nation’s first “supermarket”—a 28,125 square foot store in Braddock, Pennsylvania—in 1936 and, by the 1940s, operated at nearly 16,000 locations. The Tengelmann Group of West Germany’s purchase A&P in 1979 precipitated an expansion effort that led to the acquisition of, among others, a number of Stop & Shops in New Jersey, the Kohl’s chain in Wisconsin, and Shopwell. Due to a series of operational and financial obstacles, including high labor costs and fast-changing trends within the grocery industry, by 2006 A&P had reduced its footprint to just over 400.
In 2008, A&P acquired its largest competitor, Pathmark Stores, Inc., in an effort to continue expanding its brand portfolio and, in doing so, became the largest supermarket chain in the New York City area. A&P continued to experience significant liquidity pressures on account of burdensome supplier contracts, overwhelming labor costs, and other significant legacy obligations. Moreover, A&P had become highly leveraged and was unable to operate as a profitable company.
Did we mention this is the second Great Atlantic bankruptcy in under five years? Yes, we did.
This is the Debtors’ second bankruptcy in just five years. A&P previously filed the 2010 Cases seeking to achieve an operational and financial restructuring. The 2010 Cases were difficult and challenging. Unfortunately, despite best efforts and the infusion of more than $500 million in new capital in the 2010 Cases, A&P did not achieve nearly as much as was needed to turn around its business and sustain profitability. For example, during the 2010 Cases, A&P decided against closing approximately 50-60 underperforming stores in their supermarket portfolio in favor of preserving the jobs in those stores. Instead, A&P pursued a financial restructuring and negotiated a reduction in labor and vendor costs to attempt to return these stores to profitability. Those efforts have failed. Similarly, A&P did not seek to address its multi-employer pension and certain other significant legacy obligations. These obligations have been a drain on the Company for the entire post-emergence period. From February 2014 through February 2015, A&P lost more than $300 million.
Which was more than half of the total exit funding Great Atlantic obtained as part of its first bankruptcy process. And now comes the blame:
In addition to their weak performance, the Debtors’ businesses remain plagued by other limitations that have prevented them from operating in an efficient and profitable manner. Among other things, most of the Debtors’ CBAs contain “bumping” provisions that require A&P to conduct layoffs by seniority, i.e., by terminating junior union members before more senior members. Bumping provisions also have an inter-store component: upon the closing of a store, terminated union employees are permitted to take the job of a more junior employee at another store (resulting in the most junior employee at that store losing his or her job). As a result, the closing of one store results in increased salaries—the same high salaries that may have in part precipitated the store closing—being transferred to another (possibly profitable) store. In fact, the Debtors have continued to operate certain stores that regularly operate at a loss because continuing to operate such stores at a loss is less costly to A&P than the bumping costs (combined with other “legacy” costs) that would be triggered by closing such stores.
It's not just the unions: A&P takes at least some blame for being unable to properly invest CapEx into growth, instead squandering its cash on unresolved cash drains: look for this excuse to be prevalents during the mass bankruptcies to follow in the next few years when hundreds of companies which are buying back stock now will lament loudly they did not invest in their own future instead.
The Debtors’ deteriorating financial condition has also been compounded by the fact that, since emerging from the 2010 Cases, their unsustainable cost structure has prevented them from investing sufficiently in their businesses at a pivotal time in the competitive grocery industry, when their peers were investing heavily in new stores and existing store remodels, robust pricing initiatives, and were introducing technological advances and other initiatives to customize and improve the consumer experience. For example, under its plan of reorganization in the 2010 Cases, A&P was projected to invest over $500 million in capital improvements during the ensuing 5-year period. Since emergence, due to insufficient capital and declining operations, among other things, the Debtors have been able to deploy capex at scarcely more than half that rate. As a result, many of the Debtors’ stores have remained outdated and/or underinvested, making it difficult to attract and retain new customers during a crucial time of rebranding and rebuilding
And then, once the market realized A&P was in dire straits, it didn't take long for the "JCPenney effect" to materialize and for suppliers to tighten vendor terms, draining the company of even more cash:
In addition to the historical pressures on their liquidity, as news of the Debtors’ continued financial challenges recently began to permeate throughout the market, a number of the Debtors’ suppliers and vendors began contacting management and demanding changes in payment and credit terms. Certain of the Debtors’ vendors have negotiated reduction in trade terms while others have demanded that the Debtors pay cash in advance as a condition for further deliveries. Although the Debtors have been working diligently with their advisors to resolve open vendor issues and avoid supply chain interruption, the actions taken by these vendors have further diminished the Debtors’ cash position by approximately $24 million in the weeks prior to the Commencement Date. Furthermore, on July 14, 2015, C&S Wholesale Grocers, Inc. (“C&S”) – the Debtors’ primary supplier of approximately 65% of all goods – issued a notice of default for non-payment of the $17 million deferred paymen.
The end result of this escalation of bad management decision and intransigent labor unions: "cash burn rates averaging $14.5 million during the first four periods of Fiscal Year 2015" which gave the company no choice but "to commence these Chapter 11 Cases as the only viable alternative to avoid a fire sale liquidation of the company."
But why not try to do what the company tried in 2010 with its first bankruptcy, and get it right this time? Here is what happened the last time A&P bet on a post-bankruptcy existence:
Upon emergence from the 2010 Cases, the Debtors had $93.3 million of cash on their balance sheet and were prepared to invest in the growth of their business. In an effort to distance their businesses from the specter of bankruptcy, the Debtors designed and implemented an integrated marketing campaign intended to show customers that they had successfully emerged from bankruptcy and were prepared to move forward by offering highquality, localized products and enhanced services. The campaign entailed temporary price reductions and promotional advertising of the same through print, television, and radio. The Debtors’ investments did not, however, achieve the desired returns. Although the Debtors’ strategy drew more customers to their stores, such efforts were at the expense of margin income and the Debtors were not building productive, long-lasting relationships with their customers.
The Debtors’ thwarted attempts to attract and retain a new customer base compounded with their lingering legacy obligations drove down sales throughout many of their stores and negatively impacted their bottom line. During the first six months of fiscal year 2012, the Debtors were losing approximately $28 million per month. In an effort to turnaround their businesses, the Debtors’ management team launched a business strategy intended to restore stability and offset increasing post-restructuring liquidity pressures by scaling back the temporary price reductions they had implemented in certain of their stores because such reductions were showing diminishing marginal returns, setting up better controls over cash management, and monetizing a number of their real estate assets. Over a period of six to ten months, the Debtors generated over $200 million in asset sales, including sale leasebacks, while only relinquishing a handful of stores. The proceeds from these sales were used largely to pay down debt, while also giving the businesses with a slim liquidity buffer.
The Debtors’ business strategy showed signs of success and, by the end of fiscal year 2013, the Debtors had $192 million in cash, EBITDA was in the range of $121 million, and four-wall EBITDA was approximately $228 million. Still, due to the increasing competitive nature of the industry, during the same year, sales were down by 7.6% when compared to the prior year.
And this was during a period when the US economy was allegedly growing like gangbusters. Still, Yucaipa did not enjoy the prospect of losing its entire investment and pushed the company to sell itself. That did not work out:
After stabilizing their businesses during fiscal year 2013, the Debtors’ private equity owners began to evaluate potential strategic alternatives and, in Spring 2013, the Debtors retained Credit Suisse AG (“Credit Suisse”) to review such alternatives, including a possible going concern sale of the company. Credit Suisse initiated contact with a number of potential buyers and financial sponsors and marketed an equity-based sale of the company. Although the Credit Suisse marketing process garnered meaningful interest in the Debtors’ assets, the Debtors did not receive a viable offer for the stock of the company. The Debtors and their advisors ultimately determined that selling assets in smaller or one-off sales was not the best way to maximize recoveries and protect the interest of stakeholders, including their thousands of employees. Accordingly, plans to sell the Debtors’ businesses were placed in a state of suspension.
Right, they were concerned about the thousands of employees, sure.
In any event, then came the endgame, right at a time when the US recovery had never been stronger if one listens to the propaganda media:
The Debtors continued to suffer declining revenues. The Debtors showed a net loss of $305 million in Fiscal Year 2014, compared with a net loss of $68 million in Fiscal Year 2013. The Debtors generated a negative EBIT of -1.9% of sales or $105 million in Fiscal Year 2014, compared to a positive EBIT of 1.1% of sales, or $62 million, in Fiscal Year 2013. In 2014, the Debtors experienced a sales decline of approximately 6% when compared with 2013, and the trend continued into 2015.
The Debtors determined that they may continue to lose up to $10 to 12 million in cash per period during 2015. Additionally, the recent tightening of vendor terms has adversely affected working capital by approximately $24 million. Those situations would make them unable to maintain sufficient liquidity to meet the minimum cash requirements during 2015. Based on preliminary projections, the Debtors expected EBITDA of approximately $40 to $50 million in the 52 weeks ending February 29, 2016 (“Fiscal Year 2015”). With maintenance capital expenditures (approximately $35 million), higher cash contributions for workers’ compensation payments than expense (approximately $17 million), pension contributions greater than the actuarially-calculated book expenses (approximately $17 million), the tightening of accounts payables terms (approximately $24 million) and an eroding sales base, the company projected it would be unable to satisfy the $38 million in interest and principal due during Fiscal Year 2015.
So here is the CRO's summary of the two key factors that precipitated Great Atlantic's second, and final, bankruptcy. Chief among them: labor unions:
- Inflexible Collective Bargaining Agreements [aka Unions]. In addition to mandating direct labor costs, the CBAs contain a variety of different work rules that have functioned to hamstring the Debtors’ operations. For example, as stated above, most of the CBAs contain “bumping” provisions that require the Debtors to hire employees from a closed store location at a different nearby store and replace less senior employees at such store. Because any healthy store in close proximity to a store that is closing must take on the increased costs of retaining more senior level employees, “bumping” costs make it difficult and, in some cases, financially impractical, to close unprofitable stores notwithstanding that such stores continue to strain the Debtors’ balance sheet. For instance, one of the Debtors’ stores in Hackensack, New Jersey loses approximately $4 million per year but, under the applicable CBA, closing that store would require the Debtors to “bump” certain senior employees to a number of nearby stores— increasing labor costs by around $1.5 million per year. Preliminary analysis conducted by the Debtors’ advisors indicates that closing Initial Closing Stores alone could generate bumping costs as high as almost $14.8 million—making it more efficient to keep these stores open, absent relief from such provisions pursuant to the MA& Strategy.
- Crippling Legacy Costs. Historically, the Debtors’ legacy costs have not been aligned with the operating reality of their businesses. The Debtor’ labor-related costs make up 17.75% of sales while the total merchandising income before any warehousing/transportation and operating expenses is 35.48% of sales.
And then there was the usual red herring excuse:
- Competitive Industry. The Debtors also continue to face competitive pressure within the supermarket industry. For the reasons set forth herein, upon emerging from the 2010 Cases, the Debtors had a diminished capacity to invest in long-term capital projects. Thus, as the Debtors’ competitors realized new technology platforms, remodeled and enhanced their stores, and implemented localization strategies geared toward tailoring each store to specific neighborhood needs, the Debtors have not been able to invest in creating an operational distinction between their various “banners” and tailor stores to customer needs.
Which brings us to what happens next to Great Atlantic, which instead of simply throwing more good money after bad and hoping for a different outcome this time, is filing bankruptcy to break all existing labor union collective bargaining agreements (CBAs). Briefly, the company had conducted a pre-petition asset sale process and found that the best it can do is find buyers for just 120 stores, which employ 12,500 employees, for an aggregate purchase price of almost $600 million as part of a Stalking Horse process.
In other words, one failed acquisition and one failed bankruptcy later, A&P is about to go from 300 supermarkets to at most 120, and over 15,000 workers or well over half of the work force is about to be laid off.
The irony is that if it wasn't for unions, it would be something else, like loading up on massive amounts of debt to repay Yucaipa's equity investment, which would then be unsustainable once rates rose and once interest expense became so high it soaked up all the company's cash flow (a harbinger of what is coming for the rest of US corporations who have rushed to issued trillions in debt just to pay their shareholders).
And, sure enough, the Union wasted no time in responding: The United Food and Commercial Workers Union, which represents A&P’s 30,000 employees, called on the company and any potential buyers to “do what is right” for the membership.
“As difficult as this bankruptcy process is, our message to A&P is a simple one. For the sake of the men and women of A&P, now is the time for A&P and any potential buyers to focus on doing what is right for our hard-working members and their families,” the union said.
“Our hard-working members are not just employees — they are the heart and soul of these stores. They are committed to their success and determined to make them even stronger. We look forward to working with any company that will do what is right by our members and their families.”
Addressing the members themselves, the union said, “We understand the uncertainty and concern that this bankruptcy announcement brings. We want our members and their families to know we are here to help in every way we can.”
The UFCW also said it expects A&P “to stay in business during this bankruptcy process and honor its responsibilities to its employees … The UFCW and UFCW local unions will work hard to ensure that the process for selling stores protects our members’ jobs, working conditions and benefits.
“We will also hold A&P to its commitments to involve UFCW in the sales process [and] protect union contracts and these good jobs.”
Good luck.
In conclusion, one can't help but wonder if current events that are taking place behind the non-GAAP facade of America's public companies, what is going on at A&P is far more indicative of the true state of the economy, an economy where due to both legacy constraints, bad management and, naturally, a deteriorating economy for all but the top 1%, the best that companies can do is support at most half their employees... after filing for bankruptcy of course.
Full A&P affidavit below
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Fuck all unions, they only benifit government and uqualified bastards , redundant.
Fuck the CEO past and present and middle management past and present.
You wouldn't need Unions if these cocksuckers took care of their employees. They don't. They didn't back in the day when unions were born. They're SURE AS HELL are not now in the Fascistic Crony Capitalist Age we are living in.
Not saying Unions are good. But when you rub your dick long enough without lube, you're going to get a blister. Natural course of events. Unions are the natural consequence of Corrupt Crony Capitalism. Always is, always will be.
Here is a useful observation of unionized vs non-unionized wage growth:
And some thoughts from Crispin Odey:
This explains why corporations can't wait to shed CBAs (even if this means filing bankruptcy) as these clearly prevent them from sending even more cash to controlling shareholders.
The irony is that if it wasn't for unions, it would be something else, like loading up on massive amounts of debt to repay Yucaipa's equity investment, which would then be unsustainable once rates rose and once interest expense became so high it soaked up all the company's cash flow
Er.. that’s not irony. Inability to cover interest in the face of falling sales is literally the reason they are filing for bankruptcy, as the article makes plainly obvious.
In 2014, the Debtors experienced a sales decline of approximately 6% when compared with 2013, and the trend continued into 2015.
The Debtors determined that they may continue to lose up to $10 to 12 million in cash per period during 2015. Additionally, the recent tightening of vendor terms has adversely affected working capital by approximately $24 million. Those situations would make them unable to maintain sufficient liquidity to meet the minimum cash requirements during 2015. Based on preliminary projections, the Debtors expected EBITDA of approximately $40 to $50 million in the 52 weeks ending February 29, 2016 (“Fiscal Year 2015”). With maintenance capital expenditures (approximately $35 million), higher cash contributions for workers’ compensation payments than expense (approximately $17 million), pension contributions greater than the actuarially-calculated book expenses (approximately $17 million), the tightening of accounts payables terms (approximately $24 million) and an eroding sales base, the company projected it would be unable to satisfy the $38 million in interest and principal due during Fiscal Year 2015.
Even without the evil union workers they wouldn't be able to continue to operate. Good excuse to get rid of the workforce though!
Union is the solution, the problem is the race to the bottom.
Hey, only my wife can call me the problem
It's the unions - It's the CEOs - No wait, it's the Mexicans!
Hilarious shit. Guess what, I've read every comment (now 3 pages) and no one has mentioned INFLATION. Not being able to pass higher prices onto the customer (stated in the article) and the Union's unwillingness to accept lower wages is more than likely what did it.
Thousands of Union workers losing their jobs? You can thank the Federal Reserve and Keynesian Economics. Long live The Bernanke!
Thousands of Union workers losing their jobs? You can thank the Federal Reserve and Keynesian Economics. Long live The Bernanke!
Fool me once..
FROM 2010:
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/12/13/everything-you-need-to-know-about-...
$1.4 billionThe amount A&P paid to buy 141 Pathmark stores in late 2007. That deal, for which A&P took on $475 million in debt, proved to be the beginning of the end for a solvent company.
It listed assets of $2.5 billion and debt of $3.2 billion yesterday in a Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in White Plains, New York.
73The number of “dark store” leases –- shuttered store locations that A&P hasn’t been able to sublease -– that the company is trying to dump as part of the bankruptcy filing. The net rental expense for the dark stores is slated to be $77 million for 2011.
0%The share of A&P’s goods provided by C&S Wholesale Grocers Inc. A&P’s inability to negotiate pricing concessions from C&S played a role in its decision to file for Chapter 11 protection, according to a person familiar with the situation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2010-12-12/a-p-grocery-store-owne...
A bankruptcy is needed to bring costs into line with market reality and shed obligations that include $147 million in pension funding and more than $232 million in liabilities for leases the company doesn’t need and hasn’t been able to escape.
“The combination of falling revenues, a leveraged balance sheet, legacy costs, and unfavorable supply relationships could not be fixed outside of Chapter 11,” Brace said.
Union agreements, including pensions and health care obligations also put the company at a competitive disadvantage and “are unsustainable at existing levels,” he added.
A&P secured $800 million in debtor-in-possession financing from JPMorgan Chase & Co. and will have immediate access to a $187 million loan and $200 million in letters of credit, allowing it to keep stores open, according to the filing.
Gee whiz, which is it?? Corrupt union leadership? Or greedy, self-interested management?? I'm so confused.
Oh wait. I'm not confused. THEY BOTH WORK HAND IN HAND TO LOOT THE COMPANY, AND BUST IT OUT. Leaving shareholders, bond holders, and employees holding the bag.
Crony capitalism benefits by limited labor options. In that, the looting enabled, encouraged and participated in by the government-bankster nexus and their crony partners is the problem and explains Tylers chart above where the non-unionized bear the brunt. The Unionized are, however, party to the Crony looting, since whatever they gain is merely government enabled at the expense of both the consumer and the free flow of labor / quality employees being able to market their efforts to the higest bidder.
But this is such a multifaceted circle jerk of corruption I can understand how its easier to simply say unions are good and non-union gets screwed. Reality is this is just a ton of Kubuki theatre attempting to appear more sophisticated than the dog-eat-dog desperation in Greece, where everyone trys to carve out their own corrupt piece of the pie since the system has pitted us all against eachother as the most elite of the elite confiscate massive amounts of wealth through their highest frauds.
Let's not forget, the fastest growing demographics of the 1% are in Washington D.C. followed by the hub communities of Wall Street. Looting pays. Massive looting pays massively. Indeed.
True, True. But you are still not to the 'root cause' yet....dig further.
I will tell you here, the root cause is a small elite group trying to control the world through .gov/.fed and other organizations. Get rid of this group and institute a truly small government and you will have growth beyond belief.
You too? Oh, I forgot she is now gone and I get to keep the properties...
Sh
Please explain how a solution is an extortion racket whose primary goal is to restrict the supply of labor, which causes unemployment?
Revenue is driven by demand, employment follows revenue (hopefully).
Unions naturally have an incentive to increase the supply of labour, not diminish it. The more members they have, the more their members pull in = the more money they pull in.
Unionized rates:
https://richardbrenneman.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/blog-31-january-lab...
GDP:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/US_GDP_per_capita.PNG
Employment to pop:
https://rwer.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/us-employment-to-population-rat...
Median income adjusted historical:
http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/median-household-i...
Income strat:
https://figures.boundless.com/5852/raw/ncome-share-281913-2008-29.svg
But go on pretending the unions are causing these problems..
"Unions naturally have an incentive to increase the supply of labour, not diminish it. The more members they have, the more their members pull in = the more money they pull in."
Exactly, which is why they resist innovation or work efficiency. You have obviously never worked in a union. They resist anything that actually gets the job done, for exactly your stated reasons....to increase the number of employees required to get the job done.
Granted there are lots of problems for this company to overcome and unions are one piece of it, but to somehow put a positive spin on the union motivations is laughable.
Exactly, which is why they resist innovation or work efficiency. You have obviously have never worked in a union. They resist anything that actually gets the job done, for exactly your stated reasons....to increase the number of employees required to get the job done.
There are obvious pros and cons to workers unions, this would be a potential con, though there are ways to avoid such a potential problem. Germany makes great cars and are very efficient at doing this, yet the autoworkers are almost all unionized. How to square this circle? Unions are brought into the upper levels of corporate hierarchy.
A Chinese wall between management and labour ensures inefficiencies - unionized or not - a problem which seems to persist among much of corporate usa. When management functions as a blind dictatorship loaded up on OPM you get decisons like the above story or this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_Canada
Good luck blaming unions for this clusterfuck of bad MBA ideas:
Unlike Walmart's entry to Canada with the acquisition of the Woolco stores in 1994, Zellers employees were not retained by Target nor Walmart, and they had to re-apply for their position to continue working in their same locations. Target Canada stated that former Zellers workers were guaranteed an interview though not a job, however the United Food and Commercial Workers of Canada complained that many Zellers employees were not hired including those with long years of service.
Target projected for its Canadian operations to bring in ten percent of its profits by 2017. However, experts suggested that it wanted too much and too quickly from Canadians, while underestimating domestic competition.
Target confirmed the list of its locations in July 2012. The chain finalized its 127 stores to open in 2013.Of this total, 125 were converted former Zellers stores
On January 15, 2015, Target Canada announced that it had filed for bankruptcy and that it would close all 133 of its Canadian stores.
The subsidiary was projected to only make a profit by 2021; by 2015, Target had lost $2.1 billion.
Unionism goes hand in hand with socialism and socialism is a perfectly functional system, as most any system is, if adhered to voluntarily. This voluntary submission is dependent upon common goals which typically are much more acceptable if the population is fairly cohesive and non combative. What most of the world lives with and increasingly in these socialist havens, is changing and less than harmonious demographics. Unions can be successful with management when their goal is the success of the business because they all believe they will share in that success. The changing demographics are making that impossible. Unions and corporate masters alike care nothing of their businesses success and only their own....they will happily burn it to the ground to ensure their success. Multiracial, multicultural, multi everything creates an unfocused and largely self destructive society. We have African Americans opposed to Mexican Americans and they opposed the Asian Americans, Muslim Americans, homosexual Americans, all fighting for dominance. Each perception of winning is not in their own success but the loss or failure of another. They compete not to out perform but to diminish the others. Unions that are organized to advance themselves without regard to the costs to others are as destructive as the same thing done by a corporation. There is no conscience to any of their actions and at best they are based on personal greed but unfortunately many are simple revenge.
Dad usually worked for himself. He was about 42, and took a job at a company making electrical insulators. Those big ones you see on power lines.
One of the recurring jobs was to replace bearings in a screw auger. Multiple bearings up the line. It involved a chain over the steel rafters, a chain hoist, about 3 men, 8 hours to do two. Dad did this once. Then he disappeared for a whole day in the fully equipped machine shop, and custom built a jig with screw jacks. It allowed one man to replace a bearing in an hour, no debris falling from the rafters, and very safe.
He is lucky those fat fucking lazy bastard Union fucks did not kill him.
He quit, and that was the last time in a union shop.
Next week, I'll tell you about the flat rate mechanic that went to work for a local
government repair shop, union of course.
Fuck unions. Blackmail for dumb lazy fuckers.
Didn't star that way. The pendulum swings.
Crony capitalism benefits by limited labor options. In that, the looting enabled, encouraged and participated in by the government-bankster nexus and their crony partners is the problem and explains Tylers chart above where the non-unionized bear the brunt. The Unionized are, however, party to the Crony looting, since whatever they gain is merely government enabled at the expense of both the consumer and the free flow of labor / quality employees being able to market their efforts to the higest bidder.
But this is such a multifaceted circle jerk of corruption I can understand how its easier to simply say unions are good and non-union gets screwed. Reality is this is just a ton of Kubuki theatre attempting to appear more sophisticated than the dog-eat-dog desperation in Greece, where everyone trys to carve out their own corrupt piece of the pie since the system has pitted us all against eachother as the most elite of the elite confiscate massive amounts of wealth through their highest frauds.
Let's not forget, the fastest growing demographics of the 1% are in Washington D.C. followed by the hub communities of Wall Street. Looting pays. Massive looting pays massively.
Strength in numbers > Divide and Conquer
.
No?
The problem with both union haters and union worshipers is they tend not to consider the actual details of the union contract. One side hates unions even if the contract is reasonable; the other worships unions as something divine even when their behavior is destructive.
In this case, if the union's worst offense is to protect jobs by seniority, it doesn't seem so bad. Everyone here hates immigrants and immigration, but when a union takes some steps to protect the jobs of middle-aged Americans, y'all hate that too. The alternative is to continuously get rid of employees at mid-career and replace them with either newly graduated philosophy majors or cheap immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Also, I swear I read on ZH before about overcapacity in the retail sector. Certainly it's true where I live -- new supermarkets constantly pop up down the street from old ones; frequent mergers between chains and firesales or closing of old locations; etc. If there is over-capacity someone's gotta lose. It might not mark a systemic problem if someone loses in a situation where someone's gotta lose.
I only hate unions that accept tax dollars extracted from me at gun point to bail them out. Yes correct any fucking union.
I have no problem with collective bargaining. I do have a problem with anyone saying I must employ them and i must pay them the wage they demand. If I can't force them to work for me, they shouldn't be able to force me to employ them. Anyone has the right to ask or even demand anything they want from me and I should have the right to say NO. That's not the way it works though, is it? Instead, if their demands are not met they simply shut their employer down.
Privately held business can easily analyze their numbers and if they can't make the union demands work, they simply shut it down. No point is losing money. With corporations, those left with the decisions on contracts will not ultimately have to live with the results. they can create debt and hide the losses until they are long gone and then one day everyone wakes up, looks around and discovers they are toast.
Like what we see in taxpayer funded union jobs, those who accept these contracts seldom are the ones who have to pay the costs when they all come due. This is why entitlements have become so important as ALL of their costs fall into the future...someone else's future.
That graph Tyler only shows what the private sector should be getting for their work. What pisses people off is the Unions get the fair wage. The living wage.....if Crony Capitalism paid what it should.
But between illegal aliens and the Fascist Corp. / Gov. revolving door, not to mention Wage and Labor Arbitrage with China, the middle class gets screwed.
Are the Unions corrupt? Damn straight and damn skippy. Any more than Corp. / Gov. ? HELL NO !!
Pick your poison. But whose paycheck would you rather have now?
Fair wage? Living wage? Terms with meaning only to those who wield them as a cudgel for their own ends.
"Fair" is a word that should be abandoned past kindergarten. Anyone who uses it past that stage of development should be punched full in the mouth.
Fuck you and your Ayn Rand bullshit.
Fair is fair play. Follow rules that are made in good conscience and fairly upheld for all. Rule of Law. But good Law. Made by fair minded and good people. Accountable people.
You and your law of the jungle. No fairness. No ethics. No morality. That breeds the Tyranny we have now. Which reinforces your warped sense of thinking.
Fuck you. Live in the jungle then and die.
I admit I would be lost in the EBT jungle.
There are no metrics to measure "fairness", it is a construct of your mind, yet YOU want to FORCE your idea of FAIRNESS on the rest of us.
What is happening right now in America is "Fairness" being forced on us by our philosopher kings, the self proclaimed ELITE. You just think if you were in charge it would be BETTER.
Whatever.
Then you need to apply the same fix our forefather's did nearly 250 years ago.
But we're a nation of chickenshits. More guns and more people than all of the services combined. Yet we cower behind our keyboards on ZeroHedge and in the fucking voting booth.
Yeah....you're right asshole......WHATEVER.
Fairness is the cause that drive all collectivists to demand redistribution. Unfortunately markets exist over any period of time so wages, fair or not that cannot be sustained by the market, fail. It probably appears a significant mystery that private union employment has been on a decline for decades....or is it just all of the evil business cronies. Look at small business. Very little cronyism there. How many of those are unionized? Ultimately the only industries with any amount of unionization are those who monopolize their markets, and even then, over any length of time they can't compete. The problem with unions is the same as the problem with big corporations and that is scale and corruption. Those playing one side or another of this game believe the answer is simply more power (which is the mother's milk of corruption) over their competition. If one notes, the one thing unions and large corporations strive for is NO competition. They have but one goal and that is monopoly, and unions are one of the few that are exempted from anti trust laws. When they get what they wish for it usually ends them.
Fairness , mother fucker is every man takes care of his own and the ones that cannot are supported by the church/community . Government does not help anyone, government is responsible for billions of murders.
Jumbotron:
Everything you advocate involves sticking a gun in my face. How about fuck you and your free shit mentality? Hands out of my wallet, parasite.
What a fucking idiot. NO, IT DOES NOT INVOLVE STICKING A GUN TO YOUR FACE.
It means sticking YOUR GUN and MY GUN and EVERYONE'S GUN IN THE FACES OF BOTH THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS FACES WHO SOLD US DOWN THE RIVER BETWEEN THE FUCKING BANKERS, THEIR CRONY CEO FRIENDS AND THE FUCKING WAGE SLAVE LABOR OVERSEAS AND DOWN SOUTH IN COCAINE LAND !!!
What a fucking idiot you are. CHRIST ALMIGHTY....YOUR FUCKING FOREFATHERS DID THAT NEARLY 250 YEARS SO YOU COULD BE FREE ENOUGHT TO SAY THAT STUPID SHIT !!!
Get busy mother fucker.
Like it or not, Americans have had a choice if they bought Sony or Magnavox and they chose Sony, and Magnavox was a union manufacturer. Americans voted to lose their jobs by buying foreign made goods and cheap imported illegal labor.
Sure, absolutely, our politicians and business owners made it an easy choice. But either we are stupid sheep that deserve being treated as such, or we take responsibility for our choices.
Very few are forced to borrow money for a new car or home (or just more crap), but we watch them all claim abuse when their debts are demanded to be paid.
So exactly WHO are you going to stick your gun in the face of??? The people doing stupid self destructive things are those who enable them, because there is a seemingly endless supply of both as history transparently illustrates.
Very few are forced to borrow money for a new car or home (or just more crap), but we watch them all claim abuse when their debts are demanded to be paid.
Yes, but what about those who make poor choices in lending the money (profiting handsomely I should add)? Rarely hear about them! Yet, mysteriously when shit goes sideways the lenders tend to always get bailed out as a matter of course and soon after continue to issue credit just as recklessly as before.
All bad choices will be reconciled. We have evolved law that provides certain rights to lenders and as they are loaning the money, its their rules to make. Those who borrow...or beg, naturally have much fewer rights than those who voluntarily lend. Bad choices have been made on all sides and while lending laws have become much more progressive (at least we don't have official debt servitude or debtor prison) lenders can't get blood from a stone and will take their losses. The problem is encapsulated in credit cards where those costs of loan default are levered upon debtors who do manage to pay their bills in the form of higher interest. To suggest that lenders take their losses makes as much sense as suggesting that government shortfalls onloy require higher taxes on the rich. As we are the customers, all costs will be borne by us. Lenders dont lose. The thing we should be concerned about is WHY there is so much debt, not about finding more humane ways of dealing with default. Doing so only ensures even more will find themselves in debt when we should be looking at fundamental causes for lousey jobs or none at all. We need self awareness, not more governance. We need to be informed of the risks and allow consequences provide a tactile education. Granting more power to elite to protect us like livestock will only produce more livestock...which suites the elite perfectly. It only reinforces their biases toward us that have been growing since their inception of social security when they publicly stated that only THEY could ensure our old age security as we were not CAPABLE. We either are or are not CAPABLE. If not then we should save our breath complaining about freedom. Cattle have none.
I don't think people bought Sony over Magnavox necessarily because it was cheaper, Japanese companies in general make better electronics and automobiles. I would say people's preference to Honda or Toyota over Ford is because American cars are engineered like dogshit. Sony probably made better TV's.
The Japanese have an interesting culture. They will work themselves to death for the benefit of the company/country.
So you buy shitty American products or lose your job.
I heard all of these arguments back in the seventies. Everybody screaming about job loss and how Japan was kicking our ass, while they went out and bought Toyotas. People actually working in US car plants buying imports. And then screaming like mad when their job was eliminated. Japan relied heavily on automation which enhanced quality and profits while America unions fought automation. Our actions have costs, and they always make sense in the short run. There is a reason why the devils contract comes payable at death and not at time of signing. People who want to live as though their choices have no longer term costs are committing suicide for themselves and their children. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and you will probably make the trip in a Toyota getting great mileage. Enjoy it while it lasts. The credit bubble that allowed our self destructive idiocy has all but come to an end.
IMHO, even if they automated the American made cars process more the cars would still end up like shit because they are poorly designed.
I agree 1000% Civilization embraces the concept of "fair". It requires an understanding and an intent to do good in transactions with others through honesty.
Fairness has been raped, buttfucked, shit on and skewed by this trash that calls itself conservetive when, in fact they are, on the whole, menial, uneducated, lying, cheating bible-thumping, criminal vermine slime that uses nice clothes and pretty words to hide their sickenning greed.
The American people hate your fucking guts Demopublican filth. America needs a clean slate and to get rid of this scum that calls itself government. NO one drop of Honor there anymore. No wonder the WORLD HATES US! It's not really US they hate, it's you they hate along with the rest of freedom loving Americans.
You NSA should be dropped into a cess pool where you ALL FUCKING BELONG YOU STINKING PIECES OF SHIT!
There needs to be, in my view, wholesale arrest of the US CONgress and charges of treason when the dirty deals are all uncovered. They are like rats hiding from the light.
FUCKING TRAITOROUS TRASH!
Co-opted the Rule of Law into the RULE OF THE murderous gang with the guns. Fuck you!
You mean after thousands of years we suddenly discovered that people seek out and deliberately take advantage of the weak and simple minded. Who could have thought such a thing!
The funny thing is that it is ALWAYS fairness that is the common theme of EVERY tyrant who seeks to gather the damaged weak and simple minded under their banner and convert them into their army of madness.
Any thinking person understands that the only sustainable, non violent, FAIR existence is one where our population IS NOT majority weak and simple minded people. If we can not learn, teach, demonstrate the values and standards that sustain a fair world, a world where each is intelligent enough to be their own keeper, and not require FORCE to act in their own interest, then we are fucked for all time. We cannot create ANY form of government that uses force and collective power that will not corrupt and self destruct.
Brilliant, Oldwood.
Incredible confession of ignorance offered freely, no less.
Union guys get laid off too, probably quicker, in slowing manufacturing and production at any rate.
Hostess is an extreme, but perfect, example.
No chance of recovery for the brothers there.
On top of the higher wages, quite a few unions enjoy Obamacare exemptions via decree from our beloved leader.
What about all these PE pricks who get the firms to issue debt and then pay themselves dividends? The .01%ers get theirs no matter what while the rest of you debate union vs non union choices. Fing pathetic
If by CBA you are referring to Cost Benefit Analysis, there is an irrelevant group that has put that antique on the shelf, next to realistic ROI.
J'accuse le MBA
Isn't A&P backed by Puerto Rico Aqueduct bonds?
Cramer said A&P was good as gold, so I put all my retirement money into them.
It's MY money and I want it NOW.
its the recovery, stupid
Yea, you know.......it's that thing where they recover anything you ever thought you fucking owned! You know recovered. And now you want something back?
OHHHHHH, OK>>>>>>
Well, i just checked in the back the all they have left is Dick and bubble gum, and they just ran out of bubble gum! ZZZZZZZZIIIIIPPPPPPPPPP......Open Wide, Citizen! Yer government loves to serve you!
A corporation that old must have humungous dead weight overhead.
They've been bought and sold more times than many street corner whores, I doubt there is any one over twenty five left.
When you can sell a overpriced house easier then an overpriced 4 lb rib roast, you know we're phu*ked.
And why can't workers collectively bargain for working conditions, pay, benefits etc.. Oh, they aren't ceos, celebrities and sports stars.
If everyone was in a union and received the same "fair wage" There'd be no advantage to being in the union. Union advantage only works because other people who aren't in the union are forced to wait on them at wages below the union members wage.
Put it another way; Bill Gates $60 billion would be virtually worthless if everybody else had $60 billion.
I agree. I was United Steel Workers way back making flare stacks for refineries.
Made me see what shit it would be like without a union
And the union meetings at the local tavern were the best!
I think it helped create a stronger team culture on the job too.
Soon they will have a lot of time on their hands for the meetings at the local tavern. They may need to wash dishes to pay for the beer though. Yeah, unions are great.
UAW slit our throats at Horseheads.
Not uncommon.
My work is related to the grocery business and I can say there are very troubling trends now that weren't an issue a year ago.
please delineate them so I can get enlightened
There are a lot of negative trends accelerating - one of which are brand erosion / pricing control - after 60 years of advertising being somewhat effective for prepared foods - women are finally getting the message they are killing their kids with chemicals and sugar -
one category - cereal is a disaster - pricing went thru the roof ten years ago when they thought that they could control the meal - at breakfast - the sugar overload has resulted in a flight to "other" - women are controlling finally what the kids eat - the effect is huge price erosion and it is spreading to other categories - margins are getting killed - coupled with chains controlling shelf space more effectively - it is high cost effort to bring an item / sku to market
middle class devastation can be seen for many safe products
There are a lot of negative trends accelerating - one of which are brand erosion / pricing control - after 60 years of advertising being somewhat effective for prepared foods - women are finally getting the message they are killing their kids with chemicals and sugar -
I hope you are right
I have and use a small cookbook from the sugar manufacturers that explains how good sugar is for me. The recipe for pizza dough contains 1/2 teaspoon of sugar. There is no aluminium dioxide? listed in the recipe.
"My work is related to the grocery business and I can say there are very troubling trends now that weren't an issue a year ago."
I think he means consolidation. The Big Fish eating up the smaller fish.
It's cost cutting. It's the same in electronics. An entire computer with CPU, GPU, Northbridge and Southbridge (think modem, sound chip, memory controller, voltage regulator, etc, etc,) now resides on one chip. You're cell phone has the power of a supercomputer from the year 2000. And it fits in the palm of your hand for $299 instead of $2,999,999.00.
However...unlike that nice example which had many benefits for consumers, M&A, Consolidation, Bankruptcies in the business world can mean....and is now showing itself to be the case over the last decade....a sign of brittleness in the system. Energy costs going up, cost of acquiring raw materials ( from food stock to live stock to raw manufacturing materials, etc. etc. ) is going up, labor costs going up, etc. etc.
Why? Inflation. Because of Fed money printing. Hell.....money printing the WORLD over.
Yet...wages stagnant to declining and in some cases collapsing. So....prices have to DEFLATE where they can to compensate for the decrease in descretionary spending by the consumer. Which means, if you ain't big enough for economies of scale to kick in......you aint' going to make it. Particularly if you have high operating costs.
That's it. That's all. And it doesn't look to end anytime soon. This is what James Howard Kunstler refers to as "The Long Emergency". In other words......a slow motion collapse.
Which could get out of hand.
Great Post Jumbotron!!!!!!!
Which means, if you ain't big enough for economies of scale to kick in.
there is a way around this. another poster said "every man should be his own buisness" he has no idea how right he is. It is the way this country was founded.
40 years ago, when I had the wisdom of youth, I was my own business. after a long carreer through many opportunities and businesses which forced me to give away most of my income, I am again my own buiseness. As a single owner/worker the economies of scale are working for me very well. On a per hour basis i make a six figure income. I work as many hours as I feel necesary and I don't have to split my income with anyone. By anyone, I mean anyyyyyone. Leeches included.
There is a way to take back your share of the country and the pie. It makes unique use of the economies of the scale of one. On a scale of one you can be invisible to the the blood suckers. Cash makes you King.
.gov would call me "An Army of One".
KPrime:
Good for you! However, The White House Administrations (read Regimes) of the past fifteen years or so are probably the most small business UNfriendly since at least Roosevelt.
Excellent thesis Jumbotron.....
That is a good summary but not what I was thinking. The issue is that quality of food offered at supermarkets like AP has taken a nosedive. Consumers are not stupid. You see huge stores paying massive union wages but what's inside? Garbage. Try innovating a food product that's great and you will never see it in supermarkets, Walmart, Costco, forget it. Innovation in food has died. It's dead. And stores like this are trying to force feed mass produced crap onto customers. The whole fairy tale of buy local support the little farmer is a page in the history books. Whole Foods is just as bad. I could go on about it. The quality of food in stores is getting rotten in every country. Not just USA. Now you take out California and what's next ? There was optimism in the food business in the recent past but now there are only mega corps making the food, like never before. As an insider I can tell you. Support any local coop you can. The huge store chains, including Costco, can't possibly deliver quality.
Since around '09 or so, quality of food served in restaurants has deteriorated even more than food offered in supermarkets. I'm so tired of overpaying for shit food in 90% of the restaurants I've been to since since then. I'm no food snob either.
As a result, I eat out less than once a month.
+100 both of you. But that does dovetail in to the increasing scarcity argument and also to the economies of scale that mass industrialized farming brings to the table. And almost 100% of the time, if it's industrialized and mass produced, it's shit.
But that keeps the cost down.
Wait....let me back that statement up a bit. That sounded a bit like our politicians who say the "deficit" shrank. No it didn't. It's just the RATE OF INCREASE went down a percent or two. Same with our food. Quality goes down.....prices rise only modestly compared to quality grown, harvest and processed food.
At least the quality of our food when it comes to food born illness is going up.
Oh....wait.
I would not buy stock in a company that sells food which consumers really do not want. Mass supermarkets are on the way out, if you believe in the free market. For now they keep getting worse.
Round and round the "Bulls Eye" goes. Where it ends, nobody knows....
Except it always picks on the high costs.
Labor is just a cost, get used to your role in the world.
When A&P started, they had no competition. Unions aside, they were more likely crushed by more efficient competition such as Walmart.
Again with the Germans!
Kraut is OK with me.
A^P was my paper sack lunch when I was in Gradeschool..my mother was a drunk..so she would give me a dollar or call the school to give me a dollar to go to the A^P 5 blocks away from my school and eat at the small counter they had inside...I could buy a MaidRite hamburger..potato chips and a Green River drink....have no idea what that was but it was good...for 98 cents...I left the 2 cents for a tip....I still have no problem eating alone at a restaurant to this day....I was always sitting next to truck drivers or whatever...I was the only KID....loved it though..
That is fucking freaky, dude. My mom was a fucking drunk as well. Sometimes she sent me to school with a fucking bag with a tin of soup in it. Many times she sent me to school with fuck all. Thus, I learned to take care of myself at a young age. Washing dishes...delivering papers....you name it....anything to get the hell out of that shithole.
I had my first apartment when I was 17. Prepaid 6 months so the landlord would overlook the fact that I was not 18.
Shitty thing is....try doing that today as a young kid. Next to impossible.
I wonder how many of us here have backgrounds like this? I was on my own at 16, did not look 16, no one needed a driver's license to give me a lease. Even had more than one job at more than one bar. What I left at home had booze involved as well, and other stuff I won't talk about, I bet you won't either about yours.
I consider the background issue because I think if you have not lived on the edge (I had to drop out of college for a while because I could not make working and school happen together), you don't know that poor and collapse can really happen. We do. We gravitate to this kind of information because we know we can be up again and down again and that there is no guarantee things will stay good, just because they are good now.
I know this is true for me. I have never had so much as I have now. No debt, good job, etc. But I don't take it for granted it will stay this way. I think that makes folks like us pragmatic. Others call us doomers, I call us realists.
Great post. I would guess there are a good number of ZHers with stories that are very similar. Once you have witnessed shit first hand it is easier to accept that shit will happen again. My concern is for the youth of today. What the fuck can they do to escape? Good fucking luck having an apartment, car, food in the fridge and such during times like this when you are just a fucking kid who is trying to do the right thing.
My guess is that at least a slight majority of us here are the same demographic, Early Gen-X'ers and the first of the "Latch-Key Kids" Also explains the libertarian streak a bit.
Guilty. Early GenXer.
born 1964.
Some call me the last of the Baby Boomers.
Some call me the first GenXer.
I like 60's and 70's music and I'm old enough now to tell my kids I used to have to trudge through the snow for 5 miles to get to school and yell at the other kids down the road to get off my lawn.
All the while I'm texting my friend, waiting for my code to compile so I can send it out over encrypted Wi-Fi to then hop it over several cell towers so it can worm itself into the Fed's computers and blow that fucker up.
It's a "Fire Sale".....all the while I'm listening to Hendrix.
For my birth state....."Peace in Mississippi"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b7H1BBC0-M
Top posts of the bajillion that I've ever read.
I don't post much, but I've read all your comments over the years MsCreant and I have to say, knowing a woman like you exists helps me sleep at night.
It's amazing how this website attracts a certain character type, which I believe has existed throughout the history of humanity. Possibly, we were all raised under certain initial conditions (my own were harrowing, but certainly character forming, luckily for me they ultimately pushed me away from alcoholism), and yet we have somehow survived our ordeals and have been made better by them. Yet, we distinguish ourselves as 'realists' and 'pragmatists' all while being called doomers, simply because we believe in natural limits to exponential growth?
It is preposterous that we feel it necessary to defend our assertions. Reality is our guide. We seek the truth because we know it will set us free. We are the archetype philosphers, utilizing internal/external Socratic dialogue, pushing ourselves and our world to a precipice (or website) where we can amuse in our collective folly and take stock of our collective wisdom.
Cheers!
ginsu2k
Absolutely amazing. Similar here but no drugs or alcohol involved. My mother was violently insane. We managed while my dad was alive but when he died, we lost everything. At twenty I was trying to support her, my brother and my grandmother in a small apartment. Trying to keep her from beating her mother and my brother while I worked and went to school was difficult. He almost successfully blew his brains out. Thankfully I got the gun away. I managed barely to keep us fed and pay the bills. I could not leave them. Finally at 22 with my grandmother dead and my brother safe at college, I escaped with the help of Mr Miffed. She died a few years ago institutionalized, certified mentally insane. I hadn't seen her for 25 years.
It's funny how coming from a difficult childhood has given me such resilience and self determination when others descended into depression and drugs. For many years I fought angry demons that haunted me which I have dealt. Unfortunately, the physical scars are permanent.
I certainly appreciate everything I have so much more then if I had lived a more sheltered life. When my brother and I review our past we can say that our lives today make all the horror worth it and he is so thankful he didn't succeed in killing himself.
Just having a home that is happy, food in the cupboard and a beautiful sunset is enough for contentment.
Miffed
Love that story. That's America, self reliance and ability to adapt. That's real America, not the whiny gimmedats.
Yeah cause by now I can't stomach any more bad news from anyone.
I had to wait tables at a black resturant in Queens.
story of A^P was in the early 60s....now all the schools have cafeterias...I worked in my cafeteria in Junior high...you got two free lunches...I loved it ...but you get shit on by your classmates....yes I learned to make my own breakfast and soon dinners....I am a good cook now...and I can clean my own clothes too....pretty self relient at an eayly age.....I had work since I was 7 years old...
So, that will be two orders of fried chicken, two orders of ribs.....one with mayo ont he side, two Hamburger delux 4 orders of chitlins and 6 grape drink?
I was a member of the UFCW in my senior year in high school back in the late 80's. I think I was pulling in abut $15 an hour to push shopping carts, bag groceries and stock shelves. At the time...I thought....this is fucking insane! After my exhausting 6 hour shift....SARC...I delivered pizzas and made close to the same per hour with tips.
There were guys that fucked the dog all day and still puilled in $15 per hour moving the odd cart and shoving some tampons on the shelves. Truely fucked up.
And lawyers and doctors making $50/hour.
Sounds about right to me; unless you want a completely fucked up economy and gazillions in government debt. Oh wait....
I call Bullshit, I worked at Pathmark for 20 years and no part timer made the money you talk about. It was 50 cents over minimum wage as a starting salary for a part timer. Also there were no grocery baggers in those days as all the registers were scan and bag as you see in every retail establishment now. Most people working in these stores work every holiday on the calendar cause idiots like you forgot to buy a fucking turkey until thanksgiving morning and then cursed because all that was left were frozen ones. 5 years ago A&P ass raped their employees by loweing their pay and taking away earned time off and still it was not enough. The resason they are going under is cause their stores are dirty shitholes that nobody wants to shop in.
Hey, fuckhead. Late 80s....Safeway. No scanners. The cashiers actually had to read the prices and punch them into the register. $15 bucks an hour is what I got paid to work 4 shifts a week for 24 hours total. You seem like a fucking retard....so...normally I would have not replied. However, you questioned my honesty so I felt somewhat obliged to defend myself.
Ther rest of your post is undirected shit which does not warrant a reply.
For the record I think you're full of shit too. Mid to late 90's at A&P $5.05 an hour. 9011-code for bananas. I had to memorize the produce codes, excuse me while I go cry my eyes out. I was in the worthless supermarket union as well.
"Hey, fuckhead. Late 80s....Safeway. No scanners. The cashiers actually had to read the prices and punch them into the register. "
LOL. That is quite skilled labor.
You bitches were rolling in cash.
Started lifeguarding in '81' for $2.25/hour. Minimum wage didnt apply to seasonal work.
Became manager in '84 making $5.00 hour.
Best years of my life.
I r tule
--moonman
I was UFCW for a few years as a teenager as well. Being a union member was mandatory, or you get fired. They sucked their 10-15 cents per hour out of my paycheck every week. I also could not get a raise except on their schedule, and the only criteria was time served. ie +$1/hr for every 9 months of service or whatever, despite the fact that I was 3-4 times more productive than the old coots who had been there forever and were just going through the motions so they could get their pensions.
Think CEOs are corrupt leeches? Try shop stewards & union bosses...
Unions: total scam.
No sure where you worked...however..during my stint there was a bulk foods section. You know...the kind where you pick what you want and toss into a plastic bag. Anyhow, my boss said...do not bother bringing a lunch...just head to the bulk foods section and fill up a bag of whatever....after that go grab a coke from the cooler.
Afterward, at the pizza place they would throw out all the unused dough at the end of the day. I asked my boss if I could make a pure dough pizza and take it home and use if for bread . He said....yeah....that is great idea. The guy gave me a raise a week later. No shit.
I too was in the UFCW, albeit in the mid '90's, and aside from the overnight stockers who got a shift premium, the only people who made near $15/hr had been working there >10 years.
Could be, Dixie
All I know is that where I worked everybody was in on the con. Not sure why but the guys who worked the produce section got paid the most. They would sit in the back and smoke cigarettes all day. Again, this was the 80s when the UFCW had a shitload of power which has since vanished. For fucks sake the store manager used to walk out with a carton of smokes and a side of beef on a weekly basis. Nobody fucking cared.
I didn't add my anecdote to necessarily negate yours, I hope you can see that. I'm currently in a union, and I can't stand it. The work rules and hosility of "labor" vs. "company" is absolutely soul-crushing. Not only that but avery aspect of working, from appearance, to tardiness, to slacking on the job, and work performance inevitably goes to the lowest common denominator. There are absolute SLOTHS that I am forced to "work" alongside. They sleep >40% of their shift. And no one can do anything about it. I hate it. I have an exit plan and am working it.
An alternative to the Union lunacy would be the boom of the southern auto corridor.
http://www.southernautocorridor.com
Because they wouldn't give people a 10% discount for scanning and bagging their own groceries?
But seriously, it isn't unions, it's the corporate M.B.A. vampires sucking companies into the grave.
Sears is an example, but there are many others. Vampirism is the new U.S. business model.
BING-FUCKING-O!
I can't believe you said that it is all the slime ball yuppie scum MBAs that fucked up everything.
Die yuppie scum!!
It's both the scum sucking I got mine CYA unions AND the MBA vampires.
Poor management has run retail companies like Sears and JCPenney into the ground.
For Sears, that would be Eddie Lampert, while Ron Johnson would be credited for running Penney aground.
Sears’ CEO is a hedge fund manager with limited retail experience. Prior to Lampert’s taking the title, there had been several other CEO’s appointed and dismissed by him. He is similar to Penney’s Johnson in that he made strategic decisions based on intuition rather than referencing marketing research data.
Nice catch on the MBA s. What the fuck are they teaching those people?
Fire somebody/anybody.
Dow 20,000.
Let them eat cake.....made by an illegal at Wal-Mart.
Is the CEO a billionaire? Don't get me wrong. I don't think there is a union out there that isn't as much a problem as the overpaid chiefs.
It seems to me that a CEO and a Union would have the same interests. That is, make as much money as they can. but the two douches try to steal from each other, instead of producing a great product that would benefit them both.
Fuck em both. Every man should be his own business.
I was aware that the parent company (A&P) of my local SuperFresh had declared bankruptcy. I hope this most recent bankruptcy doesn't end its existance. I like my local SuperFresh and do my weekly grocery shopping there. I prefer it over the alternatives; Giant and Walmart.
well check here for the early returns:
http://blogs.wsj.com/bankruptcy/2015/07/20/which-ap-stores-are-closing/
The one by me is closing (DE) which is a shame b/c every now and then some bum would come in to my old watering hole and offer to sell Pathmark steaks that he had stolen down the street. Meat is absurdly expensive these days.
Heard that Stop & Shop made an unsolicitated merger big - but when told that the new entity would go by the name 'Stop & P' - A&P opted to sh*t the bed instead.
Stop and Shop is Dutch owned ...AHOLD.
In Australia they are called Shop and Stop. Odd huh?
It's Stop 'n Rob in the local ghettos...
I don't understand. I thought everything was awesomer.
Yeah.....and I see pigs have the ability to fly as well. ;)
It's one of the oldest company tricks around; go into bankruptcy and walk away from your commitments while blaming anyone but yourselves. Just wait and see who buys it for a knockdown price...
Why would anyone shop at Assholes and Pussy?
Maybe they just finished shopping at Dicks Sporting goods?
@douchboy2015
I see you are still around ,Butch. Not caught up in the sympathetic Greek rioting yet?
Doncha worry , your Islamic brothers will pick up your slack.
Gee Wilikers!!
I wonder out of curiosity, how well "upper management" made out the last five years? How many EPS (expensively purchased shares), were made in stock buybacks, if any, stock options, golden parachutes and non-GAAP accounting, might have contributed to the demise of A&P? Surely, it couldn't be ALL the unions fault...Downarrow away. :)
Everything is going according to the grand central plan.
Squelch the non-believers.
12 Locals under 35 collective bargaining agreements...???
No doubt mostly legacy CBA from the 50's, 60's & 70's.
Yeah, good luck with that up against an Ahold or Wallyworld - or even Target.
I though A&P was dead and buried a long time ago. I gotta get out more.
8 different subsidies means different contracts. Pathmark has a different contract than Waldbaums. They also differ by state. Then add in the different unions within the store (meat, cashiers, pharmacists).
Depression Lessons
The media is painfully, obviously run by juveniles, who believe that herding up into a majority provides a competitive information advantage, that by controlling the narrative of History, always a false assumption that an irrational market can outlast all individual investors, ensures something other than repetition and redundancy, the latest fad and associated advertising income. Middle classes com and middle classes go, accordingly, copying the behavior right out of the womb, calling the process public education.
What passes for science, politics and religion in the public eye has always been superstition, data specifically collected to confirm false assumptions, whatever hair-brained scheme the monkeys come up with next, to entertain themselves, to 'live' large. This Internet bubble, like the last, has merely increased income inequality and the number on food stamps, with a new cast of actors, Facebook instead of MySpace. The only difference between margin drug dealers at the central banks , feeding their respective majorities, is the timing of natural resource exploitation, the location in rotation.
What your children learn on the playground is far more important than anything they learn in the classroom. The answer to how you play in an increasingly crowded HR sandbox is to build a sandbox somewhere else. Children aren't dolls in a sandbox, but you will never convince the majority otherwise. Poverty isn't an accident; it's a choice to comply with the false choice of empire, masters and slaves, in a circular firing squad.
Contrary to popular mythology, a portfolio of mythologies can only increase consumption, as evident in all the budgets, so debt relief for consumers in the actuarial ponzi will fair no better than any other remedy, proposed by accountants, the problem always posing as the solution. That much the German bank knows, which plays last-to-lose, and always loses, only to restart the game in another location. The rockstars win only to lose, and with their latest masterpiece, infrastructure globalization, find themselves trapped, along with all the other nation/states, in a virtual economy that produces nothing, but self-absorption.
The old, old-timers, who have largely passed away, used to say that when the State destroys the family with Family Law, the country itself will be destroyed, because that is the lesson of economic depression. Productive individuals don't accept arbitrary credit and debt, which is all the bank ever has, consumer credit reports and sunk cost collateral held by institutions notwithstanding. Tall Paul is correct, that commercial lines of credit must be re-introduced for small business, but labor will accept nothing but a system of anonymous money, for what by now should be obvious reasons.
From the perspective of capital, labor is money and money is margin, so the point of technology is to replace labor, on the assumption that one warm body is as good as another, until they can all be replaced, which the middle class is more than happy to accept, so long as debt, which is never repaid, is issued to buy the toys, in an artificial world of make-work, aspiring to leisure. From the perspective of labor, real estate is money and money is margin.
Capital leverages up and collapses accordingly, with artificial real estate inflation embedded in every layer, all resting on Family Law, regardless of religion, political affiliation, or pseudo-science. The fact that transsexuals can get a contract for marriage and take other people's children, impoverished for the purpose, tells you where you are in the empire cycle. Government isn't in the business of licensing monopolies by accident, and if the McCains are not quite careful, they are going to upend the entire US Navy.
Funny thing about entrepreneurs like Donald Trump; they keep poking and prodding. The US has always been a top-down, centrally-controlled concern. The fact and its failure is only becoming obvious to the majority now because measured natural resources per capita are depleted, the majority is incapable of sustaining reproduction, and all it knows is capital control. Get your kids one of those empire natural resource atlases and they can skip public education all together, except to collect arbitrary pieces of paper with 10% of their time, to keep the busy-workers busy.
Even now, the critters surround my unborn child, thinking that they are going to shoot me, employing my oblivious wife as bait, because she believes in mercy. One of the parents is always going to be the bad guy, under the law, and there is always a politician running out in front of the mob. That's the job. Not so ironically, the critters can't make their technology work, and so must replace it at greater cost and increasing frequency. Labor or Act of Stupidity, the choice is always yours.
What really happened at the Hanoi Hilton, why is the VA a rat hole, and what do they have in common? That's it; throw another rock from a glass house. Funny, how time duration between cause and effect shortens up when you have kids, when it is far to late to change your habits.
Interesting. Can you repeat that?
Decent rant for a geezer, at least the first 2/3 of it.
Those idiots heading up the local unions forgot that their members work at a private company and as such do not benefit from the bottomless pit of money the public sector unions now enjoy. Good luck to you, dumb shits. Next time work for the goverment.....at least until some politician with cajones cancels all public sector unions once and for all.
food is so over rated.......
Would this qualify as "green shoots" Paging LIESman
Before you start spouting off about unions. Let's prosecute the criminal FRAUD taking place at the top of all financial transactions, the FRAUD that has turned capitalism into fascisim and is now threatening to destroy the entire planet. Then if you like work your way back to a time when unions entered into the supply and demand models.
Arrest Lloyd Blankfein.
I think this TPP monster will essentially be a collective bargain agreement between klepto corporations designed to drive down the cost of labor everywhere. Public unions blow, anybody with a good paying union job in the private sector good for you. Get as much as you can, you know the management slobs do.
I don't think anyone can argue that unions were responsible for the vast majority of building the middle class prosperity in the usa. But the crony capitalist system bought the government and with the decline in membership so goes the middle class. Illegal immigration, offshoring, and general apathy have destroyed the american workforce.People don't give a shit about their jobs and employers don't give a shit about their employees. A circular firing squad
Bingo.
When you're just a cog in the Corporate Wheel, able to be replaced at a moment's notice with no recourse, people after a while tend to just say fuck it.
Which....now that I am thinking about it.....could we witness sort of an organic John Gault moment here in the next couple of decades?
I mean....with weed being legal and no one with any loyalty anymore to anyone.....could we see a ground swell of both people who really do "Turn on, Tune in and Drop out" along side people going back to the land for subsistence farming and just checking out of the system?
Talk amongst yourselves. But I do feel it rising in me. Not the urge to blow my mind out with weed.....but just saying fuck it...and staying here on my 5 acres of heaven and just farming the shit out of it.
Didn't we already try this in the sixties? I'm not aware of any communes that proved very successful. I don't think Galt's gulch was premised on smoking weed and kicking back. It was about people working for their own advancement in a voluntary market place where they were not punished for their intelligence and hard work. I think most people get the greatest satisfaction from accomplishment and not simply money. I'll have to take their word for it as I don't have all that much money but I do get a lot of sense of accomplishment designing and building custom furniture.
I started down exactly that track in the mid 70s (the farm , that is) ; I'm still doing it , and it has proved to be a resilient business which is extremely satisfying.
The important thing was to take control ; of expenditure and product prices received i.e. move up the value chain.
If you have a good business head , it's a nice way to live. You will end up in possession of a hard asset , namely food-producing land far from the rat-race.
The commune thing ?
Just call it a farm community that sees the importance of building capital ; economic , environmental and social capital
This is another example of what happens when you allow an immoral bargaining position (i.e. allow an employee to be booted from their job out of the blue) to be written in stone. If the nation were to submit, as it once did and prospered, to the fixed moral standards given to all mankind for his good.
Article: in one word, unions.
Truth: in two words, unions and DEBT.
One of the most utterly amazing and absurd practices in modern financial reporting (and financial thought) is to ignore the following FACT.
Any corporation that carries significant debt is at a great disadvantage against every competitor that has no debt.
I would think this is obvious, but virtually nobody ever mentions this. But in practice, the advantage of no debt (much less savings to draw upon) is THE way to be a healthy and competitive company. Of course that's not enough, one needs to be frugal, efficient, prudent, creative and wise too.
I'm not saying unions as they are today aren't a problem. They are. Though employees have every right to form unions, the fact laws exist to support unions is totally wrong and a huge problem. As such, if I ever managed a business large enough to have a union, I'd take every measure necessary to assure they gain no leverage over me or my business. No way would I ever let anything but merit determine hiring, firing and pay.
A&P should have done the right thing. Crush the Union (ex. 2-Tier wage/benefit offer), make all employees Part-Time to ensure nobody earns anything close to a living wage (Walmart discovered a long time ago that the state will take up the slack).
What the hell have Unions ever done except give us an 8-hour day, weekends off, etc. Assholes.
What have unions given us?
Well, in the case of public sector unions, they have given us a special class of citizen who receives bloated pay, costly taxpayer funded benefits, and crushing debt in the form of pensions that private sector employees could only dream about. Teachers unions have given us stupid kids. Police unions have given us a violent, armed gang that gets away with murder. The list goes on...
Big difference between unions 60 years ago and unions today. Don't be confused.
They managed to turn the manufacturing envy of the history of humanity into modern day Detroit.
What did I win?
I get so tired of that "Unions gave us weekends!" bullshit.
No, actually since my business is not union, I give myself and employees weekends off, no union twisted my arm
. Do you really think any company gives their employees time off in honor of some 1920's union they aren't even a part of?
Unions also supported discrimination, I guess any company that discriminates based on skin color is just paying homage to Unions.
I recommend you research the term "Norms." When one business was forced to give weekends off, the other had to follow suit or their skilled laborers may go somewhere else. If companies had their choice, people would work around the fucking clocks for no further pay. Before unions people worked longer hours for shit pay.
Sorry, but most of the bigger grocery chains around here are unionized.
I've never been in a store so poorly run as an A&P/SuperFresh or whatever they are calling themselves this week. As bad as the unions may be, A&P management culture is a loser.
In the Washington D.C. area, they are soon to be followed by Giant Food. Giant was grown into an indomitable empire in this region by Israel Cohen who knew what service and quality meant. As he stepped away, various corporate entities run by ignorant beancounters and lawyers (currently Royal Ahold, a.k.a. Royal A-holed)have irreparably tarnished the name. They are driving into the ground this once-great company that virtually kicked Safeway's ass out of here. And the unions still can't get decent pay or fair treatment for incoming workers, though they sure collect those dues. (I don't work there, I just shop there 'cause it's them or Walmart, or sensory-overload Wegmans.)