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Greek Prime Minister Asked Putin For $10 Billion To "Print Drachmas", Greek Media Reports
Back in January, when we reported what the very first official act of open European defiance by the then-brand new Greek prime minister Tsipras was (as a reminder it was his visit of a local rifle range where Nazis executed 200 Greeks on May 1, 1944) we noted that this was the start of a clear Greek pivot away from Europe and toward Russia.
We further commented on many of the things that have since come to pass:
Europe, for one, will be most displeased that Greece has decided to put its people first in the chain of priority over offshore bidders of Greek assets. Most displeased, especially since the liquidation sale of Greece is part of the Greek bailout agreement: an agreement which as the Troika has repeatedly stated, is not up for renegotiation
But most importantly, even back then we explicitly said that in order for Greece to preserve its leverage (something it found out the hard way it did not have 6 months later), it would need a Plan B, one that involves an alternative source of funds, i.e., Russia and/or China, which could be the source of the much needed interim cash Greece needs as it prints its own currency and prepares for life outside the European prison.
The Germans were not happy: A German central banker warned of dire problems should the new government call the country's aid program into question, jeopardizing funding for the banks. "That would have fatal consequences for Greece’s financial system. Greek banks would then lose their access to central bank money," Bundesbank board member Joachim Nagel told Handelsblatt newspaper.
Well, maybe.... Unless of course Greece finds a new, alternative source of funding, one that has nothing to do with the establishmentarian IMF, whose "bailouts" are merely a smokescreen to implement pro-western policies and to allow the rapid liquidation of any "bailed out" society... Which naturally means that now Russia (and China) are set to become critical allies for Greece, which would immediately explain the logical pivot toward Moscow.
Somewhat jokingly, on June 27, the day after Tsipras announced the shocking referendum decision, we repeated precisely this:
Dear Greece, if you want to apply for a loan from the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, send an email to: information@aiibank.org
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) June 28, 2015
As it turns out, none of this was a joke, and, if Greek newspaper "To Vima" is to be trusted, a "Plan B" involving an emergency $10 billion loan from Vladimir Putin which would be used to fund a new Greek currency, is precisely what Greece had been contemplating!
According to Greek Reporter, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has asked Russian President Vladimir Putin for 10 billion dollars in order to print drachmas.
In other words, if true, then Greece did just as we said it should: approach Russia and the BRICs with a request for funding to be able to exit Europe's gravitational pull...
The newspaper report cited Tsipras saying in his last major interview to Greek national broadcaster ERT that “in order for a country to print its own national currency, it needs reserves in a strong currency.”
... however, somewhat surprisingly, both Moscow and Beijing said no:
Moscow’s response was a vague mention of a 5-billion-dollar advance on the new South Stream natural gas pipeline construction that will pass through Greece. Tsipras also sent similar loan requests to China and Iran, but to no avail, the report said.
The report continues:
Tsipras was planning the return to the drachma since early 2015 and was counting on Russia’s help to achieve this goal. According to the report, Panos Kammenos, Yiannis Dragasakis, Yanis Varoufakis, Nikos Pappas, Panagiotis Lafazanis and other key coalition members were aware of his plan.
In his first visit to Moscow, Tsipras condemned the European Union policy in Ukraine and supported the referendum of east Ukraine seeking secession. It was then that Germany realized Greece was prepared to shift alliances, something that would threaten the Eurozone cohesion. Tsipras was hoping that Germany would back down under that threat and offer Greece a generous debt haircut. At the time, Tsipras had the rookie ambition that he could change Europe, the report continued.
It also spoke of a “geopolitical matchmaking” as Tsipras was introduced to Leonid Resetnikof, Director of the Russian Institute of Strategic Studies, before the European Parliament elections in May 2014. The introduction was made by Professor of Russian Studies Nikos Kotzias, who later cashed in on his services by getting the chair of Foreign Affairs Minister.
But the biggest stunner: it was Putin who declined the offer on the night of the referendum.
The July 5 referendum was a test for Tsipras to see what the Greek
people were thinking about Europe and the Eurozone. However, on the
night of the referendum, word came from Russia that Putin did not want
to support Greece’s return to the drachma. That was confirmed the days
that followed. After that, Tsipras had no choice left but to “surrender”
to German Chancellor Angela Merkel and sign the third bailout package.
In other words it was not Tsipras' failure to predict how Greece would react to the Greek referendum nor was it his secret desire to lose it as previously suggested (expecting a Yes vote and getting 61% "No"s instead), but a last minute rejection by Putin that lead to the Greek government's capitulation, and the expulsion of Varoufakis who most certainly was the propagator of this plan.
It also means that Merkel suddenly has a massive debt of gratitude to pay to Vladimir, whose betrayal of the Greek "marxists" is what allowed the Eurozone to continue in its current form. The question then is what is Vlad's pro quo in exchange for letting down the Greek government (and handing over its choicest assets to the (s)quid), whose fate was in the hands of the former KGB spy.
Finally, it is very possible that To Vima is taking some liberties with truth. For confirmation we would suggest to get the official story from Varoufakis, who lately has been anything but radio silent. If confirmed, this will certainly be the biggest and most underreported story of the year, one which suggests that the perpetuation of Merkel's dream of a united Europe was only possible thanks to this man.
If confirmed, first and foremost look for a growing schism between Europe and the US (which has clearly been pushing Merkel's buttons via the IMF's ever louder demands for a debt haircut not to mention Jack Lew's rather direct intervention in the Greek bailout negotiations) and an increasing sense of friendly proximity between Berlin (and Brussels) and Moscow.
The biggest loser in this game of realpolitik, once again, are the ordinary Greek people.
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It's all fake "money" anyway, why is any of this charade necessary? Keeping up appearences? Trying to pretend they can hold back historic change?
any attempt to curtail corruption will cause so much pain for so many, as it has been business as usual too long for greece and for every other country, that any leader responsible for this will sooner or later end up with a bullet in his/her head. civilisation has inertia which one can't change too rapidly or one will break the social fabric of a country. and that will get ugly. ask jfk.
well, Russia could hold out for free rent on a couple of ports or inland Military bases..
Strategic error, a major one, on Putin's part if true. Sure, Greece is a black hole for money but moving Greece toward Moscow would be a huge counter blow to the West's strategy. At some point you'd think the Russians would want to start splintering NATO at its periphery. Seems like a giant opportunity missed.
the greek military would not let this happen IMO
Nuland was already in Greece before the referendum. Putin gives money next thing he knows Greece is gloriously rebeled against Russian invasion and West is supplying them with free money. Same shit all over again, even worth because all EU contries will be united saying "This is all Russia's fault." No, better West rips all of what it sawed.
In doing so Putin is letting Greece and the rest of Europe sink further into the abyss. Better to wait until everyone west of him is in over their heads. When the EU implodes, Putin settles all family business.
Don't know what to think, except there doesn't appear to be any 'good guys.'
All of us ordinary people are the good guys. Those who have "power" over us are always the bad guys. The world is a much simpler place than most have been taught to believe.
In general I agree, but the ordinary set has a lot of greedy thieves who lick the boots of power.
If this is true then it is stuff you can't make up. It means that Putin saved the Euro so he wants something in return for it. Also interesting to see how this leaked to the press.
But so much for 'Orthodox brotherhood'.
something in return? ... Ukraine before the year is out.
Same deal Putin made Assad?
The MIC want to militarize the EU.
Save the boy loving MP's in England.
Hmmm, a loan? of USD. Greece still has some gold, (had) it's infrastruture companies, and could lease (for hard currency) rather than sell it's Islands. All you need is central bank currency swaps with your trading partners (that's if you own your own central bank ... doesn't matter whether the opposite bank is Rosthchild or not all you need is the other currency, and you print your own). This article is BS. Varoufakis gave the reason why a move to new currency wasn't possible. It takes time and in that time you are subjected to economic blackmail. The prep takes months and it needs to be done in secret ... inertia.
When you're dead in the water all you have is time. And then you run out of time. Greece ran out of time.
Putin will run out of time too. Imagine two old guys playing chess in the park and one does so little he falls asleep..that is Putin.
Why should Russia prop up the EU banking system?
Why would he prop up the EU banking system? Any loan to Greece would have to be contingent on Greece defaulting on all EU/ECB/IMF loans.
Otherwise it doesn't make a whig of sense.
How is defaulting on all EU/ECB/IMF loans propping up the EU banking system?
Putin,
You're a faggot and a bankers' lackey.
You spineless cunt.
All you idiotic Russians had to do, was to say, We ain't selling no oil or gas for dollars or euros' and you'd have brought the EU and the bankers to their knees.
Hence the proof that all that Russians are, is just greedy morons who are selling their honor and their women for the privilege of buying New York real estate.
Russians, especially you, Putin,
You are a bunch of stupid animals who betrayed their brothers in Donetsk.
Go suck bankers' dick and have your women butt-fucked by the CIA.
A thoughtful person, rather than a KremlinHasbarina, would have to consider your assertion.
So Putin may have just pivoted the entire EuroZone towards Russia and China concluding his great Eurasian Ecosystem dream. This is a brilliant move by Putin if this is correct.
You work for the FSB? The CIA? Silly me. It's the same shit, isn't? All the bankers' dogs.
Nah they don't want guys like me.
Absolutely:
1.) Germany wants the Greeks to utterly default and leave the euro in order to destroy the massive pile of derivatives being held by Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan, thus avalanching the US$ monetary system to a cloud of dust; the purpose being to free themselves from 70 years as an Occupied country and a puppet government for the US neocons.
2) Russia wants the same thing, particularly due to the NATO encirclement of Russia, economic sanctions, threats of incipient nuclear war, and to put a stop to the US-engineered, Nuland/Soros destruction of Ukraine --which isn't doing neither Europe nor Russia any good. Bolstering Greece with a loan, even to return to the drachma, would not have accomplished the desired effect.
3) Sadly, the Greeks are the unfortunate pawns on this board and are therefore being backed into an insupportable corner in order to produce a a complete and utter, insurrection-driven default. Then, and only then, will Russia and China will open their pocketbooks with as much aid as Greece needs.
In the end, and without a shot being fired, Deutschland will return as a global superpower; reigning supreme as the head of a newly revived euro. i.e. Deutchland uber alles; Amerika kaput.
No war; eurasian prosperity; and the neocon empire turned to rubble.
Pullmyfinger: Some good comments here, but yours is the best so far.
The plan isn't to capsize Euroland; it's to capsize USD and North America.
Then the new rentiers can make North America a resource colony for a New World Order: Europe (led by Germany & France & UK), and Russia, and China -- US will have no power, and be 'justly' punished for its 20th century (and 21st century) misdeeds. A New World Order will come about, but it will be neither uni-polar nor American-led. We are watching its early formation now. All these games, including propping up the current banking status quo, are to give occupied Europe time to make its gradual pivot and emerge as a leader in a multi-polar world.
That's why all 3 of those 'pole' powers -- Europe, Russia, China -- are amassing gold. (Occupied Europe mostly on the down-low.) Not sure about the UK and gold, but the tell for me was when UK so prominently moved to AIIB, quickly followed by US traditional allies. So UK will be included in the New World Order, I think as part of a European power pole.
It's not about being charitable to little Greece, or any of the other little guys (observe this well, Canada, Australia, and other power 'colonies'). These big powers aren't doing this so they can help out a few little guys along the way, and break up their own big groupings. They'll help Greece, and any other small nationals, if and only if that moves their multi-polar plans forward. I see a lot of cohesion amongst the big players, and the general theme consistently appearing there is anti-USD. The Middle East, India, and South America are still wild cards, although Middle East certainly isn't going to be siding with a USD alliance any time soon.
It's about enlarging from one pole of power, to a few, and reorganising the whole world into a few different areas. China to oversee Southern Hemisphere commerce and trade; Europe the North; Russia the enforcement arm. I expect that Russia will eventually provide military enforcement for China, and for Europe once Europe comes further on board. The US Military will be pushed back and reduced.
North America, especially the US, had better start paying some close attention to its own politics, and I'm not talking about the MSM red-blue reality-show bullshit for 'voters'. How many people are paying appropriate attention to the obvious and encroaching military preparations taking place over here? Not one article that I can recall, since the Wal-Mart closings, on Zero Hedge about this. (It's possible I just missed them on my travels.) Not one credible threat to such supra-national organisations as UN or World Bank. (Although the Rothschild-led BIS system may be in trouble.) NATO will probably break down as it isn't really supra-national; it's very much a US occupying force. 'Little guys' will get help only insofar as it destabilises the USD system, and strengthens the 'multi-pole' groups. 'Little guys' will be crushed insofar as they impede this large plan.
I don't trust any 'world' leader. Good leader or bad -- and I think Putin is very good, in terms of leadership alone -- none of them will have a care for, or be a rescuer of, the little people. Individualists tend not to make a lot of money for or empower big governments. We little citizens matter about as much as your average insect, and in terms of looking out for our interests, forget any government foreign or domestic. We are each on our own. 'Nationalism' by citizens will be encouraged only if it weakens USD World Order, and strongly DIScouraged if it goes against the interest of strengthening the new 'multi-poles'. Supra-nationals will rule and, the plan is, become much stronger. Nationalistic wars will reduce and weaken national populations, so that they can be rescued by the multi-polar supra-nationals, and the local populations will welcome their rescue into one of those big folds.
As Volkodav (I think it is?) is fond of saying, Better pay attention to your own country.
It also may be as simple as that he doesn't want to pull anyone out of the water that will drill holes in the bottom of the boat. Let them ride, for now, in somebody else's boat until they are finished drilling.
The triumph of hope over experience I would suggest.
As much as I like the "WWE" smackdown between Putin-Russia and Obama-US and all their little sub-allies, you have to admit that Putin could do a lot more than he ever has and just by sitting there gets a lot of bs credit for nothing.
Often makes me wonder if he is not just filling the old role of "good-cop/bad-cop" for the masses. You can even choose which one he is based on your political leaning.
He is not to be trusted as having traditional values, principles, and integrity anymore than Obama.
any comparison of PUTIN to obama is impossible - they dont exist on the same level in human development
Greece has just under 4 billion ($US) in gold. They could have coined and printed drachmas from the value of their gold. Tsipras could have destroyed the fiat Euro overnight.
john - Only questgion I have is where does Greece store the AU ? If at the Fed or in London it is already spoken for by the Rochchild bankers. There will be a new ownership tag on that wooden pallet(s) as soon as Greece exits.
Putin will let the ECB and the IMF take the hit on Greece along with the nut they have to spend on a bottomless corrupt pit in Ukraine.Smartguy,he knows the pressure on Portugal,Spain,Italy and the rest.The policy integrity of the EU has been severly compromised by Germany.Putin can see the defects,let them all spend endlessly.
Why did Greece vote in favour of sanctions, then?
Story smells of bullshit.
60% of the greek people did---however the military did not----who is the real greek power--the political class or the military? ---that is the question?
Yeah, what's going to happen when Grecce is out? Do you suppose the rest of the EU is going to keep paying the Greek military in Euros? Or maybe they'll get paid in NATO bucks or Canadian tire money.?
If Russia agreed with the Greek request, I would think all out war between Russia and the USA as a possible consequence. The Empire would have a tantrum and nobody likes those.
Yep. I can only imagine the temper tantrum in the west and more and more sanctions against russia. One of the things I like about Putin is he cares for Russia first
East/west , red/blue, unipolar/multilateral, fascist/communist - globalist. Period.
Firing pins all over again..
What would be the upside for Putin? Prolly less than the downside.
Nations have interests, not friends.
Varoufakis understood that. Tsipras thought he could influence "Russian friendship" and then French "friendship" and he found out friends are the first to betray you 'cos they say to you "read my lips"; they never say to you : "I do what I say!" ....
So more fool you for believing them.
Yanis was proven right as he preferred to die rather than sign on the "dotted line" an impossible compromise.
Whereas Tsipras... he went down the tube.
And now the climb back up the Sisyphian hill...
Nations have interests, not friends.
That truism can't be repeated often enough.So Putin left the Greek Trojan Horse inside the EU to continue poisoning the empire from within.
And this is somehow a surprise?
The story seems a little far-fetched. I don't think Eastern Europe is as in love with Putin and Russia as the anti-banker crowd lets on. Also there isn't much of a Russian population in Greece. THey have some religious and cultural ties, but the referendum shows Greece wants to stay with Europe pretty badly.
....I don't think Eastern Europe s as in love with Putin and Russia as the anti-banker crowd lets on. ...
deadly wrong. come here and have a look.
except nazis in baltikum the whole west can forget East.
None of the Baltic States or Poland wants to live in Putin's neighborhood.
not anymore, im sure
It was always clear to me that Tsipras's contacts with Putin had a rather shallow air about them. I never saw them as Greece showing a genuine interest in building closer relations with Moscow.
Tsipras was trying to use Putin/Russia as a weapon against the EU/Troika muppets to extract better terms. Simple as that. Putin is a smart guy and will have seen thru this, so he pulled the plug on Greece.
The benefits for Putin if he had helped Greece as requested are somewhat difficult to quantify despite all the hype about Russian military bases popping up next door to NATO bases. I would have expected to see pre-emptive action taken by the West to prevent that.
Whilst Greece is in one helluva mess, some of it has been aggravated by the inexperienced Tsipras.
Russia's racio:
the "West" has to keep afloat Greece, going to lose $200bln, either as a haircut, or because of Greek bankrupcy, and will have less resources to intervene in Syria and Ua.
this inflilcts a real damade to EU and IMF
it's just entries in a spreadsheet. They will keep making that pie bigger.
Bigger than michelle obama's hair pie..
So a newspaper tied to PASOK puts out information that
1) Makes it seem like Tsipras was going to BRIC with a Grexit, scandalous! unthinkable!
2) BRIC said no, so don't bother its hopeless anyway!
Result if you believe it (and its somewhat believable isn't it?)
1) Tsipras is now out/discredited
2) Deal with EU further cemented
3) Pivot away from BRIC
4) Less chance of Grexit
Pretty convienient... Probably because its mostly true, they just omit the fact they tried the same thing (buttering up to Putin) for a decade before hand when they were in charge.
Putin doesn't want to bail out Greece, he wants to bail out all of Europe. Greece is the chisel to the Goldman hammer. Russia has the glue.
The West has Gladio; Russia has Vladio.
Think big, tovarich! As big as all of Russia!
What did he need $10B for?
To institute a properly managed Medium of Exchange (MOE), you just need an actuarially sound certification process for trader's promises; a record book; and a DEFAULT monitoring system.
Costs almost nothing!
Of course Tsipras has another problem: Governments are chronic deadbeat traders and are shunned by a marketplace employing a properly managed MOE. His job is to protect a deadbeat trader. Pretty tough job!
Drachma printing presses were stored in the basement....go old school man
go old school man
Works for me ... so long as the process knows where every certificate goes and when it is due back, and collects immediate interest for those that don't come back as promised.
Interesting. And not only east block, Tsipras also asked before Obama for a help so we can assume he tried all major powers. So he did not betrayed his voters after all, its just that his plan failed. Still, he should have default in any case.
Let's assume for a minute that this article is true! Which is not... never speculate according to greek media not to mention To Vima!
Geopolitically Greece would have to create wealth with no alliances in a medium to worse case scenario! Without Europe Greece is worse than Turkey unfortunately that's how global economy works!
With alliances! so stuff should become public in many ways... especially the Alliances part! Spesifiying alliances would get us to a point of a dealbreaker with the already made alliances and many market sanctions!
In other news... the world would split for the sake of Greece! not because Greece would like that but because the west would never take a blow like this so lightly!
And then we go to the actual problem... Syriza is a left wing goverment with much love in the public sector!
Public sector doesn't create shit! and it would take alot of time for it to be productive! many of his rich sectors has been sold to Germans and others in the last 5 years and the rest was just desolved over the years...
All in all Greece can't sustain itself let alone create profits AND stop the illegals from crossing the borders!
A Black hole for cash unfortunately although with the right goverment and not someone who was planning his plan the last 5 months or so a great strategic partner in many sectors!
Until that goverment comes... i don't blame putin for not giving it a try!
Herr Angela: "Why, yes, Vlad, we could accommodate some Flankers at one of our air bases. You'll pay top rent? Let me get von Ribbentrop on the line!"
"Sub pens near Hamburg? Well, the moar the merrier! Just bring Gold. Some bastards stole ours."
I think Putin and China will take in Iran after Iran decides to drop the whole deal due to zionist pressure in the USA.
Putin knows Iran has much more to offer than feta cheese.
Putin said ''BRIGS'' just didn't sound right.
Russia will win in the end without firing a shot. Just watch the other side self destruct.
No, those fuckers (you know who) will launch before they lose it all.
I'm feeling fiesty, so I'm reposting this from a reply I made to FOster below.
1.) Germany wants the Greeks to utterly default and leave the euro in order to destroy the massive pile of derivatives being held by Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan, thus avalanching the US$ monetary system to a cloud of dust; the purpose being to free themselves from 70 years as an Occupied country and a puppet government for the US neocons.
2) Russia wants the same thing, particularly due to the NATO encirclement of Russia, economic sanctions, threats of incipient nuclear war, and to put a stop to the US-engineered, Nuland/Soros destruction of Ukraine --which isn't doing neither Europe nor Russia any good. Bolstering Greece with a loan, even to return to the drachma, would not have accomplished the desired effect.
3) Sadly, the Greeks are the unfortunate pawns on this board and are therefore being backed into an insupportable corner in order to produce a a complete and utter, insurrection-driven default. Then, and only then, will Russia and China will open their pocketbooks with as much aid as Greece needs.
In the end, and without a shot being fired, Deutschland will return as a global superpower; reigning supreme as the head of a newly revived euro. i.e. Deutchland uber alles; Amerika kaput.
No war; eurasian prosperity; and the neocon empire turned to rubble.
Good post. been listening to Jim Willie?
I have. He makes a wonderful contrast to all other analysts. But in my defense, I don't think he's ever outlined this particular scenario --as compatible with his content as it is.
I'm really just a firm believer in the Realpolitik school of thought.
Fix the typo -
-which isn't doing neither Europe nor Russia any good.
i am afraid the US is not very good at losing. whoever is pulling the strings will prefer to leave the planet as a pile of nuclear ash than giving up even an iota of power.
Valdimir Putin, you cunning little devil!
Preciseless!
That cunt Nuland was in Azerbaijan recently undoubtedly to stir up the Caspain Basin countrie.
Headline I like to see is ''Nulands head exploded like pumpkin''
Amen brother. The lord giveth and the lord taketh away.
Putin knows Europe is weaker with Greece in the EU and causes much more stress to EU's leaders, than if it leaves. Supporting return to drachma = supporting Germany.
Aside from a clear whiff of a CIA planted FUD, if all it takes to eliminate $300B debt is $10B a lot of other European (and other) countries would do it. No one knows for sure what would default entail, but complete economic blockade and asset seizure is not a far fetched scenario, knowing how the West "negotiates" in general. I guess tanks on streets of Athens is somewhat better scenario than a threat of carpet bombing Belgrade, an offer that Serbia got after 72 days of NATO wanton destruction of infrastructure and anything of value really.
For Greece the best scenario is a haircut on debt which is pretty much obvious to anyone, including Germans, except for that unfortunate domino theory which says that it would be just a first one in a series of many other that had to be cut. Yet facts are what they are, and Germans wishful thinking won't budge reality all that much. As much as Greece has to live with the fact that they need "new economy" so does Germany has to live with the fact that debt haircuts have no alternative.
What a load of bollicks!
You must be another bleeding heart socialist locust who scavanges other people's hard worked green patches.
You people think that this "hair-cut" is just something you take off the top of the head and toss it away. Don't you people understand that a hair-cut will entail someone paying. Most likely other pensioners in other countries will suffer, all because the Greeks need to have their NOT earned pensions.
You should spend a little more time reading the plethora of commentary here at ZH that gives many solutions that the GREEKS could do. Like for example, start paying taxes, start working hard for your livlihood, and the dozens of other things that can be done! Or how about the more obvious, get out of the EU, and print the drachma. And before you start on the Putin episode, Greece could quite easily have sold assets to get their 10 billion to start. But no, they went once again, with cup in hand to ask Putin for money. And he said no! Smart man, can't say the same about you Neochrome.
You write like you are stuck in the the middle of the cold war, I take it you're an old fool who can't grasp the world has changed. Neochrome, WW2 and the cold war are over! Try and understand that we are in the 21st century and that government debts are not things you lob off trees like branches. Debts are not like it was 50 years ago that only rich people supplied and can afford to lose. Debts today are backed by pension funds, and if you give a hair cut to greece, it may just be that your are cutting your own pension!
Its July 2015, not 1947 when the cold war started. The war is over, both cold and hot! Today, every body needs to fess up to their responsibilities and not push them off to others just because you're too lazy.
I guess it was a Greek idea to put other "pensioners" on the hook instead of the banks, as it was a matter of fact in 2010? As for your "righteous anger" at Greek pensioners, I can only laugh at your shallowness, as I can assure you that Greece is far from a unique case when it comes to pension (unfunded) liabilities. Your stipulation that pension funds go broke simply because retirees didn't really "earn" their retirement is beyond naive.
On the topic of ZH, you don't need to go much further than comments on this article, than come back and tell me what is the consensus that Greece should do, and I assure you, it's not at "start paying taxes, start working hard for your livlihood, and the dozens of other things that can be done".
As for your personal insults aimed at me, I honestly don't care what you think of me. I've had heard much worse from a much smarter people, and yet somehow those insults don't really change the facts. Go figure...
Right on man!! What people don't realize is the these slimy politicians around the world have promised people way too much for votes...Greece is the first domino...screw'em let them fall
you sound like a cold dick! :-P
Konigin Mutti
Der Spiegel
if confirmed, of course
*********************
a little better, I hope
Two months ago when Russia offered for Greece to join the BRICS, Tsipris used Putin to try to get better concessions from Germany and the Troika.
You dont make Vlad Mad!
So it is not surprising that when Greece finally reaches a point of desperation, Vlad pulls the rug out and tells them... you're either ALL in with us, or you are dead as a nation.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to toss the dice)
Got Karatbars?
I think its all theatre and Putin just invited Tspiras over for a cup of coffee. Just to make the EU clowns think.
Tavli is for weak sissy men, here in Ukraine(U.S.S.R) we play game of the kings... Check mate bitches...
Sorry this story doesn't stand scrutiny. It's just something for the Greek pop to hold on to to explain why their PM apparently is batshit crazy
You don't need $10B to print a currency for 11M people..maybe $100M tops. Then of course he could and would have done it if that was the plan.
I think it was Varofakis who wanted to print the Drachma but woke up with a horse's head in his bed.
Dear Alex,
Let’s just use Rubles from now on.
Vlad.
I think Putin knows the modus operandi of the ZioNazis and is probably laughing as Iran drops out of the deal and joins the BRICS and Obomber will look like the fucking ignorant Monkey he is.
Iran joins the BRICS? Now there's a thought.
WOW! that would set a few cats among the pigeons(!)
It begins to look like BRIICS would have a significant share of the world's remaining oil/gas reserves, but also a significant internal demand for it. All it would need is for Qatar to join them...
If Iran doesn't, I'll start wondering if the Ayatollah Kumfrommany doesnt sport a Kipa late at night. ;)
I prefer a kipper to Kipa any day. ;-)
Putin and the popcorn is still fucking hilarious every time I see it, but yeah a lot of this story sounds like a lot a crap.
Sorry guy "bailouts" (mega cost shifts) are not pro-western under any circumstances ever, bailouts are an "anti Western" thing done to prevent market forced change which must happen.
The West is capitalist, bailouts are not capitalism or Capitalist, in fact government bailouts are right out of the Communist looter handbook, ther bailouts comp right after the regulatory sabotage and bankrupting policies are imposed, once the state owns everything all regulations are off.
$10B? Hell, he should have asked Pamela Downs, bitch would do it for $5!
I heard she was Hugh Downs younger sister.. She was just repeating what her senile older brother was ranting about fiat money scam by the joooos..
bullsh#t
The sourced article could be correct if Tsipras wanted to convert back to the drachma but still remain in the EU. Doing deals with an EU country while Russia still has counter-sanctions in place would be poison to Putin. If Tsipras and friends tried to do a deal with Russia without leaving the EU, it would be no wonder that Putin said no. And last I heard, Tsipras still wants to be in the EU.
Makes sense. Does not really have a dog in this fight.
Bobby Fischer (Jew) and chess genius discussing Jews.
Hilarious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oO0_1oS_oU
Damn Jews cut off my pee-pee... I knew it!!!
And IF YOU BELEIEVE what the "TO VIMA" prints, I have A PALACE ON THE MOON WITH HANGING GARDENS to sell you @ HALF PRICE.
It's only effective if Merkel & Co. know about the secret mtgs between Russia-China and Tsipras, and know that on the night of the reefer Putin made the play to demonstrate his key position (which can be repeated in several ways) and his willingness to work with Germany in a Eurasian alliance.
Whatever you think of Merkel, I strongly suspect that Russian intelligence made sure German intelligence had the dope they needed on this, in order to let Putin make his point most effectively.
Merkel will now be pressured to an unprecedented degree by her political and business associates to move toward Russia.
It must really suck when you can't afford to print your own money.
Why not use sea shells as currency? They are a sea faring nation.
"After that, Tsipras had no choice left but to “surrender”
Total and absolute Bul. Sh.t!
The Germans used REAL ESTATE to back their currency after their "hyperinflationary event".
Ecuador uses the US Dollar.
What's this Bul. Sh.t about only the Government can issue a currency?
Greece could let the free market determine what currency to use.
Ever since the Wall Street funded Bolshevik revolution....russia has been in cahoots with the banksters....just as Mao was during the great leap forward and the one-child policy that CIA agent daddy Bush helped negotiate.
When KGB agent Putin is played up as a WWE enemy of the great Murica!....you can be assured that you are being played for a fool.
And here we see Putin playing his ppart very welll...using the dilectic to help push greece in only one direction....right into new world order slavery.
Well Done Putin!
There was no way Putin would ever throw $10B down a Greek rathole. The very idea that he would is absurd on its face.
The Greeks should have printed their Drachma and their IOUs on their own, in the 5 months they had before the showdown. The Tsipras gang screwed up - badly.
Exactly to negotiate, you need a backup position or something to negotiate with! That game theory guy, surely he knew this?
"There was no way Putin would ever throw $10B down a Greek rathole."
Not as long as the hole leads to the EU. Russia does not want to get tangled up in EU politics.
The best way for the Russians to weaken/destroy the USA is to allow Europe/IMF to continue pouring resources into the bottomless pit of the Mediterranean countries. Obvious.
Let the West sort out its own problems is the motto of Mr Putin.
Putin is a very smart man. Judo champ and is shows in the way he does things.
Putin is a very smart man. Judo champ and is shows in the way he does things.
I was working in Luxembourg before we went to the Euro. EVeryone had their own currency but the ledgers on the books in the banks in parentheses showed the EMU amount. This was in 1998,
The Euro was at 1.17 to the dollar and STAYED there didn't float. It stayed at that until all of use went to use the Euro in 2001-2002 I remember going out at midnight to the ATM and being one of the first to get Euros.
For me it was a relief, no more 5 or 6 currencies in my wallet. I used to travel to 4 or 5 different countries during the week.
NOW its all different all DEBIT CARD , and seldom use cash.
Like the USA going from State to State with the same dollars.
Yes but now the computers at the ATM do the exchange rate automatically. The UK still uses the pound sterling and Swiss the Franc. So I just go to ATM and it automatically debits my acccount for the exchange rate at that exact moment.
I get paid in dollars also for some pensions. When I go to the ATM with my US bank card, it automatically spits out in Euros based on the rate at that time. Verified with my smartphone and Oanda. Good thing here is NO ATM FEES.
Ok... We gotcha, no need to push return so vigorously.....
Yes but now the computers at the ATM do the exchange rate automatically. The UK still uses the pound sterling and Swiss the Franc. So I just go to ATM and it automatically debits my acccount for the exchange rate at that exact moment.
I get paid in dollars also for some pensions. When I go to the ATM with my US bank card, it automatically spits out in Euros based on the rate at that time. Verified with my smartphone and Oanda. Good thing here is NO ATM FEES.
Yes but now the computers at the ATM do the exchange rate automatically. The UK still uses the pound sterling and Swiss the Franc. So I just go to ATM and it automatically debits my acccount for the exchange rate at that exact moment.
I get paid in dollars also for some pensions. When I go to the ATM with my US bank card, it automatically spits out in Euros based on the rate at that time. Verified with my smartphone and Oanda. Good thing here is NO ATM FEES.
the real ISSUE is not ... "Putin refused to print drachmas for Greece".
The issue is ... WHO ELSE did a deal with Putin, and effectively isolated Greece. This wasn't just the work of Russia. Somebody cut a deal with Putin. Putin got something in return.
ONE THING ... you can say with absolute certainty. Someone in Europe is trying to SCREW Greece in a major way. Big-time. Someone wants Athens to be between a rock and a hard place. You can blame it all on politics if you want. But it probably boils down to good old fashioned money. Someone wants to get their hands on Greek assets ... at rock bottom prices.
"whoever is pulling the strings will prefer to leave the planet as a pile of nuclear ash than giving up even an iota of power."
Yes, that's my impression too.
I would have LOVED to see Putin and China loan Greece billions to "print Drachmas." That would have been fun to watch them lose 100% of their investment when Greece defaults.
Iran will drop out of the deal due to the Zionazi pressure of US congress and then Europe will be pissed off at USA for blowing the deal costing Europe BILLIONS//
Meanwhile Vlad will be snickering.
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/21/421258/Kyrgyzstan-US-cooperatio...
Why give Greece more bad money when Russia can buy the same assets in the German bank fire sale, because it's coming.
Sanctions... look at the Ukraine, making everything Russian illegal. It is so the US bankers can buy everything at 2%.. in US debt bonds and t bills.
10 billion for stinkin drachma, NO!...Even ruble, more betta!
how you like me now?...still friends?...business is business...Right?
what a dick!
That's what she said.
Instead asking Russia for money to print Drachmas why not only ask for Rubles and use it directly in the local economy?
The benefit for the Russians is that the Greece will temper sudden Ruble appreciations because oil will go up eventually and take it up.
Greece didn't veto the renewal of EU sanctions on Russia. So no loan for Greece. Simples.
It's a sale, not a loan.
... Mr. Putin's chess play on the Greek scenario is basically implementing a plan in its conflict with the West ... he has been deliberately changing the balance of power in the EU world, slowly, for an extended period of time now and it looks like he's succeeding ... I could see the BRICS bank, (which opened for operations in Shanghai with $50B to play with >>> http://www.rt.com/business/310321-brics-bank-begins-operations/ ), making its move soon ...
Sir, have you considered writing fiction based on rumor? I think you would excel.
You are precisely the person for whom rumors are created and then nurtured along until they have done 500% of what they were originally launched to do.
The greatest of all these rumors/beliefs was the alleged dispute between Russia and China, which caused the leaders in Washington to believe that the communist power houses would nevermore be allies and triggered the visit of Nixon to China and Mao in 1972.
The false Sino-Soviet Conflict of the late Fifties and the hostilities which broke out along the Amur in the mid Sixties was gobbled up in America and the West by the CIA, the NSA, the PTA, the NRA, the ADL et cetera, et cetera.
And, it pains me to have to say it, but prolly by you too, dear author.
It's too soon to tell whether Putin dumped Tsipras or if that's what the two of them want the EU and US to think. Perhaps it has to do with pipelines, perhaps naval bases.
Unless you know Putin and Tsipras personally, there's no way you can tell if this is puppenspiel or not.
The day before Syriza won the election, Greece owed $330 billion. The election did not reduce that amount. Tsipras, Varoufakis, et alia must have had a plan before they won
Maybe these rumors and stories are part of the plan.
Interesting stuff:
Varoufakis Explains Resignation; Discloses It Was Clear Syriza Was Going To Say “Yes” As Troika Forced Choice Between ‘Suicide Or Execution’
TND Guest Contributor: Lauren McCauley |
In his first international television interview since stepping down from his post as Greek Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis told CNN‘s Christiane Amanpour on Monday that European lenders had forced his government to make a choice between “suicide or execution.”
Full story and video, click below:
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=485407
What happened to the last guys who proposed gold backed currencies? What a daffy idea.
Here's a rumor approved by Putin that has the West on edge
http://tass.ru/en/russia/809837On Thursday July 23 Russia will launch a manned Soyuz up to the ISS. Unless there are problems.
Russia alone decides when it launches its rockets and whether they are manned or not. Not like Bozo Reagan sending the Challenger up for a show on the floor of the House of Representatives and killing seven astronauts.
Russia will not pay for Greece.
No one will pay for greece...
This is a country that has one of the highest standards of living in the world (GDP per capita nearly 2x that of Russia). Ah well - same shxt where I live in Canada. Feminism and democracy combine to create left wing nut job scorched earth unsustanable looting.
This is a country that has one of the highest standards of living in the world (GDP per capita nearly 2x that of Russia). Ah well - same shxt where I live in Canada. Feminism and democracy combine to create left wing nut job scorched earth unsustanable looting.
Vlad gave 'em the old switcheroo!
Allegedly. And, why would he do that?
SYRIZA did not play it's hand right. Far left goons... Tsipras did not offer VLAD enough, why not give him a base in the island of CRETE.. THERE is an AMERICAN BASE in CRETE.. BYE BYE USA and PUTIN ITS yours.. I personally would not have left PUTIN alone I would have offered even the Acropolis in ATHENS.. CHINA try to purchase the PIREAS harbor and SYRIZA shredded the agreement? What to you expect from Communist..I don't buy that PUTIN buried GREECE he needs as many NATIONS on his side unless GERMANY offered more? WE will never know the truth its the beginning.. RUSSIA historically is grateful to the Greek people for fighting the NAZIS long enough and were exhausted by the time they invaded Russia winter kicked in and the GERMANS were not prepare for the terrain.. We all know how that ended..
It is only inflation if it can be played against another major currency. Putin was all about Greece getting out of the clutches of the dollar, as in the IMF loan. The Dollar is the last target, because it is has a very powerful and dominate military that can act in very bad ways. As for China, it has to go back to buying gold, because it knows the real value of the dollar and has to unload all those unsustainable securities that are from the US and dollar based, until the trade imbalance goes away. LoL
The Euro at some time will have to inflate and Germany can't do that, so Germany will have to leave, just like Britain never really got in.
Germany will have to leave, just like Britain never really got in.
There may be some truth in that!
http://www.hangthebankers.com/us-dollar-will-not-survive-2015/ Bullet points 6& 7!
Tsipras et al would have been able to finance a New Drachma launch if they had not serviced Troika debt.
Would the ECB have immediately cut off ELA and forced capital controls at Greek Banks at that earlier stage? Probably.
Syriza's negotiating position was blown as soon as they made loan repayments, after all the Troika had withheld 7.1b Euro final installment of the second bailout.
How stupid is it to exhaust all reserves and resources, then ask other parties for loans?
Damn this must be giving NATO fits too.
Russia has wisely shrugged junkies on dope with no hope.
So, the beggar pleaded for some money. "I'll suck your dick" it offered. But why lend the beggar money. It is horrible with money. How to get the money back? The beggar needs to learn a lesson it seemed. So Putin kept his fiat USD, and continued walking. Then the beggar was struck by an idea! Why don't I print money and use it to buy Greek treasuries? I can finance deficits like the mighty USA!
if this is really true then surely everyone would do all to avoid the shift of alliance. The question is, does EU really want to have such a deceitful member? Is it worth the cost?
Is the money not better spent on reinforcing the borders against illegal immigration?
BRICS can live very well, if NATO and EU are bleeding.
They will tear up the wound even more, if they can.
It is the NATO/EU way to destroy its own memeber and Russia or China are not going to prevent it. To contrary, they will give Greeks the last kick to get them over the cliff.
But most important for me:
I do not trust any official sources or main stream media.
IAs I do not know Putin personaly and do not know anybody in greek gov., I cannot say, if this is a smoke screen or intent.
Applied Sun Tzu...
Greece will be a drain for at least a decade on whomever adopts them as vassals.
The EU is bleeding out... no need to interfere.
Behind the scenes their is a steady call around between Moskau and Berlin. Putin hasn't taken leave of his senses und won't risk a further split with Europe. He knows what is at stake: Europes blocking attitude toward militarisation of the Baltik area and Ukraine (...still they oppose the US), economic issues and the progressive isolation of Russia, whose government exactly knows that doing business with China is not a cinch if you can't offer corresponding products (beside of some gas).
Should Moskau risk all that for a bottomless pit with a government depending on local barkers only looking for the next pension-sponsor and soon calling the Russian "Stalinists" when not willed to deliver the next nevercomeback-credits to Greeks oligarchs, early retired persons, 130 years old pensioneers, pathetic consumers and tax-envaders?
Greece may ask for an alliance with Zimbabwe and even in this case I'm quite insure if I'm doing insustice to modern Africa.
Is that picture with putin eating pop-corn regarding these articles?
Thanks for the link about Turkmenistan. If I remember correctly, that country was one of those that Gazprom paid higher than market prices for its gas a few years ago, in order to block supplies for the proposed Nabucco pipeline. Sounds like Gazprom is in price negotiations again.
Greek Affair:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/greek-odyssey-through-debt/
Ukrainian update:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/ukrainian-war-update/