This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Obama's Minimum Wage Utopia Just Hit A Brick Wall
Who could have possibly seen this coming? Almost three years we first detailed how America has become an entitlement nation where "work is punished." It appears President Obama is about to discover this first hand as his populist 'raise the minimum wage' strategy is showing yet another major unintended consequence. On the same day as New York acts to mandate a $15 minimum wage for fast food workers, Seattle's $15 minimum wage law - which is supposed to lift workers out of poverty and off public assistance - has hit a snag. As Fox News reports, evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent. So not only is work 'punished' it is now 'disinentivized by mandate' as part-time America toils amid ever-rising costs of living.
This isthe painful reality in America: for increasingly more it is now more lucrative - in the form of actual disposable income - to sit, do nothing, and collect various welfare entitlements, than to work.
This is graphically, and very painfully confirmed, in the below chart from Gary Alexander, Secretary of Public Welfare, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (a state best known for its broke capital Harrisburg). As quantitied, and explained by Alexander, "the single mom is better off earnings gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045."
We realize that this is a painful topic in a country in which the issue of welfare benefits, and cutting (or not) the spending side of the fiscal cliff, have become the two most sensitive social topics. Alas, none of that changes the matrix of incentives for most Americans who find themselves in a comparable situation: either being on the left side of minimum US wage, and relying on benefits, or move to the right side at far greater personal investment of work, and energy, and... have the same disposable income at the end of the day.
And so, as Fox News reports, it is no surprise that the sudden gains in income from a government-mandated $15 minimum wage would tip some over the edge of their handouts entitlement... and thus dicincentize work altogether...
Seattle’s $15 minimum wage law is supposed to lift workers out of poverty and move them off public assistance. But there may be a hitch in the plan.
Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.
Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.
“If they cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people,” said Jason Rantz, host of the Jason Rantz show on 97.3 KIRO-FM.
The twist is just one apparent side effect of the controversial -- yet trendsetting -- minimum wage law in Seattle, which is being copied in several other cities despite concerns over prices rising and businesses struggling to keep up.
The notion that employees are intentionally working less to preserve their welfare has been a hot topic on talk radio. While the claims are difficult to track, state stats indeed suggest few are moving off welfare programs under the new wage.
Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376.
At the same time, prices appear to be going up on just about everything.
Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut.
Some long-time Seattle restaurants have closed altogether, though none of the owners publicly blamed the minimum wage law.
“It’s what happens when the government imposes a restriction on the labor market that normally wouldn’t be there, and marginal businesses get hit the hardest, and usually those are small, neighborhood businesses,” said Paul Guppy, of the Washington Policy Center.
* * *
As we previously concluded, with more than half of welfare spending going to working families...
The irony here seems to be that because companies would rather spend their money on raises for "supervisors" and on stock buybacks which benefit the very same supervisory employees who are likey to own stocks (and which artificially inflate the bottom line), everyday taxpayers just like the ones who can't get a raise end up footing the bill via public assistance programs. The companies meanwhile, get to utilize nice little tricks like corporate tax inversions in order to avoid paying their share of the assistance handed out to the very same employees they underpay.
»
- 56544 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
NOOOOO!!!!! it's a Recovery God damn it! Gold is WAAAAYYYY Down and Unemployment is under 5%
Shit and here I am the fool working 72 hour work weeks to try and get a head.
Just doin my part to help pay taxes for the FSA.
ahahaha. too funny. pretty much destroy's obama's (and every other liberals) talking point that these people aren't living on the dole because they want to and are lazy, its that they can't get ahead in america due to there not being a high enough minimum wage. "who could have seen that coming"....
"The irony here seems to be that because companies would rather spend their money on raises for "supervisors" and on stock buybacks which benefit the very same supervisory employees who are likey to own stocks (and which artificially inflate the bottom line), everyday taxpayers just like the ones who can't get a raise end up footing the bill via public assistance programs. The companies meanwhile, get to utilize nice little tricks like corporate tax inversions in order to avoid paying their share of the assistance handed out to the very same employees they underpay."
The evil managers don't put the taxpayers on the hook, socialist politicians and voters do. Business simply doesn't have the leverage to make taxpayers subsidize labor costs, the required mechanism is government taxes, courts, guns and prisons.
Lesser hours creates more jobs. Vote for 3 day work week!
I found it humorous that the obvious paid to post shill is actively debunking the source article and every comment... them folks are too obvious if you know how to identify them...
Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.
Assuming this is true (fox news posts mostly bullshit so who knows, too lazy to look it up) there is a pretty fucking obvious solution... reduce the public subsidies!
In essence, all this article suggests is that the $15 an hr can easily be a big win for taxpayers.
America is now a service economy. So we need a higher minimum wage. Without it, the middle class will disappear. I don't understand the logic.
"As Fox News reports,"
Right. I stopped reading there.
I stopped reading...
And yet you feel compelled to comment? I can understand the need to filter input and also the Murdoch approach to divide what should be a United approach to the governance of this country in America, but the chart showing the type and amounts of assistance available is quite telling.
What it shows me is the degree to which the government has infiltrated the fabric of everyday living, i.e. food, shelter, clothing, insurance, medical care, education, etc., and our willingness to allow "it" to metastasize itself even more until the patient is ultimately suffocated under it's omnipotent "care".
I'm sorry but there should come a time for most people when mom should quit making your bed, washing your clothes, fixing your breakfast and driving you to your soccer games. I'm speaking in metaphorical terms so please spare me the "living under the bridge" scenarios, the principle still holds.
For those wishing to get off the government cheese, the opportunities still exist, however, because so many of our entry level and now mundane factory floor tasks are being automated, we're forced to find new and valuable tasks to occupy our time with. Our educators have failed to provide many of their charges with the tools needed to prepare themselves for this challenge and have taken the Murdoch approach of dividing our youth from their historical roots of freedom and self-reliance / determination.
jmo.
Without the CMOT posters here there would be no entertainment value for my subscription dollar at all.
Oh wait...............................
Au contraire, increase the free shit cutoff cliffs. Make the total package $100k and that makes the service industry a career option.
s/
Bullish!!!
LA just this week past raising the minimum wage to $15, in spite of small business owners packing the council chambers and telling them it will kill jobs. It went in one ear and out the other. Instead they listened to DrEaMerZ tell them how tough it was to get by on less at a fry cook job. Past it unanimously.
As Laurel and Hardy said, "You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil has to be lead."
What effin' asshats.
Just work harder and stop complaining. We are in a recoveryyyyyy
90's Child "Shit and here I am the fool working 72 hour work weeks to try and get a head."
Those are long hours for a horseman.
go Galt
Go Speed Racer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALzDcMDhf2o
You know things are really shitty, when even the FSA is Going Galt.
Come on, you know what's next. Raise the minimum wage at which you still receive full benefits. You know it's coming.
WALL STREET IS THE ULTIMATE ENTITLEMENT NATION FOLLOWED BY THE MIC
More claptrap about how minimum wage workers don't want higher pay. In 1974, the minimum wage in New York went from $1.85 an hour to $2.00 an hour. That $2 an hour bought more stuff than $15 an hour now. A one bedroom apartment then in NYC outside of Manhattan went for $150 a month. In Manhattan, the price was $250 a month. This was before co-op converters finished their work getting rid of rentals in the lower end of the housing market. The subway fare was 35 cents a ride then and CUNY colleges were really free. Of course, New York City was in financial trouble, the banks would not lend the city funds to roll over $700 million in municipal debt, David Rockefeller at Chase Manhattan Bank saw no need to roll over the debt after his brother, Governor Nelson Rockefeller, became Ford's vice president. Life is very expensive these days compared to 1974, when mostly non-union 9-5 jobs (with an hour for lunch) at big Manhattan businesses came with health insurance and defined pension plans.
In 1974 unions represented roughly 28% of private workers, now ~8%. In 1974 the fed rate was ~10%, today it is ~0%. etc.
They are going to try and pass this Horse Shit here in Oregon. They have already started the process....it is called 15 now PDX. Here is the site.
http://www.15nowpdx.org/
These dumb fucks don't even understand that they are going to be automated right out of the system.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/venessawong/robots-are-coming-for-some-fast-food...
And if you are here on ZH...then I am preaching to the choir..but lower income people tend to eat at these fast food places more. So raise the minimum wage to $15...and you get prices going up that affect these people with their food purchases. This is going to get real viscious. THESE JOBS WERE NOT INTENDED TO SUPPORT A FAMILY!! THEY ARE FOR TEENAGERS TO ENTER THE WORK FORCE...and have some extra cash.
If a robot can do your job... get off your ass and quit asking for stolen gubmint cheese.
I've had some co-workers whose job could be done by a doorstop.
I know some people who are LESS useful than a door stop, but know how to game the various "harrassment" programs, so management run in fear of their jobs/lawsuits
Whooooaaa, Billy. At least you can get rid of a doorstop. You can NEVER get rid of a gubmint worker.
Nice.
I know some bad mother fuckers in the UAW that would like to have a word with you! I can list a ton of jobs that can and will be taken over by robots. Auto workers, CNC operators, Mold technicians, autoworkers, chefs, waitresses, construction workers, taxi cab drivers, burger flippers, lawyers, doctors, nurses, surgeons, astronauts, truck drivers, dairy farmers, cattle ranchers...the list can go on and on...real estate agents, open software can replace government functions and also replace day traders and speculators, miners, babysitters, prostitutes, airline pilots, airline stewardesses, road construction workers....fishermen...firemen....policemen....you on that list yet, you crass mother fucker?
I'm in Portland too. I bet this will pass. It's going to fuck over a lot of people. What ever happened to the good old days of: "Get a job, get some skills, get a better job, hone your skills, etc."? Guess that's too fuckin hard nowadays.
do you mean the job that was shipped overseas or the one that is being done by an illegal being paid under the table?
I don't know what to say to that. I haven't been out of a job since I was 15.
We're you guys complaining when your stock options were roaring to infinity as American corporations moved middle class jobs over seas in order to boost stock prices and "reduce consumer prices"? No? Then shut the fuck up, there are no more blue color jobs to support a family on! People like you encouraged them to all go to China so your stock prices would go up! And here you, complaining about the consequences that you cheered while you made stacks....ohh the humanity.
CONSUMERS demanded and still demand that companies move overseas by REFUSING to buy only made in the USA products. They REFUSE to buy products that are twice as expensive becasue they are made in the USA. Companies do what consumers demand. Consumers are demanding lower prices so companies either go out of business by not lowering prices or they give consumers lower prices by moving overseas where wages are low and government regulation (other costs) light.
Damn we have some economic morons on ZH.
Ever hear of Say's Law, fool?
Creepy... Consumers did not demand NAFTA and GATT. Ross Perot understood what would happen.
Yes, they did by insisting on buying the lowest priced item instead of the item made in the USA.
I need everyone to put their thinking caps on. I have been preaching this for years, almost got dismissed from class once because of it.
Minimum wage hikes only serve 1 purpose. To increase taxes: SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Payroll, etc......
How dare you question the cbo and bls??? Are you insane??? How could our loyal overlords ever lie to us about immesurable statistics???
How dare you question the cbo and bls??? Are you insane??? How could our loyal overlords ever lie to us about immesurable statistics???
Repetition of an unsuccessful action is a sign of insanity.
so say zero of the 92,000,000+ out of work Americans
And the stock market is still all good... and oil is down.. and gas...
Bwahahahaha You cant make this shit up....
There is nothing in this article that we did not already know.
The problem is how do you unwind such a monstrosity when households have grown and "functioned" around such a set up, without creating a riot.
You don't. You don't unwind something like this voluntarily.
Just sit back and allow the dream of higher and higher equities lift you from your armchair and whisk you away to nirvana.
One solution seems to be to put a business man in charge and start with United States Environmental Protection Agency.
Unwind one agency and many others will crumble.
(catalytic converters on Komatsu s indeed.)
"You don't unwind something like this voluntarily."
See "Greece".
oh, the horror, the horror.. the very idea that working class americans might work less and get more ....the horror...the horror...
By "get more", in this case, you mean "picking the pockets of taxpayers more".
Neither of you get it.
There's no honorable "working class Americans" or honorable "taxpayers" anymore (if there ever was). There's only clueless fucking 'Mericans living off the fat of the rest of the world, thanks to no morality and an arsenal of weapons.
Anyone who interacts in a voluntary way with others, doesn't initiate violence and trades value for value acts morally.
Stop making sense
the cognitive dissonance hurts
the free shit army breeders of criminals never had it so good. keep paying for your own destruction suckers, aka get back to work.
Hell ya I'd never be able to live the lifestyle I do If I worked and got paid a decent wage. Obama is crazy. They should have impeached him a long time ago.
Impeached him??? This leech class (47%) wants to put that kneegrow hero on Mt. Rushmore.
DUH!!!!
Obama wants the shift the burden from the public sector to the private sector. So what?
Put prices up to cover the costs... just like you would do with higher food costs...
Who's John Galt?
Though fictional, probably smarter than 99% of ZH's (100% of those here less than a year) since he was smart enough to quit feeding the beast and enjoy the demise of the country......
Hmmm.... Cog Dis, are you John Galt?
$15 p/h times 10 hours per day = $150 times 5 days per week = $750 times 4* = $3,000 per month times 12 = $36,000 per year.
Now that figure is a good 3 week holiday for a family of 4.
Where does the $69,000 kick in?
Starting in 1970 and moving on through today, had wages kept pace with inflation and CEO wage increase, in order to maintain a CEO to employee wage ratio of roughly 25:1, the American minimum wage should be $26.00/hr. But by all means zerohedge keep championing the CEO to worker ratio of 475:1, the largest gap in the world by as wide a margin as the ratio itself. You fuckers need to pick a side. Worst fair weather fans I've ever seen.
Fuck Banks! Fuck CEO's! Fuck politicians! Fuck the workers! Fuck me! That should be this sites new slogan. That or "We don't really stand for anything or anyone, just BTFD on 7.25/hr and STFU!"
What a bullshit argument. Nice red herring. You could've just cited inflation and then shut the fuck up after that.
Wow thanks for explaining why its a bullshit argument fuck stick. Dumb fucker. Hell even if wal mart wanted to pay everyone $20/hr all they would need to do is raise the prices of macaroni and cheese .10 in every fucking store. What an extra ten fucking cents for your Mac and cheese dinner too salty?
10 cents eh? Macaroni & Cheese?
I know a Wally World manager type and will pass this on...
It's the CEO comparison part of your nonsense that I was talking about, fuckstick. I should make X because that guy makes Y. What that guy makes is irrelevant. The CEO of my last company worked his way up from an outside salesman...busted his ass all the way to the top. Burger flippers are burger flippers. If they want to make more money they could try to stand out from the crowd and work their way up the ladder.
If your argument is about inflation and wages not keeping up with it, fine, but cut the worker vs CEO crap.
Fucking suck it anal cunt. Sorry it's a Washington Post article and the numbers are a bit lower than I quoted from the top of my head. But I seen stats from 2015 not 2014 like these. So its cool that CEO pay increases with inflation, just not American wages? Good to know you fascist fuck.
. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/25/the-pay-gap-b...
The cost of Mac and cheese goes up a penny to get a person making enough to stop receiving food stamps. http://twentytwowords.com/walmart-paid-living-wage-cost-almost-nothing-s...
There you go again...CEO vs worker, Class warfare nonsense. And don't think I don't know what you're doing by just choosing a huge conglomerate like Walmart to try and strengthen your argument. Most American companies are not the size of Wally World.
The problem is the money (currency) and its diminishing purchasing power. Increasing the price of a box of mac and cheese is just treating the symptoms, not the disease.
And let me ask you this...does any fault lie with the Walmart worker for not striving to be more than a Walmart worker? Maybe they shouldn't start a family if they only make minimum wage.
I agree with those points. Truly I do, but we don't have a middle class. So how is it acceptable that CEO wages follow the curve of inflation and not the worker? It's not a CEO versus worker argument, its a why didn't the wages keep pace with eahc other? I would think you would want less money concentrated into fewer hands, not the other way as you suggest. Once people get so much money it then becomes easier for them to influence government to favor their corporation over others. I see it as more of a checks and balance system. The more money people have the less money corporations/CEOs have to use to influence the political system....otherwise we get what we have now....that's how I see it.
"So how is it acceptable that CEO wages follow the curve of inflation and not the worker?"
Wrong question. The RIGHT question is: How is it acceptable that nominal tax revenues follow the curve of inflation at the samie time the central bank (an arm of government) controls the money supply? This is the mechanism whereby bankers and bureaucrats FORCE a better income for themselves, while the average worker sees the purchasing power of his wage steadily eroded. The Fed's 2% inflation "target" is the lynchpin of the entire scheme. It is designed to protect the bankers and the bureaucrats, to the detriment of every single non-entitled wage earner/tax payer. This horrific political and economic structure is further reinforced by the power of the 47% to vote themselves a higher nominal income. The GREATEST period in history for domestic middle class incomes was 1870 to 1900, when there was huge amounts of economic volatility, but a large portion of the immense productivity gains occuring at the time went to wages earners via PRICE DEFLATION. Deflation is the ANSWER (don't tell the bankers and bureaucrats), not the problem.
hehe. WTF, that guy called you an "anal cunt" ? I think you touched a nerve. The minimum wage in 1964 was 1.25, or since it was 1964, 5 silver quarters, which, according to coinflation.com, are worth 2.67 apiece. That equals 13.35. THe problem is that has been done to our money over the past decades, not minimum wage, which, since there doesn't appear to be any mention of a 'minimum wage' in the constitution, isn't any business of the federal govt anyway.
Ha-ha the constitution!? When did that thing even fucking matter anymore? Seriously, like when? The gubmint is also supposed to be the only body that coins money too, how's that working out? And why do I care about the price of silver again? I don't think the price of silver correlates with minimum wage keeping pace with inflation, at all.
And the reason I choose wal mart is because its Americas largest employer. If GM was still America largest employer, I'd use them as an example, but they aren't...besides your stawks are performing way better now that all those high paying GM jobs went to Mexico and non union shops in Kentucky and god only knows where else....so you should be happy, but you aren't....why....?
Actually, my stocks are doing shitty because I suck at picking stocks LOL.
And I'm very happy...sitting on the balcony, puffing a heater, enjoying the fruits of my 25 years of busting ass. I just get annoyed with people who don't know how to form a coherent argument. So, I think I'll stop letting you kill my buzz now.
Have a pleasant evening.
It's really not that hard of an argument...but iI am pretty tired. But, why isnt it okay, in your mind, for the wages of workers to increase at the same pace as that of the CEO? And don't you think it's better to not have that much money concentrated in a few hands in order to keep it out of politics easier? That's it. That's the argument. Tell me why you think workers wages shouldn't keep pace with the CEO. I'm going to use a rough example its not 100% accurate but it will do in a pinch.
1970 CEO/Worker ration of 25:1
2015 CEO/Worker ratio of 375:1
Let's put accuracy aside, but these numbers are a pretty decent representation of reality. Explain to me why in your opinioin, that its okay that the gap is that large and explain why you think it shouldn't be corrected. Also explain why you think this is good for politics or bad for the political system.
Actually, CEOs may be 'worth' more now as most companies are just large fianacial engineering experiments and don't actually produce many things of value. So the CEO with his knowledge of finance has more impact than a burger flipper. Just saying.....
If you seen it? It must be true. Yikes.
Mac'n'Cheese. Mac'n'Cheese Y'all.
But by all means zerohedge keep championing the CEO to worker ratio of 475:1
Look at the chart. I would submit that markets were relatively freer in 1965 when the CEO to worker pay ratio was only 20:1. The deeper we get into the Keynesian paradise the more wealth floats to the top.
https://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_1920w/Boston/2011-2020/2014/10/26/BostonGlob...
Of course it was a better market. The market we have now is a fraud, clearly. But how did it happen? Why is the gap so huge? Are companies just using CEO earning to fluff stock prices and in turn inflate market value of said stock. I see iit as that. They don't trust you with the money so they give it back to themselves in order to keep perpetuating this madness, over and over and over...
The US has moved from an industrial economy to one based on FIRE. Tangible manufactured goods are not easily susceptible to manipulation, you either make a good product or you don't so you'll need to adequately compensate your suppliers and employees. But since 1913 bankers have had the power not only to manipulate their product -- money -- but to create it out of thin air. As the stranglehold of Keynesianism increased so did the FIRE economy and the power of those who ride the cheap money train. The products brought to you by FIRE economy depend more on wheeling and dealing with the right people than good components and good employees. The most valuable man in the FIRE economy is the connected CEO because that's the nature of the business. That's what I see in the chart.
The US has moved from an industrial economy to one based on FIRE. Tangible manufactured goods are not easily susceptible to manipulation, you either make a good product or you don't so you'll need to adequately compensate your suppliers and employees. But since 1913 bankers have had the power not only to manipulate their product -- money -- but to create it out of thin air. As the stranglehold of Keynesianism increased so did the FIRE economy and the power of those who ride the cheap money train. The products brought to you by FIRE economy depend more on wheeling and dealing with the right people than good components and good employees. The most valuable man in the FIRE economy is the connected CEO because that's the nature of the business. That's what I see in the chart.
I presume that the U.S.'s industrial prowess was simply all of our doing as well? Couldn't have had anything to do with the fact that the rest of the world's manufacturing facilities were destroyed... Rather, it's just how exceptional we are as americans.
The rest of the world rebuilt (or industrialized) and we had to move into all that was left... free trade agreements killed the last bastions of what used to be, although protectionism has a fairly short shelf life anyway.
In short, the concept that we decided how to shape our economy, free from external pressure, is nonsense. To the extent you see a correlation with financialization, including debasement of the currency, that is largely a remedial measure, not a cause... aside from the fact that trade deficits and currency devaluation are necessary components of reserve currency status... with exceptionalism comes a price.
I never suggested that The United States economy exists in a vacuum. Furthermore you ignore the effects of Keynesian economics on not only the US but the rest of the world as well.
Progressives ongoing quest for the perfect price of a cheeseburger!..lol.
Not the perfect cheeseburger (perish the thought!) or the perfect wage or the perfect cost of living of cheeseburger makers which is always in flux with the perfectly fucked progressive taxation and subsidy system...but the perfect price of a cheeseburger.
I guess its whatever the market will bear, which is apparently a $20.00 subsidized Happy Meal for all subsidized minmum wage employees traveling in a car subsidized to Hertz going on vacation to a subsidized Motel 6 in fucking Hoboken!
Don't laugh, subsidized vacations & cruises for "the poor" are coming, suck it up serfs ;-)
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Buahahahahahaha!!!
This just can't go on further.
I'm a branch manager in Alaska, where the labor pool is already full of low prospects.
All the employees I've had that are under 30 sucked labor wise (for our yard position).
My inside sales/yard guy is 50ish, awesome employee, probabley will never see someone with that work ethic again.
But one thing I've noticed is how stupid a lot of these guys are. (That's why they are yard workers at age 27)
You take away the cell phone and you'll have a riot. Take away EBT and you'll have class warfare. I give this country 5 years if that.
Are you hiring?
You still looking for something that pays more than minimum wage?
Imagine their horror if minimum wage was $25 hour.
really? suppose there is a first time for everything, anyone checked the weather channel for the forecast in hell, arctic vortex due no-doubt
Oh, my! SOME workers in Seattle that are affected by the higher minimum wage law ... out of probably tens of thousands ... are asking for less hours! WOW! And this is conclusive proof that we shouldn't have minimum wage laws!
Some, some, some, some ... everyone has an antidote. It would actually be a shock if not more than one person out of tens of thousands didn't want less hours for those reasons. But of course the right wing radio idiots and their followers jump all over it like the fools that they are, so anxious to believe that things are just the way they say they would be.
Z
Anecdote, not antidote. But, since you brought it up....I wish we had an antidote for your line of thinking.
well, probably didn't finish skool - since ya know, can get one of them $15 barista jobs without knowing how to spell, or much of anything else, and it's enough to cover all the tattoos and piercings, so its all cool man. . . Spelling is overrated man......
don't need no edukation - the man will take care of him
I swear Meat H., this site is turning in to Huffpo
Agreed. It's the market value of one's skills, or lack thereof, that sets the wage. If all you know how to do is flip burgers, well, enjoy living in your car.
Must have been nice growing up in the 1950's where a job flippi g burgers was enough to pay your way through college. Tell me, what was it like 60 years ago? What did it feel like getting out of college with a good degree, debt free, plentiful jobs and a bright future? I'd really like to know because you clearly have no fucking clue what its like in today's America.
Nice try.
I flipped burgers in high school, in the late 80's, knowing that it would be a good way to enter the workforce and gain experience. I wasn't delusional, thinking that I could raise a family on $4.35/hr. Then I waited tables in college and used student loans to pay my tuition. Then, when I graduated from college I started at the bottom rung of a company and worked my way up to a very good paying career with great benefits, paying off my $20,000 in student loans along the way. It's called hard work, accountability, and saying no to one's self and not buying the shiny car or expensive clothes. I did all of it myself and never expected anyone to give me more just because.
I do have a fucking clue what it's like in today's America, but guess what, paying burger flippers and cashiers more money isn't going to fix it. Our problems go far beyond the minimum wage and CEO's salaries.
One of the most valuable lessons I'll teach my kids is that nobody owes them a damn thing just because they exist. If you want something then go bust your ass, be better than the next guy, and don't complain if somebody has more than you.
$20,000?! Did you drop out after your first year or something!? Good luck getting a good education for 20 fucking grand!! Okay let's say your a youth of America today. You know you've got to get an education so lets say you get a decent one in software engineering, since you seem like a smart guy. Okay, now you have 75k in debt and a job market with unemployment anywhere from 8%-30% or more depending on what you believe. You need a car! Your smart so you go to get a used one...another 5k...now your 80k in the whole and working at Starbucks with a degree in software engineering... You need a better job...uh oh!!!time to move to a market that supports your degree in a totally saturated market of over qualified applicants!! Oh no!! Now you need somewhere to live but how are you going to pay for rent in Austin ,texas? It's 1600/month!!! Yikes!!! Better get some credit cards to help pay for your fucking food unless you want to dumpster dive!! Now you want a girlfriend.....and a family...and a house...and your already 100k in the fucking hole!! Like I said, no fucking clue. I feel bad for people today. America is a third world country. No doubt.
See? Our problems go far beyond minimum wage.
Dude!!! We've had a minimum wage since the abolishment of child fucking labor! Let's just bring back child labor and let the free market figure it out lol!!! No....it has everything to do with minimum wage. The PROBLEM is that it didn't follow the same curve of progress upwards and stay concurrent with the CEO. You're acting as if no one would ever make more than $26/hr......hell I make $250/hr doing contract work for indoor growers!!!! No what that 26bucks represents is, in order to have a standard of living equal to when the laws went into effect, it would need to be that much. It would also make for a much healthier political climate as I outlined in previous comments. You're the kind of person that not only goes and fetches his massas whip, but you're willing to whip your own blood up when he is done using iit one you!
His arguments are the same as I've heard from somone who has never made more than minimum wage and feels he is entitled to more...
And naturally he is so brainwashed as to completely ignore the devaluation of our currency by the Federal Reserve. And of course this...
http://www.freemansperspective.com/money-issues-in-the-us/
First of all, I don't believe many of these stories of these very likely exagerated stories of hard work and self-suffiency that you clowns spout out. Second of all, it would be a true rarity that someone worked at a fast food place as "a good way to enter the workforce and gain experience". Third of all, take your self-proclaimed attributes of hard work and grow up in India and tell me how much of a self-made man you truly are.
Z
The market value of one's skills depends upon the job market. And when the job market creates fewer and fewer decent paying jobs, it decreases one's chances of making decent money. That shouldn't be hard to understand, but when you are dealing with the supposedly rough-and-tumble, supposedly self-made men of zero-hedge with their unsubstantiated stories of self-sufficient heroism don't expect to encounter logical thinking.
Z
Z, some one like you could go large in the Pay Day Loan field.
Consider it.
It will ultimately pay better than being paid by the word posted.
Oh, my! SOME workers in Seattle that are affected by the higher minimum wage law ... out of probably tens of thousands ... are asking for less hours!
But those who have been receiving benefits based on a lower wage will likely lose some benefits for earning a higher wage if they don't cut their hours. The value of the benefits lost may exceed the gain in earned income. Those who ask for less hours can protect themselves but those who don't will be punished. The "workers ask for less hours" story highlights a moral hazard with real world implications regardless of the anecdotal nature of that story.
HA. HA. That $40,000 Bermuda Triangle is going to be a big problem.
because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty
See how programmed the FSA is? Poverty. Nigga, pleeze. Get in your time machine and go to Cambodia, circa 1975. That's poverty, you lazy pieces of shit.
There's a bipartisan campaign to bring Cambodia circa 1975 to a town near you. Probably tucked away inside the TPP that nobody is allowed to see.
Naw dawg, poverty iz I'm outta minutes on my plan and I only got a few grams a weed left.
I often hear alot of inner city folk complaining about how we still live under a system of white supremacy and "the man" is keeping them in poverty. Funny how I can watch videos of these people talking their shit on YouTube, posted from their smart phones or computer. Must be rough living in those third world conditions...
In case everyone posting on this thread hasn't guessed, wealth is perceived as a relative measure...
Unintended consequence? You really believe that?
It's regular fucking workers utopia
Oh no - fuck this shit. They wanted raises - take the damn thing and shut the hell up. Everyone - who had 1 brain cell - knew this was going to happen. Get to work or get your ass back to Guacamole or where ever.
$15 dollars? Why that number, whats so special about $15 - is that some carefully calculated formulaic number that maximizes the income of unskilled workers and minimizes evil CEO pay or is it just some arbitrary number some fucking government worker pulled out of his/her ass?? If $15 is good, isn't 30 better? or $50? Why the fuck not - make it $50/hour for ignorant unskilled barista's for fucks sake.
It sure as hell isn't a free market negotiated amount. Unionize all these motherfuckers and get them some real benefits!
Yes $14.79 or $14.99 would be more credible.
The $36k per annum that derives from the $15p/h ; is it taxable? The law of intended or unintended consequences for example when factoring in the $2,800 monthly rents quoted in a certain state on Z/H yesterday leads me suspiciously to believe that the serfs can no longer meet the rent requirements of Obama's masters.
The MSM are now adding programmes called ' Benefit Scroungers ', ' How to get a Council House', 'Skivers' and similarly class motivated SHIT in addition to their regular Kardashee Ass. Ready Steady Cook, Grandmas latest Fanny Tattoo and Make up a 7 letter word with just one vowel Quiz ( must be Ukrainian ).
These ZERO hour Contracts where you might or possibly not receive a call offering you 8 hours work for 3 days is not the way forward and hence the migrant influx.
Meanwhile we're all divided over this sick joke of Government enabling BankCorp.
To prove i'm no work shy or anti capitalist a couple of years back i received $3 million equivalent for 5 weeks work. Drank, gambled, socially entertained the bulk of it and wasted the rest.
It's a political number. A nice round number, it sounds good on TV and looks good in print.
http://mysticalnumbers.com/number-15
http://mysticalnumbers.com/
Tarot #15 is the most interesting.
Yep, political.
Ran the numbers some while back. Most government bennies cut out at 150% of the Federal poverty line.
So, based on our new 29 hour work week, a single adult with no dependents would stop getting government subsidies at $11.59 an hour.
Of course, that wouldn't knock out all the single parents/one income families.
The government has been subsidizing businesses. Sure, maybe they set the bar. OTOH, people living in the streets, thieving, rioting, etc.; not exactly good for business.
Government is beyond broke. Raising the minimum wage can help reduce what they have to pay out in entitlement spending. And most of the big boys (MIC/FIRE/Edu/Health) don't have that many low wage workers.
So they can cut spending and stick it to the service sector. Most small businesses are service/food related.
The problem is not the minimum wage worker...the problem is the system that has closed down 80 000 manufacturing jobs, sent them to the third world, then broughtnthe third world here to drive wages down further. Meantime the plutocracy extrwcts the system in trillions of dollars, wagws remain stagnant while costs, fees, taxes go up....its a kind of blindness not to see the disparity and bitch when the worker bees try and cope.
MIND BOGGLING. PERHAPS if the central banks and intl cartels had not been so busy extracting every last dime to themselves...this would not be going on. Paul Volcker said in 1979 American living standards and wages had to decline so the rest of the world could rise...I thougt free market capitalism was about creating a bigger pie...not destroying those who want a piece of it. Meantime the .001 percent continue extracting, continue to hold most of the wealth but you are bitching about minimum wage workers trying to stay afloat..I can hardly waitbfor the big implosion...watch big mouth plutcrats and ignorant jump out of windows when they discover they have been screwed over as mu ch as the service worker and the factory worker.
Ps closed down 80k manufacturing plants and 6 million jobs.
You're still being modest with those numbers.
It’s what happens when the government imposes a restriction on the labor market that normally wouldn’t be there, and marginal businesses get hit the hardest, and usually those are small, neighborhood businesses
No. This is what happens when government subsidizes unliveable wages with welfare. It amounts to a subsidy to greedy companies. Just once in my life, I'd like to see a holistic discussion about a social issue somewhere other than Alex Jones. Can we all agree that welfare is acting as a subsidy to companies here? Can we also agree that with a grossly mismanaged economy, simply throwing a bunch of poor people into the street to starve is going to have truly ugly social consequences?
Well all right as long as you're not asking those who caused the problem -- the government -- to fix the problem.
Well, since it came from Fox news it must be true. Notice the use of "some" everywhere, some workers have...some restaurants added 15% and no longer "encourage" patrons to tip...some restaurants have closed - but won't admit its the minimum wage (maybe because it wasn't, they close all the freagin' time). This is typical Fox News stuff, I'm actually surprised to see it here. Tonight O'Reilly will be doing a talking points segment on the downside of the minimum wage while the fat guy on the biz channel will be doing the classic: "Will the minimum wage destroy the restaurant business in Seattle and everywhere else?", "Will people buy drugs and liquor with this new found income? "Are we sponsoring terrorism thru the minimum wage?", etc. Its all too predictable, the English dickhead (Varney?) will be talking how this will destroy all retail businesses that count on "lower" wages to compete - he can use McDs as an example.
What would news be without that all important entertainment component? Thanks for keeping us informed Fox, can't count on the rest of the liberal media to be "fair and balanced" like you guys!
Is it untrue that those who receive benefits based on a lower wage will lose benefits if they earn more? Will the benefit loss exceed the gain in wages? Isn't the bigger story about those who don't cut their hours but are then punished for their good behavior? What does human nature tell us about the sustainability of the status quo when such a moral hazard is present?
I'll be interested in the future Basic Food program enrollment numbers, which are statewide, not just Seattle. Pointing out that enrollment barely moved during the same month the minimum wage increased is meaningless. It's the first fucking month. Not that I support the minimum wage, but this conservative propoganda is as bad as the liberal garbage. It's fucking annoying political bullshit. The two-party system needs to be abolished. Someone above said, "You can't make this shit up." I question that assertion. Fucking junk "stats".
"While the claims are difficult to track, state stats indeed suggest few are moving off welfare programs under the new wage"
that ain't all goin on in seattle.
agenda 21 in action.
http://offgridsurvival.com/seattle-trying-to-ban-land-ownership-in-name-of-equality/
>the single mom is better off earnings gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045.
What happens in Greece now will happen in America too. In 5 years, 10 years, 15 years... Who knows? But it'll happen.
Now Greece doesn't have money to provide lavish welfare money to any single mom. Essentially, a single American mom in the same situation will have to live on $29,000 instead of $57,327. She won't have skills to get a decent job that will pay $69,000. Where is her husband, by the way? Did she think that the government would always provide her with money?
the problem is if the woman makes 30k she loses ALL her benies, why quit a 60k "job" for one paying 30? phase out the benies as she makes more. so there is an incentive to work and earn her own way.
Fox News report.....that is itself is an oxymoron.
Fox News report.....that is itself an oxymoron.
USA is massively over-populated with the imported poverty of latin america AND the home-grown failures. Entitlement programs subsidize incompetence, mental & physical laziness, failure and parasitism.
The ONLY solution is for everyone to be REQUIRED to fully earn all the income required to pay ALL of their own expenses, AND to recycle all the failures - same as in the natural world.
Then we would have a society without failures, without entitlement programs, and without the earnings theft that pays for them.
That's Terrorism right there Prober.
How will .Gov and WallyMart get their Kick-backs?
Bah, I live here and SEA is getting S.F'd by the ChiCom and techies.
15 an hr? Here? Downtown? Forget it unless your living 12 in a shack under the bridge.
In fact most kids are making much more (babysitters are 20 bucks/hr- start - and you throw a 50 tip if you want her again).
The market will sort this by itself via cost of living Darwinism.
And as someone noted earlier these are teenager summer jobs fffs.
See WillyGroper's post above...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-22/obamas-minimum-wage-utopia-just...
This is caused by an all or nothing welfare system. people work but as they reach a certain level, they lose all or almost all their benefits. NO ONE commenting on this site would quit a 2500/month job for one paying 1500, so why would you expect "poor" people to do the same, get an extra 100 bucks at work and at the same time lose a 1000 in benefits. no one would do that. We need a GRADUATED system where you lose 100 bucks in benies for every hundrd you make. No mother ( yes, usually a single variety) is going to put her kids at risk,especially losing health coverage. I don't care how she got there, she's there now and since we can't push the kids back in.....
but the all or nothing system keeps people in the system so the system can grow, hire more people, enabling othrs to get promoted, scream they are over worked and need pay raises etc etc. Graduated system,lose a littelas you go until you don't need it any more. i.e. keep medicaid until X per moth is earned, then a copay until y full premiums at z. but that would shut down the welfae industry so....guees it won't happen. so until then some people will work fewer hours, they would be iddiots not to.
My 2nd job as an engineer paid less than the welfare cutoff. First one was just embarrassing.
Pendejo Maricon Obama se meta para el culo.
y te gusta mucho. no?
Automate those fast food shit holes and put 3 personnel to run the joint with quality food. Nuff said. .
Here is a good one on why the Federal imposed minimum wage in Puerto Rico has helped its economy to go into the dumper - and racking up unpayable 52 billion debt.
http://www.economics21.org/commentary/federal-minimum-wage-killing-puert...
JoJoJo Untapped labor Power? Puerto Rico? Have the hookers gone on strike again?
When both sides of an argument make sense then you should realise .Gov has everyone where they want them.
Real GDP has nosedived, never to return and hence Prices in the US for most products are on a par with the EU (after all we're all buying the same Chinese Products ).
10+ years ago $5k spent on certain items in the US was a saving of up to 60% for same items purchased in the EU.
The penny is dropping as BankCorp/.Gov can no longer subsidise the standard of living ( on the backs of the ROW ) you've become accustomed to.
Only the self-sufficient among you will survive. HH has demonstrated it can be done but the soft-belly which makes up the majority will be lost.
Those disabled scooters will not materialise for the millennials and like the physically challenged inbred off-spring in Eastern Europe who never leaves the family basement or sees the light of day so it will be.
For details on how you can escape the coming SHTF moment send a Cheque of $15.00 (or an hours salary ) to me WTFUD at LONGSHOT , NO CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN. BOX 666
It should be lowered to $2.50 an hour,with all benifits cut off,so these mother fuckers start thinking twice before knocking out babies they can't support..
Same thing as when people will apply for jobs but never take one because of welfare benefits. These dumb fucks don't realize they probably could make more than starting wage within a year if they allowed themselves.
And be let go just as quick, and have nothing...........
Well duh! What the fuck else do you expect from government who proclaims that they should take care of you just vote for us? You expect freedom?
It's called govt dependency to subsidize the fact that their policies are A direct result of the inability to live your lives so they give you subsidies to make up for the increase cost of living just as long as you don't go out and get a job that helps get you out of poverty.
It's called math. It's called 2 - 3 = -1. But you don't know why that is because you've been given a "free education" brought to you by the same people who wants you to be dependent upon them to better you lives .
But you are to stupid to think for yourselves to understand that this is purposeful. Think drug dealer. The first hit is free. Then when you come back addicted is when they charge you
Fucking morons!!!
The FSA will always figure out a way to get into the wallets of workers.
"Evidence is surfacing..."
I can't think of a better way than this to sugarcoat some serious bullshit I was about to shovel at my readers.
Evidence is surfacing indeed.