This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Jim Grant On Gold's Liquidation Sale: A "Vexing But Wonderful Opportunity"
Don’t tell Jim Grant, the publisher of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer, that gold is a hedge.
The author and publisher said the metal is much more dynamic; providing a trifecta of price, value and sentiment, and investors should have exposure to it.
“[G]old is an investment in monetary and financial disorder – not a hedge. You look around the world and you see exchange rates are properly disorderly, when you look around the world of lending and borrowing -- we are in a regime of price control by another name, so-called zero percent rates and quantitative easing by the world central banks – we are in one of the most radical periods of monetary experimentation in the annals of money,” Grant told Kitco News Thursday.
Grant added that it could be that it all works out, albeit a very “low probability.”
“You want to have exposure to the reciprocal asset of the paper assets that are the most popular - so gold, to me, is now the conjunction of price, value and sentiment, and I am very bullish indeed.”
Gold prices are on track for its longest run of losses since 1996. After reaching five-year lows this week, the metal was relatively quieter on Thursday with prices slightly rebounding on some bargain hunting in the spot market. Kitco’s spot gold was last up $0.60 at $1094.60 an ounce.
Grant summed up the gold selloff as “Mr. Market having a sale,” and added that the downward spiral is “terrifically vexing but a wonderful opportunity.”
He explained that no one knows the bottom for the metal and that should not be the sole focus.
“The important thing to recall is why those of us who own it, bought it. What is it about gold that ought to make it appealing – when it seems to be absolutely the thing you don’t want to have.” He added that gold thrives in the face of monetary turmoil, disorder and uncertainty, noting, “I think we have all three of these things.”
On the topic of U.S. Federal Reserve rate hikes, Grant said the central bank is in a hurry to raise rates.
“The Fed feels it must act just for institutional pride; but, money supply growth is dwindling, the turnover rate of money likewise, the only thing that is dynamic in the world of money and credit is the issuance of more and more dubiously sourced debt, and more and more lenient terms,” Grant said. “What debt does is two things: it pushes forward consumption and pushes back evidence of business failure,” he added.
Grant said he likes owning physical gold particularly South African Kruggerands. He added he is also the owner of “too many gold mining shares” for which he has, “a great deal of worry for the present but a great deal of conviction for the future.” Mining stocks have suffered even more since lower gold prices means less revenue per ounce of the metal for producers. The Market Vectors Gold Miners exchange-traded fund (GDX), which consists of stocks of gold-mining companies, was down $1.70, or 11%, to $13.72 on Thursday.
»
- 74221 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
As the price of gold falls, confidence in the dollar increases.
Despite her name, old Yeller wants gold to fall as much as possible to demonstrate the power of the Fed and the mighty dollar
They want the mines, ... so they are going to put the miners under.
Hmmm. I never thought of that. That would give them even more control over the price, even the physical price.
Any idea how low the price has to go for the mines to go belly up?
Don't necessarily need "belly up," as a low enough stock price will do the trick.
===> OLE YELLER Wins...
===> OLD YELLIN Wins...
I'd like to tongue punch Daniela's fart box
He added he is also the owner of “too many gold mining shares” for which he has, “a great deal of worry for the present but a great deal of conviction for the future.”
These guys are so useless... worse than useless. Hold going up, double hold all the way to the bottom, maybe break even in a couple years.
As long as Goldman ( and friends of the tribe) can naked short paper gold, collect the cash and then buy physical -- this downward slide will never end.
It will end when there's no more buyers.
wrong, it will end when someone who matters stands for delivery and gets 'Corzined'.
So it won't end... remember, Corzine walks the streets a free, and wealthy, man.
Corzine would be the issuing bank in my analogy and you are correct they will walk -- same as it ever was.
But Corzine did not "corzine" himself.
Had one of Corzine's victims been an individual with less than legal income stream, Corzine would be sharing Hoffa's fate right now.
you are a dirty boy
Just wondering....why Krugerrands?
Unlike Aussie Nuggets or Canadian Maple Leaves, Krugerrands are not 99,99% gold, but only ±92%. Sure, they contain 1 Troy Ounce/31,1 grams of gold, but the mix with Copper will make it more difficult to divide/melt/recast them, should a need arise.
I like the little Perth Mint "smuggler bars". Nice little lozenges, look like they'd be easy to swallow and poop out lol.
Krugs/American Gold Eagles made out of crown gold - the 22-karat, 92% gold / 3 % silver / 5% copper alloy - are more durable and wear resistant than coins made out of pure 24 karat 99.9 gold.
The 22-karat coins also make a really distinctive "ring" when they get hit by the Ringer made by Fisch.
http://thefisch.com/whyitworks#ringer_principle
Bacause unlike Canadian and Australian coins they do not have a picture of that ugly inbred cunt.
Having a little copper in them also makes them more durable for handling.
So how much lower do the stock prices have to fall? Are they close?
They want a strong dollar? Awesome. That means I get to keep buuying silver at these rock bottom prices while all over the world the price of gold and silver remains high.
Didn't think anyone would address this? Yes, ZH and all media are very dollar-centric when it comes to discussing price so let me if I may....
All fiat currency acts inversely to the dollar because the dollar is the reserve. So when we see strong dollar that means weak euro, yen, ruble, etc. Thusly gold in those currencies is much more expensive than in dollars. So gold is on sale, but only in the US. It is not on sale in Europe, or Russia, or India, or Japan.
You are exactly right, it is only on sale here where the dollar is strong relative to the rest of the field of fiats. Regardless, the countries that can are buying gold (and silver) in record amounts. So much so that mining has become (or, in some cases has always been) a "state" based organization - an NGO if u will. Sure they are listed and appear to be regular companies but they are not, the mines are hinged to the gubmint(s) where they dig or where they come from (or both). The Fed already has the mines under its thumb, let's face it, anything deemed important in terms of a natral resource is and has been completely controlled - free market my a$$.
In terms of taking complete control, they could do that at any time - they print money or add ,'s and 0's to digital currency, there isn't a "price point" that matters to the Fed, prices are completely irrelevent other than for managing perception. PMs will only return to normal after this system has crashed and burned to the ground, at that point (or just prior) we'll be incented to use SDRs as our cash - and the vast majority of that will be digital, a global currency is much more stable they'll say.
We are at the point where the only way the system will crash is if it does it itself and frankly, that is not likely unless and until they want it to, I believe they do want the system to fail so whatever the next stage of their eggregious plan can be instituted. We've (the people of the world) let this happen to such an extent that now they feel invincible - I think they are, it would take a mass movement like the world has never seen to break this system and the level of control that is exerted over all of us.
A crash is coming, we all know that, but is it the end of this system? Our opportunity will be to react, en masse and in force once that crash happens, will we, I think not. Most people are fucking clueless its scary, how many people actually buy gold and silver? A really, really, really small part of the poplation, at least here in the USA (India is different) that's the case and the USA is where "the fix", whatever it is (refusing to use fiat currency altogether?), has to happen for anything to really change.
Sorry for the ramble ZHers....
"while all over the world the price of gold and silver remains high."
As does the price of an apartment, a car, a loaf of bread, a jug of wine and so forth.
There's a difference between value and price, just as there is a difference between money and currency.
Few realise this.
I think you have pointed out the huge elephant in the room. This means gold in dollars MUST go down if the dollar strengthens against other currencies. Or have I misunderstood?
I've read that around $800 even the most efficient mines will feel the pain, but then you have to wonder what their hedging strategies were, that could prolong viable production time.
let's go to a musical!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rothschilds_(musical)
How much paper is a gold mine worth? Why not just print enough and stop with all the games if they want them so bad?
By "they" you mean the Fed. That is the most ridiculous thing I have read on ZH. So, let me get this straight, the Fed is going to either put the miners out of business, or directly or indirectly "own" the mines. Ok, so under the first scenario, there is no more gold production. What the hell do you think happens to the price of gold in that scenario? Second scenario, Fed "owns" the mines. What are they going to do? Run the mines 24/7 to try and produce more gold to drive the price down? C'mon, get real.
Yeah, it's getting hard to actually get physs cause its so useless that everybody is trying to buy some. No problem though, paper gold is easy to get and not nearly so barbaric.....
Smart Guy, for once on Kitco.
"As the price of gold falls, confidence in the dollar increases.
Despite her name, old Yeller wants gold to fall as much as possible to demonstrate the power of the Fed and the mighty dollar"
The Gold price does correlate w/ the value of the dollar. However, the Fed wants no part of a strong dollar. What they want is the illusion that there is a strong dollar, but in reality have inflation going thru the roof. At some point there will be the "a ha" moment by the sheople and dimwits who watch CNBC and manage money realize the Fed can't have it both ways.
Correction: the *dollar* gold price is correlated with the dollar. Gold is up 25% in the last 12 months in Brazilian real, up 5% in Euro, etc etc. As Jim says, it's the reciprocal of the paper stuff.
gold will rally when stocks FINALLY drop more than 10%. until then, hold off on buying.
ANOTHER "Buying opportunity"....LOL...buy all the way to the bottom...and, maybe, 28 years later, you'll break even...Talk to your Dad/Grandad about the 70's gold boom and 80's bust if you're too young or stupid to remember...It AIN'T different this time!
Gold had a nice bull run that ended with a Vertical Price Spike and a failed attempt to regain the high....HUGE SELL SIGNAL...seen it a million times in a million different stock charts...the party is over, 3 waves down coming...this is golds third wave down and the price is likely to approach the $900 range.
'$900'...!!!???
I am gravely disappointed... Didn't you hear - it's going to $250 by all reasonable accounts. Likely by the end of the year...
Gold should be a good long trade below $800.
$724 the likely low for this cycle.
And at $724, none of the dealers will have any phys left to sell.
There was plenty for sale at $250...
What does that imply for the dollar? Another 20% climb? Image what that will do to US exports.....
No, $250 is too low.
Let's do some math.
Gold price 1919: $20.67
Cumulative inflation since 1919: 1323.10% http://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=1&year=1919
Gold "fair value" today: $294.15
The 1300% is just a number. I can point to things that have increased in price by much more than 13x since 1919.
Even using the 1300% inflation, there are many other factors that must be considered when establishing a fair price of gold.
How about the debt levels? Private and government. Also, what about the amount of paper gold held by those who think they actually own gold? This artificial supply has an impact on the price. Money supply is another factor.
Too many factors to name here but the real price will ultimately be determined by the supply/demand equation when people only want to hold the real thing.
It's not just a number, it's bullshit. Candybars that cost 10 cents around late 60's now cost $1.00 or more. That indicates 1000% inflation just from 1965 or 1970. go back 10 years from there and you have 2000%
When interests rates go up and stay there, then it will be no different.
Although I agree with your assesment. The debt loads and economic indicators are worrisome. Add in the manipulation and you have a pendulum that is artificially being held back.
At this point it seems to be a play against the crash in the economy, not some sort of investment that will pay of cyclically. As crazy as a world crash seems, it feels like we are seing the iceburg and going full steam ahead.
Comparing gold to shares of common stock.
I was wondering when I would read something hilarious this morning from a FED troll.
Can you really trust a guy that wears a bow tie?
Can you really trust a guy that wears a bow tie?
Of course, if he looks like a total dweeb.
That's not gold. That's BIS dumplings, China commodity financing and Citi derivatives. 100 times leveraged crap, like stocks. Give it time, gold and silver don't rot.
I agree. And then I buy some more. The bottom line for me, is that so long as rates remain zero bound, I cna't be compelled to invest in a market I no longer understand. Its really that simple. So that when things, don't make any sense any longer, Grant is right, you're investing in instability - kind of like trying to make yourself antifragile I suppose (Taleb). I aint ever gonna be rich buying gold - I will be the first to admit that. However, I won't ever go broke buying it either. Not so long as central banks keep butchering fiat. And given debt measures sported by every developed country in the world - I don't see this insanity ever changing.
By the way, I still post it - because its the most lucid thing anybody has every said about Keynesian monetary policy ANYWHERE - EVER:
"The FED can change what things look like, but, the FED can never change what things really are." (J. Grant - on CNBC, December 2013)
Jim Grant may look like a dweeb but I respect him very much. Very bright guy.
I agree with your commentary Pareto. At ZIRP and other very serious market manipulations, I view gold as a good way to save. It is a multi year buy and hold.
Property rentals were good in my area but now overpriced, risk too high for narrow returns now. There isnt much to invest in anywhere. The only good news is that is when things start changing politically. Bad news is the final years of haircuts and restructure are going to be a real bitch.
I reckon the guys who were buying at $280/$300 are shitting their pants that they'll only have triple their stake at $900
No, they "shitting their pants" because they now realise that had they put $300 into Apple, instead of gold, it would now be worth $3000.
Apple today, Palm tomorrow. (although I hope not cuz my son-in-law works for them)
I entered at $550. And I denominate my holdings in ounces, not dollars.
$650-$700 based on a 100 year inflation adjusted price chart.
Yeah, I saw that on Bloomberg. It may be accurate, but I'd have to look at it a little closer. Gold was kept at a fixed price for a long period, that could skew the numbers. I've read that gold would have had to take out
$2300 to be equivalent in price to the '79-'80 spike, so if that is the case it seems many things are over valued.
Bloomberg? Eeeewww!!!
I came up with that on my own using basic charting techniques, but it's interesting that they arrived at the same numbers. FWIW, I believe Martin Armstrong put the same numbers out as well.
dup.
"It AIN'T different this time!"
Yep - everything is exactly the same. And the best part is, it always will be.
/s
"It's different this time"...BULL FUCKEN SHIT!
Reagan/Obama:
>going to bankrupt the nation through deficit spending.
>War, War, War....going to kill us all.
>Confronting the Russians and their "evilness"
>Flood of illegals and Amnesty for all of them...
>What I am describing now is a plan and a hope for the long term–the march of freedom and democracy(Reagan)
>The fight against terror.
May 31, 1986
"History is likely to record that 1986 was the year when the world, at long last, came to grips with the plague of terrorism...blah, blah, blah...I therefore urge the Senate to promptly approve the revised treaty and reinforce the momentum building against terrorism. With good sense, courage, and international cooperation, our struggle against terrorism will be won. And the United States will lead the way into a freer and more peaceful tomorrow. "
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=37376
Same Bullshit, Different players.
Why the need to scream (and invoke 'Reagan') when you are so confident of your positions...?
Reagan was at the helm the last time gold was going to "$5000 an ounce"...that is why I "invoked him".
The 80's and the 2010's have a lot in common when it comes to the argument for "$5000 gold"...and both times gold plummeted...big bull runs are ALWAYS followed by big corrections...anyone that "kept stacken" after 2010 is ignorant of that fact and the "greater fool" that buys all the way down.
debt to GDP ratio over 100%, debt bubble not the same, banking fraud not same, interst rates zero papa, not the same, quantative easing in the trillion (only the beginning) not the same papi, go back and read something more than wikipedia
anybody wants to keep adding to enlighten this poor shimunito....
6 million manufacturing jobs detroyed to China
massive trade deficits....
"banking fraud not same" LOL...S&L scandal anyone? So banks were honest in the 80's?
Ok moron since you can't get it...History does not repeat, but it RHYMS really fuken hard...70/80's gold...00/10's gold are fucken twins.
that comparison between SnL crisis and the crisis of 2008 was discredited a long time ago papito, not even close, there's not even a rhyme of similraty, you can try this kool aid in Yahoo Finance papi but here you will only expose yourselve for an idiot or a shill, i gowit the latter since at this stage no one can be that stupid
S&L and 2008 demonstrate that nothing has changed...criminals run the banks...2008 was just on a grander scale.
People are people...Tulip Mania, Roaring 20's, 1929, 1970, 80's 2008/9...different players, same game, same results...boom/bust/corruption...it's the same...ignore that fact and you'll repeat those mistakes.
Anyone buying gold after the 2010 blowoff top is/was ignorant of history.
yes a tulip is comparable to gold which has been money for 4000 years, yes
Germany is not repatriating their tulips. China and Russia are not buying tulips (or bitcoins). They want gold.
you're no the real Jon Nadler by the way are you? Nah, he was a brilliant lier and manipulator of truth , you couldn't shine his $400 shoes
USA - a former superpower.
The dollar - the currency that is already dying.
All the rest - it's just empty words.
There is nothing sadder than unrequitted love.
The difference was that back then, the US was a net creditor, now they are a massive debtor. Try raising the interest rate to 20% today and see what happens.
nah, just a minor difference you know...
If you raised interest rates today, you'd wash out all of the fraud...it would be ugly but good.
The difference being that raising rates in the early 80's, collapsed the market. Raising rates to even 5% in today's economy would collapse the entire system (economically and societally). Which, not coincidentally, is why it will never be done and is also why it is only a matter of time before a currency crisis ensues as a result. It is a vicious circle from which there is no escape.
I still have a home loan at 5%. Seems normal to me. Didn't crash the system in the late 90s when I got it.
You could be talking about ANY investment.... right? Stocks crashed in the 1920's and never recovered for 25 - 30 years.
It's very silly to compare two manipulated markets.
Allow me to print Monopoly money and I'll beat you every time we play.
My Great Grandfather sold some gold sovereigns for 4 paper pounds a piece, way back - said they'd never go higher than that.
He didn't realise that they would always be worth the same and that the paper he was exchanging them for would become worth less and less.
I'm talking long before the 70s.
297 pieces of £1 paper for one these days, shit, that's only 75 times as much, give or take.
Gold will continue to get smashed down untill all the weak hands finally puke up their guts. That will be the time tou back up the truck. The question becomes, will you be able to get your hands on it?
Wrong wron wrong, Doc.
COMEX gold can go as low as freely printed fiat will allow. PHYSICAL gold, not so much.
How am I wrong? Do you not comprehend my comment? Allow me to make it simple.. The paper gold price will be smashed down. The question becomes will you be able to get your hands on any physical at the paper price. When people who buy gold for an investment instead of insurance see gold get smashed down bellow $1,000 they will be coughing it up.
So, you're a smart guy Dr., and I'm struggling to keep up. Something is going on between the Gov, JPM and Citi, with the Gov allowinging the massive move in leveraged derivatives. My question....what happens with interest rates in hyperinflation? I understand the native currency collapses, and Treasuries should move counter to that. If they were to, rates would fall. Why do I have the nagging feeling, they'll go up? Hence, the collusion between the Gov and the investment banks to manipulate PM prices lower. Just asking.
If hyperinflation takes hold, stores of tangible assets will be all that counts.
Interest rates will become meaningless to the average Joe.
Just bought some silver,,, they have had the check for over a week now,,, no shipping. Bought from them before with no problems. They do say volumn is high and there will be a 2-3 day delay.
Trust is beginning to be an issue for me...
I received another tube of silver from Gainsville this week, 3 day delivery. ($3.79 over spot though! sheesh).
I stack as a 'store of value', not an investment per se. And have willed the stack to my children and grandchildren. It is stored in the same safe as my lead.
OT, but TZA is doing pretty well this week. ;-)
"The question becomes, will you be able to get your hands on it?"
And how much will it cost to rent a truck?
"On the topic of U.S. Federal Reserve rate hikes, Grant said the central bank is in a hurry to raise rates."
At this point, I'll only believe that when I see it.
That is never goi g to happen. It would be the ultimate FAIL!
It would also be historically unprecedented. Usually around 5% or more inflation for a rate rise.
I believe this would be the lowest inflation rate to ever see a rate rise.
Not that it couldn't happen.
Their BS low inflation number is to save them money on things like SS, SSDI, Fed COLA and Wages, now it is biting them in the arse on other fronts.
Manipulation is hard, especially for a bunch of one-way, dysfunctional, short sighted tards like our country has been handed to.
I don't believe the Fed controls interest rates. They try to create the illusion that they do, and in the short run it may appear that they can, but in the end (like everyone else) they have to follow the market.
I don't own gold to make FRN profits...I own gold to avoid the FRN.. Keep falling I'll buy more...
Why do you have any FRN at all? Shouldn't you have put them all into gold?
some of us lucky ones still have jobs and most places pay in FRN. Pay your bills in FRN, save in money.
Each has its use.
Gold is good for clubbing people over the head.
Knock some sense into them...lol.
I like sales, bring it!
Why woulld people want to hold the currency of a nation that is about to implode?
Because they need to eat...go to the grocery store with a gold coin and TRY to buy a loaf of bread.
I don't mean the people...
Yes, dollars are for getting paid and paying bills....buying gas and food.
Gold is for saving and conserving your wealth...Save in dollars for the things you need to buy soon. Save in gold to save for your retirement.
I have no evidence that our government will do anything other than continue to debase our currency. If you save for the long-term in dollars, or in paper derivatives of dollars they will not provide you with the purchasing power you expect. Gold will retain that power, regardless of the government indebting us to oblivion.
Double post...and no mDV....these are not my sisters ;-)
My Russian coworkers say, "During Peristroika, the only people able to obtain goods were those with physical gold and silver." You earlier noted that had one invested during the the 70s boom, they would be bust. I've actually done the calcuation. Had I taken the money that I paid into my 401 all these years, I would have about $1 million in bullion. There were a number of years where I would have been picking it up at $280 an ounce. Yes, I would have not gotten the tax breaks then, but I wasn't making as much. Now, I have a ton of money in my 401k but I can't help but feel the government eyeballs it as a source of funds. In a few years when I turn 59 1/2, I'm cashing it out, paying the taxes as I think a haircut is coming here.
My Russian coworkers say, "During Peristroika, the only people able to obtain goods were those with physical gold and silver." You earlier noted that had one invested during the the 70s boom, they would be bust. I've actually done the calcuation. Had I taken the money that I paid into my 401 all these years, I would have about $1 million in bullion. There were a number of years where I would have been picking it up at $280 an ounce. Yes, I would have not gotten the tax breaks then, but I wasn't making as much. Now, I have a ton of money in my 401k but I can't help but feel the government eyeballs it as a source of funds. In a few years when I turn 59 1/2, I'm cashing it out, paying the taxes as I think a haircut is coming here.
So, in other words, what he's basically saying is:
KEEP STACK'N
"So, in other words, what he's basically saying is:
KEEP STACK'N"
No, he's saying you're the greater fool and that you should take advantage of this "opportunity" to buy the gold HE WANTS TO SELL...lol!
A lightweight such as yourself should not be interpreting Grant's words. Jim Grant is Jim Grant and you are nothing.
Jim Grant is "vexed" with gold....he's so brilliant that he finds golds drop "vexing"...seriously? he can't figure it out?
If he was half as brilliant as you think, he would have been telling you to sell gold after that vertical price spike failed in 2010....to run to the FED's prefered "investment" (stocks) and sit tight until the bull run in gold fully unwound..then sell your stocks and buy gold....that would have been brilliant...and worthy of worship.
I recall Jim Grant rcommending to buy gold for at least last 15 years. No, it was not by far as brilliant as your smart recommendation after the fact, but have you followed his advice you would still be making money right now without even any need to sit tight while the gold is dropping.
If I had followed his advice, I'd be LUCKY if my gold investment was currently worth 50% more than I paid for it 15 years ago...meanwhile, ignoring his "advice" has resulted in a gain 5x what I paid for it 15 years ago...
You really do miss the point.
Price and value ARE NOT THE SAME THING!
hope the caps helped!
Sounded to me he said TAKE DELIVERY.
He said he has some, but he's floating miners, "perhaps" ETFs.
He's north. The hedges are south. Is he the One who does know something here?
Probably not. What he says is opposite the hedge money, so inverting the graph and filling the gaps,
Buy MINERS! ETFs flat. Holding the precious is better than all the HTTP5 and melo in the world.
Fed And Its Bullion Bank Agents Hard At Work Suppressing The Gold Price. ~ Richard Russell
Somebody (probably the Fed) does not want to see gold close higher. Any time gold is higher near the close, somebody comes forth and battles gold lower.
Gold is the anti-dollar, and as such, it’s also the anti-Federal Reserve.
Well, duh.
There was a time when the smashing of the gold price used to upset me. Now it thrills me as it clearly indicates the level of assault it is sustaining from the mobsters of the financial system. The more they attack gold the more crap they must be piling up in their underwear.
Exactly! Something has them scared; and the more they drive out buyers, the more there is for the TBTFs.
the funny part about those who bash gold actually think the $$$ printing is over.
can't wait to watch their heads explode when they wake-up to the fact that its just getting started.
Good to see a cheerful loser now and then.
Gold and silver are long term investments. No one here at ZH has been buying gold and silver as a get rich scheme. We all know it is possible that the banks keep pressure on gold. Yet it is a matter of time before there isn't gold at coin shops. This year, next year, five years, who knows, as the bullion banks may want to keep some bullion in their vaults. But maybe not. Maybe this ends when all the gold from Ft Knox is on the streets.
"Maybe this ends when all the gold from Ft Knox is on the streets."
And then the USG is going to make owning gold illegal and will confiscate it from the law abiding citizens to replenish Ft. Knox.
Yeah right. So what, the ATF go from house to house confiscating guns and gold? They'll be met at the door with shotguns.
So what will QE 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 do to gold price?
Hopefully, better than when they announced QE3.
Gold is on sale and like any sale people who value the item will laud its price depreciation. I too am vexed on just how low the Fed will take the price of the paper but am moar than happy to keep purchasing. Slow and steady wins the race and my savings will thank me when instead of buying into the paper ponzi scheme I have a big bag of silver rounds.
:)
MUCH wiser to lend your money to a bank where you KNOW your money is safe. As long as the dollar is strong, gold will stay low. The dollar will NEVER crash because the dollar is backed by air. Air is a valuable commodity!
No, MUCH wiser to keep your wealth in gold...the government would NEVER confiscate it....NEVER deem it illegal to own...NEVER tax it to death...NEVER throw you in jail for hoarding it...NEVER artificially set the price at 1/50th of what you paid...the MOBS would never kill you for it...
YES! Gold is the ultimate safe haven against Government!
What a sheep. All hail the all-powerful government!
If you think the "Government" is powerless against you, your gold, and your guns....boy are you in for a surprise should the shit hit the fan the way you HOPE it does...
The FIRST to feel the Governments' "power" will be those "responsible" for the destruction of faith in the paper "money".
"In 1933, when Roosevelt became president, the United States had the largest gold reserves of any nation in the world. He announced on March 8, 1933, a few days after taking office, that the gold standard was safe. But three days later, he issued an executive order forbidding gold payments by banks; Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau, Jr., announced on March 11 that “the provision is aimed at those who continue to retain quantities of gold and thereby hinder the Government’s plans for a restoration of public confidence.”
Blah blah blah. Or more to the point: baa baa baa.
Please explain how rectangular pieces of paper and zeros and ones on computer hard drives are immune to the problems you point out for PMs.
Please don't say BitCoin. It won't work if someone pulls the plug.
Grant's "Interest rate observer" along with Jim and all other prognosticators became obsolete when the Fed eliminated the bond market and declared the new world order of managed markets. Fundamentals and technical analysis mean nothing . . . until they lose control. When Yellen is forced into another QE gold will skyrocket.
How much "talent" does it take to LISTEN to the FED say "we're going to drive rates down, home prices up, stocks up too...in order to "restore confidence""?
Financial Insurance on sale -versus- another $trillion Federal debt....your choice.
Seems lately that Hasbara now has paid trolls on ZH to try and convince us to sell our gold and that fiat is the way to go... as they get their $12 per hour in sweat shops from the occupied territory....
My accounts are decimated and I am just standing under the eaves waiting for the rain to stop.
Why worry, just think if you had stocks after the big crash... a lot of usually business will go tits up... gold is never out of style, always on the menu and shall be the daily special for a long time to come.
Do you really think when the global reset comes gold will be left out, and BRICS will say, "US where is your new dollar, can't wait to have some"
one of the biggest, if only unconscious, concerns for gold-holders is china. we've always expected china would stack and stack, then one day start a new system based on sound money. however, two major events have cast doubt. first, there was a late, headlong rush into the stock market, endorsed by the same chinese govt. then there is the 600 ton lie about gold acquistions.
china is looking more incompetent and foolish every day. can they really change anything?
Gold makes up only 1.6% of China's FOREX reserves.
Chinese money supply (M2) is $24.5 Trillion US. Their reported gold of 1,600 tonnes has a value of $56 billion. So that's 0.26% of their money supply, essentially nothing.
Gold would have no impact in any apoplectic scenario being tossed about.
I see you don't understand how revaluation works. Don't worry, you will, though it will be too late when it happens.
So tell us. How do you get EVERYONE in the world to "revaluate" gold? If you put an arbitrary value on gold (or anything) you need to control ALL OF IT. To do that, you would have to buy up every single oz of gold in the world at your "revaluated" price. Otherwise it will never work.
You're the one who's dreaming in technicolor.
Your shilling of gold isn't working out so well this afternoon, eh?
Yes, and China has enough foreign reserves to do it several times over. Do you get it now?
The IMF reset this autumn when China will be seeking to be added to the list of Special Drawing Rights for the yuan is a great time for an international conference to agree on a new official price for gold and inter-bank paper gold- the SDRs. The Chinese focus is on gold, not silver.
I read and appreciate a lot of what ZH and its readers post, but the stacking of precious metals has always perplexed me especially given the volatility of the past ten years or so. If the economy crashes and fiat is deemed worthless (or worth far less), we would be reduced to bartering, correct (at least here in the U.S.)?
If reduced to bartering, then values would be set locally based on need of material goods or services, yes?
Wouldn't something like guns & ammunition be a better investment? They hold their value, can be used in a variety of ways (hunting, defense, etc.), and are not subject to the volatility of precious metals. In fact, they can be used quite well to protect all other assets including precious metals.
Unless you are planning to exit the U.S. for another country, where precious metals may or may not be valued in exchange for goods or services, I'm having a difficult time understanding the appeal of this assest given the price volatility and emotional toll it appears to take on a majority of commenters.
I'm not trying to be a naysayer, I recognize the emotional appeal of precious metals but, objectively speaking, I'd rather keep my guns & ammo as a bargaining medium and the ultimate "insurance".
I would appreciate any insight anyone can provide on my perplexity...even if it's an insulting one. :-)
ammo is good, perhaps you can trade some,,, but it's not really money or a storage of wealth
OM, I hear what you're saying, but if we're reduced to barter, "money" is whatever two parties agree it is. And if the government and fiat, as we know it today, still exists, then wouldn't they continue to manipulate and even outlaw PMs as a medium of exchange?
at that point they would be done... no paper markets will exist
If you look at history, guns and ammo have always outpaced gold as a store of wealth.
The ultimate store of wealth is knowledge and useful skills.
Physical fitness is rarely mentioned, but extremely important.
Invest in yourself!