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Furious Coal CEO Lets It All Out: "Obama Is Nation's Great Destroyer"
Murray Energy CEO Robert Murray, who spoke to Republicans at the Lincoln Day Dinner on Wednesday, is "righteously mad" at President Barack Obama, who Murray says is to blame for the downturn in the coal industry.
The President, you see, is on a "bizarre personal and political" quest to destroy not only the coal industry, but the entire country and according to Murray, "radical environmentalists, liberal elitists, [and] Hollywood characters" aren’t doing anything to help the situation.
And make no mistake, this isn’t about money for Murray, this is all about the people. "Mr. Obama's actions are a human issue to me, as I know the names of many of the Americans whose jobs and family livelihoods are being destroyed," Murray said, adding that "these Americans are my employees."
Or at least they were his employees. Murray laid off 21% of his company back in May, with the majority of the cuts coming in West Virginia, which is staring down a $195 million budget gap thanks to the slide in coal prices.
Murray believes these job cuts are the fault of the Obama administration and, thankfully, he’s got some concrete arguments to support his contention that the President is colluding with Hollywood characters and certain "contributors" in an effort to "get control of the availability, reliability and cost of electricity."
from SNL:
[Murray] said President Barack Obama's administration has issued regulations that illegally bypass the states and their utility commissions, the U.S. Congress and the Constitution in favor of putting the U.S. EPA in charge of the nation's electric grid. Murray, speaking at a Republican gathering at the July 22 Lincoln Day Dinner, touted his company's four lawsuits being brought against the administration's Clean Power Plan, an effort to rein in carbon dioxide emissions.
Murray continued, saying that the coal workers affected by Obama's policies are among the highest paid in the regions where they live, but also have no one to sell their homes to when they lose their jobs.
"Thus, these people are prohibited from working and fall to the negative side of the economic ledger for the rest of their lives," Murray said. "This is not the America that I have always cherished. Well, I am obviously not giving up. Nor should you. We have the law, science, economics, cold hard energy facts and the Constitution on our side. Our cause is right. It is right for the coal industry and our communities and America. … We must continue to do whatever we can to overcome the insanity of our current government."
Murray goes on to say that the scope of EPA guidelines on coal boarders on the absurd. In support of this contention, he cites the fact that the agency's regulations are 38 times longer than the universally accepted standard for modern enviornmental law - the Bible: "EPA regulations alone total 25 million words, 38 times more than those in the holy Bible."
So who, you might ask, can fix the problem?
Well, Abraham Lincoln for one, but because that seems unlikely, Murray says West Virginia Republicans will have to do. Here's SNL again:
The CEO's plan to fix the problems he says fall on the shoulders of the Obama administration is to elect more Republicans. Calling Abraham Lincoln, the namesake of the event where he was speaking, the best president in U.S. history, Murray said Obama was 'by far, the worst.' In 2014, West Virginia's House and Senate both flipped to a Republican majority after decades of Democrats holding control of both chambers. Murray said the Democrat-led state Legislature provided 'huge opposition,' and he specifically called out some Democrats, including former Senate President Jeff Kessler, former House Speaker Timothy Miley and State Sen. Michael Romano, who was elected to represent Harrison County in 2014."
Murray said with Democrats out of the way in West Virginia, the Legislature was able to proceed with needed coal mining, tort law and other legislation. However, he said there is unfinished business in the form of changes to lower the coal industry's tax burden in the state.
"Currently, the coal industry accounts for 7% of the gross business product of the state, but our industry pays 60% of the business taxes in West Virginia," Murray said. "Oil and gas producers are not taxed to this extent. Relief must be given to the coal industry as our coal cannot compete with that from other states, all of which have lower coal severance taxes, or none at all."
Finally, Murray says that "most coal companies are cash-flow negative and many are approaching financial default. The result is that we will see the greatest restructuring of the coal industry in its history." In this regard, things haven't been all bad for Murray who, while laying of 1,400 employees has simultaneously spent at least $4.6 billion (enough to pay the annual salaries of 54,120 West Virginia coal miners, according to data from the National Mining Association) in the past two years acquiring competitors.
In any event, not everyone thinks the blame lies solely with Obama. Bo Webb (who is admittedly biased given that he's a campaign director for the Appalachian Community Health Emergency Campaign) suggests that Murray should blame cheap and abundant natural gas and by extension, free market forces: "Murray is not dealing with reality. It's not the Obama administration or Democrats. It's capitalism. It's the free market. It's that simple."
You decide.
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Coal, Oil, gas, nuclear
Watch this video and see what is possibe and already happening in some countries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
The rest of the developed world seems to be getting it right, with the Nordics paving the way (as always).
Meanwhile Americans are beholded to the fossil fuel dinosaurs who fail to adapt, and indeed do not want you or I to adapt.
Once you go solar you're basically paying yourself, the manufacturer, and some local guys to install it and sometimes maintain it. That's it. You're not paying for gas/coal/oil every day, you're not paying a utility bill to some energy conglomerate.
But I guess if you're a luddite moron and cannot adapt, then of course you'd support digging for coal and strip-mining entire mountains.
Most of the knuckle draggers here won't bother to watch the WHOLE thing in its entirety.. It taxes their one brain cell.
Third time you've posted the link in this thread, and not to mention others.
Fucking Douchebag spamming an infomercial from VPRO, a Dutch public broadcasting organisation.
No different than NPR in the U.S.
"Jedem das Seine"
Coal, way more dangerour than the Fed and TBTF bankers! Coal burns! The bankers merely create capital for THEMSELVES out of thin air with help from the Fed. Coal does not burn in thin air.
Lincoln was 1st in a long line of psychopathic US presidents.
He paved the way for the "destroyer" that this idiot is whining about.
in the year 2009 bush was the worst president in history
now obama is the worst president in history
now wait until hillary is the worst prsident in history
Actually, I am back on the Clinton 2016 bandwagon. Basically she didn't realize the old chicken and egg problem with regard to security classification of documents. People like the secretary of state create the information in emails that are later classified as top secret. things like drone strikes, covert operations, sales of nuclear facilities to russia.
These emails can not be classfied as top secret until she writes them. But if she writes them on a private server, they are unsecured to orange book standards. This means every enemy of the United states including 15 year old script kiddies can now predict what the worlds last superpower is going to do, and therefore take away all of its statist/satanistic power.
Vote for Hillary 2016 and her private slackware email server. It is how we can save the world from ourselves.
Every potus in my lifetime has been the worst ever. With each one getting away with as much as he or she could. Its a sick game of can you top this.
Corporate America's head up ass logic : damned if we shovel coal, damned if we train load Bakken shale oil...
So blame it all on Mame, I mean Mo-Bammy!
Whether its energy, fiat money line or hi-tech Googleese, we are in the hands of Oligarchy that loves outsourcing and global deals like TTIP and Trans Pacific; one way "partnerships". Unilateralese in global spiels.
This train heads for boot hill blues, Mobammy or no Mobammy.
Talk about playing ones book. F that guy!
Rather than make his company more competitive he buys out the competition. Small minded twat!
Murray is a resource company. If he wants access to resources through standing lease agreements or property ownership, consolidating by purchasing troubled companies is a very reasonable way to go. It also keeps the troubled companies from shutting down in some cases.
I own a minor dollop of mineral rights that were aleady under lease when I acquired those rights. My oil & gas royalties are leased at 1/8 from way back in the day. If a company tried to lease those resources today the fractional interest would be quite different. Consolidation happens during downturns in the resource extraction industries. Leaseholds are rarely abandoned.
Coal is terrible. We have a coal fired plant in my home town near the border with Baltimore. It's disgusting, and the air is difficult to breathe within 2 miles. All the housing in the area is depressed in what would otherwise be prime waterfront communities, simply because people don't want to go to work smelling like egg & hotdog farts.
I'm no EPA loving hippie, I mean I recycle and drive a reasonably fuel-efficient car and don't litter, but who in their right mind supports coal? West Virginia's best asset isn't coal, it's tourism, but you're not going to get that if you keep stripping your mountains down. Where are people going to ski? And no one likes looking at strip mines while kayaking down your rivers.
Go ahead and down vote me for my contrarian position, but coal is nasty and unnecessary, and Appalachia dwellers who think the coal industry is going to grant them a better lifestyle are a bunch of luddites who've failed to adapt to the modern world. Take some coding lessons. Learn to write apps, but don't bitch that there are no jobs digging for coal. Do you really want to do that anyway?
I am a big fan of coal. Not the way we use it now but the ways we could use it. The enegy systems are set up dead wrong on perpose. It is what it is. For now.
I see you are not a big fan of learrning anything new or what is already happening in modern countries.
Have a nice day,
Now thats funny! Made my day. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
Watch the whole thing and then laugh if you do laugh then I can call you a shit for brains LOSER.
You do know people think of me as an elite tech. So good I dont need to resort to childish name calling.
You an elite tech, yes you retarded Americunt friends.
LOL
Well, kid, watch the WHOLE video but be careful sonny, some techy words in there. Hey , why don't you call some of those people in that video and tell them they are retards and you are Einstein.
StupidAmericunt
Been there done that. They dont listen.
Dutchboy watches a video between bong hits and believes it as gospel.
Oh no....now he's gonna puke.because I said gospel.
Dude, you need to go back to deicing airplane wings.
You're no better than the spammers that come on here and tell me how they make money from the Internet.
Is VPro paying you to link their video?
How should it be used ?
Check out what Sasol is doing. It is much smarter than simply burning it. They are not the only ones either. China is going to build some smart things too. Velosis has a very nice system they can ship on rail cars now.
One aspect that is very nice is cleaning out the nasty stuff while in solution before the conversion process begins. Rare earth metals are a great resource best not wasted by turning them into toxic air pollution.
I read the comments here and am flabbergasted that people are not aware of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
You have to watch the WHOLE thing before commenting.
LOL!
I can tell you didn't watch it.
Yep I stopped at the faulty premiss. About one min in.
See, you are an idiot because you didn't watch the whole thing. Faulty premises?
Fuck off you goddam retard.
We own the carbon cycle. In like 1911 carbon was turned into fuel. Check out what Sasol has done in S Africa with its Fischer Tropsch plants. So we are not simply gathering energy.
Or take a look at the US navy turning sea water into jet fuel. No shit it works.
Hey kid, you don't know shit from shinola. A gutless little shithead who thinks he knows everything.
Watch the WHOLE thing and then laugh
ban
Difficult to breath within 2 miles? I thought the EPA emissions standards were pretty tight. This isn't China. I have been around a lot of coal-fired plants and have not noticed anything like you are describing. I may have to call BS.
Check out four corners, New Mexico.
Murray Energy CEO Robert Murray....how many moutain tops are gone? How many streams destroyed?
I was questioning that claim that a person had difficulty breathing within a 2 mile radius of a coal-fired power plant in 2015 USA. Not that coal mining techniques are destructive or that gas-fired plants are not cleaner than coal or oil fired plants.
About 25 years ago I had a great conversation with an 80+ year old engineer. His message was that we (Americans circa 1990) had no idea what pollution was. When he was a boy households burned coal to heat their homes. He said that in the winter the landscape was black with soot. So much for a white Christmas. He also said that cities and towns expanded upstream and upwind. So in the city we lived this was north and west. City dumps and sewage in stream made you want to head upstream and upwind to build your fancy new subdivision.
We have come a long way. Many would have us burn through all or our natural gas,when we have a lot of useful coal.
Logical Fallacy. Just because it is worse somewhere else, does not legitimize the practice here.
What are your specific symptoms when you get within this 2 mile radius?
Old coal plants ARE nasty.
New coal plants are completely different. They burn the coal more efficiently and have scrubbers for the exhaust. You really can't smell them.
HILARIOUS!!
WHAT A FUCKING ASSHOLE!
SELFISH GREEDY CONSERVATIVE FUCK!
HE WANTS THE WORLD TO DROWN IN GLOBAL WARMING
AND EVERYONE TO INHALE/EAT MERCURY FROM COAL
No free markets, fake money, and a world of debt and derivatives to benefit the 0.01%. Good luck.
Everything would be great if it wasn't for those damn Democrats........yo Mr Murray, Republicans control the purse, you've been donating to the wrong party, your party supports global warming and mass immigration, 2 diametrically opposed policies, they're psycho.
Whatever emission cuts are made are obliterated by immigration, instantly.
Uh diametrically opposed? Are they immigrating from another planet?
Smile, Robert. Hillary will be worse.
ReaGan created the EPA, then welcomed ongoing criminal invasion.
False. Nixon created EPA in 1972.
Reagan got duped by Democraps on amnesty. They promised (pretty please with sugar on top) to secure the border if he would pass amnesty.
Oh please! There wasn't one fucking republican CEO that wasn't drooling over using and abusing illegal LABOR, especially in Ronny's home state!
The dems just wanted them to be able to vote. Don't want an opportunity to go to waste...
....
If ALL out conservation of energy is not at the top of the list, we DESERVE whatever crisis is heading our way....I mean, how STUPID can we be?...
Before commenting furthur, please watch this in its entirety.
When I read the comments here I am surprised that so many people are NOT AWARE .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
Yes DB solar will solve all of our energy problems unless you are one of those ultra picky people who require electircity 24/7. In that case solar is a grid disaster waiting to happen.
Bullshit, I see you didn't take time to watch the entire video.
Just spout your own pre conceived notions.
Careful, there are some big words in that video.
Any drug addled dutch fuck can post a propaganda video.
Review the actual vs design power outputs of the Amonix and Ivanpah solar projects in the good ole USA. The cost vs production numbers may even straighten a bent wire like yourself.
And, keep on eating that sterno!
By the way, I use solar panels at the weekend home, but its affordable because I get batteries from data centers for free in mass quantities. Otherwise, utility power, however generated is what I buy.
http://www.utterpower.com/an-historic-note-will-ivanpagh-be-referenced-i...
SMDH, are you really that ignorant??? Don't want to learn anything new??
I can see why your guys are such losers, and your country so archaic compared to the rests of the modern world.
Why waste time with losers like you, Thats what my German friends tell me. Bloede Amis (dumb Americans)
You mean the same Germany that has INCREASED its use of COAL the past 5 years from 43% to 48% of electricity generated? The same Germany that's building MORE coal fired generating plants? And they use lignite, which is the cheapest, and by far dirtiest coal available. (brown coal)
The same Germany that has power cost from 3 to 5 TIMES the cost in the US? Germany where companies have to be subsidized so they won't move out of the country because of the high power costs. And who pays those subsides? The electrical subsidies for companies are added to CONSUMER electricity bills.
Or how about the new German "power corridor" to bring wind power from the North Sea to the rest of Germany. That new distribution corridor will cost about $1.4 TRILLION dollars, and that doesn't even include the cost of thousands of windmills. Wow, do you think that's going to reduce the cost of power?
And guess what? Wind is CHEAP compared to SOLAR.
Watch this and STFU with your idiocy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
That is because germany shut down their nukes. Germany is a fairly cloudy climate as well. Maybe Greece/Spain? Portugal could generate solar power and sell it to them. Shit I just fixed the Euro!
If you've owned a wind generator or have driven thru Banning Ca., you'd know they break all of the time. Solar panels generally last 20 yrs or so. The trackers probably break every few years. The rest of the components of the two systems are pretty much the same. So when you say wind is cheaper, do you include maintenance?
I'm not defending dutch boy or attacking you. I just wanted to clarify.
Yes, I was emphasizing one point of view. Germany has a grand "green scheme" that while it might work to a certain degree, the costs are astronomical. It's their entire society that pays, and they pay with a substantially decreased standard of living.
The amount of disposable income in Germany is very low compared to US or Canada.
Nuclear power in Germany was 22%, 5 years ago, and 17% this year. So despite the supposed increase in all their "green" energy, currently 22%, they are still generating more power using coal?
Further, wind power is not able to be controlled easily. More wind, more power from the wind, turn down the coal units. The cycling of the coal units moves them away from their optimal operating point with respect to minimal emissions (cycling results in greater emissions).
But it really feels good to say "I'm 100% solar". And, as Justice Kennedy knows, feelings are all that really matter.
- Ned
And thermal plants still have to keep hot and running as spinning reserve in case the wind drops, even for 10 minutes. Otherwise there will be brownouts and power fluctuation. There is a LOT of wasted energy keeping those thermal plants hot and spinning.
Adding an unreliable/intermittent generating source to the grid creates huge control problems, and is actually quite wasteful. That's why storage of electrically/energy is needed to smooth out those ups and downs.
@MR166
The uptake is even more efficient w/geoengineering.
The earth recieves more energy from the sun in a day than humans use in a year.
It's all about collection, efficiency of use and storage.
If as much effort was put into those three as has been put into the use of fossil fuels over the last couple of hundred years, we'd be laughing!
Solar works for about 5-6 hours a day, 7-8 hours a day in lower lattitudes.
In the northeast US, the annual production of solar from a system is about 8% of nameplate capacity. That accounts for cloud and lenght of daylight.
Inland wind power runs at about 25% nameplate capacity.
The problme with solar, is storage of electrictiy isn't economical. Sure it SOUNDS like there's "free" power, but the reality is it's about 10 to 20 TIMES as expensive as conventional power when storage is included.
You want to pay $2 a kWh for 24/7 solar? Go right ahead.
Its obvious you didn't watch the WHOLE video , nad just like spewing pre conceived notions.
Hand sanitizer is not supposed to be injested.
Or Drano but the Dutch Boy don't know that.
Lets see, I have a 350 euro setup to augment my grid electricity. My power bills cut in half.
But never mind, I don't know anything.,
In fact, watch the whole video and see how stupid all those people are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
Is your solar setup subsidized or is the power you generate subsidized? Becasue 350 euro gets you nothing in the way of a solar system capacity, a few hundred watts with no storage.
It's VERY clear you don't have air condtiioning and your power consumption is PEANUTS to begin with.
Why don't you go live in Houston Texas for a while without air conditioning. For 8 months of the year it's 30C-40C every day, with almost 100% humdiity. Tell us how you like it.
NO thanks. fuck the USA and Houston.
No such a problem with thermal solar.
Are you talking about electricty generation using thermal storage? ALL types of electricty (energy) storage is expensive.
The least expensive on a large scale is pumping water UP to a resevoir, and then letting it back down through turbine generators. So, just for the electricity storage, it's the cost of a dam, PLUS the cost of massive pumping stations. And that doesn't even cover the cost of the solar power in the first place. You also lose efficiency, so just becasue you generate the power, you only are able to deliver about 70% of it because of losses.
Sort of like putting your money in the bank at negative interest rates.
At what efficiency rate do traditional energy plants run? I know internal combustion engines lose a lot of energy thru heat.
Combined cycle plants, whether coal or natural gas, reuse the hot exhaust gas and get efficiencies of over 60%. The best new gasoline car engines are in the 35% and best diesels are 40%. These internal combustion engine efficiencies are way up from a decade ago.
For storing electricity, batteries are only 60% to 80% efficient, there are both charging and discharge losses. Batteries also have a very limited lifeslpan.
Pumped storage is 70% to 85% efficient, has a very long lifespan, is simple to maintain and extremely reliable. It also scales well to very large installations. It has the lowest lifecycle costs, but high capital costs.
Consider that the first alternating current, hydroelectric project in the world, built in Niagara Falls. The original Westinghouse hydroelectric generators installed in 1895 are still in use!!! I don't think may of the recent, exotic storage systems will last 120 years.
So water/gravity useage isn't feasible in the desert and solar/ wind in the rainy/snowy parts. The question I have is, is it feasible to link the grids of the entire nation so one might augment the other? Regardless of where one stands in the global warming/ ecology debate, we will run out of this stuff eventually. Wouldn't it be prudent to begin a serious effort to transition.
The grids are linked. In North America the grids are linked north/south in (approximately??) 4 corridors, from Canada to Mexico. But the grids don't have enough capacity to transmit huge amounts of power. That's one reason there are so many power plants everywhere instead of a couple centralized plants.
Reality is that wind and solar produce relatively small amounts of power, and it's unreliable. Another problem is transmission capacity. In another post I mentioned the high capacity power corridor that's planned for Germany, to transmit wind power from the North Sea to the rest of Germany. That project will cost $1.2 TRILLION dollars. Yep, trillion, not billion.
And that's still without storage.
Solar and wind power might be free, but it isn't cheap.
So yes, eventually we will be moving towards other sources of electricty, but doing so prematurely just guts economic prosperity and standard of living. Instead of having disposable income, that income goes to necessities, like power.
The real question is how much do you want your standard of living to decrease?
Big John: the mosquito has the right of it. Desert solar to SoCal loses about 1/3 of the electric power to I squared R losses in the transmission lines. The power losses resolve themselves as heat, heat that is "trapped" by whatever mechanism you wish.
- Ned
Yep. battery technology is the show stopper. I just hope its development isn't being "delayed" by those invested in other interests!
A123 was going to solve all battery storage issues. You know, those 100 pound brains outta' 'Tech? But just like the crony solar deals here in the Commonwealth, something went wrong. Seems that physics and chemistry got in the way.
But you are onto something. RAH pulled it outta' the air with 'shipstones'.
- Ned
If storing the solar energy in batteries, correct
But if stored in thermal mass even a home in the North East can be built to use no net grid electricity
PassivHaus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDOSxPz7228
Insulated Concrete Forms, the same I use to build daily, have been used to get these results
There sure ain't no sunshine where your head is Dutch Boy.
People still burning coal,thats skanky
Eventually you end up with thick smogs covering your cities like britain in the old days, but yeah, damn those 'radical' environmentalists and hollywood types for caring about the planet.
Guess this serves on this site as another meme to bash obama, we have had the hillary bash thread already today
Not about the money, what a joke
Posting from your solar-powered electronic device, no doubt .. lmao
No i just shovelled some more coal in to my laptop you fuckin retard
I think you should save the planet and unplug entirely .. Your electric consumption is messing up my goddamn air.
You are the one who has nothing to say, maybe take your own advice ?
Concerng solar power. you bashers only have one brain cell. You don't have a fucking clue as to what is already happening .
Then why don't you head on back to Mother Jones and stop wasting your time here?
Watch this video and see if anything there about mother jones
I know you guys don't get REAL news in the USSA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
you display your ignorance questioning other people's intellegence by showcasing your own regarding Joris Dimmenk & bonny prince barnyard.
since all here are so stooopid, i'm confident you are able to find another place to lurk that has way more appreciation for your intellect.
People who bitch about pollution controls should MOVE TO BEIJING. Idiots.
I was in Beijing a number of years ago. One day there was steady rain all day. I noticed that most of the cars were covered with mud, sprayed up from the road. I couldn't figure out where they were driving to get the sides of the cars compeltely covered in mud.
Until I realized that it wasn't mud, but soot from coal that had been washed out of the air by the rain !!!!
Coal has been used in the US for decades. How many times have you seen that happen in the US? No? Why? Because we made coal clean a long time ago. It's just that the administration isn't happy with .002. They want .0000000018, knowing that will kill the industry. It's not about clean air, my friend. It's about killing the US.
I am very much aware of that.
In China, they also use coal for heating homes and businesses, not just for electricity generation. It's the individual use of coal that makes everything dirty, not the power plants. The power plants (newer ones) have particle filters, and the newest coal power plants have scrubbers.
The more rural you get, the more coal is used in individual homes for heating. People forget that it gets cold in the northern half of China. They get snow in Beijing too.
Germany, the supposed leader in green energy, has INCREASED it's use of coal generated electricty the past 5 years from 43% to 48%. They are building MORE coal fired generating plants. And they burn lignite (brown coal) the dirtiest coal by far.
That's becasue their "green" strategy has FAILED. So what are they going to do? Throw another couple TRILLION dollars at it. And that's just to bring it up to 44% renewable. It might be good for the planet, but it's not economically sustainable.
Well Germany quit using Nuke Energy since Fukushima.
So, there are two sides of the COIN.
No, Germany still produces 17% of it's power from nuclear plants, down from 22% 5 years ago.
They won't have all their plants closed until at least 2022, and probably a lot later than that.
Fuck you.
Google translation
from: Teethvillage88-ish To: English
Fuck You
Damnit, he actually used facts and I feel stupid. Have to come up with a clever response. This will do.
You need to get educated to facts, and stop being brainwashed
They don't tell you real news in the USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
This guys is a loon.
"OBAMA RUNS THE WORLD"
He is just not very bright and stupid people tend to do poorly when adversity strikes.
Obama is just a hired gun. He follows orders. The true powers are lurking behind the curtains. Sure, blame Obama if it makes you feel good, but there are forces at work that are much more powerful than Obama.
Are you implying that complicit does not equal culpable?
"He is just not very bright and stupid people tend to do poorly when adversity strikes"
Ninja you just don't understand. Obama is VERY bright and everything is going right according to plan. He is trying to create chaos and from that destruction rebuild the US in the way he wants.
DEMOCRATS = REPUBLICANS = TREASONOUS CORRUPTION. And, yes, I'm shouting.
I'm sure Mr. Murray will be fine in any event .. his employees, not so much. Yes, it's tough being rich without the government fully in your hip pocket.
Bullshit - it's NOT the free markets. The United States hasn't had free markets in 25 years. Stop with that crap.
barry is just destroying any chance of billary entering the White House.
and hopefully in a few years, someone whacks barry's two daughters - put an end to this nazi dna.
fyi, Hill's daughter "announced" a few weeks ago.
"If that cunt Hitlery is elected President, it will be incontrovertible proof that God has abandoned humanity."
Vegas Bob thanks for that. It was a great morphing of her name. How Appropriate!!!
Killary is more apropo . ''we came ,we saw, he died'' Wild cackle. referring to one of the best leaders Africa ever had.
She had Vince Foster ''suicided'' and lots of dead bodies in the closet of the Clintons.
She is pure KHUNT, Killary the Kackling Khunt.
Probably the only comment you ever made here that I totally agree with.
Even CEOs are buying the puppet line hook, line and sinker.
Let's blame the figurehead. That's what they are for.
So you end up always blaming the puppet instead of the puppet master.
Read the Lord's warnings of how He put Obama over America to bring judgement on it....http://revelation12.ca
Oh America, America, the nation once so bright for My Name, you have sealed your fate with your wicked ways, and the days left for you are numbered.
Then horrors shall fill your streets. The dead will outnumber the living, and the sounds of war will fill the ears of your people. As you have trampled over others, so shall your enemies now trample over you.
Your people shall rummage for food, where once it was abundant. They will thirst for pure water, because they have rejected Me, the living water. They shall cry for mercy but find none, as they have shown none to My people.
Prepare to meet your fate, America.You have been weighed, and found wanting. Your reign of power has come to its end.
I like the message that there should be accoutability from a federal government that believes the ends justify the means. That's fine. But I just don't see raising a bunch of money for a political party as fixing anything.
If you guys think this out of date moron is your John Galt, then you clearly misunderstood Atlas Shrugged.
No one is crying over the creative destruction of the Coal Business except for some West Virginians.
Here we go with the free market bullshit stories again.
Fuck Obama raw.
This is just industry centric bull shit. Coal is a victim of fracking technology, plus an expasion of other natural gas resources. Who in their right mind would use coal when natural gas is available and well priced. Coal can't compete, it already resorts to blowing the tops off of mountains to bring production costs down, yet frackers have beaten them in the race for cheap energy from natual gas.
It does not matter who the president is. Coal can't compete. What they are really crying about is they want government to come in and manipulate markets to make coal viable. In the 1940-50's my home town was heated with coal, the power plant was coal. Before I was even born, a natural gas pipeline from Canada was built running 10 miles north of town, the city fathers quickly moved to connect, and all homes and businesses are run of cheap clean natural gas. There are no coal ships in the harbor anymore! My grandfather was a manger of the coal docks in the 1940's. Even he knew gas was better! He never complained about his operation being shut in the 50's, he became a plumber after the shut down. He adapted. I suggest the CEO who complains shoudl also adapt. That is what a free market is.
Coal can't compete? Why, because you heard on MSLSD or the Communist News Network, or-let me guess-your favorite Marxist Democrat bureaucrat Green lobbyist crony rent seeker said so?????
Have you ever heard of facts, evidence and data??? Huh? Too taxing for your attention span? Have you no sense of embarrassment on a public forum that you display zero curiosity or self pride in accuracy?
Energy Prices per Million BTU
http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2010/01/26/the-price-of-energy/
That article is out of date. The costs of natural gas are much lower today than 5 years ago.
But there is no question that coal is cheap, especially when the plant is located near a coal mining area.
This is possible Federal Subsidy to Coal Industry for Damage from Coal Ash. (Whatever you see as the cost of Energy Production for Coal might be out of whack)
Over a year I kept asking what this Federal Spending was. If we look on the Internet you find housing areas/Developments damaged from floods from Coal Ash Debris.
Notice I skipped some years to keep the list short.
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2013 = $65.8 Billion (what is happening here)
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2011 = $38 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2009 = $32.7 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2007 = $19.4 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2005 = $20.9 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2003 = $13.9 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2001 = $11.3 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 2000 = $8.3 Billion
Total--Tennessee Valley Authority Outlays 1998 = 9 Billion
30 September 2014, Final Monthly Treasury Statement, Outlays and Revenues, Table 5.
Your post was most valuable in this mean-spirited debate.
When a country is growing its industrial base and desperately in need of cheap energy, there would seem to be a general consensus that it is entirely OK to give the coal industry and the users of its products a free pass to dump all of its waste into the air, ground, and water. Not forcing the industry and the users to internalize all of these massive environmental costs keeps the price of coal cheap relative to other fuels. When you are talking about energy used by just about everybody, and in times when it appears that no better alternatives are available at any price, the populace enjoys the cheap energy and pushes any worries about the environmental costs into the future.
Once alternatives to coal became feasible, people tired of eating, drinking, and breathing coal industry waste began to push for regulations that would force the industry to internalize all of its pollution control costs and pay for any damage caused by waste that makes its way into the environment despite all prevention efforts. The standard industry spin is always "look at the jobs we provide for ordinary citizens" when it begins to look like the internalization of all costs will make the industry go tits up. The environmentalists always argue that it is nothing else but fair to make a polluting industry stop pushing a bunch of its costs onto its neighbors and the taxpayers, especially when other, cleaner alternatives are presently available.
Of course, it is never that simple in a cronyism system. The competing energy providers will gleefullly augment the actions of the environmentalists so as to hasten the demise of the former giant in their sector. Big money flows to politicians whose public agenda is to "protect the environment", but whose real agenda is to do the job they were paid to do, which is destroy the coal industry and keep those campaign contributions flowing from the nat gas, solar, and wind companies while doing so.
I'm old enough to remember the old days when thunderheads of russet smoke flowed upwards from steel plants and people viewed them as a sign of prosperity and progress; when rivers caught on fire; when hot humid summer days produced smells from "dump sites" that actually made you gag when the wind brushed over them. The coal industry needs to stop whining and figure out a way that its product can be mined and used by its customers without pushing costs on the rest of us and killing workers.
I'm not going to bother looking up the projected coal usage stats for you - you can do that yourself. But the U.S. will rely on coal for many decades to come. Nat gas is fine, a lot of heavy users have designed their facilities to go from coal to nat gas and vice versa when the prices dictate. So when you see more power plants moving to nat gas recently, don't worry, it'll go back to coal again.
The problem with a LOT of coal companies is debt. Like the frackers they borrowed heavily for the boom, and especially for China's boom, and now they are sitting their will lower demand and higher debt payments.
There are exceptions, if you're interested. Cloud Peak Energy has little debt and sits on a lot of low-sulphur surface coal out west.
Another point against Murray Energy from obama's point of view I am guessing is that it operates in a former slave state and it is a privately held, i.e. not Wall Street manipulated, company.
Murray should have seen this coming a long way off.
CLD has been hammered. But may pay off in the long run.
On a different point, I believe energy policy should include the needs of people decades and hundreds of the years into the future. Solar should advance enough to take care of a large part of energy needs. Oil will still be needed for aviation. And coal will still have a role to play in power generation as we will have over-fracked the land for oil.
This guy is giving Obama far too much credit. Obama isn't capable of single handedly doing much of anything. There are much greater powers at work in "destroying" America. Resource depletion combined with the unquenchable demands from seven billion people for example, and the financial elites (for whom Obama works) who see "their" world rapidly degrading, with burning too damn much coal a prime contributor. We're close to the end of the road for this version of human civilization. The BLAME GAME is just beginning!
"Murray is not dealing with reality. It's not the Obama administration or Democrats. It's capitalism. It's the free market. It's that simple." Really? Well, Bo Webb, you don't know the definition of capitalism, either. Which is abundantly clear from your statement.
"Horse pulled carts CEO says Henry Ford is the great Nations' destroyer" - There, fixed it for ya'll.
Cue IRS audit in 3 ..... 2 ..... 1 .....
If this Murray guy is so concerned about his employees(the ones that were subjected to over the limit methane, coal dust, etc., because monitoring devices were intentionally turned off), then he needs to use his waning
clout to lobby for some alternative energy jobs before he becomes completely irrelevant. But, if it is all about the money he should just retire, figuring Atlas just shrugged his ass out of the picture, he could get a big
yacht named the "Canary" for a little poignant irony.
Obama the worst President of all time? Well I never
If you just believe that, you do not know the half of it. The guy should be brought up on criminal charges
That CEO's ancestor was in the horse & buggy business.
If this guy is really a CEO of an american company, then he must know, that Barry Soetoro was co-opted into the WH only to play a role of the secretary, who signs on behalf of the team., and has 0 influence on the content of the document.
“If somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them,” Cbama later added, “Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.”
Barack Obama
The Great Destroyer
Republican Michael Bloomberg has given at least $80 million in personal funds to the Sierra Club. Goal: Shut down half of coal mining operations by 2017. (Sierra adds its own funds onto the effort.) Tactics: lobbyists, jamming up the gears of coalies by suing them, etc.
Bloomberg, Sierra Club Direct $60 Million To Closing Half Of U.S. Coal Plants By 2017http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/sierra-club-coal-bloomberg_n_70...
Last year Facebook's Zuckerberg allegedly suggested finding jobs for the displaced miners by teaching them to code.
http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/09/bloomberg-to-zuckerberg-youre-not-goin...
Then Bloomberg, in all his arrogant condescension, said, no, they can't learn to code. They're blue collar. The poor fellows need subsidies and so on. (The correct answer to whether the can learn to code is: "It depends on the individual.") Not only is Bloomberg shutting them down, he insults them by pitying them by saying the whole situation is "sad" (find the video of this event + you'll hear this). Then we taxpayers get to be hit up with subsidies. Mr. Bloomberg, why don't you provide the subsidies out of your pocket?
(Hate it when this thing double- or triple-posts. Sorry all)
supreme court says that dp is OK if it makes you feel good.
(Hate it when this thing double- or triple-posts. Sorry all)
(Hate it when this thing double- or triple-posts. Sorry all. Where's the delete button?)
Coal is clearly the great menace to the world at this point in history. If this guy had a business killing puppies, he would be whining about regulations of animal torture.
Seriously not the person to be calling Obama out for his offenses (which have to do with killing scores of innocent people, rather than the magnitude of planetary life that coal burning and mining will eventually wipe out). This jackass has his picture under the definition of Asshole.
Really? What do you know about coal energy? Obviously nothing. You're probably in the same lot that thinks that electric cars like Tesla's run on power that appears out of thin air. The fact of the matter is that there has been a systematic effort to eliminate coal power from the US while transferring it to countries like Mexico and China.
Sure you weren't looking at your family album? FA
Well said "roadlust", now watch the idiots label you a "liberal". This just shows you how short sided so many can be, especially Americas.
Coal is a destructive filthy industry making money off the public's land, and the public's health.
But what gets me is how many people support this guy's business, like its what is best and good about America, "THIS is what our kids are dieing for".
This exemplifies why America is OVER, people don't look at the issue anymore, they look at who supports it, and base their opinion on that. People put party and politics above reason and justice...and that is not a good thing for a democracy.
He can only suicide once so bail him in.
If you hate coal, you're a fucking hippocrite. More than likely your precious laptop is powered by coal. More than likely the steel in your car, your cans, the nails holding your house together, etc was smelted using coal as the fuel.
Jackass liberal fucktards (many proliferating this site) think electricity comes from the power fairy.
What exactly is a liberal, and what is a conservative, and who decides? I am FOR government ownership of natural resources, and I am adamantly against immigration, any and all. I am anti abortion, pro gun rights, but for restrictions on pollution (not because I drive a Prius, but because I like to eat the fish I catch!)
Furthermore, more educated the person, the more likely they will know where electricity comes from, and the more likely they will be what idiots like you consider "liberal".
I get a kick how people vote your kind of stupidity "up", reminds me of the same stupidity that got "W" into office twine.
But before you go down the oh so predicable, liberals and Clinton route, or Obama for that matter, I find them equally repugnant.
I would vote for Ron Paul, and find both liberals and conservatives, anti American, they put party and politics above the good of America.
Its not hypocritical to use something you have no option but to use.
The lack of reason and the hot headed responses are just laughable.
What a stupid comment, its like I don't like the fact that US uses so much coal, so I support elected officials who wish to push towards solar, that does not make me a hypocrite, its makes you an idiot.
A hypocrite would be someone who given the OPTION chose coal, when they could also use solar, but chose not to.
STOP the simple minded hatred of those who do not agree with you, stop branding people liberal or conservative, few people are all one or the other, your ilk is what is destroying America, so quick to judge, based on nothing.