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Total Collapse: Greece Reverts To Barter Economy For First Time Since Nazi Occupation
Months ago, when Alexis Tsipras, Yanis Varoufakis, and their Syriza compatriots had just swept to power behind an ambitious anti-austerity platform and bold promises about a brighter future for the beleaguered Greek state, we warned that Greece was one or two vacuous threats away from being "digitally bombed back to barter status."
Subsequently, the Greek economy began to deteriorate in the face of increasingly fraught negotiations between Athens and creditors, with Brussels blaming the economic slide on Syriza’s unwillingness to implement reforms, while analysts and commentators noted that relentless deposit flight and the weakened state of the Greek banking sector was contributing to a liquidity crisis and severe credit contraction.
As of May, 60 businesses were closed and 613 jobs were lost for each business day that the crisis persisted without a resolution.
On the heels of Tsipras’ referendum call and the imposition of capital controls, the bottom fell out completely as businesses found that supplier credit was increasingly difficult to come by, leaving Greeks to consider the possibility that the country would soon face a shortage of imported goods.
On Tuesday, we brought you the latest on the Greek economy when we noted that according to data presented at an extraordinary meeting of the Hellenic Confederation of Commerce and Entrepreneurship, retail sales have fallen 70%, while The Athens Medical Association recently warned that 7,500 doctors have left the country since 2010.
Now, the situation has gotten so bad that our prediction from February has come true. That is, Greece is reverting to a barter economy. Reuters has more:
Wild boar and power cuts were Greek cotton farmer Mimis Tsakanikas' biggest worries until a bank shutdown last month left him stranded without cash to pay suppliers, and his customers without money to pay him.
Squeezed on all sides, the 41-year-old farmer began informal bartering to get around the cash crunch. He now pays some of his workers in kind with his clover crop and exchanges equipment with other farmers instead of buying or renting machinery.
Tsakanikas is part of a growing barter economy that some Greeks deplore as a step backward from modernity, but others embrace as a practical means of short-term economic survival.
When he rented a field this month, he agreed to pay with part of his clover production.
"It's a nightmare. I owe many people money now - gas stations and firms that service machinery. I have to go to the bank every single day, and the money I can take out is not enough," said Tsakanikas, who also grows vegetables and corn on 148 acres (60 hectares) of farmland.
"I've begun bartering in some forms - it existed in the past but now it is growing... Times have become really tough, and friends and relatives help each other out."
So Greece, the birthplace of Western civilization and democratic governance, is now literally sliding backwards in history.
The nation - which has already suffered the humiliation of becoming the first developed country to default to the IMF and which was nearly reduced to accepting "humanitarian aid" from Brussels when a Grexit looked imminent a few weeks back - is now transacting in clover, hay, and cheese. Here’s Reuters again:
Tradenow, a Website started three years ago to facilitate barter of everything from food to technology, says the number of users and the volume of transactions have doubled since capital controls came into effect on June 29.
"Before capital controls, we were reaching out to companies to encourage them to register," says Yiannis Deliyiannis, the company's chief executive.
"Now companies themselves are getting in touch with us to get registered."
He rattles off a list of firms using the site to strike deals with suppliers: a car repairs shop that exchanged tyres with another firm for a new shower cubicle, a burglar alarm provider offering services in return for paper and advertising, an Athens butcher that trades daily meat supplies for services.
In the lush yellow and green fields outside Lamia dotted with cotton, peanut and olive groves, barter is also flourishing on an informal basis outside the online platforms.
Kostas Zavlagas, who produces cotton, wheat, and clover recounted how he gave bales of hay and machine parts to another farmer who did not have cash to pay him.
"He is going to pay me back in some sort of product when he is able to, maybe in cheese.”
Yes, "maybe in cheese", but certainly not in euros, especially if the growing divisions within Syriza render Athens unable to pass a third set of prior actions through parliament next week.
Should the vote not pass, it’s not clear if Greece will be able to obtain the funds it needs to pay €3.2 billion to the ECB on August 20 - a missed payment would endanger the liquidity lifeline that is the only thing keeping any euros at all circulating in the Greek economy.
On the bright side, "barter has been a part of everyday life for Greeks for a long time" economist Haris Lambropoulos told Reuters. The only difference is that now, "it is a more structured and organised phenomenon."
Maybe so, but this is one "structured and ordered phenomenon" that many Greeks would likely just as soon do without and indeed, the new barter economy is drawing comparisons to a period in Greece’s history that has gotten quite a bit of attention over the course of the last few months, and on that note, we’ll give the last word to Christos Stamatis, who runs the barter website Mermix:
"Of course, a barter economy is something that we shouldn't aspire to and should be a thing of the past - the last time we had it on a large scale was when we were under [Nazi] occupation."
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Diogenes, however, would be well situated to these conditions.
He may actually find an honest man, as personal reputation counts for something again.
Dishonest men are so prevelant now that nobody believes an honest man exists.
This has become a problem for me.
When honest men are treated like The Idiot you know it is very close to all falling down.
The cryptonerds will serve you an axiom you can't refuse
Sure they are. I'm sure that farmer is trading in Bitcoin as I write this.
but barter - if successful - and it most always is - will demonstrate Greece's ability to price discover, exchange goods/services independent of the government (and its associated tax), and independent of the Euro and its associated non-sustainable debt obligations. its the next best thing closest to economic freedom and it is a necessary precursor to bringing back the drachma, in my opinion. Good for Greece. Fuck the Troika and fuck the ECB
Spot on Pareto, you rule!
What I've heard is that the Greeks make a national pastime out of not paying their taxes, so what's happening today with barter is pretty much business as usual.
Fuck the Merkel... bljak
The only thing that will work is total debt forgivness followed by a re-boot. You corner anything, I don't care if its a baby mouse it will come out after you.
hellenicoin?
Even if you don't like cryptos, it'd be easier to deal with than barter in this case, if only for accounting purposes. Silver or gold is fine, too, but can anyone afford them? I don't think Miles Franklin is set up to take feta.
This is bullish for the Dow, right?
When the tax man shows up for his part, he can cut the cheese.
The beauty of freedom is that there is no reason why cheese in Greece can not rise in value --- if the Greeks so choose --- such that the tax man may pre-emptively offer to accept cheese knowing he can skim some off of the top.
halloumenomics
What the hell does anyone expect!
They ARE under Nazi occupation.
It happens under Nazi occupation.
Only difference - the Fourth Reich not the Third.
Merkel not Hitler.
Banks not tanks.
Same outcome different operendi.
And Greeks starving, cold and homeless.
The German leopard hasn't changed its spots - or diet.
It is coming to the USA shortly..... it will come upon us as a snare after Obama is assassanited.
Daniel 7 says the AC will be the leader of a powerful and diverse nation that breaks in pieces many other nations. Also that he will be diverse from all other leaders of that nation, (first black) also that he will be the 11th leader to come out of the powerful nation, (Obama is the 11th POTUS since WW2 when the US became a superpower)
Daniel 11, says he will change times and laws, and have no desire of women! See numerous late Nov 2008 prophecies from Jesus also confirming the AC is Obama at revelation12.ca
We now await assassination and then resurrection by Satan.... Revelation 13... the prophecies say it will the Bush/Clinton Cabal..
False prophet.
There will be no assassination.
There won't be any asteroid either.
You don't understand Daniel 7 & 11 or Revelation 12 & 13, that is very clear.
TalkToLind has bottles of good Sibirskaya Strong Vodka, Greek women holla.
The Greek youth must be physically and mentally broken otherwise they should be burning shit to the ground.
The youth were most likely lost and confused once they could not find the app for that on their i-phone.
I thought Draghi had pushed the QE button for Greece.
I predicted this one.
Look at the social media for "swap service" connections.
Watch the crackdown start.
need to get a fiat paper system up and running fast or all the parasites will need to find a real job producing something. cant have that.
The parasites are the useful idiots that "legitimize" the need for the centralized state. Fiat is the lifeblood of government!
Fiat is the lifes blood of corrupt government.
You speak the truth, but I've yet to see a non-corrupt government to draw any comparison
I hope one day we can prove that one up.
Are you the Kublia khan from youtube?
From Tanks to Banks, this should be the next story told about Germany's continual effort to conquer Europe. Tanks and brute military force eventually failed in the first half of the 20th century so after being humiliated not once but twice during WWI and WWII, Germany has found its footing and discovered a new and improved way to impoverish Europe - Financial Terror. Make no mistake about it as Germany has a bone to pick with Europe and for that matter, the balance of the world to once again highlight their superiority and being masters of the universe.
What's amazing to me beyond the shear lunancy or stupidity of the Greeks (as under either scenario, leave of stay, financial collapse was bound to occur as the economy implodes), is that the rest of Southern Europe is just standing by, watching, and waiting their turn for the next round of Germany control and occupation. France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal (to round out what's left of Southern Europe) appear to be frozen, awaiting some miracle economic transformation or for the debt gods to come down and vanquish their debt, just like Tony Robbins (playing himself) did to Hal (played by Jack Black in Shallow Hal) with his "Banana Hands" when he shocked Hal with his personal therapy and "Devils be Gone" reference.
For these other countries, the time to act is NOW! I've stated before and will mention again that the best time to enter BK and restructure is when you actually have financial resources or liquidity, to execute a plan that while painful in the short-term, will allow for building blocks to be established again to support long-term growth. The biggest mistake Greece made was not executing its BK/restructuring early enough but rather waited until it had nothing left and thus, placed itself in a situation that chapter 7 (liquidation) was the only option versus chapter 11 (restructuring). So my advice to any and all other countries in the Euro that are running the risk of German domination, wake-up fools and act immediately and if not, get ready to really know what it means to "dance for the man (or woman in this case).
Funny how history repeats itself but if you remember, Hilter displayed aggressive behavior and expansion efforts well before WWII ignited. No different today with Germany other than moving from Tanks to Banks.
Moral hazard is but another tool in the German arsenal, they got the PIIGS addicted to debt like crack babies, crying for more sugar.
I really hope Greece can kick this smack. I hope someone does an academic analysis of the emerging Greek barter economy, it will come in handy when the US goes down the same road. Of course, in the US not only will we have the opportunity of learning to barter, but we will be doing it in between the attacking hordes of the FSA.
Good times!
No clues, no ideas, but a lot of hate in yourself. I hope you'll be alway far away from me. And I just wish you all the hate fall back on yourself. as you radiate it.
WTF?
Kumba fucking yah, OK
Wow you're dumb.
Thanks, I've been called worse.
Did you shave your beaver before you milked it?
Seems like a reactionary logic narrative. The Germans were not the aggressors in WWI or WWII. In fact, much of WWII was a direct result of worldwide economic suppression, attempting to send Germany back to the stone age so that they could never fight again. And this tactic had been employed before the 20th century as well against the Germans.
Further, denazification was an attempt to completely destroy traditional German culture and thinking while making the country safe for a return of democracy and Judaism. The anti-German movement is an interesting cultural time to study, kids began to question their parents role in Nazism, outing them, and suggesting that Germany was still a Nazi state only with a new passive image.
While there is some truth to this, it hides a deeper problem: that fascism was a response to the failings of democracy, and democracy's denazification program was its own form of totalitarian control. We have moved to more subtle and irrational means of control, and the Western world has a deep anti-German worldview.
Iceland survived capital controls with no reported problems.
It also shows the benfits of having your own currency and facing your problems immediately:
1) Default
2) Close down failing banks
3) Imprison criminal bankers
4) Impose capital controls before all the money has left the country
I am not sure things need to be that complicated.
I reckon that if folks start avoiding fiat by trading in alternate currencies, pms, cheese, anything, barter, whatever, the beast will starve.
"You can not have money problems if you do not have money."
Shows to go ya. Paper doesn't mean shit when it's time to get things handled.
Next generation Greek Tinder sites, trading sex for goats and chickens
Aw, c'mon people lighten up
It's Syriza's fault.
Placing the blame doesn't help the creditors get their money back.
Debt reductions early on would have provided creditors with the lowest losses.
Tip - Don't lend money to people who can't pay it back.
It's called prudent lending.
"Only lending to people who can pay you back?
Are you sure?
No one told me" a typical banker
Payday loans, sub-prime, student loans, sub-prime auto loans ..........
Loaning money to rich people or governments always carries the highest risk. It wasn't the people that were "sub prime", it was the State and its manipulations that required sub prime into existence. It is the financiers who created sub prime to profit, while assigning blame to people who are underemployed.
Poor people do not have any power. Blame lies with the master class.
Allow me to introduce you to a little something called "moral hazard". Makes banksters rich!
Barter is good. No taxes, no receipts, no VAT, you can sell or buy from who you want when you want. The problem is a lot of service jobs do not work well with barter. Well, learn to fix it yourself.
There is a more profound problem as well: there can be no rational economic calculation without money. Perhaps the Greeks will begin to use gold again - there are a great many sovereigns circulating in Greece, as they were once used as money there and have remained popular. This would be a way of restoring a monetary economy - really a sine qua non in a complex modern economy based on the division of labor - while preserving many of the advantages you have mentioned.
The amazing thing about fiat currency is that it allows a master class to remotely siphon every single transaction between any two people. No extra work is needed, the ownership of the currency is enough to enable this theft, with no one the wiser.
Barter cuts the theives out of the loop, which is why it has had such a bad name in the "education" system that US children are sentenced to for 13 years. With today's information technology, imagine the kind of system that could be created around barter and similar arrangements in terms of efficiency and even international trade.
Oligarchs the world over could be dispossessed of their most prized tool of slavery.
Very true, in the digital age just about everything can be quantified in relative terms, in real time, per specific attributes depending on the goods or services. Relative terms would fluctuate naturally per the rules of price discovery, or supply and demand.
I would take things a step further and say that the digital age makes it less necessary to quantify everything. This is to say that folks who are impulsive have more opportunity act upon their impulses.
There is no law of nature that says markets must be stable or predictable.
The proof of what you are saying are sites like craigslist, except for the serial killers. Also, the "local" aspect of a good or service is a huge factor in pricing some things.
More austerity!! Raise the tax rate! That will make those bad bonds perform! Punish!
barter is a great system to be honest. first off it's virtually untrackable, it's not realistic to tax it... i mean, sure, in theory you can tax on fair market value, but when you are doing it because there is no liquidity, then the fair market value is essentially "zero" unless the government is happy to accept chickens and some hay.
what barter does though is result in useless people being cut off, and i think that's a good thing.
Good luck buying up all the sellouts with fiats true value.
Actually, barter sucks. What happens when I need shoes, and I don't have anything that the shoemaker needs? You spend a month trading crap back and forth to get what the shoemaker needs. And who's taking care of business, while you're trading a TV for chickens for cheese for the car repair for a phone... that the shoemaker needs?
Money is what leads to specialization. Without it, we are all reduced to hunters and gatherers.
what happens when you need something and the provider of that wants nothing you have? it's called you find and get something he wants. simple.
people have done without money for a long time and it really didn't hurt anyone.
Right, you find somebody (X) who wants your stuff and you know the shoemaker wants his (X's) stuff. So you trade with X, then you trade with the shoemaker. Some people will become merchants, like middlemen or tinkers. Everybody gets to know everybody and they all try to get along. It's not as horrible as the fiat-freaks want to think. Eventually something like a bunch of iou's happens.
you end up with traders in the middle who are willing to take stock of things in exchange for things you need to make your deals happen. they see a material gain from it and actually provide a service. and yes, you eventually start seeing IOUs... as a farmer with 10 head of cattle can offload them to a trader who has no facilities to keep them, so a deal is worked out wherein the farmer keeps the cattle till the trader wants/needs them and is compensated in some form or another. but it's essentially an IOU.
is there a problem with that? not really. nor is there a problem with it becoming vouchers for material goods that actually exist.. Actually lots of forms of trade can be carried out in this manner, because it was for thousands of years without much issue at all. Coins and whatnot were for the kings to play around with, normal folk just used barter.
Except it's not always as easy as finding one middle man. It could take 10 trades to get what you want. And then you've spent the week trading, instead of producing or hunting. Look at history- there are no advanced civilizations based on barter economies.
The limitations of barter that you refer to are the reason the concept of real money developed. TO PROMOTE COMMERCE.
REAL MONEY, as in COINAGE, not promissory notes from a central bank, aka ROTHSCHILD TOILET PAPER.
>we are all reduced to hunters and gatherers.
No, the human race has always been hunter/gatherers... The only difference between now and then is what we hunt and what we gather.
Just a shot in the dark here, but did you get a degree in economics from a prestigious American university?
Perhaps at first, but eventually a few things would start getting used as currency. Kind of like salt during Roman times being used as the medium by which to pay soldiers. Or whatever the de jure cereal grain was in various ancient civilizations.
Sigh, be sure to mention nazi in the headline again.
These Greek scammers are free to leave the eurozone anytime they want. Bye!
Watch closely my friends, in America, observe the template for the fundamentals in Bartering. This is about as close to economics 101 as it gets. Primative but no usury involved, i.e. cut out the (tribes) middle man.
I'd take primitive freedom over modern slavery any day.
I will gladly pay you on Tuesday for a hamburger today....
Your avatar caught my eye
"Now, the situation has gotten so bad"
Looks like an improvement to me. Soon to start using gold and silver coins as "barter".
Well, good. I hiope the troika has fun taxing the NWO's barter economy.
Time to barter bitcoin? LOL
barter is not collapse, but the opposite of collapse, barter is freedom, uncontrolled capitalism, barter is the free market, barter will put food on the table and fuel in the tank, "barter is the tide that shows whose is swimming nakid", Buffet is ready to barter, Gates is ready barter, Musk is ready to barter.
Barter police coming to a home near you.
Greece?
Is that even relevant anymore?
Stare at Yellen long enough and her eyes turn into gumdrops, hair a silken scarf, and her chin appears as three supple young breasts
I am getting a boner
A full-blown barter system is a real economy. One based on the nuts and bolts of survival. The threat are a few of the limp-wrist fucktwats in the shadows that have more a mind to fuck everyone over, instead of do real work, and conspire to fuck people over. And thus the birth of wallstreet and idiots like Obama and Piers Morgon. "Don't you dare trade that milk for having your lawn mowed without giving me 20% or ill throw your ass in jail!!"
Our entire system is a goddamn fucking joke and now these satanic dipshits have nukes at their disposals also. We could crash tomorrow, go into a barter sytem, everything would be working great and here comes the remnants of the DC Cops to fuck it up again.
"Don't you dare trade that milk for having your lawn mowed without giving me 20% or ill throw your ass in jail!!"
And there it is....succinctly and beautifully illustrated.
+18 trillion
Jail will become a popular alternative for some, 3 hots and a cot much better than taking your chances under the freeway or storm drains.
Hello, Anderson Cooper with another dick up my ass. Next up, after our commercial for Cait Jenner Beauty supplies, we find that Greeks are now in popular demand in Amerika, teaching Americans the finer points of Barter in our new Soviet Economy."
Between Terrorist attacks by Syrian Refugees allowed into the country by Hussein I, the Premier has praised the Greek Instructors.
"Although Michael and I will never dumpster dive, it's great to know Americans are learning new skills," said The Premier at a Ruth's Chris Steak House in Chicago.
"In other news, another 200 Ron Paul supporters were captured today and detailed to the new Work Camps in Arizona. Back after these messages."
US will be like this too... what's in your wallet?
the barter system is a very practical survival system.
BUT ALSO ... it represents a very basic form of the Free Market System. Under the barter system, people determine prices by a fair means of negotiation. This means that the economy is really starting to re-establish the free and fair price of goods.
And this is actually a GOOD thing.
Sadly, Europe's political leaders get bankier and bankier every day. Italy, I'm afraid you're next. Then Spain. Then France. :(
Barter will have to be outlawed and punished because the ECB and all the bankers need to extract their pound of flesh of EVERYTHING!!
That's nearly impossible to do. How can a Troika monitor every transaction on the street. This happened during the depression in the US and the banksters were FORCED into submission (temporarily) until "money" was made available.
Yes. And bankers don't want a truckload of alfalfa, either.
How would "they" pay the enforcers? With worthless fiat?
I would not want to be an enforcer going into a new barter town of struggling people trying to stay alive, also becoming very connected as a group. I imagine the outcome would be the animals getting an extra meal and the farm getting some new red soil.
I have heard repeatedly from northern European countries, particularly Germany, as to "why should they subsidize Greek pensions?". The Euro was created as a blend of all member currencies where the weaker southern currencies, when blended with stronger northern currencies, provided a manufactured benefit to those northern countries, in particular, benefiting the north^s export competitiveness ( while harming their own). The question that the Greeks should be asking is " why should we be subsidizing German and northern exports?".
It will spread everywhere until death is the new retirement.
death has always been the ultimate retirement. Now I lay me down to rest and if my soul the lord should take....will someone please shut off that fucking alarm.
This post is an absolute re write of the history of the creation of the Euro.
The Euro was CREATED to FACILLITATE TRADE between those countries participating in the Euro currency arrangement.
SUBSIDIES, such as a North to South arrangement that this poster is alluding to, WAS IN FACT STRICTLY FORBIDDEN by the MASTRICHT TREATY.
Where did all the debt come from and why is it necessary in order to use the Euro?
I'm sitting here daydreaming about bankers and politicians, sitting in the gutter wearing the threadbare remains of their designer suits, begging for crusts of bread as they slowly starve....because they've never produced a damn thing in their lives and don't know how to do anything other than use double-speak and chicanery to enrich themselve at the expense of the people.
The guillotine is too good for them. I want to watch them suffer as they fade away.
I'd like to watch their bellies swell from long-term malnutrition, but they'd eat each other first before that happens
I'd pay 3 bales of hay and a donkey to watch that.
Now that's putting an ass on the line. Let's bid this one up!
One spotted donkey with harness...Brays constantly.
"Sure, he talks too, but the trick is getting him to shut up."
There's a ranch in montana between missula and livingston that is the "Spotted Ass Ranch" You won't get any cheap ass there, they're all primo stock. I don't know why, forgive me, your reference to spotted ass brought on the memory. Enjoy your day.
Bartering is better than slavery.
Hope you bought food and water to barter with?
Buy some guns.
I am not so sure that bartering is backwards - maybe it is rather fast forward. With the help of the internet bartering is going to be efficient and it saves up to 23% in VAT. Schäuble will love bartering.
Bartering and trading posts existed in the United States well past the Frontier Days - sometimes with beaver pelts, chickens, buffalo robes, or even gold and silver. Bartering really did not fade until - well until the Federal Reserve was created. Hmmmm.
Maybe Greece can slide back all the way to the beginning of their history. There - fixed it!
You sound like a federal bureaucrat.
By "Nazi occupation" do you mean Hitler's SS, or Goldman Sachs executives?
"means of short-term economic survival."
Or as we say, "transitory." Yeah, good luck with that:
http://mazamascience.com/OilExport/output_en/Exports_BP_2015_oil_bbl_GR_...
Production = 0. Imports and consumption contracting YoY for nearly 10 years now. Chance of economic stabilization, let alone "recovery", = 0. Economies do not have a reverse gear - nor even a neutral gear.
Being carless beats being foodless. Greeks are learning just how much of their "economy" (and society) is truly worthless at the instant the marginal barrel of crude becomes slightly unaffordable. Long bicycles and draft animals. They will be rationing (not by choice, as if) oil imports for commercial transport, where it actually earns its keep. The fact that we aren't really seeing this yet simply tells you that ... we ain't seen nothing yet.
I don’t know their utility payment frequency…. Rolling blackouts by next month.
If you read and learn from my posts and find other supporting evidence to back up what I've said please feel free to share it and influence others. After all we are each our own Public Relations department to help drive the outcome we want to see in the end. And in the end I am extremely confident that the vast majority, who have a wide variety of knowledge and understanding, will not want to live through current planned financial outcome and results. This is irrespective of where anyone believes they stand on the outcome of the current path. This comment is not intended to polarize or sew enmity but only to unite and create a better path for everyone. More on this later.
“Public relations is a strategic communication process that builds mutually beneficial relationships between organizations and their publics.” - PSRA July 2015
"Greece is reverting to a barter economy."
& Read: THE PAST in the link below.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-27/when-will-we-ever-learn#comment...
* Fuku Ben Disclaimer: All of my posts are apolitical and financial in nature only. There is no express or implied partisanship for any team(s) regardless of the post title or topic.
A pound of cheese will buy a nice AR 15 soon.
Barter has been going on in Greece for some time now. And movements that cut out the middlemen.
Here an overview: http://omikronproject.gr/grassroots
Edit: These are systems that bring producers and consumers directly together, cutting out the middleman that rakes in a too big margin. It is good for social cohesion.
The US Tax Code addresses barter if I am not mistaken.
just like it addresses labor.
"Give me your fucking money or I'll kill ya and rape your wife, then I'll kill her and the kids. No wait, my buddies at the CPS will take the kids. After all we need future slaves.:
The positive is they won't have to pay any taxes.
Don't 'diss' the idea of barter...it may be primitive, but it prevents anyone skimming off the transaction. Right now, that is the most important thing.
So, unless the Greek government is prepared to pay off their debts to Europe in cheese, olives, etc, they may have trouble. They may not collect enough Euros from their abused population.
But barter is fantastic...it allows the people to conduct business around the prevailing currency. They may even come to realize that they didn't need the Euro after all.
No country ever collapsed financially due to barter.
The ultimate slur of a Boomer Nazi", whatever that is. Actually, the Barter economies are quite effective, now if Greece will just ditch the EU and NATO it just might have a chance of remaining Greece and no some African EU shithole.
Some HISTORICAL REVISIONISM is in order here.
The occupation of Greece began with Fascist Italy's invasion of October 1940.
Fascist Germany did not get involved until April 1941, when a desperate Mussolini called Hitler for backup.
Greek resistance was subsequently subdued and Greece was occupied by an Axis alliance of Bulgaria, Italy, & Germany until late 1944.
But telling the truth about the Greek occupation would mean that the Marxist faction of the ZeroHedge staff would not be able to get in another shot at the nationalist forces led by Germany.
Ummmm, whorTsyfox, are you working for the German .gov, or are you just a stupid ass?
Ummmm, whoreToodshed, just who are you working for? The ADL, AIPAC, CFR, FBI, AASR, or some other Alphabet agency or power group that finds the true revalations of their past criminal actions to be absolutely off limits.
TRUTH HURTS, DOESN'T IT !!!
Good post. However, the collaborationist gov'ts of Greece during WWII shouldn't be forgotten.
Oh wow, shocking revelation!!1! So Germany was only for 3 years instead of 4 years involved in pillaging and murdering a country to pieces. The difference is that the body count probably would have been higher if they were involved from the beginning.
I'm new to farming, as a former engineer paying full wack in tax.
The article above stating a farmer has to barter is nothing new.
My guess in the farming world neighbours barter many times more than using money. I'll help you harvest, we'll swap straw, I'll cut your Forrest, or fix your tractor, or wire you barn.
Barter is worth more to people!
Greece will get more "credit" until ownership control is manually changed (violence), I see no change in sight, Greece is just a hopeless conscripted open wound, a tool of invasion into the EU, a non state entry port and debt acquisition and growth center for EU banks, Greece is a helpless drunk nakid slut laying in the street in a Muslim ghetto meanwhile the world whips out their cellphones for selfies of the mayhem laughing at the Greek follying while doing the exact same thing.
Great analogy. Sad but true. I would only add that she's a flea-bit peanut fiat junky.
Dear CIA paid trolls, please tell us if and how the US FedGov will outlaw bartering? Curious minds want to know.
It won't be banned in the future anymore than it is today. Just that if you fail to report and pay taxes on bartered items, the State will seize your barterable items.
Wow, I guess they'll have to make some good examples of some folks to instill fear in the people to report their trades. Still, I would think it very hard for them to track the trades of everyone in the country. They'd just go after the big fish perhaps.
I'd hate to be a tax collector trying to get heavily armed Americans to pay up for their barter trades. Maybe an IRS graveyard in every city?
Like the Whiskey Rebellion, thank you Mr. Alexander Hamilton.
L_W_ Badger: "Dear CIA paid trolls, please tell us if and how the US FedGov will outlaw bartering? Curious minds want to know."
No need too. IRS already has laws on the books stating you must decalre the VALUE of the barter. That is taxable income.
Don't suppose you're allowed to pay the IRS in cheese or chickens.
FUCK OFF!
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Not directly, no.
But they'll be happy to seize them from you and sell them to partially settle your bill.
One exception is "like-for-like" barter.
I'll trade you a twelve pack of Coke for your twelve pack of Pepsi. Like for like. No tax.
I'll trade you my apartment building for three of your houses. Not like for like. Tax.
I'm an NSA troll rather than Company (Free Mountain Dew!!!) but I can tell you that you should consult the "Other Than D" portfolio of pre-written legislation, decrees, and regulations for guidance.
Imagine the words "You're In The Army Now" being extended to the entire population and all available resources.
Those of you who are a few credits shy of three years of college should get busy and fill in the blanks. OCS is far preferable to boot camp.
Juat a word to the wise.
http://tradenow.gr/en/welcome.aspx
I got a 2007 Honda VTX 1300c with 30,000 miles on it, Hondaline windshield, a back rest ( not attached) and some new motorcycle luggage to go with it.
Who wants to barter for it? Waddaya got?
Will you take cheese?
are our barter skills up to snuff?
After Germany was bombed flat it was basically a cigarette and chocolate bar economy.The GI's loved it.Frauleins everywhere.A corporal on $50 a month could live a king,but the moral health of both countries is diminished.The Barter system functions much like PM's.It gives an alternative which is out of control of the bankers and taxman.But it often works well because if someone goes around shafting enough people he may wind up with a free sex change operation.It forces people to value others labors: "PRICE DISCOVERY".
Reading this makes me wonder what would happen in the U.S. if our economy totally went down the toilet as in Greece. Well - for starters - most Americans are pathetically uneducated on doing anything for themselves - they wouldn't have a clue how to barter or actually wouldn't want to part with anything of theirs. American's are extremely selfish. I know some people, I swear, would probably rather starve to death then lose the use of their cell phones. Can't go without Twitter, Instagram or Face Book - no sir - gotta keep those selfies going. There are quite a few older Americans who would know what to do and could do okay - but the majority would totally spin out of control - becoming dangerous to anyone else. 20 million of Americans are prescription drug abusers, 10-15 million are alcoholics and illicit drug addicts - can't even count the number that are genuinely mentally or physically impaired or the children for God's sake - what of the millions of elderly confined and not physically able to take care of themselves. How long would this country last?
Tell them you will exchange some of their food and toiletries for a nice shiny SMART device with fully loaded Kardashian "everything".
There are two countries. There is the one that is steeped in the State and dependent on it. Then there are those who have been cast out of the State and have been surviving one way or another. The former is the group that will be culled.
"The last time we had [a barter economy] on a large scale was when we were under Nazi occupation."
Greece is still under Nazi occupation - it's just that Nazi's nowadays wear bankers suits, not SS uniforms.
- the last time we had it on a large scale was when we were under [Nazi] occupation."
Funny how history rhymes. Here you go again, thank you Germany!
Again a proof that there is no limit to human stupidity. Ah yes, indeed the debts have just been forced on the Greeks. Sure and the sun raise in the west....
All you banksters out there, pay close attention to the bellweather 'analigus-to-food', or ATF exchange rate.
analigus - some sort of exotic ass fungi?
NOT to be confused with analingus...
"Of course, a barter economy is something that we shouldn't aspire to and should be a thing of the past - the last time we had it on a large scale was when we were under [Nazi] occupation."
Sorry, Charlie, you're still under "Nazi" occupation. Same circus, different clowns. The same type of financial sociopaths financed Germany in the old days as the ones financing it today. Different bodies, but same mindset.
This should give you an idea that no matter how much governments attempt to regulate a market there will always emerge a force equal to the one applied. It's basic physics. Unless of course they start shooting people.