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ISIS "Ally" Turkey Seeks NATO Support As Two-Front "War" Escalates
NATO representatives met in Brussels on Tuesday after Turkey made a rare Article 4 request which compels treaty parties to convene in the event a member state is of the opinion that its "territorial integrity, political independence or security" is being threatened.
That’s the case in Turkey, where the security situation has rapidly deteriorated over the past two weeks following a suicide bombing in Suruc (claimed by Islamic State) and the murder of two Turkish policemen in the town of Ceylanpinar (at the hands of the PKK, which claims the officers were cooperating with ISIS). Ankara responded by launching airstrikes against both Islamic State and PKK.
In many ways, the suicide bombing and retaliatory action by the Kurdistan Workers' Party - which both Ankara and the West have designated as a terrorist group - is representative of the complex web of alliances that makes understanding the conflict in Syria so difficult. As The Economist notes, the PKK "have been fighting an on-and-off guerrilla war against the Turkish government for decades," but the group’s Syrian Kurdish militia arm (YPG) has helped the US coordinate airstrikes against ISIS targets near the border town of Kobani.
Complicating the issue further are long standing accusations that Turkey actively cooperates with ISIS. "ISIS commanders told us to fear nothing at all because there was full cooperation with the Turks," one former ISIS commander said late last year, in an interview with Newsweek, which also noted that "Turkey had blocked Kurdish fighters from crossing the border into Syria to aid their Syrian counterparts in defending the border town of Kobani."
More recently, The Guardian reported that information obtained when a raid by US commandos killed ISIS’ purported "oil minister" in May provided "undeniable" evidence of "direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking Isis members." And let's not forget that US Vice President Joe Biden admitted last year that Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar and Turkey had funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Islamist rebels in Syria that metamorphosed into ISIS.
Note that all of this comes from mainstream media sources, so there’s really no way to decipher the truth about Turkey’s alleged cooperation with Islamic State militants and of course there are very real questions as to what role the US played in facilitating the rise of ISIS in the first place, but what the situation in Turkey boils down to is that although NATO is of course fine with throwing its public support behind Ankara’s military action against ISIS, the US is cautious when it comes to the PKK because after all, they too are fighting ISIS via their Syrian affiliate.
Here’s WSJ with some commentary that underscores the characteristically absurd foreign policy stance that Washington is all too often forced to adopt when the Pentagon can no longer keep track of who is friend and who is foe and, perhaps more importantly, what the public narrative is supposed to be:
In Brussels, a NATO official said several allies used the meeting to urge the Turkish government to continue the peace process with the PKK. But there were signs of different views between Washington and its European allies. U.S. officials have gently urged Turkey to be careful in hitting the PKK, but stood by Ankara’s right to launch the strikes.
"We call on the PKK not to continue these attacks which are provoking the Turkish retaliation," one senior U.S. administration official said on Tuesday. "And we’re also calling on the Turks to be judicious in the operations that they’re taking."
U.S. officials put most of the blame for the expanding new confrontation with the PKK, which has taken responsibility for killing several Turkish security officials. After an escalation of violence in Turkey’s southeast last week, Turkish warplanes began airstrikes on the PKK’s mountain base in northern Iraq for the first time in four years.
"If the PKK did not launch a series of attacks in Turkey, Turkey would not be launching these attacks in northern Iraq," said a second senior U.S. administration official.
Of course the PKK would say that if Turkey had not been cooperating with ISIS in the first place, the suicide bombing which killed 32 people in Suruc might have been avoided, and ultimately, the two Turkish police officers would still be alive.
Indeed, to let the PKK tell it, Ankara is simply using the strikes against ISIS as an excuse to renew its crackdown on the Kurds which, you’re reminded, comes as HDP won a stunning victory at the polls early last month when the pro-Kurdish opposition party garnered enough votes to enter Parliament for the first time. Here’s Reuters on the connection between the renewed military effort and the political situation in Turkey:
The pro-Kurdish HDP party won 13 percent of the vote in a June 7 poll, helping to deprive the AKP Erdogan founded of a majority in parliament for the first time since 2002.
Many Kurds believe that by reviving conflict with the PKK, Erdogan seeks to undermine support for the HDP ahead of a possible early election. That poll - so runs the argument - could then provide him with the majority he seeks to change the constitution and increase his powers.
"He is trying to achieve the result he failed to in the June 7 election in a political coup. That's the real aim of the steps taken now," the PKK said in an e-mailed statement.
It accused Erdogan of trying to "crush" the Kurdish political movement "to create an authoritarian, hegemonic system", but it did not directly address his latest comments.
Turkey has shut down almost all Kurdish political parties over the years. Erdogan, who has accused the HDP of links to the PKK, said he opposed party closures but urged parliament to lift the immunity of politicians with links to "terrorist groups".
Through it all, the US has adopted the only position it can under the circumstances: publicly, Washington will simply defend Turkey’s right to combat both "terror" groups (the PKK and ISIS) and hope that on balance, the Kurds come out better than Islamic State. To wit, from WSJ: "U.S. officials are hoping the damage done to Islamic State will outweigh the damage done to the YPG," a US official said.
For anyone who is now thoroughly confused, here are two visuals which should help to clarify exactly what’s going on. The first is a simple map which shows ISIS positions along the border with Turkey and the second is a graphic which diagrams the three-way battle between Ankara, the Kurds (who are spread across three countries), and ISIS (who may be colluding with Turkey, even as Turkey bombs its positions).
Finally, here's more color from BBC which sheds still more light on the conflict:
Some say Turkey will help the Americans hammer IS, while striking the PKK as a warning - no more. Others say it will go after the Kurds hardest, while doing the bare minimum against IS.
Turkish policy is "to pretend that it is waging a war against IS, while at the same time following up on another goal, which is to destroy the PKK," says Kerem Oktem, a professor at the Centre for Southeast European Studies at the University of Graz in Austria.
For the underlying narrative behind Turkey's intervention, look to its troubled history with the Kurds.
United by ethnicity and divided by modern borders, the Kurds are a sizeable minority within Turkey, as well as within the neighbouring states of Syria, Iraq and Iran. In each of these countries, the Kurds have agitated against governments, sometimes for greater rights, sometimes for outright independence.
An armed struggle in Turkey was led for many years by the PKK, until it signed up to a ceasefire in 2013.
That truce has been strained by the civil war in Syria, which has strengthened the PKK's armed offshoot there, known as the YPG.
Like its allies in the Gulf, Turkey wants the overthrow of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. It too has been accused of supporting many of the rebel groups fighting him - though not the YPG.
Turkey has looked on, worried, as the YPG has carved out a proto-state across its southern border - an unwanted beneficiary, in its view, of the fragmentation of Syria.
The other big beneficiary has been IS, whose Syrian territory roughly encircles the areas held by the YPG. Turkey denies the accusation, levelled by many Kurds, that it is using IS to check Kurdish influence.
In an attempt to crystallize all of the above, here is the situation laid bare with no pretensions to politeness.
Turkey is facing both a political and a security crisis, with the latter being perhaps partly attributable to the country's tolerance of ISIS elements on or around the Turkish border.
A tragic suicide bombing (conveniently pinned on ISIS) led to retaliatory violence by the PKK which gave Ankara an excuse to break a fragile ceasfire with the Kurds. The government is now free to crack down on the PKK with virtual impunity under the guise of stepping up its efforts against ISIS (now with NATO's blessing).
In an incredibly convenient "coincidence," this all comes just as opposition parties won landmark victories at the ballot box, sweeping the Kurds into parliament for the first time and threatening Erdogan's push to consolidate power.
Meanwhile, Turkey and the US share one real geopolitical aim (ousting Assad) and one ancillary, publicity-friendly sideshow (destroying ISIS), which should by all rights clear the way for Washington's complete support of Turkey's recent military actions, were it not for the fact that they may be but a thinly veiled attempt on Ankara's part to eradicate the Kurds, who the US is obligated to support (at least publicly) because they too are ostensibly fighting ISIS, a group which was perhaps created by the US in the first place.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is geopolitics under US hegemony and given the above, is it any wonder that some commentators are looking forward to the return of bipolarity?
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Turkey was allied with the US in the creation of ISIS.
Now it wants NATO support to fight ISIS.
Karma is a bitch
ISIS: The jihadist movement stamped “Made in America”For three years, the US, along with the Gulf states and Turkey, poured billions into “opposition” groups, supposedly to unnamed “moderates,” but in reality to Al Qaeda-linked Sunni groups such as al-Nusra and ISIS to spearhead a sectarian war. The US, Turkey and Jordan have operated a base in Jordan where US instructors trained dozens of ISIS members. In an article last year, the New York Times confirmed that the CIA assisted Arab governments and Turkey by airlifting weaponry to these groups in Jordan and Turkey. The Guardian reported last March that British and French instructors were also involved.
Other ISIS members were trained near Incirlik Air Base near Adana, Turkey, where US forces are based. After completing their training, they went to Syria and later Iraq
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/isis-j30.html
Obama says the US trains ISIL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSEwwVugjqA
I never would have guessed.
Is it just me or is anyone else a bit confused by all of this?
pods
Kinda like Abbot and Costello's Who's on First. I can't keep up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_gSWTQKE-0
It's not that complicated when you just consider this a war of influence over ISIS. Whoever can supply and fund ISIS gets to tell them what to do.
Saudi Arabia and Qatar can FUND ISIS, but that's it. They can't supply them - they need the U.S. and Turkey - in the North, and Israel and Jordan in the South.
Team North has become fractured. Turkey and the U.S. were formerly on the same page, but now the relationship has become a bit adversarial. The U.S. interests (pipelines, coup, destabilization, misc. political clownfuckery) and Turkey's interests (kill Assad, kill PKK and Turkish Kurds, keep jihadis in Syria and Iraq but out of Turkey) are at odds.
If you look at the BBC map above, you get confused because it seems to have something to do with helping the Syrian (Rojava) Kurds. It becomes a lot clearer when you look at it from a U.S./Turkey standpoint of supply routes (= influence) over ISIS and the Kurds unwelcome interference (for their own self-preservation, of course).
Here's a map of the war from Turkey's standpoint. Forget the PKK and Rojava Kurds - Turkey needs the grey supply route open to use and control ISIS. Without it, ISIS will ignore Turkey's commands.
Here's a map of the war from the U.S. standpoint. Aleppo is the base for both the U.S.'s failing 'rebel' army and the base for all their ISIS supply lines. The U.S. needs to keep the Turkish border open to keep both the supposed moderate rebels (Jabat al Nusra head-choppers) and ISIS supplies flowing into Aleppo. The Aleppo-to-ISIS supply lines are pretty obvious in the diagram - they're the dark grey areas. The U.S. will kill every last Syrian civilian man, woman and child in Aleppo if necessary to keep its terrorist supply hub open. I'm discounting the ISW suggestion (yellow area) that there are any 'moderate rebels' left - they're all fucking head-choppin' al Nusra now regardless of U.S. claims.
The only twist to the two maps offered above is that the U.S. needs to 'appear' to be helping the Rojava Kurds, so it can't appear to want to keep the U.S. terrorist supply route from Turkey to Aleppo open. But it does. So it will never allow the Kurds to connect the Afrin area to Kobane and close the terrorist superhighway.
What the U.S. really wants is to keep the route open but totally control it, hence the confusing ISW/neocon term and shaded area in the BBC map about a 'Planned Safe Zone'. In reality, it will be a U.S. (not Turkish) controlled terrorist-safe smuggling zone 'rat line' into Aleppo and from there on to al Nusra and ISIS headchoppers. The U.S. will occasionally bomb some fake convoy to make it seem like they are preventing smuggling. In reality, it will be just the opposite. They will have effectively contained Turkey's influence, since any Turkish supplies to ISIS will have to transit the U.S.-controlled 'safe zone'. And they will have plenty of reason to prevent the Rojava Kurds from physically moving into the area and absolutely closing off the U.S. terrorist networks from Turkey.
Now Turkey knows what the U.S. is scheming, and prefers to keep the ISIS supply routes open on THEIR terms - hence the false flag 'terrorist' attacks and incursions into Syria. They appear to have worked out some kind of temporary deal with the U.S. - you can use a couple of air bases in Turkey, but you don't get to 'own' the Turkish ISIS corridor and you can't help the Kurds take it over. Note that the U.S. is still helping Kurds around Kobane, but isn't providing any air support for the Turkish ISIS corridor - they have 'encouraged' the Rojava Kurds to not go any further West into the corridor. The Kurds don't give a crap if the U.S. will help them or not - they know the only way to stop ISIS is to close the corridor, so they're going to try anyway.
The real truth at: http://syrianperspective.com
I think that's the idea. Total global chaos. Of course it will take a new world order to save us and people will cry out for it before it's all over with.
Chaos is all about not knowing what the rules are or who is enforcing them. This means you cannot determine who is friend or foe. We live in a world where families are fractured and spread across continents, where we are dependent upon info piped into us from unknown sources, and social networks are by wire with people we likely would not recognize on the street if we met them. We are each rife with theories about the nature of the threat we face, but while we may not agree, I think we all know that we do face a considerable threat. We find ourselves effectively blind and alone with anonymous voices whispering in our ears.
Divided we fall.
I was going to up-arrow your comment, but now I first want to take the time to think it through.
And I mean that as a compliment.
why is Turkey in NATO?
Turkey has been designed to be an anti-Russian provocateur and geographically completes the belt of hatred in the southwest. See "Cuba crisis" which started with the US deploying nuclear midrange missiles in Turkey after which Khrushchev retaliated with missile placement in Cuba.
Hope that helps.
yes, that was 63, and 53 years ago respectively
Exactly. See?
Yes the Cold War is still on! perfect Zio agitprop! your check is in the mail
(prefer AU over used toilet paper $)
Actually it is a hot war albeit not militarily. As regards Israel - it might well be on its way to make a major miscalculation. Despite its immense clout on US policy and politics - it is not a major player. Psychotic genocide freak Netanyahu feels he is running out of time.
lol, except for their 200 "Nukular" warheads... he wants us to THINK they are running out of time
the end game is to get rid of Assad, per Zio orders... been trying for decades now within their reach, even if "ISIL" gets stronger
the end game is to destabilze Eurasia so that the US+UK cancer can continue to metastasize into the remotest angle of the word with its paper money.
The Assad-regime was a useful idiot when the CIA had its torture camps run in Syria, now has come the time to destroy a link in the potential Iran-Germany-Russia-China axis.
Hope that helps.
one word - Hezbollah - hope that helps, not disagreeing with some of your premise but you seem like an arrogant fuck
thx - Hezbolly is but one facet.
lol...the ziocons want Assad gone, to the point of lying about chemical weapons attacks...
maybe your playbook needs an update
lol...the ziocons want Assad gone, to the point of lying about chemical weapons attacks...
--> couldn't agree more.
maybe your playbook needs an update
--> no.
ok we agree to disagree about the strength of that crowd then
most of the Cold War CIA guys are spinning in their graves at 5000 rpm, IMO
yes. Have a nice day.
They must think we are all idiots, that deluded fuck Erdogonorea and his backers need to be wiped out.
Penicillin maybe?
I don't know what is worse, watching us creep ever deeper into WWIII, or knowing this mess is so convoluted that "our" military will be fighting itself on the battlefield (if the nukes don't start flying right away and there ever is a real battlefield).
Better to see it than not.
What if the US backs out and lets everyone just kill each other? At what point does this reach escape velocity and no longer requires a US push? Maybe the plan is that there really is not plan except to confuse and stoke the fires and run away at the end.
If the US backed out of the Middle East peace might suddenly break out.
How serious is this? Can it escalate, or is it just some serious terrorists running around in the desert issues that won't affect anyone basically? I"m tired of trying to keep up with all that crap going on over there.
it's a war, very serious
No, I meant for someone like me in the US, sitting here having a porterhouse and beer in the cold AC.
It is and will be whatever is convenient for the times.
Wonderful thing about having you own personal out of control
terrorist organization. Chaos on demand.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit........ it's the only way to be sure.
https://youtu.be/aCbfMkh940Q
Russian claim they hacked mccains laptop that the be headings were staged and fake
Oh lookey, Intel hacks cannot mustard up enough ISIL recurits to muscle up the new boogie man.
How can the defense department get a new taxpayer slush fund approved?
It really sucks to be the bad guys in this reality show.
We've been the bad guys for quite awhile....we just got excellent PR.
"We've been the bad guys for quite awhile....we just got excellent PR."...
1000yrd
Put your comment on "canvas" and sell it to a delusional public in the U.S. and Europe that has had constant sunshine blown up there asses since the Vietnam conflict blew up in their face and the American people vowed never again!... For those of us who are old enough to remember???
Excellent PR my ass!
Has it really been excellent "since 9/11"?... How could anyone with half a brain keep swallowing the load from someone they know will eventually one day rape their mother, father, brother, sister and children and keep ignoring it out of fear and self preservation?!!!
Edgar Cayce really was spot on !!!
And I never believed in any of that Nostradomus type stuff, starting to change my mind now.
What did Cayce say about war in the Middle East? Would it end the world? Was he a bear or bull on physical gold? Did he say Fed was another name for Satan?
Inquiring minds want to know
According to some, the death of one known as "Mabus" will herald some cataclysmic event. The actual mention of Mabus is restricted toC2, Q62 where we see Mabus described:
'Mabus' then will soon die, there will come
Of people and beasts a horrible rout:
Then suddenly one will see vengeance,
Hundred, hand, thirst, hunger when the comet will run.
Considering President Prick's Navy Secretary is no shit named Mabus - you have to pause.
"Mabus" is probably an anagram or some weird shit that was intended to cloud the real name or identity of whomever Nastrodamus was referring to. Cagey bastard!
"Article 4 request which compels treaty parties to convene in the event a member state is of the opinion that its "territorial integrity, political independence or security" is being threatened. " Greece should make an Article 4 request then
Iran should Arm PKK, Russia and China should arm Iran, and Syria, and Yemen.... Israel has WMD and must be bombed.
ISIS best terrorist organization money can buy! Scare the shit out of American sheep.
SLAVES R US - FKN Newz <--- Watch
Erdogan sucks
There's no author for this article, so I guess it must be one of the smarter Tylers. I think it's pretty much spot on as far as Turkey's positions on the PKK (Kurds) and ISIS (CIA-Mossad) are concerned.
The thing that strikes me as particularly crazy is the role of our PM, Camoron, pulling at the bit to do the zionist's bidding, screeching at every opportunity to add our armed forces to this crazy mix of cannibal soup stirred by Israel, Turkey, NATO, CIA, Iran and the Qatari/Saudis. The same fuckers who bombed and destroyed Iraq, Syria and Libya are directly responsible for creating the refugee crisis in the EU right now. I can understand the Americans, the Israelis, the Saudis and the Turkish doing it because it benefits them in some way, but why us? Why the fuck would anyone in the Uk or the EU want to help the psychopaths in this maelstrom of mass murder and tragedy?
Why the fuck would anyone in the Uk or the EU want to help the psychopaths in this maelstrom of mass murder and tragedy?
Per your usual YHC excellent question. We better hope sanity makes it's final debut with the living or find a way to dig up the bone yards around Europe and breath life back into the "viscera" of critical thinkers from the last 1,500 years before it's too late.
Son of Captain Nemo :Why the fuck would anyone in the Uk or the EU want to help the psychopaths in this maelstrom of mass murder and tragedy?
I can think of 180 Billion reasons right now.
Ziocons control UK policy as well, fairly obvious
There's a country in the area that benefits directly from this chaos.
Where every dead neighbor, whether Arab or Persian or otherwise, is a little victory.
Hegelian Dialectic. It's their #1 tool. Just finished reading a bit of Sutton and he describes it in detail. Apparently the Hegelian Dialectic was a big thing in German universities in the 19th Century swept them similar to the pacman craze of the 80's he says (so that means a discussion topic in the cafe's and student rags). Hegelian Dialectic jumped out of the comments for the 3yo terrorist: ASBO, hate crime, immigration policies but I didn't see it mentioned.
Oddly enough I've been reading Kant lately, whom Hegel cited as an inspiration. I must be a bit slow because I still don't get the relevancy of Hegelian Dialectics (Argument, Counter-argument, Compromise) to contemporary narratives. Somebody will just have to explain it to me.
Turkey is salivating over the thought of wiping the Kurds off the face of the earth. You watch, Uncle Sham will fuck over the Kurds a THIRD time. We will just let it happen (again).
Our Kenyan negro promised financial aid to this semi-periphery region, if they become the Hitman to take out these human beings.
/sad world this United States of America administration has sunk too.
That is why you want to be a salesman rather than an actual producer. The salesman makes the promise, but its failure is the fault of the producer. Anyone who works under a salesman understands this. The best salesmen are usually liars unless they are blessed by particularly effective producers.
Our politicians are salesman/women. The bureaucracy that serves them are their producers, who seldom produce anything but more disasters that their salesmen can use as additional selling tools. These "producers" are held harmless in that they are never fired for their failures and if anything promoted if they take abuse for failing without throwing their salesmen under the bus. Ultimately, we find that it is the people who are ultimately blamed. If policies fail it is OUR fault, as we just didn't get the wisdom of it, or were just too stupid, which means we only need more manipulation and "selling".
There are liars that have a conscience, and their are people of conscience who cannot tell a lie, but the salesman can lie without conscience, a considerable power in this world.
Didn't we slap a no-fly-zone on Saddam Hussein way back when for gassing the Iraqi Kurds? So, are they becoming inconvenient again? How many chemical weapons does Turkey have, I wonder.
We also sold Saddam both the chemical weapons (gas) and the tech to make more.
Yes, remember after the first gulf war, Bush 1 told the Iraqis that if they stood up to Saddam we would back them. Once they finally did stand up to him, Saddam gassed them good, and in response we sent a few rockets in and gave him a stern talking to. We have fucked virtually every ME ally ever. Even though we had significant support in Iraq for the invasion, once we were there, US democrat politicians began screaming about how we had to get out NOW. Iraqis saw the righting on the wall and said "fuck the US" because they understood that if they helped US soldiers, and America left before the insurgents were defeated, they would be killed in retaliation. Only after the surge was instituted did we get any assistance from Iraqis on the ground. It was enough to give them confidence that they would not be left in the lurch. We have had the exact same experience in Afghanistan. And we will leave all of them in the lurch. We have imported countless thousands of people from these countries, but the ones who actually assisted us, the translators and intermediators, have had a real tough time getting here. Many have died. We have run this game for so long that no one trusts us, especially those we claim to befriend, and virtually ALL believe that we will always cave if things take too long. Ask those left living in Vietnam about how we left them standing with their dick in their hand waiting for the Vietcong to kill them by the thousands.
The left always blames every policy failure on the lack of going far enough, spending enough, enforcing enough, believing enough, but when it has come to this war thing, they are always there voting for it, before they turn against it, ensuring its failure. War sucks, but a long, protracted and bankrupting war is just plain stupid. We should NEVER go to war unless we intend on winning it. Otherwise lets just keep talking and lying to each other.
News CLip about Terrorism and Russian girls fleecing ISIS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwKTgIhjyw
comment removed by speaker, whose freedom of speech has been sufficiantly chilled by Total Surveillance Always (TSA and friends) to not want to get attention.
I just skimmed the article but it looks really solid - unfortunately. There was a lot of coverage of this on Charlie Rose last night with the same conclusions, that this is Turkey going after the Kurds, not ISIS, in part because the recent bombing in Turkey was in some way associated, fairly or not who knows, with the Kurds and not ISIS as announced at the time - this article seems to go a little farther than the speakers did on CR.
No doubt this will all be covered in detail by the Republican candidates in their debate. /sarc
It is a world at war.
...actually it is corporations and semi-governmental "gangs" at war. It's just being sold as WOT or some other bullshit. It's a resource war and a war for who gets the contracts to exploit those resources.
Which resources are the Islamic fundamentalists fighting for....and the Kurds....and the Palestinians? America and Europe seem to be the only ones worried about resources and that is because those using them as gambling chips are afraid their chips will become worthless. Coal mines shutting down, Iron ore mines shutting down, Copper mines, oil wells...all commodities are sinking in price and consumption, yet you think international strife is over resources? War is over power, and yes resources provide power, but if the resources you have invested heavily in, in an effort to obtain power fall in value, how powerful are you? As powerful as the Hunts with all their silver?
Oldwood :"Which resources are the Islamic fundamentalists fighting for?"
The resources that are on "their" lands. Do you see any Fundy country that WANTS US involvement over there?
So you think if we simply leave their lands that they will become peaceful and have no aggressions for us or their neighbors? We are probably just parsing here. Ultimately I think it matters not at all what everyone is fighting about. Once it is at this state I don't believe that many will ever find peace. War becomes a virus where everyone feels justified in taking from and abusing others, out of revenge if nothing else. This is what I keep seeing everywhere I look. EVERYONE FEELS JUSTIFIED....EVERYONE. Justice is always in the eye of the beholder, so judgement becomes a matter of strength and/or majority consensus, not necessarily truth or fact. It becomes interesting when 51% thinks that the 49% must die.
"So you think if we simply leave their lands that they will become peaceful and have no aggressions for us or their neighbors?"
So you think that is our problem? Really?
Oldwood, I'm actually in agreement with 99% of your views... I just look at how shit is being :"sold".
Over there it is being "sold" as a religious thing, thus the Islamic nutterz are easily stirred up. They're indoctrinated from an early age and the leaders have an endless supply of cannon fodder. Now they also know their lands are of strategic value...as well as what resides UNDER their lands. So the US "sells" one thing overseas by funding ISIS through our "friends", the severe religiocity (is that even a word?...LOL) but over here... we're "sold" Islam is a religion of peace.
At the end of the day... it's all bullshit. It's a jobs program for the MIC and those companies that extract, refine, produce and deliver resources.
"This is what I keep seeing everywhere I look. EVERYONE FEELS JUSTIFIED....EVERYONE. Justice is always in the eye of the beholder, so judgement becomes a matter of strength and/or majority consensus, not necessarily truth or fact."
I agree 10000%, it's all perception and how that perception is manipulated and sold. We have our own Fundies in the Pentagon....so we're just as culpable.
I write code :" Turkey going after the Kurds, not ISIS"
Yup, same game we are playing, we fund ISIS, we create a problem and a smoke screen and now we have to go into Syria and "get ISIS... yet the real target is Assad.
I guess this is why I have not owned a TV in over ten years now. TV= The Lying box, the stupid box. Fucking ingenious invention.
Placate. Sooth. Bullshit. Control the dialouge
Did Turkey, with the blessings and armaments of the US, just bomb those (Kurds) most effective in opposing the ISIL? Wow. Those who think that permenent instability is the very goal of the US involvment would have a field day. Tell me it ain't true.
Waiting for the "fever" to burn itself out while hoping it ain't catching....but we know it is and is just a matter of time.
As the saying goes, what goes around comes around. Bush II’s 2003 invasion/occupation of Iraq set all of this in motion. Iraq, along with Libya, Syria and Yemen are all failed states. The end result- cost to US taxpayers $ trillions and creation of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh. ISIS has received large amounts of financial aid from the GCC countries (US “allies”), and provided safe havens and training in Jordan, Turkey and Israel (Golan Heights). Turkey has served as a major staging ground for ISIS attacks against Syria. There are reports that injured radical Islamic fighters have received treatment from Israeli medical staff in the Israeli occupied Golan Heights (see: www.wsj.com/articles/al-qaeda-a-lesser-evil-syria-war-pulls-u-s-israel-apart-1426169708). So the philosophy here is- the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The problem with this, as Turkey is finding out, is that at the end of the day, the enemy of my enemy is still your enemy. No doubt, Turkish PM Erdo?an has dreams of piggy backing on ISIS destruction of Iraq and Syria to recreate the Ottoman Empire. Turkey's actions will no doubt lead to a wider war in the ME and beyond. Dangerous times ahead.
one way for russia to throw a monkey-wrench into the saudi/ gcc/ and qatar plans is reapproaching 'greece', with an offer they can't refuse. obviously the russian's don't want to be saddled with greek-debt that germany is going to take a leg and arm... pound of flesh.
greece doesn't want venezuela imported stagflation [implosion] exported to their shores. they realize now that the only white knight is mother russia. period!
vlad sees the desparation and hopelessness in the greek peoples faces. now is the perfect tyme to renegotiate the pipeline routes? all contracts pending shall be strickly with russia under a strict bilateral agreement. only... between russia and greece. period! absolutely no other third parties to be involved in the energy pact agreements.
it actually would be an all out humanitarian effort by russia {[note: china will obviously help, for if assad goes down without a iranian/russian leader, the next move by the ussa/eu foreign policy argonauts!] [whom, btw..., have already garner'd the golden fleece off their backs][neo-con/ ?islamist jihadist? raiders will sail directly north across the black sea unto the balkans]} and greece having its agri-market and fishing industry exporting to china/russia in yuan, helping to save face. there is a great deal of commerce that can be created via ship-building ports,.etc., etc,.. in greece.remember the geographic location of greece and its islands are prima`strategic in so many different ways when the agean sea and sea of marmara are navigated via the grandiose mediterranean, with a boot of sicilian wine to go with that ouzo.
its an alternative... that can become doable with trust-- this strategy will give second thoughts to erdogan backstabbing his neighbor but a seascape away...[?] reinventing those nasty otto[turk]-russo wars not so long ago!
jmo
remember when the british fighter jets doing their runs into iraq's northern territory, erdogan would call off some particular uk sorties. he'd summon the uk flight schedule commander to stop the bombing while simultaneously sending out his own bombers. these were american given fighting f-16s loaded to the gils with unimaginable weaponry into kurdish territory totally killing everyone. the fighter pilots soon realized after visually seeing what erdogan was doing refused to fly missions. they considered erdogan guilty of genocide and war crimes. the pilots called back into their aborted missions would see the turkey af jets fly by fully loaded and come back totally empty. note: this was a great act of humanitarism done by the uk fighter pilots that wanted nothing to do with killing innocent children, old age, women and helpless villagers far from the enemies red` zone!