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Debt Slaves: 7 Out Of 10 Americans Believe That Debt "Is A Necessity In Their Lives"
Submitted by Michael Snyder via The End of The American Dream blog,
Could you live without debt? Most Americans say that they cannot. According to a brand new Pew survey, approximately 7 out of every 10 Americans believe that “debt is a necessity in their lives”, and approximately 8 out of every 10 Americans actually have debt right now. Most of us like to think that “someday” we will get out of the hole and quit being debt slaves, but very few of us ever actually accomplish this. That is because the entire system is designed to trap us in debt before we even get out into the “real world” and keep us in debt until we die. Sadly, most Americans don’t even realize what is being done to them.
In America today, debt is considered to be just part of normal life. We go into debt to go to college, we go into debt to buy a vehicle, we go into debt to buy a home, and we are constantly using our credit cards to buy the things that we think we need.
As a result, this generation of Americans is absolutely swimming in debt. The following are some of the findings of the Pew survey that I mentioned above…
*”8 in 10 Americans have debt, with mortgages the most common liability.”
*”Although younger generations of Americans are the most likely to have debt (89 percent of Gen Xers and 86 percent of millennials do), older generations are increasingly carrying debt into retirement.”
*”7 in 10 Americans said debt is a necessity in their lives, even though they prefer not to have it.”
Most of us wish that we didn’t have any debt, but we have bought into the lie that it is a necessary part of life in America in the 21st century.
It has been estimated that 43 percent of all American households spend more money than they make each month, and U.S. households are more than 11 trillion dollars in debt at this point.
When it comes to government debt, that is easy for us to blame on someone else, but all of this household debt is undoubtedly something that we have done to ourselves.
It all starts at a very early age for most of us. When we are still in high school, we are endlessly told about how important a college education is. All of the authority figures in our lives insist that we should just try to get into the best school that we possibly can and to not even worry about how much it will cost.
So many of us go into staggering amounts of debt before we even get out into the working world. We had faith that the “good jobs” that were being promised to us would be there when we graduated.
Unfortunately, in this day and age those “good jobs” end up being a mirage more often than not.
But whether or not we can find a good job, we still have to pay off all that debt.
According to new data that was recently released, the total amount of student loan debt in the United States has risen to a grand total 1.2 trillion dollars. If you can believe it, that total has more than doubled over the past decade.
Right now, there are approximately 40 million Americans that are paying off student loan debt. For many of them, they will keep making payments on this debt until they are senior citizens.
Another way that they get you while you are still in school is with credit card debt.
I got my first credit card while I was in college, and nobody ever taught me about the potential dangers.
Today, the average U.S. household that has at least one credit card has approximately $15,950 in credit card debt.
So let’s say that you have that much credit card debt and you are paying an annual interest rate of 17 percent. If you only pay the minimum payment each month, it will take you 229 months to pay your credit card off, and during that time you will have paid $13,505.82 in interest charges.
In other words, you will almost have paid twice as much for everything that you originally bought with your credit card by the time it is all said and done.
This is why banks love to give you credit cards. If they can get back nearly twice as much money as they originally give you, they get rich and you get poor.
Most of us get loaded down with even more debt when we go to buy a vehicle. Instead of saving up and getting what we can afford, many of us end up getting the largest loans that we can qualify for.
In a previous article, I discussed the fact that the average auto loan at signing in America today is approximately $27,000. In order to get the monthly payments down to a level where we can afford them, many of these auto loans are now being stretched out for six or seven years. In fact, the number of auto loans that exceed 72 months has hit at an all-time high of 29.5 percent.
It is the same thing with home loans.
In the old days, it was extremely rare for a mortgage to be stretched over 30 years, but today that is pretty much the standard.
Sadly, most people don’t understand how much money this is costing them.
If you take out a $300,000 mortgage at 3.92 percent and stretch it over 30 years, you will end up paying back a grand total of $510,640.
In other words, you will pay for two houses by the time you are done.
Yes, we all need somewhere to live, and there are definitely negatives to renting as well. But it is very important that we all understand what is being done to us.
And I haven’t even discussed one of the most insidious forms of debt yet.
Have you noticed that most doctors and most hospitals will never tell you how much something is going to cost in advance?
They get us when we are at our most vulnerable. When there is something wrong with us physically, we are often desperate to get help. So we don’t ask too many questions and we just go along with whatever they say.
But then later we get the bill and we are often completely shocked by what they have charged us.
If you are completely unethical, it is a great business model. People that are extremely desperate and needy come to you and you don’t even have to tell them how much your services are going to cost. And then once they leave, you send them an absolutely outrageous bill for whatever you feel like charging.
Frankly, I don’t know how a lot of people working in the medical field live with themselves. In their extreme greed, they are ruining the lives of millions of ordinary American families.
One very disturbing study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either currently have medical bill problems or are paying off medical debt. And collection agencies seek to collect unpaid medical bills from about 30 million of us each and every year.
Most of us will spend our entire lives paying off debt.
That is why we are called debt slaves – our hard work makes others extremely wealthy.
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Debt = Slow Death
Neither a borrower nor a lender be?
Those old aphorisms were brim full of use full truths...
Repayment is a heavy burden for the soul,
and burdened souls are easy to tame.
Nature says abundance, man says scarcity.
Credit is not of nature's way.
Aha, now I made it rhyme a little bit too.
Perhaps Boundless credit and 0 debt is nature's way?
Our role is to polish our gem of temperance ;-)
They say this is a Shemitah year. I just hope Shemitah doesn't do that scary black woman thing where her head moves side to side.
So the problem isn't so much debt, it's the illegal interest rates and tax policys which keep Americans slaves of money their entire lives. Financial emancipation bitches, coming soon to a town near you.
Stupid English pay an average $27,000 for an automobile? $27,000? That rapidly turns into a $1500 automobile over a period of 8 years?
Then you pay $300,000 for a wood box on .15ac of land that cost the builder, Pulte Homes $65,000 to construct?
http://www.blackrock.com/corporate/en-us/investor-relations/company-over...
James Grosfeld
Former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Pulte Homes, Inc.
Would you guys wake up please?! I'm embarrassed for you far too often.
Some like to THINK they are FREE...
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/freedumbs-just-another-word/
Yea, hey English stooooopids.
Let's all go get our teeth whitened today, ok?!~
http://amishoutlaws.com/amish_steppin805.jpg
Anyone here think they are out of debt? Think again. Your share of the national debt is about $500K.
From Snyder's website:
We believe in the millennial reign of Christ during which Jesus will rule over earth for 1,000 years following His second coming.
We believe that a final judgment will take place for all those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and cast into the lake of fire.
We believe and look forward to a new heaven and a new earth that God will create. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following the millennial reign of Jesus on Earth.
http://whatdoesthebiblesayabout.com/archives/what-do-we-believe-our-stat...
http://whatdoesthebiblesayabout.com/archives/what-does-the-bible-say-abo...
Who cares what a creationist simpleton with delusions of genocide thinks about the economy? Does he have any original insight to contribute? Why is this retard's facile shit even considered for zerohedge. Embarrassing is an understatement.
If zerohedge wants to allow paying contributors like snyder, ramireZZZ et al- they should respect their readers enough to inform us that an article's author has paid to have the article published, anything less is dishonest.
Discipline and patience are man's best friends; instant gratification is always false. It takes time for things to grow, but when they do, the bounty is bountiful. From plants you grow, to things you learn and make make, to your bodily skills... these are your only assets. Debt is a slap in the face to the disciplined, patient, and prudent. I will do business without debt, everything out of pocket, slowly built. Everything good takes time.
very well said
lots of wisdom...
7 fucking morrons out of 10...
the eighth deadly sin - debt! self inflicted short term gratification with false expectations.
mankinds ultimate weakness. sign and drive-vw slogan. and they come running fast as they can.
should have got into finance, ha.
suck my dick bankers, suck hard and blow me off and i'm give you some interest, ha...
Who cares about debt. There's a freaking lion dead in Africa!
A dead lion would not be such a story, disingenuous of you. It's the American trophy hunter angle that is disturbing, as it should be.
Hunters with guns = COWARDS....
You're a complete idiot and will be the reason that lions go extinct. Enjoy your genocide.
If you actually bothered to read any of the news, there were no guns involved in the killing of this particular lion.
Gun rights are one of the few reasons America hasn't been completely overthrown, so count yourself as part of the problem.
Regards,
Cooter
Azit turns out, I did.
Dope shot him with an arrow first, injured the beast, found him 40 hours later and put him out of his misery with a gun.
I'll say the same thing again and you really ought to try and understand natures balance.
It does not include a fucking trophy hunter killing an apex predator that was doing nothing to him. In a land 6,000 miles away.
See?
Your views are the one's that need re-freshing, not mine.
Guns will save you, sure they will....
ask 500,000 cambodians and 6 million jews. 20 million plus othesr slaughtered by "lion" hunters, ha.
yea, your blow dart peace pipe will save you, ha again...
You can bet that even though the dentist was armed with a crossbow, his two "guides" had rifles in case the lion somehow got the upper hand.
Flying to Africa, driving into a game preserve to lure out a lion that has become conditioned to being around humans and killing the endangered creature is so destructive and pointless. Roll time back 100 years or so, I imagine he could have found a village that needed a lion problem solved. And hiking into roadless terrain fully populated with untamed wildlife, and depending on 1800's technology to keep you alive would have been a worthy test of a hunter.
I find the fact that the politicians on both sides know it is not legal, but look the other way, because they want to make the rich fucks happy, disturbing. Just like they do on Wall Street. Different rules for them and us.
He didn't shoot Cecil with a gun, he shot him with an arrow.
It was a 40 hour hunt.
They nicked him with an arrow and then finished it with a gun....
Fucker thought he was Trazan or some such....
Who is Trazan, anyway? Enjoy your cheeseburger for lunch.
If you see Trazan rollin' his purple Escalade with 24" rims through your 'hood, lemme know. That thieving pimp owes me $$$!!!
Did you even read the lion story? The dude shot it with a bow you moron!
Did you? He first shot it with a bow and then shot it with a gun 40 hours later, moron.
...and I got fired for using the "N" word.
oh funny...
Did he do Cecil's teeth before blowing him away?
WOW! 20% of americans have no debt? I find that amazing. I thought it would be less then 2% have no debt. Even someone like Trump has some debt.
Properly managed, debt can be an asset, especially in business. Why would I pay for my vehicle when I can finance it for 0.9% and use the $30,000 to expand my business instead?
It's the money, stupid.
"20% of americans have no debt?" I was thinking the same thing. Author thought that was shocking but to me it's shockingly high amount without debt. BTW, I have no debt; cars paid for, house paid for, no revolving debt, no student loans. It's a good feeling and I don't know of very many in the same boat.
7 out of 10 Americans don't know they're obese either and it's not a fad.
Merikans = stupid ignorant free shit fools
They aren't Robinson Crusoe.
It is a human rights violation to use humans as collateral
I have no outstanding debt, but I am still a debt slave.
A business owner. For every $1 I earn the government tells me I am in debt to them for 40-cents.
Don't pay, and the government will swat team my home and family. Resist and they kill us.
Land of the Free? Judge for yourself.
Bullion Direct goes belly up
On July 20, 2015, BullionDirect, Inc. filed a bankruptcy petition, Chapter 11 No. 15-10940 in the U. S. Bankruptcy Court, Western District of Texas, Austin Division Additional notices will appear at this site regarding hearings, deadlines, filing proofs of claim and other such matters. [PDF notice]
http://www.bulliondirect.com/
Im sure many orders will go unfilled...
http://about.ag/BullionDirect.htm
Fucked
All by design. The great lie is that you should "work hard and be responsible".
Yeah? Why? Because it feeds the beast in Wall Street and Washington? The bailouts and free money for the banks/corporations/insurers wiped that idea off the slate.
Give me sound money and start producing again while offering me interest on my savings and we can start talking about responsibility. The example set by Wall Street and Washington is that debt is good, so what the fuck do they expect regular folks to do, keep carrying their bags?
Fuck you assholes, to Hell and back on a bed of nails.
You need Mintcoin. Sound money, with a sustainable % savings rate.
So go ahead and vote.
That way you get to keep the system that guarantees you'll be endebted forevah!
Fiat money. The gift that keeps on ... taking.
Vote 1 for Trump. Go Trump!
I wanna be slaved.
I must confess. I declared bankruptcy back in the late 80's. Not proud of that time in my life but it was legal and it literally saved me. Since then, "If I can't buy that product/service with the cash in my wallet, then I wasn't suppose to have it." has been my philosophy for the last 25 years, and even though the State stills owns my real estate, more or less (various taxes), I'm basically free. Debt is a killer of ones mental, physical and emotional immune system. I highly recommend avoiding IT at all costs. Debit card is the only plastic money in my wallet, along with some fiat currency. My bank is the color of Gold and SIlver.
Debt doesn't have to be the boogey man. One must truly understand debt and use it to his advantage. ( And no, throwing an Xbox, diamond earrings, and a vacation on a credit card is NOT using debt to your advantage.)
Agree In4, debt like currency, a gun or a hammer is a tool. In the hands of a responsible individual they can be used for good and for progress, but in the hands of an imbicile, well I'll let ur imagination fill in the gap.
In General People are stupid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0he0cqHH20
And people wonder how Hitler took over in Germany.
People in the US are now more gullible than the Germans in the 20's.
Tough to keep liberty.
All the US needs is a full-fledged tyrant.
Speaking of gullible, take a look in the mirror.
http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/
Step one: stop tying in the quantity of your possessions with your self-worth. That shift in mindset alone will keep a lot of debt out of your life.
Major inflation is their friend.
This is one of the few topics around here that actually makes me feel good. 100% debt free for last ten years.
Paying off everything off ahead of time, cutting down the interest, was my primary goal for years.
Them damn bankers won't squeeze another penny out of me!
Welcome to the club. Been a member for about that long myself.
I knew I'd like the financial freedom. I knew I'd like how much money it saved me.
What it took a few years debt-free to understand was that in a world measured in debt, I would become invisible. I can not be viewed using their technology any more. I'm a steath bomber with glider wings and a zero coefficient of drag.
$3,000 left in credit card debt and I join the club. I actually have cash to pay off my last two cards completely, but wanting to stack a bit more first.
I'm in kind of a no-man's land myself. Just paid off one card, have a few hundred on a second and 10 grand on a third. But: the sales on silver are so awesome I've been considering taking another hit to increase my stash instead of paying it all down. If it all really goes down in September as so many are saying, is it better to have less debt, or more metal? Even been thinking about getting another car, while the interest is so low and there are so many sales...but without a paycheck and possibly no gas available if the worst comes to pass, I'm thinking twice. But even then, what are they going to do if I can't pay? There will be a hundred million in the same boat. They gonna gun us ALL down and take it all back??
Wait, don't answer that...
best thing is to get out of debt !!!!!!!!
silver is cheap and you can always get that in the future.
forget about getting another car and keep using the one you have
I dont understand why people even bother to get a credit card?
I applied one just because they offerd it. Didnt ever use it for a years so i canceled it.
Normal debit card is way enough, dont buy anything you cant afford!
I only wish I would use more cash, but I guess I'm too lazy and getting those stupid bonus points for every buy with the card in addition.
Hope the devil doesnt get me for sloth.
Are you excluding Mortgage debt, Car loans, student loans?
pay off debt first then start stacking...
w/o debt you will have money to buy...
Not sure I follow... We're still on their radar, still receive offers for new credit cards, mortgages, on a regular basis. I thought freezing/ locking our credit would stop the harassment, but they still try to drag us back in....
Those cats have a bit too much time on their hands, keep stackin.
I am partially happy for you, partially because so long the Bankster Dollar is our mean of exchange , we are slaves to them. Fiat is their tool to keep us under their thumb, and they pay the politicians to bid for their cause.
So until we make fundamental change to our advantage , exchange excess fiat to Gold ( they can not print it ) .
They always try to load you down with more, I keep getting credit card applications, I always put a few sheets of legal size paper in them to make them weigh more than an ouce, then mail back since postage is paid by the adressee. Makes me smile every time! :)
If the 100th monkey effect applies here, we will be part of an awakened populace that watches the ctrl+alt+del of USD and the resultant house of cards.
As we know debt is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it is worth becoming an indentured servent for a payout later.
We take out a loan, or at least most of us, for a house. This helps us build up equity instead of wasting it all on rent every month. By retirement people should own their home outright and not have to pay rent during their retirement. Most smart people are even able to downsize and stick some money in their savings.
A large percentage of people take out a loan for school. We have all read articled of idiots getting a 4 year degree in women's studies at a fancy private school, having a loan of $120,000, and never being able to pay it off. But the smart people who go to school maybe a state school, for a degree that is marketable do better than those without a degree.
A reliable car can help us save time, thus money, getting to and from work and other places. The key buying something basic and reliable and not a brand new sports car.
I'm glad we have the ability to borrow money. It has helped me immensily in my own personal life. And I would say, I would be worse off without it.
100% correct. That's how everyone should use credit. It's to jumpstart your life and career. A guy starts a business and gives up a percentage of his ownership for seed money from a bank or investor in the hopes that the business will be worth more in the future. Nobody seems to have a problem with that. When a citizen uses credit for college or a home, they are doing so to profit in the future, not unlike the guy who starts a business.
I have a mortgage and i don't view it as equity at all.
just a place to live while i am here on earth.
i have rented a lot and don't really see this as anything different.
Once i paid a landlord
now i pay a bank
Debth
nice.....
Ah, the silent 'b'. You get an 'A'.
Ugh. You all know my screen name, what it stands for and my opinions on debt. Posting up on this subject borders on the tedious for me, but for those who haven't heard it yet, here it is....
If you have a valid financial reason for going into debt, that is to say you have a well-considered goal for your debt exposure, debt is not necessarily bad. For instance, if you are going to be a professional photographer you might need to buy some cameras and photography equipment that will be necessary for you to exist in that world. You are INVESTING in yourself. Nothing wrong with using debt for that if you can't pay as you go straight out of pocket.
Further down the totem pole is something like buying a house. A collateralized obligation. One you have the USE of the asset while you pay it off. I'm less enthusiastic about this sort of stuff but if it's a necessity (like having a place to live) I can't fault you for doing it. BUT IT WILL NEVER MAKE YOU MORE PRODUCTIVE OR INCREASE YOUR EARNING POWER. You feeling me on this? The key here is to pay that bitch down as fast as possible and minimize your interest expense because it's a pure dead-weight loss to you.
ANYTHING else, you don't need to go into debt over. So just don't. Better to do without than go into debt over anything beyond this point.
There really are very few exceptions to these simple rules (unless you are a government in which case everything is an excuse to go into debt since you're just spending other people's money).
OK, but: what about taking a hit now to buy some gold, or a silver monster box or ten, knowing what is coming? This is my current existential question (along with what the proper lead::silver ratio should be). Would the debt be worth taking on, knowing I've got phys in hand that could be worth far more very soon, in a climate where the market has crashed and everyone is in the same boat?
this scheme of things in this world could go on and on and on.... b4 it falls apart.
Focus on the present and don't buy anything that will get you into further debt.
Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Kiyosaki would like you to read his book.
so everyone here that crows that they are 'debt free' like it is some badge of honor are idiots. accumulate as much debt as possible right up to the point we crash....think anyone is going to be around to collect...hahaha. suckers. NOW IS THE TIME IN FIAT HISTORY TO HAVE AS MUCH DEBT AS POSSIBLE and live life like there is no tomorrow.
Poor advice. You have no idea how long the circus will continue and their jaws are always snapping to find de-faulters...
hannah, you should know by now not to attack any debt free ZHer's. Oh Regional Indian is correct. You need to be in a better position than default. But if you really want to do it that way you want we can do it like this. Hide your assets as best you can. No title, no loan, none of that shit. Have a place lined up to stay. Have a heavy duty vehicle ready to haul a lot of heavy stuff because you have more shit then you think you do.
Have some cash job lined up. Know how to do something that other's can't seem to figure out that is simple for you to do.
You did not ask me, but I would not do that because of deflation. We will deflate first, it is happening now. When things crash, everyone sells their good shit all at the same time hoping to get some fiat. Prices go down because of supply and demand. I don't know how long it is going to take. In that situation debt is bad because dollars will be scarce. You will be "under water" on everything. They will collect. If you could hold on through deflation, then you have a winning strategy. I would not do it because I do not know how long the unwinding and decreasing asset prices are going to take.
No debts, no regrets.
Don't go after nickels in front of steam rollers, is my policy. YMMV.
Yeah, there is good debt. A solid cash flowing real estate investment with fixed rate loan and decent leverage. A house is a different deal, I have suggested buying 2-4 units rather than a SFR... you get income or live for free with write-offs and depreciation. The tax laws allow you to charge off repairs and maintenance and at the same time depreciate the improvements and deduct interest expenses.Rents are likely to trend upward in excess of increases in fixed and operating expenses and after 30 years the place is F&C. Personal and disccretionary debt usually involves financing a depreciating asset.
What is rarely discussed is a very big componenet of the Great Recession of 2008 was LEVERAGE. Also, define poor for someone who is debt free and does not have to work to live... many would call that a very rich life.
I don't believe in consumer debt. Never had a credit card. Never got a car loan--I take public transportation. It just so happens that I save at last 15 percent of my income. Avoiding consumer debt might have something to do with that.
I only see three types of 'good debt'--(1) business loan; (2) student loan; (3) mortgage. Notice the intent of these types of debt: debt which may lead to a future increase of personal wealth. Even here, one must be careful. Borrowing money for a English degree is daft. Heck, I read fiction and don't have to borrow money for it. Concerning borrowing money to buy a house: good if your mortgage payment is about the same as you would have been paying for rent.
I've wondered what the consequences to society would be, if say, a new --and popular--religion arose which had the above views on debt. That would be a threat to the financial establishment
I'll add the caveat on the business loan. Only get one for expansion that you can afford. Don't get one to start the business. Then again I'm probably a crazy one.
I agree with your caveat to my original comments.
Heterodox; there is no good debt possible in a privately bank owned cartel that we have, aka, the Federal reserve system. Many people pay off debts right now, but it's at the expense of other people necessarily being unable to pay off their debts. Of course the more thoughtful, harder working debt serfs pay the banks back the principal (which they borrowed) and the interest; but the interest itself represents the 'principal' that the less lucky borrowers had obtained by the banks (against collateral of course, which the banks seize from the less lucky borrowers).
In other words, the banks rely on all of debt serfs fighting with each other, lowering prices, working longer hours, all FOR THEM!!!! All so that they can seize assets of the unluckly borrowers, and obtain the interest income of the lucky borrowers.
The Whole System is Rotten!!!
Well, I wish I could say I was debt free, but I am not. But, I have been working like the dickens since 2008 and am getting real close. 2yrs maybe.
At different points in my life I have ran the gamut from been debt free to being in hock up to my eyeballs. I don't reckon anyone needs a sermon on which one was more fun.
The problem with debt is it looks alll swimmingly when you get it, but life has a tendency to throw those nasty curve balls that hit you from out of nowhere. Thats when it separates the men from the boys in the crunch. Sometimes you survive it other times you lose
there is a good type of debt, if there is such a thing.
This is when say, I work for some years and manage to save say 40k. I can then safely go to a bank and borrow 40k and keep mine to try to make some of the payments, Leverage if you will. Try to never borrow more than you could walk in the next day an pay off in full and USUALLY you can avoid trouble. This is the only kind of Debt I recommend........Unless you like not sleeping at night and eating Tums.
Personally, when I get debt free this time, I don't think I want anything to do with a bank ever again after all they have done to this country.
"He that increases desire, increases sadness." Buddah and no Im not buddist
Debt slave and tax slave. 50+% of your income goes to some form of tax.
Realize this : Debt is a Cabal WMD
Step in front of the line serf. I'll let you become the water bottle girl. When we stop spending, you will feel the pain. Entitlements will shrink. So will Hope and Change.
Obama will have transformed you into a modern day slave. Color doesn't matter. The White House Negro a Slavemaster. Watch how the secret TPP agreement unfolds. He intends to restore US wages to $1.50. Hoping to bring back core technology dominace. Wishful thinking.
That 7 out of 10 is not what it seems like in the headline. That 7 out of 10 applies to people already captured in the debt-slave system. Of course they need debt.
The more relevant question would be the theoretical one. Namely, "if you had refused to get into debt since birth, would you be dead now?".
The answer to that question would be NO from at least 9 out of 10 people (unless regular folks are even more dishonest than I imagine).
-----
Note that in a non-fiat world without fractional reserve nonsense, the quantity of available credit/debt would be so much lower that lenders would be very careful who they lent to.
In fact, old foggies who were adults from before outright fiat (1971) told me there used to be a saying, "the only people who can get a loan are people who don't need one". That may be a slight exaggeration, but probably not much.
In a non fiat/credit world houses and many other things would be a LOT more affordable. Credit drives up the price to usuary levels just like with education today.
Yup, the cost of a home over 30 years is 8x to 12x what it would be living in a pure gold-standard world with no fractional-reserve or predators-that-be.
The demand side of the equation was astronomically bloated by fiat and fractional-reserve practices. Plus the notion of taxing people on what they supposedly already own (their home). Plus endless other predatory interventions created by the predators-that-be (government, central-banksters, banksters)
"The demand side of the equation was astronomically bloated by fiat and fractional-reserve practices."
This is the philosophical crux of the whole question. Our priests of the high religion "Economy" have convinced the masses that "Economy" runs on demand, NOT on production. As long as people are willing to accept a system that requires excess demand over production, nothing changes. That's a hearts and minds question, and the trend - all around the world, I might note - is still going in the wrong direction.
You are correct, when goober went to the bank to get money to buy the gas station the banker said he needed colladeral in order to get the money, goober said it sounds like you are telling me in order to get a loan, I have to prove I don't need one.
My assumption is something like this:
-----
If you wanted to borrow to operate a profit-generating business like that gas station, they consider the gas station as partial collateral... probably about 50% of current value. The lender figures "the chance the value will fall more than 50% is negligible", so they make the loan.
If you wanted to borrow to consume something, you'd have to put up something worth twice as much as the loan as collateral. So if you outright own a million-dollar yacht, and you want to borrow $500K to construct a machine shop in your garage, they'd require you sign over the yacht as collateral. At least.
But but but but debt is literally worse than AIDS and cancer combined, ZH commenters - who would be agricultural serfs living in thatch-roof huts (or, more likely, would never have been born or survived infancy) if not for the accumulated results of credit for the past few thousand years - told me so!
All debt is usury! Always! All debts are odious! Always! All loans are predatory! Always! The marginal utility of debt is zero! Always!
Ignore the fact that all of modernity was and is debt-funded, nearly all technological advancement was and is debt-funded, and that to the extent anything like capitalism ever existed, it always and everywhere means breaking down barriers to the creation and allocation of credit.
Anyone who judges that modern industrial civilization is worth having has already unequivocally agreed that debt, obscene amounts of debt, is necessary... they just don't realize it yet (and would never admit it), because they suffer from a perfectly convenient and extraordinarily powerful delusion regarding the value of their labor...
Hey Toten, I'd be willing to let banks loan out real money, meaning money they have been entrusted with by depositors or investors. But not one more day should they be allowed to create money out of nothing and lend out!!! At interest with collateral backing it. Banks create credit money at interest; all our money comes from banks 'granting us serfs' loans of this newly created fiat money, be they governments, businesses, or individuals. But each day, the interest grows while the newly created money stays the same, and only continually creating new money prevents bankruptcy and seizing of collateral by the banks. Of course the banks like to seize assets, so from time to time they declare us to be overextended and bad credit risks (and the earlier cheap money loans naturally leads to over producing and thus falling prices), and now the banks seize assets. It's what they really live for of course, not lending newly created fiat money even though that is insanely profitable and riskless.
"Anyone who judges that modern industrial civilization is worth having..."
That's the rub for most isn't it. Where does all this lead?
10 out of 10 Q99X2s believe that debt is the fools problem that lent it On my planet banksters are set on fire and launched from any one of 12 sacrificial pyramids.
Debt slaves by design! Murrica!
If you take out a $300,000 mortgage at 3.92 percent and stretch it over 30 years, you will end up paying back a grand total of $510,640. Not only that, you'll also probably pay around that again in property taxes. So by the time you've paid it off, you'll have paid for 3 houses. And of course, the more it appreciates, the more tax you pay... not that you're getting anything extra out of those dollars, you're just paying the pensions of city admin that warmed seats for a few decades, not to mention elected officials who serve for a single term and then get a lifetime pension with healthcare out of it.
and of course, the building quality in the us is a complete and total joke. in most jurisdictions you're not even allowed to build solid homes, for fear that the police won't be able to break in. kickproof doors that open outward? against code in more than half the us. solid concrete walls? there is a maximum thickness and regulation on the hardness and how it is enforced. how the roof is tied to the structure? more regulation on that as well. euro-style rolladen shutters? most communities ban them because they make the surrounding homes look less safe. landscaping is subject to approval, security features are more or less banned. a man's home is his castle, as long as that castle has no moat, is made out of sticks and twigs and has a big sign that says "free candy inside".
fuck us housing.
Very astute comment.
The age of Ownership is coming ashore, to a wrecking yard near us...
it's trash. that's the problem.
the problem with debt in the us is that people just dont have any money, it's all a fucking illusion. savings rate goes from 0% to 0.5% and the media hypes on and on about how much americans are saving again! america died in the early 70s. america died when a minimum wage worker who chucked in an extra 10 hours a week or equivalent overtime would land their family square into middle class. afford housing, a car, college, family vacations, etc. etc. all on that single salary. THAT was the american dream. that dream is over.
Minimum wage is $8.05 an hour. You could be married, with both spouses earning double minimum wage. And you're looking at less than $50k a year after basic taxes. Closer to around $47k, and that is before insurance, housing, transportation and other basic expenses. under $3900 a month. Now, finding jobs that pay double minimum wage? Not that many out there and lots of competition for them. This is basically 2 people working 4 minimum wage jobs and STILL poor.
The dream is fucking dead, understand that. The only way the majority of people can pretend it's not dead is by taking out loads of debt and hoping to be able to pay it off. By doing this however, they are giving up all future savings potential... and PRAYING that their income goes up and they can "inflate" away those debts. The entire american dream is based on infinite growth that allows for infinite debt. It works until it doesn't and then *poof* it's all gone overnight.
Right now, mortgages are CHEAP, but you have to have credit ratings to get them. Normal people will never be getting those sub-4% rates. Those are the rates for those with money already. you poors can get the loanshark rates. so enjoy that i guess.
the future is not bright, the future has been bought on margin and margin calls are coming.
America died much earlier, December 24th 1913 to be precise, when the Federal Reserve act was passed mysteriously by congress the day before Christmas, when all the opposition lawmakers had left DC, thinking that that the session that year had ended.
Yeah and the irony is that the bank earns that $210K interest payment when you sign your name to the loan document, and then, poof!!, the bank creates the credit of $300K to pay the seller of the house. What hard work the banker did right there, to convince you the buyer that they are needed in the process!!! What total theives and crooks these bankers become with their fiat money. I have to hand it them though, it's a slick way to control the slaves, er... citizens I meant to say.
And if you don't pay them the back, the bank pockets the mostly upfront interest payments, declares the loan to be a 'nonperforming asset', and seizes the house that they didn't build.... What total theives and crooks the banksers are; slick but crooked.
Actually, it is much worse than that! The easy availability of debt has artificially driven the cost of homes up enormously.
A few years ago I figured out the actually difference in what the cost of a home would be without the human predators involved, and the answer was "current home costs are 8x to 12x higher". That estimate is "all things considered".
In fact, that brings the price down so far that many parents could literally buy homes for their kids, or the kids could live a frugal life for five years and save enough to buy their first modest home. In fact, a home could be a great "wedding present", since the cost could be shared by the two set of parents.
+1 easy availability of credit drives prices up
call a spade a spade
credit expansion works in the same way as subsidies: the first thing that happens is that demand expansion drives prices up
credit is what people ask for. credit is more. credit is good. credit shall not be hampered. nobody is happy if someone comes and says: you should not get credit for that
then credit is provided.... and becomes debt
debt is what people moan about. debt is bad. debt is suffering. someone ought to do something about debt
but debt is always first credit
meanwhile, reflect on how many people, including here on ZH, would be horrified if current home costs would drop some 8x to 12x lower
Sure, many would be horrified... for a few seconds, minutes, hours, days (depending on how smart they were).
After the initial shock (my home is only worth 10% of what I owe), they'd grin.
Then they'd default, turn the keys in to the bank.
Then they'd buy a home with cash.
And live happily ever after.
Of course, if that happened, the banksters would be pushing and shoving on the roof of tall buildings so they could get to the edge and dive off. And good riddens.
PS: The total cost would be 8x to 12x lower, not the initial price (though that would be enormously lower too). But the lower original price would not include interest, agents, closing costs, fees, points, property tax, etc.
I was watching BBC show about homes in UK. Lots of the old homes in the country were built in 1500 or even eariler.
2 foot thick stone walls. They renovate them to high standards and they will stand for another 1000 years
There are certain rural counties (very few, but they exist) where no building rules apply at all. The acreage and property taxes in these areas tend to be quite affordable to boot. Win-win.
It is a MAD Money As Debt system: governments ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks, that get to make the public "money" supply out of nothing AS DEBTS ... If there were no more debts inside of that system, then there would be no more money.
The closer one is to the SOURCE of the "money" made out of nothing as debts, the better off one may be. While the reverse tends to be that the further away from the SOURCE of the public "money" supply being made out of nothing as debts, the worse that becomes for those people. The minority of people who are personally not in debt are still INSIDE the overall MAD Money As Debt system. It is practically impossible not to be stuck INSIDE of fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, since those almost totally dominate everything, while DEBT SLAVERY BACKED BY WARS BASED ON DECEIT has become debt insanities provoking death insanities.
Governments ENFORCING FRAUDS by privately controlled banks,
which results in a Wonderland Matrix Bizarro Mirror World,
where everything appears to become absurdly backwards,
about at exponentially accelerating rates, since everything
is based on the history of triumphant organized crime!
We have reached the point where about 99% of the political economy is based upon integrated systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, while those who previously profited from doing that therefore continue to become even more able to continue to do that more ... Generally speaking, it is NOT possible for people to fully comprehend globalized systems of electronic monkey money frauds, backed by the threat of force from apes with atomic bombs. That has become almost inconceivably corrupt and crazy, and has already passed beyond the event horizon into a social black hole, due to the degree that everything was more and more based upon ENFORCING FRAUDS.
The only connection between human laws and natural laws is the ability to back up lies with violence, which has become the foundation of political economy based upon triumphantly ENFORCED FRAUDS. The social successfulness based upon being able to take advantage of ENFORCED FRAUDS has made the gambling with "money" made out of nothing become bigger and BIGGER, to the degree to which that virtual world has become larger and LARGER than the physical world. Since the ways that physical violence was able to ENFORCE FRAUDS, but those continued to still be false, everything "economic" has become psychotic, in proportion to the degree to which everything is dominated by those established systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS. Therefore, it has become practically impossible to imagine what the "corrections" to that scale of triumphantly ENFORCED FRAUDS could become ???
Indeed, those are such EXTREME COLLECTIVE SOCIAL INSANITIES that it has become practically impossible to fully imagine or comprehend the magnitude of those. By and large, the established systems could only come to exist and continue because of the ways that those systems could be operated by the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrites, whose personal degree of social successfulness depended upon them operating inside of the established systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS, and thereby taking advantage of them. Those who were closer to the ENFORCED FRAUDS' SOURCE benefited the most from those ENFORCED FRAUDS, and thereby were then the most able to continue to reinvest their profits from those FRAUDS IN MORE FRAUDS, through the increasingly vicious spirals of the FUNDING OF POLITICS.
ENFORCED FRAUDS ARE INTENSELY PARADOXICAL.
It is almost impossible to exaggerate the degree to which our civilization has become runaway criminal insanities, which are automatically becoming more psychotic, because everything became based upon ENFORCING FRAUDS, which basic facts were as deliberately ignored and denied as much as possible by those who benefited most from doing that, in each short-term increment, as well as into the more medium term. The double whammy INTENSE PARADOXES are that human beings must live as entropic pumps of energy flows, but they have developed to do that in the most socially successful ways through the maximization of ENFORCING FRAUDS, which included that civilization reversed the meaning of entropy, as one of the most abstract ways that civilization reversed the meaning of almost everything else, due to triumphantly ENFORCED FRAUDS creating a more and more Wonderland Matrix Bizarro World, whereby everything became more and more absurdly backwards.
In general, Snyder's articles tend to present too superficial an analysis. A deeper analysis reveals that not only are the established systems based upon ENFORCED FRAUDS, but that they also must necessarily be. While Snyder is well-aware that the public "money" supply is being created out of nothing as debts, because governments ENFORCE FRAUDS, he appears unable or unwilling to think through the deeper aspects of that system of MAD Money as Debt.
Money is measurement backed by murder. The vast majority of people do not understand that, and do not want to understand that the debt controls are backed by the death controls. But nevertheless, it is the supposed "public" powers of governments which ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks, in order that what exists is MAD Money As Debt, backed by MAD Mutual Assured Destruction. The international bankers were the biggest gangsters, the banksters, that were able to make and maintain the MAD Money As Debt systems, by applying the methods of organized crime to the political processes, whose successfulness became vicious feedback loops, automatically getting worse, faster, at about an exponential rate, as was especially demonstrated with respect to the American situation since the 1970s.
Overall American debts have been getting exponentially worse for several decades, in ways which have become more obvious, due to each doubling becoming more flabbergasting. For instance, President Obama has presided over the government of the USA doubling its debts more than during all previous Presidents, while President Bush before him also did the same thing. The next President would have to preside over yet again doubling the total debts, or else the established social pyramid systems would collapse into chaos. Anyone who doubts that those are the basic social facts should take several hundred hours to watch these free Excellent Videos on Money Systems ... However, the consequences of doing that will be that the more one learns, the worse it will get!
The bigger background problems were that "money" made out of nothing as debts was "paying" to strip-mine the planet's natural resources at an exponentially accelerating rate. Everyone, in proportion to how much of a piece of that pie served out through the debt treadmill, benefited from strip-mining the planet's natural resources. Of course, all of that was being done through fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, BUT, those who were able to take on the most debts were also the ones who were most able to enjoy the benefits derived from strip-mining the planet, while those who were most privileged to be able to make that public "money" supply out of nothing as debts for everyone else enjoyed the maximum possible benefits from the planet's natural resources being strip-mined. The underlying reasons for why the established MAD Money As Debt systems are developing serious problems are due to the degree that there are beginning to manifest limits of diminishing returns from being able to continue to strip-mine the planet at an exponentially accelerating rate. Very few people appear to be willing and able to face those basic facts. Civilization as a whole continues to deliberately ignore that, as far as any public debates regarding those issues are allowed to manifest in any significant ways.
While everything presented in the article above by Snyder was superficially correct, he tends to continue to stay on that superficial level, and therefore, implies relatively bogus "solutions," which are similarly superficial. The basic problems are due to the debt controls being backed by the death controls, or that money is measurement backed by murder, which basic problems have developed to become that governments ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks, because those banksters were the best organized gangs of criminals, which were able to capture control over the biggest forms of organized crime, which are governments. To face those facts, and then propose genuine solutions which are consistent with those facts, results in recognizing that the only realistic resolutions to the real problems would require better organized crime, in the sense that the only way to change the money system would be to change the murder system, since money is necessarily measurement backed by murder, because the debt controls are backed by the death controls.
Of course, the ruling classes do not want to admit and address those facts in any publicly significant ways, nor do their controlled opposition groups, nor do the vast majority of the people who are being ruled over. However, in my opinion, the ruling classes have covertly been preparing to deal with the future situations where their debt slavery systems finally drive the resulting debt insanities to the point of psychotic breakdowns, which will then provoke death insanities. Those things will mostly have the material underlying causes that the real diminishing returns from being able to continue to strip-mine the planet's natural resources at an exponential rate will stop the debt engine treadmill from being able to continue to accelerate, and not enable the established systems to continue to double down on their total debts. We have barely ever seen anything like that happen before in overall human history, since previously Neolithic Civilizations always had a fresh planet to plunder and rape.
Overall, it is terribly tragic that the vast majority of people do not understand any of that, mostly because they do not want to understand that. There is almost NO chance of any publicly significant answers to Snyder's questions being presented, since both the rulers and those they rule over would not like those answers, similar to how both the core of organized crime, and its surrounding layers of controlled opposition, would not like those.
Absolutely NOT, as long as the MAD Money As Debt system provides the public "money" supply. Those who think that they personally are not in debt are delusional, because they are still stuck inside of the overall public monetary and taxation systems, and could not live outside of those fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems.
To actually change that would require enough people understand enough of what I have outlined above, which is politically impossible to happen at the present time. The overwhelming vast majority of "We the People" as "citizens," are actually members of an organized crime gang that they call their country. However, almost all of them have been so brainwashed to believe in the banksters' bullshit world view that those "citizens" actually behave like incompetent political idiots, or Zombie Sheeple. Instead of the public controlling the public money supply, the best organized gangsters, the banksters, control the public "money" supply, through having made and maintained the MAD Money As Debt systems.
The citizens could not regain control over the public money supply unless they were able to sufficiently understand that money is measurement backed by murder, because the debt controls depend upon the death controls. Since the vast majority of people do not understand that, and do not want to understand that, we continue to actually have the existing situation, in America, and pretty well everywhere else, that the public "money" supplies are being controlled by the best organized gangsters, the banksters, who were able to do so by applying the methods of organized crime to the political processes, through increasing dominance over all aspects of the POLITICAL FUNDING, including bribery, intimidation, and assassination of those who could not be bribed or intimidated. Therefore, the existing social pyramid systems have the banksters on top, while almost all surviving and successful politicians are the banksters' puppets, who are voted for by enough of the masses of muppets, who were brainwashed during their whole lives to believe in the banksters' bullshit, while the school systems and mass media continued to LIE BY OMISSION about the most important social facts regarding how the monetary and taxation systems really worked.
Snyder concluded by discussing the medical problems and bills. The banksters' and their buddies profit from every evil thing that they can possibly do, through integrated systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, regarding pretty well everything. The medical system is inside the monetary system, which inside of the military system. The political economy is inside the human ecology. Those actually operate as combined money/murder systems, based upon the maximum possible frauds and deceits. Therefore, what exists in North America, perhaps more than anywhere else in the world, are the combinations of systems based upon Profit From Junk Food, and Profit From Disease. Those work together to torture to death at least an order of magnitude more people than the Military Industrial Complex does. Those also drag more people deeper into debt slavery and debt insanities by at least an order of magnitude more than the Military Industrial Complex does.
Snyder, as almost everyone else who somewhat becomes superficially aware of those sets of sociopolitical and medical facts, then tends to promote superficial "solutions," which deliberately do not address the underlying issues, which are that the actual death control systems operate through the maximum possible deceits, because, previously, during human history, that was the most socially successful strategy. All of that returns us to the basic background problems, regarding how and why civilization ended up being controlled by systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS, which are becoming MADDER every day, and therefore, are headed towards some series of psychotic breakdowns, since those systems of debt slavery backed by wars based on deceit are generating debt insanities, whose default "solutions" within social pyramid systems are death insanities.
There are NO easy ways out ... The only things that actually exist are the dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies operating robberies. Therefore, the only realistic resolutions to the real problems are to change the dynamic equilibria of those systems. Obviously, since there is nothing now that is public significant than the social pyramid systems of the rulers and those ruled over, which means that there is almost nothing but a core of organized crime, surrounded by controlled opposition groups, it appears to be politically impossible for enough people to understand and agree that the only genuine solutions to their problems are to develop better systems of organized crime, as the only way that there could actually be better government, which would primarily manifest through the combined money/murder systems, as better debt controls, backed by better death controls.
At the present time, the biggest bullies' bullshit world view almost totally dominates everything, including by that bullshit being built into the natural languages that we use to think and communicate, as well as incorporated into the dominant philosophy of science. Therefore, the best organized gangsters, the banksters, continue to be able to control governments, to ENFORCE FRAUDS, and hence, those debt slavery systems have enslaved almost everyone, including even those who may not personally be directly in debt, but still do not enjoy the privileges of being able to make the public "money" supply as debts for everyone else.
Even those who enjoy the privileges of being able to make the public "money" supply out of nothing (which then they tend to use to gamble with inside the economic systems, as if they are the owners of those casinos) still are also stuck inside of the overall longer term consequences of civilization being controlled by systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS, which are becoming more psychotic and criminally insane, the more socially successful they are. Since being able to ENFORCE FRAUDS never stops those frauds from still being false, even those who control the ENFORCED FRAUD SOURCES of the public "money" supply are losing control ...
Radical Marijuana: 2,653 words ... amazing ... and clueless
Starts out with the obvious ... money "is" debt ... which RM disputes.
Amazing!
The vast majority of people tend to be "clueless" about how the public money supply is being almost totally created by privately controlled banks. How the Federal Reserve Board, etc., actually work is NOT "obvious" to the majority of Americans.
What I mainly "dispute" is that public powers are used to ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks.
Meanwhile, the tone of the useless reply from withglee was probably due to my previously criticizing his own pet theory of money, as a Means Of Exchange (MOE), which is his pet perception that he has previously promoted several times in his comments on Zero Hedge, which I have pointed out is merely one aspect of the old-fashioned notions regarding what money should be:
Those ideals have little relationship to what the public "money" actually has become, namely ENFORCED FRAUDS. That enables there to perhaps develop dynamic equilibria between the factors that are involved, so that there may appear to be more voluntary trading. However, all of that voluntary trading is done INSIDE systems that ENFORCE FRAUDS.
Withglee likes to pound upon the first point that money should be a Medium Of Exchange. However, he maintains the typical deliberate ignorance towards the ways that any "promises to complete a trade" actually exist within the context where there could be ROBBERY instead, while the government is fundamentally based upon it being able to engage in legalized robbery, because nobody else can stop that, and while the best organized gang of criminals, the banksters, have captured control over governments by dominating the history of the funding of politics, so that governments' actual use of their power to tax, as legalized robbery, mostly ENFORCES FRAUDS by privately controlled banks being able to create public "money" supply out of nothing as debts, because everyone is forced to use that kind of "money" to pay taxes with, and otherwise use as the legal tender.
I no longer find it to be "amazing" that guys like withglee continue to be so deliberately ignorant regarding and how and why the actual PUBLIC MONEY IS BASED UPON ENFORCED FRAUD. It is extremely common for people to deliberately ignore that, and/or for those who notice to then continue to promote bullshit "solutions" based upon "what money should be" that have no relationship to the physical world, as understood through physical science. Indeed, withglee is typically unscientific, and adamantly so, which is why he does not respect any more scientific, deeper analysis of how and why the existing monetary systems are MAD Money As Debt, based upon governments ENFORCING FRAUDS by privately controlled banks.
The definition of "money" that is most consistent with all the social facts is that MONEY IS MEASUREMENT BACKED BY MURDER. Almost everyone is drowning in debts due to civilization being controlled by organized crime, in ways that they do NOT want to understand. Whatever money should be does not matter when what actually exists is a system of runaway debt slavery, through which ENFORCED FRAUDS almost everything that could be robbed by means of those symbolic robberies has already been robbed.
It is way too typical for various people to promote their favourite theories about what money should be, in ways which are anti-scientific to the degree that those theories deliberately ignore why the public "money" supply actually is what it IS! Withglee is merely another one of those doing that, who believe that promoting their favourite notions regarding what money should be is something more than self-indulgent bullshit ... Meanwhile, the established systems of debt slavery are automatically driving there to become worse and worse DEBT INSANITIES, which are aided and abetted by various political idiots promoting their favourite impossible ideals regarding what money should be, that deliberately ignore the actual mechanisms that made the public "money" supply become based upon ENFORCED FRAUDS.
Amerikans here's how to stay out of debt.
1. Save for a house for 5 years like my Pakistani friend did before the 08 crash and pay cash. Even "poor" Indians pay cash for real estate. Wait for the next RE crash to buy
2.. Drive an older low mileage car.
3. Screw credit cards. If you can't pay cash then you don't need it
4. Take a medical trip overseas. It's surprisingly cheap.
I know someone who works for KLM and they get free flight benefits worldwide and they take long weekend trips to Thailand to get dental work. Its very cheap and excellent also.
My wife's in Bolivia right now getting care. She doesn't trust profit motivated medicine in the US.
so the reality is you either live as debt slave or die homeless
The South was right!
The propaganda brainwash is certainly working. I wonder when they start exporting them as a trade.
How many people can afford to buy a home outright?
Having your own home provides a very basic need for secure shelter.
This need is exploited to the maximum with mortgage products that take your whole life to pay off.
Debt is almost inescapable and your basic need for secure shelter is used to turn you into a debt slave for life.
Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal – that there is no human relation between master and slave.” Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer.
The trickle up of Capitalism
a) Those with excess capital invest it and collect interest, dividends and rent.
b) Those with insufficient capital borrow money and pay interest and rent.
Why those born into wealthy families have such a head start.
I bought my home outright (200k) but sacrificed working in Libya for 2 years to earn it TAX FREE.
Actually it was not much of a sacrifice having to stay in 5 star hotels flying heads of state around .
Research into 'cob building'. Lots of work, but I'll take a year of hard work over 30 years of mortgage servitude any day.
Buttman, you are in debt because you decided to go into debt. You decided to get a cell phone, internet, cable tv, a car and on and on. No gun to your emty noggin. You just did it. Its called freedom to choose. If you want to be free of debt, then get rid of everything. You showed your communst hand with the trickle up capitalism comment. Communists are fucking whiners who cant make it without taking from those who ca, out of fairness, of course. You are all lazy fucking whiners. Learn to make a living by providing something of value or start suckin dick. If you gonna eat, you gotta work, if you want to have fancy things to keep up with your neighbors, then you gonna be in debt and since, guessing by your comment, you got no skill, so it sounds like you will need to get you some kneepads. Try amazon ill bet they would have something like that. There should be a communist cocksucker section, given none of you assholes want to work the demand should be huge.. I know its a capitalistic venture and against your moral values, but its either that or pay a greedy doctor for new knees.
Why does the world have such a dim view of Americans?
One of the reasons the ZioMedia continues to demonze Muslims is because Muslims don't believe in usury.
Another reason the Jew controlled world banking wants to take down Iran .
We deomize muslims because they are fucking cretins. They are child molesters and they hate Americans. Not sure i need much more of a reason to hate muslims. By the way, did you also happen to know that they kill fags for just being fags? They als cut up womens private pars and treat them like dogs. They sound like awesome people. And dont give me this moderate muslim shit. That is like a moderate viper. Personally, i thing we should just bomb the fuck out of the middle east and start a las vegas over there. The first restaurant should be a pork barbecue joint and then a piggly wiggly grocery store. Dumbas.. Why dont you educate yourself instead of regurgitating fucking stupidity. Muslims suck and so do people who sympathize with them. How many jesw have bombed a subway? How many jews flew planes into buildings killing thousands of people? Every fucking time its a muslim. They are pussies who cant fight in the light of day. Once we remove the queer metrosexual mullato from the whitehouse and get a real man back in there, we canget back to the business of kicking ass again. We will knock those idiots back into the stone age.........wait aminute, they are in the stone age now, so they shouldnt mind.
You are an ignorant goddam Fucktard.
Jesus fucking Christ , you are one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen comment.
Go crawl back into your 8x40 , shithead.
I bet you have never been outside of your COUNTY much less COUNTRY (being in military doesn't count).
Unclemunky
Not only can I see my doctor within 45 minutes after calling him but they also still do house calls in case I can't make it.
So dipshit I busted yet another myth .
Piggly Wiggly grocery store in the Middle East, LOL.
Governments steal a HUGE percentage of your earnings - >45% in the USA, >60% in the EU - and you all complain instead about lenders charging you a small interest rate for borrowing money that you want but have not earned -
WAKE UP - the regime has you focused on the individual trees so that you do not see the ugly forest !
If the regimes were NOT stealing your earnings to buy votes with entitlement programs,
then you would keep most of your earnings,
AND
then you would not need to borrow money to pay for necessities like housing because you could easily save enough of your own earnings to pay cash, or make large down-payments and pay the mortgage off very quickly.
The enemies of the working person are the greedy socialist entitlement-program infinitely money-consuming vote-buying corrupt politicians and their earnings harvesting and redistributing regimes,
NOT
lenders.
60 percent in the EU? Why is it then I have more disposable income here in the EU than I ever had in the USA.
My health insurance costs 90 euros a month for unlimited coverage with an annual 375 Euro deductible ( I guess you guys call it Co-Pay). Once I pay that even if I had a 100,000 hospital bill I pay nothing. and our health care is far superiour to boot.
Add up all you nickel and dime taxes and you actually pay MORE in the USA than we do,
Sure. We can get into an actual dr's office within 2hrs of a phone call. You guys have to wait six weeks. Dont worry. Obama has fixed that problem. As for hacking the greedy doctors, what makes them so greedy for wanting to make a liviing worse than you being so greedy not wanting to pay for their services? Its a two way street and it is these free market principles we speak of here. Would you sit there and haggle with a guy who can swap out your heart and give you anothe 30 yeras of life? Whats that worth? I promise you, if the govt and insurance companies were not colluding in the health care business, prices would be realistic and affordable. The only reason they are not is that "free" insurance you pay for. Fuck obama and fuck european socialism that you assholes have brought over here.
What??????????????????????
That is pure bullshit. I can call doctor and be in clinic in 45 minutes.
Where the fuck do you guys get these loony myths from??
You are a total idiot. TOTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You don't have a clue about our single payer system.
Get educated and STOP believing myths
You are a total idiot. TOTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You don't have a clue about our single payer system.
Get educated and STOP believing myths
Socialism?????????????? ROFLMAO
We have single payer private system here, NOT govt
We also have competition in the market. with over 10 companies vying for your business in our small country of 17 million people.
Another example is internet and cellphone .
I pay 19 euros a month for fiber optic broadband, (no data limit) and 10 euros a month for 4G service on my smartphone.
Because we also have over 10 companies providing 3g/4g service and broadband
More MYTHS busted for you sonny.
WE are far more capitalistic with more small businesses per capita than the USA.
And we have lots of manufacturing also.
Unclemunky ,
Your whole comment is 100 percent BULLSHIT.
What is bad is there are people here who would believe YOU and not ME who actually lives in what you ''socialism'
The utter stupidity and gulliblity and ignorance of guys like you is beyond belief.
Unclemunky
Not only can I see my doctor within 45 minutes after calling him but they also still do house calls in case I can't make it.
So dipshit I busted yet another myth .
It is not just America! ..... fractional reserve banking is global.
The system wants (NEEDS) everyone in debt....... and if you do not take the debt ..... governments will take the debt on your behalf......
...... and YOU WILL underwrite the debt by paying your taxes......under threat of violence should you fail to comply.
Sorry to say it, but those who insist we're free?..... they are w***ers.
"Right now, there are approximately 40 million Americans that are paying off student loan debt. For many of them, they will keep making payments on this debt until they are senior citizens."
Stupid Americans--oh wait, I owe student debt, and I am a senior citizen.
What really seems odd to me though is not the debt but rather the question: Will I have a job available till I'm 74? (my 30k will be paid off by then)
The job question really is the important one.
Debt free for the second time in 30 years (except for one airline card that we pay off every month for the miles... wife's idea, not mine).
I would feel a lot better about it if I thought I had another 20-30 years to enjoy it before I died or everything went to crap.
Debt free for over 10 years. Is a great feeling to be able to buy something in store or online with CASH (debit card).
Leave it all to your kids or nieces/nephews who’ll promptly sell everything and blow the cash.
Debt free for years, and still loving it. Don't miss making payments at all. In addition, my personal Central Bank has ample PM reserves. Couldn't have done that without being debt free.
Choices.
Create a cash advance store. You can clearly see they’ll pay you 25% interest without much argument.
Back in the old days they called it loan sharking and was highly illegal
Now its NORMAL
Back in the old days they called it loan sharking and was highly illegal
Now its NORMAL
Buying a house is the biggest rip off in the world, next to buying a car.
I paid $160k for my house just before they pricked the housing bubble. Now it's worth around $130K
So I'll pay a total of about $300K for it and sell it for around 130K in a few years. Meaning that, I'll lose 30k off the value and give the bankster $140K in interest.
So for 30 years of working my ass off on a house and to own a house I get to lose $170K to the banksters.
HA! What a joke....I would NEVER DO IT AGAIN!
Now, lets talk about my car wich will end up costing me about 40K when I'm done paying for it and may be worth 5K on a trade in....
Ah, lets not. It's too depressing. And besides, I have to get ready for work.
Get rid of the payments and you don’t need work.