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The Cost of Stagnation: We're Living In Limbo
Submitted by Charles Hugh-Smith of OfTwoMinds blog,
This erosion of opportunities to complete life's stages and core dramas is rarely recognized, much less addressed.
The idea that human life subdivides rather naturally into stages is based on our natural progression from childhood into adulthood and eventual (if we're lucky) old age.
Confucian thought views life as a developmental process with seven stages, each roughly corresponding to a decade: childhood, young adulthood (16-30), age of independence (30-39), age of mental independence (40-49), age of spiritual maturity (50-59), age of acceptance (60-69), and age of unification (70 - end of life).
Each stage has various tasks, goals and duties, which establish the foundation for the next stage.
Each stage is centered on a core human challenge: for the teenager, establishing an identity and life that is independent of parents; for the young adult, finding a mate and establishing a career; for the middle-aged, navigating the challenges of raising children and establishing some measure of financial security; for those in late middle-age, helping offspring reach independent adulthood and caring for aging parents; early old age, seeking fulfillment now that life's primary duties have been accomplished and managing one's health; and old age, the passage of accepting mortality and the loss of vitality.
The End of Secure Work and the diminishing returns of financialization are disrupting these core human challenges and frustrating those who are unable to proceed to the next stage of life:
1. Teenagers are being pressured to focus their lives on achieving a conventional financial success (see "Training for Discontent" in From Left Field) that is becoming harder to achieve.
2. Young adults without secure full-time careers cannot afford marriage or children, so they extend the self-absorption of late adolescence into middle age.
3. The middle-aged are finding financial security elusive or out of reach as they struggle to fund their young adult children, aging parents and their own retirement.
4. Increasing longevity is pressuring the late-middle-aged's stage of fulfillment, as elderly parents may require care even as their children reach their own retirement (65-70).
The financial pressures generated by the demise of financialization and the End of Secure Work are not just disrupting each stage; they are upending essential financial balances between the young, the middle-aged and the old.
The elderly, protected by generous social welfare benefits paid by current taxpayers, also benefit from the soaring value of assets such as real estate and stocks. Meanwhile, financialization's asset bubbles have pushed housing beyond the reach of most young people.
Downsizing, lay-offs, low-paying replacement work and poor decisions to buy houses near the peak of the prior bubble have left many of the middle-aged with high fixed costs and a stagnant or increasingly insecure income.
The stresses of trying to make enough money to afford what was once assumed to be a birthright--a "middle class" lifestyle--is taking a heavy toll on the mental and physical health of the middle-aged, leaving many of them too tired for any fulfilling activities and easy prey for destructive self-medication.
This erosion of opportunities to complete life's stages and core dramas is rarely recognized, much less addressed. We are constantly bombarded with messages to innovate, keep up, be fulfilled, etc.--essentially impossible demands for those with multiple generational and/or business duties.
The most workable and productive response to these financial disruptions is to focus not on what's scarce and fraught with intense competition (the top 5% slots of conventional financial security) but on what's still abundant, which is opportunities outside conventional hierarchies, ways of reducing fixed costs and life-skills that happen to be entrepreneurial, adaptive and fulfilling.
When I talk about the Mobile Creative class in Get a Job & Build a Real Career, I'm not talking about a finance-centric definition of success or a path to join the top 5% in Corporate America and the government. The herd is chasing those dwindling slots, too, guaranteeing frustration and failure for the 95% who won't secure one of those slots.
What we're really discussing is a way of living that places a premium on independent thinking, maintaining very low fixed costs, establishing a healthy honesty with oneself and one's associates and customers, the ability to make realistic assessments of oneself, one's successes, failures and errors, and a focus on challenges, opportunities, risks, adaptability, flexibility and experimentation, all with a goal of building one's own human, social and material capital--the foundations not just of well-being but of any meaningful measure of wealth.
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I would offer a simpler explanation: When you fuck with the time-value of money by pursuing 0% interest rates for extended periods of time, funny things happen. Not "ha ha" funny, "oh, shit" funny.
The incentive to do anything now as opposed to later goes right in the shitter. Buy a hosue? Why? Invest in plant and equipment? Why? Absolutely no point in it.
That will be even funnier even these turn negative.
Yeah, that would be downright hysterical. Not "Laugh out loud" hysterical. More like "You just became Japan" hysterical.
Rar ra ra rara ra ra ra ra
If one backs up a hundred years or so, I am not sure this narrative holds. This is the post-oil, service oriented life everyone has gotten used to ... and the next hundred years or so will definately NOT be like the previous hundred.
It all falls down and life gets really hard and the global population probably goes into reverse (which is what it is doing in OECD countries ex immigration).
Oh, and ZIRP just destroys capital, but TPTB don't give a shit.
Regards,
Cooter
Good.
We all should get it started and kill our Tee Vees now
But what the sheeple don't realize is how soon entire cities that go off-limits such as Baltimore, Detroit, Philly.
Maybe then they'll wake up
This article has shades of the Unabomber Manifesto, which I've been reading lately. Except the main thesis in the UM is that people have been deprived of experiencing the "power process" (the personal exercise of power over other people).
I am Chumbawamba.
Stagnation is used by the elites to prepare the peasants for world war.
I really relate to this notion of living in limbo. Without going into too much detail, the gist is that from 2009 to 2012, I was doing pretty well (on my own scale anyway). I had steady income, and enough left over each month to stack PMs on a regular basis. "Dollar cost averaging" was discussed in all of the "stacker" articles. I felt good about keeping my money out of the corrupt system, which I knew (and told everyone that would listen) was going to collapse any day.
Fast forward to today. That steady income is long gone. I am getting by, but I just don't have the drive that I used to. It's hard to get motivated to build anew when you see the steady decline of customers willing/able to pay for your services - all the while knowing that surely things will be getting much worse any day now.
My plan was to buy a few acres, and live the simple life while doing a bit of freelance work here and there, but PMs have been hammered, and I would lose too much if I were to trade my stack for land as I had planned.
I still feel good about the decisions I made, given the information I had at the time, but I've learned much in recent years. That primarily being that the entire monetary system IS corruption, and those in power will steal value from you one way or another until the second it all comes crashing down. They can even steal value from you if you hold PMs IF you are forced to sell it at artificially low prices. You can hold out, and wait for the collapse, but even then they are stealing time from you (which I would suggest is very valuable indeed).
Anyway, I have chosen to give them only my time, as while it is valuable to me, it is of the least value to them - fuck'em - I'd rather die never having spent a penny than to let them have it. So I remain in limbo.
... "What we're really discussing is a way of living that places a premium on independent thinking, ..."
... wow, that's deep ... it's like ... life is like a septic tank, only the big turds rise to the top ...
... but in this greedy world, "a premium on independent thinking" does not make a red shield, a red shield ... a way of living that places a premium on pure independent greed is what makes this world go round ... and when greed is halted, that's when stagnation kicks in ... (not a nation of stags or patriarchal society like Japan ;) ... sorry, I digress ...
Time is the ONLY thing that you cannot get more of.
Have a reason for spending your time.
balanced ... I am a frequent reader but almost never login. I only did so this time to upvote your comment because it's so spot on, I just needed to let you know.
So many points here:
"Steady decline of customers willing/able to pay your services". I see this everywhere I turn, and even I try to shop around for internet freebies, discounts, etc.
"I still feel good about the decisions I made, given the information I had at the time". I made the same decision, with less net worth, but nonetheless the same. Betting the system is corrupt and gold was truth. Well, it turns out they could corrupt gold as well(through naked paper shorts). In retrospect, I dont regret the decision because it was the right one. But boy it has cost dearly.
But the best, you left for last: "but even then they are stealing time from you". Many people either ignore this even exists when investing, or downgrade its importance. Yes, your investment may be valuable in X years, but are you going to be alive? Are you going to be healthy to enjoy it? How many opportunities are you losing because you don't have this capital now, etc ....
My hat goes off to you my friend.
That is when they invade the South (again).
Between now and then is learning all the progressive youngin's how evil those gun toting, bible reading, land owning southerns are because of flags or race or something.
Regards,
Cooter
They do not need to invade with troops, they are invading the south and red states with illegals and refugees. Tennessee.. parts of it are drowning in muslim immigrants from Somalia, and other places. In the last 15 years Georgia has had a 400
percent increase of illegals from Mexico..most in service sector, meat packing carpet mills, road crews, forgetbAtlanta and some of the suburbs its gone. When they vote the newbies vote
by 80 percent margin for democrats. The moron female gov. Of Wyomi g wants to import more third worlders to her state..sooner or later many of those states will become like Virginia with its huge pop of recent immigrants..a former red state primarily ..going blue...its only a matter of time.
If anyone cares to understand the world we live in:
http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2014/092814_files/TheFateofEmp...
Cities such as Baltimore, Detroit and Philly may go off-limits, but thanks to Obama's latest HUD plans the urban denizens will soon be relocated into your suburban landscape. The destruction of America is gaining speed. Or, as Obama would call it, a fundamental transformation.
Every time I look to stay away from this site (filling rapidly with vapid Party Pussies and idiots) I run across your postings and I have second thoughts. Very few people get it that there's ALWAYS a peak. Sadly, supposedly smart people like CHS resort to panderings and pushes the entitlement meme that's so horribly rampant that it clouds us from seeing what is but a simple math problem (perpetual growth on a finite planet is NOT possible).
The math problem of moar growth always has been "solved" by financial gimmicks and pure fraud. There are many stories about money changers getting kicked out of somewhere. If there's any truth to the stories, they weren't gone long.
It went sideways for good whren the magic of interest came to be. When I'd first learned of the Sumarians I thought it was a great idea. Sadly, interest went from actual tangible things to virtual things, and with that allowed the trickery of the money-changers...
Interest is really the same as Growth. As can be seen today interest rates are down everywhere because growth is no longer possible (to fake, as it has been fakes for many years now). Now that we have all these contracts out there expecting more cattle to be birthed than can possibly be birthed there's going to be a lot of blood being spilled.
From someone who was schooled in advanced engineering math, from vector calculus to statistics and probability and even small signal analysis, I agree with your statement that "Interest is really the same as growth". Many years ago (when I realized that overall growth was likely to go away due to peak resource extraction and resource depletion) I reached the conclusion that the whole banking business model of interest bearing accounts would likely go away at the same time as if they were linked at the hip. And this type of consideration of interest being linked to growth applies to debt and other investments and instruments. There is interest on debt too that would seemed linked to growth, and therefore be just as structurally challenged.
The delta change over time on this would first force declining intererst rates, then ZIRP, then NIRP.
Austerity, and bail ins and bail outs would seem to be natural first derivative effects from an over the top point of view on the math and the current model.
And yes, CHS does pander at times. His best work is done when it aligns with the Peak Prosperity mindset.
You know, it's been really lonely out here! Again, if not for folks, liike yourself, with their own brains I'd close the door here and never look back (getting tired of all the Party Pussy types and the "it's the illegals and <whatever 'other political party'> folks' fault" fuckers here.
"The surface of a planet is not the correct place for an expanding, techonological civilization." R.A. Wilson
The roman empire kicked on for several centuries after that incident, a full millenium in the eastern half. I am thinking that if Jesus was perfect then his point whupping ass on the money changers in the temple was not to top tick the roman empire for us.
Yeah, but it, Roman Empire, was pretty much uncontested and was clearly only buying time before total collapse. Further, they weren't sitting on a stack of nukes and huge hazardous industrial facilities that, as the breakdown progresses, poses the risk for instant collapse.
It is true that perpetual growth in the face of finite resources is not possible. Spaceship Earth is only so large, and by many analyses, already has more human cargo than can be accommodated by natural processes. Think human intervention in the carbon cycle presents a threat to survival? Take a look at what we are doing to the nitrogen cycle. That which cannot be sustained will not be sustained.
This is the ultimate conundrum. Does humanity address this problem directly, or do we default to nature to solve this problem for us cyclically?
As you have noted, It is frustrating to understand this when there is so little evidence of comprehension elsewhere.
IMHO, I don't see real progress on this question for many generations, perhaps eons. We have been in a qualitative decline for more than one hundred years already, and we simply lack the philosophical sophistication as a species at this time to take up the issues that confront our growth and development.
Departing from the natural cycle of boom and bust for systems that lack inherent stability (read: humanity) will require many qualities that are not possessed in anything close to sufficient degree. We will be fortunate if the future improves this, but it does not have to.
I tend to shy away from TRYING to answer this BIG question because people jump to conclusions that I am condoning any "solution."
Well, let's back up a bit here and I'll state why I don't think it's possible, and this position can be firmly anchored in the very word that is "solution." The word "solution" defines permanence. As long as time happens NOTHING can be permanent. I could state that the planet's finiteness is, therefore, not as it was, as it is, or what it will be- it's constantly changing; however, the changes are clearly insignificant in so far as to address the concerns over limited resources necessary to support continued [exponential] human population growth: if "God" comes, still waiting, then maybe; if "technology comes," still waiting, maybe; if aliens come, still waiting, then maybe; etc..
I don't offer "solutions" because it's a constant moving target. The US Founders kind of kept the notion of a living Constitution with the realization that things change and that it's essential to allow change rather than fight it (losing battle). That, of course, then allows us to wander from the core/essence of the Constitution itself! What the hell does this have to do with the "solution" of growth's problems? I merely wish to point out the conundrum of establishing some sort of organizing principles with that of being able to facilitate change in the face of encountering in the future what is not known today.
To-date "economics" has been an attempt to acknowledge finiteness. Sadly, we have erased this notion in the Big Picture because we became addicted to crack, er, oil. The power that oil unleashed is stunning. It has cranked up the growth machine to such an extent that we've created a HUGE "middle class," something that has never existed before in human history. Who pulls the plug on the party? NOTE: at the core it's always about POWER; a more historically comprehensive "blame" could be easily slapped on "interest," but "interest" alone can't get 'er done (physical resources; so, I couched all this in the most imfluential physical resource that we have come in contact with).
No matter if "god" "himself" came down and explained it to us, humans would never believe (and that includes the supposed "believers"- "god will provide" in which case if "god" said "no" then those people would believe that it's NOT "god").
I accept arguments from all sorts of points of view because I believe that this is the only way to discover what is closest to allowing our continued survival. Sadly, too many people believe that they have the "solution" (political or religious). History has proven us humans to be more than skilled at self-delusion, that we are more than ready to engage in hubris. If you look around at nature you'll see how masterful it is at deception; humans are OF nature.
Humans, with the exception of smaller tribes throughout human history, have never addressed the issue of growth. Those smaller tribes? Infanticide. It's the ugly reality. It's that or war. OR, and since elders tend to be in positions of power, elders are "excused" (along the lines of the movie Logan's Run). We'll slowly break up into smaller groups, all proclaiming superiority; it'll be true to the extend of being superior at surviving in a specific location; since every location is different there can't be any one-size-fits-all solution (for the same reason why a One Wold Government ain't going to happen- I've had this argument so many times, especially with the god-freaks who are so adamant that it's going to happen [despite the FACT that ALL BAD SYSTEMS FAIL, and despite their belief that their "god" is right [and is controlling everything]).
So... we continue to pit against one another. We end up scrapping as we can. Until... natural disasters and then global climate change hits us. Yeah, GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE- the next fucking glacial period which is proven to occur -it's mother nature's way of re-tilling the soil. Yeah, neither the "technology is going to [swoop down from above] and save us" or the "'god' is going to swoop down and save us" crowd wants to hear this kind of talk. I say it now because I don't give a fuck any more. I'm tired of all the intentionally ignorant, mean-spirited fucks out there and I could give a fuck if this pisses off their little brains (which are firmly programmed with pure shit).
To sum up: 1) There IS no "solution;" 2) Human hubris would keep us from engaging in anything that could be described as a universal means (and any "universal" is likely just way too complex to deploy anyway).
Best answer to how it goes down (although it's biblical I believe that the essence is based on common sense and this is in fact what we will face; source: http://www.apocalypse-soon.com/the_four_horsemen.htm):
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are mentioned in the Bible in chapter six of the Book of Revelation, which predicts that they will ride during the Apocalypse.
The four horsemen are traditionally named War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death. However, the Bible actually only names one: Death. An alternate interpretation, likely based on differing translations, holds the first Horseman to represent War and/or the Antichrist, the second to represent Pestilence (sometimes called Plague), while the third and fourth riders remain Famine and Death, respectively.
What is described by the seals is similar to the signs of the end of the age as described by Jesus in Matthew 24. There will be wars, famines and earthquakes (Mat 24:6-8), persecution (24:9-14), the heavenly bodies are shaken (Mat 24:29) and 'at that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn' (Mat 24:30).
We have replaced freedom with socialism and everybody demanded 'free' shit. Now the bill is coming due, but we're running out of people to pay it. Things are going to change, and in the worst way possible. Be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it....
Sorry, but it's less an "ism" issue than it is a human issue:
http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2014/092814_files/TheFateofEmp...
If all that we do is based on endless growth then collapse is sure to happen. What we're seeing now is basically a bribe to keep people from rising up in disgust that the System cannot deliver what is promised: nor can any system predicated on endless growth We were always going to exhaust the future for today, the only question there was was how rapidly and how soon we'd hit that point.
This is the age of "alchemy gone mad".
It is the age of FRAUD.
It has nothing to do with "human progression" or "philosophical evolution"
It is plain and simple theft by the banks using the Federal Reserve.
Kill the Federal Reserve and you kill the monster.
And there sill be monsters!
Our system is, and always has been, one of perpetual growth. Look above for the link to Sir John Glubb's writing. Thousands of years of history analyzed, most prior to the existence of the Fed and yet ALL empires collapsed. Why? (that's rhetorical- it's for you to read and discover)
There was a song about that in the 80's, although I don't think they meant it that way.
I'm turning Japanese I think I'm turning Japanese.................................
pods
You really think so...?
It's "rearry" tink so.
Bunker mentality, riding the storm out, circle the wagons.........
Agreed. While there's still a lot of drones mindlessly grinding along, and a few hysterical radicals, but most people who are paying attention are gearing up and dropping out.
As long as we have fractional reserve banking you will not obtain any of those stages (well, 90% of people), you will have these.
1. Youth- Life is fun.
2. School-when education is stressed to let you achieve max revenue (debt potential) for the owners
3. Work- Consume and make more little consumers. Think you have made it when all you are doing is going deeper into debt.
4. Red Pill-This is the longest part. It is after you figure out the scam, but realize unless you are in that top slice, you will never get the fuck out of where you are. You are saddled with debt, and your body is broken so even if you weren't broke you would not have the ability to do all the things you put off till you had enough $$ to do so.
5. Final extraction- This is when serious disease kicks in and all you worked for is gone in an instant due to medical costs and you can do nothin but sit and watch TV and realize what a scam it all was, eventually ending up face down in some pureed dish.
pods
All true. That's what we get when we have hierarchical systems, when we believe in gods and masters...
If folks think it's so bad here and now they ought to travel to most places on the globe where even during this big bubble-up there was next to no trickle-down. China is going to explode: they jump on this silly-wagon right at the end and were programmed as though they could ride it well into the sunset...
Final extraction.... this is one I still have problems with....
My one grandmother was put in the hospital, then the nursing home, then the services provided were walked back after she was milked dry.
My other grandmother fought to stay home, became more and more isolated, refused to let anyone in the house for the last year, and was able to leave a substantial estate.
Which sounds better/worse?
My mom is starting option B.... but will probably be forced into option A....
Classic lose/lose?
You cannot take it with you when you go.
Really, it's about how you live life, how you can/are able to. I've been around people who have died at home and in bed as well as those that have died under intense care. Whatever it takes to feel comfortable. Everyone is different and I respect those differences. It's the same reason why I choose to live out in the countryside and accept the hardships that are there: I like the peace and quiet, but, I know it also comes at a cost of comfort; on the converse folks give up peace and quiet for comfort, and for these people I'm glad because if they were all like me then my countryside would be overpopulated and my peace gone.
Damn pods,you make me want to get my exceptionally nice paslode nailgun out and nail myself out of here...
(my Glock would be cleaner)
Maybe for you, but not for the people who have to scrape your brains off the wall.
Before y'all do that, might I interest you in some fresh paint for that room? Guaranteed 1 coat finish and with our new polymer infusion, all it takes is a damp cloth to wipe up, umm, spills.
On sale right now for only $49.99 per gallon and there are thousands of colors to choose from.
And might I interest you in a Home Depot credit card? You can take 10% off your total purchase and I can tell you if you are approved in seconds.
pods
You're assuming I got any brains left,after the last seven years!Besides,only vodka would come out of any self-inflicted holes..
What ails America (and the world) is transformation from a 1000 years of hockey stick population growth to peak population...radically different models but some would prefer to pretend nohing is changing.
http://econimica.blogspot.com/2015/07/federal-reserves-therapy-has-nothing-to.html
Yes, I watch the tail end of logarithmic growth every day. The crowding of colonies, the depletion of nutrients and the build up of toxic waste materials. Some cling to the sides of the petrie dish and forge a courageous life on the fringes, long after their comrades have fallen. They are the survivors. Sadly I must toss them into the incinerator having no more use for them but the metaphor is not lost on me.
Miffed
Sadly, even many of the "smart" ones here refuse to understand this. They understand the impossibiliity of endless printing, but endless growth.limited resources?, nope!
Love your stuff, but this is a fixed sum game metaphor that feeds marxists and their solutions.
Huh?
Still worried about a shitty system taking over? Sorry, but you're only distracting from turly understanding the problem. Hint: ain't got nothing to do with "ists" or "isms".
Thanks for playing!
So, world wise, we need a good global 67% fatal pandemic?
Not sure if we necessarily 'need' an event like that, but rest assured, there will likely be some sort of substantial 'die-off' event by the time the great unwind is over. It just kinda goes along with the territory...
Exactly. It'll just be... And no one is to blame: it's in our nature because we're OF nature- grow, grow and grow until we burst (and if there's another cycle [if we are able to survive the next glacial period] possible we do it all over again).
Over the last thirty years the lion's share of disposable income has gone to the finance industry exclusively to the detriment of all other groups. Clearly, the cost of stagnation is the cost of doing business for the 1%ers. They don't give a rat's ass that 99 per cent of the population lives in limbo while finance travels the World to decapitate lions just for fun.
American exceptionalism knows no bounds.
BUT, it's all made up anyway! Watch all that wealth just disappear. The ONLY thing that is real is the current lifestyle. I assure yuo that later on this lifestyle for the 1% will NOT persist. OK, for some it will, as there's always a call for gods and masters.
"I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;
I refused my heart no pleasure.
My heart took delight in all my labor,
and this was the reward for all my toil.
Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done
and what I had toiled to achieve,
everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;
nothing was gained under the sun." Exactly.
Shut up and pass me the Alpo.
I remember when ZH posted David Stockman's article about Janet Yellen's mentor, James Tobin. He was an economist in the Kennedy admin, whose policies caused stagflation. He went back to academia with his tail between his legs, only to indoctrinate a new generation of elitist imbeciles in his destructive ideas. And now, meet Janet Yellen, the latest generation of such hubris!
You've been a member here for 6+ years and you still haven't learned simple math?
Perpetual growth on a finite planet is NOT possible. ANY economic "system" that is predicated on growth WILL ultimately subcomb to collapse.
Educate thyself (it's about time):
http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2014/092814_files/TheFateofEmp...
NOTE: Glubb failed to connect the dots to growth, but nonetheless he clearly documented they cycles of growth in addition to demonstrating that it makes NO difference what the organizing system is, that ALL empires collapse (even those before Kennedy's time- believe it or not! </snark>).
you know where we have a shit load of money tied up and or going to waste?
The military, the wars, and the black budgets.
Aid to Israel and Egypt alone could probably rebuild Detroit.
{I'd rather have my taxes go to unfuck an American city than to help foreign countries buy weapons from US companies whose very existence is light years from being about "defense."
The people responsible for the F-35 ought to be hung, drawn, and quartered on live television.
There's something quaintly old fashioned about closet Luddites.
Less money thrown at bankrupt cities will clear them into park space (ie Detroit) and that seems more in line with your professed beliefs.
And you believe in? Technology will save mankind? (refer to my link to Sir John Glubb's writing) And it appears that your belief system is centered on human hubris...
I'm sorry, I don't speak Stupid.
What's that quote from Twain, something about not arguing with an idiot lest folks standing nearby can't tell the difference?
Ran across someone else that said that one shouldn't look to engage an idiot because one isn't likely as well-practiced and is surely to lose the argument (because it'll be drawn down to some idiotic level, sidetracked to the point that it loses all relationship to the original discussion).
+ 100.
Why would you want to recreate Detroit? You may want to ponder how you got to the point of thinking something like that would be at all desireable.
Detroit was an OUTCOME. An outcome of sellling to the next sucker. The poorer folks eventually get the fully depreciated trash, and with it, the blame of having caused it. Fact is is that it's but a process. The wealthy then come back in, or so that's been their MO, and buy it all back pennies on the dollar and then install their buddies into the local govts to facilitate all sorts of tax incentives to "tiddy things back up." Catherine Austin Fitts (sp?) wrote about all of this.
But, for so many here, it's just the thing to do, to blame the poor for their own ills. (I see my animals do this- it's the pecking order.)
The US web is burning around the world.
Chuck, it's the growth web that's burning. US was just in the front when the fire really started to push its way down the other side of the curve.
Many people have enjoyed the benefits of being in on the Ponzi, but when it goes that''ll all be over. At least we got to sit at a table. Most (as has always been the case in human history) were still relegated to cleaning up after our feasts (and if they complained the got to experience what the defense of "democracy" and "freedom" means).
When will the US surrender?
No surrendering. It'll just be some passing of the guard, assuming of course, it can continue on an orderly path. Money and power is moving around in the world. What you see on the outside is but an image. It'll come down to bank "adjustments." The System has to be weaned back to some sense of reality; whether the System itself survives is in question, but that's always how TPTB attempt to work it; but nonetheless, economies of scale in reverse is goiing to crush eveything.
It's is after noon on a Friday.
I need a drink... or twelve.
Very concerned about APPL. It's down again today. Aren't people buying Apple Watches? i mean, we all need one of those, right?
Poor Tim Cook. He'll have to suck a smaller dick this quarter. Apple only has like $30 billion in cash. Poor suckers.
BTW, completely OT: I've found that farmers are abject liars. They say farming is hard work, whoch discourages many from entering into the field (pun intended). From where I sit (farm country), I haven't seen a farmer work three days straight in three months.
Farming is hard work... for about two months out of the year. Up here in north country, you plant (1 month), watch the sun and rain do their thing, and then harvest (2-4 weeks, depending on crops). Gardening a diverse garden is much more labor-intesive.
Farmers can be trusted about as much as cops, bankers, real estate agents, and politicians.
At least farmers grow food, so I give them a pass. Plus, they're smart, spreading that "hard work" lie for generations. All of them laughing all night overlooking their vast acreages.
I want to be a farmer, but I'm not such a big liar, so, I guess I'll just stick to gardening.
I still need that drink, dammit.
The field is but the stage. In a way farmers can be compared to actors in that the overwhelming majority of work takes place off-stage. In the case of farming there's a TON of planning and marketing going on. As much as I find it a heacache to work through plans I am way better at it than at marketing. And I suppose that the "liar" components rests more heavily in that later part of the job: you can fudge on planning, say for business loans, but only a small amount, and only for so long; and out on the field? no lying is possible as you are dealing with nature, and nature does not judge (and therefore cannot be swayed). I've learned to be more respectful of maketing folks, it's necessary and, yes, one has to be good at fudging (sadly, as I see it anyway, it's an essential part of the job).
How long has it taken other members here to save? Just curious: did it take about half a decade? I can get better returns elsewhere so I'm not sure I will ever take the plunge with my capital unless housing resets lower. I just want to see if I am spoiled in thinking that five or so years of savings for two people should not be wiped out by 20% down for housing. Probably screwed by the Chicago housing mkt here...
It's up to YOU to determine how you want to live your life: be reasonable. One: you cannot take "it" with you when you go. Two: you're NOT getting any younger.
Only 20%? Ha! I blew through a ton more. Perfectly happy with my decision: but I have land, lots of wood and water, so it all traces to "food, shelter and water."
Don't even think of turning around and "flipping," as those days are pretty much long gone: I went from expecting to retire in my in-town home to dumping it just before the US housing crash (I started asking tough questions and it led me to this decision- cost me a marriage [way bettet now!]; spent many years renting and saving (rode a bicycle to work). If it's what you WANT (assuming it's backed by sound NEEDS) then you do it. Of course, somewhere in all the mix you have to assess the risk of whether you might not be able to continue to liive in a given place, but for the most part you can answerr those issues if you really put your mind to it (and don't mask things because they might not be pretty).
If you are looking for returns, don't buy a home. A home (i.e. a primary residence) is NOT AN INVESTMENT. If you want an investment, with all the benefits of an investment, buy a rental property (or a small commercial building) in a good location with good tenant(s). Factually, the County owns my home and I rent it from them. Sure, the Title is in my name and there is no mortgage. However, if I don't pay my "property taxes" the County can lien it and sell the tax lien, giving a priority claim to the tax lien purchaser. That is not ownership or an investment. My opinion is DO NOT "buy" a primary residence (yes, it is a controversial statement and goes against conventional wisdom) if you want freedom of mobility, liquidity and growth. Right now, the market is STUPID because of ZIRP (my first mortgage in 1986 was 9.75%). Prices are getting out of control again. Patience is required. I hope this provides an alternative viewpoint and food for thought.
Yeah, I definitely agree. When I said "better returns elsewhere", I really was discussing opportunity cost and how if I had the capital not spent on housing, then I could make returns elsewhere. Plus, like you said- if I ever have to move I will not have the chance that my home value fell and the LTV is still high.
Yeah, That is why I really would want to put 20%+ down. Well, that and I do not want to pay a cent more of interest than I have to since it is criminal to have to pay time and a half. :) Most people in my area are doing 10% or less! What was the saying from Repo Man, Ordinary F%$*ing people? haha!
Did you mean by this that you put down more than 20% and then ended up losing as your home value fell and loan value stayed the same?
When I bought my first home in 1986, you HAD to put down 20%. Fixed rate, 15 or 30 year amortization were the only mortgage choices. My suggestion: if you make the fateful decision to become a home debtor (notice I didn't say home OWNER) put down as much as you can, take out a 15 yr fixed rate mortgage, and pay it down as fast as you can. For some enlightenment, look at the amortization schedule for a 15 vs 30 year loan, and then tell me if your home is "worth" the sum of all 360 payments. Good Luck. PS I just replaced my HVAC system AGAIN for $6500.
Good points all there.
What is insane: I just saw information about people who were in reverse amortizing loans or something with a baloon payment. Their LTV actually went up! The system is so messed up right now... glad they/this is not creating any distortions *sarcasm*
In 1979-1981 there were "Negative Amortization Mortgages"; the monthly payments didn't cover the principal and interest. So, the debt GREW in spite of payments being current. Nice, huh? That's what happens when rates are 20%. Google "Prime Interest Rate" and see what it was like from 1979-1982. The current rates are the lowest in modern history and can't go much lower. Housing prices and interest rates are inversely related. Be careful.
"If you are looking for returns, don't buy a home. A home (i.e. a primary residence) is NOT AN INVESTMENT."
I don't totally agree. Your statement surely applies when in the context of looking to resell. My property IS an investment in that it provides me with key things necessary to liive, for now as well as for in the future. I "invested" in it in order that it would "pay" me to do so, pay me in firewood, water and a place to raise animals. This IS wealth. And I have increased it's value, if not to others, at least to myself. And regarding taxes, you cannot readily escape them. I'm no fan. I chose property that is ag land, so my taxes are lower: they even had been reduced further, though with this latest run at another housing bubble it's pushing them back ujp again.
If you focus too closely on certain things you miss opportunities. "Never" is a word I try to avoid.
I sold at the top of the market (prior to the last bubble burst). I was patient and saved and then bought low. I suppose I could have tossed my money into the market and jacked up my paper wealth, but instead I opted to spend it so i had a better life NOW. You're either busy living or your busy dying...
There are basic four phases/stages of individual life cycle within society and when one or more of them are denied to the people, social strive and instability results causing addictions, mental illness, rampant crime as well as political extremism leading to collapse of economical foundations of society.
These are:
When one enters a corporation especially financial crime corporation, one is stuck in stage 1 like a child for life, never be able to reach adulthood mindlessly following bosses into abyss of retirement, while drugging and or drinking oneself to almost death and hating one’s life, every minute of it. Otherwise immersing oneself into realm of psychopathology. That’s how we are programmed to do “right thing” to get a good job and form family i.e. to enslave ourselves for benefit of rulers and to detriment of our humanity.
We need fundamental changes enabling everyone, to the best of one’s ability, to reach all four stages of the life cycle, devoid of autocratic submission and vicious competition to win no matter what, even if it would mean to destruction society and environment. And all of it done for nothing of human value.
If you want to know what the society we live in really is, read this:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/2015/07/17/matrix-of-control-a-s...
wisefool reinvents confucious way of life for 'mericans.
0-10 innocence growth freedom. 10-20 years indoctrination. TPTB let a false flag rip to get a war started. to collect taxes. and get the slaves fighting for the masters. Preferably on the other side of the world.
20-40. reconciliation, attempt to repeat the cycle on others, because they did it to you. Ponzi Schemes. Confidence games, mucking around with the tax code. MBA theories like hygiene motivator.
40-60 the choice. you can try to heal and go back to 0-10, but it does not matter much, as those who don't chose this path will skip to 10-20.
this doesnt make any sense didnt anyone hear Obama's comments on how great of a job he's doing and how he could win re-election?
INDICTMENT
Americans are criminals because Americans violate the Constitution of the United States of America.
The U.S. President Obama, the entire U.S. Congress, the CIA, the FBI, the U.S. Military, and the entire Police Force of these United States SWORE to protect, serve and uphold the U.S. Constitution.
The U.S. Constitution forbids usage of debt as money (referred to as 'notes') and stipulates that only gold and silver can be used as money.
Yet,
Americans commit or support and condone the murder and torture of human beings throughout planet earth in the name of democracy and freedom, all for the sake of acquiring Constitutionally fraudulent and illegal Federal Reserve Notes a.k.a (counterfeit) U.S. Dollars.
Since the United States is a democracy and Americans only elect Democrats and Republicans who perpetuate this unlawfulness,
Americans are indicted criminals according to the United States Constitution.
Spread the word.
No, you're not living in limbo!!! You are now getting a taste of how the rest of the world lives! Americans have had their heads up their asses for so long now, that they have lost touch with the rest of the world.
Another silly corporate coach who has lost market share organizing retreats because of the crisis and now has to spend time translating Confucius in business speak and blogging to drum up a customer base:
Instead of fully living your life, you complete the stages of a business project. Instead of liberating your mind, you place a premium on independent thinking. Instead of living modestly, you maintain very low fixed costs. Instead of nurturing your relationships with family and friends, you build social capital. Instead of learning and evolving as a human being, you build human capital.
Dear sir, you are a useless product of financialized capitalism and your creepy methaphors demonstrate how deeply colonized your mind is.
Typo alert, metaphors. How difficult can be to add a spellcheck function on a blog, I wonder?