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Dropping "The Bomb" On Hiroshima And Nagasaki Was Never Justified
Submitted by Naji Dahi via TheAntiMedia.org,
August 6th and 9th of 2015 mark the 70th anniversary of the U.S. dropping two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This was the first and only time a state used a nuclear device on cities (or civilians) of another state. Some conservative estimates put the immediate death toll of the two bombs at 200,000 people. This is more than the total number of American soldiers killed in the Pacific front of World War II.
Since the bombs were dropped, the U.S. government, U.S. high school history texts, and the American public have asserted that dropping the bombs was necessary. According to one review of American textbooks by Satoshi Fujita, an assistant professor of U.S. modern history at Meiji University,
“…most of the textbooks published by the early 1980s carried the U.S. government’s official view that the nuclear attacks allowed the U.S. troops to avert the invasion of Japan’s mainland and minimize American casualties, thus contributing to an early conclusion of the war.”
American politicians have continued to espouse this view. Primary among them was Harry S. Truman, the one-term president responsible for making the decision to drop the bombs in August of 1945. In his 1955 memoirs, Truman claimed the bombs saved half a million American lives. Truman insisted he felt no remorse and bragged that “he never lost any sleep over that decision,” while simultaneously referring to the Japanese as “savages, ruthless, merciless, and fanatic.” By 1991, George H.W. Bush claimed dropping the bombs saved millions of American lives. Historian Peter Kuznick sums up the ever-increasing number of American lives saved due to these actions:
“…from the War Department’s 1945 prediction of 46,000 dead to Truman’s 1955 insistence that General George Marshall feared losing a half million American lives to Stimson’s 1947 claim of over 1,000,000 casualties to George H.W. Bush’s 1991 defense of Truman’s ‘tough calculating decision, [which] spared millions of American lives,’[11] to the 1995 estimate of a crew member on Bock’s Car, the plane that bombed Nagasaki, who asserted that the bombing saved six million lives—one million Americans and five million Japanese.”
Twenty years ago (the 50th anniversary of the bombings) when the Smithsonian Museum tried to create a thought-provoking display about Enola Gay (the plane that dropped the first bomb on Hiroshima), the Senate threw a temper tantrum and passed a resolution condemning the move. The resolution stated that
“…the Enola Gay during World War II was momentous in helping to bring World War II to a merciful end, which resulted in saving the lives of Americans and Japanese.”
Of course, none of these figures about saved American lives are true. When President Truman was contemplating dropping the bomb, he consulted a panel of experts on the number of American soldiers that would be killed if the U.S. launched an invasion of the two main Japanese islands. According to historian Christian Appy,
“[Truman] did…ask a panel of military experts to offer an estimate of how many Americans might be killed if the United States launched the two major invasions of the Japanese home islands…Their figure: 40,000 – far below the half-million he would cite after the war. ”[emphasis added]
Americans are socialized to believe that dropping the bombs was necessary to end the war. As recently as January 2015, a Pew poll found that 56% of Americans believed dropping the two atomic devices was justified. Only 34% said it was not justified. This American attitude is understandable given the downplaying of Japanese deaths and the exaggeration of American lives saved in high school history books.
In spite of this public perception, dropping the nuclear bombs was totally unnecessary from a military standpoint. America’s leading generals voiced their concerns before and after the bombs were dropped. General Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Western Europe, reacted to the news in a way that contradicts politicians’ narratives:
“During his [Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson] recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives ,” he said. [emphasis added]
General Douglas MacArthur, Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in the Pacific, was not even consulted about the use of the bomb. He was only notified two days before the first bomb was dropped. When he was informed he thought “‘…it was completely unnecessary from a military point of view.’ MacArthur said that the war might ‘end sooner than some think.’ The Japanese were ‘already beaten.’”
Tough, cigar-smoking “hawk,” General Curtis LeMay—who was responsible for the firebombing of Japanese cities—was also disappointed with the decision to drop the bomb. In an exchange with reporters he said,
“The war would have been over in two weeks without the Russians entering and without the atomic bomb. [emphasis added]”
“You mean that, sir? Without the Russians and the atomic bomb?” one journalist asked.
“The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all,” LeMay replied.
Admiral Chester Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, sent out the following public statement: “The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan [emphasis added].”
While Eisenhower, MacArthur, LeMay, and Nimitz believed the dropping of the bombs to be unnecessary, Chief of Staff Admiral William D. Leahy went even further, insisting that even the contemplated invasion of Japan was unnecessary to end the war. He said,
“I was unable to see any justification…for an invasion of an already thoroughly defeated Japan. My conclusion, with which the naval representatives agreed, was that America’s least expensive course of action was to continue to intensify the air and sea blockade…I believe that a completely blockaded Japan would then fall by its own weight. [emphasis added]”
At the conclusion of the war in the Pacific, President Truman appointed a panel of 1000 experts to study the conflict. One third of the experts were civilians and two-thirds were military. The panel issued its report, entitled “United States Strategic Bombing Survey”—a 108 volume publication on the Pacific front. The survey makes the following damning conclusion about the necessity of dropping the the atomic bombs and invading Japan:
“Nevertheless, it seems clear that, even without the atomic bombing attacks, air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion. Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945,…Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated. [emphasis added]”
Even the Japanese leaders knew they were defeated. They were even secretly willing to negotiate an unconditional surrender. According to the survey, there was
“…a plan to send Prince Konoye to Moscow as a special emissary with instructions from the cabinet to negotiate for peace on terms less than unconditional surrender, but with private instructions from the Emperor to secure peace at any price.”
If dropping the bombs was not necessary, and if Japan was even willing to contemplate an unconditional surrender, then why were the bombs dropped at all? One reason referenced by several historians was to project American power against the future enemy in the Cold War, the U.S.S.R. As the Christian Science Monitor noted in 1992,
“Gregg Herken…observes…that ‘responsible traditional as well as revisionist accounts of the decision to drop the bomb now recognize that the act had behind…’a possible diplomatic advantage concerning Russia.’ Yale Prof. Gaddis Smith writes: ‘It has been demonstrated that the decision to bomb Japan was centrally connected to Truman’s confrontational approach to the Soviet Union.’”[emphasis added]
Secondly, there was a rather large incentive to use the bomb—to test its effectiveness. On that subject, the most succinct quote comes from Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet. He said, “[The scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before.”
According to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the Manhattan Project (the project to build the bomb) cost the U.S. an estimated $1,889,604,000 (in 1945 dollars) through December 31, 1945. That comes out to $25,051,739,964.00 in today’s dollars. The Center goes on to add:
“Weapons were created to be used. By 1945, the bombing of civilians was already an established practice. In fact, the earlier U.S. firebombing campaign of Japan, which began in 1944, killed an estimated 315,922 Japanese, a greater number than the estimated deaths attributed to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.”
From a purely numbers perspective, the detonation of the atomic bombs killed fewer people than the firebombing of the 67 Japanese cities with napalm. The sick logic of war is this: having killed close to 316,000 Japanese people by firebombing cities, killing 100,000-200,000 more is just as justifiable.
It is clear from the recitation of some of the evidence that the dropping of the atomic bombs was not necessary to end the war. It was not necessary to obviate the U.S. invasion of Japan (which in and of itself was not necessary) and it was not necessary for an unconditional surrender.
It is time for the United States to stop believing that the infamous nuclear attacks were justified. On that front, there is some hope. Back in 1991, 63% of Americans believed dropping the bombs was justified, compared to 56% today. Clearly, the numbers are heading in the right direction.
The U.S. government could easily nudge public opinion in the appropriate direction by issuing a public apology for the dropping of these weapons of mass destruction on the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The U.S. is capable of doing this. In 1988, the U.S. Senate voted to compensate Japanese Americans for interning them during WWII. In 1993, President Bill Clinton signed a formal letter of apology. The U.S. did the right thing by apologizing to Japanese Americans. It is time to extend this apology to the entire Japanese nation.
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Two points.
1. Many here defend the use of the atomic bombs. Maybe you are right. I wonder if you would have had the courage to push the button yourself.
2. The Soviet Union knew about atomic energy , as every nation did. They intended to use it for industrial purposes, not warfare. It was only after the United States used the bombs that the ussr started it's own bomb program. Source: Tragedy and Hope by carol quiggley.
While the atomic bomb may have initially saved lives, in light of point 2 it may well condemn all to death. Or not. No way to tell until it actually happens.
Courage, hell, half the people here want to push the button now...on us!
They're just itching for the chance!
Zionists will March the USA now into the next war - with Iran... China, Russia, India, Brazil, and whole host of other nations who want US to get comeuppins... Germany will side with Russia, France too when they overturn the government there.
When the nukes start falling on US cities please write in and say how justified the nuking of Japanese cities was in WW2.
We know that you are an islamic-cult-worshiping vermin sub-human, your opinions have no value.
They're quick to spew the Hasbara dirty Joooo screed or NeoCon blather, but never admit their Left-Hand heritage, or their CAIR rectum snooting fetishisms, or their employment in the LeninGrad basement Internet Agitprop shops, not to mention their memberships in the Buchenwald Oven Operators Union. But they've found a home of fellow travelers.
I am Christian... and Russia is the only major Christian super power... US does not qualify any more.. no xmas tree even at the white house. no prayer allowed...
So I'm not defending the quickening decay here.
That "super power" you refer to has over a hundred times the land mass, nearly three times the population, vastly more natural resources yet still can't match even decrepit, decaying Italy's GDP. Russia may be nothing more than a vast criminal enterprise but it's an incompetent criminal enterprise that is and will reain backwards, drunk and stupid because that's the way they like it.
My point made...
The Japanese Empire has been given a much undeserved pass regarding their prosecution of racial imperialism. They were as racially viscious as the Germans ever were. Their society claimed racial superiority not just regarding the whites, but against the Chinese and Koreans in particular. Never mind they're of the same race, they claimed their asian neighbors were vermin and sub human as they raped and murdered with absolute wanton barbarity in Nanking in particular. KremlinKockGobblers are always promoting historical perversion.
It’s a terrible thing to have to kill and maim 10’s of thousands of civilians to force capitulation. BUT, it had to be done. Read this…
http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-End-Imperial-Japanese-Empire/dp/014100146...
In the end, there were a collection of heroic Japanese who led the final resistance against the militarists (somewhat similar to our current neocon lunatics) who instigated and ran the war. Even after the devastation caused by two atomic bombs, the militarists wanted to continue the war to the end. They even attempted a coup (to “protect” the emperor) See-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident
My father (a young Army Sargent) was part of the planned invasion of Japan so I’m a bit biased. He, and by extension me, probably wouldn’t exist had the invasion occurred.
bah... victors write the history...
and then it gets revised by leftist pantywaists who wouldn't fight for their country.
US only lost 400,000 in WW2...
Germans and Russians lost as much in a 30 day battle on each side...
US waited till June 1944 to enter Europe a full 5 years after the war started.. they just waited till Soviets chewed the Nazis up... then walk in, take all the glory...
US had a two theater war, the Soviets did not. The US invaded North Africa in 1942 and invaded Italy in 1943. The US was fighting huge naval battles throughout the Pacific beginning in early 1942.
more BS... Soviets sent 1 million troops and freed the the whole of China from Japs...
and in case you haven't noticed... Speading out Russia and China is a lot bigger than France, Italy...
The Soviets only occupied Outer Mongolia...and refused to leave for quite some time after 1945. The Soviets never invaded the whole of China...then again they occupied parts of Manchuria as the war was nearly over...Just as they didn't bother w/ the Japanese until right before the end and managed to steal several Japanese Islands that they've occupied ever since. Kiril me thinks is their name.
well that's not true, you need to go and revisit the battle list.
"Make the other bastard die for his (barbaric) country !" Gen. Patton
Yeah Russia saved China from the brutal Japs and turned them over to an even more brutal Mao. What some 70 million dead Chinese at the hands of their home grown communists? The number dwarfs what the Japs did to them.
<p>We value our servicemen .... we value life .... that's what the war was all about .... and we played the Germans and the Russians brilliantly .... and deserve all the credit we receive .... fight smarter .... thank God you weren't in command .... asswipe !</p>
ohhh that's rich... well I will watch as AIPAC puppets marches you into war with Iran - and with Russia's, China's help... they will do the old meat grinder on you... If you think Vlad is smart now, wait till the meat grinder comes...
And did they explain why US didn't win in Vietnam, Korea, or against Taliban, yet think they can fight a real war... still waiting on that one...don't forget to send your donation to Ted Cruz and the other morons...
Nation building is a Progressive ideological construct...making the world safe for democracy. It didn't start w/ Richard Pearl and Wofeiwiz (sp). It began in the US in the late 1880's and became a national imperative with TR, then Wilson, FDR, LBJ and so forth.
nation building?? ha! I know what you are now...
so you send an army for nation bldg... how did it turn out in Iraq?
How did you infer my sentiments from me simply positing a historical fact? Isn't "making the world safe for democracy" (W. Wilson) another name for nation building foreign policy theory in support of post WWII American intervention?
haha... you are funny... world war 2 was to get power.... ever notice what the world reserve currency is??
War in Europe is great... for USA
you value your servicemen??? like the 200,000 who died waiting for VA treatment in the past 8 years, like all those suckers who went to Iraq and Afganistan for Israel?? and the next ones that will get sucked into war with Iran? you sound insane...
WOW, 200,000 dead in eight years...waiting.
Talk about pulling crap out of your ass! We only lost 4811 in total from the Iraq war, and 200,000 died while waiting in line.
Well I can understand because I have felt that way standing in line at the DMV before.
Yes... it illusion of victory, just like the U.S. stealing Germany's rightful victory in WWI.
Tell that to all the GI's who were fighting in Sicily or getting their heads blown off at Anzio. Ast the Russians how they would have gotten their troops and supplies to the front without all the trucks from Detroit MI and tires from Aacron OH. Yeah the T34 was a great tank but fully 1/3 of the Soviet tanks were US built Shermans and a quarter of their airfore were flying American and British built planes. Without them its most likely that the Eastern front would have ground to a stalemate at best.
"Dropping "The Bomb" On Hiroshima And Nagasaki Was Never Justified"
To Naji Dahi:
It is mighty brave of you to make such an assertion when you were not in President Truman's position and facing that situation yourself...
Nice how victors write the history.. After US loses WW3 it will be written this evil nation went around causing all kinds of wars, killing millions in the middle east, creating ISIS, etc,,, all the evil of US will be written by the BRICS nations for the next 100 years...
Stop exaggerating the ME casualties caused by US intervention. Nothing even remotely comparable to VietNam.
2 million since 911
Mostly in Iraq I presume and may I inquire as to the source? I can guess: CodePink, MoveOn.org, ANSWER, and Noam Chomski and globalreseach.com, and Gordon Duffy of VeternsToday, Counterpunch ect ad naseum? Sorry for the abbreviated list.
Speaking of the BRICS, just read how Brazil's economy is imploding so profoundly that even HSBC has sold it's huge stake in a Brazilian bank totaling some 8 billion. South Africa taters, murder capital of the World, Russia's Gazprom shriveling on the vine, China, well China, waiting for the social explosion following their economic implosion. Hey, shit is going to swamp us all who aren't members of the respective Oligarchies. There are NO good guy governments, just some are worse, and some will be predictably far far worse gov'ts. We'll see how this fascist-socialist cabal deals with us.
yes... economies are bad.. as in US... even better time to mobilize for war... don't you know how it works?
Can I stop it? No, I don't think that I can lead a nation against the Gov't. Can I refuse to assist? Absolutely, but that also applies to Russians, Germans, English, Chinese ect.
We debated this LIBERAL bullshite in the 60's! Fukem! We won! They started it and we finished it! Any of you bleeders know any POW's of the Japs? I do and they were NOT NICE! (Politically correct). The Japanese needed to KNOW that we could obliterate them unless they surrendered " unconditionally"! When will the LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS let it rest? BTW, IT WAS A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT!
Yeah but you seem to hide or forget that Truman was a Crypto-Jew, NWO ZOG satanist of the Tulmud. Joooo lover? ;)
And he was from Missouri, so there's that too.
Do we have to defend our heroic, glorious victory over evil .... every fucking year .... to every fucking nutwad .... they never ask the Russians to defend their victory !
Nikkei is pegged at highs. Now that is funny shit!
Still more than 30% off its 1980's top. Factoring inflation since then, the Nikkei is maybe half the value is was in the 1980's.
Naji Dahi
is a worthless coward cunt who has the balls to write this textual shit only because he did not have to go through the hell of subduing fascist japan by conventional means, eg landing on Iwo Jima and Okinowa.
If I had the power, I would gather up all you socialist collectivist blindly-pacifist vermin scum into one place and nuke the bunch of you.
Damn, suddenly I like you.
I hope you aren't too offended.
Quote: who asserted that the bombing saved six million lives—
Why does that number keep popping up so frequently? Anone would think that there was pattern of some sort with the motive of imprinting that number into people's minds...
the old 6 million joke..
You know what - fuck Japan in WWII - they attacked the US and brought it on. War = win, not pansy ass how can we kind of win while not doing too much damage crap. They had no problem being super brutal - war is about winners not hindight rethinking. You do what is necesary to eliminate the risk to your population. Japan in no way would have surrendered -- and I am certain they would have pulled another Pearl Harbor given the chance OR WORSE.
This is the reason why all wars since WWII are crap - PC idiots "decide" what type of war to fight. In the history of the world, war is brutal - its horrible. As soon as you tame it down it becomes palatable to the populous. It becomes OK and the status quo rather than something to avoid at all costs or only as a last resort.
It ends up with endless wars that never end. Hence where we are at now.
I know my Howard Zinn revisionism...US provoked the Imperial Japanese Empire by its embargo on pig iron and petroleum product exports to said true native culture of indigenous aborigines.
For those who interject that their Father, Uncle, Stepdad, etc. fought in some capacity against Japan which is supposed to lend credence to their point of view which in most cases has been handed down to them by the aforementioned Father, Uncle, Stepdad I would say that then..WWII is no different than now...Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Ukraine etc. They were fighting bankers wars, with public opinion provoked by acts of terror against our own population such as Spanish American War-USS Maine, Havana Harbor, sinking of the Lusitania passenger ship which brought the US into Europe's war which was ending and note, Lusitania was carrying arms to Great Britain, the attack on Pearl Harbor which was engineered by US oil embargo on Japan and was known to be planned weeks ahead of the actual attack without giving warning to the US Hawaiian command, 911 and the circumstances that followed revealing the US air command ordered to stand down as the planes (or drones/missiles/internal demolition) took place in order to justify war and control the oil producing regions of the world. These games have been played against the civilian populations as far back as the Roman Empire. Today's vet (or yesterday's) has accomplished nothing for adding his/her efforts fighting for democracy and freedom. It was not democracy, freedom or any damned thing else but to enrich the already unfathomable rich, their cronies, the MIC and especially a tribe in the Middle East. End of Story!! Today's adds on radio enticing young people to join the military to help keep the world free is the deepest pile of bovine excrement ever manipulated. Then as now, people believed the story line, got their asses shot off because the were too stupid to not look behind the curtain.
Too simplistic
Damn it.
I wrote a long reply since I studied this subject heavily in college and fucking Flash because of a fucking popup ad crashed my browser.
I don't feel like retyping everything.
Dropping the bombs was justified. Hirohito himself knew dropping the bombs were justified. We had Japanese soldiers who came to our class who said it was justified. We actually dropped the bomb to save more Japanese than allied soldiers. Estimates were the Japanese would suffer casualties as high as 10:1. The real estimate of US casualties was around 140k to take Japan.
Even if Hirohito surrendered, the top Japanese generals would not have accepted it and continued the war. Going so far as attempting a coup. One general almost succeeded even with the bombs dropping and Hirohito announcing the surrender.
We did drop the bombs to test their effectiveness. We did drop them to intimidate the Soviets because fucking FDR promised Stalin that he could share Asia and have part of Japan.
The Cold War started the day we dropped The Bomb and Truman told the Soviets to go fuck themselves. We needed to demonstrate we could turn Moscow to rubble without suffering the horrific casualties of invading Russia.
What we should have done was drop the first bomb on Moscow and said Tokyo was next.
Lol you forgot to add that russia would have used the equivalent on your cuntland. muritard
US knew attack on Pearl Hbr was coming, it was even headline news in the US three days before... it was just an excuse to rally the people... just like the lies you hear about Iran today.
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/pearl-harbor-a-successf...
it's hard to accept you were lied to all of your life... but easier when you accept it.. just like the lies that a US dollar is money...
Almost as difficult as believing that Charleton Heston is actually a Siamese cat.
But I like cats and am just messing with you.
Japan was warned....asked to surrender... and they refused
Then the first bomb was dropped..
Japan was warned again......nothing'then the second bomb was dropped.
Perhaps the bombs could have been dropped ...in low populatiln areas...to display their strength to encourage surrender...
The second one could have been avoided.
that's what they told you
August 5th, 1945
United States: Massive naval flotillas, massive squadrons of heavy bombers, and *nuclear weapons*
Japan: No navy, no airforce, *sticks and stones*
Don't try to tell me it was necessary to nuke an already destroyed, starving nation with *no remaining offensive capabilities*.
Yes it was .... 4,000 Kamekaze attacks .... were real .... it took 30 days for them to agree to peace talks .... oh, you wanted to blow the top of Fujiama .... as a demonstration of our seriousness !
Would you have the courage to drop the bomb .... probably not .... and how many more would have died .... on all sides .... and do you suppose our enemies would have used the bomb .... if they had finished theirs .... yes, they were working feverishly on bombs !
No MOAR prewar bukkaki videos? The horror....
Two additional weeks of US firebombing raids against Japan would have killed far more Japanese than Fat Man and Little Boy.
The US ordered a fresh supply of Purple Hearts to cover the anticipated caualties of Operations Olympic and Coronet-- the two planned invasions of the Japanese home islands. That supply was never used due to the atomic bombings.
But it did cover all the Purple Hearts issued for the Korean War.
All the Purple Hearts for the Vietnam War.
And a part of the Purple Hearts issued for the Gulf Wars.There was a Japanese peace party--but it was not in control of the government. Only after the SECOND atomic bombing did they gain sufficient adherents to quit the war. And needed the extraordinary and direct intervention of the Emperor to achieve it. But there were still diehards who intended to fight on.
The US and its allies were in complete control of the seas and air and could have simply blockaded Japan into surrender at very little cost to the Allies, but it would have inflicted millions of starvation casualties on Japanese civilians and no doubt led to the execution of tens of thousands o Allied POWs and cvilian internees as well.
The major loser from the atomic attacks were Russian draftees. The USSR was still at peace with Japan right up to the reception of news about Hiroshima. They immediately declared war and invaded Manchuria in order to seize what they could before Japan surrendered. Otherwise, they might have had zero casualties in the Pacific.
But the real issue is whether or not the US was obliged to show any mercy to an enemy who vowed to fight on, was launching endless suicide attacks against its foes, and had waged one of the most ruthless, barbaric, and dismissive of international law wars the world has ever seen.
At the point where the enemy was obviously beaten but refusing to admit it, the responsibility for the further effusion of blood does not rest with the incipient victor but with the loser who refuses to quit. At this point in the war, Japanese resistance was so feeble that the US had begun announcing one day in advance which Japanese city would be bombed on the following raid. Since no Japanese fighter or anti-aircraft gun could even reach the high-flying B-29s, the government of Japan was completely unable to defend its people from utter annihilation. Even this humane and yet also crushing psychological blow was no enough to induce Japan to quit.
US responsibility at that point was not to spare Japanese lives (Japan could have quit at any time) but to spare the lives of its own men. If these attacks saved even one single Allied life, they should be considered to be wise military policy.
Japan was completely defenceless ven against the means already being used-- yet still tried to haggle for terms at the price of hundreds of thousands of deaths to its own people.
Again, Japan was fishing around for modification of the terms of surrender on offer (unconditionl surrender) by holding the valuable lives of Allied servicemen hostage to the prospect of a bloody invasion of the Home Islands. They were, in effect, holding a gun to GI Joe's head and hoped to trade 10 Japanese lives for 1 American one until the Allies had enough and agreed to terms. This had, in fact, been settled Japanese national policy since the fall of Tojo and his replacement by Koiso in July of 1944-- more than a year prior to Hiroshima. The horrific campaigns in the Philippines, Iwo Jima and Okinawa were all waged with the concept of maximizing Allied casualties even though actual victory was acknowledged to be impossible.
The idea that any Allied government would negotiate with the Japaese warlords after that nation's record before and during the war is simply imaginary. Yet, oddly enough,the atomic bombs were in themselves a sufficient exhibition of retribution that Truman was in fact able to arrange a Japanese surrender on terms that would otherwise have been political suicide. Japan was allowed to maintain its Emperor as an unwritten side agreement to its formal unconditional submission. The Allies would have never agreed to such a modification after such a long and devastating war that brought the Axis very close to victory.
Largely after the loss of the Marianas in June of 1944, and certainly after the complete destruction of the Imperial Japanese Navy at Leyte Gulf in October of 1944, the defeat opf Japan was only a matter of time. Any government which continues to throw away the lives and property of its people under those conditions is the real villain of the drama. The United States owes Japan zero. One last time, they could have quit any time they wanted to. But they wanted to spare their Bushido "honor" from the shame of surrender far more than they wanted to spare their citizens the carnage that followed. The bombs convinced the Emperor, who rose to the occasion and overrode the "honorable death" crowd that was running the government. Without the bombs, they would never have quit. You guys have plenty of experieince with governments who want what they want far more than giving you what you want. Militarized Japan was even worse.
Sorry for the extended rant. People should dig out a copy of General MacArthur's speech given at the surrender ceremony. War has become too terrible, he warned. "We have had our last chance."
hey stop cut and paste books on here....
Don't spoil a good fairytale with the facts.
According to the Koolaid drinkers, it was necessary to nuke an already destroyed, starving island nation with no petroleum and no remaning offensive capabilities (because of a pending invasion that was itself utterly unnecessary)
Curtis LeMay had already firebombed about every other major city. Result for Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have been about the same number of deaths either way. Atom Bomb or Fire Bombs. There would have been no surrender in August without the atom bombs, and the Japanese would have killed all the U.S. POWs. The U.S.was exhausted. At least 10,000 US sailors would have died from Kamikaze attacks alone. Monday morning quarterbacks are so tiresome.
"The USSR was still at peace with Japan right up to the reception of news about Hiroshima. They immediately declared war and invaded Manchuria in order to seize what they could before Japan surrendered."
KaBoom! Bam! Kabong!
Wrong your extended rant forgot to.mention that was russians who forced japan to surrender not bombs .
Here see this - your whole understanding of history is LIE!!!
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/pearl-harbor-a-successf...
Japanese wooden cities were being destroyed so effectively with incendiary, phosphorus or pressure bombs on cheap so there was no reason or point to use “frightening” new wonder weapon such as nuclear bomb.
The widely proliferated tale about the US plan to supposedly nuking Japanese city every other day (a bluff of US since there were no other bombs made at that time) that Japanese believed and surrender because of that threat is a pure fabrication.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just US military experiments (after first was nuclear bomb was detonated in new Mexico) to figure out effectiveness of killing civilians and structure of blast zone and in the same time political intimidation of Stalin after Potsdam conference did not break his intransigence about his expanding sphere of influence after the war in Europe.
But what’s most important, it was done to stop Soviet intensified offensive in the Far East after Japanese forces in Manchuria and Korea weakened or collapsed threatening western supported China and possible enabling Soviet landing on Hokkaido after they already landed on Japanese islands Kurils and Sakhalin. It was first salvo of WWIII.
It was realization of Japanese high command and Japan aristocratic elite that no saving face negotiations with USSR and US were possible and only then they decided to call upon God like Emperor Hirohito to declare end of the war never mentioning any defeat or surrendering to enemy.
Japanese command knew that their direct orders to lay arms would not be heeded and would results in assassination of the commanders who would try follow them hence there was a need for emperor speech on the radio. Tens o thousands officers/soldiers either rejected the call for end the fight and continued even several weeks even months after that or committed hara-kiri.
There were no targets of any military importance or economic importance in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. None. It was just a slaughter, murder of human beings wholesale. And Trumann had no idea what actually was dropped, since he was never told about the bomb while he was VP.
When Americans came to Hiroshima/Nagasaki they told authorities not to clean or move anything since they had to measure damage. There were thousands of dead and still dying in the streets that were left there after physical examinations to die (with no medical help at all from Americans) and even on the spot autopsies of the dead on the streets were performed and radioactive samples taken and mapped and pictures taken for the study. It was barbaric.
What was even more appalling was reaction of Americans for the death and destruction caused by the bomb and other weapons, praising it as war ender, something to celebrate. But it was a lie.
It was Soviets that made Japanese finally to end the resistance. Stalin just fulfilled his obligation from Yalta under insistence of US that already rejected full-scale invasion of Japanese mainland as a viable option. There were no serious invasion plans as propaganda wants us to believe.
Japan for decades is asking to return all those documents to Hiroshima museum but to no avail.
That was the American plan for Japan, to exterminate their nation, the plan that abruptly changed in 1948.
For more of Japan true story read:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/2015/02/20/japan-miracle-that-wa...
So your vote is the US should have continued with existing bombs creating firestorms in Japanese cities, for how long?
You think the dead Japanese (how many more) would be better off being burned to death in a firestorm rather than instantly vaporised by a nuke?
So the author thinks that the agressive country should hav e been spared but the GI's should have died??????!!!!!!
Hillary likes to re-invent history, too .... leftists live by lies .... then re-write history .... shameless bastards .... history should be sacred !
Lie, Cheat, and Steal; Always
Conventional bombing of Japanese cities killed a lot more Japanese than the two bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A lot more Japanese would have been killed in any invasion of Japan given the fanaticism of the Japanese armed forces and their willingness to sacrifice their own citizens in combat (Saipan, Okinawa.......). Let's not forget the Japanese started the war - not the Americans. The fact the Americans demonstrated they were prepared to use nuclear weapons no doubt served as a warning to Russia which might well have sought additional military gains in Europe at the end of WW2.
Zionists will lead USA to nuclear war... please see photos of Japan post bombing to see what your street will look like....
How sloppy is this article?
Just look up what Harry Truman's middle name was.
It was "S"
The S didn't stand for anything else. He was Harry S Truman.
So any scholar who uses Harry S.Truman already has one strike against them.
Oh, and Harry S Truman wasn't a "one-term President" either.
Kudos tarabel. Every year about this time we get this recycled load of BS. No one mentions Mac the US along with the rest of the world was financially exhausted. neither do they mention that the Soviets were readying to sweep down the Korean Peninsula, down Sakkalin island and invade Hokkaido. I hardly consider a Japanese professor allegedly teaching American history in a Japanese university an unbiased source. That the author uses him as his first and primary source calls the entire article into question. Shinto Buddhism with its philosophy of suicidal sacrifice to the God Emperor strikes me as no different than Islam. McArthur wisely prohibited its inclusion in the structures of the post war Japanese government. A lesson Bush II should have applied after the falls of the Taliban and Saddam.
Got Damn!
Yea0h and cerrainly it is not applicable to Todays religion of Talmund and zions. Post your ignorance somewhere else
the japs raped the chinese, used captured americans for biological experiments, and recently poisoned the pacific, real problem today, they wre not all killed off in 1945. they are terrible examples of human beings - easily misled and far too fanatical. a digusting culture without a conscience for their grotesque behavior to other human beings.
The current US Government maintains concentration camps, admits openly to using torture, and its Dear Leader brags about his kill list.
How is one mass murdering government different than any other?
Historical relativism, the intellectual bastardization by the Socialist.
When you make me make excuses for that headhunter in the WH, I really am Not liking you. Let's not employ relativism, it's dishonest.
Naji, we didn't ask for the 1940's Japanese to sneak attack Pearl Harbor. When they did, the proper payback was total annihilation of country. Fucking sneak attacks, killing and torture is real, clearly not fucking PC, you driveling piece of shit and the proper response was without question appropriate.
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/pearl-harbor-a-successf...
2. Proof - Google Japanese sub sunk by US before Pearl Harbor. The proof is that the sub was found.Yep the US is the world's terrorist.
So what? It was there as part of the larger operation. Do you honestly think the Japs mobilized their carrier fleet to avenge a single two man submarine? The area outside the mouth of Pearl Harbor was a posted exclusionary zone. Even American submarines did not submerge until well past it.
the US lies about WW2 are incredible... especially about the 'death camps' I have been to several and it's BS.... Dachu had two little ovens... for one body each.. zyclon B was for lice...no gas apparatus... there was no food even for the local populations to eat... lice and disease was rampant... even in north america japs were interned
you cannot learn REAL history from writings of the victors
more lies like Pearl Hbr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SEss5xocl4
Japanese Generals didn't care about their citizens or soldiers .... but, we were supposed to value them .... more than our own servicemen ?
this story isnt about the bomb...it is about the PUSSYfication of americans. particularly men. my grandfathers fought in both wars (WW1 and WW2). nearly every 'old' man i knew back when i was a kid was missing limbs from the war. the idea that those men gave up so much to listen to these whinning pussies today just turns my stomch. we deserve the firestorm thats coming. we need to clear all this shit out.....
Well you see, you are simply using anecdotes of questionable value while Omega has got hard facts gleaned form the internet and linked on his posts. Given the irrefutable proof he has presented, I think it only proper we all just take a nap now and let the rewards go to the victor. He who writes last, writes truth....right?
Pithy
We gave our people the best medical treatment we had .... that kept deaths down !
here's a good one , trust me you will like it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cFewUG3rSY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maY54MwUsu8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRPWLqc5T20
Why did they become so eager to drop the bomb in 45? You guys do know up until 1 Jan 44 less than 20% of the total war effort went to the Pacific? There was a complete lack of interest in it, but it was the perfect trigger to declare war on Germany. It got so bad the guys in the Philippines talked about fund raising to buy their own aircraft and weapons. Not a one bullet was delivered, they wouldn't even give them vital necessities such as malaria meds, but there was room in subs for taking gold out. The historical truth is Roosevelt was fixing to be defeated in the next race because he was ignoring the Pacific, he couldn't keep a news blackout forever, word had gotten out about the atrocities by 44 and they were forced to move. It was purely political.
Your knowledge of and tenor regarding US WWII history reflects your peasant roots in Belarus. Cabbage head.
I thought they did it for practice
The Japs sunk the Indianapolis .... a couple of days after delivery of bombs to Tinian island .... they almost got the bomb .... yes, there were Jap spies in the US .... all through the war .... and I don't use Jap derogatorily .... it's a term just like Gerries, Limey's, Russkies and Krauts .... I admire the Japanese people immensely .... and am proud of how we helped them .... once hostilities ended .... the Russians still have some unfinished business .... give Japan their islands back .... you have enough territory !
Why doesn't the author help Japan get her islands back from the land rich Russians ?
tarabel - Great analysis, thanks much.
It is crystal clear that dropping the first bomb was neccessary and saved many lives on both sides. I'll plead unconvinced on the 2d, but all must recognize that Truman was just a civilian, doing the best he could to save AMERICAN lives. That was his job! Japanese behaved in the most horrible way, at least as horrible as Nazi war crimes, against China, et al.
Even if the saving of American lives from an invasion was only 40,000.... REALLY, ONLY 40,000 ???
If there had been no bomb, we'd now likely be looing at another tyrant like Putin. USSR communists still control much of that government. In an ideal world, this need not have occured, but it seems Truman knew not to hope for the ideal. Japan started the war over a decade before WW2, & would not have surrendered. Any other view is truly delusional.
I am sceptical that Ike would not have agreed with what I wrote, but if so, he was wrong. A rare occurence.
IMPORTANT question for this century, is how to remove nukes from Putin's control, before he launches destruction on the entire region, including Russia, just for his personal power & crime families?
With that attitude it's a shame you're still alive. You obviously see bombing as a way to end a fight. So you have never been in a fight verbal or physical so you don't feel the need for alternate ways to war and ending war. You're just another liar in denial.
China will probably nuke the US anyways. Too many 'muricans still think Japan started against the US first. Back to your bread and circuses people. You DESERVE what's coming. Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it. Those people who won't study history are stupid animals not humans.
Japanese scientists put naked Russian soldiers in freezers and watched through portholes .... as they clung to each other ... as they froze to death !
Hell, Stalin did worse to millions of Russians and all the occupied "Republics" of the USSR.
Orthodox Putin .... is still fucking with Roman Catholic Ukrainians .... let's unite against Islam ?
The comment section is overrun by .gov trolls, hasbarats, and flag-humping morons whose understanding of WWII comes from the "History" Channel.
Were the bombs justified .... I say Hell yes .... we had two more in waiting .... left over from Germany .... they were smart enough to surrender !
As opposed to yours that came from some spineless communist college professor that you sucked up like a baby eating pablum.
The firebombing .... which started with the Doolittle raid .... was devastating .... so why didn't they surrender ?
I never want to see this pathetic subject raised again .... someone is hoping some have forgotten .... well, we haven't !
There is an unseemly arrogance in people passing judgment on their forebears of 70 years ago.
People who have not lived the experiences and societal stress of those who made the decisions, now, with what they claim is perfect hindsight uninfected by any personal bias, claim the moral authority to judge the actions of those who were subject to "the fog of war" while having seen hundreds of thousands of their own people and their allies killed, tortured and destroyed by their enemies at the time.
Dahi and his supporters certainly qualify as moral midgets.
Well said. The Japs tortured prisoners and generally fought to the death or comitted suicide if death was certain. The emperor's propaganda machine was so incredibly effective that Jap civilians would hurl themselves off of cliffs rather than be "raped and tortured to death by the US soldiers". These aren't your run-of-the-mill Iraqi soldiers who really don't give two shits and will surrender when their officer looks the other way. The Japs had no interest in surrender. They were basically armed fanatics. Good luck taking the mainland ..
Yeah but if the Americans hadn't cornered them, they wouldn't have jumped to their death. Really it was voluntary manslaughter on a mass scale committed by the US. Might even be a crime against humanity. Truth commission now or take it to the Hague.
don't tell me that I need a sarc tag.
here's another good one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXA-enq65ng
Good night, Smegma_Man .... same time next year ?
Next year .... let's prepare for the America haters .... and really give it to them ?
GLAD to see you take on this "untouchable issue".
There are many fallacies about what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Let me mention a couple.
FIRST, many Americans believe that if the A-Bombs were not dropped, then the casulaties amongst US troops would have been 1 milllion. But NOT TRUE. The official estimate was 40,000 dead and 200,000 injured. I agree that those are still big numbers, but we are not talking one million dead.
SECOND, those cities were not just "hated Japanese" citizens. True, WW2 had intense hatred. And some of those feelings had a good basis. BUT for example, Nagasaki was the home of the Catholics in Japan. Catholicism had its roots in Nagasaki. Ironically, many Catholics were tortured and killed in Nagasaki in past centuries, by zealous Japanese Govermnets who saw the resistance (ideological) as unpatriotic. WHEN the A-Bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, 80,000 Catholics were instantly vaporized (or burned).
THINGS are never what they seem.
Nagasaki was the southernmost credible target .... probably safer for our pilots and the mission .... sometimes things are simply explained .... I'm sorry about the Catholics .... we could sure use them against Islam !
Newsflash: the government lies. There are the real reasons for why things are done. And then there are the reasons given to the lower orders via the government's propaganda organs, e.g., the state-run media, government schools, etc. The great mass of people being weak-minded children, lap it up and ask for seconds. The truth is too upsetting.
My father was a pilot in the Pacific theater and would certainly have been involved in any invasion of Japan. Had he been killed, well, I wouldn't here. So fuck all you who nip loving faggots who have me dead before I was even born.
Hell, if they're really so heartbroken over dropping the bombs, they should be first in line to surrender whatever land and personal effects they own to their closest "native" neighbor.
My grandfather spent WWII floating around the Pacific on a battleship. Who cares? As if that makes a bit of difference as to the truth of things.
Fuck you and your father. He raised an overly-emotional idiot for a son who can't tell government lies from his own ass.
Uncalled for
My father was a Marine forward air reconnaisance specialist in the Pacific. I too would not exist if the bombs weren't dropped. Not sure you pacificsts are nip lovers, but you sure are stupid.
My father was an amphibious officer and had already received his orders to sail north from the Philippines to staging areas at Okinawa when news of the bomb arrived. His survival and that of tens of thousands of others were at peril.
Neither did the Japanese cruelty end with the surrender. My uncle, my father's older brother, was a fighter pilot and was awarded the DFC for locating and then leading in supply drops to POW camps that the Japs had abandoned leaving the prisoners to starve.
The Japanese General staff knew the bombs were coming .... they coldy decided to wait and see .... how much damage they did .... even then they took thirty days to agree .... to peace talks !!!
The Japanese General staff knew the bombs were coming .... they coldy decided to wait and see .... how much damage they did .... even then they took thirty days to agree .... to peace talks !!!
Elements of the Imperial Military even planned a coup against the Emperor during those days after Nagaski.
Bullshit apologist article.
Emperor Hirohito mentioned specifically in his Aug 15th, 1945 surrender speech that the enemy had begun to employ "a new and most cruel bomb that would take many innocent lives". It did not matter what our people thought. What mattered most is we got into Hirohito's head enough to force him to bring about a surrender. He knew where there was 2, there would soon be many more.
Sons a bitches should have never bombed Pearl Harbor. They started it and we finished it. If you don't like what I say, go read about Unit 731 and then come back here.
The most despicable policy that the US Gov't enacted during the whole of WWII was to make common cause with the other unfathomable monster, Stalin. My enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, but not to the Democratic Party. FDR and the DemProgs always made excuses, and many in fact adored Stalin and the Communists. That policy was the gravest moral failure of modern US History. The second most grave moral failure was ceding tens of millions of Eastern Europeans to Soviet tyranny for another 50 years.
One other minor point about the terms that Japan was holding out for rather than just give up. Here is what they were thinking after the bombing of Hiroshima.
Frm Wikipedia: (Yeah, I know but it's late and I'm in a hurry)
Truman then warned Japan: "If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill of which they are already well aware."
The Japanese government did not react. Emperor Hirohito, the government, and the war council considered four conditions for surrender: the preservation of the kokutai (Imperial institution and national polity), assumption by the Imperial Headquarters of responsibility for disarmament and demobilization, no occupation of the Japanese Home Islands, Korea, or Formosa, and delegation of the punishment of war criminals to the Japanese government.
Those were THEIR terms AFTER the first bombing.
A provocation was their position so devoid of seriousness...
The US dropped notices in Hiroshima and Nagasaki days before they dropped the bombs. The Japanese army moved as many POWs as they could into Hiroshima and Nagasaki. they didn't do nothing.
You are quoting from the Big Lebowski.
I am paraphrasing the 1946 Hiroshima/Nagasaki study.
Now declassified info shows US codebreakers knew Japan was only months away from testing their own first nuke, at a testing ground in the northern part of Korea.
The only thng Russia did after declaring war on Japan on August 6, after Hiroshima, was to invade the northern peninsula of Korea and seize this research site. Japan lost the race to build the bomb.
The plan to use the bomb was a fast track program. DuPont's Project X managed the Manhattan Project to produce the bomb in three years, from Einstein's letter to Roosevelt being acted on to Trinity in New Mexico. Trinity was set off in mid-July and three weeks later, Japan was nuked twice.
Russian declaration of war on Japan to seize as much territories from Japan played a major role in the rational to nuke Japan.
The Japanese were, as the NAZIs were, terrified of the Russians and the Nukes were introduced to foil Russian ambition on Japan in the last stage of the war.
No one ever talks about the Russian annilating the German Sixth Army and was advancing over large areas of Manturia as we used the nukes.
Japan feared Russia and surrendered, not to avoid American invasion, to avoid Russian occupation. America is so overated.
Operation Market Garden was actually stalled so to give Martin Bormann time to send German assets an patents to nutreul contries.
Can't wait to read Bormann's memoirs.
The US Government has always been monstrous. Nobody should be surprised by any of these atrocities committed by its acolytes.
My Dad threw rocks at the German soldiers. They didn't shoot him.
Once again we see the display of poorly educated children trying to judge the decisions of the past based on leftist claptrap, revisionist history. Sometimes I'm glad my father, his brothers, their shipmates and oh so many others aren't here to see such shameful displays.
The use of the term "revisionist history" as a pejorative is one of the bigger tells that you are dealing with another victim of the government school and media system. As if the government's version of history should never be critically examined.
You've been lied to your entire life by the government and simply aren't bright enough to realize it.
Any you clearly don't know shit from shinola about WWII. I got much of my history from meeting and knowing people who experienced it. From my father who was an an LCT skipper in the Phillipines, from my uncle who was a fighter jock who was part of the first American Navy squadron to fly out of Henderson Field on Guadalcanal, from my French teacher in high school who was a survivor of the Battan Death March, from one of my algebra teachers who fought at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, From my father in law who made five trips to the beaches at Normandy carrying Canadian troops ashore, from a cousin who was horribly wounded at Pelalu.
You see dick weed, that's called first person history, as opposed to the agenda driven claptrap you were spoon fed by some communist asshole college professor who couldn't ever hold down a real job and would run away like a little girl if you so much as threatened to punch him in the nose. People like you make me want to puke, I only regret I can't do it in your face.
Can't agree with this article at all. The bottom line is this: You attack the United States of America, and all bets are off. Like the song says: This big dog will fight if you rattle his cage.
I think Japan got off damned easy.
The Japanese awoke that "sleeping giant" (after a bout of economic warfare by the US, the Dutch, and others).
My, oh, my, and I thought what the U.S. did to the Native Americans (Indians) was bad. Does this mean that the current "Stars & Stripes" flag needs to go away, too?