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Did The EPA Intentionally Poison Animas River To Secure SuperFund Money?
A week before The EPA disastrously leaked millions of gallons of toxic waste into The Animas River in Colorado, this letter to the editor was published in The Silverton Standard & The Miner local newspaper, authored by a retired geologist detailing verbatim, how EPA would foul the Animas River on purpose in order to secure superfund money...
"But make no mistake, within seven days, all of the 500gpm flow will return to Cememnt Creek. Contamination may actually increase... The "grand experiment" in my opinion will fail.
And guess what [EPA's] Mr. Hestmark will say then?
Gee, "Plan A" didn't work so I guess we will have to build a treat¬ment plant at a cost to taxpayers of $100 million to $500 million (who knows).
Reading between the lines, I believe that has been the EPA's plan all along"
Sound like something a government entity would do? Just ask Lois Lerner...
As we concluded previously,
The EPA actually has no concern for the environment, they just happen to use the environment as a cover story to create laws and gain an advantage for the companies that lobbied for exemptions to the agency’s regulations, and to collect money in fines. There are solutions outside the common government paradigm, and that is mainly the ability for individuals, not governments, to hold polluters personally and financially accountable.
h/t Stephen
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They wouldn't do that...how can you say that? That is like saying multiple steel buildings can magically fall from Jet fuel fire..........oh wait.
You forgot the one that fell 'in sympathy' with the Towers. See, buildings have 'feelings' too...
The Destroyers are running amok.
EPA destroys an ecosystem, to get more money? Naw, it must be a conspiracy theory. We all know that public servants work for us, LOL>
The Madness of the End Times are surely upon us.
I really thought I had seen/heard it all and I really couldn't be surprised anymore.
Unfortunately I was wrong.
W.T.F.
Regards,
Cooter
As a rule, I never indulge conspiracy theories. Occam's Razor states that a simple explanation is more likely to be true than a complicated explanation. Conspiracy theorists always jump to the most complicated conclusion, instead of accepting the most obvious one. This instance is no exception: isn't it more plausible that this was just an honest mistake? To my knowledge the Environmental Protection Agency has virtually no record of misconduct up until this incident, so I don't see how they could possibly be up to something so devious.
" isn't it more plausible that this was just an honest mistake?"
This isn't a mistake. This is incompetence and negligence. People at the EPA need to go to jail for this and pay fines out of their own pockets.
Also, please don't use "honest" to descibe anything .gov does.
To my knowledge the Environmental Protection Agency has virtually no record of misconduct up until this incident
What's this? An acknowledgement of wrong doing by the EPA from MDB? LMAO.
"Up until" many incidents that became fact we all thought .gov had our backs. Gov is headed down and is grabbing funding / money / taxation all it can as it evaporates into a heap of corruption that it is.
Check their email servers! Oh wait...
I love smart old codgers like the geologist who penned that letter. Plus he had enough balls to not only know what was going to go wrong, but to warn others and accurately predict the outcome, even from a political/money standpoint. My hat is off to you, Mr. Taylor, super geologist.
You truly did "nail it" with that one.
I'm no fan of EPA, in fact if I could I'd shut it down today and arrest some folks. I do not see a back issue of this paper for July 30?
http://www.silvertonstandard.com/back_issues.php
Heads up Tyler.
I don't see it either, but it appears at lot of 2015 is missing from that list. A search on "superfund" turns up tons of stuff.
http://www.silvertonstandard.com/news.php?search=superfund&catNum=
At work, no time to read, but will later tonight over a few beers.
Regards,
Cooter
million dollar bogus can expain the repeated faked moon landings perhaps? and the cooperation of all media and govts and the stomping of scientists and educators into obedience.
I called the Standard to verify, and according to the local who answered, "it's legit".
Yup... they are still standing by the story on their website. I guess the Obama administration hasn't called them yet to straighten things out. I sure as hell hope they don't pull a Bill Cooper or Barry Jennings number on the geologist...
"Yes, that letter to the editor about the EPA was published" ~ Silverton Standard
http://www.silvertonstandard.com/news.php?id=847
Our question of the day is,
what exactly is beyond their capabilities in regard to crisis creation to advance their ultimate agenda?
How far are they willng to go? We will watch this story to see if they can sucessfully bury it or if it will become necessary to destroy the geologist.
I really don't like being a conspiracy nut, but at some point it becomes raw denial to ignore it....everywhere.
The broken window fallacy on an epic scale. Keynes would be proud.
Does this seem like the actions of agency that is more concerned with people's health and protecting the environment or does this seem like the actions of an agency which has a primary goal of expanding its influence and insuring its future existence?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/12/indians-say-epa-trying-s...
False flag of sorts against gold and gold mining.
It will serve to increase public opposition to gold mining, increase .gov regulation of gold mining with associated decreased margins, decrease public opposition to a ban on private ownership of gold.
They'll now claim it is the barbarous and environment destroying relic.
To get Superfund status or defray .gov costs? Hooey. .Gov needs no permission to prosecute/sue and .gov creates their fiat out of thin air
An environmental catastrophe splashed across the west to further bankster's anti-gold propaganda.
"A mine named The Gold King poisons drinking water across the western US in the midst of an epic drought."
Sounds scripted by the most powerful there are.
They say it was published http://www.silvertonstandard.com/news.php?id=847
They're selling weed so everyone will think orange is the new blue
http://www.silvertonstandard.com/news.php?id=704
So why hasn't Tyler bothered going back a few more years in the Silverton Standard and provide more information on the root cause of this problem? Sunnyside Mining (now owned by Kinross) had a silver mine at a lower elevation called the American Tunnel that was discharging well over a thousand gallons a minute of drainage in the late 90's.
The American Tunnel mine had shut down in 1991, but Sunnyside was still responsible for, and was treating the drainage. They didn't care to do this forever, and it wasn't ever going to stop. They worked out a deal with the state to plug the mine's enterances with cement bulkheads, sealing the drainage back in the mine itself. In exchange for that 'solution', the consent decree they finagled cleared them of further responsibility for the mine. That was with the state. They don't want the site declared a SuperFund site because that would potentially make them liable to the federal government to clean up their mess - they couldn't hide behind the skirts of Colorado judges any more.
The 'fix' ended up being a colossal failure. After the American Tunnel filled up, Mines at higher elevations that had previously not drained at ALL eventually started spewing drainage from their portals (around 2004-5). The Red and Bonita portals drainage problem will be 'solved' by.... wait for it... plugging the portals with cement bulkheads. I think they have temporary ones now. Gold King - even further up - wasn't thought to be a problem (yet). Gold King had a temporary earthen bulkhead from earlier this year - they didn't have any idea that the drainage from all those mines had backed up to the Gold King as much as it had.
This entire disaster seems to have started with Sunnyside and Colorado picking a seriously strange solution to the American Tunnel drainage problem they were trying to hide rather than fix. Repeatedly plugging lower/downstream mines and backing up drainage to 'someone else's mine' in less touristy areas seem to be the game here. Eventually, Kinross and the State of Colorado will have shifted the problem to a bunch of small mine owners who can't bribe Colorado judges for wacky solutions and also have dragged the EPA in to pour FEDERAL tax dollars in to the state to fix the problem they caused.
While the EPA's accident was unfortunate, their solution (under ideal conditions) would be a failure: you can't keep plugging mines and backing up millions of gallons of drainage and hope it magially filters out clean(er) through fissures somewhere else. NONE OF THIS would have happened if Sunnyside continued to treat the thousand gallons a minute of drainage from American Tunnel in 2001. None of this would have happened if a proper treatment plant existed all along. None of this is going to be fixed by backing up tens of millions of gallons of drainage in the mountains and plugging whatever hole it eventually spews out of, or building a treatment plant somewhere back in the hills instead of at American Tunnel.
Interesting that this is now being spun as 'the EPA wants the business from Superfund' rather than the much simpler, obvious intent: Kinross and the State of Colorado covering up their 2001 'experiment' to make the American Tunnel drainage probem disappear.
Great info...
The el cheapo "Plug and Play" method of abandoning former minesites should never have been sanctioned. Since most of the hard rock gold and silver produced comes from these sulphide deposits that usually contain toxic heavy metals that are easily dissolved by acidic waters... well... it might be a wise idea to fix this problems before gold hits $10,000/oz.
That and the complete dissappearance of salmon from gold bearing rivers and streams will be major problems going forward when fiat takes the big dirtnap...
Which is another odd situation. Silverton was a pretty prosperous mining community back in the day - good, well-paying jobs by any standards. Now, Silverton is half deserted and the few hundred hold-outs have been reduced to crappy serivce jobs in the tourist industry - only in season, of course. If gold does go to 10,000/oz., there's a good chance that mining (and the good-paying jobs it creates) would return to the area. If they declare the Cement Creek area a Superfund site, then forget it - no mining company will touch the place.
So the residents of Silverton and that region of Colorado have a huge stake in this, too. While they want the mine drainage problems fixed, they're terrified of the federal government showing up 'to help'. The people in Silverton are painfully aware of the problems left by old mining companies, but there's a certain amount of tolerance one would have if it meant a 50-year-old guy with a family has a $75,000/yr full-time heavy-equipment operator job rather than working three part-time, no-benefit, minimum-wage jobs renting kayaks, selling tacos and bartending.
This is so fucked. Engineers are smart enough to figure out all these problems today. Mining's environmental impacts can be minimized by responsible mining - we can't just stop all mining in the U.S. and it's not necessary. But between cheap-assed miners, corrupt politicians and government regulators, why even bother - it will never happen. Easier to declare it a Superfund site for the taxpayer bux, kick out the tourists, depopulate the rest of Silverton, seize their land and ship crates of EBT cards to the hold-outs. That's the new American way.
The only 'mining' America is willing to invest in today is taxpayer mining - there is an endless stream of resources and no clean-up costs. Until everyone is on EBT and the government scratches it's head and wonders why there are no working people or taxpayers left in the U.S.
Hard to believe shaved apes can't boil water, dig a rock out of the ground or get from point A to point B today without killing everyone on the planet. What the hell are you people thinking?
Well, declaring it SUPERFUND is the only way the EPA could do the work and then have a legal platform to sue Kinross into paying for the cleanup.
That said, THANK YOU for the great two posts above. Here's a very solid article from 2005 that further delineates everything you're talking about...
http://www.westword.com/news/what-lies-beneath-5086257
"At the heart of the dispute is a deal hammered out a decade ago between the Sunnyside Gold Corporation and the state's Water Quality Control Division (WQCD), part of the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment, to settle a Denver court case. At one point the largest employer in San Juan County, Sunnyside stopped mining in 1991 and then spent millions cleaning up its site and treating the toxic water that flowed from its mine. The court settlement allowed the company to seal up the mine, installing bulkheads at the portals and flooding its workings, in exchange for undertaking other projects to improve water quality in the Animas basin."
Thanks, demi - great article. Never knew about all the other soap-opera regarding the situation. Incidentally, it took me maybe a half-hour on Google to dig up that back story on the mines. Plenty of orange river pictures on the MSM, but they apparently don't have access to Google. ZH scoops the knuckle-dragging stenographers again!
I had often mused about bumming around Colorado and looking for an old gold mine to work in my retirement. If anything, that article has completely cured me of any such insane fantasies. I think I'll just stop by the mining museum in Silverton if I'm ever out that way. Maybe rent a kayak, pick up a taco and have a beer at the local watering hole - so some local guy can buy his kids new shoes.
Paveway re. your retirement gold mining dream. Here's another way w/o the liabilties. Get a mule, a tent, some scuba gear, a 45, a one or two man dredge and get up into a place like The Trinity Alps.
Wow - beautiful.
Just what I would want to see if I was up there in the pristine wilderness on a relaxing backpacking trip - some pissed-off, smelly unshaven geezer swearing and banging on his noisy dredge and waving around a .45 threatening to shoot it if it doesn't start working. The water in Colorado is ice cold, so same there I imagine. I'm sure you would need a dry suit. Still, it would be fun to do for the hell of it. It's good for the soul to be an idiot every so often, especially if yer talkin' tax-free gold! No... I would claim it on my taxes - I swear.
On second thought, it might be easier and more profitable to just bring a .45 and ambush any other idiots up there for their gold hauls.
I pay attention to your comments, Paveway. You seem to have an inside track.
Yeah - Google and a crack pipe. Brain stem optional.
as long as TPTB can keep reaping future dollars via printing debt into their pockets today.. that is the only place they care to farm... whether or not the taxpayers ever pay the tab they have already eaten their dinners
"...The Red and Bonita portals drainage problem will be 'solved' by.... wait for it... plugging the portals with cement bulkheads..."
This is consistent with the geologist's (Dave Farmington) letter to the editor comments directed at these permanent plugs. The portals do have temporary plugs right now with drains. The EPA's contractor was checking on the Gold King plug in preparation for the permanent bulkheads being placed in the Red and Bonita portals in the next few months. This is something I would expect the EPA to have done. They can't just throw a temp plug in Gold King and ignore it while they screw around with pouring the Red and Bonita mine bulkheads.
I don't think Mr. Farmington is aware of the hydraulic connection between the American Tunnel and all the other mines or surely he would have commented on the identical issue (drainage backing up) as the result of plugging THAT mine years ago. The drainage problem was twice as bad at American Tunnel as the flow he cited for the Red and Bonita drainage.
The mere idea of plugging a mine to stop drainage is not totally unsound, as long as you're sure that it's not just going to flow through connections to other mines or out through fissures. It does work in some instances. Sometimes the engineers are not sure. It's worth a try as long as you have a contingency plan.
The point in this case is that everyone who should have known seemed to know by 2005 that the American Tunnel plug was simply back-flooding other mines and wasn't working. It's not like anyone just figured this out a month ago. Every party involved was moving forward with the additional plugging of Red and Bonita DESPITE the failure of the American Tunnel attempt and what must be tens of millions of gallons sitting in THAT mine right now. If they opened the American Tunnel and treated that water, it wouldn't be backing up into all the other mines.
The lame argument some are trying to make is that before the American Tunnel was there, the water table would have been much higher and drained out of the upper mines. Maybe that would have been the case, but who the fuck cares NOW? Treat the problem at the source today, not at the hypothetical souce as if the American Tunnel had never been mined.
Awesome as always, Paveway.
1. letters or comments from retired geologists should not be allowed in print.
you see what can happen.
this person is clearly trying to cause trouble.
2. the letter says "hallelujah."
this is a religious expression.
letters or comments making religious proclamations should not be allowed in print.
you see what can happen.
The whole thing points out one more reason I like The Don. He uses two words that are absolutely never heard in Gubmint: "You're fired!"
Releasing this information to the public before first clearing it with the EPA is clearly an act of environmental terrorism somehow.
I hope he has a good alibi for where he was that night...
i still maintain that managers didn't do their due dilgence before they dug (to see what lines were where) and quite possibily were 'playing' on the CATs. ive been in the excavating biz for so long...i see grown men oodle over running a tractor. coulda been a bunch of office guys on excavators and track loaders.
i really would like a diagram of what was hit and where (at what depth) to see if my premise holds water. what they have released leads me to believe there was a very shallow relief pond/trench exisitng near the mine. probably plowed through it without realizing what it was.
No. It has to be a conspiracy to get EPA Superfund site designation. /s. Keep up with the Faraday Cage dwellers comments, will ya!
Actually, as I commented earlier in this thread (below), this is a serious issue, best addressed by reference to Professor Sunstein's paper.
"We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help... but each instrument has a distinctive set of potential effects, or costs and benefits, and each will have a place under imaginable conditions. However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5)."
Chilling, that guy is evil smart
Gosh, all five answers start with "government" - which is the exact opposite of a real solution.
It was at the surface level. They were excavating horizontally back into an unconsildated dirt plug they'd placed there 10 months before, which created a reservoir of a size that they vastly understimated, and thanks to that underestimation, they unleashed the very reservoir they had created.
The dumb. It hurts.
"He believed the water to be only about 5 feet high behind the dirt, and he noticed water seeping from below the dirt in the tunnel of the abandoned mine.
After his team had cleared a 10-foot-tall hole in the tunnel, Griswold walked into it to check if the roof was safe. That’s when he noticed a small stream of water coming from the top of the dirt wall."
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20150806/NEWS01/150809720/Plans-to-...
Griswold?
Seriously????
Seeing the same same thing here. Looked up said individual but no links.
Maybe it could be available to subscribers only.
I just called them and asked about it. It's legit and the guy told me they're working on uploading it. Sorry for being suspicious of dirty tricks, I see ZH bashed as a conspiracy "blog" all the time.
You've just outdone almost every single "reporter" at the AP.
Kudos chunga!
How can this possibly happen? The gubmint was in charge. They're there to help.
You're Hired! You did some great work on the foreclosure mess too. Great job!
Here is a scan of the page it refers to:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2a4ac681935fb990e43310ea2d1536d55af...
Chunga,
I live in Durango and I can affirm that this is legit. Originally, there was a pic of the actual article that started circulating amongst us locals on Saturday. Here's a link to that:
http://stashpit.com/upload/big/2015/08/12/55cb51d20f79f.jpg
I called them to verify.
In the words of the local who answered, "it's legit".
edit - i think i misunderstood you
I'm no fan of the the EPA either; however, they did do one good thing; namely, EPA Phase II woodstoves.
Yeah, sure, they were trying to destroy using solid fuels (and thereby get everyone [back] on the grid), but inadvertantly, they caused manufacturers (at least the ones who survived) to create stoves that produce twice as much heat with half as much wood.
Now, if the manufacturers could just make them less modern/ugly ... .
The CAT stoves are way better than when they first came out but I'm reluctant to credit EPA for that. Still too pricey for me and I've got huge supply of hardwood.
I'm just about to replace mine with this one here...or a Jotul can't make up my mind.
http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-stoves/castleton
We had an old cast iron Bulldog in an old log type logging cabin 175 years old) years ago. It could handle 36 inch wood. At minus 30 it would do the job quite nicely. In the kitcen quarters we had a wood stove/oven setup and a gas refrigerator/freezer located outside. It was worked perfectly. Those were the days.
We had an old cast iron Bulldog in an old log type logging cabin 175 years old) years ago. It could handle 36 inch wood. At minus 30 it would do the job quite nicely. In the kitcen quarters we had a wood stove/oven/gas (propane) setup and a gas refrigerator/freezer located outside. It was worked perfectly. Those were the days.
After too many break ins and everything stolen, my father finally opted out of the 99 year lease. This was 40 years ago. Since then, the EPA in conjunction with the insurance industry have made it difficult if not impossible for many to have any wood stove in regions that have traditionally used wood heat safely as a primary energy source. Though I see all these kingdom properties popping up with mansions with at least 10 fireplaces on the premesis. Not only that but those individuals hired or donated to environmental organizations to prevent development around them. One of them got caught...
The web was scrubbed but I stand by this. research the name 'Brown' mentioned.
http://www.state.me.us/legis/opla/tradusesrpt.PDF
My wife and I have that exact stove, gets to hi 20's lo' 30's in no ca. mts , 1800 sq. ft. We have to open windows in winter it's burns so well.
It's right here..
http://www.silvertonstandard.com/news.php?id=847
If you read the letter in detail and take time to understand it the geologist did not believe the EPA was going to cause the level of destruction that occurred. He states the EPA is going to do something that will not work (and could contribute more contamination to the existing problem), then when it does not work use that as an excuse for the treatment plant. He did not say anything about the EPA doing anything that would dump millions of gallons of toxic water at once.
If the geologist's theory is true then even if the blow-out that occurred was not intentional it was still grossly negligent, as if the "fix" was just a formality to the EPA to get to the treatment plant then it is highly likely not enough due diligence was done by the EPA and the risk of the blow-out was improperly evaluated.
That would be known as a "win-win" in EPA circles.
"Let no crisis go to waste."
He said the mine would fill up, until the pressures caused it to blow out somewhere, then it would drain (with more contamination) and then go back to present flow rates.
Unless I misread.
Regards,
Cooter
I read something along the lines of: "The plug will initially appear to be working as the plugged water fills in other areas of the mine, but eventually the pressure will build to the point that the water will find its way out. When this happens the flow will return to the present rate, possibly with more contamination, and it will be clear that the fix did not work."
This is more like filling up a dam than seeing one fail.
The problem was there was apparently a high risk of a blow-out and I would bet that risk was not properly evaluated due to the political/economic side of this.
He may have just underestimated the extent of the “blowout”, but he apparently did call the shot ahead of time…
assuming that the article is indeed genuine.
But let's dump the incompetent fools anyway.
have ya'll noticed the preponderance of women in Obama's Admin troubled positions
And have y'all noticed the preponderant butchiness of said womyn? Shudder.
When you see women in positions of high power, it usually means no guy wanted the job.
He states the EPA is going to do something that will not work (and could contribute more contamination to the existing problem), then when it does not work use that as an excuse for the treatment plant.
So the EPA made it certain that they'd get the funding for the Treatment Plant, didn't they?
Now the question remains as to what corporation gets the contract which will be awarded for the constuction of that plant.
And then we will know who was paid off by whom to cause this nightmare.
It is always about the payola. EPA officials are amongst the most corruptable.
If enough people get pissed off about this watch for EPA to fling some magic substance like corexit in there so the poison shit just vanishes like deepwater horizon.
When do greenpeace type orgs how up and start raising hell?
They seem to be too busy...
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/court-stops-plans-colorado-coal-mine-clima...
on another note...
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/clinton-foundation-tied-to-uraniu...
And finally.. They (EPA) released more than just that.
Ranchers, farmers fear eco-terrorists after EPA releases private infohttp://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/17/ranchers-farmers-fear-eco-terrorist...
The Environmental Protection Agency has told farmers and ranchers it is sorry for handing private information about them over to environmental groups, but agriculture advocates who fear attacks from eco-terrorists say it's like closing the barn door after the horses escaped.
In response to Freedom of Information Requests, the federal agency released information on up to 100,000 agriculture industry workers, including their home address and phone numbers, GPS coordinates and even personal medical histories. The agency later acknowledged much of the information should never have been provided, and even asked the recipients to give it back.
“If someone is setting out to create mischief at these locations, basically the government gave them a road map,” Mace Thornton, spokesman for the American Farm Bureau Federation, which is participating in a joint lawsuit against the EPA, told FoxNews.com. “It is very clearly an unjustified intrusion into citizens’ private lives by the government. And it is a betrayal of trust.”
The EPA said it collected all the erroneous disclosures, released in July of 2012, and sent out new documents with sensitive personal information redacted, an EPA spokeswoman told FoxNews.com.
“ … EPA determined that some personal information that could have been protected under FOIA was inadvertently released,” agency spokeswoman Caroline Behringer said in a statement to FoxNews.com. “EPA redacted that information and asked the FOIA requesters to return the information. All requestors have returned the original data.”
The information covered farmers and ranchers from 29 states and was released to the Natural Resource Defense Council, The Pew Charitable Trust and EarthJustice. Although much of the data is available on public databases, the EPA redacted personal data in an amended release. Those groups have not been tied to illegal acts, but concerned agriculture advocates fear the information can be spread to dangerous militants.
A while ago I peeked at a popular blue team hangout to see the scuttlebutt, they shared a concern this was a staged plot to make EPA look bad and defund! This ZH story was mentioned as a "dubious" source.
It reminded me of the red teamers claiming Fukushima was a very minor incident overblown by "extremists" when it popped. Holy $hit man we're fucked! I can't wait to finish a few chores so I can drink beer. Lovey is still away (up near you) I'm bored stiff.
The initial contracts that result from this is one level of possible corruption that they intend to reap profits from, but is there more?
Is there a control potential related to this. Is there a benefit to contaminating the waters themselves, beyond the construction of a treatment plant?
http://earthfirstjournal.org/newswire/2015/07/06/portland-climate-action...
They blocked the tracks a day before the wreck happened in Canada. They were also responsible for vandalism in Maine prior to that.
http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/plub-creek-vandals-story-earth-first-...
I wasnt too far off:
Pladizow
Vote up! 1
Vote down! 0
Something in that spill was wanted in the water supply and a US Corp could not be convinced to take the fall for it!
crisis management
step one create crisis
step two manage crisis
Problem
Reaction
Solution
... AKA Totalitarian Tiptoe.
... AKA Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis.
Order out of chaos, baby. Thats just how they roll. This world is run by Sociopaths and professional liars.
We need to hire moar gubmint employees. That'll solve it!
Step three, start swindling.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/12/indians-say-epa-trying-swindle-them-mine-spill/
Although I acknowledge that there has been some temporary environmental damage caused by this accident, I don't believe that any EPA workers were personally responsible. Accidents like this often cannot be prevented, and we have to accept that from time to time this will happen in an industrialized society. Part of the problem is that we simply produce too much chemical waste on our overindustrialized, overpopulated planet.
Your trolling skills are pathetic
@MDB. Too funny. So arsenic and other heavy metals only cause temporary damage? Hahaha. No person at the EPA is responsible for an EPA funded and directed program? I suppose that would be because no government employee is ever really held accountable for any action or inaction ever taken while collecting a taxpayer funded paycheck. Let me guess, this is where we decide that all government programs and policys are a "success", except for the ones where...."we didn't see that coming".
I suspect the end times of Roman rule were flush with similar government successes and dewey eyed surprise at unintended consequences while the bread and circuses were delivered to the people.
just shut the fuck up
MDB - I know you're ZH's favorite concern troll (and a good one usually!), so this isn't an attempt to edumakate your ZH alter ego, but just for general info ... there is nothing remotely "industrialized" about the San Juan region of CO. In fact, most people go there to get away from what you describe, for reasons various and sundry. These aren't "chemical wastes" that were released - they're naturally occuring elements/metals/minerals in the mountains. Its rich mineral content was the reason the San Juans were bought, bit-by-bit, from the Ute tribe in the 19th century for mining concerns. The issue is that those tailings liberated many of those elements and concentrated them as the water level rose before *whatever* happened and the flood of concentrated ick was released into the Anamas. Pro Tip: oxygen will kill you in enough concentration.
MDB is a "Concern BOT Troll" guys
http://www.sott.net/article/294220-Government-propaganda-automated-bots-...
there is nothing remotely "industrialized" about the San Juan region of CO.
Well there WAS nothing remotely "industrialized" about the San Juan region of CO...before the need for construction of a Water Treatment facilty
As for your Pro Tip...The concentration of Oxygen in the atmosphere as it currently stands just serves to kill you slowly while keeping you alive. In a sense it rusts you from the inside out. Free Radicals...you know?
An increased Oxygen level just increases the rate of our impending death. Keep on breathing.
Progressive eugenics Code for, we need to kill some people!
Turn off your TV and get off your couch. Take a flight over the country. Have a look from 10,000 feet at the masses of people. You wont see them, unless you have a TV on the plane.
Remember the image of all the European leaders arm and arm Parading down a crowded street of cheering masses broadcasted by Media across the world? And then days later we get a wide shot where we learn they where actually on a mostly empty cordoned off street surrounded by Guards. It's so very easy to fool those who trust their Government and the press, MDB....
It's a made for TV Myth, Perpetrated by scum who see masses of dependents, cattle, sheep, needing to be thinned out - not individuals with God given rights to life and liberty!
We're surrounded in every direction by uninhabited wilderness. Most of which has been snatched up and placed off limits by the very same agencies who devise ways to crowed people into cities, keeping them controllable and dependent.
"" did-epa-intentionally-poison-animas-river-secure-superfund-money ""
Naw, Absolutely Just Cannot Be...
And LH Oswald Shot JFK...
Not incompetence or negligence but willful criminal intent. There's a difference.
Go to jail?
No one goes to jail for doing bad things. They get rewarded. Jeez....
yes, I wonder what the fine would have been for a private mining company if they had caused a similar disaster.
Doesn't the Animas drain in to Lake Powell then Lake Mead? haven't heard much mention of that. and with the levels being low, there is less dilution of all that arsenic than there would otherwise be.
All Hardrives Just Mysteriously Smoked At The epa...
You are hopelessly naive and will likely die in the coming Reset.
[This comment was meant for Million Dollar Bonus....not sure why it's not in threadline]
Your trolling adds nothing you dumb bitch. You're neither clever or funny. The fact you've been doing this for YEARS now, speaks to how mentally ill you are.
MDB_:
Honest mistake? You can judge a person's/entity's actions, but it is nearly impossible to judge their intent. How convenient...
If it was not intentional, I think we can all agree that it was extremely negligent. If this guy could predict it, why didn't the EPA geologists catch on? Doesn't seem like rocket science.
I'm with you MDB, incompetence is a more rational explaination in this case than conspiracy in this case.
Just another case of texting while excavating.
Happens all the time.
Occam's Razor states that if you have a govt agency filled with incompetent degenerates....
That agency is probably capable of any dirty criminal trick a deviant mind could cook up.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/epa-poop-hallway
I'll give you two guesses, and the first one don't count.
Cum on folks - of course they fucking did - global warming scam landing flat on it's face - typical tried and true nexus in the funding arena is create a mess that you'll be paid for cleaning up - 4x painting swaztikas on your dorm door at a Jewish prep school, like Harvard.
Or training and funding terrorists orgs like ISIS, or selling Iraq chemical weopon seed stock.
What ever worked before will always work again.
What planet do you live on?
EPA has been a phuck up since Reagan the Socialist created it.
Computer controlled engines and fuel injection cleaned up our air not the EPA.
Reagan gave us debt & invasion.
MDB ur back! or did i just happen to miss any comments of urs for a while. always fun to read ur trollish thoughts lol
Ocham's Razor? More like Crabtree's bludgeon
“”No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated"
I will meet you halfway, MDB. I do not think the EPA would blunder this large and this visibly. However, I DO think, like any government agency they will work the situation and their own blunder to their good.
Rule of government #2. All government failures are due to lack of power and money. Therefore, the solution to all government failures is MORE funding and power.
I do think the EPA would go for this.
So you're saying they never used drones to spy on farmers in hopes of finding fines?
They never sponsored a volunteer organization in order to quasi-legally spy on businesses?
Are you saying citizen suits have never, ever been used as a means of backdoor funding to eco-political groups?
Good thing my business is in regulatory reporting and compliance. Even if taxes collapse only the 'crazy' people at ZeroHedge would ever question the EPA's other ways of getting money.
This has nothing to do with drones or the police state. I am simply looking at this particular mistake they made. It is my best guess how it played out and will play out.
On the "fines" side, that is the primary purpose of cops. They are there to collect revenue for the State. In their spare time they might catch bad guys.
I work in a heavily regulate industry. Any time they need a few extra dollars and a good headline to sound like they are doing their jobs, fines iwll come your way. There are so many regulations that are a judgment call that it is virtually impossible to avoid them.
The most transparent administration ever. Indeed.
The most transparent administration never.
My problem with this arguement is the amount of intellegence it infers since we ARE talking about OUR government. Superfund clean up has been a scam for a long time though and it wouldn't surprise me that they would try, but getting money out of congress this close could be tricky.....
At this point, I put NOTHING past Obama's Criminal Cabal. Time for blood, bitches!
Agenda 21 on steroids. These fuckers are here setting fire to all of California too - many of the fires were found to be arson. Get ready for the push, people - these bastards have plans, and they don't include us.
EDIT - just saw this: "The river flows into New Mexico and Arizona where it eventually joins Lake Powell, a major source of drinking water for Las Vegas, San Diego, and Los Angeles."
Agenda 21 confirmation: move the people out of the west.
Agenda21 indeed , SoCal is the target and moar power for the EPA is a twofer.
ding ding. ck out the bay area one public meeting from a few years ago. Huge push back on the agenda. I never have thought id see that from san fran. it was heartwarming and inspiring.
Some points:
pop. going from 7 mill to 9 mill in the next couple decades. response, bullshit everybody is leaving, where is this growth coming from for the stack and pack housing and rails tax monster.
hey your data shows that all the money is going to trains and none for highways... wtf.
Oh and the guy walking around with his climate change hockey stick chart.... very funny those, what ever you want to call them.
split the groups up after initial meeting to divide and conquer.
I was wondering why I didn't see this plastered all over the news
If this had happened while a Republican was president, we'd never hear the end of it.
Rick Perry raises much-needed cash, gets heckled
http://tinyurl.com/pnotra7
Wouldnt doubt it..the EPA in its current form is just another tax collector.
The superfund is just a huge tax on the people....assigned by govt.
RIPS
"EPA in its current form"
I used to believe something like the EPA was needed. Govt. should protect people and personal property from harm if you are going to have it, EPA seems to fall in with that.
This is so outrageous and disgusting there are no words.
I am not someone who believes in capital punishment.
I am wrong, there are times crimes are so egregious, it must be done. Psychopaths understand nothing else, will not possibly be deterred by anything else. Serial killers are peachy human beings compared to this cabal of creeps.
Executions are actually not enough.
I prefer the form of protections in PB for my personal environment.
Public shame pain and death echoed through the community for decades might deter parasites.
RIPS
"Executions are actually not enough."
Woodchipper, then?
Only question is: Feet first, or head first?
For EPA, I vote "feet first"
Feet first, and controlled descent. Let all 17000 of them hear the screams and contemplate their fate, slowly.
Chipper may be to lenient.
RIPS
Unfortunately, I don't think a soul dissolution device exists yet. That's what is really needed here: a cease to exist in any form sentence.
Colonel Cooper: Evil Men
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”
Just about every .gov agency, any state or local organ, police department, heck every business of any shape and size is pretty much nothing more than another tax collector at this point.
Maybe the little building 'identified' as a larger building, so collapsed.
Are the mines in the area uranium mines?
That "a-ha" moment. To hide more of the Clintons' fun and games? Now that the DOJ and FBI have Canckles' server with TOP SECRET emails? I can hear her loyal sychophants screaming "But, but, the Koch Brothers......"
Serious upvote. Bravo, I think you are ON to something.
steel buildings can topple because of jet fuel. when the temperature gets hot enough, the steel softens. when that happens, the steel structure collapses because of buckling. the collapse of the Twin Towers was checked by experts in structural engineering. the events are consistent with knowledge of the behavior of steel and buildings. it was checked and verified.
Must be a shill because no one is that stupid
“Construction steel has an extremely high melting point of about 2,800° Fahrenheit (1535° Celsius).” “Kerosene-based jet fuel, paper, or the other combustibles normally found in the towers, however, cannot generate the heat required to melt steel,”
“Experts disagree that jet-fuel or paper could generate such heat. This is impossible, they say, because the maximum temperature that can be reached by hydrocarbons like jet-fuel, burning in air is 1520° F (825° C). Because the WTC fires were fuel rich (as evidenced by the thick black smoke) it is argued that they did not (even) reach this upper limit of 825° C.”
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/bollyn2.htm
btw.. demolition thermite can melt structural steel
http://physics911.net/thermite/
You're feeding the troll.
Steel is malleable at half its melt temp.,cherry red hot.Blacksmiths need a bellows to get even
a little to work on.Why the central reinforced conrete core was not still standing can't be
answered.That was taken out to remove any support for the freespan floors.
Core blown out, caller from inside tower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eSVsid7eKE
Excellent link 'core' - http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=14700
Those planes never...
Maybe you should dig a little deeper and not just look up the melting point of steel (and compare to melting point of iron),
but also find out about the change in carrying capacity of a steel beam with temperature increase!
Just you.
Bollocks.
I used to make structural steel for high rises and towers.
Show me one building anywhere ,antytime, that collapsed that way, pancakinto into its own footprint,
with zero resistance. Apart from a deomlitions of course.
I used to watch the controlled demo fails, where a charge didn't go off and the building didn't drop.
I giggled and thought they shoulda used jet fuel and office furniture.
pods
The hasbara seem to be much better co-ordinated than that today. Almost like
they get a heads up before these pieces come on..
Hope they get paid with 40 real pieces of silver,rather than paper ones.
What's really funny is that on the one hand they argue "it would take hundreds of people and thousands of charges, somebody would have noticed or talked," then they argue "regular office fires can do that."
The official story is a pile of shit.
I used to search far and wide for information to get to the truth. But the water was so muddied with space scalar weapons stuff that I stopped.
Something is not right with how it went down. From the puts on airlines, to how they collapsed, magic passports, to the cell phone calls from PA.
It is up to them to prove how it happened, and it better not smell like BS.
pods
We will never know exactly, I've seen the Langley boys tidy up loose ends in
their drug smuggling.Something like this, the boots on the ground were dead within hours.
Did you know that in the wake of the Warren Report, a new term was invented, to refer those bold enough to QUESTION GOVERNMENT EXPERTS? Yes, the term was called: conspiracy theorists.
There was a tremendous disinformation campaign after the JFK assassination, with the primary goal of doing as you said, muddying the waters. Dilution. Was it the Soviets? The Cubans? The Mob? Rogue CIA involvemen? Etc.
And they used the same clean-up protocol post-9/11.
FWIW, in professional forensic circles, the Warren Report is the most scrutinized forensic document of all time. The conclusion (according to my ballistics and forensic buddy) is that the report was actually generally correct, but a number of the details are wrong. FYI, I'm not implying anything about 9/11 here.
The information is now definitive on the demo of the 3 towers, but they have done one hell of a job muddying the waters, yes.
Let's add to the proven catagory: official story built on KSM torture (worthless) testimony, outline written by Zelikow before 9/11 commission started, foreknowledge of attack, informed trades, anthrax fraud inseperably connected to 9/11 (pull on that thread and the whole story fails), etc..
The WTC had a unique design, and it was destroyed in a unique way. Of course you have never seen one collapse that way.
When you look at the way it was built, that is actually the normal mode of uncontrolled collapse. The individual floors weren't a part of the superstructure of the building like with most buildings.
People really need to learn to see through deception. Discard the idiotic crap (hurr, mini-nukes! muh nano-thermite!), and instead latch on to the plausible (al-Qaeda was created by US and Israeli intelligence, and funded by Saudis, and they want to keep those connections under wraps).
Shame all three building were not designed the same way then.
7 was conventional construction, but fell the same way.
Blows a hole in your thesis.
Bollocks.
I have looked into construction plans of building 7 and the basic design is very similar to WTC twin towers. The detail if the floors were also built as truss decks unfortunately was not discernable from those plans, so that's a small unknown.
Nice to see a another lone soul is able to see past all the false trails!
How many buildings have been hit by jumbo jets filled with jet fuel with the outer skin design?
OK fuck face, let's build an exact replica of WTC1 and we'll fly a jet into the same spot with the same fuel and speed.
But before we do that let's all lay bets on what happens next.
Hint: Nothing, but some damage and fire which we saw.
What we won't see is a dissembled shattering of steel and dust -- ever.
I'll take that bet as many times as you want to place it.
I will take that bet too. Gotta read a comment that starts out "OK fuck face".