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The College Bubble 2.0

Tyler Durden's picture




 

On Monday, we got some color on Hillary Clinton’s $350 billion plan to make college more affordable.  As we recently noted, students and former students across the country owe more than $1.2 trillion in college loans - doled out by our government in the name of helping high school graduates further their education, and as Bill Ackman so eloquently put it earlier this year, "there’s no way they’re going to pay it back." But at this point, extra funding is backfiring. Half of young graduates are either unemployed or only working part-time, which is a startling sign that the jig is up. In conjunction with the poor economy, new technology, developing markets killing jobs, and the massive increase in applicants with degrees, the value of college degrees is drastically falling in the economy of today. College is in a bubble, and it is going to pop soon...

The following video should open a few more eyes to the startling crisis facing today's young adults and the American higher education system...

*  *  *

And as we recently noted, one hedge fund is attempting to take advantage of that, hoping for the next "Big Short."

These worries showed up earlier this year when Moody’s put billions in student loan-backed ABS on review for downgrade. Many of the deals in question are sponsored by loan servicer Navient, which was spun off from Sallie Mae in 2014. 

Now, one Boston-based hedge fund is building a short position on what it says is "runaway inflation in post-secondary education" by shorting the likes of Navient and other names tied to to the student loan bubble.

  Here’s Bloomberg with more:

FlowPoint Capital Partners, the $15 million hedge fund co-founded by Charles Trafton, is betting against companies such as student-loan servicer Navient Corp. to profit from what it calls a college bubble bursting in slow motion.

 

The Boston-based firm is building positions against stocks of textbook publishers, student lenders and real estate companies that focus on college housing, Trafton said in an interview. Changes in the more than $1 trillion student loan market could hurt companies such as Navient, Sallie Mae and Nelnet Inc., according to a July investor letter from the firm.

 

Businesses "levered to runaway inflation in post-secondary education are susceptible to growth and margin shocks," the firm wrote in the letter.

 

So there, ladies and gentlemen, is one way to trade the bubble if you believe expecting the nation's graduates to somehow fork over $1.2 trillion is unrealistic in a job market where landing a gig as "head bartender" is sometimes the best one can hope for if you happen to have majored in anything other than petroleum engineering

We wonder how many hedge funds are hard at work with Wall Street creating customized deals full of the worst student loan credits they can find with the sole intention of betting against them.

 

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Thu, 08/13/2015 - 20:49 | 6424475 JC-BI
JC-BI's picture

Think about this. A kid gets his first credit card in his mid-teens so he could learn to be endebted. Then, he gets into more debt to go to college. A debt that could take him almost a lifetime to repay. Then, he gets more endebted buying a car. Then he gets married and gets more debt with a mortgage and so on and so forth. What's wrong with this picture?>>>

https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/when-money-is-the-pr...

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:12 | 6424566 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Can't we the people just hang the cunt already?

 

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 03:17 | 6425132 cookie nookie
cookie nookie's picture

Most college degrees are complete bullshit.  How do kids make money with some of those majors?  Students should be allowed to declare bankruptcy.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 08:03 | 6425395 rbg81
rbg81's picture

You are thinking of it all wrong.  Outside of a few majors necessary for the continued existence of the State, Colleges and Universities are INDOCTRINATION CENTERS.  They may appear much nicer than the blatently Communist versions (which probably never offered perks like omlets to order at 2AM), but that is what they are.  So the masses of students take out huge loans to indoctrinate themselves.  In its way, its a beautiful masterpiece of a con job.  It's so perfect that the Powers-that-Be will NEVER allow this bubble to burst.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:50 | 6424687 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

New generation got fucked over no credit cards until one is 21 under Obamaland laws unless one gets a cosigner.

The kid never works to pay assets lolol

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 01:09 | 6425044 Bloppy
Bloppy's picture

No place easier to spot the college bubble than Boston, where there are a hundred colleges within earshot, most charging $60,000 a year. 

 

Boston Globe: ‘A day at the beach for the Obamas’

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 20:49 | 6424489 nmewn
nmewn's picture

#TenuredProfessorsLivesMatter!

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 20:53 | 6424501 localsavage
localsavage's picture

My school just likes to spend hundreds of millions on new buildings and gay looking art.  I guess that now you can't learn unless you you are in the lap of luxury surrounded by art. 

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:34 | 6424632 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

My former professor who has been the Uni VP off-and-on just bought a second vacation home on a golf course in NC. The other is off the coast of North Carolina.

 

Half of every class he complained that teachers were underpaid.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:47 | 6424677 techpreist
techpreist's picture

Reminds me of an AIDS rally on my campus where they covered the sculptures and were going on about "this is all the art that won't be created by someone who died from AIDS." I said "If you want to make that kind of point the scultures need to actually be good."

More serious though, I don't care how much money they throw at universities; profs will come up with new ways to spend every last penny and demand MOAR.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:55 | 6424702 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

#LiberalArtsMajorsLivesMatters...PleaseSendMOAR$T0GoFundWorthlessDebtDegree!

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 20:52 | 6424499 CHC
CHC's picture

Why why why THE FUCK is this becoming MY problem?!?!?!?!?!?

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 20:56 | 6424515 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Because you financed it.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:17 | 6424583 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Well, when a kid does not have to work his way through school for his bachelors in Medieval Basket Weaving because Sallie will give him all the money he wants for beer, pizza and parties in addition to tuition, somebody will have to pay.. even if it is not him.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:35 | 6424635 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

CHC, my advice; buy moar KY and some hemorrhoidal numbing cream.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 20:59 | 6424523 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Because unlimited issuance of fiat currency under a monopolistic central banking system creates an inherently infliexible capital structure, unbalanced from misallocaitons and distortions, that magnifies rather than dissipates economic shocks, and randomizes their net effect.  Because holding a FRN in your hand makes you a shareholder in the US Federal Reserve corporation and all associated entities within the boardwalk arcade otherwise known as the reserve currency marketplace, and subject to its whims. 

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:01 | 6424534 NorthernPike
NorthernPike's picture

"Why why why THE FUCK is this becoming MY problem?!?!?!?!?!?:"

 

A living breathing human. Quick, quick, rope it into being responsible for everything.

 

I AM Chump Inc - Human!

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:58 | 6424708 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

If this becomes your problem...then you might be a LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN THAT PAYS FED INCOME TAX EVERY YEAR.

Great work on not being a freeloader so we (US gov't) think you need to pay for freeloaders.....WAIT WHAT??? Logic does not compute!!!

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:43 | 6424939 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

If you get a 1099 every year like I do, you are basically fucked. That's why Pakis open a convenience store, Indians hotels, and so on. They run alot of undeclared cash their their businesses is my guess. Probably same for plumbers, carpenters, etc. One of th emost expensive houses on my block is owned by an electrician.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:02 | 6425155 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

It's not becoming your problem, it is, and always has been, your problem.

We're the ones loaning the money, not the fucking war criminal government.  Everyting the WCG does is in our name...your name.

You have to look at government as a mafia.  They don't actually generate any thing, they protect the status quo and charge a hefty fee for it.  And, if you don't pay up, they kill you or lock you up.  That is the essence of our war criminal government.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:00 | 6424532 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I'm just a old man who wants to get second degree to be displaced by the end of my MBA. They say the third time is a charm. 

/sarc

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:06 | 6424551 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

It may be easier and cheaper to get a fake one made in China.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:24 | 6424784 monad
monad's picture

It is far easier to get a real one made in India or China.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:06 | 6425159 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Tell me more.  I only need a couple credits for an MBA but have much more important things to do in life.  How does one get a fake one?

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:41 | 6424577 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If you play your cards right in this day & age you can welsh on the debt anyways, while feasting on EBT and proceed straight into retirement on SSI, with public housing, lights, water, sewer, trash pickup and a Faaaarrrreeeee! bus pass of course down to the local public park to talk to & feed the pidgeons subsidized seed!

No need to worry about reciting Shakespeare or Kant to them tho, they and passersby won't know what you're talking about.

///////

Wut, I've offended a Welshman somehow? ;-)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:57 | 6424706 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Dear God you've been microaggressed! Are you ok?

In my boredom recuperating I have wandered around and found something new. Cyber flashing! Now if there is a way to microaggress as well cyber flashing at the same time we should be able to bring this country to its knees! People will be crashing on the freeways. Buildings will collapse. Supply lines will stop and the economy finished.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33889225

Hell, I thought streaking was hilarious, I never thought to call the police.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:15 | 6424763 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Miffed,I had completely forgotten about microagression. I almost nanoagressed just now, having forgotten about microagression.  ;-)

Let's all quit our regular jobs and stop reading/posting on ZH and become Cyber Cops. I think it's the only way out of this mess. After all, there are only two job duties in the future: police/guard and prisoner.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:10 | 6425164 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Feel free to cyber flash me any time.  I have no thougts of aggression, you may be impressive, but in the end (might have worded that different) I couldn't care less.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 11:39 | 6426028 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

That would be unwise! I did this once recently to Mr as a joke not knowing he was in the car. I am thankful there was only a multitude of honking and no crash. I'm assuming cyber flashing is not covered under our policy.

I am under strict orders to " Never do that AGAIN!" and I will keep to my promise. I will say the amorous pursuits of that evening were especially delightful. Pity.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:06 | 6424550 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Unsustainable, just like the rest of the U.S.S.A. Kleptoligarchy Ponzi Pyramid scheme.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:13 | 6424564 googlenerd
googlenerd's picture

STEM == worthwhile.degree

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:38 | 6424642 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Tell that to the over 150,000 petrol engineers recently fired. But, basically, I agree with you.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:24 | 6424855 techpreist
techpreist's picture

Nah, they're finding ways to screw that up too. In academia they really force you to accept the 'public-private partnership' (fascism) model of solving societal problems, along with wanting everyone to be an advocate for whatever is in fashion. Lately it's women in STEM, which boils down to going into middle/high schools and telling young girls they are losers who have no value if they don't major in STEM. Or going into the inner city and telling the kid who isn't getting enough to eat (which is heartbreaking to see, the EBT/WIC/etc. money doesn't go to the kids), and whose mom ran out and left him homeless (saw that too) that his REAL problem is not taking out $50k+ in loans to go to college.

Granted, you can't PC the science itself, and watching certain leftist professors openly contradict themselves and explode in anger while teaching hard facts was entertaining to watch. I'm sure my biology profs will be particularly glad to know they contributed to my ID stance ;) More to the point, reactors don't hold together and work correctly just because a member of a protected class designed it. You either get it right or you don't.

IMO, it's not the degree that's useful, so much as getting over your fear of dealing with complicated systems and problem solving. I studied chemical engineering, but I am doing programming now. I didn't take a single class, and had to self teach everything I do on the job while reasoing my way through the half-dozen problems that come up every day. If you do go to a university, using that time to build up real skills is vastly more useful than playing games or drinking like most kids do. Oh, and being one of those street preachers is a lot of fun and is a great chance to pick up some unique communication skills ;)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:34 | 6424923 techpreist
techpreist's picture

Speaking of women in STEM, keep in mind that I've mentored multiple female colleagues when they were getting started in my lab. Including one woman who was convinced that she wasn't meant to be in science because she was a woman and it wasn't her place. Since she was from overseas, and from a country that wasn't stable, we had a long conversation about how she could handle it and how her family needs her and she has the talent, etc. She got through.

Then, I talk about this with a feminist I know, and his first response was "What do you mean she thinks like that? I'd get in her face and demand to know what's wrong with her!" As if caring about women's rights and advancement means "getting in their face" and asking "What's wrong with you?!" He doesn't have a girlfriend despite trying to please the femnist apparatchiks. Feminist men just do not GET IT.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:20 | 6425170 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

While I tell my stories and lies.  My wife will spin a tale of going with me to college classes where thousands would look over, and collectively breathe "aw, shit, that asshole's here."  I could NOT tolerate a lying liberal professor spewing propaganda, and would stand up and tell them, in deep detail, how they were full of shit.

My wife tells everyone I was the biggest asshole in college because of the reaction to my presence when she was there.  She never saw me actually win the argument, and to this day has no comprehension of what we were talking about, she judges me on what the crowd thought of me.  And that's her story.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:48 | 6424682 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

They make it a discentive in a public college to be in STEM. Why? Look at a college course guide and check how much credit hours one earns in a liberal arts major vs STEM. It will suprise you. Typically more credits are given to liberal arts courses for example english literature can give you 4 credit hours whereas a Parasitology or microbiology course might get a 3 or maybe a 4 credit hours tops. Oh did I mention you need to take 2 -4 hours of extra lab time to complete the science classes. Oh but, english literature course doesn't have a lab or a student applied learning aspect.

So short sightedness on my millennial peers part would set them on the course for easier courses with less work and time devoted to getting more credit hours to graduate sooner.

Older ZHers, this is one aspect that I have yet to hear from all the college bubble problems. Yes, college bubble is propped by an internal bubble inside it called liberal arts major bubble still.

My peers don't like STEM because it involves well....it involves one's mind and body to the point it causes distress. Most can't hold up a topic without sounding like looney liberal professor's wet dreem come true drones.

Thus, we need more libertiarian/conservative/patriotic professors or else more liberal nutjobs that paid to be one with college debt

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:29 | 6424799 Peak Finance
Peak Finance's picture

STEM has in fact been GREATLY dumbed-down as well.

Just one example my under-grad, Stats was TWO FULL SEMESTERS and we went all of the way from the basics to full factorial analysis.  My Grad level Stats 15 years later was JUST ONE SEMESTER and dodn't go much further than T test's I think and barely covered some other topics like correlation. My PHD Stats five years after that was the same watered down bullshit as Grad, but, we didn't even have to do ANY maths manually, all assignments were SPSS

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:43 | 6424831 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

IEYD, I appreciate your comments in this thread.

Engineering degree: 180 credits. I graduated with 260 and the equivalent of three degrees, and barely got exposure to anything at all we do in industry, excepting for an embedded systems class that covered some of the basics, a parallel architectures class that gave some good insights and exposure, and my senior project where I finally designed a real goddamned circuit board (almost all EE and CE graduates never do that).

If a BS kollege degree (ordered that way on purpose) is supposed to provide an introduction to a field, then it COSTS WAY THE FUCK TOO MUCH.

If an introductory degree doesn't give you a proper introduction to be able to perform in industry, the DEGREE IS WORTHLESS.

If the degree is supposed to get you a job, you CAN'T GET A JOB, because non-retiring boomers, H1Bs, employers expect someone with 10 yrs of experience with all the checkboxes filled and totally compliant, no training... list goes on and on.

--

The whole thing is a trap. People say "oh, you say that cuz you already been through kollege", but FUCK KOLLEGE.

If anything, kollege made me 2x dumber with all the brain cells I killed with the beer bongs.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:30 | 6425183 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I hire.  The thing with college today, last seven years, is that I bring in a 'college graduate' and ask them to perform math in their head...and they can't do it.  I give them a calculator and ask them to answer a cubit foot problem...and they can't answer.  Fuck, they have to look at the keys!

I ask a lady from 1980's high school the cubit foot problem and she doesn't need the calculator.  She doesn't need anything but ten seconds to answer it.  No calculator, no internet, nothing but her mind.  Who do you think I'd hire?

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:59 | 6424859 pitz
pitz's picture

Only problem is, nearly 3/4 of STEM degree holders in the United State are underemployed or unemployed. 

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:53 | 6424951 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

But But But, Obama said he was going to use STEM majors to help create a greener America being less dependent on fossil fuels. It would provide jobs like the solar industry. Solyndra is Obama's masterpiece that will be expanded to all other green companies. [Sarc]

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 06:09 | 6425265 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Really? What is your source for that stat? Pulling BS out of your ass?

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:28 | 6424609 LibertarianMenace
LibertarianMenace's picture

The OP says financing a college education is in a bubble and about to pop? That's what we were told back in the late 70s and early 80s when I was a student, and tuition inflation was pacing at more than 18% per annum. Yeah, it's about to pop. As long as money continues to represent political power and not economic value (true all across the world), this can continue indefinitely.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:34 | 6424629 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

As a millennial and a ZHer, I wish I had learn the truth of the world before I started college. It destroyed my motivation to continue the pointless liberal institutionalized bullshit they pass as "learning" now days. I am warning others that are graduating high school to go to vocational/trade school or paid apprecticeship. If the old timers (not millennials lol), knew the bullshit the professors have students do after they prepaid for education, and make us internship for free or volunteer. Talk about colleges getting their money's worth...subsidies, grants, contributions, student/parents money, student's ability to be fine with the college using them as free labor in their graduation year, and not granting students access to paid classes.

I am self employed WITHOUT A DEGREE. Also before I ran out of my own money for college, I was smart enough to join a frat with connections and character, TKE. I live alone in a 1700 sq ft. single family house and with land to farm which I do with a car I own.

On the other hand, college peers that DID GRADUATE WITH A DEGREE are living back with their parents, without jobs, smoking weed (not good when applying t bo jobs that probably drug screen), asking mom to drive them on dates and on facebook updating their lack of interest in being independent and liberalism.

If only I invested all the money I spent on college on 3d printing.

So ZHers, guess how college graduates are going to fair with the advancement of 3d/4d printing, AI (especially open source), EM thrusters, and robotics?

Not well at all. AI coupled with robotics is learning at a quick pace. Who needs college graduates when machines/programs can learn, act, behave, create, etc. Robotic AI will soon be able to run on similar energy tech like EM thrusters concept.

Oh I guess I can always 3d print degrees....to burn for BTUs or sell as memorabilia?

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:37 | 6424812 Peak Finance
Peak Finance's picture

I actually don't believe the following is going to happen and I have this discussion often with friends:

Not well at all. AI coupled with robotics is learning at a quick pace. Who needs college graduates when machines/programs can learn, act, behave, create, etc. Robotic AI will soon be able to run on similar energy tech like EM thrusters concept.

Societies in decline do not build robot armies or vast robot manufacturing centers or deploy AI-Talent at retail. OF course there are developments inthe pipeline and the technology will get slightly better, but I believe that the Average societal IQ necessary to build, maintain and advance the field of robotics and AI simply does not exist anymore. You can have advanced technology and mars missions, or affirimative action and diversity, not both

Look as SpaceX, they are saying there that project managers are "re-inventing wheels" becuase old NASA engineers took knowledge to the grave with them. 

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 05:00 | 6425192 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

"Look as SpaceX, they are saying there that project managers are "re-inventing wheels" becuase old NASA engineers took knowledge to the grave with them. "

 

As a child of the 60's, everytime I get a check from 'The Space Ship Company' a tingle goes up my leg.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 13:35 | 6426570 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Look as SpaceX, they are saying there that project managers are "re-inventing wheels" becuase old NASA engineers took knowledge to the grave with them.

 

This has always been true. It is one reason guilds were invented.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:57 | 6424857 Jack's Raging B...
Jack's Raging Bile Duct's picture

AI to replace creative human thought or problems solving is a very far way off. This is for three reasons.

  1. The computational power does not exist. Quantum computing lends a solution, but does not yet exist in its true form. 
  2. Existing programming languages are inadequate and almost unmeasurably inferior to native thought.
  3. Toasters are understood because all of their governing physics are thoroughly understood. The human brain is not a toaster. Humans are unlikely to create an AI that can compete with the flexibiilty and adaptability of human intelligence until they become something greater than human.
Fri, 08/14/2015 - 00:40 | 6425005 I Eat Your Dingos
I Eat Your Dingos's picture

I was pretty sure I read an article on ZH about companies racing to replace human capital specifically in one area like creative thinking. Algos already write news stories. Google, NSA, DARPA is working on quantum computing. Deep Dream is a program for computers to learn about neural networks. Collective submarine drones are learning to function as an unit.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/artificial-intelligence/worl...

Scientists have created a mother robot to create children robots for robotic evolution.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/artificial-intelligence/mother-robots-build-children-robots-to-experiment-with-artificial-evolution

I do agree the tech isn't here yet, but it is coming sooner than you think. Tech advances has skyrocketed in the past 20 years than the past century. Humans can't imagine how quick we will make labor nearly null and void. On kickstarter this week, they are OPEN SOURCING AI TECH (http://www.3ders.org/articles/20150813-mycroft-is-the-first-ever-open-so...)....was that quick or what getting tech in the consumer's hands very soon.

I bet you didn't catch CPU news today (http://www.extremetech.com/tag/quantum-computing), but they unveiled a FULLY REPROGRAMMABLE OPTICAL CHIP for advancing quantum computing. (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-08/uob-noc081315.php)

Scientists predict 2050s for quantum computing but, I'm sure it will be done by the 2030, 2040s.

Obama is having DARPA map out and understand the brain to control it .

Computer language will be made anew or modified or extracted for quantum computing. Qubits can be 1 and 0 at once or separate. Superpositions of atoms carrying data in laser lattices suspended in a computer. Who would have thunk it lol.

Its like 3d printing advanced in some areas to 4d printing. Scientists can create DNA-like instructions for atoms or molecules to react to environment for self assembly.

Self assembly, 3d printing recycling, CERN discoveries, EM thruster tech used for other energy applications, scalar MagGav tech, quantum computing, nanobots, open source AI, artifical neural networks, incorporating biology into quantum computing, etc.

Look at jobs now robotics is taking over those min. wage worker positions.

 

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 00:18 | 6424983 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Not sure why you are prepaying for your college, beyond paying your tuition at the start of each semester.

Not sure why your university "make us internship for free", never heard of that.  There were internships offered by some larger corporations for those who had above average grades.

Not sure what kind of farming you are doing when you say "land to farm which I do with a car I own."  Now I've pulled a plow with a truck but never with a car.  Never seen that.

We have been hearing about self intelligent robots/computers since the 60's. Sure, the machines are going to take over everything, design themselves, programe themselves - good grief.

Not sure why a college degree made your "college peers" now spend all their time smoking weed.  Does having a degree cause this? 

If you handle your college expenses properly I see nothing about a college degree that prevents someone from doing everything you claim you did.  In fact with the proper degree they will be adapt to excell at it.  And they have a fall back should they decide to work for someone else using their degree. 

Just think how much further you would have gone if you had quit your education after junior high.  Why, highschool is for dummies.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:49 | 6425208 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

"Not sure why your university "make us internship for free", never heard of that." 

My 1995 internship was with the Victorville Fire Department, it was internship for free, to earn three credits.  My assignment was to do a tax assessment on the former George Air Force Base that had been closed under Clinton.  They gave me six months to do the project, I was done in two months.  Then was hired by the City of Victorville after explaining to the Fire Chief how he actually had to retire to save him a shit load of money.  He still knows my name as a City Council member, even though I live in another town.

While everything you do at a University is voluntary, at least when I went through the system, taking on an internship was a voluntary position by the rules of the game. I took it on because I had a notch to fill on completeing every class available on my double load in college.  I don't recommend it for any kid, but for anyone over 40, this is the way to go.  (Won't go into my first day when the battalion chief lit water on fire or the awesomeness of a deserted military base with food on the tables.)

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 21:38 | 6424643 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

#studentlivesmatter

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:50 | 6425210 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

#studentlivesmatter#notheydont#noonegivesashit

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:18 | 6424773 homiegot
homiegot's picture

Millions of deadbeats not wanting to pay their loans.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:33 | 6424804 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Maybe the minimum wage increase is just a way of laundering money to pay off student loans via wage-based payment schemes.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:59 | 6424860 Jack's Raging B...
Jack's Raging Bile Duct's picture

What a horrendously cynical and horrifying thought.

I find it plausible.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:38 | 6424818 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

 

 

Go to a two year tech school.  Learn to be a diesel mechanic.

 

My brother works in a shop in my hometown where I was born........ two guys work there as diesel techs....50 hours a week.  Both in their late 20's....both pulling in 100K a year.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 00:03 | 6424958 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Those are pretty lucky guys.  The average diesel mechanic makes $45,000 per year.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 07:39 | 6425348 Refuse-Resist
Refuse-Resist's picture

My friend who graduated HS with me in 85, went to diesel mechanic school. By 1987, he was pulling in $20 per hour.  In those days, to me he was a real baller.

I was making just over $4 at masonary constructio, working with mexicans and some other white guys. The mexicans  made $20/day.

The problem is that diesel mechanics (not every single one, but most), like other blue collar trades, are basically making the same gross wage they were 30 years ago.

If there were no inflation since then, that would be fine.

IMO $40k in 1987 is roughly equivalent to over $100k per year now. Or more.

All the blue collar trades guys I knew as a young man were making $15+/hour back then. They still make about that.

They used to have a nice lifestyle, nice clothes, nice cars, toys(4wd, dirtbikes, boats, etc), and hot chicks.  Now they drive beaters, have shitty clothes, sold all the toys, and live a lot lower down the food chain than they did back then.

Thanks to 'free trade', open borders, and my favorite, currency devaluation through deficit spending. Thanks Ds and Thanks Rs!

America FUCK YEAH!

 

 

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 11:18 | 6425925 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Open borders destroyed the backbone of the country, at least for the citizens.

There was a layering of the blue collar world.  Most layers, if you were proficient, earned you at least a lower middle class life in a safe neighborhood.  If you were a trades person it was better.  The illegals started at the bottom and took it all over.  General labor, framing, carpenters, plumbing, masons, concrete work - then general welding, rough electrical under a licensed electrician (goodby apprentice electrician).  This pushed more and more into the remaining blue collar segments, which lowered the wages more.

One of the coveted jobs, really coveted, was to be an "operator" at one of the industrial plants.  Often you started as a roustabout type doing anything.  The roustabouts became illegals/newly legals at lower wages.  The competition for operators and trainee postions caused them to decrease in wage scale.  Now operators barely make a lower middle class wage provided their wives work full time.  They used to have nice boats, now they are little used up pieces of junk that need constant work. The industrial plants now have policies, even for plant maintenance, that you must have a college degree to get paid above a certain level.  REGARDLESS of natural talent and ability or years of service.  That is a fact, not fair, not smart but they make general policies and stick to them.  Knew a great, dedicated talented man who worked his entire career for one and even he could not break through it.  (Should have gotten a simple communications or business degree at the local college at night.)

The ONLY people at those industrial plants who are still kicking it economically ALL have degrees. 

Kids think about this - Now most of the large construction companies have policies that you cannot advance above a certain level unless you have a college degree.  Yes, the by your own boot strap industry requires a degree to get above job superintendent.  And many of the job super's higher responsibilities have been moved to "project managers" (or young Project Engineers) and those project managers MUST have a college degree.  Now the job super's get additional stressful, pressing, grinding shit work that their assistants used to do for them.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 22:38 | 6424819 Bluntly Put
Bluntly Put's picture

TSLRP?

Troubled [Toxic] Student Loan Relief Plan?

$325 billion ain't gonna cover it, and colleges can't print their own money. Yet.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:13 | 6424882 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

One related segment to this is the emerging "off-campus housing" scheme.

In this colleges that have no or limited housing are now securing "master leases" with apartment complexes or compelling new development.

The terms of the lease specify that the university may sublease their space at a rent of their choosing, wherein the property operator turn-keys all the on-site maintenance.

All the campus has to do is offer limited direct transportation and PRESTO! - the college can now add "housing" as a larger financial aid line item under "prevailing market rents ++++ - just like a student living in an on-campus dorm.

Call it the Virtual Dorm.

The college sets the amount of the loan, charges the student X, pays themselves as a pass-through (the student never sees the money) and since the college is subleasing entire complexes, they make a profit between the student price and the mater lease price.

Now you have a program where people are going into non-dischargeable debt in order to rent.

There is a reason higher-ed costs are growing 400% higher than health care costs.

Fascism.

It's what's for dinner.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 07:42 | 6425353 Refuse-Resist
Refuse-Resist's picture

What they did at my alma mater, was to convert a historicly college student apartment area or neighborhood, to section 8 once the college built super fancy luxury apartments close to campus.

 

That apartment area also had cool bars where many residents could walk to the bar and avoid blue heroes while going home.

 

Now they just get mugged, beaten, raped, or killed by the dindus who moved in to the section 8 apartments.

 

It is not good to go to college poor these days.  You end up living amongst the ghetto trash if you can't afford $6-800 month for these luxury "dorms".

 

Fuck. That.

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:20 | 6424898 Icelandicsaga.....
Icelandicsaga...............................................'s picture

Part of yhis...Harvard sitting on 36  plus BILLION endowment ....among largest contributors to democrats..universities ..UC gave Obama nearly 2 million in 2012...its not about educating its another form of extracting the system, creating permanent debt slaves who likel have no ability to pay off debt..ever.http://harvardmagazine.com/2014/09/harvard-endowment-rises-to-36-4-billi...                                                          https://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contrib.php?id=N00009638

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 08/13/2015 - 23:28 | 6424915 kedi
kedi's picture

And if the money is forthcoming. It will likely go to this.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2011/features...

Bloat of more paper pushers. Also, salaries for top level university and college staff like Deans etc is very lucrative.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 03:25 | 6425144 Falling Down
Falling Down's picture

Try telling this stuff to your typical boobus americanus, you'll get the typical 'you have a third eye in your forehead', look.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:03 | 6425156 ultuma
ultuma's picture

We have all sorts of specialists across every aspect of our daily life, and many of these positions require specialized skills that is only possible to be delivered by taking a degree to get the job done. The problem is funding, many countries outside the US have sustainable student loan system where the graduate can normally paid up within the first 5 years of their employment. It is about the ability of each individual to manage their financial matter, as well as jobs available in the market for the students.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 04:40 | 6425198 PoasterToaster
PoasterToaster's picture

The biggest bubble is the oligarchs of the US printing themselves into minor deities and destroying the country in the process.

The owners of the US have ruined everything, and are now pointing fingers at people trying to train for nonexistent jobs.

Shame.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 07:43 | 6425358 Refuse-Resist
Refuse-Resist's picture

This comment wins this thread.

 

GET A ROPE!  GET LOTS OF ROPE!  WE"RE GONNA NEED IT!

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 11:19 | 6425939 anti-republocrat
anti-republocrat's picture

Before we all run out and short Navient, we might want to consider that this is old news, that Navient is already off 35% from its all time high, and that it's relationship to this scandal is complex.  It doesn't just own student loans and collect interest on them.  It's revenues include loan servicing and asset recovery services, some of which could actually increase as the bubble deflates.  If Navient becomes blatantly insolvent, will the Fed or government bail it out either directly or through sweetheart, no-bid contracts?  Maybe shorting some of these college related stocks could be lucrative, but better thoroughly research the situation first.

Fri, 08/14/2015 - 11:21 | 6425949 Dr_Snooz
Dr_Snooz's picture

"college loans - doled out by our government"

You're wrong. The loans under GW were made by banks. That's why they've been securitized and dumped on suckers..., er, investors, just like subprime housing loans before the 2008 collapse. Moody's is figuring out that it's all a charade and is downgrading. Obama changed the laws so loans made by the federal government during his administration are from the federal government, who holds and services those loans. They are obviously not being securitized by banks and are not part of this bank feeding frenzy.

I know ZH wants to play the government-is-bad angle, but the real angle here is that big-banks-are-bad. As usual.

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