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The Crisis Is Spreading: China, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Sweden...
Earlier today, we posted an excerpt from IceCap Asset Management's latest letter to investors focusing on the farce that is the Greek bailout #3, which can be summarized simply by the following table...
... and Keith Dicker's assessment which was that "for Greece, it’s mathematically impossible to repay its debt" and that the Greek "economy continues to plummet to deeper depths and is now -33% less than where it was in 2008."
But the truth is that for all the endless drama, Dicker continues, "the Greek debt crisis isn’t THE crisis. Rather it is simply a symptom of a much larger global debt crisis."
The problem is that the "larger global debt crisis" is finally metastasizing and spreading to more places, all of which are large enough that they can not be simply swept under the rug, like Greece.
* * *
IceCap's Keith Dicker continues:
We’ve written before that governments all around the world have borrowed too much money and the weight of these debts are choking economic growth.
And to make matters worse – these very same governments and their central banks have implemented various plans that have only made matters worse.
Our view has not changed – the global debt crisis has escalated to a point where the government bond bubble has inflated itself to become the mother of all bubbles. It’s going to burst, and when it does it wont be pretty.
Further evidence to support our view is as follows:
Canada – the collapse in oil and commodity markets has pushed the country into recession and the Canadian Dollar to decline to levels lower than that reached during the 2008 crisis.
Oil dependent provinces Alberta and Newfoundland remain in deep denial. Since everyone in these provinces have only ever experienced a booming oil market, many naively believe things will bounce back – and quickly.
Meanwhile, both Toronto and Vancouver housing markets also remain in denial as they continue to go gangbusters. Buyers today are likely buying at all-time highs.
And as we predicted last year, the Bank of Canada has cut (not raised) interest rates twice in the last 6 months.
We fully expect the Bank of Canada to eventually cut interest rates to 0% and start a money printing program as well. And for the stunner - NEGATIVE interest rates will not be that far behind.
Australia – Over the last 20 years, China has been viewed as the growth engine of the world, and justifiably so. With annual growth rates between 8% to 15%, China’s economy was literally eating every rock, stalk and barrel of practically every commodity in the world.
And naturally, any country or company that produced these commodities made a tonne of money – including Australia.
Today, China’s growth rate has slowed to about 3% which is a dramatic slow down compared to what it achieved in the past. This slowdown and China’s effort to even maintain these rates, will have significant repercussions around the world.
And the first up to bear the brunt of this slowdown is its closest supplier of raw materials – Australia.
With dark clouds on the economic horizon, the Australian government and central bank is doing everything possible to prevent the unpreventable recession.
Interest rates have been reduced to all-time historical lows, meanwhile the Australian Dollar has plummeted -25% over the last year. Yet – the negative outlook has not improved.
Brazil – Like Australia, Brazil has benefitted immensely from China’s growth. And now, also like Australia, it too is feeling the affects of the dramatic Chinese slowdown.
The economy has now declined for 12 consecutive months making it both the longest and deepest recession in 25 years.
But wait – it gets worse. Despite declining growth, inflation continues to soar higher causing interest rates to rise as well.
And if that wasn’t bad, also know that the Brazilian currency has fell off the cliff at -53%.
Sweden – Unlike Australia and Brazil, Sweden relies very little on China as a buyer of last resort. Yet, the Swedish economy is also not very hot these days.
In fact, instead of spectacular and dramatic declines in anything, it is doing the exact opposite – it just isn’t moving.
While Sweden isn’t in the Eurozone, it is smack dab next to it and that in itself is reason enough for the lack of growth. We’ve written before how the debt crisis in the Eurozone is acting like a giant, slow moving tornado that is sucking the life out of the economy and everything near by. And unfortunately for Sweden, it is very near by.
While economic growth in the Nordic state hasn’t declined, it hasn’t accelerated either – and this is what has many worried.
So worried, that the central bank shocked everyone not once but twice, by first announcing that they would begin to print money, and then when they announced that interest rates would be NEGATIVE.
These actions are so severe, that we need to repeat them:
1) MONEY PRINTING
2) NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES
It is hoped that these actions will cause people and companies to loosen their wallets and start spending again. Yet, what the government and the central bank doesn’t understand is that these actions will actually make the problem worse.
As the global economy continues to move as we expect, there is nothing Sweden can do to change what is coming – a global recession and a significantly weaker Krona.
China, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Sweden - it is beyond us how anyone can declare the crisis isn’t spreading. Be prepared – there are going to be lots of opportunities to both make and lose money.
But first, you have to recognize what is happening.
* * *
IceCap's full letter below
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Canada for the win
I live in Canada and I can tell you the denial in Alberta is fading fast. Food banks are empty, pet shelters are full, new car sales have fallen off a cliff and non-oil businesses in Calgary are seeing their revenues down 50%,.
All this while a massive commercial building boom is underway, which is adding to millions of sq. ft. vacant properties piling up. Energy companies are desperately trying to sublease their current space, with no luck.
In a word, it's ugly.
Q: Why don't Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Halloween?
A: They don't like random strangers knocking on their door.
Uncle Milty would like to have a word with all you socialists.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vjH4QBSwWlg&itct=CCQQpDAYACITCNXA3dSgrMcCF...
Stop worrying. Everything is going to be all right. Time to sell the gold. Deflation is here to stay for a couple decades.
gold and silver make money in deflation. see the action in homestake mining 1929 to 1936. not many u.s. stocks matched it. gold miners are as cheap as they were in 2000 and gold is six times higher. see also gold vs. fed balance sheet.
http://www.oilngold.com/analysis/research/gold-a-gold-stocks-during-peri...
http://www.macrotrends.net/1448/fed-balance-sheet-vs-gold-price
Jeff, gold and silver do not have reproductive organs. It's a metal! What it does is protect against 'currency debasement'. If you have your eye on collecting more IOU's you might want to instead think about what your gold and silver is worth in terms of goods and services. The following link is a good place to start.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVa7fBOvLxM
"" The housing market needs a sharp correction up here, in 1995 $500k would buy a custom built mansion on a lakeside community, today $500k just gets you an Agenda 21 downsized single detached home. ""
Basically, RE Is Valued IN: "Paper FIATS Money", IE Banking Book Entry Of Asset, Nothing
Else.
So If You Value AND Trust Banks And Paper Fiats Assets, Housing May Be Overvalued.
Obversely, You May Put Your Trust In HARD ASSETS That You Can Actually Use, Then RE May Be
Yet Pacing For A Long Ride Higher (In Banking Paper Fiats ASSETS)...
Gold is a play on the response to deflation, not on the deflation itself.
House prices in Alberta fell about 0.2% last month yet the media & realtors were quick to lable that as a "buyer's market". This type of spin isn't that far off from communist propaganda - most people just can't see it. A year ago, I warned a friend not to buy a $430,000 tiny starter home in Calgary, but to put it off for one to two years, I said just my opinion...& I haven't heard from the guy in a while this year..
The housing market needs a sharp correction up here, in 1995 $500k would buy a custom built mansion on a lakeside community, today $500k just gets you an Agenda 21 downsized single detached home.
And even if you're a landlord with a paid off property...with valuations so high any rental property would only produce 3-4% annual returns.
#PleasePassTheKoolAid
+1 for The housing market needs a sharp correction up here, in 1995 $500k would buy a custom built mansion on a lakeside community, today $500k just gets you an Agenda 21 downsized single detached home.
Its true, and its fucking goofy. People are spending a fuck ton of money for places that require another fuck ton of money just to get them to where they should be. I don't get it actually. Mortgage rates while they have dropped some with Poloz's rate cuts still cannot possibly be compensating for what is essentially a hollowed out manufacturing and now eviscerated oil patch.
The question for me remains: "who the fuck keeps buying up all this shit?"
"People are spending a fuck ton of money for places that require another fuck ton of money just to get them to where they should be."
It is interesting. Where I live things are very odd because people who were never wealthy and generally didn't keep up their homes still have half a million dollar asset. And so now, when they are selling them, you have a home worth a ton that is in terrible shape. Crazy times.
How much of this "fuck ton of money" is real money and how much is printed debt money?
It's real only if it can be sold and the seller can walk away with the cash [and convert it to PM]. Paper gains are worth about as much as what they're printed on.
Ah, this is a symptom of cheap money. Probably the .fed is loaning cheap money to someone who is pushing the 'income' of rentals and they are buying the property. RE is kinda like the oil patch, push valuations to the max and borrow as much money...otherwise the ponzi is seen and the unwind begins.
People are poor and hungry because of their own laziness, not because of capitalism or socialism.
Theres no reason anyone cant grow, fish, hunt for enough food and water to sustain themselves.
The government wants you to believe that you need more junk and toys in your life so that they can keep taxing and spending. (keep oiling the machine so they can feed the banksters)
Imagine if everyone grew their own food and made their own funiture. Oly Shit Man! The tax money the taxman would lose out on.
Thats why they keep on yelling about all the money you need to make to be happy. Because they get 20% of it for nothing.
While I can agree with your premise to some degree, what you are ignoring is skill. As someone who was raised by a green thumb and excellent cook I can do neither. As a builder of custom furniture for a living, I can say there are few if any that can do that either.
If, what you are suggesting that people will be satisfied eating what they can grow and living within what they can build, I would respectfully suggest there will be blood deep in the streets, before that ever happens again.
What do you mean, "before that ever happens again." It will happen again, its just a matter of time.
As far as building furniture, a chair is a chair is a chair. You park yer ass in one. Any chair will do.
For those who would attempt a back-to-nature lifestyle, the largely forgotten skills that were taught in the Foxfire book series could prove to be invaluable. The book series is still available, both in print form and pdf format from certain torrenting sites.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Collection-Anniversary-Editions-Anniversa...
Thanks for the link. Just let me say that I'm in no hurry to eat the weeds around my house. Although,I know every weed that I can eat if I have to.
hahahahaha! Oh knuks, that one has to be worth a turd in purgatory... but don't worry, after making me laugh so hard I'll smoke it for ya
Hahaha, yes, ohhh. KNUCKS. So funny. Knucks. Entertaining the lower intellect crowd on an internet message board. Tell us again about the knuks family vacation to Hawaii when you saw some Samoan people. That was so awesome, Knuks!
God do I hate people.
You may blow me now.
Crisis # 1 - 2009 | $ 140 Billion | couldn't pay back - needed bailout
Crisis # 2 - 2012 | $ 240 Billion | couldn't pay back - needed bailout
Crisis # 3 - 2015 | $ 400 Billion | ???
Crisis # 4 - 2018 | $ 600 Billion | Profit
#UnderpantsGnomesForCongress
Q: Why was Viagra the #1 prescription drug stolen during the riots in Ferguson, Mo?
A: Because Black Lives is impotent.
Relax, the oil hedges are still in place until about October, then the real pain begins.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-02/shale-drillers-about-be-zero-he...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-03/fdic-sounds-alarm-insolvent-zer...
Also, refer to how the prior depression played out in the oil patch for reference:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-05-06/when-the-great-depressi...
I am in Australia.
I think the possibility of a recession has entered people's minds here... but 'ya know... maybe... but she'll be right'.
There is no wide-scale concern that something bad is about to hit us for the 'average person' here. People are still paying record prices for Real Estate etc.
why do people continueto use the word " recession " when it's abundantly clear it is much worse than that? and if people start using the words " green shoots " and " recovery " again before the real problems are solved once and for all I will go crazy !
You may want to stock up on your medication now :)
I'm also in Australia.
Worked for Dupont for half a dozen years, did some time in pharmacuetical engineering and some more in automotive. I can tell you that Australia imports all plastics as either raw polymer chip, semi finished material or finished material. That means everything you touch made of polymer/Plastic is imported.
From my time in pharmacueticals i discovered that Australia doesn't smelt 316L stainless steel, all pharmaceuticals are processed through this material, meaning all pharmacuetical production relies on imported 316L electropolished stainless steel.
Soon all car manufactoring in Australia will cease. Australia will not, in any meaningful numbers, produce an engine, Chainsaw, Motorbike, Car, Truck, Excavation and mining equipment.
G'day Mate
interest rates / housing / correlation?prices can rise enormously as our budgets were used to 6-8 percent. now in the 3-4 percent prices can nearly double and we buy that payment and are happy with a fucking place to live rather than renting next to renters(very depressing thought-low life fucking renters). so that is what drives real estate for now-LOW FUCKING ENGINERED INTERET RATES, cause buyers buy a paymnt and get a home....
imagine the price with 1 1/2 - 2 percent 30 yr rates, ha...
it is coming...
Yes...you are right. The price tag is bigger, but the bankers rent is the same. In the end, I think we will see a depression followed by hyperinflation ignited by yellen and compromised government and corporate policies. They know it's coming, but just can't help themselves. It's probably not a bad idea to lock in a bankers rent. In the event of a default hand them the keys when the sheriff walks up to the door, or fight it and live several more years for free. Your fucking over the most criminal enterprise on the planet. I wouldn't shed any tears.
which would you rather buy....a $500k house with extremely low interest rate, or a $200k home with high interest rate?
Both payments are the same and both houses are the same.
We are driven by our brains, which tells us that a 50% off sale is a good deal at Zales Jewelers. People jump at the chance of buying a $40k car for $60k when the payments are the same.
Inflation is a bait and switch game and we fall for it every time.
Low interest rates have their own problems but they are no cause of the housing problem. The housing problem is caused PURELY by BANKS LENDING TO IDIOTS who bid up prices to unsustainable levels. Interest rates can be as high as you like but that WILL NOT stop bankers from lending to idiots. The banksters GOT BAILED OUT. The threat of bankruptcy will not stop the banksters from lending to idiots. Be sensible. Write out a budget. Stick to what you can afford. But then when you go to buy a house, some idiot, who has not done the maths, will outbid you purely because some bankster said it is okay, and you will go homeless while the idiot will buy the house he can not afford to repay.
Then when you try and point out to the average yob that one plus one does not equal three they will parrot back to you, "Supply and Demand". In a normal world, "demand" is limited by the amount of money in your pocket, not by what a bailed-out bankster is willing to lend. And then the average yob, who is so happy to blabber "Supply and Demand" totally ignores the Supply side of the equation. Where are the entrepreneurs taking advantage of high prices to increase supply? Oh, but why would they supply affordable housing when they can make more money by supplying unaffordable housing?
"Low interest rates have their own problems but they are no cause of the housing problem"
I agree with most of was you wrote although it is the low interest that brings out all the idiots that think because of the low interest they can afford a bigger house or even a more expansive house as in here in Canada.
Because of the low interest the youth trying to keep up with the jones buy a much bigger house/truck because Hey they can afford it with the low interest rates!
They don't think that hard. They say "Low interest rates" because everyone else says "Low interest rates".
They may say, "Low interest rates" but what they mean is, "My banker said I can afford it" and "My banker is the professional. Why would he lie to me? If he doesn't think I can afford it then he loses too." Time to teach them about CDOs, CDSs and bail-outs.
Be a good idea to take them through a budget. (But who wants to do maths now they've left school? ... Whoever thought maths would have utility? Oh, obviously maths doesn't work 'coz maths sez I can't afford to buy anything but my friend buys lots of things so obviously she can afford to buy stuff. Your maths must be wrong!)
Sounds like another country I know....you know, the exceptional one.
Australia is facing a cyclical downturn with their reliance on Chinese business but the real problem is systemic - the relationship with the USA will force China to diversify their supply lines away from Australia just as Russia has done with food reliance on the EU.
The Aussies will face the true price of support for the insanity that US foreign policy represents - major dislocation coming in coal. iron, and many other commodities
Caught_Fish
Sorry to see you mates in that fix.Sorry to see any of us in the fix we are in, but had ZERO control over.Your country is the ONLY Western country with the TESTICULAR fortitude to say hell no!, our way or highway!, when it comes to allowing Muslims to take over you nation.
As all others are doing.We worry about the Mexicans when we should be as concerned if not more so about the Muslims.According to the LAST Census report more Arabic language immigrants than any other have come in.
Talk about letting fox into the chicken house.And Obama is telling them to ALLOW MORE, MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
A TOTAL DOUCHE & FLUSH OF D.C. needs to happen.
I have wondered - if you scrape away mining and agriculture from the top of our (Australia) economy - what is left underneath? (other than the circle jerk of real estate and finance etc)
Do we make anything?
Heaps mate;
a right done bbq prawn,
a decent beer,
vegamite,
boots,
outback jackets....
heaps I tell ya....heaps
http://www.australianmade.com.au/products/
I warned,(along with many others at ZH, I am sure) when the housing bubble was goin full tilt.That Canada was a carbon copy of the US.
They would see the exact same results as the USA.
Sadly, it has come about, but like the DUMB Americans, they thought the DREAM could go on forever.The love of Mammon is such an evil taskmaster,is it not?.
Canucks here Pshawed me, and said THEY were not going to go the way of DoDo bird Americans.
But, alas, Sadly your arse's are now in neck deep in the SAME but deeper septic tank with the rest of the ignorant and greedy.
"I live in Canada and I can tell you the denial in Alberta is fading fast."
Alberta is not Canada, it is part of Canada.
Your point is difficult to discern, but I'll give it a try. You are offended by non-Albertians commenting on Alberta (even though it may be based on first-hand observation)?
Or maybe Alberta's oil & gas economic collapse is an anomaly and the rest of Canada will do just fine...hint, it's all connected.
you canadians complain too much.....come to Australia, put a sock on your cock and lay in the sun. All good here/
The Tylers must post this as a top story.
Internet sees Vladimir Putin's face in flock of birds over New York Cityhttp://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/internet-sees-vladimir-putin-s-face-in-f...
Is Big Brother Vladimir Putin watching us from above?
We've seen the Russian president shirtless on a horse, calmly stroking a leopard and flooring a Judo black belt. Has Russia's king of masculine poses found a way to get a swarm of flying birds to soar into a formation of his face?
This shit is on like Yellen's thong, bitchez..
DOWN-VOTE FOR THE VISUAL
The thing that totally pisses me off about Zero Hedge is that I'm compelled to read all the comments before I can hit Spankwire.com.
Damn you, damn you all to hell!
poet for the times
Does anyone have any thoughts on moving from the US to Canada? My mother is from Canada and has dual US/Canadian citizenship. We recently found out that by Canadian law her 1st generation of children are considered Canadian citizens. Long story short Ive recently confirmed Canadian citizenship and obtained a Canadian passport and a social insurance card. Will Canada fare better in the coming economic collapse??? Any ideas? Your comments would be greatly appreciated...
No. Period. The end.
Most countries will be better than the US when SHTF. The US has the best armed police, the most prisons (including empty ones ready to be filled), the most institutional violence and the largest ultrapoor/dependent population among "developed" countries. It is the one that has gone the furthest in this current syncretism between the two principal 20th-century ideologies, fascism and communism. So it's there the fall will be the hardest. Paradoxically, it is also from the US that a new era of individual liberty may arise.
Yet most of the US has a better climate for producing food and keeping one's dwelling warm in the winter. That's not to say that Canada cannot support somebody who wants to live on a homestead, but options are more limited, and let us face it: The skills for homesteading are lost to most of us in the developed world.
In reality, few can even cook their own food, much less grow it. A dependent society surrenders it survival skills.
incompetence is a badge of honor to many, many people today especially the youth. they idolize and mimic celebrity who need a personal assistant to wipe their ass. idiots with little dogs in their over-sized purses, giant sunglasses, super high heels, mani/pedicures. highest order skill: blow jobs?
We have at least one person here at Child Protective Services who's job is not to go in and take kids, but to go in and teach basic skills to new parents, such as how to cook a basic meal and how to wash clothes. Pretty sad.
People flip out that I can make my own hominy. I love technology, but I also love to figure out how people did things prior to our current days of high technology. The more I learn, the more I understand just how smart our ancestors really were. I love learning how Roman and Greek technology worked. Often they found simple solutions to problems that we think could not be solved without giant machines powered by diesel and hydraulics. We talk about going back to the stone age via financial collapse, WWIII, etc... on here, and I have one thing to say about stone technology: It is not as simple as it looks. I'm to the point now that I want to learn flint knapping just for the pleasure of learning it.
That's all good, but hominy??? Better to continue on to grits (with brown sugar and butter). Oh and the Greeks and Romans, they had slaves, lots of'em! Try hand chiseling stone all day.
Turning corn into hominy frees up the niacin for your body to absorb, and posole kicks ass on top of that.
"Try hand chiseling stone all day."
Without safety glasses!
(no plastics in those days)
Ishi (the last "wild" indian) had some method for getting stone chips out of his eye when flint knapping. I've only read about it and fortunately have never had to attempt it.
Nothing like making an atlatl to bring down the neighborhood mastadon. What's old will be new again.
The funnest part of flint napping is to go to some desolated area, here I'm in the Mojave Desert, and nap a couple rough drafts, leaving everything in place. Toss a bit of sand over it for effect.
Totally fucks up EVERYTHING on the enviro's agenda.
Once made a clay doll, baked it in a fire wrapped in foil with a 'spear' through it's chest. Dropped it on a ledge in a desert channel. Haven't heard any result so far.
But flint napping where it shouldn't have occurred, that's totally a fucking win.
They're going to find that clay doll of yours, carbon date it as being 20,000 years old, then speculate on what it means and who made it.
If you were smart, you should have inscribed 'Old Phart' in it using any language except English, you would be famous forevermore but no one except you would know who you are :)
i like to toss washers on the beach for the "treasure hunters" with their metal detectors to find
When I first came to the USSA I was amazed at how much pussy I got because of my incredible ability to cook....french fries. No shit. Chicks were universally awed by it.
For stone age, you need stones, ones that are useful for knapping. Most aren't. Where's your closest flint quarry? I have no clue. I seriously doubt whether there's any flint to be found in most of the US, it was all used up ...by the stone age guys. Do you know where you can go to pick up copper or iron nuggets? You can't, all the surface stuff has long since been exhausted. You need to dig down a couple of miles to get it.
We won't go back to stone age, we'll go back to pre-stone age if full collapse happens. Starting over again.
copper nuggets? that would be Michigan's UP.
I bring back lots of flint every time I go to San Antonio. The vast majority of people wouldn't know an arrowhead or skinning tool if it was cutting their throat.
Flint was traded all over North America. In Mexico and Central America they used obsidian more. This can be obtained very easily.
"When I first came to the USSA I was amazed at how much pussy I got because of my incredible ability to cook....french fries."
So that's my problem! Please proivde your recipe.
I’d move to the North Shore of Lake Winnipeg.
It gets a bit frosty up there, but you won’t have to worry about the homies when the SHTF.
And you can be energy independent if you like chopping wood and have solar.
Actually, energy independence is not optional there.
A short 500 mile trip down to Winnipeg for provisions every 4 months or so would be necessary.
You will certainly need a high clearance 4WD with a block heater as well as a snowmobile.
A light aircraft with interchangeable pontoons and skis would make things a lot more convenient.
"I’d move to the North Shore of Lake Winnipeg."
Jesus, why not just send the poor guy to Inuvik?
+100 Thats what I was thinking!! Fuck - Speaking of Winnipeg, they had a brutal 16 week stretch of -25/-35 the winter before last. I remember being at the airport going through security. A guy in front of me, woman behind. I had just come back in from outside having a dart changing planes - it was near the end of March. It was so fucking cold! And the thing was, was that the sun was high in the horizon! It was mid fucking day! Bright as hell! the contradicition couldn't be more apparent! And I froze my ass for a 3 minute smoke! Anyways in the line up, I couldn't help but remark that "holy shit its cold here." Guy turns around - "yeah - been pretty much like this since November." "Fuck really"? "oh yeah - get this - half the city's water pipes burst". "holy fuck - peoples residences", "fuck no, the city's infrastructure!" Its been so cold for so long, the frost cracked the normal frost line depth down to the water mains - now there's a shit load of folks without water." Woman says, "yeah, I cross country ski - and I haven't been out yet once this year because its too cold."
To my knowledge, Winnipeg gets that weird crazy bitchin cold weather that is unrelenting like nowhere else in the country. Not even the Knife gets it that bad for that long.
Q: “Jesus, why not just send the poor guy to Inuvik?”
A: Too congested.. urban sprawl and all that.
Re Winnipeg cold… That’s why they have plug-in stations for block heaters all over the place there.
Some hotels there look like the wild west with hitching posts that sport electric outlets for the heaters.
I wish everyone would move to the Tundra.
The skills for homesteading are not lost, especially if you move to an area where there are other homesteaders. We learned from each other, and hardly anybody starts with all the skills needed as you build a homestead. One summer many moons ago, we would have a concrete party somewhere in the community every Saturday - usually foundations, though we also did one pool. One guy really knew concrete, and we took turns working with him on the rental mixer. There are still good books about how to build your own home - Canadian government put out one of the best ones. But trust me, NOBODY moved out here having all the skills needed to homestead. Now I've got 'em, but I'm an old man - it is a process of learning stuff over a number of years. A certain amount of intellectual flexibility is neccesary, and the ability to laugh at and learn from your mistakes, and you will make plenty, is required.
A side benefit - most of us never had to go into debt to the bank to get our place built. Another side benefit, my three kids are strong, self-reliaant adults doing well in the world, and they respect their old man for raising them independent.
Believe in yourself, be prepared for a couple three hard years. My grandparents and great-grandparents were homesteaders, you may have somebody back there that did the same. If they did, you can too. If they didn't, you can be the first.
They're lost to most of us, not all of us. In a SHTF scenario, the people who are actually doing it probably aren't going to want to be teachers until things settle down quite a bit due to self preservation instincts.
One of the best episodes ever covering the "technology trap" most of the developed world is in. An excerpt:
James Burke's Connections
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sb7bOljBAQ
Don't really need the plow, though, unless you plan to restart civilization.
Jumping from the fryingpan into the fire.
Suggest you bring a fire extinguisher when you move north.
For those moving to Canada:
If a Bear Charges You
http://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/bsdeter.htm
"If a Bear Charges You"
Most of the time I just pay up.
You forgot
at 10 yards you empty your magazine, best you can, into its chest and head. Then use the rifle to club the bear into submission.
DON'T FUCK WITH BEARS.
Everyone carries a 12 gauge with slugs working out in the bush.
The farther away from the Free Sh!t Army, the better. The Canadians I've met are civilized acting, like US whites who grew up before the 1970's.
We have our free shit army, have no doubt.
They aren't nearly as in your face about it though.
Stay out of the big cities and you'll do fine.
Outside of Canada people have only pink dreams about Canada. You can live at limit of powerty in no SHTF situation however, if SHTF better stay away.
With 6+ months of winter/cold seasson Canada is going to burn very fast its resources and then if you are not so much into eating human flesh you'll
either starve or/and be eaten.
The cold is a very good point. Hadn't thought of that.
If i could choose i'll choose temperated well balanced sligthly in the warm zone US areas close to mountains, forests and rivers but with sufficient agricultural potential.
There you have at hand all the resources which were proven enough for the collonist to survive pretty well. Also, if by luck a small city or military base not very far with a decent hospital.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJMeTmdfNWk
This is an honest question- if nuclear war is in the cards, how long can a person safely eat radioactive agriculture? If it matters much, the "lower profile" might be worth the extra split logs.
Eating fallout is a sure fire way to get cancer. Prolonged exposure to radiation, especially sources inside your body, is going to be worse than one big, but not fatal, external dose. Strontium 90 is a big one that you don't want to eat because it gets into your bones, and it is in fallout. The bottom line is, if there is fallout in a field, you either need to move on and find another place to grow your food, or you need to figure out how to clean the fallout up.
"Or you need to figure out how to clean the fallout up."
Just don't ask the Japanese for advice...
Myself? I'm reading "TM31-200-1 Department of the Army Technical Manual, Unconventional Warfare Devices and Techniques, References." from Headquarters, Department of the Army, 1966 (price marked 'Grocery" 3 for 0.10) Published April 5, 1966. I have this physical book.
http://www.amazon.com/Unconventional-Warfare-Techniques-References-31-200-1/dp/0975900978
I suggest everyone secure a physical copy. It may be a handy guide.
Page 15
GELLED FLAME FUELS--ANIMAL BLOOD SYSTEMS
Description: Animal blood can be used in combination with salt, sugar, or other additive to gel gasoline for use as a flame fuel that will adhere to target surfaces. The strained blood and gasoline are mixed in a container and the salt or other additive stirred until thickening occurs.
Comments: This technique was tested. It is effective.
Caution: Infection may be caused if animal blood gets into an open wound.
Reference:
TM 31-210, Improvised Munitions, See V, No. 47
TM 31-201-1, Unconventional Warfare Devices and Techniques, para 0303
Read this book and you'll soon learn it's actually possible to old school them all.
and you wonder why the FBI / ATF comes knocking on your door so often
I think the Ozarks would be a pretty good bet.
"Mountaineers Are Always Free"
If you do end up in a cold place like Canada, boreal forest primarily, I would recommend reading Mors Kochanski's "Bushcraft" ("Northern Bushcraft" if you want an older copy used). Pretty much the best collection of survival info for cold areas, and one of the best overall. It's probably the best book for most of the less populated American states as well.
But, yeah, there's probably a reason America became ten times more populated than Canada
You have it exactly backwards.
In a SHTF scenario the die-off up here will be fast compared to down south. We'll be busy rebuilding while you teletubbies are still fighting zombies.
Cold is your friend. Ice and snow are your best defense.
I too have thought of this. People freezing their asses off are less likely to go out on loot, and those who do go out on loot in freezing temperatures should be easier targets.
Think you have it arse forward.
The big killers in a SHTF will be the sanitary diseases noboby in the west even thinks
about anymore.Not so much of a problem in a cold climate.Except in your two weeks of summer.s/
Without time to substantiate my opinion, I do believe the U.S. will get hit hardest... and generally metropolitan areas worse than rural.
But destiny can have strange twists. Maybe if you stay you'll save someone's life. Sometimes the heart knows best...
You'll def be able to bug out more easily. Beyond that it's hard to say. America has tens of millions of welfare recipients who are a dollar crisis away from rioting on the streets of every metro in the States. I'd probably take my chances in Canada if I had family/friends there.
Yes, Canada has a soft socialist touch. They don't have that American hard capitalist 'freeze in the dark' idealism they resort to when everyone decides to play king of the castle
When the EBT cards quit working and the disability checks stop coming, the natives in Detroit are going to stream across the Detroit River in canoes with the war drums beating. The residents of Windsor, Ontario had better arm themselves and prepare for the coming onslaught.
fellas, just grab your rifles and take care of business- heck we'll even help you by giving the fucking dead beats a nice lead going away present.
In the event of a supply chain breakage, any urban area that doesn't have a nearby supply of food and water will get ugly really quickly, and urban areas in Canada are no different. Could you survive homesteading in one of the areas of Canada that is a loooong way from urban centers with no safety net? The answer to that question is the answer to your question. To me, Canada is a place where some of the crops that I know how to grow don't have enough growing season days. In general warmer climates give you more options for growing food.
"To me, Canada is a place where some of the crops that I know how to grow don't have enough growing season days."
Learn to hunt.
I know how to hunt. You are not going to survive on hunting alone.
Especially when millions of amateurs are out there whacking a haunch off a deer and then shooting another one two days later. The wildlife populations will be massacred in short order and will then take decades to recover. Particularly when there is no scientific game management to assist in that recovery.
On the brighter side, that effect will be most pronounced near major population centers. No food implies no gasoline. If the ensuing insanity of what supply chains breaking could be tempered in ranching states, they may fare a lot better. Cattle can still be driven off of the back of a horse.
Plenty of woods there.
At least the VZ.58 (with limited pinned magazines) still has some chance of being legal.
It will take a while for all the animals to be eaten there, esp. since the Chinese VISA spiggot is being twisted closed. The average Chinese out in the country will eat anything that moves across their path. Having said that the Wealthy Chinese in Canada that wanted VISAs bought any house in their path, in order to get that VISA.
Canada has fewer people. More space. More lakes. More wilderness. Fewer police. Figure it out.
and it has lots of more cold season, like double the areas i find a good fit for post SHTF in USSA. In Canada you must plan to become a hunter gatherer instead of a farmer.
Except that is a total myth - agricultural output is almost equal to that of the US - with a tenth of the population.
false - total myth what you say. it is due to industrialization of the agriculture. in the case of a SHTF scenario i wish you good luck going to the prairies and trying to survive as a farmer.
OK I have to weigh in.
Here's the deal.
In Canada, if you're going to move here, the number one thing you have to worry about, in my opinion, is learning how to stay fucking warm through the Canadian winter. Learning how to cope with it - and christ - if you have to work out side, put some fucking durable clothes on. Layers. It can be -30 for weeks at a time, and in places like Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, where the humidity is huge - you feel like you're going to fucking die.
It is winter here - November to end of March - if you're lucky. Its not a gradual change either. Its fucking BAM! And, unless you're along the 49th, you aint swinging golf clubs till fucking May capice?
Annual snow fall varies and I know various places in America have been getting an enormous amount of precipitation that has been said to be unusual. Fact is, that shit is normal for us. Point being, if you intend to do any travel - for work or whatever - then you're gonna wanna get a fucking truck - 4x4 because a two wheel drive is just plain and simple no fucking good up here. And you only need to experience absolute road chaos and helplessness once to really have an appreciation for what I am saying here - get a fucking 4x4. Also, there are a lot of asshats up here that do 60, 70, 80 mph on the major freeways when road conditions warrant otherwise. It doesn't mean you have to do the same - because you will die trying to keep up. These guys are seasoned veteran Canadian winter drivers - its like fucking skiing to them.
Next thing. Don't know how much shovelling you do down there, but be prepared to bust a nut, on average, at least once a week. Last year was a fucking anomoly. It was fucking awesome. And they say El Nino is going to provide a similar winter to last. Don't let a couple of years fool ya! Normal is not El fucking Nino. Also, shovel your neighbor out once in a while. It goes a long way I find plus you get some much needed exercise to compensate for the ass time you're gonna spend wrapped up in a blanket huddled by the fire (furnace) trying to fucking stay warm.
Next thing. Its fucking dark up here! And the further north ya go the fucing worse it gets. Some people like it. I think it sucks because you're always looking for shit because you can't see fuck all for at least 16 hours of the day. Lotta peple get these vitamin D lamps and they shove their face into those babies for hours at a time to avoid depression. Its simple. Get used to the idea that you'll be going to work and coming home from work - in the fucking dark.
Every once in a while we get reprieve - a warm front - or if you are in the south - a chinook. Cherish these days. For one thing, everybody is in a way better fucking mood, if nothing else because they can put a light coat on that doesn't get you all jammed up when you're trying to put your fucking seat belt on. Suddenly everybody is outside and you remember you have neighbors because you can go for months - MONTHS without seeing anybody outside when you get home at night. Oh sure, there are festivals - depending where you live and shit, and then there is hockey - peewee, bantam, midget, junior, triple AAA and probably a shitload more that I have forgotten, and then there is curling and of course skiing and shit. But this is all Point A, to Point B driving. I promise you the rest of the time people are hunkered down just trying to stay fucking warm.
Hey, I live up here. Been so all my life. AND I STILL FUCK UP every year - don't dress warm enough, or forgot to change the wiper fluid to -40. There is nothing worse than trying to keep your winshield clean in -20 and you're on a stretch from Wabasca to Slave Lake, and the fucking big trucks are pummeling you with shit and you can't see fuck all. You're pulling over every 10 minutes to wash your windshield with ice cold sharp ditch snow. yeah. Fucking awesome.
I hate winter here. And yet I know a lot of people would disagree with this. But, they'd only be qualifying what I have told you by saying stupid shit like "oh its not that bad if you blah blahb blah blah." Well thats true, but its making sure one accomplishes the blah blah blah - otherwise winter in Canada is a fucking nightmare to anybody who has ever really experienced it.
One final note. The summers - are fucking awesome. In fact, there is no place in the world I'd rather be. The days are bitching long in the summer and there is a million things to do. Some of the best fishing - in all parts of the country. Tons of shit to do. And miles of space to do it in. For sure there are one-offs where it can be cool, but, it can also get fucking toasty here too. Bottom line, I fucking love it here in the summer. And the ONLY thing I do not like about it besides the fucking mosquitos, is that its too short. WAY too fucking short.
So there you have it.
Good luck.
Amen, brother! You have to have a spot for your 4x4 or subaru to park or you spend 15-20 minutes scaping the frozen shit off your windows. Sometimes 2-3 times a day. Most people have remote starts now, but I'm a stubborn MF'r. Only reasons I love winter? Snowboarding Silver Mt. and the change in scenery.
Like you said, even in spring and fall you can get 3-4 weeks of cloud cover and not see blue skies EVER during that time.
So come on up and keep me company. I love to see the dork Californians head home w/ their tail between their leggs every 3-4 years when we get 250+ inches of powder in the valley. Its like driving in snow tunnels. And you better have a few weeks of food (and everything else) when power goes out. And a wood pile. My neihbor stacks 4-8 cords every year. He is pushing 60. One tough man. Outside at night w/ a light strapped to his hat year round.... working FOR FUN. Crazy ass. My wife bakes him sweets and he gives us produce.
Wouldn't have it any other way. :)
Oh christ. The fucking scraping! Gezzus I forgot that! Make sure your fucking wipers are up at night, or, the next morning, your carving them out, or spending 20 minutes idling with high defrost - pick your poison. Oh yeah, and how about the Novemeber snow that melts then fucking freezes. Too much for salt. So ya gotta chip chip chip and can take an hour just to SORT OF clean your walk. Last year, November 21, it snowed, then melted then froze. Seemed okay. Until I hit the garage door opener and nearly tore the entire fucking motor and chain assembly clean off as the rubber seal on the bottom of the door was stuck to the concrete. And I had to get to the airport - fucking door wide open - had to beat it down to get it to close. Then had to race to get to the airport - which invites all sorts of risk. fucking whiteknuckling it all the way.
Thats the shit I'm talking about. Winter up here is like a constant endeavor of trying to solve puzzles under duress. You can plan for shit all you want, or think you need, but, it dont fucking matter. Some other shit will always happen. But, you're right. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Nice to hear some 'reality' about livin'-up-north, Pareto.
I figure you're somewhere in the area north of Calgary, Alberta.
I'd like to mention that most americans, perhaps +90%, couldn't 'make-it' in the canadian countryside.
Too dumb, too ignorant and too lazy; hopelessly disfunctional.
I grew up outside of NYC in NJ, left the States in 1978 to work in the desert of SaudiArabia, moved to Sweden 1981.
Besides living in Helsinki for 3 years, I've lived about 75km due NW of Stockholm.
My wife is from Rovaniemi Finland, on the Arctic Circle.
Long story short, where you're living sounds very familiar to Lappland.
I can quarentee folks that if you ain't tuff as nails, you wouldn't make it.
I've learned and am proud of it; I'm a novice in comparision to natives but, I'd do well if my health held up.
My oldest daughter and 2 granddaughters are living in Västerbotten.
Her husband's family has been living up there for 100's of years.
I'm glad to say they all have a very good chance of surviving the coming chaos.
Anyway, Good Luck there in Canada.
btw, where I live, november is probably the worst month of the year; it's dark & raining most of the time, windy too. Even the natives think it sucks.
Cheers X-
But, but, but... global warming. lol
What I've learned about the cold is you want a wicking layer, different layers of wool depending on temperature and work output, and wind protection. Modern stuff is ok for a wind layer if you don't have to do any serious work, but if you're in the woods and around fire you want a cotton canvas anorak. The advice is generally that cotton is deadly in winter, but it's fine as an outer layer for cutting the wind. Settlers and natives used the material from sails, it's extremely tough, breathes (unlike modern fabric), and dries out easily.
Plus you can make your own for 50 bucks rather than spend 800 on a Canada Goose.
For footwear you want mukluks/winter moccasins with several pairs of wool socks (you'd be surprised how much better walking is with light footwear), or something very similar if you need a tough sole. Above -15C or so (Around 4F I think) you want pak boots because even the snow is wet, called wet-cold. As well, this is a point where you most likely want tin-oil pants or some sort of slicker rather than the untreated cotton canvas anorak.
You'll want a sleeping bag for emergency purposes. Generally you want a bag about 10 degrees below what your expected worst conditions are. For cheap brands go 20-25 below the rating (not even recommended actually, but if you don't have the money you need something). For respected brands in synthetic go 15 below their rating, and down 10 below their rating. You want that extra in case of bad conditions, anomalies, or in case you aren't well fed. It takes a while to acclimatize to being able to sleep in the cold, and learning how to cover your head without getting the bag wet is the most important part below -20. I like to use wool around my head so I don't get the down wet. I like Western Mountaineering and MEC. Feathered Friends are supposed to be good, and Wiggys for synthetic (haven't tried these two, just heard from others).
I spend lots of time out in the woods in winter, I like it and fall the best. I agree it is hard though, but would add that most people are taking it pretty easy actually, as they go from heated home to heated truck to heated business. You can acclimatize yourself to the cold a fair bit, strangely enough by bathing in the snow.
I find open areas with wind are the worst. And for heat, nothing compares to wood. Everything else feels like shit. Won't have much choice when SHTF anyways. Learn your stove fires and outdoor emergency fires (like the long fire).
I live in Ottawa and one does NOT need a 4x4 to be mobile in CANADA. All you need is a good front wheel drive winter beater. My Monte Carlo is low profile with All Season touring radials, and I never get stuck. Moreover, I never got stuck with my GMC two wheel rear drive automatic either.
All you need are good Light Truck All Season Radials and you are good to go.
So goes the last ottawan ...
Agree -let's stop fighting useless their world countries for the benefit of Israel and the banksters -and instead invade canada. I think we can beat them. I'm concerned though that Putin and the Russians may ally with them and take out Alaska.
Michigan = Canada's Florida.
Canada = Chinese extraction colony.
Canada has a much greater percentage of its population living someplace other than the homeland than any other developed nation ( > 10% of the population)
Look, and I don't know how to say this without sounding harsh, but here goes...
You are looking for Canada to take care of you in an emergency, not for you to help take care of Canada when the chips are down. Which, to me, suggests that you are considering such a move for the wrong reasons.
My own personal view is that people who try to run away and hide from the coming UNIVERSAL MADNESS will only die tired. Find a spot with good food production, excellent fields of fire, and some reliable friends, family, and neighbors who will stand and fight with you. If that happens to be in the Great White North, then so be it. But you have to bring something to their table other than another mouth to feed.
Your survival depends ultimately on yourself, not on any government anywhere. Stick with your friends rather than trusting to the kindness of total strangers in another land.
+1(,000,000)
I was told that TEl Aviv its the best place to pass the next economic reset.
Yes they are recession proof -we can be in total economice collapse, have civil war and be nuked by Russia and we'll still send billions to the jews - both our crooked Congress and the dumbass Christian Zionists. Israel is where you want to be -if you are a Jew -others are not welcome unless you are a beautiful Ukranian sex slave kidnapped and sent to israel for the enjoyment of the locals.
You probably won't have to fight in a country wide anarchic civil war here, unless you go to Toronto, eh?
True; Toronto is going to descend in ethnic/religious war - in my circle we call Toronto the Babel 2.0 it is such a mess of mix of ethnicities so different one of another carrying historical hate between them
which when SHTF will become way bigger than middle east.
My Granny was from Canada. She moved to Australia.
i know a lot of europeans who came here in the last 10 to 15 years who decided to go back to europe.
The hardworking europeans moved to Australia in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The ones coming over now are well and truly zombies of the welfare state. No wonder they are returning home.
not true - they are not not hard working but they lerned the difference between living like a slave and living like a human with dignity - it is what imported people from south asia don;t know
Canada is toast for next 30 years. Stay where you are.
agree, canada is going to be a safe place for small communities of an significant majority of n*th generational canadians with euro-caucasian background but for the Babel 2.0 enclaves like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal it is going to be bloody
yeah. Canada would still have some communities with a high proportion of Northern European genetics. Those communities should do fine.
Well, Canada is considerably freer now, and is much less likely to devolve into a totalitarian police state.
I think it will survive the top half of a crisis due to all the natural resources but when the dictator rises in the US, Canada will be the first to be annexed
"when the dictator rises in the US"
In case you haven't notced He's been here a while now.
I mean the real cruel one. The one that takes away the TV sets
"Will Canada fare better in the coming economic collapse??? Any ideas?"
Well, the article says Canada will have no choice "We fully expect the Bank of Canada to eventually cut interest rates to 0% and start a money printing program as well."
Start????
OUTRAGEOUS Canadian Base Currency Expansion - Mike MaloneyIts old data, we're over 1.2 Trillion last time I checked.
less guns in the streets, but lots of gun ownership as in the US.
Everyone knows what is wrong but everyone harbours a secret illusion that we can return to the pre-GFC paradigm.
Everyone knows what is wrong but they expect polticians and government to fix it.
Everyone knows what is wrong but few are making the personal changes to their lifestyles and investments that are necessary.
Even the market knows what is wrong but the bankers won't let it do what it does best.
The entire world has become TBTF. Let's see who flinches (i.e. cries uncle) first.
Exactly right, but it's more like a mexican stand-off.
Sweden has a HUGE housing bubble
They are also importing people. I have been a regular visitor for decades, just returned from a week there. The large and increasing number of North African, arab and afghan immigrants is very noticeable and not confined to Stockholm or even large towns. I have nothing against the newcomers, but it is still sad to see the changes which inevitably mean yet another country will be more easily divided and ruled for minority benefit. One of the stand out features of Sweden for me has been the large middle class and relatively small upper tier of uber wealthy / very poor. Signs of this changing are visible now.
Sweden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7IaCcAJQwY
Muslims, so many muslims.