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"They Have To Go"; Trump Vows To Deport All Illegal Immigrants
"You’re going to love me on immigration," Donald Trump told a crowd of reporters and fans who gathered in Iowa to hear the billionaire speak after he landed in a $7 million Sikorsky.
Trump, who drew sharp criticism in some circles after suggesting that Mexican immigrants were responsible for rape and drug addiction in the US, hasn’t backed down on calls for a tougher stance on immigration and to be sure, some voters share his views, even if they don’t necessarily agree with the rather uncouth way in which they were presented.
Trump’s call for the construction of a "wall" along America’s southern border is diametrically opposed to President Obama’s push to shield nonviolent immigrants from deportation. An executive order from the President designed to speed up efforts to overhaul immigration drew sharp criticism from Republican governors who moved to block the order earlier this year.
On Saturday, Trump told NBC’s Chuck Todd that if he were elected in 2016, Obama’s executive order would be immediately rescinded. In an exclusive interview given aboard Trump’s private 757, the GOP frontrunner also told Todd that he would deport all illegal immigrants. “They have to go,” he insisted. Here’s more:
Donald Trump would reverse President Obama's executive orders on immigration and deport all undocumented immigrants from the U.S. as president, he said in an exclusive interview with NBC's Chuck Todd.
"We're going to keep the families together, but they have to go," he said in the interview, which will air in full on NBC's "Meet the Press" this Sunday.
Pressed on what he'd do if the immigrants in question had nowhere to return to, Trump reiterated: "They have to go."
"We will work with them. They have to go. Chuck, we either have a country, or we don't have a country," he said.
Speaking on Trump's gilded private plane as it idled on a runway in Des Moines, Iowa, the real-estate mogul and Republican presidential frontrunner offered the first outlines of the immigration policy proposals he'd implement from the Oval Office.
Trump said, to begin, "we have to" rescind Obama's executive order offering those brought to the U.S. illegally as children — known as DREAMers — protection from deportation, as well as Obama's unilateral move to delay deportation for their families as well.
"We have to make a whole new set of standards" for those immigrating to the US.
While short on particulars, that's about as unequivocal as you can get when it comes to a clearly communicated policy stance.
The interesting thing to note here is that as we revealed in June, "since the start of the Second Great Depression, the US has added 2.3 million 'foreign-born' workers, offset by just 727K 'native-born'. This means that the 'recovery' has almost entirely benefited foreign-born workers, to the tune fo 3 to 1 relative to native-born Americans."
Because our analysis of what we called the "illegal immigrant recovery" seems particularly apt here, we'll excerpt the relevant passages below.
* * *
How does the BLS determine a foreign-born worker? This is its definition:
The foreign born are persons who reside in the United States but who were born outside the country or one of its outlying areas to parents who were not U.S. citizens. The foreign born include legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents such as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. The survey data, however, do not separately identify the numbers of persons in these categories.
In other words, the "foreign-born" catogory includes both legal and illegal immigrants unfortunately, the BLS is unable, or unwilling, to distinguish between the two.
As a result, it may well be, that the surprise answer why America's labor productivity (which recently posted its worst 6 month stretch in 22 years) has plummeted in recent years and certainly months, confounding economists who are unable to explain why "solid" labor growth does not translate into just as solid GDP growth...
... and why wage growth has gone precisely nowhere, is because the vast majority of all jobs since December 2007, or 75% to be specific, have gone to foreign-born workers, a verifiable fact. What is unknown is how many of these millions of "foreign-born" jobs have gone to illegal immigrant who are perfectly willing to work hard, and yet whose wage bargaining power is absolutely nil (after all they are happy just to have a job) thereby leading to depressed wages for native-born workers in comparable jobs, resulting in wage growth which over the past 8 years has been non-existent.

Incidentally, this is the same lack of wage growth which has allowed the Fed to pump some $4 trillion into the stock market. Because far more than merely a domestic politics issues, the lack of wage growth and downstream inflation, is precisely what has permitted the Fed to maintain QE as long as it has.
In other words, how many illegal workers cross the US border, may be the biggest variable shaping US monetary policy at the moment! And, in thought-experiment land, the more porous US immigration policy the longer the Fed will be allowed to maintain its ZIRP/QE experiment, and the higher the S&P will rise.
Could it be that illegal immigration is the best friend of that 0.1% of the US population which has benefited exclusively from the Fed's relentless injection of liquidity into risk assets via either ZIRP of QE?
Note: this is not meant to come down on either side of the illegal immigration debate: the upcoming presidential elections will do enough of that. It merely seeks to fill a gaping hole in economist models which are unable to explain or rationalize why America's seemingly "booming" jobs recovery, which is "firing on all fours" according to the BLS, is not manifesting itself in either inflationary pressures, or broad economic productivity.
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I hope he increases the legal immigration of Europeans.
Fuck no!
Trump is AWESOME. He is very black and white. He won't let the left screw his ideas with grey shit.
"We either have a country or we don't", Fuck you chuck
I wouldn't mind the legal immigration of more blonde, blue eyed Northern European women.
They have to go only if you wish to keep a US American national identity.
Let them all stay if you want a different country.
It’s a “fundamental transformation” thing.
With 50,000,000 in the country now, we are on the verge of losing it.
Thank you Insane Hussein.
Sure, deporting illegals protects natural citizens.
That's obvious to anyone except an illegal.
Obozo is an illegal.
God bless Donald Trump and keep him and his family safe from harm.
why do you feel the need to constantly post that nonsense? trump is playing you for fools. Build a giant wall, a moat full of alligators, have land mines, it won't matter. Until you dismantle the welfare state, illegals from all over the world will flood here. Just like making drugs illegal doesn't keep them off the street. As long as economic incentives exist, people will find a way to get here.
What, exactly, other than "deport the illegals and build a wall" are the postitions trump holds that you all like so much? He sounds like fucking john mccain on foriegn policy and wants to imprison snowden...
Pretty much all of his posts are pure nonsense. It's almost as if there's an agenda at work here.
Paid troll, or self-propelled tool? You decide.
TWO CHOICES AMERICA:
1) Learn to speak Spanish
2) Start shooting the criminal invaders....
You don't shoot the invaders.
You shoot the policy makers.
You literally shoot invaders and metaphorically shoot policy makers with the phrase "You're fired"
"...Chuck, we either have a country, or we don't have a country," he said..."
<facepalm> Er... Yeah. About that whole 'country' thing, Mr. Trump...
He's going to enforce the law??
Monster!!
On the flip side...what Trump is saying is to deport about 3.5% of the total US population (illegals are counted as part of the 319 million US population)...but these illegals are significantly younger than the population in general and their deportation will pretty much turn the US into Japan with a negative birth rate and even "greyer" coupled w/ emigration (unless Trump is simultaneously suggesting to ramp legal immigration?).
The economic impacts of a 3.5% population decline is likely in itself a recession in the short term absent their demand for housing, food, cars, etc. etc. Again on the flip side, the positive impact is likely higher wages for the native population but this may mean fewer jobs, more outsourcing, more robots, etc.
I have no dog in this fight...just thinking through the impacts either way
Also worth considering...Headwaters of US Population Growth (Mexico) Going Dry!?!
http://econimica.blogspot.com/2015/07/headwaters-of-us-population-growth.html
O/T:
Reports On Yahoo: 700 Tons Of Cyanide Stored At Tianjin Disaster Site!!!
We need more virtualized Africans to rock the vote.
Ah Trump God love him, "we either have a country or we don't have a country" sage words!
For real though, stop fucking with latin america and these unforuntate migrants won't make the (often very dangerous) trip up to the US in order to make a tiny bit of money without daily threat of being killed - and for their efforts are treated like shit by the local population they serve so well.
Most of those illegals would not stay in the U.S. if entitlements for illegals were eliminated and if automatic U.S. citizenship for their anchor babies was eliminated.
exactly. don't need a wall to do that either. Simply stop providing free EVERYTHING for all the third worlders that make it here and the problem will disappear quickly. Hell, look at europe, england especially. they are being overrun by muslims and they have a fucking ocean between them. No wall is going to do the job when laws basically incentivize people to go over it.
And, again, as a reminder, since many of you still can't comprehend this: a wall would be just as useful at keeping YOU and your family and your money IN as it is keeping others out. Rmember that
***5-10 Million Germans were deported from allied territory afer WWII***
It's Possible.
The Laws Already On the Books State Unequivocally that They Must Go!
The enforce the laws they want to enforce, then change them too. You are a criminal, they are rich.
Maybe the illegals could help build the new Deportation 12 Lane Southern Highway 1 Lane Northern Highway and help pay for their own repatriation.
Advocate deporting all of the banksters and their kinsmen... THEN I might raise an eyebrow to your "candicacy", Mr. Trump. Otherwise, my smoke detector keeps beeping.
If Trump gets into office, the facism state of America will be completed. Change you have got to believe in.
Trump doesn't have a chance in a general election with these types of policies. There just aren't enough white men left to vote for him. Say hello to my little friend Hillary. Word to your mother.
It's a competitive world. How do you know that Latin America can do OK on its own now?
That said, it's one thing we should do, to stop mixing in their business. And send their people back to them.
How do you know that Latin America can do OK on its own now?
One way to find out!
"How do you know that Latin America can do OK on its own now?"
Who fucking cares? why are we responsoible for how they do? And if you think we are, then why not just annex the place and tax the shit out of them, make all their women our bitches and take all their resources?
Hey Ham-Bone, look up the facts. Immigrant's average ages are the same as for the general population.
Thats because these immigrunts make up the general population.
Ham-Bone: If you take the time to dig into the data about illegals, you will discover that they are a net economic drain on society, and that doesn't include intangible losses like quality of life.
A few years ago, the State of Texas released a nice pretty report showing that illegals had a slight net positive economic benefit to the State. In practically the last paragraph of this 20 page report, the State admitted that they ignored the costs imposed on county and local governments by illegals. Further, nowhere in the report was the very real economic harm to individuals and private entities discussed.
I agree with Trump - they have to go.
hear hear... I'm familiar with that report and I can tell you for certain it was watered down aggressively to appeal to Hispanic voters... the real numbers tell a very different tale...
Deporting people with low IQs who do nothing but breed like rats, bring in drugs and gang warfare, and live off the welfare system are not an asset. Get rid of the Fed and install a sound money system and things will work themselves out. Women will no longer have to work and instead can stay at home and care for more than one child. I'd also send blacks back to Africa. They have been nothing but trouble since they were brought here. Let them do their whining in Africa. Send the Jews to Israel so those parasites can live off of their own for a change. I'd send Asians home as well. I can't stand people from India or China.
lol that's a lot of deportations. prob should deport the europeans too, they've been nothing but trouble as well. clean the slate, everybody out!
Yeah, well at least some of them have something to offer like the US Constitutiion, electricity, the computer, the internet, etc. What have hispanics, blacks, indians or the chinese invented of late? As to jews, they are a two-edged sword. Many are brilliant but mostly they are evil psychopaths.
Yeah, well at least some of them have something to offer like the US Constitutiion, electricity, the computer, the internet, etc. What have hispanics, blacks, indians or the chinese invented of late?
Agreed, everyone who has not been directly connected to the invention of something on par with electricity, internet or us constitution needs to booted. All fucking useless eaters.
I trust 100% of zh americans will show themselves to the door promptly! self-deportation needs to real bitchez, for the good of 'merica
James_Cole is a clueless leftist troll who lives in England based on his past posts. The Muslim and third world hordes who've invaded that country will soon be deporting the likes of him.
James Cole is a jew. Enough said.
Yeah, des jews is a nuisance, with their superior jew brains and jew sorcery. Recap, mexicans too dumb and breed like rats, jews too smart makin' the white power crowd look like idiots. Gotta deport both. Only acceptable americans are stupid fat white ones who breed like rabbits (not rats! duggars breed like rabbits gawddamnit!) USA! USA!
Shouldn't you be in Israhell killing Palestinians?
You are confused, that would be the Likud party - your ideological twins. They hate people like me almost as much as they hate the muslems, jus like u!
The costs of expatriation are exorbinant, James Cole. Trust me that if we could leave America then many of us will willingly go and take our skills with us.
America and the British Empire can starve to death. In fact I want to help it along.
Good riddance.
The costs of expatriation are exorbinant, James Cole. Trust me that if we could leave America then many of us will willingly go and take our skills with us.
When the going gets tough, immediately cut and run. Real admirable position right there!
Meanwhile, the people who are risking death to travel into the usa to escape violence / corruption at home (often directly linked to decades long US foreign policy) and make a better life for themselves and their families are the bad guys...
James-underscore-Cole: in one post you tell us to self deport like the Indians, Chinese, Blacks and Mexicans. Now when someone takes dreck seriously, you insult their manhood with cut and run crap.
Are you two different people posting under one user name, or just a punk trying to piss people off?
How about refrain from posting if you can't keep consistent?
I've considered using a sarc tag in the past, but have instead decided that most people on here seem to be aware when I'm being sarcastic and those who aren't... well..
My rule of thumb, people who post idiotic racist shit I tend to respond to sarcastically. People who write stuff more seriously (tall tom) i respond generally more seriously inkind.
I get tall toms position, shit government running a country into the ground makes the people feel helpless and outlook bleak. But at the same time, americans have had it pretty good for the past 80 yrs compared to most of the world and times being tough doesn't mean things can't be turned around.
As far as 'illegal immigrants' - those coming up to the US to flee dire conditons and willing to work hard to improve their lives shouldn't be shit all over. Like it or not they make huge contributions to the american economy and there's lots of ways to deal with the various underlying problems. As (some) others have pointed out - illegal immigration is a symptom of a larger problem.
Having more immigration is also probably better than sending jobs just across the border where work conditions / pay are third world, that's the real scandal to my mind.
>those coming up to the US to flee dire conditons and willing to work hard to improve their lives shouldn't be shit all over.
Allow me to urinate all over that statement.
Have you never once questioned why these people never stay in their own country and fight/die to improve it? Personally, imho, it makes them cowards, because nothing beats running away from a problem then meeting it head on.
And for Gods sake don't hire any Irish!!
Hey! what did I do?
"I have no dog in this fight..."
If you are an American, and this is your country.............YES you do have a dog in this fight.........
I was born in the United States. By geographical accident I am a Tax Slave here in America.
I have no dog in this fight. I cannot care any less.
I rebuke any allegiance to the United States Government and surrender no sovereign right or privledge.
Oh no! I heard that "shit happens". Do you have a PayPal address I can send a few dollars to to aid your escape from the Evil Empire? Bitcoin perhaps?
They are extremely low productive people though. When they're 40 and can't push a lawn mower any more, they're done.
They are extremely low productive people though. When they're 40 and can't push a lawn mower any more, they're done.
It's Wall Street that's the problem, not immigrants.
Blame the poor, not the rich, for the ills of a society that's run 110% by the rich! What a pathetic dumb fucking moronic way to look at things.
There is more at work here.
Trump really, really, really hates to lose.
Years ago when he raised the issue of whether or not Obama was a citizen he was ridiculed and shot down by the very "reporters" that now want to interview him. Trump knows the only way to resolve this issue is to become President and get access to the real information. Confident that it will prove his assertion of non-citizenship he can cancel-out everything that was signed and issued by Obama as illegal and therefore null, void and of no effect.
A win-win, first for Trump, second for the country!
I've had that thought, myself, but my tinfoil hat kept it contained. Seriously, I hope to see some of our most prominant politicians wearing orange or black and white horizontal stripes after the Donald is elected.
Just picture Hi-liar-y wearing a bright orange one piece pantsuit.
6.5 Creedmore is becoming more popular every day. All in jest, not really, yes really, just kidding, not, of course I'm kidding, not I am not kidding.
Yup, its silly to me that we spend all these resources helping to defend the borders of other countries like israel and saudi arabia meanwhile ours are basically a free for all.
Call me cynical but remember Obama's campaign? He was ALL things to all Lefties.
Here comes Trump... so far, a Righties wet dream...(I love his illegals "plank" even if it is just rhetorical red meat)
ever notice how amerika spirals down under both Dem and Rep admins?...
back and forth, year after year, from pillar to post, first one then the other, in a perfect simulcra of tag team rape?
Fuck trump. Fuck voting. This fucker teases riled up angry people with some bull shit scape goats, while the middle class will continue to get raped by growing wage disparity. But yeah, keep drinking the koolaid. The illegal immigrants are a symptom of the bigger fucking problem.
Wage disparity is a function of current free trade policies ( that benefit a few cronies here and tons of manufactuing workers abroad ) and expansionary monetary policy that encourages consumption over savings and investment.
Free trade is destroying american unions. As corrurpt as the unions are, they were the only check for the worker against management and ownership.
I might add that our wide open southern border also gives the mangement and ownership teams the option of relocating domestically rather than overseas to avoid unions.
As a note, I am mangement at a union business, and have never been a union employee. I once thought unions were the destruction o.f American manufacturing.
" I once thought unions were the destruction o.f American manufacturing."
Well they were. Now the jokes on them as their dues elected the very people who are allowing the destruction of the unions through pushing, allowing, supporting, enabling and encouraging unfettered migration of needy and low educated peoples across the southern border. The wages and bennies of one union worker can buy the labor of 5 or 6 illegals.
Yes, because having cheap illegal labor that will work for pennies on the dollar doesn't disrupt the very wage issue you are whining about. That he's even bringing it up should tell you something.
Whinning? Addressing a symptom as cause for the problem is whinning you dumb fuck. Ive never liked you. Trump is just check mate to obamas race division. But please, continue driving off the cliff.
You think I give a shit about you liking me?
You aren't understanding the reality of the situation. There is no stopping this train. The only way you prevent this collapse from eating you is to resecure the borders and let the nationalists cut and clean out the rot.
White Americans, what?
Nothing better to do?
Why don't you kick yourself out?
You're an immigrant too
guess we don't have a lot of White Stripe fans out there
i believe Carl is telling the truth when he says he is a yard boy
I am telling the truth. Notice that I asked a question that went unanswered, just 24 downvotes from the trump lovers. I'll ask it again
Other than 'deport all the illegals and build a wall' what are his positions on the issues typically discussed on here that you guys like so much? Where does he stand on foreign policy, on ending the fed, the war on drugs? What are the positions he holds that make y'all like him so much? I am genuinely curious what makes a libertarian/anarchist crowd love such an obvious authoritarian so much.
i love his totally awesome hairpiece
ZH is now a Yahoo board when it comes to politics. A sad and pitiful situation.
This recent Trumploving expressed by ZHers makes absolutely no sense.
I wonder how many Trumplovers hold bitcoin.
no, It doesn't make sense, and Im glad there are a few old hands here that agree, at least yall three haven't lost your minds. I guess these people just really need a hero to worship, its sad really. So far no one has really answered my question either. It seems like the same putin lovers are now falling for trump head over heels. I guess if they are so silly and naive to automatically like someone just because they make the stupid govt look stupid, they will fall for pretty much anyone.
They just can't seem to understand that it is possible to be amused/entertained by someone like trump(or putin) making people you don't like look stupid without worshiping him like they do.
So we must be stupid because we can express interest in what Trump is saying, okay gotcha.
Hey everyone you have to stop having your own opinions.
No, thats not what Im saying. Im saying you must be stupid for latching onto trump ONLY BECAUSE he says he is going to get rid of all the illegals and build a fence and ignoring every other one of his positions that are diametrically opposed to what most people on here claim to believe. If you are one of the people doing this, then yes, Im saying you are stupid, even though I typically agree with most things you post
You are a sanctimonious ass. I'll cherry pick one of your thoughts sometime and call you stupid. Obviously the support for Trump is a symptom of desparation and at this time, I am a desparate man. Desparate for anything that will jam the cogs of the PC political media machine that controls the mindset of this country.
You are mired in your own brand of Political Correctness and it does nothing for the reality of the situation at hand. Fine, preach your don't vote and what difference does it make mantra . That's your right (at least at the present), however, I can guarantee one thing. Everyone on Zero Hedge can stay home on election day and someone is still going to get elected.
While I think at this point it is a long shot that I am going to even have a chance to vote for Trump, I am going to vote. Seachange starts with one person, be it at the polling place, in the public square or on the firing line.
If you vote, you are complicit in the crimes of government.
Still plan on wasting your time?
I am complicit only if my guy gets elected. If my guy doesn't get elected does that make you complicit:)
cherry pick away. I am not mired in any kind of political correctness. you seem to be missing the point. Does he not sound just like every other neocon on pretty much every single issue? is he ANY DIFFERENT from the rest of them on ANYTHING other than his promise to deport all the illegals? that will make exactly zero differnece in the long term viability of this country. You are fucking stupid if you think he is anything other than an authoritarian with a slightly different brand
Spare me your purist libertarian crap. Most purist libertarians I have met have the luxury of spouting their ideals because they have a well feathered nest. I am not begrudging anyone there honest wealth but too many have sucked the govt tit to feather their nest.
I have worked my whole life within the mining industry, in an entreprenurial fashion. I have had my self-employed career and built up working wealth stolen by market manipulation, extreme environmentalism, extreme govt regulation and constantly increasing taxation. All the tech jobs in the mining industry are now done by mexican speaking illegals. I have become a pariah in my own land for wishing to hold on to my small piece of pie.
You say that taking a tough stance on the out of control southern border is worth nothing and will solve nothing. Well some of the items you previously stated wouldn't be fixed will be at least addressed and partly ameliorated by solving the most critical issue facing us which is the losing of our country through human invasion and its replacement by some grotesque Orweillean nightmare of a country.
Deporting all illegals is only the latest position he has stated concerning the imigration issue and by failing to point out other positions he has taken on this multi-faceted problem it is obvious you are using half-truths in your argument. A half-truth is a whole lie.
So, I will support Trump on the one issue alone. That support doesn't make me ignorant of other traits and stances he has and has stated. They are less important to me and I choose to accept that downside. Putting words in my mouth and calling me fucking stupid seems a little shrill. Perhaps the greens you keep are the ones Obama golfs on.
All these Trump supporters will be sorely disappointed, of that I am certain. They actually remind me of the Obama bots and trolls from 2008 and 2012. Ironic to say the least.
Murika...Fuck Yeah!
Sorry for rooting for the only motherfucker who will actually take some kind of positive action. Have fun waiting for Godot from your ivory tower of perfect ideas.
Yep. Just two never ending memes for the Donald lovers;
Send'em all back to Mexico (even if they aren't from there)
And
God bless the Donald and his family.
I get it, its a problem, but even if you send EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM back to wherever they came from, it wouldn't do a fucking thing about solving the debt, fixing our insane foreign policy, reigning in entitlements, etc. Its just red meat rhetoric geared towards getting idiots all fired up, and its working.
Sending everyone back is a non-starter.
Terminating benefits for non citizens with assistance to deport would help the problem without
hurting those who have made a good effort to work and contribute.
Also, I think a lot of good assimilation could be accomplished by making English the language.
No 'press 8' for whatever, no multi language official forms, English for everything.
All prior immigrants had to learn to speak the language which enforced some kind of commonality.
You are either here to be an American, or you are a tourist.
You should realize that the the presidential election is 15 months away, and primaries are 6 months away. For the sake of discussion, lets theoretically assume that Diebold will not be pre-programmed to select the President, but the votes will actually be counted. Politics is a messy and corrupt game, involving racketeering among the industrial and political crime syndicates/families. Trump must play the game, its not his ball or his playground; its the political system with all of its enormous defects. Trump has spoken out on a number of issues, and has not addressed many. Trump is not required to present his manifesto on every issue, now, that piques your curiosity. Such information will come out in due time, in 2016, if Trump is still in the game.
It's just like that tea party fad a few years ago.
What's the tea party stand for?
Send'em back to Mexico.
Who are thier leaders?
They don't have any so no one can deride them.
Outside of strict rules on immigration, what do they stand for?
Send'em all back to Mexico.
Ya i remember the tea party fad. the old tea partiers always cracked me up the most "Obamacare is socialism, we don't want your commie-care" and then everytime it came to cutting spending it was "hands of my medicare" "I paid for my social security" while being blissfully unaware of the irony of those two opposite positions
What is the conflict between demanding to be made whole on a contract that you were forced to participate, and resisting being forced into yet another? The problem is choice, or the lack of it.
Personally I think it is a mistake to demand our promised entitlements be fulfilled as it will break the back of taxpayers, and while it is a contract, as is typical for government, they have made promises on the behalf of people who had no choice in the matter, many of them not yet born.
because it is bullshit, and its always been bullshit. All of those demanding that these unfundable entitlement programs be fulfilled are really just demanding that the govt tax their children and grandchildren more and more, and borrow more and more money that those future generations must repay, or, since this is america, instead of repay, just pay intrest on forever.
I don't believe in taxation without representation. that is what deficit spending is. you either accept that you were lied to and accpet that the promises made to you(that you believed) are bullshit, or you keep demanding your children and grandchildren pay into a program that has no chance of being around for them, essentially demanding that they pay for your comfortable retirement. those are the only two choices. you can try to church it up all you want, but that all it boils down to
I can tell you as a libertarian what it is to me. I'm so disgusted with all of the career politicians I can't imagine any of them making a positive difference. I'm certain I'll disagree with 50% of what Trump would do - but what I'm sure he wouldn't do is suck Goldman Sachs dick, bow to foreign dictators, or throw America under the bus at every turn.
I have to disagree. Trump has a made a fortune with the help of Wall St Banksters and DC lobbyists.
And he throws his business partners under tbus all the time.
Absolutely. This is the prime reason why I question his motives.
Yes, I agree with him on illegal immigration. It is a severe problem and I personally see the healthcare burden they have caused in my area. However, there are those who will continue to profit from it not being changed and they will eliminate anyone who tries.
Miffed
@donutboy- I appreciate your candid response, but trump made most of his money through our corrupt, crony system, and I would being willing to bet that most of his 'wealth' is smoke and mirrors and overleveraged assets. He reminds me of that one guy who has to convince everyone he is loaded when in reality he is just in debt up to his eyeballs. Everyone knows or has known someone like that in their lifetime, and trump fits the description perfectly.
And as far as being a libertarian and disagreeing with 50% of what trump does- if you are a remotely consistent libertarian(and ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are) then it will be more like you disagree with 90% + of what trump says on pretty much everything else. Im not willing to compromise on my principles just because I agree with him on ONE issue. Again, I do NOT want this guy ruling over me.
If you were a libertarian, you would be aware no one rules over you.
I am an ancap as well, but central planners indeed rule over us.
"trump made most of his money through our corrupt, crony system"
As has just about everyone else in this country. If the crony corruption ended tomorrow, so likely would our entire economy. Corruption is never isolated. That is the whole point. It infiltrates every facet. Trump may be the king of corruption, but he is candid about it. He tells the world that he has profited from playing ball with the politicians.
What are our choices? Are waiting for Gandhi or Mother Teressa? Are going to elect some up and comer, who we KNOW is sucking the dick of God only knows who...and how many for the cash to get elected?
Lets do this....lets support those statements and proposed policies we agree with regardless of who makes them. when it comes to the vote, then we judge on the whole picture, their history, their actions and their words. After weighing everything with a heavy dose of cynicism, decide then, rather than trashing everyone now.
"Lets do this....lets support those statements and proposed policies we agree with regardless of who makes them. when it comes to the vote, then we judge on the whole picture, their history, their actions and their words. After weighing everything with a heavy dose of cynicism, decide then, rather than trashing everyone now."
I am judging trump based on what he says, and he is a scumbag authoritarian just like the rest. just beacuse i don't like a buch of illegals mooching off our system(that i also don't like to begin with) doesn't mean i am going to support someone who i disagree with on almost every other issue. you HAVE heard him speak about foriegn policy right? you like the idea of fucking invading iran? i hope you find yourself a spot on the front lines then. have fun
I decide I dislike Obama sucking on tools while he is illegally in the uSA.
Time to send the H1B's back to Chindia as well.
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I see your point, there.
It was a pointless rant that added nothing of value to your succinct comment, BCB.
I deleted it out of courtesy to you and ZH and just up-arrowed your comment instead. That seemed the most appropriate response.
Besides, Tyler refuses to pay me by the word... that bastard!
Then you are a gentleman and I apologize for my (customarily weak) attempt at humor.
No need to apologize - I thought it was pretty clever, that's why I up-arrowed it.
"...Then you are a gentleman and..."
NOW you have gone MUCH TOO FAR, you bastard!
Coming to your town soon:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33951927
Was thinking the same when I read this post.. wonder what Don thinks of H1Bs.
The F500 crowd has been effectively using alien low-wage labor via the H1B loophole for years to garner a few more pennies for their quarterly EPS results.
But, but, but there's a skills shortage in the U.S.!! I can't find any qualified chumps willing to slave away in data centers for $15 / hr. I cringe whenever I hear such drivel from tech companies..
Maybe the wrong place to post this, but as I'm involved in the high tech sector, I was looking around the other day and most of the really really smart people in the room are asian who are doing all the high end work.
Most of the Americans do the management and strategy work. Just what I've noticed over the past 10 years. Is this a failure of our education system (yes). Is this because of policy (yes). To put it bluntly, I'm not sure how we survive if we get rid of all H1-B ect... I'm for it, but I'm wondering what happens afterwards since we are so far embedded in the current situation.
I'm sitting in San Francisco (I don't work in Tech.... but I see it all around me) and I tend to agree with what you're saying....except for the outcome. I have a one year old and I cringe about sending her to most of the public schools here. In San Francisco! Makes no sense. We need to improve the schools and get rid of the Illegals and H1-Bs. We send them home and they will do what? Improve India, China and France? There is no economy there, and there still won't be when they get back.
It might take us a little while to regain the traction... but who are we going to lose it to in the first place? Russia? Mexico? China? France? Those places are all screwed far more than we are, and without the upside potential.
I am in the AEC (architecture engineering construction) industry and I see a drive to deliver design services for less money. The firm owners use h1b holders to drive down salaries to the point where the industry is less attractive to those who have brains and a good education. Worse yet bad design gets out on the street and it ends up costing big money to fix. We are shortsighted and it will destroy us.
What part of the country are you in?
Noo Yawk Shitty.
I recently diagnosed an Ethiopian with infectious TB getting her teaching credential. She was teaching at a local kindergarten and public health removed her. She was told she could return to work as soon as I could no longer see TB in her sputum. For weeks I had to endure her husband calling me a bitch on the phone saying I was lying about her having TB so they would have to return to Africa. I pointed out several other labs had found it too but he claimed we were all in on the conspiracy.
For for the life of me I cannot understand why we need to import people to teach kindergarten. I wonder if the parents,after getting the info their child was exposed to tuberculosis, felt the same way I did.
I diagnose many H1B visa Indians with TB as well but it is primarily Potts Disease so at least that is not infectious.
Miffed
Those people should be sent home. A health risk, hostile and abusive to the point of committing assault (If some one makes you ill at ease, to cause worry about your physical security, it is assault.)
Sorry folks, I'm all for the next guy, the down trodden, etc., but this importation of beasts of burden is only of 2 objectives.
For businesses to lower wage costs and for politicians, to gain additional Progressive voters.
Go figure. It has noting to do with anybody's rights but citizens and citizens are the ones getting screwed.
Progressivism and Crony Capitalism, which are in bed together Big Time, are mental diseases
Where are you located (it can be approximate, if you don't want to reveal too much.)?
SoCal, not near San Fran. Please realize, the parents would be informed. Public health still does this. Also realize this has only been happening in the last 6 years. Never have I seen in the 30 years as a clinical microbiologist the number of smear positive ( infectious) TB cases coming on planes from other countries. Often coming as amnesty cases. If this continues we may have a serious public health issue at some point.
Miffed
Careful, the fucker may try to necklace your ass.
Live Free - Allow me a counter-example... we have a data center in Austin, TX, and the VP in charge of the place, his directors and the directors' worker bees have base salaries of low $200k, $150k - $170k and $80k - $120k, respectively. They also receive quarterly bonus payouts tied to the company's financial performance, and they periodically receive option grants to give them skin in the game.
The punch line is that the team down there is top notch, and no one is there on an H1B program. We pay for quality, and we get it. And we don't have jokers implanted from the People's Liberation Army to steal our intellectual property.
....in Austin
+1000
I am also in the high tech sector and can say from first-hand experience that the best tech talent is now coming from abroad.
In my line of work, it is not a question of trying to find cheap talent. It is a matter of competitiveness.
In terms of creativeness and problem solving, most American job candidates are considerably weaker than their Asian / Indian counterparts. They pack a ton of attitude and snobishness, have excessive salary demands right out of school, piss and moan more and, in general, are a pain in the ass.
As much as it grinds my patriotic side, I would much rather hire a highly motivated Taiwanese or Indian over an effeminate, skinny-jean wearing prima donna who, though holding a pigskin shingle from some great school, is not worth shit.
Tragic, but not unexpected.
As with many companies, if Trump wins (which I hope) will be the case and brings about major H1B changes, I will simply set up a side company abroad to accomplish the same task.
Again, it is not a question of trying to find cheap talent. It is a matter of competitiveness.
Indians? Everyone in IT knows Indians are worthless. And Taiwanese? The only Chink I ever worked with had a Phd in CompSci and was fucking useless. Literally worthless. He was bounced around from job to job, site to site, by his company because his credentials made him seem worth keeping around but he was 100% incompetent at all things.
ROFL.
What an arrogant fuck.
Your post kind of smells like you are one of the worthless American prima donnas I wrote about.
You epitomize why industry does not want to deal with you.
.
I've also been in tech for 25 years. I've seen exactly ONE INDIAN AND 2 CHINKS who were good that their jobs. The other thousand were totally worthless and dishonest. Most of them pretend to speak english, and thus cannot even understand what they are being asked to do. It shows in their work product, which is completely backwards in most cases.
So yes, deport the h1b wogs and chinks. The americans do the best work.
Go to any post-grad hard science/engineering lab in any university in the US and you're likely to notice a conspicuous absence of white (and american-black) faces. They're all foreigners. Several factors at work there. Education as a big business, corrupt as any other, selling PhD's to rich foreigners. Mercans "don't like math", whatever the fuck that means. Mercans prefer to go into finance now, they're all over at the business school. Scientists/engineers don't get paid much as a rule. Etc etc etc.
I've worked with incompetent PhD's from all countries. Chindians have no monopoly. Incompetent MD's from all countries, as well.
Dawg - Not sure whether your social circles include (micro-)economics people, but if they do, then ask your peeps whether paying developers, SW / HW architects, etc. a base of $85k + $30k bonus (i.e., a 22 year-old first year analyst at a bulge bracket bank) for entry level talent or a base of $225k + $120k bonus (i.e., first year VPish comp at bulge brackets) for MS / PhD type talent would flood the programs of which you speak with more gringos than you could shake a stick at.
By definition, smart driven people aren't going to waste their time toiling in fields where they'll end up getting shat on when someone from Financial Planning & Analysis says, "Shit! We ain't gonna hit our consensus EPS number this quarter! Let's fire some IT folks, and then to make this sustainable, let's replace 'em with an H1B dude from India for a quarter of the price."
And the earlier comment about Chinese being creative is pure rubbish. China's school's teach rote memorization. All the Chinese nationals I've encountered could excel as long as they had a script that told them precisely how to get from A to Z, but God forbid should they have to improvise because of some unknown popping up.
That's been my experience in the tech world as well. The Indians are just as bad, but will do exactly what you tell them to do.
Hello Divine Wind,
Clearly your "Patriotic Side" isn't very. Let me change the lines. How about, "I dump mercury in the drinking water of my city, but if they regulate me, I'll simply go over seas to do it instead, since that's what I have to do to make a profit." You are the problem, certainly not the solution.
I'm 40 and live in podunk florida, with 20 years of IT experience in development. I'm one of the youngest white people in my fortune 500 IT department of a communications company. There are tons of younger indian and chinese folks. With exceptions, the indians and chinese folks are really only good at getting lists of rudiementary tasks given to them and accomplished. Most of the "out of the box thinking" is done by the senior level developers and architects, few of which are indian or chinese. IT management though is also to blame, as most everyone below director level is an amorphous, equally skilled box on the org chart with a name in it...
I blame the education system mostly, when i was going to school in the mid to late 90's almost all the students in the classes were older and either leaving manufacturing or some other mundane office field to learn IT (y2k wage bump..) and most of them I bet washed out after the .com bust in 2001...
That's not a good plan. They're here legally. They work, pay taxes, and add to America's GDP far more than they add to its social program cost. Here's the thing abount the Chindia H1B's - they WILL be working productively somewhere. Would you rather it be overseas or here? Better here I think.
Americans first.
Check out my post earlier in the day, DonutBoy. It isn't like they are going to make China or wherever else better if they never came here in the first place. If you think that is what will happen, don't let them get the experience to take home.
Trump really struck a nerve with the illegal rhetoric. If there's one thing that cross dem/rep lines at the voter level, it's the "build a wall" meme. Before you jump in with the various red/blue stuff note that I said "at the voter level". Sure, blue politicos think illegals = votes (most Mexicans vote red), and the red team likes the cheap labor, but I am truly surprised to hear the immigrant hatred coming out of people who are moderate in nearly every other category.
Latinos vote over 70% D in presidential elections even if the R candidate speaks Spanish and panders shamelessly to them. They're almost all FSA militants, including the fraction that voted against the magic negro, or against homosexuality, or against abortion.
You're probably right, I was only commenting on personal experience. All the Mexicans I know (can't help knowing a bunch here in Phoenix), a quick count in my head of 27, claim to vote republican. (Can't really be sure som e vote dem and only say they vote rep)
As you say, mostly because they're anti abortion and/or gay, and because after they gained legal status, they want to close the door behind them, anti immigration.
Also keep in mind, I'm only talking about actual Mexicans. I know anyone who speaks Spanish = Mexican to a lot of people, but I can't really speak to how Costa Ricans, Panamanian, Guatamalens, etc. vote, don't know any.
My cousin the roofer loves his Guatamalens, says they kick ass up on the roof.
"My cousin the roofer loves his Guatamalens, says they kick ass up on the roof."
in the short run, your cousin will line his pockets at the expense of his fellow citizens. in the long run, his grandson the roofing laborer will be working for those Guatemalans.
He's already done with most of that. He still owns the company and it does all right, but he made the big money in 2002-08 boom and then diversified. Lotsa irons in different fires now.
I wouldn't be surprised if he sold out to the Guatemalans. There isn't a lot of money there anymore. Gotta stay nimble!
trump is playing you for fools.
But the professional politicians aren't? At least Trump speaks in black and white -- not the 5000 shades of gray that allows the professional pols to weasle out of every "commitment" they have ever made.
I never said the professional politician weren't also playing everyone for fools. they are. Im saying trump is no better. He is just a professional shyster from the private sector rather than the public sector, but a shyster none the less.
~"Until you dismantle the welfare state, illegals from all over the world will flood here."~
Carl's right. But it's bigger than that. You will have to make the federal government one tenth this isze it is now, keep it that way for over 100 years and return the country to a gold-backed bond system to ever have a chance of getting this country solvent. Oh, and get rid of the Fed, break up the banking cartel and force lobbyists to register ala FARA act with long, unappealable hard-rock jail sentences.
For us it is austerity, for Mexico it is a blood bath. Let's suppose we (America) succeeds in forcing all of the foreign natinals to leave. Mexico will receive in short order say 8 MILLION unemployed "Americanized" citizens. The country's spigot of support money, (sent back home by those now-returned 8 MILLION), will dry up. Just how long do you think it will be before Mejico has they own leetle, (or not so little), revolucion? Methinks weeks. Then you really are going to need a wall. With gun turrets.
So here is my advice to any president contemplating eviction. Build the wall FIRST. Then put in place eviction measures. Failure to do so in the proper order will be extremely messy.
If a country uses its currency's reserve status to impoverish the rest of the world, it seems only reasonable that the impoverished may want to move there.
Don't Mexican men in the US have comparable unemployment rates to white American men?
Obama promised transparency - voters went for it.
Look how that worked out.
Trump is promising to deport illegals.
Likely to work out just as well.
Publicus, are you suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder?
Fox News is still bleeding viewers from their attacks on Trump about a week ago. They got thousands of scorch the earth emails and tweets.
If you haven't seen it, five minutes worth is good for a laugh: overacting, too much smiling, all this comradery with the guys behind the cameras... They are spooked. Heads will probably role before this is over. Talking heads.
Attacking an obvious winner is usually a bad strategy. Lots of money must be lining Fox owners pcokets to take such a losing viewpoint.
Fuck FOX. They're nothing more than another instrument implementing the Hegelian Dialectic divide and conquer.
They're no different than MSNBC
I cannot for the life of me differentiate between my Progressive MSNBC supporters and FOX Neo-Con supporters in that Neither Has A Fucking Clue Where the Borderlines Between Reality and Fairy Tales Begin and End.
Fuck them all.
PS Full Disclosure. As a bond manager, I've had staffs running high yield bond portfolio management operations, meaning fully exposed to The Donald's shenanigans.
While I like many of his ideas, right on real lots and lots good, he's not the un-shadiest, slicker out there.
Just be aware of that.
Amen, brother.
All the MSM act as a single mouthpiece for the "owners".