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Court To Bakery Owners: You Have No Property Rights
Submitted by Ryan McMaken via The Mises Institute,
The Colorado Appeals Court ruled that the owners of a bakery do not have any right to control their property, and that they shall be forced to provide bakery services to a couple that the owner would rather not do business with. In other words, they have no property rights. The court writes:
Masterpiece remains free to continue espousing its religious beliefs, including its opposition to same-sex marriage. However, if it wishes to operate as a public accommodation and conduct business within the State of Colorado, CADA prohibits it from picking and choosing customers based on their sexual orientation.
These sorts of rulings essentially rewrite the very nature of commerce and our whole concept of contracts. A business agreement (i.e., a contract) is based on two parties agreeing to a voluntary relationship. This is the foundation not only of business relationships, but of the relationship between citizens and states themselves. This is why "social contract" theory is so popular among theorists. Everyone recognizes that coerced relationships are inherently unjust, which is why defenders of the modern state system claim that states derive their legitimacy from a "social contract" in which both parties agree to the relationship.
Without this contract into which both parties have presumably entered voluntarily, the relationship is unjust and a violation of basic human rights. But that all just goes out the window, apparently, when we're talking about discrimination. With court decisions like these, the court is saying that we can have contracts in which one only side agrees to it. But let's just call this what it is: seizure of one of the party's private property.
Moreover, in an attempt to muddy the waters further, we're being told that this case is about religion. Ultimately, though, cases like these are really about nothing more than the simple right to control one's private property:
In practice, the decision to exclude is always based on some type of discrimination. The type of discrimination can run the gamut from “you’re banned from my store because you groped customers” to “I don’t serve your (racial) kind.” In everyday life, the merchant, salesman, clerk, or owner of any kind must — because time is scarce — make constant discriminatory decisions as to whether or not he will do business with client A or client B. Indeed, every single economic act requires this sort of discrimination. A person may prefer to do business with more attractive people, or people who are friendlier. Or he may wish to work only with his co-religionists or citizens of his own nation-state. On a fundamental level, everyone knows this is the case, but many accept that it is the legitimate role of the state to decide which types of discrimination are acceptable and which are not. Hence, discrimination against unattractive people remains acceptable. Discrimination against certain racial groups is not.
Regardless of what groups end up being favored, the effect of any anti-discrimination law is to curtail the freedom of the owner and to increase the size and scope of government’s coercive power over the lives and livelihoods of property owners. Moreover, since anti-discrimination law is heavily dependent on proving intent and motivation, such regulation also puts the government in the position of investigating the thoughts and opinions of owners. Sometimes, owners make this easy for regulators by stating their motivations outright, but in other cases, private owners are investigated and inferences are made as to the feelings and views of owners. This is necessary because, since every business transaction requires some sort of discrimination, the mere act of not entering into a business transaction is not sufficient to prove not-government-approved discrimination.
And even from a consequentialist angle, there is no real "cost" on the party being refused service. In this case, the refused party merely needs to drive down the road to one of dozens of similar bakeries in the Denver metropolitan area. But even if there were no other bakery in town (which is untrue of any community but the tiniest) the answer to this is to encourage more commercial freedom. Restricting commercial freedom merely produced the opposite effect of producing fewer bakeries:
Thus, those who wish to lessen the negative effects of discrimination on consumers ought to concentrate on expanding the economic options for those who face discrimination. This is done through deregulation of industry and the elimination of corporate welfare and other anti-market programs and regulations that favor incumbent and semi-monopolist firms. Unfortunately, however, those who favor regulation of discrimination also tend to favor government regulation in general, including wage rates, employment practices, lending practices, food “purity,” and nearly everything else, in spite of the fact that the sum effect of such regulations is to prevent the entry of new firms into the market place while protecting the standing of large politically-powerful firms. The result is fewer merchants, fewer firms, fewer jobs, and more monopoly power which leads precisely to the negative discrimination-imposed burdens that the pro-regulation lobby claims to be fighting against.
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Stupid white Christians brains have been pickled with fairytales.
and you homos intentionay lick over an ounce of shit from other men's penises, and out of or men's rectums every year....
TongueStun, what's really scary is that you and many like you seem to think that you are one of the "white Christian Americans" to which you refer.
note how cowardly homosexuals down arrow facts they cannot refute
You seeem to be very knowledgeable about what gays do. You must one of those fucking Jesus loving faggots. Jesus was gay and had 12 buttfucking buddies. Most people don't know that
You seeem to be very knowledgeable about what gays do. You must one of those fucking Jesus loving faggots. Jesus was gay and had 12 buttfucking buddies. Most people don't know that
You seeem to be very knowledgeable about what gays do. You must one of those fucking Jesus loving faggots. Jesus was gay and had 12 buttfucking buddies. Most people don't know that
"and you homos intentionay lick over an ounce of shit from other men's penises, and out of or men's rectums every year...."
Even worse, they sometimes drink Starbucks coffee.
And the worst of the lot are the christian zionists. Enablers.
But white Christians ARE stupid already by definition(especially televangelists and their followers), its white seculars that I would worry about.
Buy a 1 Ounce Canadian Maple Leaf silver coin for just €16.77!
https://www.eurgold.eu/silver/maple-leaf-1oz-silver-coin-5-dollars-legal...
Self-luber.
There are many gay bars, saunas and other facilities around the world where they dont allow women! Even if they only need to use toilet! How about that?
I drove taxi for a while back in early 70's when going to college. I picked up a bulldyke one day and took her to a Lesbo bar. I told her I curious what it was like inside so she said she would escort me in but to keep my mouth shut because many of the ''girls' had no problem in kicking a mans' ass.
I drove taxi for a while back in early 70's when going to college. I picked up a bulldyke one day and took her to a Lesbo bar. I told her I curious what it was like inside so she said she would escort me in but to keep my mouth shut because many of the ''girls' had no problem in kicking a mans' ass.
I drove taxi for a while back in early 70's when going to college. I picked up a bulldyke one day and took her to a Lesbo bar. I told her I curious what it was like inside so she said she would escort me in but to keep my mouth shut because many of the ''girls' had no problem in kicking a mans' ass.
Interesting that Dutchboy posted the exact same comment a couple of months ago...
Fagscist homonazis and the black-robed pussies who love them.
Tyranny is here, and this is what it looks like!
How about we throw a Proud Heterosexual parade??
The moral of the story, sell Chicken and Waffles
Shut the bakery down and move to a another state. Fuck Colorado.
Move to another country and be really free.
The bakery could have just said. 'The two men on top of the cake is special order and design and will cost you 1000 dollars extra.
Then all the customer had to do would walk out the door and find another bakery.
Seems like the bakery is not very creative when dealing with customers they dont' want.
Special cakes can only be picked up at our special office outlet in Brunei for those special occasions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/brunei-gay-sex-law_n_5154960.html
This bakery could have avoided all this by posting a big sign on their window
''We specialize in Gay wedding cakes, 1500 dollars and up''
15000 and up. Go big or go home.
Move to Russia, you have rights there. Also, people are strongly of the view that you need to support society cohesive measures rather than measures fragmenting sosciety into unconnected individiums by amplifying minority groups claims against majority of people.
Or you could move here to Europe where businesses don't give a crap about being gay or straight and just sell to the customer.
Amerika was made for lawyers.
I like living in a free country where not only do we have freedom OF religion but also freedom FROM religion.
In other words, get in my face with some Buybull crap on the street and I can have you arrested for harassment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/14/world/middleeast/isis-enshrines-a-theo...
The liberals will cease to exist.
No matter what your media tells you in the USA> ISIS is funded and supported by the USA.
Want some photos of McCain with ISIS??
Wounded ISIS fighters being treated in Israelis hospitals.
A case of Black ISIS flags found to be manufactured in Israel.
Want more evidence?
The implosion is going to be very very messy.
[quiver]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSOOsmv7A_I
Europe will be on its knees as it is already. The calvary is not coming to save you.
A few deacades ago they boasted we will destroy millions of our own to destroy you. Euro-peons are
paying the price daily now. Yes, the implosion will be nasty if your lucky to last that long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWrpv-pbuc Not fomenting any thing. These socialist will kill you
with policy in literal terms for multi-culturalism. Cake is the least of the issue coming.
Beyond belief. All this stink just so someone who does not like you will bake you a cake. Don't you thinkg there are bigger issues?
BTW, bet the baker puts shit in your cake. You and your friends should love it.
the political correctness found in this decision is why the Donald is leading the polls (regardless of whether he gets the nomination or not). I don't care if a person is gay or trans or whatever. It's their life to live free and be safe in this country. But to beat a baker for his or her beliefs becomes silliness. I'm sure there are many bakers who would be happy to bake a cake for a couple no matter their orientation.
this country is just nuts and people have had it with the silliness of it all.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they found this judge wearing a tight fitting neck tie. This rulling is beyond bullshit and the left knows it. Won't be long now.
I am as gay as the day is long and thrilled about the blessing God has bestowed on me. I'd hate nothing worse than to be straight. But I can't for the life of me see how anyone should be forced to bake a cake. I would piss in it if it were me. The problem is that the poor baker is most likely a true Christian and will not lie or cheat - even to protect his or her business. I am out publicly and certainly am a community leader here in town. When my boyfriend died, the head of the born again Christian prayer group officiated at his funeral. She assumes we are going to hell but knows that we are where the action is.
God bless her.
You're lucky. I've never had the opportunity to meet anyone who actually practiced chistianity.
You probably have, just not at a church.
creep
"I'd hate nothing worse than to be straight."
That's what you hate in this world? ...seriously?!?
The mistake the baker made was in being too honest. He should have taken a cue from his own government, lie. He should have taken the wedding cake order with a smile and then simply "forgot" to fill the order. Mission accomplished and when the "gay community" learns what an unreliable baker he is, he will get no more business from them. No courts, no lawsuits, no national attention and with the added benefit that he will sleep soundly knowing that he has ruined their "wedding". As our government clearly knows, honesty is not always the best policy.
Honesty is always punished. Always.
i sell remodeling projects to homeowners. I owe no one a written contract unless we both agree on the terms and conditions. I need no reason, NONE, not to sign a contract with them as they owe me nothing for quoting them my products and services. Let them sue me because they are swordfighters or tongue and groovers and prove it in the court of law.
This is a basic as private property rights. We are well and truly fucked. Look around at this country. I don't recognize it any more. I am 60 and have busted my as my whole life. Wake the fuck up America. They are coming for us ALL.
Wake the fuck up America. They are coming for us ALL.
Fuckin A
This is what happens when you dance with the devil i.e. the STATE.....
The STATE doesn't exist. People exist.
and Obama gives legal right to Mohammedans to refuse to deliver alcohol. Double standards galore.
http://www.conservativeinfidel.com/obama-sues-trucking-company-for-requi...
Let's see: the democratically elected representatives of the people of Colorado enacted an anti-discrimination law, like virtually every jurisdiction in North America. The business owner desparately wants to discriminate but there is a law which prevents it. In what way is this a story? Is there something unusual about these kinds of cases?
Why does ZH use such inflammatory language as "you have no property rights"? Is there only one important property right - the power to discriminate at the business owner's choosing? Did all of the other property rights simply disappear? Does ZH actively support discrimination and segregation in bussinesses that purport to sell goods and services to the general public? Does ZH think that when a court upholds a democratically enacted law, that it is a few judges rather than the general population that is saying: no, we do not want this kind of discrimination in our community?
ZH - inflammatory, hyperbolic defender of segregation and discrimination. What a great reputation to have.
The democratically elected representatives of the people of Colorado are simply representing another mob. They have usurped powers that they ought not have. The government establishment of this mob has decided to proceed further down this tyrannical path by choosing winners and losers in commerce, denying free markets in which the businessperson(s) are not able realize the consequences of their decisions in a free market. It denies free association, a fundamental right. It intrudes into the marketplace under the proposition that a bunch of mob elected bozos playing at political football are the proper judge of when it is OK to discriminate or not and they are NOT playing with public funds. The "public accomodation" legal precept in private service provision is bullshit.
YOU are an idiot.
Pretty simple really. Does a gay couple have the right to enslave a bakery owner to do work they do not want to do (for ANY reason). Is it a human right if it forces another person to do it for you?
Admittedly, I think the local population should take up the mantle and refuse to do business with the bakery for their refusal to do business with gay couples, to me that's fine and fair. EVERYONE involved with that scenario is given a choice. If you can't define a right as something you must force someone else to do for you... in that scenario no one's rights are violated. The couple simply chooses another bakery, the bakery owner loses the couples' business and the business of people on moral protest against the owner's refusal. They may also gain business of like-minded individuals in show of support. The scenario is full of free will... the government stepping in and telling you that you MUST WORK regardless of your own desires is... slavery, pretty simple.
You, me, and everyone on this planet is not ENTITLED to another person's labor. That was supposed to be over in 1863. And no, that is not an overdramatization, particularly if you're the one being enslaved.
Personally I think the owner should shut down their business and tell the state to go fuck themselves. Of course that's likely not an option for a small business owner with their life savings likely in their business.
Right to discriminate is the other side of right to associate.
I suggest God-fearing christians of all makes and models go forth to gay bakeries everywhere and order baptism cakes, confirmation cakes, and wedding cakes, chastity cakes, hetero cakes, baby cakes, nun cakes, priest cakes, and breeder cakes galore. Flood them with orders! Now that it's been proven that the ruling has been handed down from on high, that they can't pick and choose their customers, it's all good, right?
The mask is coming off, there never were any "property rights" in the USA. We're only lease or license holders in the eyes of the state. Tax cattle.
How long until you are not allowed to discriminate against people who don't pay for your good/service?
You WILL provide good/service to persons unable to pay because that's soshal justiss! You greedy businessmen with your greed and your money and your discriminations! BAD! NO! BAD businesspeople! BAD!
Already there in trying to collect overdue invoices...
You are already forced to take FRNs if you are in Amerika
nothing like a thread like this to bring out all the sore butts
fecal canal sex
what would you expect?
If it was my bakery and I was being forced by the government to provide services to someone or a group that was against my moral beliefs I would close shop and move to another State.
double post
Why do you want renounce to your job and business for some fascist faggot?
Just give them a shitty service and a shitting products.
Give them a cake with salt inthead of sugar. Or with no sugar at all.
"What!?? Do you not like my pie?"
goodbye---and good riddance ! !
Your life is property.
If you have no property rights, you have no rights of any kind.
The alternative to Contract (of which Law is one type) is Tooth and Claw. Government has accepted that this is the nature of its relationship with the population.
When will the population accept the same?
Most of us did not ask to be citizens of this penitentiary. We were born here, continuously fed propaganda since grade school and now close to the end; many now see the empire for exactly what it was.
National and many state and local governments are loyal only to “Just Us”. Why should the rest of us be loyal to them?
Shut it down. GTFO.
In the situation of Arkansas vs Eureka Springs, which declared itself free of discrimination by law in opposition to the state statute forbidding such declarations, the vast majotity of the voters wanted this. (579-231...81% voting). We are a tourist town and we felt it necessary to defy state law.
Consensus is accepted in some cases, such as a curfew law for teenagers, which violates their rights, but is necessary to protect them if murder has become a problem late night.
Pickleton said "So marriage has had a definition longer than this country has existed."
What is marriage? Per my observation it is the joining of two people to the state trhough a judicial/licensing processes. Do you have another view to share?
i suggest that when you are teaching your 4th graders about my two dads you show a man with hairy balls ass packing his "lover" / husband. Show them in vivid detail what you are not only condoning but encouraging. As you encourage said kids to explore their sexuality,,, sit in the desk next to them listening to the perverse propaganda of the lefties teaching them this.
Do not however draw the outline of a gun on your stick figures your are doodling on your scracth pad as that may get you locked up for act of violence. Look around everyone,,, we , self included , have looked the other way and allowed this all to occur on our watch. I do not exclude my self. I have been tossed from school board meetings. Borderline arrested.
I think we are on the other side of the hill and going down quickly. Look around,
If only the Trans-Pacific Partnership got as much press coverage and public debate as non-issues like bakeries and flags do.
The last thing gays should be doing is bringing lawsuits like this. They are sowing the seeds for real discrimination and hate against them. Forcing people to do things they do not want does not get rid of discrimination, it magnifies it while hiding it. It also makes a huge neutral group (all people who care about property rights / rights of association / etc) now begin weighing if they care enough about a small minority of gays more than their own broader liberties. This makes enemies out of otherwise neutral or even previously friendly people. Eventually this same government the gays are going to and have influence in will reverse course as public sentiment turns against them, and once again they will be staring at the horror or real state backed discrimination.
People need to learn to stop going to the State to fix their problems. It feeds the power of the State to the detriment of all. The homophobic bakers were losing business, that should have been the beginning and end of the issue. Boycotts and shame and patronizing other bakeries should have been the response, not this.