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Global Trade In Freefall: Container Freight Rates From Asia To Europe Crash 60% In Three Weeks
Three weeks ago, when we last looked at the collapse in trade along what may be the most trafficked route involving China, i.e., from Asia to Northern Europe, we noted that while that particular shipping freight rate Europe had crashed some 23% on just one week, there was some good news: at least the Baltic Dry index was still inexplicably rising, and at last check it was hovering just above 1,100.
That is no longer the case, and just as with everything else in recent months, the Baltic Dry dead cat bounce is now over, with the BDIY topping out just above 1200 on August 4, and now back in triple digit territory, rapidly sliding back to the reality of recent record lows which a few months ago we suggested hinted that much more is wrong with global trade, and the global economy, than artificially manipulated stock markets would admit.
More importantly, a major source of confusion appears to have been resolved. Recall that as we noted on August 3, "many were wondering how it was possible that with accelerating deterioration across all Chinese asset classes, not to mention the bursting of various asset bubbles, could global shippers demand increasingly higher freight rates, an indication of either a tight transportation market or a jump in commodity demand, neither of which seemed credible. We may have the answer."
We did. To wit:
"Should the dead cat bounce in shipping rates indeed be over, and if the accelerate slide continues at the current pace, not only will shippers mothball key transit lanes, but the biggest concern for global economy, the unprecedented slowdown in world trade volumes, which we flagged a week ago, will be not only confirmed but is likely to unleash yet another global recession."
As expected, on Friday, we got confirmation that the BDIY has indeed become a lagging indicator to actual demand, when Reuters reported in its latest weekly update using data from the Shanghai Containerized Freight Index, that key shipping freight rates for transporting containers from ports in Asia to Northern Europe fell by 26.7 percent to $469 per 20-foot container (TEU) in the week ended on Friday.
The collapse in rates is nothing short of a bloodbath: "it was the third consecutive week of falling freight rates on the world’s busiest route and rates are now nearly 60 percent lower than three weeks ago.
Freight rates on the world’s busiest shipping route have tanked this year due to overcapacity in available vessels and sluggish demand in goods to be transported. Rates generally deemed profitable for shipping companies on the route are at about $800-$1,000 per TEU.
Other Europe-focused freight rates did even worse, with container freight rates from Asia to ports in the Mediterranean plunging 32.1%, while those to the US West and East coast slid by 7.9% and 9.9%, respectively.
This should not come as a surprise: it was back in March when we first reported that "Global Trade Volume Tumbles Most Since 2011; Biggest Value Plunge Since Lehman."
It took the no longer discounting "market" about 6 months to figure this out. As for the culprit, no question who is at fault.
HK cargo container throughput July -9.5% yoy, recorded 13 consecutive months decline, worst in modern history.
— Simon Ting (@simonting) August 22, 2015
@simonting Singapore TEU -13.2% too, worst since Lehman crisis.
— Simon Ting (@simonting) August 23, 2015
What happens next?
Well, some, such as the world’s largest container shipping company, Maersk Line, will desperately try to no longer lose money on every transit, with a plan to raise spot freight rates by $1,000 from ports in Asia to ports in northern Europe, with effect from Sep 1. Other major container shipping companies have similar plans.
The virtually guaranteed outcome of this "strategy", as there is simply not enough demand as the world careens off the global recession cliff to offset a surge in freight costs, will be an even greater collapse in trade volumes.
The alternative, is just as bad: as we sarcastically hinted first in March:
... none of the above should alarm anyone: remember - central banks can just print trade with just the flick of a CTRL-P switch.
And then again three weeks ago when we said no need to worry because it is just a matter of time before "central planners learn how to print trade."
For now, however, printing money no longer equates to boosting global trade. In fact, easy monetary policy now appears to be backfiring, as even the "market" has figured out.
So, sarcasm aside, what really happens next, to both shipping, trade, the global economy and markets? Sadly, unless central planning finally works after 7 years of failing ever upward... this.

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This means the EU has enough stuff right?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/585501/3-months-migrants-flood-Europe
Germany orders Britain – take MORE migrants, as country faces 800,000 this yearhttp://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/600151/Germany-Britain-MORE-migrants-co...
Europe is doomed.
Bienvenidos cucarachas nuevas!!
The whole damn thing is about to blow.
Can we get Bernanke back, at least that cocksucker knows how to print money, we got nothing else. NOTHING!
Doh, technology is reducing the cost of transportation.
Maybe if Draghi and Yellen eject their warp cores simultaneously, the explosion will push us out of the singularity captain!
This will not be contain(ered).
S.S Minnow going on a 3 hour tour.
simon ting wong!
"Simon Ting @simonting
HK cargo container throughput July -9.5% yoy, recorded 13 consecutive months decline, worst in modern history."
This is what happens when the beleif is there's no end in sight for growth.
That moar is better cause it captures moar market share and lowers unit costs.
Same mistake Japan made in the 80's building moar and moar and moar...
>Worst fears realized tomorrow
>PPT stick save
It's all them Goddamned electric cars, I'm tellin' ya!
Can't they ship all those immigrants in shipping containers? Problem solved!
Long term immigrant storage.. I like it. But..
“Asia to Northern Europe…$469 per 20-foot container (TEU) “
Interesting to note that it costs less to ship an 8.6’ x 8’ x 20’ Twenty Foot Equivalent Unit(TEU) from Hong Kong to Amsterdam than it costs to have an 8’x 8’ x12’ PODS shipped from Maryland to VA.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/movers/pods.html
immigration is an easy problem to solve. 'israelis' always and without exception aggressively promote 'universalism' and open-borders in every country they contaminate...and so, it stands to reason that they'll enthusiastically welcome all these 'political refugees', give them unlimited benefits, abandon the prohibition on inter-ethnic marriage, enroll them in their schools and greet them in their neighborhoods there in palastine. i just cannot fathom hypocrisy from jews -- honest and sincere as they always are; and i reckon the kinnesset will establish hospitable and immanently liberal policies so-regarding forthwith.
after all, judah, what's good for america & europe is good for israel...right? anything else would be racist.
in fact, i think israeli aid should be contingent on the passing of these progressive policies.
janus
an african israeli president. I LIKE IT
the candidate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXDSeiHSRcc
My Nominee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79KzZ0YqLvo
and this one is really interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnvbAGiujOQ
Times are tough. But I still have faith in the banksters. They can keep those balls up in the air for a long long time. Those boys are brilliant.
thank you, Smith. for whatever reason your motif -- or whatever you'd prefer to call it -- doesn't wear thin with me. it's like a fortune cookie, only more satisfying and filling...somewhat a fortune biscuit, or possibly a proverbial scone.
best of luck with the dragon lady. i've been told that the sterotypes associated with korea mothers are all totally invalid; that they are instead easy-going, not in any way vindictive, slow to anger, diplomatic and deferential, never hostile or aggressive when insisting on their way and trusting of strangers...but, with respect to the pharmacopial treatment of these virtues, i think you mean ketamine, which is a horse tranqulizer and is known to induce episodes known as 'k-holes', a place where the happy patient may experience bouts of detachment and delusion, and semi-psychotic fits of paranoia and panic are not uncommon. just keep her offa the soju, keep her busy with the kim-chee, get you a thai mistress, some name brand coca-cola and the rest will take care of itself.
that will be all for now, agent smith...janus is off to rescue some french chics from a roving band of naughty and colicky bears hell bent on havoc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msbfN81Gm0
grow apple trees/
and honey bees/
and snow-white turtle-doves,
janus
I'm a god damned agnostic and I enjoy reading your blog.
Ebony, ivory, jooery?
You are just jealous of Ron Jeremy.
well moving them one at a time down an interstate is less efficient than one ship floating 16,000 of them across an ocean.
I also don't know too many people with loading docks and and gantry cranes at their residences... or trucking companies that have term route obligations that necessarily create "POD-sized" excess/underutilized capacity when demand drops.
God, I'm getting sick of the used container blight. There's tens of thousands of those rusty damn things piled up in my city and they will never be used - we don't manufacture jack any more. They're worse than pastic bags. And I don't care what clever uses people can dream up for them, they're a f'king eyesore in any urban setting. I'm expecting my neighbor to have one dropped in his back-yard for some idiotic reason pretty soon. He'll use it for a giant doghouse, a party shak or maybe a spare bedroom when his extra-and/or-missing-chromosome inlaws come over to visit. They're good for storage or a hunting shack if you put it miles from where anyone can see it, but nobody ever does.
Is there something special about those things that they can't scrap them? I thought they were made out of Corten steel. Too bad they're not made from wood - you could at least burn the damn things and get some use out of them.
Reduce Reuse Recycle. These are the words to live by man. Mother earth gives you life and love and you should cherish her gifts, brother. You come down on your neighbor for seeing and living the love and that is a sad day for our all of us. (takes another bong hit) Like we're all in this together man. Be cool.
I'm all for reusing those things. I wouldn't mind looking at something like this in his back yard for the next decade.
The problem with my neighbor is that I will end up looking at this party shack for the next decade, except he will not bothered to have spray-painted over the five-foot tall COSCO or Hyundai logo with brown primer. He will simply remind me that he's planning on painting it over, which puts it somewhere in a five-year timeframe, plus or minus two years.
The only thing I have going for me is that he would have to pay a couple of grand for one and then pay to have it dropped. He's way too cheap for that. If he can't drag it home on his boat trailer (he doesn't own a boat) then I'm probably safe. I'm worried that he'll get an old beat-up one for free and have one of his mobster friends that works for the city drop it for him.
+10 rant Paveway
LMAO
Honestly I am with you. I hate even seeing in my neighbors backyard. Much less some giant rusting box or whatever...
Think I had a few too many last night. :)
Not trying to be a bitch here, but this comment struck a nerve. I normally love your comments Paveway; but this, to me at least, just sounds like wanting to tell people what to do just because you do not want to look at something.
Maybe you can get a law passed that can tell them what they can and can not have on their property. I love those...
Now if I was your neighbor, I would just save up and move to a more rural area if possible. That way, everyone wins.
Fuck the city anyway.
"...but this, to me at least, just sounds like wanting to tell people what to do just because you do not want to look at something."
Nope - let me make this clear: there is no telling my neighbor what to do and he wouldn't give a damn anyways. He has lawyers on speed-dial - he tried to sue the paper boy and newspaper for some nonsense. He's THAT kind of guy.
I live in what was a quiet old neighborhood. Lots of retirees that took care of their simple but neat little houses, mowed their lawns and generally respected each other. They're the kind of people that would come over and apologize because they thought the smell of charcoal lighter fluid they used to start their grill that afternoon might have annoyed you since the wind was blowing your way. It's the kind of neighborhood where we all mow the older residents lawns for them just because.
My potential-shipping-container neighbor does occasionally mow his lawn, but refuses to mow the three-foot strip of boulevard in front of his house 'because it's city property' (it's not). His favorite pastime is waxing his expensive SUV and pickups on the weekend with the sub-woofers on 11. He likes screeching-ass glam rock, and his wife and kids love rap - the more profianity the better, because everyone want's to hear bass-enhanced songs about some "doggin' dat niggaz' bitch" at 9:30 A.M. on a Sunday morning. I would love to open my windows when it cools off on a late summer evening, but between this guy's blaring six-foot plasma TV and the bar-like second-hand clouds of smoke (some from cigarettes) spewing from his house... well, I would rather just shelter in place. I think I mentioned his annoying, psycho Rottie that really needs to be on industrial-strength tranquilizers. Actually, I feel for the dog - he's probably gonig insane trying to escape from that madhouse.
There are suburban neighborhoods with big lots and pleny of bushes/trees, or semi-rural neighborhoods where you can't even see the neighbor's back yard. I don't live in one of those places, and my neighbor could care less. He hasn't won the lottery and doesn't have that great of a job, but just renewed his 'fleet' of pickups and SUVs - must have been $120K for all the new toys. I'm pretty sure he stopped paying his mortgage a while back. With any luck, him and his f'king boat trailer will be gone soon. Believe me, the entire neighborhood will throw a block party on that day.
Many people have had dreams or visions of Asian soldiers arriving in shipping containers to attack the U.S. Zelma Kirkpatrick had a visions like that in 1954. http://www.ubm1.org/?page=zelma - Henry Gruver did later on. I did in 1996. Others have seen mushroom clouds over cities, empty burned out cities, foreign soldiers rounding up people, missiles falling, fallout, etc.
China to Retrofit Thousands of Merchant Ships For War - 19 Jun 2015
https://tobefree.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/china-to-retrofit-thousands-of-merchant-ships-for-war/
Red China has a huge army but lacks the logistics to move and supply that army over long distances. If the story you provided a link to is accurate, things are about to change.
Quote from 1999:
"Although presented as a commercial entity," according to the House Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, "COSCO is actually an arm of the Chinese military establishment."
The Clinton administration has determined that additional information concerning COSCO that appears in the Select Committee's classified Final Report cannot be made public without affecting national security."
PRC Acquisition of U.S. Technology
PRC Purchase of Interests in U.S. Companies
The Cox Report
Instead of inmigrants, why dont ship those jewish bankers to far Siberia?
My worst fear is a PPT stick save.
That's not my worst fear. My worst fear is full-fledged commercial collapse this week. That's collapse with a capital C. Many here have been expecting it, many have been preparing....maybe this really is it. My second-worst fear is that I discounted the signs and didn't take last-minure precautions... like ordering fresh vegetable seeds, getting in a few hundred extra pounds of food, topping up the water supply, exchanging extra cash for silver. Guns can be cleaned and sighting-in checked any time but once commercial collapse really happens, there's no more opportunity to buy that extra sack of beans.
Well, that's how I spent my weekend. Hope it was a wasted effort.
Less than containerload (LCL) rates from East Asia - Callao are down for us too (but only some 5% - 10%). Good for us in the short-run, but an indicator that Peru will soon feel China's pain.
Izzat you, Do Chen?
Yes it is him, but I would like to know what the fuck happened to his real handle.
Yea!
Where's Do Chen?
I got 3.27 in Barranco on Friday, so that's nice.
It worked until it didn't.
It's illegal immigrants in those containers. The are from the kidnapped ships in Somalia.
Yeah... it must be amazon drone deliveries, right?
</rainbow vomit>
That is exactly what TPTB want you to think and spread the word ! Unfortunetaly QE will not work this time around as it did in the last illusion period ? Don't believe me, go ask China or Japan. I will be glad to see it all fold so we can get on with something REAL ! Although there will be blood in the streets.
The only way QE type print would work is if they gave the money directly to the peasants.
WB and others have predicted the helicopters of cash for quite a long time. Not sure Mr. Yellen has it in her / him / it. Quite distastful to hand out the magic sauce to useless eaters even if that is their only hope.
I think they will listen to Krugman and break more windows (think chemical and ammunition dumps).
$15/hr McRancid booger flipperz bitchez!
Bernank is busy. Collecting speaking fees from some bankers.
Well, at least the Euros won't complain about American tourists anymore. Hard to beleive the media focuses on these issues but evades the main cause: bombing the crap out of their home countries.
We're bombing Latin America?
Easier to ask what the USSA is not bombing.
"We're bombing Latin America?"
No, but Latin America, Mexico, the rest of the third world are bombarding the U.S. with their unwanted.
Why can't China and the rest of Asia take some? They need to experience all the joys of DIVERSITY.
Yeah right
Asians are xenophobic as hell.
Xenophobic as hell, you say that like it's a bad thing. They have respect for themselves and their culture.
yep. A quick trip to Japan and a ride or two or three on their trains packed to the gills in the morning and evening will show it clearly. I respected it
or you could say they are not as stupid as we are ?
Self preservation is a crime against progressivism.
For millennia it was called defending your homeland.
This is not happening by accident.
I have a theory that occurred to me a couple of days ago.
There is a certain group of people that has been chased out of many European countries over the centuries.
They hate Europe and found a way to get revenge.
China doesn't have any of those. Not in banking, not in education, not in politics. It's a huge advantage for them.
The Fed is finncially bombing anyone that isn't the Fed, or their friends.
The Fed has friends?
In the boardrooms and C levels of every bank in New York. The rest of us are just 'the masses.'
there are "bombs" and then they are "Bombz"...we have our fingers in many National pies and yes, people are on the move because of it...Call it an Illuminati "two-for-one"
Most of the people from these places that you mention are willing to risk their own lives crossing barren land or swimming across rivers. Many just drive or fly in. Many of these arrive on work or tourists visas and just never leave. All these people are willing to take on risks and travel here for a piece of that good ol'american pie! You know, that piece sliced off of your piece, stolen from you by the state and redistributed to these folks you're talking about. The pie is moldy and not enough of it to go around at these places where they travel from. Mira Juanito, the American rulers are handing out free chit that they've confiscated from their burros, best go get you some of that free chit while it lasts. It's a dead end here son, our masters aren't giving us chit anymore.
excellent points indeed ! a bunch of numbskulls need to wake up. That is why I mention that Amnericans have become fat, dumb, lazy, spoiled and cowardly , because it si all quite true ! Just look around anmd tell me what you see any where you look ?
Indoctrination that self defense is a hate crime.
Selfish bastards....
China didn't make them homeless in the first place !!
I will take Market Saturation for 1000 Alex
If market saturation=debt saturation, yes.
Nah, death squads work better there.
May I suggest a reading of Joseph Heller's "We bombed In New Haven."
down vote for you. Did you not hear about the americans muzzle thumping the muzzie in the head on the train. The euros probably feel pretty comfortable sitting next to those yanks on the train.
At least our flood of unwanted immigrants know how to make guac and salsa and reasonablly counterfeit tex mex cuisine.
uno mas cerveza, por favor.
Quiero uno mas cerveza, por favar. Gracias.
No hable espanol? Porque?
Pinche su madre gringo.
You mean that zio-theatre just played out on that train in Europe. Do you really believe that crap?
Oh, but he had a boxcutter. Guess it was real, after all.
Those countries were shit long before any white people got involved in the situation. Those countries are shit because the people in them are shit. As in shitskins. Which is why we call them that. They are incapable of building a functioning, thriving, wealthy, peaceful, modern nation. Incapable.
Machine gun the refugees at the borders of Europe. They will stop coming. The massive overpopulation of non-whites is going to solve itself sooner or later anyway thru famine and disease. Better to not have them stinking up Europe with their rotting carcasses when whites can no longer afford to feed, clothe, house, and provide medical care to these housepets from Africa and the Middle East.
I hate American tourists. One was parading around here on the weekend wearing her solid gold watch out in public. God damn that was a nice looking watch. Anyways I made her breakfast for one US dollar and I was nice to her. And then a bunch of American tourists saved France from a terrorist while the French MEN hid in the washroom . You can't make this shit up. Unbelievable.
We've been hearing that since the late '60s from far-right fringe groups.
That said, it would be nice if America were to stop tearing the social fabric of the Middle-East apart, leaving untold numbers of desperate families in the region with no other recourse than to flee for their lives.
It would be nice if our oil and gas didn't have the detritus of 13 centuries of psychotic death cults, consaguinious marriage and tribalism living atop it, but those are the facts out there.
and it would be nice if the idiots in this country who are trying to wean us off of oil/gas/coal were willing to embrace nuclear, but they are insistent that puppy kisses and unicorn farts will power the world.
Humanity has not needed coal, oil, gas, or nuclear energy, or surface roads since well before 1950.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhUzKMjGjvs
Additional testimony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lyXi1efbYrk#t=4028
God was having a bad day when he made Americas oil.
He put it under the wrong countries!
/s
We've been hearing from leftist groups since the late '60s that uncontrolled immigration is just wonderful and that it's racist not to think so.
It would be even nicer if leftist/socialist/communist European pigs on the government dole would quit tearing the social fabric of Europe apart by allowing uncontrolled immigration.
1 to 1.5 standard deviations of human IQ difference should qualify as a separate species.
So you're saying the average ZHer should be considered sub-human? Because there are some dumb ass motherfuckers on here.
Be nice. There are many newcomers, deprogramming takes time, and self-education is hard. That said, it would be nice to have an 'Ignore' feature for the plants, militroids, BTC pushers and other gadflies.
...because being closed off to new ideas and having validation of your own set ways is much more important than reading the freedom of expression.
But you can ignore this. I really do not give a fuck.
I am just here to fight. If I wanted an echo chamber then I will go elsewhere.
I appreciate your usual candor and agree that differences of opinion are exciting and educational, so long as the tone is generally mutually respectful and the shared goal is earnest, critical pursuit of truth. That's not to be confused with immature pissing contests of trolls, spamming by childish attention seekers, high-and-mighty pronouncements by brainwashed ideologues, repetition of authorized narratives, or deliberate organized disruption. Some things should be ignored.
no doubt about that part. ZH has deteriorated to a younger group that think they are the smartest guys in the room , when in fact they don't know their ass form a whole in the ground on many important matters ? Spoiled too long and never had to actually do much thinking to solve a real problem or fight their way out of an actual life and death scenario ? But that explains the entire country does it not ? Little effort and a lot of freebies and help from big brother and the many illusions , like our economy.
You should have been here 5+ years ago. There were some smart mothers posting here. There was little mention of Joo's, no BTC, and I don't remember people thinking in they were clever by repeating mock names for politicians; ie.. Hitlery, Ogolfer, etc... People were smart, and then they left to avoid the idiots.
Or the different bone structures that allow doctors and forensics examiners to determine the "race" (species) of a skeleton in the absence of any flesh, skin, hair, etc.
Or the many physiological and behavioral differences. Among other things.
There are many species of man and anyone who disputes this fact is a brainwashed imbecile.
We can predict disease propensities, physical characteristics and much more from gene analysis, but we will never, ever, be able to determine intelligence or predict behavior from such data. Everyone knows that even monkeys have the exact same intelligence and behavior as humans. Really....every person and creature is created exactly equal in this world and our genetic makeup is meaningless. Really....
Sorta depends on how you define "species" doesn't it? The original definition, I recall, was that if they could breed, they were the same species.
That probably rules out chimpanzees, but nothing north of that.
and even nicer if the Western powers weren't bombing the bejesus out of their homes because "our oil is under their sands."
Saw and continue to see more of it coming out of corporations. I remember the posters on the walls back in the 80's.
All kidding aside, this is the stuff that makes for real violence in the streets. When hundreds of thousands of "good" Muslims (Hahahaha!) arrive from Libya and N. Africa right after their brethren have engaged in another round of bombings and killings, the nice lefties of Europe will not be so eager to hand them so much free stuff, which we know is not really free.
I can even see anti-Greek protests as they are blamed for the meltdown and irresponsible spending-borrowing.
If this goes long it could get really ugly in a dozen different ways. There is no real reserve to handle these things. Governments and people are leveraged to the hilt already and the enviro's still have saving the planet from a one degree rise in temperature in mind.
EML,
so goddam true! which is why janus proudly and volubly advocates for neo-colonialism...this open-border madness must work both ways. so, to these blighted and backwards peoples polluting terra-firma, janus does here-by announce that the light of civilization is about to break back again on all your shores. it is a quantifiable and qualitative certainty that all of these nations and especially their peoples were FAR better off under the auspices of colonialism; and it is furthermore evident that theses savages were not prepared to have the training-wheels removed from their bikes.
i, for one, have my heart set on a tobacco plantation in rhodesia...happiness and bliss are but a puff away for the woe-begotten hordes of southeast africa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ak4vjiNzw
zip-a-dee do-dah,
janus (aka brer rabbit)
good read -
- Memories of Rhodesia
http://www.memoriesofrhodesia.com/pages/newsletter/memorylane/memorylane...
no, great read...thanks, RS.
janus
In a world where most adults and children use smartphones for games, movies, calculator, camera, video camera, banking, all communication and a myriad of other activities, who needs container ships! Apple, Samsung or whatever brand you like, it doesn't matter. These devices have replaced a room full of machines.
I'm not sure what that means.
It means you're an idiot if you don't know what it means.
"If you're like me, you make ice by spraying a hose into the freezer and slamming the door shut! But there's a better way..."
It means peak Tim Cook.
Tim Cook peaked a long time ago. Haven't you seen the old faggot lately? Now he's just a fan of gumming it.
" In a world..." Funny!
I especially like the way that smartphones have replaced coffee, automobiles, cocao, solar panels, grains, lumber, soybeans, textiles, apples, heavy construction machinery, bananas, and all those many other insiginificant items that ship by water vessel.
BTW, does the Android taste better than the iPhone?
Depends on wether you get a frenchman or a morrocan to cook it.
It's all in the sauce.
You got my vote!
I think 'smart' phones have replaced most people's brains.
Never owned one and plan never to own one.
Isn't it hard to be logicalman without a brain?
Titanic proportions.....going to swamp these countries.
They are NOT immigrants. Immigration is an orderly, legalized system. You may, or may not, agree with the system.
These people are INVADERS!
Invaders have no rights. They don't deserve sympathy. They surely don't deserve the fruits of you society. And they damn sure don't deserve a hearing or citizenship conferred to their offspring.
Use you fucking brains people. You don't coddle invaders.
Question; what "immigrant" group would march with a foreign flag?
Are you starting to get it?
You kick over the ant hill and then complain when they relocate to your basement.
The NWO ruling elite mess with the roaches in the sand countries and then as the roaches scatter, they enable them to flee to the bankrupt welfare countries in Europe and the U.S.
You complain, I exterminate.
You got a fucking point to make? Make it.
dont know about him, but i have a point:
fuck all countries, and all governments, and all flag-wavers - they are the source of the problems, not the solutions
whether someone in the ussa is waving an american flag or a mexican flag, they are equally worthless to me
i support the right of all people to go wherever the hell they want.
end the welfare/warfare state and it won't be a problem - no one will come for handouts because there won't be any, and there will be no standing army to wreck other peoples' homes and make refugees.
In theory, I agree. You work, you eat. You don't, starve. That being said, you have to have property rights, or what's the incentive to build something better?
And property rights goes to the level of the state. What's the point of building a society, to have it invaded and spoiled?
Stacking 12321, so, do you live on a sailboat, plying the open ocean? A man without a country, eh? With a satellite uplink, so you can read and post to ZeroHedge.
Or do you own a house, and take in all strangers who wander by?
Hmmm?
Or, are you a free spirit, living in your momma' s basement? All idealized, and such. So unfair, the big world.
Your dimwit view of humanity is nieve and suicidal. And, left to your own devices, you will end up dead. People organize in like minded groups, with others who think and look like them. Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it doesn't. No law is going to MAKE me like someone I am inclined to not want to associate with.
The USA is a mostly white, Christian society. That's why it has worked. We have a ( or had) a culture of can do, help yourself, that made us what we are. And might makes right, always has, always will. I know which side I want to be on. 70 years or so, and out. I consider myself lucky. And I don't want to see it ruined by barbarians.
The USA is a mostly white, Christian society. That's why it has worked. We have a ( or had) a culture of can do, help yourself, that made us what we are. And might makes right, always has, always will.
Lol you are well indoctrinated. I bet even a lot of DPRK folk aren't as deluded as this.
Cole, pack it up your ass you feckin idiot.
White people built this country. Better or worse.
And they where Christian.
You might not like it, but that's that.
Take your " indoctrinated " and shove it up your ass. Sideways. Got it?
Take your " indoctrinated " and shove it up your ass. Sideways. Got it?
OMG i didn't realize you had such persuasive facts on your side.
You remind me of people from mainland china i occasionally come across, say anything that runs counter to the official propaganda and their heads explode.
You're lying!! LA LA LA LA can't hear you! All lies!
Eyes. You got a pair? At least one that works?
Son of bitch, where do you fucking idiots hatch from?
I'm a glutton for abuse, I suppose;
So, Mr.Cole, in your words, who built the USA?
Get ready folks, I teed it up. Let's see if he hits it.
So, Mr.Cole, in your words, who built the USA?
A bunch of immigrants.
:)
NoPension vs James_Cole.
On this point, Cole has it.
The essence of Christiandom may well be alturism and what moon shot America was the pursuit of happiness, not Christianity.
(...although, No Pension is spot on with respect to property rights.)
Mr Cole doesn't have it...Not quite...
"So, Mr.Cole, in your words, who built the USA?
"A bunch of immigrants"
From Somalia?
From Mexico?
From China?
...or were they from England and Europe...from the laterally organized Protestant faiths of Christendom?
Cole...do you really want to put your Faith in these modern unassimilated hordes from the 3rd world to keep the torch of Liberty lit?
This aint Ellis Island....this is Tower of Babble
On this point it demonstrated the absolute dishonesty of "Meat Puppet" Cole.
It was an absolute disingenuous response.
They were basically immigrants FROM CENTRAL EUROPE and ENGLAND...Germanic and English...with a Catholic and Protestant "Christian" Faith.
In fact the legal language of the USA between German or English being adopted was decided by ONE VOTE.
We sure in the hell do not use Iriquoi, Navajo, Cherokee, Sioux or Apache as our legal language, do we?
And as for you...YOU ARE ALSO AS DISINGENUOUS for supporting that type of dishonest response.
On this point it demonstrated the absolute dishonesty of "Meat Puppet" Cole.
It was an absolute disingenuous response.
It was actually a very accurate response. Your response is disingenuous (and inaccurate).
Demonstration of the "inaccuracy"?
(I can use a good laugh...)
Excellent.
No, really. No sarcasm, that is a great answer, imo.
And for the record, I have no problem with immigration.
Buddy has young child. ( my grandson, btw!)
Enrolled him in school. Required;
A) birth certificate
B) proof of residence. A power bill in his wife's name, no good. Had to be a tax bill, with both names.
C) a complete record of vaccinations and inoculations , from birth.
D) a comprehensive list of next of kin.
How many of our new " immigrants" are put to this test, and how are the schools overwhelmed by these " dreamers"?
Just one example.
They are invaders.
Pretty sure I've never suggested I think an 'anything goes' immigration policy is the right path. To my mind, citizenship should be thought of as a privilege rather than a right. I would imagine most people think along those lines.
But the idea that there is a silver bullet solution to illegal immigration problems in the US as trump and others suggest is nonsense.
the solution is EASY.
No entitlements to non-citizens.
"Drop-a-Dime" laws for employers of illegal labor. Give citizens whistle-blower $tatus with regard to shops employing illegals...
PAY THEM TO DROP THAT DIME.
I will be on the horn collecting as much as I can...as a percentage of the proceeds of the sale of that company, or PERSONAL PROPERTY. and ALL OF THE ASSETS.
Make it as onerous as Civil Forfeiture.
If you are caught hiring illegals...for anything...whether it be the gardener or the maid...YOU LOSE EVERYTHING THAT YOU OWN...EVERYTHING.
That will stop it dead in its tracks.
But the wealthy will not have that...
Grandson! Godson it was meant.
nopension:
as far as your pissing contest, here's the thing about a pissing contest on the internet, its like the special olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded.
but, to reply to your actual point: yes, absolutely, i believe in property rights 100%. however, there is no reason the government should be the guarantor of property rights.
people can band together for common defense, hire security forces, etc. and it can be done freely and voluntarily. there is no reason at all that government must provide this "service" and force people to pay for it. i'd rather hire security forces that have my interests in mind, instead of following dictates from some government bureaucrat
rights do not come FROM the government, they are what we innately have. that's why they are called "inalienable rights".
and organized in like minded groups is great - not sure why you are implying that i'm against that, or that i think you should be forced to associate with immigrants or anything like that, i never said anything like that, so dont put words in my mouth.
You say "Who built the USA?"
I say, "Who trashed North America?"
It's all about perspective. Just because you see all this as the best thing ever, doesn't mean everyone does. To me, it's just a big prison.
I'd rather be free.
Andy Grove was a Christian? News to me.
"In theory, I agree. You work, you eat. You don't, starve." Seems like both political parties have worked diligently to make sure American workers starve .... let the corporations take jobs overseas and feed the citizenry shit food that is almost cheaper to buy ready made than to buy it grocery store
too true
...but at the moment there is the pesky fact that murderous gangs are on the rampage in some parts of the world and even intellegent folks with productive lives are fleeing for their very survivial...
...otherwise yes, the magnet of welfare distorts the usefullness of immigration...
When the welfare system of the USA collapses it will be interesting to see how feet are voting then. I suspect we will still attract people as the nepotism, monopolies and corruption of Mexico and most other points South of our borders are facts ingrained by ages of experience.
Yes, even without welfare, the USA will still attract immigrants. It is a multi-faceted issue.
yep. A drive by a Home Depot or Lowes at 4:30 AM in Phoenix will show you the truth about our construction companies and how 'against' illegal immigration they are. But those who use the companies still charge the same as if Americans were doing the work... the 'power' of day labor
Go to the source: nafta, agribiz, drug war etc.. fix those and the rest will follow.
People ain't illegally migrating en masse from north of the border. You can try and deport everyone individually / build giant ass wall (good luck on those) or simply stop fucking around in other peoples countires and hence low incentive to leave.
Talk to upper class mexicans in mexico and you will hear the same thing over and over, drug war is killing their country. Not to mention honduras or BFF colombia.
More importantly, why arent the Mexicans doing something to solve their own problems.
It is a shithole of a country and govt, thats why.
It is a shithole of a country and govt, thats why.
A shithole gov backed 100% by the US. Protest the US government in the US and maybe you get beat up and peppersprayed, protest the mexican government in mexico too much and your head will probably be separated from your body. Especially in certain geo regions.
Mexico is not a democracy, travel around northern mexico and it becomes quickly apparent. If the US didn't control key aspects of mexican domestic policy they could sort the shit out themselves.
NO, that is entirely wrong, we are the shithole here, they want us to stop sending guns across the border, and don't tell me mexicans know how to make guns or they were just going to get them from somewhere else, been there, tried that.